<mediawiki xmlns="http://www.mediawiki.org/xml/export-0.10/" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xsi:schemaLocation="http://www.mediawiki.org/xml/export-0.10/ http://www.mediawiki.org/xml/export-0.10.xsd" version="0.10" xml:lang="en">
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    <sitename>NetHackWiki</sitename>
    <dbname>wikihackdb</dbname>
    <base>https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Main_Page</base>
    <generator>MediaWiki 1.32.5</generator>
    <case>first-letter</case>
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      <namespace key="1" case="first-letter">Talk</namespace>
      <namespace key="2" case="first-letter">User</namespace>
      <namespace key="3" case="first-letter">User talk</namespace>
      <namespace key="4" case="first-letter">NetHackWiki</namespace>
      <namespace key="5" case="first-letter">NetHackWiki talk</namespace>
      <namespace key="6" case="first-letter">File</namespace>
      <namespace key="7" case="first-letter">File talk</namespace>
      <namespace key="8" case="first-letter">MediaWiki</namespace>
      <namespace key="9" case="first-letter">MediaWiki talk</namespace>
      <namespace key="10" case="first-letter">Template</namespace>
      <namespace key="11" case="first-letter">Template talk</namespace>
      <namespace key="12" case="first-letter">Help</namespace>
      <namespace key="13" case="first-letter">Help talk</namespace>
      <namespace key="14" case="first-letter">Category</namespace>
      <namespace key="15" case="first-letter">Category talk</namespace>
      <namespace key="100" case="first-letter">Source</namespace>
      <namespace key="101" case="first-letter">Source talk</namespace>
      <namespace key="110" case="first-letter">Forum</namespace>
      <namespace key="111" case="first-letter">Forum talk</namespace>
      <namespace key="400" case="first-letter">Video</namespace>
      <namespace key="401" case="first-letter">Video talk</namespace>
      <namespace key="500" case="first-letter">User blog</namespace>
      <namespace key="501" case="first-letter">User blog talk</namespace>
      <namespace key="502" case="first-letter">Blog</namespace>
      <namespace key="503" case="first-letter">Blog talk</namespace>
      <namespace key="828" case="first-letter">Module</namespace>
      <namespace key="829" case="first-letter">Module talk</namespace>
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  </siteinfo>
  <page>
    <title>File:Wiki.png</title>
    <ns>6</ns>
    <id>1</id>
    <revision>
      <id>168</id>
      <parentid>56507</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-10-10T23:16:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jasonr</username>
        <id>394</id>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="0" />
      <sha1>phoiac9h4m842xq45sp7s6u21eteeq1</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56507</id>
      <timestamp>2005-08-15T03:59:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Bdk</username>
        <id>0</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>infos added</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="201">'''MediaWiki logo''' by [[:fr:User:Anthere|Anthere]] (flower) and [[:en:User:Eloquence|Eloquence]] (combination, concept).  
*The flower is [[commons:Image:Tournesol.png|Image:Tournesol.png]].
{{GFDL}}</text>
      <sha1>3i28z5s3kodj82x0c9j0sar12q41hf3</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56508</id>
      <parentid>168</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-13T20:25:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>1 revision: Import mediawiki help files</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="0" />
      <sha1>phoiac9h4m842xq45sp7s6u21eteeq1</sha1>
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    <revision>
      <id>74623</id>
      <parentid>56508</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-11-04T22:30:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>99.239.146.253</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>cat</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="29">[[Category:Talk page images]]</text>
      <sha1>tgk7ugwranss1qtoyh477bl9eq7xgsb</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>File:Favicon.ico</title>
    <ns>6</ns>
    <id>2</id>
    <revision>
      <id>169</id>
      <timestamp>2005-10-10T23:16:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jasonr</username>
        <id>394</id>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="0" />
      <sha1>phoiac9h4m842xq45sp7s6u21eteeq1</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>4909</id>
      <parentid>169</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-14T10:38:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>details</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="200">This [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Favicon favicon] shows a {{white|@}} from NetHack. There are many white @'s in NetHack; exactly which one this is shall forever remain a mystery.

(It's a [[page]]).</text>
      <sha1>2p6nu0lzq03awkj5a6zrw4wdd840jmk</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53605</id>
      <parentid>4909</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-09T17:03:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>uploaded &amp;quot;[[File:Favicon.ico]]&amp;quot;</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="200">This [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Favicon favicon] shows a {{white|@}} from NetHack. There are many white @'s in NetHack; exactly which one this is shall forever remain a mystery.

(It's a [[page]]).</text>
      <sha1>2p6nu0lzq03awkj5a6zrw4wdd840jmk</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>74632</id>
      <parentid>53605</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-11-05T00:38:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>99.239.146.253</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>cat</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="232">This [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Favicon favicon] shows a {{white|@}} from NetHack. There are many white @'s in NetHack; exactly which one this is shall forever remain a mystery.

(It's a [[page]]).
[[Category:NetHackWiki images]]</text>
      <sha1>d6kltduufhxby69bluomovt0yenh6xn</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>File:Search logo.png</title>
    <ns>6</ns>
    <id>3</id>
    <revision>
      <id>170</id>
      <timestamp>2005-10-10T23:16:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jasonr</username>
        <id>394</id>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="0" />
      <sha1>phoiac9h4m842xq45sp7s6u21eteeq1</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Main Page</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>4</id>
    <revision>
      <id>6</id>
      <timestamp>2005-10-11T00:57:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Sgeo</username>
        <id>729</id>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="89">Not much here at the moment.
==Categories==
[[:Category:Spoilers]]
[[:Category:Websites]]</text>
      <sha1>58j5wg6rz6yvsbbezz2msco6xkdd7d2</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9</id>
      <parentid>6</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-10-13T20:41:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>64.89.171.55</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Categories */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="138">Not much here at the moment.
==Categories==
[[:Category:Guidebook]]
[[:Category:Strategies]]
[[:Category:Spoilers]]
[[:Category:Websites]]</text>
      <sha1>s2lo0rm7v46nnqa7qb3ykg07tx7c726</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>13</id>
      <parentid>9</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-10-14T07:35:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>131.111.8.98</ip>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="163">Not much here at the moment.

[[Amazing Ascensions]]

==Categories==
[[:Category:Guidebook]]
[[:Category:Strategies]]
[[:Category:Spoilers]]
[[:Category:Websites]]</text>
      <sha1>syxwtshyaf34c86koojqa4wpytr7x2t</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>21</id>
      <parentid>13</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-10-14T13:56:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>seeded</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="2237">Not much here at the moment. Wikis need seeding before they can grow. This page is currently being seeded!

==Introduction==

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NetHack What is Nethack?] - Wikipedia article.

This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.

==Article seeds==

The following list is a smattering of what is possible for the wiki. Please write unwritten articles! The list is only very roughly organised. Exactly what organization is best can be decided later.

===Some general articles===

These articles will probably be 'portals' to other, more detailed articles. Sub-bulletpoints mark more specific articles. Again, it's a wiki, so nothing is concrete!

* [[Classes]]
** [[Archeologist]]
** [[Caveman]]
** etc.
* [[Objects]]
** [[Artifacts]]
*** [[Eyes of the Overworld]]
*** [[Grayswandir]]
** [[Weapons]]
*** [[Long sword]]
*** [[Poleaxes]]
** [[Armor]]
** [[Potions]]
** [[Scrolls]]
** [[Wands]]
** [[Rings]]
** [[Spellbooks]]
** [[Gems]]
** [[Tools]]
** [[Statues]]
** [[Boulders]]
* [[Dungeon]]
** [[Sokoban]]
** [[Gehennom]]
** [[Gnomish Mines]]
** [[Vlad's Tower]]
** [[Elemental planes]]
** [[Special levels]]
** [[The quest]]
** [[Dungeon features]]
*** [[Staircases]]
*** [[Traps]]
*** [[Ice]]
*** [[Water]]
** [[Dungeon furniture]]
*** [[Sinks]]
*** [[Altars]]
*** [[Fountains]]
* [[Monsters]]
** [[Soldier ant]]
** [[Cockatrice]]
** [[Wumpus]]
** [[Newt]]
** [[Unique monsters]]
*** [[Croesus]]
* [[Religion]]
** [[Praying]]
** [[Sacrificing]]
* [[Attributes]]
** [[Carrying capacity]]
** [[Intrinsics]]


* [[Game history]]
* [[Conducts]]
* [[Cheating]]


===Analysis===

* [[Ascension guides]]
* [[Amazing Ascensions]]
* [[Extinctionism]]
* [[Surviving forever]]
* [[Game phases]]
* [[Strategy]]
** [[What to wish for]]
** [[Protection racket]]
* [[Tactics]]

===Third party/community creations===

* [[Next version pool]]
* [[Hearse]]
* [[Patches]]
** [[Photography patch]]
** [[Color alchemy patch]]
** [[Menucolors patch]]
* [[Similar games]]
** [[Rogue]]
** [[Angband]]
** [[Dungeon Crawl]]
* [[Nethack derivatives]]
** [[Patchhack]]

===Categories===
* [[:Category:Guidebook]]
* [[:Category:Strategies]]
* [[:Category:Spoilers]]
* [[:Category:Websites]]</text>
      <sha1>f81ptslu4krmsdbvqgah7i6n502343e</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>22</id>
      <parentid>21</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-10-17T10:46:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>84.163.156.66</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Some general articles */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="2994">Not much here at the moment. Wikis need seeding before they can grow. This page is currently being seeded!

==Introduction==

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NetHack What is Nethack?] - Wikipedia article.

This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.

==Article seeds==

The following list is a smattering of what is possible for the wiki. Please write unwritten articles! The list is only very roughly organised. Exactly what organization is best can be decided later.

===Some general articles===

These articles will probably be 'portals' to other, more detailed articles. Sub-bulletpoints mark more specific articles. Again, it's a wiki, so nothing is concrete!

* [[Classes]]
** [[Archaeologist]]
** [[Barbarian]]
** [[Caveman]]
** [[Healer]]
** [[Knight]]
** [[Priest]]
** [[Monk]]
** [[Ranger]]
** [[Rogue]]
** [[Samurai]]
** [[Tourist]]
** [[Valkyrie]]
** [[Wizard]]
* [[Objects]]
** [[Artifacts]]
*** [[Weapons]]
**** [[Cleaver]]
**** [[Demonbane]]
**** [[Dragonslayer]]
**** [[Excalibur]]
**** [[Fire Brand]]
**** [[Frost Brand]]
**** [[Giantslayer]]
**** [[Grayswandir]]
**** [[Grimtooth]]
**** [[Magicbane]]
**** [[Mjollnir]]
**** [[Ogresmasher]]
**** [[Orcrist]]
**** [[Sceptre of Might]]
**** [[Snickersnee]]
**** [[Staff of Aesculapius]]
**** [[Sting]]
**** [[Stormbringer]]
**** [[Sunsword]]
**** [[Trollsbane]]
**** [[Tsurugi of Muramasa]]
**** [[Vorpal Blade]]
**** [[Werebane]]
*** [[Other]]
**** [[Eyes of the Overworld]]
** [[Weapons]]
*** [[Long sword]]
*** [[Poleaxes]]
** [[Armor]]
** [[Potions]]
** [[Scrolls]]
*** [[Labels]]
**** [[XIXAXA XOXAXA XUXAXA]]
*** [[Names]]
**** [[Blindness]
** [[Wands]]
** [[Rings]]
** [[Spellbooks]]
** [[Gems]]
** [[Tools]]
** [[Statues]]
** [[Boulders]]
* [[Dungeon]]
** [[Sokoban]]
** [[Gehennom]]
** [[Gnomish Mines]]
** [[Vlad's Tower]]
** [[Elemental planes]]
** [[Special levels]]
** [[The quest]]
** [[Dungeon features]]
*** [[Staircases]]
*** [[Traps]]
*** [[Ice]]
*** [[Water]]
** [[Dungeon furniture]]
*** [[Sinks]]
*** [[Altars]]
*** [[Fountains]]
* [[Monsters]]
** [[Soldier ant]]
** [[Cockatrice]]
** [[Wumpus]]
** [[Newt]]
** [[Ravenous Bugblatter Beast from Traal]]
** [[Unique monsters]]
*** [[Croesus]]
* [[Religion]]
** [[Praying]]
** [[Sacrificing]]
* [[Attributes]]
** [[Carrying capacity]]
** [[Intrinsics]]


* [[Game history]]
* [[Conducts]]
* [[Cheating]]

===Analysis===

* [[Ascension guides]]
* [[Amazing Ascensions]]
* [[Extinctionism]]
* [[Surviving forever]]
* [[Game phases]]
* [[Strategy]]
** [[What to wish for]]
** [[Protection racket]]
* [[Tactics]]

===Third party/community creations===

* [[Next version pool]]
* [[Hearse]]
* [[Patches]]
** [[Photography patch]]
** [[Color alchemy patch]]
** [[Menucolors patch]]
* [[Similar games]]
** [[Rogue]]
** [[Angband]]
** [[Dungeon Crawl]]
* [[Nethack derivatives]]
** [[Patchhack]]

===Categories===
* [[:Category:Guidebook]]
* [[:Category:Strategies]]
* [[:Category:Spoilers]]
* [[:Category:Websites]]</text>
      <sha1>dhffqv78pqjmf1ly1sueff9i2it5fl2</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>31</id>
      <parentid>22</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-10-17T10:47:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>84.163.156.66</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Some general articles */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="2995">Not much here at the moment. Wikis need seeding before they can grow. This page is currently being seeded!

==Introduction==

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NetHack What is Nethack?] - Wikipedia article.

This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.

==Article seeds==

The following list is a smattering of what is possible for the wiki. Please write unwritten articles! The list is only very roughly organised. Exactly what organization is best can be decided later.

===Some general articles===

These articles will probably be 'portals' to other, more detailed articles. Sub-bulletpoints mark more specific articles. Again, it's a wiki, so nothing is concrete!

* [[Classes]]
** [[Archaeologist]]
** [[Barbarian]]
** [[Caveman]]
** [[Healer]]
** [[Knight]]
** [[Priest]]
** [[Monk]]
** [[Ranger]]
** [[Rogue]]
** [[Samurai]]
** [[Tourist]]
** [[Valkyrie]]
** [[Wizard]]
* [[Objects]]
** [[Artifacts]]
*** [[Weapons]]
**** [[Cleaver]]
**** [[Demonbane]]
**** [[Dragonslayer]]
**** [[Excalibur]]
**** [[Fire Brand]]
**** [[Frost Brand]]
**** [[Giantslayer]]
**** [[Grayswandir]]
**** [[Grimtooth]]
**** [[Magicbane]]
**** [[Mjollnir]]
**** [[Ogresmasher]]
**** [[Orcrist]]
**** [[Sceptre of Might]]
**** [[Snickersnee]]
**** [[Staff of Aesculapius]]
**** [[Sting]]
**** [[Stormbringer]]
**** [[Sunsword]]
**** [[Trollsbane]]
**** [[Tsurugi of Muramasa]]
**** [[Vorpal Blade]]
**** [[Werebane]]
*** [[Other]]
**** [[Eyes of the Overworld]]
** [[Weapons]]
*** [[Long sword]]
*** [[Poleaxes]]
** [[Armor]]
** [[Potions]]
** [[Scrolls]]
*** [[Labels]]
**** [[XIXAXA XOXAXA XUXAXA]]
*** [[Names]]
**** [[Blindness]]
** [[Wands]]
** [[Rings]]
** [[Spellbooks]]
** [[Gems]]
** [[Tools]]
** [[Statues]]
** [[Boulders]]
* [[Dungeon]]
** [[Sokoban]]
** [[Gehennom]]
** [[Gnomish Mines]]
** [[Vlad's Tower]]
** [[Elemental planes]]
** [[Special levels]]
** [[The quest]]
** [[Dungeon features]]
*** [[Staircases]]
*** [[Traps]]
*** [[Ice]]
*** [[Water]]
** [[Dungeon furniture]]
*** [[Sinks]]
*** [[Altars]]
*** [[Fountains]]
* [[Monsters]]
** [[Soldier ant]]
** [[Cockatrice]]
** [[Wumpus]]
** [[Newt]]
** [[Ravenous Bugblatter Beast from Traal]]
** [[Unique monsters]]
*** [[Croesus]]
* [[Religion]]
** [[Praying]]
** [[Sacrificing]]
* [[Attributes]]
** [[Carrying capacity]]
** [[Intrinsics]]


* [[Game history]]
* [[Conducts]]
* [[Cheating]]

===Analysis===

* [[Ascension guides]]
* [[Amazing Ascensions]]
* [[Extinctionism]]
* [[Surviving forever]]
* [[Game phases]]
* [[Strategy]]
** [[What to wish for]]
** [[Protection racket]]
* [[Tactics]]

===Third party/community creations===

* [[Next version pool]]
* [[Hearse]]
* [[Patches]]
** [[Photography patch]]
** [[Color alchemy patch]]
** [[Menucolors patch]]
* [[Similar games]]
** [[Rogue]]
** [[Angband]]
** [[Dungeon Crawl]]
* [[Nethack derivatives]]
** [[Patchhack]]

===Categories===
* [[:Category:Guidebook]]
* [[:Category:Strategies]]
* [[:Category:Spoilers]]
* [[:Category:Websites]]</text>
      <sha1>oglfx0bbj2ayznxi5g3w70c6z9sn5g3</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>37</id>
      <parentid>31</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-10-28T05:05:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>207.225.166.13</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Analysis */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3009">Not much here at the moment. Wikis need seeding before they can grow. This page is currently being seeded!

==Introduction==

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NetHack What is Nethack?] - Wikipedia article.

This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.

==Article seeds==

The following list is a smattering of what is possible for the wiki. Please write unwritten articles! The list is only very roughly organised. Exactly what organization is best can be decided later.

===Some general articles===

These articles will probably be 'portals' to other, more detailed articles. Sub-bulletpoints mark more specific articles. Again, it's a wiki, so nothing is concrete!

* [[Classes]]
** [[Archaeologist]]
** [[Barbarian]]
** [[Caveman]]
** [[Healer]]
** [[Knight]]
** [[Priest]]
** [[Monk]]
** [[Ranger]]
** [[Rogue]]
** [[Samurai]]
** [[Tourist]]
** [[Valkyrie]]
** [[Wizard]]
* [[Objects]]
** [[Artifacts]]
*** [[Weapons]]
**** [[Cleaver]]
**** [[Demonbane]]
**** [[Dragonslayer]]
**** [[Excalibur]]
**** [[Fire Brand]]
**** [[Frost Brand]]
**** [[Giantslayer]]
**** [[Grayswandir]]
**** [[Grimtooth]]
**** [[Magicbane]]
**** [[Mjollnir]]
**** [[Ogresmasher]]
**** [[Orcrist]]
**** [[Sceptre of Might]]
**** [[Snickersnee]]
**** [[Staff of Aesculapius]]
**** [[Sting]]
**** [[Stormbringer]]
**** [[Sunsword]]
**** [[Trollsbane]]
**** [[Tsurugi of Muramasa]]
**** [[Vorpal Blade]]
**** [[Werebane]]
*** [[Other]]
**** [[Eyes of the Overworld]]
** [[Weapons]]
*** [[Long sword]]
*** [[Poleaxes]]
** [[Armor]]
** [[Potions]]
** [[Scrolls]]
*** [[Labels]]
**** [[XIXAXA XOXAXA XUXAXA]]
*** [[Names]]
**** [[Blindness]]
** [[Wands]]
** [[Rings]]
** [[Spellbooks]]
** [[Gems]]
** [[Tools]]
** [[Statues]]
** [[Boulders]]
* [[Dungeon]]
** [[Sokoban]]
** [[Gehennom]]
** [[Gnomish Mines]]
** [[Vlad's Tower]]
** [[Elemental planes]]
** [[Special levels]]
** [[The quest]]
** [[Dungeon features]]
*** [[Staircases]]
*** [[Traps]]
*** [[Ice]]
*** [[Water]]
** [[Dungeon furniture]]
*** [[Sinks]]
*** [[Altars]]
*** [[Fountains]]
* [[Monsters]]
** [[Soldier ant]]
** [[Cockatrice]]
** [[Wumpus]]
** [[Newt]]
** [[Ravenous Bugblatter Beast from Traal]]
** [[Unique monsters]]
*** [[Croesus]]
* [[Religion]]
** [[Praying]]
** [[Sacrificing]]
* [[Attributes]]
** [[Carrying capacity]]
** [[Intrinsics]]


* [[Game history]]
* [[Conducts]]
* [[Cheating]]

===Analysis===

* [[Ascension guides]]
* [[Amazing Ascensions]]
* [[Scoring]]
* [[Extinctionism]]
* [[Surviving forever]]
* [[Game phases]]
* [[Strategy]]
** [[What to wish for]]
** [[Protection racket]]
* [[Tactics]]

===Third party/community creations===

* [[Next version pool]]
* [[Hearse]]
* [[Patches]]
** [[Photography patch]]
** [[Color alchemy patch]]
** [[Menucolors patch]]
* [[Similar games]]
** [[Rogue]]
** [[Angband]]
** [[Dungeon Crawl]]
* [[Nethack derivatives]]
** [[Patchhack]]

===Categories===
* [[:Category:Guidebook]]
* [[:Category:Strategies]]
* [[:Category:Spoilers]]
* [[:Category:Websites]]</text>
      <sha1>kbzkiufa538ngf9spcghhd3jz12f1r6</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>45</id>
      <parentid>37</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-12-09T19:12:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Some general articles */ make some proposed articles singular, not plural</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="2992">Not much here at the moment. Wikis need seeding before they can grow. This page is currently being seeded!

==Introduction==

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NetHack What is Nethack?] - Wikipedia article.

This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.

==Article seeds==

The following list is a smattering of what is possible for the wiki. Please write unwritten articles! The list is only very roughly organised. Exactly what organization is best can be decided later.

===Some general articles===

These articles will probably be 'portals' to other, more detailed articles. Sub-bulletpoints mark more specific articles. Again, it's a wiki, so nothing is concrete!

* [[Class]]
** [[Archaeologist]]
** [[Barbarian]]
** [[Caveman]]
** [[Healer]]
** [[Knight]]
** [[Priest]]
** [[Monk]]
** [[Ranger]]
** [[Rogue]]
** [[Samurai]]
** [[Tourist]]
** [[Valkyrie]]
** [[Wizard]]
* [[Object]]
** [[Artifact]]
*** [[Artifact weapon]]
**** [[Cleaver]]
**** [[Demonbane]]
**** [[Dragonslayer]]
**** [[Excalibur]]
**** [[Fire Brand]]
**** [[Frost Brand]]
**** [[Giantslayer]]
**** [[Grayswandir]]
**** [[Grimtooth]]
**** [[Magicbane]]
**** [[Mjollnir]]
**** [[Ogresmasher]]
**** [[Orcrist]]
**** [[Sceptre of Might]]
**** [[Snickersnee]]
**** [[Staff of Aesculapius]]
**** [[Sting]]
**** [[Stormbringer]]
**** [[Sunsword]]
**** [[Trollsbane]]
**** [[Tsurugi of Muramasa]]
**** [[Vorpal Blade]]
**** [[Werebane]]
*** [[Other]]
**** [[Eyes of the Overworld]]
** [[Weapon]]
*** [[Long sword]]
*** [[Poleaxes]]
** [[Armor]]
** [[Potion]]
** [[Scroll]]
*** [[Label]]
**** [[XIXAXA XOXAXA XUXAXA]]
*** [[Scroll of blindness]]
** [[Wand]]
** [[Ring]]
** [[Spellbook]]
** [[Gem]]
** [[Tool]]
** [[Statue]]
** [[Boulder]]
* [[Dungeon]]
** [[Sokoban]]
** [[Gehennom]]
** [[Gnomish Mines]]
** [[Vlad's Tower]]
** [[Elemental planes]]
** [[Special levels]]
** [[The quest]]
** [[Dungeon features]]
*** [[Staircases]]
*** [[Traps]]
*** [[Ice]]
*** [[Water]]
** [[Dungeon furniture]]
*** [[Sinks]]
*** [[Altars]]
*** [[Fountains]]
* [[Monster]]
** [[Soldier ant]]
** [[Cockatrice]]
** [[Wumpus]]
** [[Newt]]
** [[Ravenous Bugblatter Beast from Traal]]
** [[Unique monster]]
*** [[Croesus]]
* [[Religion]]
** [[Praying]]
** [[Sacrificing]]
* [[Attributes]]
** [[Carrying capacity]]
** [[Intrinsics]]
* [[Game history]]
* [[Conduct]]
* [[Cheating]]

===Analysis===

* [[Ascension guides]]
* [[Amazing Ascensions]]
* [[Scoring]]
* [[Extinctionism]]
* [[Surviving forever]]
* [[Game phases]]
* [[Strategy]]
** [[What to wish for]]
** [[Protection racket]]
* [[Tactics]]

===Third party/community creations===

* [[Next version pool]]
* [[Hearse]]
* [[Patches]]
** [[Photography patch]]
** [[Color alchemy patch]]
** [[Menucolors patch]]
* [[Similar games]]
** [[Rogue]]
** [[Angband]]
** [[Dungeon Crawl]]
* [[Nethack derivatives]]
** [[Patchhack]]

===Categories===
* [[:Category:Guidebook]]
* [[:Category:Strategies]]
* [[:Category:Spoilers]]
* [[:Category:Websites]]</text>
      <sha1>l9g2s3z9l66ikoju07qnjvmabzt8ryx</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>49</id>
      <parentid>45</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-12-10T01:02:12Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Analysis */ unlink [[Ascension guides]], [[Amazing Ascensions]]; link [[Ascension]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="2960">Not much here at the moment. Wikis need seeding before they can grow. This page is currently being seeded!

==Introduction==

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NetHack What is Nethack?] - Wikipedia article.

This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.

==Article seeds==

The following list is a smattering of what is possible for the wiki. Please write unwritten articles! The list is only very roughly organised. Exactly what organization is best can be decided later.

===Some general articles===

These articles will probably be 'portals' to other, more detailed articles. Sub-bulletpoints mark more specific articles. Again, it's a wiki, so nothing is concrete!

* [[Class]]
** [[Archaeologist]]
** [[Barbarian]]
** [[Caveman]]
** [[Healer]]
** [[Knight]]
** [[Priest]]
** [[Monk]]
** [[Ranger]]
** [[Rogue]]
** [[Samurai]]
** [[Tourist]]
** [[Valkyrie]]
** [[Wizard]]
* [[Object]]
** [[Artifact]]
*** [[Artifact weapon]]
**** [[Cleaver]]
**** [[Demonbane]]
**** [[Dragonslayer]]
**** [[Excalibur]]
**** [[Fire Brand]]
**** [[Frost Brand]]
**** [[Giantslayer]]
**** [[Grayswandir]]
**** [[Grimtooth]]
**** [[Magicbane]]
**** [[Mjollnir]]
**** [[Ogresmasher]]
**** [[Orcrist]]
**** [[Sceptre of Might]]
**** [[Snickersnee]]
**** [[Staff of Aesculapius]]
**** [[Sting]]
**** [[Stormbringer]]
**** [[Sunsword]]
**** [[Trollsbane]]
**** [[Tsurugi of Muramasa]]
**** [[Vorpal Blade]]
**** [[Werebane]]
*** [[Other]]
**** [[Eyes of the Overworld]]
** [[Weapon]]
*** [[Long sword]]
*** [[Poleaxes]]
** [[Armor]]
** [[Potion]]
** [[Scroll]]
*** [[Label]]
**** [[XIXAXA XOXAXA XUXAXA]]
*** [[Scroll of blindness]]
** [[Wand]]
** [[Ring]]
** [[Spellbook]]
** [[Gem]]
** [[Tool]]
** [[Statue]]
** [[Boulder]]
* [[Dungeon]]
** [[Sokoban]]
** [[Gehennom]]
** [[Gnomish Mines]]
** [[Vlad's Tower]]
** [[Elemental planes]]
** [[Special levels]]
** [[The quest]]
** [[Dungeon features]]
*** [[Staircases]]
*** [[Traps]]
*** [[Ice]]
*** [[Water]]
** [[Dungeon furniture]]
*** [[Sinks]]
*** [[Altars]]
*** [[Fountains]]
* [[Monster]]
** [[Soldier ant]]
** [[Cockatrice]]
** [[Wumpus]]
** [[Newt]]
** [[Ravenous Bugblatter Beast from Traal]]
** [[Unique monster]]
*** [[Croesus]]
* [[Religion]]
** [[Praying]]
** [[Sacrificing]]
* [[Attributes]]
** [[Carrying capacity]]
** [[Intrinsics]]
* [[Game history]]
* [[Conduct]]
* [[Cheating]]

===Analysis===

* [[Ascension]]
* [[Scoring]]
* [[Extinctionism]]
* [[Surviving forever]]
* [[Game phases]]
* [[Strategy]]
** [[What to wish for]]
** [[Protection racket]]
* [[Tactics]]

===Third party/community creations===

* [[Next version pool]]
* [[Hearse]]
* [[Patches]]
** [[Photography patch]]
** [[Color alchemy patch]]
** [[Menucolors patch]]
* [[Similar games]]
** [[Rogue]]
** [[Angband]]
** [[Dungeon Crawl]]
* [[Nethack derivatives]]
** [[Patchhack]]

===Categories===
* [[:Category:Guidebook]]
* [[:Category:Strategies]]
* [[:Category:Spoilers]]
* [[:Category:Websites]]</text>
      <sha1>qxqwc5op8y27zxnptf17w1ujg099gck</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56</id>
      <parentid>49</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-12-10T01:26:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>plural to singular link</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="2953">Not much here at the moment. Wikis need seeding before they can grow. This page is currently being seeded!

==Introduction==

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NetHack What is Nethack?] - Wikipedia article.

This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.

==Article seeds==

The following list is a smattering of what is possible for the wiki. Please write unwritten articles! The list is only very roughly organised. Exactly what organization is best can be decided later.

===Some general articles===

These articles will probably be 'portals' to other, more detailed articles. Sub-bulletpoints mark more specific articles. Again, it's a wiki, so nothing is concrete!

* [[Class]]
** [[Archaeologist]]
** [[Barbarian]]
** [[Caveman]]
** [[Healer]]
** [[Knight]]
** [[Priest]]
** [[Monk]]
** [[Ranger]]
** [[Rogue]]
** [[Samurai]]
** [[Tourist]]
** [[Valkyrie]]
** [[Wizard]]
* [[Object]]
** [[Artifact]]
*** [[Artifact weapon]]
**** [[Cleaver]]
**** [[Demonbane]]
**** [[Dragonslayer]]
**** [[Excalibur]]
**** [[Fire Brand]]
**** [[Frost Brand]]
**** [[Giantslayer]]
**** [[Grayswandir]]
**** [[Grimtooth]]
**** [[Magicbane]]
**** [[Mjollnir]]
**** [[Ogresmasher]]
**** [[Orcrist]]
**** [[Sceptre of Might]]
**** [[Snickersnee]]
**** [[Staff of Aesculapius]]
**** [[Sting]]
**** [[Stormbringer]]
**** [[Sunsword]]
**** [[Trollsbane]]
**** [[Tsurugi of Muramasa]]
**** [[Vorpal Blade]]
**** [[Werebane]]
*** [[Other]]
**** [[Eyes of the Overworld]]
** [[Weapon]]
*** [[Long sword]]
*** [[Poleaxes]]
** [[Armor]]
** [[Potion]]
** [[Scroll]]
*** [[Label]]
**** [[XIXAXA XOXAXA XUXAXA]]
*** [[Scroll of blindness]]
** [[Wand]]
** [[Ring]]
** [[Spellbook]]
** [[Gem]]
** [[Tool]]
** [[Statue]]
** [[Boulder]]
* [[Dungeon]]
** [[Sokoban]]
** [[Gehennom]]
** [[Gnomish Mines]]
** [[Vlad's Tower]]
** [[Elemental planes]]
** [[Special level]]
** [[The quest]]
** [[Dungeon feature]]
*** [[Staircase]]
*** [[Trap]]
*** [[Ice]]
*** [[Water]]
** [[Dungeon furniture]]
*** [[Sink]]
*** [[Altar]]
*** [[Fountain]]
* [[Monster]]
** [[Soldier ant]]
** [[Cockatrice]]
** [[Wumpus]]
** [[Newt]]
** [[Ravenous Bugblatter Beast from Traal]]
** [[Unique monster]]
*** [[Croesus]]
* [[Religion]]
** [[Praying]]
** [[Sacrificing]]
* [[Attributes]]
** [[Carrying capacity]]
** [[Intrinsics]]
* [[Game history]]
* [[Conduct]]
* [[Cheating]]

===Analysis===

* [[Ascension]]
* [[Scoring]]
* [[Extinctionism]]
* [[Surviving forever]]
* [[Game phases]]
* [[Strategy]]
** [[What to wish for]]
** [[Protection racket]]
* [[Tactics]]

===Third party/community creations===

* [[Next version pool]]
* [[Hearse]]
* [[Patches]]
** [[Photography patch]]
** [[Color alchemy patch]]
** [[Menucolors patch]]
* [[Similar games]]
** [[Rogue]]
** [[Angband]]
** [[Dungeon Crawl]]
* [[Nethack derivatives]]
** [[Patchhack]]

===Categories===
* [[:Category:Guidebook]]
* [[:Category:Strategies]]
* [[:Category:Spoilers]]
* [[:Category:Websites]]</text>
      <sha1>nh8m4inuavq0inzxkvsedbskmezz6yl</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>73</id>
      <parentid>56</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-12-10T02:32:38Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>{{community}}; intro links to Gameinfo, Wikibooks, Novelas</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3042">{{community}}

Not much here at the moment. Wikis need seeding before they can grow. This page is currently being seeded!

== Introduction ==
{{wikipedia|NetHack}}
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information page''
* [[Wikibooks:NetHack]] ''game guide''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''

This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.

== Article seeds ==

The following list is a smattering of what is possible for the wiki. Please write unwritten articles! The list is only very roughly organised. Exactly what organization is best can be decided later.

===Some general articles===

These articles will probably be 'portals' to other, more detailed articles. Sub-bulletpoints mark more specific articles. Again, it's a wiki, so nothing is concrete!

* [[Class]]
** [[Archaeologist]]
** [[Barbarian]]
** [[Caveman]]
** [[Healer]]
** [[Knight]]
** [[Priest]]
** [[Monk]]
** [[Ranger]]
** [[Rogue]]
** [[Samurai]]
** [[Tourist]]
** [[Valkyrie]]
** [[Wizard]]
* [[Object]]
** [[Artifact]]
*** [[Artifact weapon]]
**** [[Cleaver]]
**** [[Demonbane]]
**** [[Dragonslayer]]
**** [[Excalibur]]
**** [[Fire Brand]]
**** [[Frost Brand]]
**** [[Giantslayer]]
**** [[Grayswandir]]
**** [[Grimtooth]]
**** [[Magicbane]]
**** [[Mjollnir]]
**** [[Ogresmasher]]
**** [[Orcrist]]
**** [[Sceptre of Might]]
**** [[Snickersnee]]
**** [[Staff of Aesculapius]]
**** [[Sting]]
**** [[Stormbringer]]
**** [[Sunsword]]
**** [[Trollsbane]]
**** [[Tsurugi of Muramasa]]
**** [[Vorpal Blade]]
**** [[Werebane]]
*** [[Other]]
**** [[Eyes of the Overworld]]
** [[Weapon]]
*** [[Long sword]]
*** [[Poleaxes]]
** [[Armor]]
** [[Potion]]
** [[Scroll]]
*** [[Label]]
**** [[XIXAXA XOXAXA XUXAXA]]
*** [[Scroll of blindness]]
** [[Wand]]
** [[Ring]]
** [[Spellbook]]
** [[Gem]]
** [[Tool]]
** [[Statue]]
** [[Boulder]]
* [[Dungeon]]
** [[Sokoban]]
** [[Gehennom]]
** [[Gnomish Mines]]
** [[Vlad's Tower]]
** [[Elemental planes]]
** [[Special level]]
** [[The quest]]
** [[Dungeon feature]]
*** [[Staircase]]
*** [[Trap]]
*** [[Ice]]
*** [[Water]]
** [[Dungeon furniture]]
*** [[Sink]]
*** [[Altar]]
*** [[Fountain]]
* [[Monster]]
** [[Soldier ant]]
** [[Cockatrice]]
** [[Wumpus]]
** [[Newt]]
** [[Ravenous Bugblatter Beast from Traal]]
** [[Unique monster]]
*** [[Croesus]]
* [[Religion]]
** [[Praying]]
** [[Sacrificing]]
* [[Attributes]]
** [[Carrying capacity]]
** [[Intrinsics]]
* [[Game history]]
* [[Conduct]]
* [[Cheating]]

===Analysis===

* [[Ascension]]
* [[Scoring]]
* [[Extinctionism]]
* [[Surviving forever]]
* [[Game phases]]
* [[Strategy]]
** [[What to wish for]]
** [[Protection racket]]
* [[Tactics]]

===Third party/community creations===

* [[Next version pool]]
* [[Hearse]]
* [[Patches]]
** [[Photography patch]]
** [[Color alchemy patch]]
** [[Menucolors patch]]
* [[Similar games]]
** [[Rogue]]
** [[Angband]]
** [[Dungeon Crawl]]
* [[Nethack derivatives]]
** [[Patchhack]]

===Categories===
* [[:Category:Guidebook]]
* [[:Category:Strategies]]
* [[:Category:Spoilers]]
* [[:Category:Websites]]</text>
      <sha1>51y5ipwr5ncqqjkevule9n1o41s2t04</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>76</id>
      <parentid>73</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-12-10T05:01:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Some general articles */ move seeds to [[artifact weapon]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="2567">{{community}}

Not much here at the moment. Wikis need seeding before they can grow. This page is currently being seeded!

== Introduction ==
{{wikipedia|NetHack}}
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information page''
* [[Wikibooks:NetHack]] ''game guide''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''

This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.

== Article seeds ==

The following list is a smattering of what is possible for the wiki. Please write unwritten articles! The list is only very roughly organised. Exactly what organization is best can be decided later.

===Some general articles===

These articles will probably be 'portals' to other, more detailed articles. Sub-bulletpoints mark more specific articles. Again, it's a wiki, so nothing is concrete!

* [[Class]]
** [[Archaeologist]]
** [[Barbarian]]
** [[Caveman]]
** [[Healer]]
** [[Knight]]
** [[Priest]]
** [[Monk]]
** [[Ranger]]
** [[Rogue]]
** [[Samurai]]
** [[Tourist]]
** [[Valkyrie]]
** [[Wizard]]
* [[Object]]
** [[Artifact]]
*** [[Artifact weapon]]
*** [[Other]]
**** [[Eyes of the Overworld]]
** [[Weapon]]
*** [[Long sword]]
*** [[Poleaxes]]
** [[Armor]]
** [[Potion]]
** [[Scroll]]
*** [[Label]]
**** [[XIXAXA XOXAXA XUXAXA]]
*** [[Scroll of blindness]]
** [[Wand]]
** [[Ring]]
** [[Spellbook]]
** [[Gem]]
** [[Tool]]
** [[Statue]]
** [[Boulder]]
* [[Dungeon]]
** [[Sokoban]]
** [[Gehennom]]
** [[Gnomish Mines]]
** [[Vlad's Tower]]
** [[Elemental planes]]
** [[Special level]]
** [[The quest]]
** [[Dungeon feature]]
*** [[Staircase]]
*** [[Trap]]
*** [[Ice]]
*** [[Water]]
** [[Dungeon furniture]]
*** [[Sink]]
*** [[Altar]]
*** [[Fountain]]
* [[Monster]]
** [[Soldier ant]]
** [[Cockatrice]]
** [[Wumpus]]
** [[Newt]]
** [[Ravenous Bugblatter Beast from Traal]]
** [[Unique monster]]
*** [[Croesus]]
* [[Religion]]
** [[Praying]]
** [[Sacrificing]]
* [[Attributes]]
** [[Carrying capacity]]
** [[Intrinsics]]
* [[Game history]]
* [[Conduct]]
* [[Cheating]]

===Analysis===

* [[Ascension]]
* [[Scoring]]
* [[Extinctionism]]
* [[Surviving forever]]
* [[Game phases]]
* [[Strategy]]
** [[What to wish for]]
** [[Protection racket]]
* [[Tactics]]

===Third party/community creations===

* [[Next version pool]]
* [[Hearse]]
* [[Patches]]
** [[Photography patch]]
** [[Color alchemy patch]]
** [[Menucolors patch]]
* [[Similar games]]
** [[Rogue]]
** [[Angband]]
** [[Dungeon Crawl]]
* [[Nethack derivatives]]
** [[Patchhack]]

===Categories===
* [[:Category:Guidebook]]
* [[:Category:Strategies]]
* [[:Category:Spoilers]]
* [[:Category:Websites]]</text>
      <sha1>7m9lpdy4e0y2vygxqj2jhzec4cm5ojx</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>89</id>
      <parentid>76</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-12-10T05:07:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Some general articles */ some magic seeds</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="2639">{{community}}

Not much here at the moment. Wikis need seeding before they can grow. This page is currently being seeded!

== Introduction ==
{{wikipedia|NetHack}}
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information page''
* [[Wikibooks:NetHack]] ''game guide''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''

This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.

== Article seeds ==

The following list is a smattering of what is possible for the wiki. Please write unwritten articles! The list is only very roughly organised. Exactly what organization is best can be decided later.

===Some general articles===

These articles will probably be 'portals' to other, more detailed articles. Sub-bulletpoints mark more specific articles. Again, it's a wiki, so nothing is concrete!

* [[Class]]
** [[Archaeologist]]
** [[Barbarian]]
** [[Caveman]]
** [[Healer]]
** [[Knight]]
** [[Priest]]
** [[Monk]]
** [[Ranger]]
** [[Rogue]]
** [[Samurai]]
** [[Tourist]]
** [[Valkyrie]]
** [[Wizard]]
* [[Object]]
** [[Artifact]]
*** [[Artifact weapon]]
*** [[Other]]
**** [[Eyes of the Overworld]]
** [[Weapon]]
*** [[Long sword]]
*** [[Poleaxes]]
** [[Armor]]
** [[Potion]]
** [[Scroll]]
*** [[Label]]
**** [[XIXAXA XOXAXA XUXAXA]]
*** [[Scroll of blindness]]
** [[Wand]]
** [[Ring]]
** [[Spellbook]]
** [[Gem]]
** [[Tool]]
** [[Statue]]
** [[Boulder]]
* [[Dungeon]]
** [[Sokoban]]
** [[Gehennom]]
** [[Gnomish Mines]]
** [[Vlad's Tower]]
** [[Elemental planes]]
** [[Special level]]
** [[The quest]]
** [[Dungeon feature]]
*** [[Staircase]]
*** [[Trap]]
*** [[Ice]]
*** [[Water]]
** [[Dungeon furniture]]
*** [[Sink]]
*** [[Altar]]
*** [[Fountain]]
* [[Monster]]
** [[Soldier ant]]
** [[Cockatrice]]
** [[Wumpus]]
** [[Newt]]
** [[Ravenous Bugblatter Beast from Traal]]
** [[Unique monster]]
*** [[Croesus]]
* [[Magic]]
** [[Curse]]
** [[Blindness]]
** [[Confusion]]
** [[Sleep]]
* [[Religion]]
** [[Praying]]
** [[Sacrificing]]
* [[Attributes]]
** [[Carrying capacity]]
** [[Intrinsics]]
* [[Game history]]
* [[Conduct]]
* [[Cheating]]

===Analysis===

* [[Ascension]]
* [[Scoring]]
* [[Extinctionism]]
* [[Surviving forever]]
* [[Game phases]]
* [[Strategy]]
** [[What to wish for]]
** [[Protection racket]]
* [[Tactics]]

===Third party/community creations===

* [[Next version pool]]
* [[Hearse]]
* [[Patches]]
** [[Photography patch]]
** [[Color alchemy patch]]
** [[Menucolors patch]]
* [[Similar games]]
** [[Rogue]]
** [[Angband]]
** [[Dungeon Crawl]]
* [[Nethack derivatives]]
** [[Patchhack]]

===Categories===
* [[:Category:Guidebook]]
* [[:Category:Strategies]]
* [[:Category:Spoilers]]
* [[:Category:Websites]]</text>
      <sha1>t98vjs189nblqic00m0sk1mi75ejllx</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>90</id>
      <parentid>89</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-12-10T07:00:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Introduction */ need to use Wikipedia2</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="2640">{{community}}

Not much here at the moment. Wikis need seeding before they can grow. This page is currently being seeded!

== Introduction ==
{{wikipedia2|NetHack}}
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information page''
* [[Wikibooks:NetHack]] ''game guide''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''

This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.

== Article seeds ==

The following list is a smattering of what is possible for the wiki. Please write unwritten articles! The list is only very roughly organised. Exactly what organization is best can be decided later.

===Some general articles===

These articles will probably be 'portals' to other, more detailed articles. Sub-bulletpoints mark more specific articles. Again, it's a wiki, so nothing is concrete!

* [[Class]]
** [[Archaeologist]]
** [[Barbarian]]
** [[Caveman]]
** [[Healer]]
** [[Knight]]
** [[Priest]]
** [[Monk]]
** [[Ranger]]
** [[Rogue]]
** [[Samurai]]
** [[Tourist]]
** [[Valkyrie]]
** [[Wizard]]
* [[Object]]
** [[Artifact]]
*** [[Artifact weapon]]
*** [[Other]]
**** [[Eyes of the Overworld]]
** [[Weapon]]
*** [[Long sword]]
*** [[Poleaxes]]
** [[Armor]]
** [[Potion]]
** [[Scroll]]
*** [[Label]]
**** [[XIXAXA XOXAXA XUXAXA]]
*** [[Scroll of blindness]]
** [[Wand]]
** [[Ring]]
** [[Spellbook]]
** [[Gem]]
** [[Tool]]
** [[Statue]]
** [[Boulder]]
* [[Dungeon]]
** [[Sokoban]]
** [[Gehennom]]
** [[Gnomish Mines]]
** [[Vlad's Tower]]
** [[Elemental planes]]
** [[Special level]]
** [[The quest]]
** [[Dungeon feature]]
*** [[Staircase]]
*** [[Trap]]
*** [[Ice]]
*** [[Water]]
** [[Dungeon furniture]]
*** [[Sink]]
*** [[Altar]]
*** [[Fountain]]
* [[Monster]]
** [[Soldier ant]]
** [[Cockatrice]]
** [[Wumpus]]
** [[Newt]]
** [[Ravenous Bugblatter Beast from Traal]]
** [[Unique monster]]
*** [[Croesus]]
* [[Magic]]
** [[Curse]]
** [[Blindness]]
** [[Confusion]]
** [[Sleep]]
* [[Religion]]
** [[Praying]]
** [[Sacrificing]]
* [[Attributes]]
** [[Carrying capacity]]
** [[Intrinsics]]
* [[Game history]]
* [[Conduct]]
* [[Cheating]]

===Analysis===

* [[Ascension]]
* [[Scoring]]
* [[Extinctionism]]
* [[Surviving forever]]
* [[Game phases]]
* [[Strategy]]
** [[What to wish for]]
** [[Protection racket]]
* [[Tactics]]

===Third party/community creations===

* [[Next version pool]]
* [[Hearse]]
* [[Patches]]
** [[Photography patch]]
** [[Color alchemy patch]]
** [[Menucolors patch]]
* [[Similar games]]
** [[Rogue]]
** [[Angband]]
** [[Dungeon Crawl]]
* [[Nethack derivatives]]
** [[Patchhack]]

===Categories===
* [[:Category:Guidebook]]
* [[:Category:Strategies]]
* [[:Category:Spoilers]]
* [[:Category:Websites]]</text>
      <sha1>gl3ocdktlxw45gkbphfc60v3v7e0t58</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>93</id>
      <parentid>90</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-12-10T22:20:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Some general articles */ move class seeds to [[class]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="2446">{{community}}

Not much here at the moment. Wikis need seeding before they can grow. This page is currently being seeded!

== Introduction ==
{{wikipedia2|NetHack}}
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information page''
* [[Wikibooks:NetHack]] ''game guide''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''

This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.

== Article seeds ==

The following list is a smattering of what is possible for the wiki. Please write unwritten articles! The list is only very roughly organised. Exactly what organization is best can be decided later.

===Some general articles===

These articles will probably be 'portals' to other, more detailed articles. Sub-bulletpoints mark more specific articles. Again, it's a wiki, so nothing is concrete!

* [[Class]]
* [[Object]]
** [[Artifact]]
*** [[Artifact weapon]]
*** [[Other]]
**** [[Eyes of the Overworld]]
** [[Weapon]]
*** [[Long sword]]
*** [[Poleaxes]]
** [[Armor]]
** [[Potion]]
** [[Scroll]]
*** [[Label]]
**** [[XIXAXA XOXAXA XUXAXA]]
*** [[Scroll of blindness]]
** [[Wand]]
** [[Ring]]
** [[Spellbook]]
** [[Gem]]
** [[Tool]]
** [[Statue]]
** [[Boulder]]
* [[Dungeon]]
** [[Sokoban]]
** [[Gehennom]]
** [[Gnomish Mines]]
** [[Vlad's Tower]]
** [[Elemental planes]]
** [[Special level]]
** [[The quest]]
** [[Dungeon feature]]
*** [[Staircase]]
*** [[Trap]]
*** [[Ice]]
*** [[Water]]
** [[Dungeon furniture]]
*** [[Sink]]
*** [[Altar]]
*** [[Fountain]]
* [[Monster]]
** [[Soldier ant]]
** [[Cockatrice]]
** [[Wumpus]]
** [[Newt]]
** [[Ravenous Bugblatter Beast from Traal]]
** [[Unique monster]]
*** [[Croesus]]
* [[Magic]]
** [[Curse]]
** [[Blindness]]
** [[Confusion]]
** [[Sleep]]
* [[Religion]]
** [[Praying]]
** [[Sacrificing]]
* [[Attributes]]
** [[Carrying capacity]]
** [[Intrinsics]]
* [[Game history]]
* [[Conduct]]
* [[Cheating]]

===Analysis===

* [[Ascension]]
* [[Scoring]]
* [[Extinctionism]]
* [[Surviving forever]]
* [[Game phases]]
* [[Strategy]]
** [[What to wish for]]
** [[Protection racket]]
* [[Tactics]]

===Third party/community creations===

* [[Next version pool]]
* [[Hearse]]
* [[Patches]]
** [[Photography patch]]
** [[Color alchemy patch]]
** [[Menucolors patch]]
* [[Similar games]]
** [[Rogue]]
** [[Angband]]
** [[Dungeon Crawl]]
* [[Nethack derivatives]]
** [[Patchhack]]

===Categories===
* [[:Category:Guidebook]]
* [[:Category:Strategies]]
* [[:Category:Spoilers]]
* [[:Category:Websites]]</text>
      <sha1>jodoyp0wcb7qho4jgccpp3e7ulvwl3v</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>94</id>
      <parentid>93</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-12-10T22:39:23Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Some general articles */ remove more seeds to new articles</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="2269">{{community}}

Not much here at the moment. Wikis need seeding before they can grow. This page is currently being seeded!

== Introduction ==
{{wikipedia2|NetHack}}
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information page''
* [[Wikibooks:NetHack]] ''game guide''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''

This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.

== Article seeds ==

The following list is a smattering of what is possible for the wiki. Please write unwritten articles! The list is only very roughly organised. Exactly what organization is best can be decided later.

===Some general articles===

These articles will probably be 'portals' to other, more detailed articles. Sub-bulletpoints mark more specific articles. Again, it's a wiki, so nothing is concrete!

* [[Class]]
* [[Object]]
** [[Artifact]]
** [[Weapon]]
** [[Armor]]
** [[Potion]]
** [[Scroll]]
** [[Wand]]
** [[Ring]]
** [[Spellbook]]
** [[Gem]]
** [[Tool]]
** [[Statue]]
** [[Boulder]]
* [[Dungeon]]
** [[Sokoban]]
** [[Gehennom]]
** [[Gnomish Mines]]
** [[Vlad's Tower]]
** [[Elemental planes]]
** [[Special level]]
** [[The quest]]
** [[Dungeon feature]]
*** [[Staircase]]
*** [[Trap]]
*** [[Ice]]
*** [[Water]]
** [[Dungeon furniture]]
*** [[Sink]]
*** [[Altar]]
*** [[Fountain]]
* [[Monster]]
** [[Soldier ant]]
** [[Cockatrice]]
** [[Wumpus]]
** [[Newt]]
** [[Ravenous Bugblatter Beast from Traal]]
** [[Unique monster]]
*** [[Croesus]]
* [[Magic]]
** [[Curse]]
** [[Blindness]]
** [[Confusion]]
** [[Sleep]]
* [[Religion]]
** [[Praying]]
** [[Sacrificing]]
* [[Attributes]]
** [[Carrying capacity]]
** [[Intrinsics]]
* [[Game history]]
* [[Conduct]]
* [[Cheating]]

===Analysis===

* [[Ascension]]
* [[Scoring]]
* [[Extinctionism]]
* [[Surviving forever]]
* [[Game phases]]
* [[Strategy]]
** [[What to wish for]]
** [[Protection racket]]
* [[Tactics]]

===Third party/community creations===

* [[Next version pool]]
* [[Hearse]]
* [[Patches]]
** [[Photography patch]]
** [[Color alchemy patch]]
** [[Menucolors patch]]
* [[Similar games]]
** [[Rogue]]
** [[Angband]]
** [[Dungeon Crawl]]
* [[Nethack derivatives]]
** [[Patchhack]]

===Categories===
* [[:Category:Guidebook]]
* [[:Category:Strategies]]
* [[:Category:Spoilers]]
* [[:Category:Websites]]</text>
      <sha1>jeucng003d5as2wfnk898qdp2k9qvmm</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>95</id>
      <parentid>94</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-12-10T22:46:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Some general articles */ move away [[object]] and [[dungeon]] seeds</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="1822">{{community}}

Not much here at the moment. Wikis need seeding before they can grow. This page is currently being seeded!

== Introduction ==
{{wikipedia2|NetHack}}
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information page''
* [[Wikibooks:NetHack]] ''game guide''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''

This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.

== Article seeds ==

The following list is a smattering of what is possible for the wiki. Please write unwritten articles! The list is only very roughly organised. Exactly what organization is best can be decided later.

===Some general articles===

These articles will probably be 'portals' to other, more detailed articles. Sub-bulletpoints mark more specific articles. Again, it's a wiki, so nothing is concrete!

* [[Class]]
* [[Object]]
* [[Dungeon]]
* [[Monster]]
** [[Soldier ant]]
** [[Cockatrice]]
** [[Wumpus]]
** [[Newt]]
** [[Ravenous Bugblatter Beast from Traal]]
** [[Unique monster]]
*** [[Croesus]]
* [[Magic]]
** [[Curse]]
** [[Blindness]]
** [[Confusion]]
** [[Sleep]]
* [[Religion]]
** [[Praying]]
** [[Sacrificing]]
* [[Attributes]]
** [[Carrying capacity]]
** [[Intrinsics]]
* [[Game history]]
* [[Conduct]]
* [[Cheating]]

===Analysis===

* [[Ascension]]
* [[Scoring]]
* [[Extinctionism]]
* [[Surviving forever]]
* [[Game phases]]
* [[Strategy]]
** [[What to wish for]]
** [[Protection racket]]
* [[Tactics]]

===Third party/community creations===

* [[Next version pool]]
* [[Hearse]]
* [[Patches]]
** [[Photography patch]]
** [[Color alchemy patch]]
** [[Menucolors patch]]
* [[Similar games]]
** [[Rogue]]
** [[Angband]]
** [[Dungeon Crawl]]
* [[Nethack derivatives]]
** [[Patchhack]]

===Categories===
* [[:Category:Guidebook]]
* [[:Category:Strategies]]
* [[:Category:Spoilers]]
* [[:Category:Websites]]</text>
      <sha1>4vog6r7qtzte58e6nuhacmtvv0klbcp</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>98</id>
      <parentid>95</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-12-12T09:29:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Dittoboy</username>
        <id>207</id>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="196">Hello, I will get Bar Ilan University blocked here, proof that this Wikicity is a political entity. [[User:Dittoboy|Dittoboy, the gread devolved Bulbasaur from Wikipedia]] 09:29, 12 Dec 2005 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>1mjvgk24za4uplnc50gfee71xlzs7dm</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>114</id>
      <parentid>98</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-12-12T22:08:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>revert obvious damage to main page, restoring last version by Kernigh</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="1822">{{community}}

Not much here at the moment. Wikis need seeding before they can grow. This page is currently being seeded!

== Introduction ==
{{wikipedia2|NetHack}}
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information page''
* [[Wikibooks:NetHack]] ''game guide''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''

This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.

== Article seeds ==

The following list is a smattering of what is possible for the wiki. Please write unwritten articles! The list is only very roughly organised. Exactly what organization is best can be decided later.

===Some general articles===

These articles will probably be 'portals' to other, more detailed articles. Sub-bulletpoints mark more specific articles. Again, it's a wiki, so nothing is concrete!

* [[Class]]
* [[Object]]
* [[Dungeon]]
* [[Monster]]
** [[Soldier ant]]
** [[Cockatrice]]
** [[Wumpus]]
** [[Newt]]
** [[Ravenous Bugblatter Beast from Traal]]
** [[Unique monster]]
*** [[Croesus]]
* [[Magic]]
** [[Curse]]
** [[Blindness]]
** [[Confusion]]
** [[Sleep]]
* [[Religion]]
** [[Praying]]
** [[Sacrificing]]
* [[Attributes]]
** [[Carrying capacity]]
** [[Intrinsics]]
* [[Game history]]
* [[Conduct]]
* [[Cheating]]

===Analysis===

* [[Ascension]]
* [[Scoring]]
* [[Extinctionism]]
* [[Surviving forever]]
* [[Game phases]]
* [[Strategy]]
** [[What to wish for]]
** [[Protection racket]]
* [[Tactics]]

===Third party/community creations===

* [[Next version pool]]
* [[Hearse]]
* [[Patches]]
** [[Photography patch]]
** [[Color alchemy patch]]
** [[Menucolors patch]]
* [[Similar games]]
** [[Rogue]]
** [[Angband]]
** [[Dungeon Crawl]]
* [[Nethack derivatives]]
** [[Patchhack]]

===Categories===
* [[:Category:Guidebook]]
* [[:Category:Strategies]]
* [[:Category:Spoilers]]
* [[:Category:Websites]]</text>
      <sha1>4vog6r7qtzte58e6nuhacmtvv0klbcp</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>115</id>
      <parentid>114</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-12-13T02:43:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>deploy new gameinfo2, wikibooks2, novelas2 templates</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="1851">{{community}}

Not much here at the moment. Wikis need seeding before they can grow. This page is currently being seeded!

== Introduction ==
{{gameinfo2|NetHack}}
{{wikibooks2|NetHack}}
{{novelas2|NetHack}}
This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.

=== External links ===
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''Wikipedia article''

== Article seeds ==

The following list is a smattering of what is possible for the wiki. Please write unwritten articles! The list is only very roughly organised. Exactly what organization is best can be decided later.

===Some general articles===

These articles will probably be 'portals' to other, more detailed articles. Sub-bulletpoints mark more specific articles. Again, it's a wiki, so nothing is concrete!

* [[Class]]
* [[Object]]
* [[Dungeon]]
* [[Monster]]
** [[Soldier ant]]
** [[Cockatrice]]
** [[Wumpus]]
** [[Newt]]
** [[Ravenous Bugblatter Beast from Traal]]
** [[Unique monster]]
*** [[Croesus]]
* [[Magic]]
** [[Curse]]
** [[Blindness]]
** [[Confusion]]
** [[Sleep]]
* [[Religion]]
** [[Praying]]
** [[Sacrificing]]
* [[Attributes]]
** [[Carrying capacity]]
** [[Intrinsics]]
* [[Game history]]
* [[Conduct]]
* [[Cheating]]

===Analysis===

* [[Ascension]]
* [[Scoring]]
* [[Extinctionism]]
* [[Surviving forever]]
* [[Game phases]]
* [[Strategy]]
** [[What to wish for]]
** [[Protection racket]]
* [[Tactics]]

===Third party/community creations===

* [[Next version pool]]
* [[Hearse]]
* [[Patches]]
** [[Photography patch]]
** [[Color alchemy patch]]
** [[Menucolors patch]]
* [[Similar games]]
** [[Rogue]]
** [[Angband]]
** [[Dungeon Crawl]]
* [[Nethack derivatives]]
** [[Patchhack]]

===Categories===
* [[:Category:Guidebook]]
* [[:Category:Strategies]]
* [[:Category:Spoilers]]
* [[:Category:Websites]]</text>
      <sha1>nacvebbojtlshcb9bwhl6daaqla7k6o</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>118</id>
      <parentid>115</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-12-13T02:47:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>reformat the top of the page, welcome user; remove {{community}}</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="1612">{{gameinfo2|NetHack}}
{{wikibooks2|NetHack}}
{{novelas2|NetHack}}

Welcome to this new NetHack wiki. See [[Project:About]]. Please help by clicking red links and writing the unwritten articles!

This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself. __NOTOC__

* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''Wikipedia article''

=== Some general articles ===

These articles will probably be 'portals' to other, more detailed articles. Sub-bulletpoints mark more specific articles. Again, it's a wiki, so nothing is concrete!

* [[Class]]
* [[Object]]
* [[Dungeon]]
* [[Monster]]
** [[Soldier ant]]
** [[Cockatrice]]
** [[Wumpus]]
** [[Newt]]
** [[Ravenous Bugblatter Beast from Traal]]
** [[Unique monster]]
*** [[Croesus]]
* [[Magic]]
** [[Curse]]
** [[Blindness]]
** [[Confusion]]
** [[Sleep]]
* [[Religion]]
** [[Praying]]
** [[Sacrificing]]
* [[Attributes]]
** [[Carrying capacity]]
** [[Intrinsics]]
* [[Game history]]
* [[Conduct]]
* [[Cheating]]

=== Analysis ===

* [[Ascension]]
* [[Scoring]]
* [[Extinctionism]]
* [[Surviving forever]]
* [[Game phases]]
* [[Strategy]]
** [[What to wish for]]
** [[Protection racket]]
* [[Tactics]]

=== Third party/community creations ===

* [[Next version pool]]
* [[Hearse]]
* [[Patches]]
** [[Photography patch]]
** [[Color alchemy patch]]
** [[Menucolors patch]]
* [[Similar games]]
** [[Rogue]]
** [[Angband]]
** [[Dungeon Crawl]]
* [[Nethack derivatives]]
** [[Patchhack]]

=== Categories ===
* [[:Category:Guidebook]]
* [[:Category:Strategies]]
* [[:Category:Spoilers]]
* [[:Category:Websites]]</text>
      <sha1>nckdi8adne0odf81sy15qp6ikiveg9d</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>128</id>
      <parentid>118</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-12-13T20:14:01Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Some general articles */ some seeds moved to other articles</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="1329">{{gameinfo2|NetHack}}
{{wikibooks2|NetHack}}
{{novelas2|NetHack}}

Welcome to this new NetHack wiki. See [[Project:About]]. Please help by clicking red links and writing the unwritten articles!

This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself. __NOTOC__

* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''Wikipedia article''

=== Some general articles ===

These articles will probably be 'portals' to other, more detailed articles. Sub-bulletpoints mark more specific articles. Again, it's a wiki, so nothing is concrete!

* [[Class]]
* [[Object]]
* [[Dungeon]]
* [[Monster]]
* [[Magic]]
* [[Religion]]
* [[Attribute]]
* [[Game history]]
* [[Conduct]]
* [[Cheating]]

=== Analysis ===

* [[Ascension]]
* [[Scoring]]
* [[Extinctionism]]
* [[Surviving forever]]
* [[Game phases]]
* [[Strategy]]
** [[What to wish for]]
** [[Protection racket]]
* [[Tactics]]

=== Third party/community creations ===

* [[Next version pool]]
* [[Hearse]]
* [[Patches]]
** [[Photography patch]]
** [[Color alchemy patch]]
** [[Menucolors patch]]
* [[Similar games]]
** [[Rogue]]
** [[Angband]]
** [[Dungeon Crawl]]
* [[Nethack derivatives]]
** [[Patchhack]]

=== Categories ===
* [[:Category:Guidebook]]
* [[:Category:Strategies]]
* [[:Category:Spoilers]]
* [[:Category:Websites]]</text>
      <sha1>94iq3pj4b739yp14259qyojvbjtu531</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>154</id>
      <parentid>128</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-12-14T23:51:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Categories */ removing categories, see instead [[Project:Categories]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="1206">{{gameinfo2|NetHack}}
{{wikibooks2|NetHack}}
{{novelas2|NetHack}}

Welcome to this new NetHack wiki. See [[Project:About]]. Please help by clicking red links and writing the unwritten articles!

This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself. __NOTOC__

* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''Wikipedia article''

=== Some general articles ===

These articles will probably be 'portals' to other, more detailed articles. Sub-bulletpoints mark more specific articles. Again, it's a wiki, so nothing is concrete!

* [[Class]]
* [[Object]]
* [[Dungeon]]
* [[Monster]]
* [[Magic]]
* [[Religion]]
* [[Attribute]]
* [[Game history]]
* [[Conduct]]
* [[Cheating]]

=== Analysis ===

* [[Ascension]]
* [[Scoring]]
* [[Extinctionism]]
* [[Surviving forever]]
* [[Game phases]]
* [[Strategy]]
** [[What to wish for]]
** [[Protection racket]]
* [[Tactics]]

=== Third party/community creations ===

* [[Next version pool]]
* [[Hearse]]
* [[Patches]]
** [[Photography patch]]
** [[Color alchemy patch]]
** [[Menucolors patch]]
* [[Similar games]]
** [[Rogue]]
** [[Angband]]
** [[Dungeon Crawl]]
* [[Nethack derivatives]]
** [[Patchhack]]</text>
      <sha1>qof82tf3ajara1zp05cikyaooukndy6</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171</id>
      <parentid>154</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-01-05T22:19:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>moving article seeds to [[NetHack]] article</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="492">{{gameinfo2|NetHack}}
{{wikibooks2|NetHack}}
{{novelas2|NetHack}}

Welcome to this new NetHack wiki. See [[Project:About]]. Please help by clicking red links and writing the unwritten articles!

This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.

&lt;span style="font-size: larger;"&gt;'''[[NetHack|Read more about NetHack...]]'''&lt;/span&gt;

=== External links ===
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''Wikipedia article''</text>
      <sha1>0cm70btfcqhjz5smkvt3k7e3lg9oj85</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>1572</id>
      <parentid>171</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-01-29T08:50:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>24.119.1.155</ip>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="603">{{gameinfo2|NetHack}}
{{wikibooks2|NetHack}}
{{novelas2|NetHack}}

Welcome to this new NetHack wiki. See [[Project:About]]. Please help by clicking red links and writing the unwritten articles!

This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.

&lt;span style="font-size: larger;"&gt;'''[[NetHack|Read more about NetHack...]]'''&lt;/span&gt;

=== Starting points ===
* [[Getting]]
* [[Character]]
* [[Dungeon]]
* [[Items]]
* [[Messages]]
* [[Monsters]]

=== External links ===
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''Wikipedia article''</text>
      <sha1>gt7vxuy1wpd0zt3ys17bud2bdx72z0l</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>1573</id>
      <parentid>1572</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-01-29T08:50:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>24.119.1.155</ip>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="589">{{gameinfo2|NetHack}}
{{wikibooks2|NetHack}}
{{novelas2|NetHack}}

Welcome to this new NetHack wiki. See [[Project:About]]. Please help by clicking red links and writing the unwritten articles!

This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.

&lt;span style="font-size: larger;"&gt;'''[[NetHack|Read more about NetHack...]]'''&lt;/span&gt;

=== Starting points ===
* [[Character]]
* [[Dungeon]]
* [[Items]]
* [[Messages]]
* [[Monsters]]

=== External links ===
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''Wikipedia article''</text>
      <sha1>givm31h212z6lfveiw3uh9o4zg6alwn</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>1575</id>
      <parentid>1573</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-01-29T09:09:42Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>24.119.1.155</ip>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="589">{{gameinfo2|NetHack}}
{{wikibooks2|NetHack}}
{{novelas2|NetHack}}

Welcome to this new NetHack wiki. See [[Project:About]]. Please help by clicking red links and writing the unwritten articles!

This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.

&lt;span style="font-size: larger;"&gt;'''[[NetHack|Read more about NetHack...]]'''&lt;/span&gt;

=== Starting points ===
* [[Character]]
* [[Dungeon]]
* [[Items]]
* [[Message]]s
* [[Monster]]s

=== External links ===
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''Wikipedia article''</text>
      <sha1>ginvyceqtfju06x4eao42m05xf0bpuv</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>1576</id>
      <parentid>1575</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-01-29T09:12:13Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>24.119.1.155</ip>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="589">{{gameinfo2|NetHack}}
{{wikibooks2|NetHack}}
{{novelas2|NetHack}}

Welcome to this new NetHack wiki. See [[Project:About]]. Please help by clicking red links and writing the unwritten articles!

This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.

&lt;span style="font-size: larger;"&gt;'''[[NetHack|Read more about NetHack...]]'''&lt;/span&gt;

=== Starting points ===
* [[Character]]
* [[Dungeon]]
* [[Item]]s
* [[Message]]s
* [[Monster]]s

=== External links ===
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''Wikipedia article''</text>
      <sha1>f59ov0onvortuseesylu1g8gry8c894</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>1649</id>
      <parentid>1576</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-02-15T04:30:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Main page redesign! The "Wikicities message" suggest inputboxes, so I added both create and search boxes, but I use HTML and CSS, so less-advanced users might have some trouble editing the page.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="2434">&lt;!-- Copyright 2005, 2006 Contributors to Wikicities
  -- See http://nethack.wikicities.com/wiki/Wikihack:Copyrights for license.
  --&gt;
{| border="2" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="margin: 1em 1em 1em 0; background: #f9f9f9; border: 1px #aaa solid; border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center;" |
&lt;div style="font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color: red;"&gt;This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

[[We]] started this new [[wiki]] at 11 October 2005. We already have '''{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}''' articles, but many of them are short [[:Category:stubs|stubs]].

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Starting points
&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Character]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Dungeon]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Item]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Message]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Monster]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Source code]]
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Post your [[wisdom]] to Wikihack
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type the name of a [[monster]], [[object]], or anything interesting from ''[[NetHack]]'', then click "{{MediaWiki:Createarticle}}". Use lowercase letters for [[scroll of identify]], but capitalise [[Amulet of Yendor]].&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=create
&lt;/inputbox&gt;

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Search Wikihack with [[dexterity]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type something into the box, then click "{{MediaWiki:Tryexact}}" to seek the wiki page of that name, or "{{MediaWiki:Searchfulltext}}" to search all of Wikihack for that text.&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=search
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
|-
| colspan="2" style="background-color: pink; text-align: center;" |
'''EXTERNAL LINKS'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: smaller;" |
'''Wikis'''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''encyclopedia article''
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information''
* [[Wikibooks:NetHack]] ''book of introduction''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: smaller;" |
'''The Internet'''
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* http://www.steelypips.org/nethack ''"Yet Another NetHack Site"''
* http://dudley.nicolaas.net ''for [[Dudley's dungeon]], the NetHack webcomic''
|}</text>
      <sha1>gc7km5nhnwo2461gyyv3ac52r1f5jj8</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>1698</id>
      <parentid>1649</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-02-16T01:15:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>in external links, also link to the NetHack [[guidebook]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="2529">&lt;!-- Copyright 2005, 2006 Contributors to Wikicities
  -- See http://nethack.wikicities.com/wiki/Wikihack:Copyrights for license.
  --&gt;
{| border="2" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="margin: 1em 1em 1em 0; background: #f9f9f9; border: 1px #aaa solid; border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center;" |
&lt;div style="font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color: red;"&gt;This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

[[We]] started this new [[wiki]] at 11 October 2005. We already have '''{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}''' articles, but many of them are short [[:Category:stubs|stubs]].

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Starting points
&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Character]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Dungeon]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Item]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Message]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Monster]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Source code]]
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Post your [[wisdom]] to Wikihack
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type the name of a [[monster]], [[object]], or anything interesting from ''[[NetHack]]'', then click "{{MediaWiki:Createarticle}}". Use lowercase letters for [[scroll of identify]], but capitalise [[Amulet of Yendor]].&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=create
&lt;/inputbox&gt;

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Search Wikihack with [[dexterity]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type something into the box, then click "{{MediaWiki:Tryexact}}" to seek the wiki page of that name, or "{{MediaWiki:Searchfulltext}}" to search all of Wikihack for that text.&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=search
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
|-
| colspan="2" style="background-color: pink; text-align: center;" |
'''EXTERNAL LINKS'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: smaller;" |
'''Wikis'''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''encyclopedia article''
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information''
* [[Wikibooks:NetHack]] ''book of introduction''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: smaller;" |
'''The Internet'''
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* http://www.nethack.org/v343/Guidebook.html ''the [[guidebook]], an essential for beginners''
* http://www.steelypips.org/nethack ''"Yet Another NetHack Site"''
* http://dudley.nicolaas.net ''for [[Dudley's dungeon]], the NetHack webcomic''
|}</text>
      <sha1>3yvhruj67wl83t4j20jde5arfaf584x</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>1731</id>
      <parentid>1698</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-02-16T02:59:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>The entire "Hello, welcome to Wikihack!" box is now black.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="2508">&lt;!-- Copyright 2005, 2006 Contributors to Wikicities
  -- See http://nethack.wikicities.com/wiki/Wikihack:Copyrights for license.
  --&gt;
{| border="2" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="margin: 1em 1em 1em 0; background: #f9f9f9; border: 1px #aaa solid; border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;" |
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color: red;"&gt;This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

[[We]] started this new [[wiki]] at 11 October 2005. We already have '''{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}''' articles, but many of them are short [[:Category:stubs|stubs]].

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Starting points
&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Character]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Dungeon]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Item]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Message]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Monster]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Source code]]
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Post your [[wisdom]] to Wikihack
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type the name of a [[monster]], [[object]], or anything interesting from ''[[NetHack]]'', then click "{{MediaWiki:Createarticle}}". Use lowercase letters for [[scroll of identify]], but capitalise [[Amulet of Yendor]].&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=create
&lt;/inputbox&gt;

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Search Wikihack with [[dexterity]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type something into the box, then click "{{MediaWiki:Tryexact}}" to seek the wiki page of that name, or "{{MediaWiki:Searchfulltext}}" to search all of Wikihack for that text.&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=search
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
|-
| colspan="2" style="background-color: pink; text-align: center;" |
'''EXTERNAL LINKS'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: smaller;" |
'''Wikis'''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''encyclopedia article''
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information''
* [[Wikibooks:NetHack]] ''book of introduction''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: smaller;" |
'''The Internet'''
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* http://www.nethack.org/v343/Guidebook.html ''the [[guidebook]], an essential for beginners''
* http://www.steelypips.org/nethack ''"Yet Another NetHack Site"''
* http://dudley.nicolaas.net ''for [[Dudley's dungeon]], the NetHack webcomic''
|}</text>
      <sha1>ikp7nd2rq194dfzw2mvqb3ngykpfvt4</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>1786</id>
      <parentid>1731</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-02-19T20:52:38Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The thing</username>
        <id>816</id>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="2508">&lt;!-- Copyright 2005, 2006 Contributors to Fikicities
  -- See http://nethack.wikicities.com/wiki/Fikihack:Copyrights for license.
  --&gt;
{| border="2" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="margin: 1em 1em 1em 0; background: #f9f9f9; border: 1px #aaa solid; border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;" |
'''Hello, welcome to Fikihack!'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Fikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color: red;"&gt;This fiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

[[We]] started this new [[fiki]] at 11 October 2005. We already have '''{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}''' articles, but many of them are short [[:Category:stubs|stubs]].

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Starting points
&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Character]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Dungeon]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Item]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Message]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Monster]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Source code]]
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Post your [[wisdom]] to Fikihack
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type the name of a [[monster]], [[object]], or anything interesting from ''[[NetHack]]'', then click "{{MediaFiki:Createarticle}}". Use lowercase letters for [[scroll of identify]], but capitalise [[Amulet of Yendor]].&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=create
&lt;/inputbox&gt;

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Search Fikihack with [[dexterity]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type something into the box, then click "{{MediaFiki:Tryexact}}" to seek the fiki page of that name, or "{{MediaFiki:Searchfulltext}}" to search all of Fikihack for that text.&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=search
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
|-
| colspan="2" style="background-color: pink; text-align: center;" |
'''EXTERNAL LINKS'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: smaller;" |
'''Fikis'''
* [[Fikipedia:NetHack]] ''encyclopedia article''
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information''
* [[Fikibooks:NetHack]] ''book of introduction''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: smaller;" |
'''The Internet'''
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* http://www.nethack.org/v343/Guidebook.html ''the [[guidebook]], an essential for beginners''
* http://www.steelypips.org/nethack ''"Yet Another NetHack Site"''
* http://dudley.nicolaas.net ''for [[Dudley's dungeon]], the NetHack webcomic''
|}</text>
      <sha1>n4kgi2zj6ogvpzzunls9ekg5x8iarph</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>1814</id>
      <parentid>1786</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-02-20T05:41:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>revert vandalism</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="2508">&lt;!-- Copyright 2005, 2006 Contributors to Wikicities
  -- See http://nethack.wikicities.com/wiki/Wikihack:Copyrights for license.
  --&gt;
{| border="2" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="margin: 1em 1em 1em 0; background: #f9f9f9; border: 1px #aaa solid; border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;" |
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color: red;"&gt;This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

[[We]] started this new [[wiki]] at 11 October 2005. We already have '''{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}''' articles, but many of them are short [[:Category:stubs|stubs]].

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Starting points
&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Character]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Dungeon]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Item]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Message]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Monster]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Source code]]
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Post your [[wisdom]] to Wikihack
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type the name of a [[monster]], [[object]], or anything interesting from ''[[NetHack]]'', then click "{{MediaWiki:Createarticle}}". Use lowercase letters for [[scroll of identify]], but capitalise [[Amulet of Yendor]].&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=create
&lt;/inputbox&gt;

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Search Wikihack with [[dexterity]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type something into the box, then click "{{MediaWiki:Tryexact}}" to seek the wiki page of that name, or "{{MediaWiki:Searchfulltext}}" to search all of Wikihack for that text.&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=search
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
|-
| colspan="2" style="background-color: pink; text-align: center;" |
'''EXTERNAL LINKS'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: smaller;" |
'''Wikis'''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''encyclopedia article''
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information''
* [[Wikibooks:NetHack]] ''book of introduction''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: smaller;" |
'''The Internet'''
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* http://www.nethack.org/v343/Guidebook.html ''the [[guidebook]], an essential for beginners''
* http://www.steelypips.org/nethack ''"Yet Another NetHack Site"''
* http://dudley.nicolaas.net ''for [[Dudley's dungeon]], the NetHack webcomic''
|}</text>
      <sha1>ikp7nd2rq194dfzw2mvqb3ngykpfvt4</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>1987</id>
      <parentid>1814</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-03-31T23:03:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Ad RogueBasin, NetHack helper links.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="2538">{| border="2" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="margin: 1em 1em 1em 0; background: #f9f9f9; border: 1px #aaa solid; border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;" |
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color: red;"&gt;This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

[[We]] started this new [[wiki]] at 11 October 2005. We already have '''{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}''' articles, but many of them are short [[:Category:stubs|stubs]].

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Starting points
&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Character]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Dungeon]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Item]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Message]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Monster]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Source code]]
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Post your [[wisdom]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type the name of a [[monster]], [[object]], or anything interesting from ''[[NetHack]]'', then click "{{MediaWiki:Createarticle}}". Use lowercase letters for [[scroll of identify]], but capitalise [[Amulet of Yendor]].&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=create
&lt;/inputbox&gt;

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Search with [[dexterity]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type something into the box, then click "{{MediaWiki:Tryexact}}" to seek the wiki page of that name, or "{{MediaWiki:Searchfulltext}}" to search all of Wikihack for that text.&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=search
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
|-
| colspan="2" style="background-color: pink; text-align: center;" |
'''EXTERNAL LINKS'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: smaller;" |
'''Wikis'''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''encyclopedia article''
* [http://roguebasin.t-o-m-e.net/index.php/NetHack RogueBasin on NetHack]
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information''
* [[Wikibooks:NetHack]] ''book of introduction''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: smaller;" |
'''The Internet'''
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [http://www.nethack.org/v343/Guidebook.html NetHack Guidebook] ''essential for beginners''
* [http://www.steelypips.org/nethack Yet Another NetHack Site] ''spoilers''
* [http://dudley.nicolaas.net Dudley's dungeon] ''the NetHack webcomic''
* [http://hispeed.no-ip.biz/dev/nh-helper/nh-helper.html HiSPeed's Nethack Helper] ''identifies items by price''
|}</text>
      <sha1>hcd04t2ny97jbh7llxz2ridk11c5bc8</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2278</id>
      <parentid>1987</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-04-11T05:56:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Add link to [[Uncyclopedia:Nethack]]; for those who want more than "It is written in the Book of ([[god]])..."</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="2582">{| border="2" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="margin: 1em 1em 1em 0; background: #f9f9f9; border: 1px #aaa solid; border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;" |
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color: red;"&gt;This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

[[We]] started this new [[wiki]] at 11 October 2005. We already have '''{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}''' articles, but many of them are short [[:Category:stubs|stubs]].

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Starting points
&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Character]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Dungeon]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Item]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Message]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Monster]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Source code]]
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Post your [[wisdom]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type the name of a [[monster]], [[object]], or anything interesting from ''[[NetHack]]'', then click "{{MediaWiki:Createarticle}}". Use lowercase letters for [[scroll of identify]], but capitalise [[Amulet of Yendor]].&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=create
&lt;/inputbox&gt;

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Search with [[dexterity]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type something into the box, then click "{{MediaWiki:Tryexact}}" to seek the wiki page of that name, or "{{MediaWiki:Searchfulltext}}" to search all of Wikihack for that text.&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=search
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
|-
| colspan="2" style="background-color: pink; text-align: center;" |
'''EXTERNAL LINKS'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: smaller;" |
'''Wikis'''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''encyclopedia article''
* [http://roguebasin.t-o-m-e.net/index.php/NetHack RogueBasin on NetHack]
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information''
* [[Wikibooks:NetHack]] ''book of introduction''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''
* [[Uncyclopedia:Nethack]] ''plot summary''
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: smaller;" |
'''The Internet'''
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [http://www.nethack.org/v343/Guidebook.html NetHack Guidebook] ''essential for beginners''
* [http://www.steelypips.org/nethack Yet Another NetHack Site] ''spoilers''
* [http://dudley.nicolaas.net Dudley's dungeon] ''the NetHack webcomic''
* [http://hispeed.no-ip.biz/dev/nh-helper/nh-helper.html HiSPeed's Nethack Helper] ''identifies items by price''
|}</text>
      <sha1>kqasm653mikwwsv46tmpoxm1ytv3ng2</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2391</id>
      <parentid>2278</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-04-17T01:32:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Add Ye Olde Nethack Bestiary to external links. I hope that I will eat poisonous monsters less often.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="2662">{| border="2" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="margin: 1em 1em 1em 0; background: #f9f9f9; border: 1px #aaa solid; border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;" |
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color: red;"&gt;This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

[[We]] started this new [[wiki]] at 11 October 2005. We already have '''{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}''' articles, but many of them are short [[:Category:stubs|stubs]].

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Starting points
&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Character]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Dungeon]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Item]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Message]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Monster]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Source code]]
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Post your [[wisdom]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type the name of a [[monster]], [[object]], or anything interesting from ''[[NetHack]]'', then click "{{MediaWiki:Createarticle}}". Use lowercase letters for [[scroll of identify]], but capitalise [[Amulet of Yendor]].&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=create
&lt;/inputbox&gt;

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Search with [[dexterity]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type something into the box, then click "{{MediaWiki:Tryexact}}" to seek the wiki page of that name, or "{{MediaWiki:Searchfulltext}}" to search all of Wikihack for that text.&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=search
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
|-
| colspan="2" style="background-color: pink; text-align: center;" |
'''EXTERNAL LINKS'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: smaller;" |
'''Wikis'''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''encyclopedia article''
* [http://roguebasin.t-o-m-e.net/index.php/NetHack RogueBasin on NetHack]
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information''
* [[Wikibooks:NetHack]] ''book of introduction''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''
* [[Uncyclopedia:Nethack]] ''plot summary''
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: smaller;" |
'''The Internet'''
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [http://www.nethack.org/v343/Guidebook.html NetHack Guidebook] ''essential for beginners''
* [http://www.steelypips.org/nethack Yet Another NetHack Site] ''spoilers''
* [http://www.cim.mcgill.ca/~simra/nhtohtml/html/] ''Ye Olde Nethack Bestiary''
* [http://dudley.nicolaas.net Dudley's dungeon] ''the NetHack webcomic''
* [http://hispeed.no-ip.biz/dev/nh-helper/nh-helper.html HiSPeed's Nethack Helper] ''identifies items by price''
|}</text>
      <sha1>a3uomenn0auplvmsru4407hwkdd8mi8</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2406</id>
      <parentid>2391</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-04-18T00:40:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>formatting</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="2675">{| border="2" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="margin: 1em 1em 1em 0; background: #f9f9f9; border: 1px #aaa solid; border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;" |
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color: red;"&gt;This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

[[We]] started this new [[wiki]] at 11 October 2005. We already have '''{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}''' articles, but many of them are short [[:Category:stubs|stubs]].

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Starting points
&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Character]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Dungeon]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Item]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Message]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Monster]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Source code]]
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Post your [[wisdom]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type the name of a [[monster]], [[object]], or anything interesting from ''[[NetHack]]'', then click "{{MediaWiki:Createarticle}}". Use lowercase letters for [[scroll of identify]], but capitalise [[Amulet of Yendor]].&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=create
&lt;/inputbox&gt;

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Search with [[dexterity]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type something into the box, then click "{{MediaWiki:Tryexact}}" to seek the wiki page of that name, or "{{MediaWiki:Searchfulltext}}" to search all of Wikihack for that text.&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=search
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
|-
| colspan="2" style="background-color: pink; text-align: center;" |
'''EXTERNAL LINKS'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: smaller;" |
'''Wikis'''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''encyclopedia article''
* [http://roguebasin.t-o-m-e.net/index.php/NetHack RogueBasin on NetHack]
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information''
* [[Wikibooks:NetHack]] ''book of introduction''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''
* [[Uncyclopedia:Nethack]] ''plot summary''
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: smaller;" |
'''The Internet'''
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [http://www.nethack.org/v343/Guidebook.html NetHack Guidebook] ''essential for beginners''
* [http://www.steelypips.org/nethack Yet Another NetHack Site] ''spoilers''
* [http://www.cim.mcgill.ca/~simra/nhtohtml/html/ Ye Olde Nethack Bestiary] ''monster data''
* [http://dudley.nicolaas.net Dudley's dungeon] ''the NetHack webcomic''
* [http://hispeed.no-ip.biz/dev/nh-helper/nh-helper.html HiSPeed's Nethack Helper] ''identifies items by price''
|}</text>
      <sha1>c4a4bm5e36w3lphb5npxvnxt0dju18g</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2407</id>
      <parentid>2406</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-04-18T06:42:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>84.56.81.75</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Updated the new link to HiSPeed's Nethack Helper, added some info (HiSPeed)</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="2752">{| border="2" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="margin: 1em 1em 1em 0; background: #f9f9f9; border: 1px #aaa solid; border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;" |
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color: red;"&gt;This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

[[We]] started this new [[wiki]] at 11 October 2005. We already have '''{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}''' articles, but many of them are short [[:Category:stubs|stubs]].

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Starting points
&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Character]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Dungeon]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Item]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Message]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Monster]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Source code]]
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Post your [[wisdom]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type the name of a [[monster]], [[object]], or anything interesting from ''[[NetHack]]'', then click "{{MediaWiki:Createarticle}}". Use lowercase letters for [[scroll of identify]], but capitalise [[Amulet of Yendor]].&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=create
&lt;/inputbox&gt;

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Search with [[dexterity]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type something into the box, then click "{{MediaWiki:Tryexact}}" to seek the wiki page of that name, or "{{MediaWiki:Searchfulltext}}" to search all of Wikihack for that text.&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=search
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
|-
| colspan="2" style="background-color: pink; text-align: center;" |
'''EXTERNAL LINKS'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: smaller;" |
'''Wikis'''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''encyclopedia article''
* [http://roguebasin.t-o-m-e.net/index.php/NetHack RogueBasin on NetHack]
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information''
* [[Wikibooks:NetHack]] ''book of introduction''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''
* [[Uncyclopedia:Nethack]] ''plot summary''
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: smaller;" |
'''The Internet'''
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [http://www.nethack.org/v343/Guidebook.html NetHack Guidebook] ''essential for beginners''
* [http://www.steelypips.org/nethack Yet Another NetHack Site] ''spoilers''
* [http://www.cim.mcgill.ca/~simra/nhtohtml/html/ Ye Olde Nethack Bestiary] ''monster data''
* [http://dudley.nicolaas.net Dudley's dungeon] ''the NetHack webcomic''
* [http://hispeed.tty1.com/nh-helper/nh-helper/nh-helper.html HiSPeed's Nethack Helper] ''identifies items by price, lists items' properties, helps with Alchemy and Corpses for Intrinsics''
|}</text>
      <sha1>qf3p44ozkrgvlgo6ph6mhhym1vx1k8p</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2408</id>
      <parentid>2407</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-04-18T06:43:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>84.56.81.75</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Yuck, note to self: Preview before Submit! :)</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="2715">{| border="2" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="margin: 1em 1em 1em 0; background: #f9f9f9; border: 1px #aaa solid; border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;" |
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color: red;"&gt;This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

[[We]] started this new [[wiki]] at 11 October 2005. We already have '''{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}''' articles, but many of them are short [[:Category:stubs|stubs]].

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Starting points
&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Character]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Dungeon]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Item]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Message]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Monster]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Source code]]
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Post your [[wisdom]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type the name of a [[monster]], [[object]], or anything interesting from ''[[NetHack]]'', then click "{{MediaWiki:Createarticle}}". Use lowercase letters for [[scroll of identify]], but capitalise [[Amulet of Yendor]].&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=create
&lt;/inputbox&gt;

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Search with [[dexterity]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type something into the box, then click "{{MediaWiki:Tryexact}}" to seek the wiki page of that name, or "{{MediaWiki:Searchfulltext}}" to search all of Wikihack for that text.&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=search
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
|-
| colspan="2" style="background-color: pink; text-align: center;" |
'''EXTERNAL LINKS'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: smaller;" |
'''Wikis'''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''encyclopedia article''
* [http://roguebasin.t-o-m-e.net/index.php/NetHack RogueBasin on NetHack]
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information''
* [[Wikibooks:NetHack]] ''book of introduction''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''
* [[Uncyclopedia:Nethack]] ''plot summary''
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: smaller;" |
'''The Internet'''
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [http://www.nethack.org/v343/Guidebook.html NetHack Guidebook] ''essential for beginners''
* [http://www.steelypips.org/nethack Yet Another NetHack Site] ''spoilers''
* [http://www.cim.mcgill.ca/~simra/nhtohtml/html/ Ye Olde Nethack Bestiary] ''monster data''
* [http://dudley.nicolaas.net Dudley's dungeon] ''the NetHack webcomic''
* [http://hispeed.tty1.com/nh-helper/nh-helper/nh-helper.html HiSPeed's Nethack Helper] ''identifies items by price, helps with Alchemy and Intrinsics''
|}</text>
      <sha1>okmhp15lbxhy8hpgjpyp8yp0qik4jke</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2467</id>
      <parentid>2408</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-04-23T19:19:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>I link the number of articles to [[Special:Statistics]], as other wikis do.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="2738">{| border="2" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="margin: 1em 1em 1em 0; background: #f9f9f9; border: 1px #aaa solid; border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;" |
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color: red;"&gt;This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

[[We]] started this new [[wiki]] at 11 October 2005. We already have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles, but many of them are short [[:Category:stubs|stubs]].

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Starting points
&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Character]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Dungeon]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Item]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Message]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Monster]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Source code]]
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Post your [[wisdom]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type the name of a [[monster]], [[object]], or anything interesting from ''[[NetHack]]'', then click "{{MediaWiki:Createarticle}}". Use lowercase letters for [[scroll of identify]], but capitalise [[Amulet of Yendor]].&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=create
&lt;/inputbox&gt;

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Search with [[dexterity]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type something into the box, then click "{{MediaWiki:Tryexact}}" to seek the wiki page of that name, or "{{MediaWiki:Searchfulltext}}" to search all of Wikihack for that text.&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=search
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
|-
| colspan="2" style="background-color: pink; text-align: center;" |
'''EXTERNAL LINKS'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: smaller;" |
'''Wikis'''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''encyclopedia article''
* [http://roguebasin.t-o-m-e.net/index.php/NetHack RogueBasin on NetHack]
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information''
* [[Wikibooks:NetHack]] ''book of introduction''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''
* [[Uncyclopedia:Nethack]] ''plot summary''
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: smaller;" |
'''The Internet'''
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [http://www.nethack.org/v343/Guidebook.html NetHack Guidebook] ''essential for beginners''
* [http://www.steelypips.org/nethack Yet Another NetHack Site] ''spoilers''
* [http://www.cim.mcgill.ca/~simra/nhtohtml/html/ Ye Olde Nethack Bestiary] ''monster data''
* [http://dudley.nicolaas.net Dudley's dungeon] ''the NetHack webcomic''
* [http://hispeed.tty1.com/nh-helper/nh-helper/nh-helper.html HiSPeed's Nethack Helper] ''identifies items by price, helps with Alchemy and Intrinsics''
|}</text>
      <sha1>t1zlz6ejnwncsx7je7zze46pg7dvxt7</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2752</id>
      <parentid>2467</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-05-10T23:10:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>I think someone made the default inputboxes wider recently. I set the width to 20 chars, because my browser window is only so wide.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="2756">{| border="2" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="margin: 1em 1em 1em 0; background: #f9f9f9; border: 1px #aaa solid; border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;" |
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color: red;"&gt;This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

[[We]] started this new [[wiki]] at 11 October 2005. We already have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles, but many of them are short [[:Category:stubs|stubs]].

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Starting points
&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Character]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Dungeon]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Item]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Message]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Monster]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Source code]]
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Post your [[wisdom]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type the name of a [[monster]], [[object]], or anything interesting from ''[[NetHack]]'', then click "{{MediaWiki:Createarticle}}". Use lowercase letters for [[scroll of identify]], but capitalise [[Amulet of Yendor]].&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=create
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Search with [[dexterity]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type something into the box, then click "{{MediaWiki:Tryexact}}" to seek the wiki page of that name, or "{{MediaWiki:Searchfulltext}}" to search all of Wikihack for that text.&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=search
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
|-
| colspan="2" style="background-color: pink; text-align: center;" |
'''EXTERNAL LINKS'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: smaller;" |
'''Wikis'''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''encyclopedia article''
* [http://roguebasin.t-o-m-e.net/index.php/NetHack RogueBasin on NetHack]
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information''
* [[Wikibooks:NetHack]] ''book of introduction''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''
* [[Uncyclopedia:Nethack]] ''plot summary''
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: smaller;" |
'''The Internet'''
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [http://www.nethack.org/v343/Guidebook.html NetHack Guidebook] ''essential for beginners''
* [http://www.steelypips.org/nethack Yet Another NetHack Site] ''spoilers''
* [http://www.cim.mcgill.ca/~simra/nhtohtml/html/ Ye Olde Nethack Bestiary] ''monster data''
* [http://dudley.nicolaas.net Dudley's dungeon] ''the NetHack webcomic''
* [http://hispeed.tty1.com/nh-helper/nh-helper/nh-helper.html HiSPeed's Nethack Helper] ''identifies items by price, helps with Alchemy and Intrinsics''
|}</text>
      <sha1>913fkjym4jbyz9xansknt1uiorir91o</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2808</id>
      <parentid>2752</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-05-14T00:18:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>The Wikibook moved to StrategyWiki.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="2807">{| border="2" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="margin: 1em 1em 1em 0; background: #f9f9f9; border: 1px #aaa solid; border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;" |
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color: red;"&gt;This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

[[We]] started this new [[wiki]] at 11 October 2005. We already have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles, but many of them are short [[:Category:stubs|stubs]].

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Starting points
&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Character]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Dungeon]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Item]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Message]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Monster]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Source code]]
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Post your [[wisdom]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type the name of a [[monster]], [[object]], or anything interesting from ''[[NetHack]]'', then click "{{MediaWiki:Createarticle}}". Use lowercase letters for [[scroll of identify]], but capitalise [[Amulet of Yendor]].&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=create
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Search with [[dexterity]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type something into the box, then click "{{MediaWiki:Tryexact}}" to seek the wiki page of that name, or "{{MediaWiki:Searchfulltext}}" to search all of Wikihack for that text.&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=search
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
|-
| colspan="2" style="background-color: pink; text-align: center;" |
'''EXTERNAL LINKS'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: smaller;" |
'''Wikis'''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''encyclopedia article''
* [http://roguebasin.t-o-m-e.net/index.php/NetHack RogueBasin on NetHack]
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information''
* [http://strategywiki.net/wiki/NetHack StrategyWiki:NetHack] ''book of introduction and strategy''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''
* [[Uncyclopedia:Nethack]] ''plot summary''
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: smaller;" |
'''The Internet'''
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [http://www.nethack.org/v343/Guidebook.html NetHack Guidebook] ''essential for beginners''
* [http://www.steelypips.org/nethack Yet Another NetHack Site] ''spoilers''
* [http://www.cim.mcgill.ca/~simra/nhtohtml/html/ Ye Olde Nethack Bestiary] ''monster data''
* [http://dudley.nicolaas.net Dudley's dungeon] ''the NetHack webcomic''
* [http://hispeed.tty1.com/nh-helper/nh-helper/nh-helper.html HiSPeed's Nethack Helper] ''identifies items by price, helps with Alchemy and Intrinsics''
|}</text>
      <sha1>3wv6phga0rrdc90q8e8k3j7jkitiedj</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2889</id>
      <parentid>2808</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-05-20T12:43:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>larger font for external links. it was too small to be readable, really.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="2800">{| border="2" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="margin: 1em 1em 1em 0; background: #f9f9f9; border: 1px #aaa solid; border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;" |
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color: red;"&gt;This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

[[We]] started this new [[wiki]] at 11 October 2005. We already have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles, but many of them are short [[:Category:stubs|stubs]].

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Starting points
&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Character]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Dungeon]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Item]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Message]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Monster]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Source code]]
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Post your [[wisdom]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type the name of a [[monster]], [[object]], or anything interesting from ''[[NetHack]]'', then click "{{MediaWiki:Createarticle}}". Use lowercase letters for [[scroll of identify]], but capitalise [[Amulet of Yendor]].&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=create
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Search with [[dexterity]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type something into the box, then click "{{MediaWiki:Tryexact}}" to seek the wiki page of that name, or "{{MediaWiki:Searchfulltext}}" to search all of Wikihack for that text.&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=search
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
|-
| colspan="2" style="background-color: pink; text-align: center;" |
'''EXTERNAL LINKS'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: 90%;" |
'''Wikis'''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''encyclopedia article''
* [http://roguebasin.t-o-m-e.net/index.php/NetHack RogueBasin on NetHack]
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information''
* [http://strategywiki.net/wiki/NetHack StrategyWiki:NetHack] ''book of introduction and strategy''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''
* [[Uncyclopedia:Nethack]] ''plot summary''
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size:  90%;" |
'''The Internet'''
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [http://www.nethack.org/v343/Guidebook.html NetHack Guidebook] ''essential for beginners''
* [http://www.steelypips.org/nethack Yet Another NetHack Site] ''spoilers''
* [http://www.cim.mcgill.ca/~simra/nhtohtml/html/ Ye Olde Nethack Bestiary] ''monster data''
* [http://dudley.nicolaas.net Dudley's dungeon] ''the NetHack webcomic''
* [http://hispeed.tty1.com/nh-helper/nh-helper/nh-helper.html HiSPeed's Nethack Helper] ''identifies items by price, helps with Alchemy and Intrinsics''
|}</text>
      <sha1>1m0qd9trbczsm71wvfglh5own9qw3am</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>3095</id>
      <parentid>2889</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-05-29T14:58:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>How can I help?</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3119">{| border="2" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="margin: 1em 1em 1em 0; background: #f9f9f9; border: 1px #aaa solid; border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;" |
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color: red;"&gt;This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

[[We]] started this new [[wiki]] at 11 October 2005. We already have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles, but many of them are short [[:Category:stubs|stubs]].

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Starting points&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Character]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Dungeon]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Item]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Message]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Monster]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Source code]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;How can I help?&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; Create a [[Special:Wantedpages|wanted page]]
: &amp;rarr; Add links to [[Special:Deadendpages|dead-end pages]]
: &amp;rarr; Expand [[Special:Shortpages|short pages]] and [[:Category:stubs|stubs]]
: &amp;rarr; Categorize [[Special:Uncategorizedpages|uncategorized pages]]
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Post your [[wisdom]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type the name of a [[monster]], [[object]], or anything interesting from ''[[NetHack]]'', then click "{{MediaWiki:Createarticle}}". Use lowercase letters for [[scroll of identify]], but capitalise [[Amulet of Yendor]].&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=create
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Search with [[dexterity]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type something into the box, then click "{{MediaWiki:Tryexact}}" to seek the wiki page of that name, or "{{MediaWiki:Searchfulltext}}" to search all of Wikihack for that text.&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=search
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
|-
| colspan="2" style="background-color: pink; text-align: center;" |
'''EXTERNAL LINKS'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: 90%;" |
'''Wikis'''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''encyclopedia article''
* [http://roguebasin.t-o-m-e.net/index.php/NetHack RogueBasin on NetHack]
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information''
* [http://strategywiki.net/wiki/NetHack StrategyWiki:NetHack] ''book of introduction and strategy''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''
* [[Uncyclopedia:Nethack]] ''plot summary''
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size:  90%;" |
'''The Internet'''
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [http://www.nethack.org/v343/Guidebook.html NetHack Guidebook] ''essential for beginners''
* [http://www.steelypips.org/nethack Yet Another NetHack Site] ''spoilers''
* [http://www.cim.mcgill.ca/~simra/nhtohtml/html/ Ye Olde Nethack Bestiary] ''monster data''
* [http://dudley.nicolaas.net Dudley's dungeon] ''the NetHack webcomic''
* [http://hispeed.tty1.com/nh-helper/nh-helper/nh-helper.html HiSPeed's Nethack Helper] ''identifies items by price, helps with Alchemy and Intrinsics''
|}</text>
      <sha1>29qe1cebjo2q5yeu95vc3pjgrfeacq2</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>3125</id>
      <parentid>3095</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-05-30T21:07:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>linked [[Wikihack:Categories]] to "How can I help?" and wrote a description</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3220">{| border="2" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="margin: 1em 1em 1em 0; background: #f9f9f9; border: 1px #aaa solid; border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;" |
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color: red;"&gt;This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

[[We]] started this new [[wiki]] at 11 October 2005. We already have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles, but many of them are short [[:Category:stubs|stubs]].

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Starting points&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Character]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Dungeon]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Item]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Message]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Monster]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Source code]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;How can I help?&lt;/div&gt;
Would you like to help but do not know where to begin? Here are a few ideas:
: &amp;rarr; Create a [[Special:Wantedpages|wanted page]]
: &amp;rarr; Add links to [[Special:Deadendpages|dead-end pages]]
: &amp;rarr; Expand [[Special:Shortpages|short pages]] and [[:Category:stubs|stubs]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Wikihack:Categories|Categorize]] [[Special:Uncategorizedpages|uncategorized pages]]
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Post your [[wisdom]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type the name of a [[monster]], [[object]], or anything interesting from ''[[NetHack]]'', then click "{{MediaWiki:Createarticle}}". Use lowercase letters for [[scroll of identify]], but capitalise [[Amulet of Yendor]].&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=create
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Search with [[dexterity]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type something into the box, then click "{{MediaWiki:Tryexact}}" to seek the wiki page of that name, or "{{MediaWiki:Searchfulltext}}" to search all of Wikihack for that text.&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=search
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
|-
| colspan="2" style="background-color: pink; text-align: center;" |
'''EXTERNAL LINKS'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: 90%;" |
'''Wikis'''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''encyclopedia article''
* [http://roguebasin.t-o-m-e.net/index.php/NetHack RogueBasin on NetHack]
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information''
* [http://strategywiki.net/wiki/NetHack StrategyWiki:NetHack] ''book of introduction and strategy''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''
* [[Uncyclopedia:Nethack]] ''plot summary''
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size:  90%;" |
'''The Internet'''
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [http://www.nethack.org/v343/Guidebook.html NetHack Guidebook] ''essential for beginners''
* [http://www.steelypips.org/nethack Yet Another NetHack Site] ''spoilers''
* [http://www.cim.mcgill.ca/~simra/nhtohtml/html/ Ye Olde Nethack Bestiary] ''monster data''
* [http://dudley.nicolaas.net Dudley's dungeon] ''the NetHack webcomic''
* [http://hispeed.tty1.com/nh-helper/nh-helper/nh-helper.html HiSPeed's Nethack Helper] ''identifies items by price, helps with Alchemy and Intrinsics''
|}</text>
      <sha1>syxylamlf65ca74vp9qbj9hsowmulyj</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>3341</id>
      <parentid>3125</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-06-06T17:57:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>A link to NetHack@Everything2.com ... which contains some descriptions of the game and its history.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3297">{| border="2" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="margin: 1em 1em 1em 0; background: #f9f9f9; border: 1px #aaa solid; border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;" |
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color: red;"&gt;This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

[[We]] started this new [[wiki]] at 11 October 2005. We already have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles, but many of them are short [[:Category:stubs|stubs]].

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Starting points&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Character]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Dungeon]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Item]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Message]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Monster]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Source code]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;How can I help?&lt;/div&gt;
Would you like to help but do not know where to begin? Here are a few ideas:
: &amp;rarr; Create a [[Special:Wantedpages|wanted page]]
: &amp;rarr; Add links to [[Special:Deadendpages|dead-end pages]]
: &amp;rarr; Expand [[Special:Shortpages|short pages]] and [[:Category:stubs|stubs]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Wikihack:Categories|Categorize]] [[Special:Uncategorizedpages|uncategorized pages]]
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Post your [[wisdom]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type the name of a [[monster]], [[object]], or anything interesting from ''[[NetHack]]'', then click "{{MediaWiki:Createarticle}}". Use lowercase letters for [[scroll of identify]], but capitalise [[Amulet of Yendor]].&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=create
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Search with [[dexterity]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type something into the box, then click "{{MediaWiki:Tryexact}}" to seek the wiki page of that name, or "{{MediaWiki:Searchfulltext}}" to search all of Wikihack for that text.&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=search
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
|-
| colspan="2" style="background-color: pink; text-align: center;" |
'''EXTERNAL LINKS'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: 90%;" |
'''Wikis'''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''encyclopedia article''
* [http://roguebasin.t-o-m-e.net/index.php/NetHack RogueBasin on NetHack]
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information''
* [http://strategywiki.net/wiki/NetHack StrategyWiki:NetHack] ''book of introduction and strategy''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''
* [[Uncyclopedia:Nethack]] ''plot summary''
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size:  90%;" |
'''The Internet'''
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [http://www.nethack.org/v343/Guidebook.html NetHack Guidebook] ''essential for beginners''
* [http://www.steelypips.org/nethack Yet Another NetHack Site] ''spoilers''
* [http://www.cim.mcgill.ca/~simra/nhtohtml/html/ Ye Olde Nethack Bestiary] ''monster data''
* [http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=Nethack NetHack@Everything2.com]
* [http://dudley.nicolaas.net Dudley's dungeon] ''the NetHack webcomic''
* [http://hispeed.tty1.com/nh-helper/nh-helper/nh-helper.html HiSPeed's Nethack Helper] ''identifies items by price, helps with Alchemy and Intrinsics''
|}</text>
      <sha1>ie04pre47k7u1d4g9dieyy59sy1kfpl</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>3452</id>
      <parentid>3341</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-06-08T04:51:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>PraetorFenix</username>
        <id>649</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>List of Nethack Spoilers - link</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3429">{| border="2" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="margin: 1em 1em 1em 0; background: #f9f9f9; border: 1px #aaa solid; border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;" |
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color: red;"&gt;This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

[[We]] started this new [[wiki]] at 11 October 2005. We already have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles, but many of them are short [[:Category:stubs|stubs]].

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Starting points&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Character]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Dungeon]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Item]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Message]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Monster]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Source code]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;How can I help?&lt;/div&gt;
Would you like to help but do not know where to begin? Here are a few ideas:
: &amp;rarr; Create a [[Special:Wantedpages|wanted page]]
: &amp;rarr; Add links to [[Special:Deadendpages|dead-end pages]]
: &amp;rarr; Expand [[Special:Shortpages|short pages]] and [[:Category:stubs|stubs]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Wikihack:Categories|Categorize]] [[Special:Uncategorizedpages|uncategorized pages]]
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Post your [[wisdom]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type the name of a [[monster]], [[object]], or anything interesting from ''[[NetHack]]'', then click "{{MediaWiki:Createarticle}}". Use lowercase letters for [[scroll of identify]], but capitalise [[Amulet of Yendor]].&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=create
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Search with [[dexterity]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type something into the box, then click "{{MediaWiki:Tryexact}}" to seek the wiki page of that name, or "{{MediaWiki:Searchfulltext}}" to search all of Wikihack for that text.&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=search
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
|-
| colspan="2" style="background-color: pink; text-align: center;" |
'''EXTERNAL LINKS'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: 90%;" |
'''Wikis'''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''encyclopedia article''
* [http://roguebasin.t-o-m-e.net/index.php/NetHack RogueBasin on NetHack]
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information''
* [http://strategywiki.net/wiki/NetHack StrategyWiki:NetHack] ''book of introduction and strategy''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''
* [[Uncyclopedia:Nethack]] ''plot summary''
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size:  90%;" |
'''The Internet'''
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [http://www.nethack.org/v343/Guidebook.html NetHack Guidebook] ''essential for beginners''
* [http://www.steelypips.org/nethack Yet Another NetHack Site] ''spoilers''
* [http://www.cim.mcgill.ca/~simra/nhtohtml/html/ Ye Olde Nethack Bestiary] ''monster data''
* [http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=Nethack NetHack@Everything2.com]
* [http://dudley.nicolaas.net Dudley's dungeon] ''the NetHack webcomic''
* [http://hispeed.tty1.com/nh-helper/nh-helper/nh-helper.html HiSPeed's Nethack Helper] ''identifies items by price, helps with Alchemy and Intrinsics''
* [http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~eva/nethack/spoilerlist.html List of Nethack Spoilers] - A comprehensive list of NetHack spoilers
|}</text>
      <sha1>ff75fc5fgr231o2nsxcmhp4pysi36ma</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>3800</id>
      <parentid>3452</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-06-11T23:30:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>: &amp;rarr; If you are a ''source diver'', add and comment some [[source code]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3506">{| border="2" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="margin: 1em 1em 1em 0; background: #f9f9f9; border: 1px #aaa solid; border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;" |
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color: red;"&gt;This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

[[We]] started this new [[wiki]] at 11 October 2005. We already have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles, but many of them are short [[:Category:stubs|stubs]].

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Starting points&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Character]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Dungeon]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Item]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Message]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Monster]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Source code]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;How can I help?&lt;/div&gt;
Would you like to help but do not know where to begin? Here are a few ideas:
: &amp;rarr; Create a [[Special:Wantedpages|wanted page]]
: &amp;rarr; Add links to [[Special:Deadendpages|dead-end pages]]
: &amp;rarr; Expand [[Special:Shortpages|short pages]] and [[:Category:stubs|stubs]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Wikihack:Categories|Categorize]] [[Special:Uncategorizedpages|uncategorized pages]]
: &amp;rarr; If you are a ''source diver'', add and comment some [[source code]]
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Post your [[wisdom]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type the name of a [[monster]], [[object]], or anything interesting from ''[[NetHack]]'', then click "{{MediaWiki:Createarticle}}". Use lowercase letters for [[scroll of identify]], but capitalise [[Amulet of Yendor]].&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=create
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Search with [[dexterity]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type something into the box, then click "{{MediaWiki:Tryexact}}" to seek the wiki page of that name, or "{{MediaWiki:Searchfulltext}}" to search all of Wikihack for that text.&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=search
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
|-
| colspan="2" style="background-color: pink; text-align: center;" |
'''EXTERNAL LINKS'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: 90%;" |
'''Wikis'''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''encyclopedia article''
* [http://roguebasin.t-o-m-e.net/index.php/NetHack RogueBasin on NetHack]
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information''
* [http://strategywiki.net/wiki/NetHack StrategyWiki:NetHack] ''book of introduction and strategy''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''
* [[Uncyclopedia:Nethack]] ''plot summary''
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size:  90%;" |
'''The Internet'''
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [http://www.nethack.org/v343/Guidebook.html NetHack Guidebook] ''essential for beginners''
* [http://www.steelypips.org/nethack Yet Another NetHack Site] ''spoilers''
* [http://www.cim.mcgill.ca/~simra/nhtohtml/html/ Ye Olde Nethack Bestiary] ''monster data''
* [http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=Nethack NetHack@Everything2.com]
* [http://dudley.nicolaas.net Dudley's dungeon] ''the NetHack webcomic''
* [http://hispeed.tty1.com/nh-helper/nh-helper/nh-helper.html HiSPeed's Nethack Helper] ''identifies items by price, helps with Alchemy and Intrinsics''
* [http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~eva/nethack/spoilerlist.html List of Nethack Spoilers] - A comprehensive list of NetHack spoilers
|}</text>
      <sha1>8xrp9rb9p8eqq7i69cjq98lej3dn5ti</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>3880</id>
      <parentid>3800</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-06-15T06:15:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>PraetorFenix</username>
        <id>649</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Ye Olde Nethack Bestiary - url update</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3539">{| border="2" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="margin: 1em 1em 1em 0; background: #f9f9f9; border: 1px #aaa solid; border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;" |
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color: red;"&gt;This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

[[We]] started this new [[wiki]] at 11 October 2005. We already have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles, but many of them are short [[:Category:stubs|stubs]].

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Starting points&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Character]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Dungeon]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Item]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Message]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Monster]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Source code]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;How can I help?&lt;/div&gt;
Would you like to help but do not know where to begin? Here are a few ideas:
: &amp;rarr; Create a [[Special:Wantedpages|wanted page]]
: &amp;rarr; Add links to [[Special:Deadendpages|dead-end pages]]
: &amp;rarr; Expand [[Special:Shortpages|short pages]] and [[:Category:stubs|stubs]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Wikihack:Categories|Categorize]] [[Special:Uncategorizedpages|uncategorized pages]]
: &amp;rarr; If you are a ''source diver'', add and comment some [[source code]]
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Post your [[wisdom]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type the name of a [[monster]], [[object]], or anything interesting from ''[[NetHack]]'', then click "{{MediaWiki:Createarticle}}". Use lowercase letters for [[scroll of identify]], but capitalise [[Amulet of Yendor]].&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=create
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Search with [[dexterity]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type something into the box, then click "{{MediaWiki:Tryexact}}" to seek the wiki page of that name, or "{{MediaWiki:Searchfulltext}}" to search all of Wikihack for that text.&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=search
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
|-
| colspan="2" style="background-color: pink; text-align: center;" |
'''EXTERNAL LINKS'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: 90%;" |
'''Wikis'''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''encyclopedia article''
* [http://roguebasin.t-o-m-e.net/index.php/NetHack RogueBasin on NetHack]
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information''
* [http://strategywiki.net/wiki/NetHack StrategyWiki:NetHack] ''book of introduction and strategy''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''
* [[Uncyclopedia:Nethack]] ''plot summary''
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size:  90%;" |
'''The Internet'''
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [http://www.nethack.org/v343/Guidebook.html NetHack Guidebook] ''essential for beginners''
* [http://www.steelypips.org/nethack Yet Another NetHack Site] ''spoilers''
* [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/html/index.html Ye Olde Nethack Bestiary] A comprehensive list of NetHack '''Monsters'''
* [http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=Nethack NetHack@Everything2.com]
* [http://dudley.nicolaas.net Dudley's dungeon] ''the NetHack webcomic''
* [http://hispeed.tty1.com/nh-helper/nh-helper/nh-helper.html HiSPeed's Nethack Helper] ''identifies items by price, helps with Alchemy and Intrinsics''
* [http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~eva/nethack/spoilerlist.html List of Nethack Spoilers] - A comprehensive list of NetHack spoilers
|}</text>
      <sha1>fupojppr49gtjxn8ecdawze196ax1c0</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>4174</id>
      <parentid>3880</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-06-22T22:29:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>link to [[Ask an expert]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3610">{| border="2" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="margin: 1em 1em 1em 0; background: #f9f9f9; border: 1px #aaa solid; border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;" |
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color: red;"&gt;This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

[[We]] started this new [[wiki]] at 11 October 2005. We already have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles, but many of them are short [[:Category:stubs|stubs]].

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Starting points&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Character]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Dungeon]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Item]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Message]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Monster]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Source code]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Stuck?&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Ask an expert]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;How can I help?&lt;/div&gt;
Would you like to help but do not know where to begin? Here are a few ideas:
: &amp;rarr; Create a [[Special:Wantedpages|wanted page]]
: &amp;rarr; Add links to [[Special:Deadendpages|dead-end pages]]
: &amp;rarr; Expand [[Special:Shortpages|short pages]] and [[:Category:stubs|stubs]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Wikihack:Categories|Categorize]] [[Special:Uncategorizedpages|uncategorized pages]]
: &amp;rarr; If you are a ''source diver'', add and comment some [[source code]]
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Post your [[wisdom]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type the name of a [[monster]], [[object]], or anything interesting from ''[[NetHack]]'', then click "{{MediaWiki:Createarticle}}". Use lowercase letters for [[scroll of identify]], but capitalise [[Amulet of Yendor]].&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=create
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Search with [[dexterity]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type something into the box, then click "{{MediaWiki:Tryexact}}" to seek the wiki page of that name, or "{{MediaWiki:Searchfulltext}}" to search all of Wikihack for that text.&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=search
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
|-
| colspan="2" style="background-color: pink; text-align: center;" |
'''EXTERNAL LINKS'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: 90%;" |
'''Wikis'''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''encyclopedia article''
* [http://roguebasin.t-o-m-e.net/index.php/NetHack RogueBasin on NetHack]
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information''
* [http://strategywiki.net/wiki/NetHack StrategyWiki:NetHack] ''book of introduction and strategy''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''
* [[Uncyclopedia:Nethack]] ''plot summary''
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size:  90%;" |
'''The Internet'''
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [http://www.nethack.org/v343/Guidebook.html NetHack Guidebook] ''essential for beginners''
* [http://www.steelypips.org/nethack Yet Another NetHack Site] ''spoilers''
* [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/html/index.html Ye Olde Nethack Bestiary] A comprehensive list of NetHack '''Monsters'''
* [http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=Nethack NetHack@Everything2.com]
* [http://dudley.nicolaas.net Dudley's dungeon] ''the NetHack webcomic''
* [http://hispeed.tty1.com/nh-helper/nh-helper/nh-helper.html HiSPeed's Nethack Helper] ''identifies items by price, helps with Alchemy and Intrinsics''
* [http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~eva/nethack/spoilerlist.html List of Nethack Spoilers] - A comprehensive list of NetHack spoilers
|}</text>
      <sha1>r8gbzs2jaicgiyc8r8izu88jb85o0s0</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>4177</id>
      <parentid>4174</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-06-22T22:59:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>82.76.214.105</ip>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3634">{| border="2" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="margin: 1em 1em 1em 0; background: #f9f9f9; border: 1px #aaa solid; border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;" |
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color: red;"&gt;This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

[[We]] started this new [[wiki]] at 11 October 2005. We already have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles, but many of them are short [[:Category:stubs|stubs]].

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Starting points&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Character]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Dungeon]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Item]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Message]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Monster]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Source code]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Stuck?&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Ask an expert]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;How can I help?&lt;/div&gt;
Would you like to help but do not know where to begin? Here are a few ideas:
: &amp;rarr; Create a [[Special:Wantedpages|wanted page]]
: &amp;rarr; Add links to [[Special:Deadendpages|dead-end pages]]
: &amp;rarr; Expand [[Special:Shortpages|short pages]] and [[:Category:stubs|stubs]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Wikihack:Categories|Categorize]] [[Special:Uncategorizedpages|uncategorized pages]]
: &amp;rarr; If you are a ''source diver'', add and comment some [[source code]]
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Post your [[wisdom]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type the name of a [[monster]], [[object]], or anything interesting from ''[[NetHack]]'', then click "{{MediaWiki:Createarticle}}". Use lowercase letters for [[scroll of identify]], but capitalise [[Amulet of Yendor]].&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=create
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Search with [[dexterity]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type something into the box, then click "{{MediaWiki:Tryexact}}" to seek the wiki page of that name, or "{{MediaWiki:Searchfulltext}}" to search all of Wikihack for that text.&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=search
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
|-
| colspan="2" style="background-color: pink; text-align: center;" |
'''EXTERNAL LINKS'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: 90%;" |
'''Wikis'''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''encyclopedia article''
* [http://roguebasin.t-o-m-e.net/index.php/NetHack RogueBasin on NetHack]
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information''
* [http://strategywiki.net/wiki/NetHack StrategyWiki:NetHack] ''book of introduction and strategy''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''
* [[Uncyclopedia:Nethack]] ''plot summary''
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size:  90%;" |
'''The Internet'''
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [http://www.nethack.org/v343/Guidebook.html NetHack Guidebook] ''essential for beginners''
* [http://www.steelypips.org/nethack Yet Another NetHack Site] ''spoilers''
* [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/html/index.html Ye Olde Nethack Bestiary] A comprehensive list of NetHack '''Monsters'''
* [http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=Nethack NetHack@Everything2.com]
* [http://dudley.nicolaas.net Dudley's dungeon] ''the NetHack webcomic''
* [http://hispeed.tty1.com/nh-helper/nh-helper/nh-helper.html HiSPeed's Nethack Helper] ''identifies items by price, helps with Alchemy and Intrinsics''
* [http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~eva/nethack/spoilerlist.html List of Nethack Spoilers] - A comprehensive list of NetHack spoilers
|}
45398597581550663849691</text>
      <sha1>40oyqdofl9q6iitkhkaoha0sdlz6hys</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>4180</id>
      <parentid>4177</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-06-23T14:18:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>PraetorFenix</username>
        <id>649</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>revert spam</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3610">{| border="2" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="margin: 1em 1em 1em 0; background: #f9f9f9; border: 1px #aaa solid; border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;" |
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color: red;"&gt;This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

[[We]] started this new [[wiki]] at 11 October 2005. We already have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles, but many of them are short [[:Category:stubs|stubs]].

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Starting points&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Character]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Dungeon]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Item]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Message]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Monster]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Source code]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Stuck?&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Ask an expert]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;How can I help?&lt;/div&gt;
Would you like to help but do not know where to begin? Here are a few ideas:
: &amp;rarr; Create a [[Special:Wantedpages|wanted page]]
: &amp;rarr; Add links to [[Special:Deadendpages|dead-end pages]]
: &amp;rarr; Expand [[Special:Shortpages|short pages]] and [[:Category:stubs|stubs]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Wikihack:Categories|Categorize]] [[Special:Uncategorizedpages|uncategorized pages]]
: &amp;rarr; If you are a ''source diver'', add and comment some [[source code]]
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Post your [[wisdom]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type the name of a [[monster]], [[object]], or anything interesting from ''[[NetHack]]'', then click "{{MediaWiki:Createarticle}}". Use lowercase letters for [[scroll of identify]], but capitalise [[Amulet of Yendor]].&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=create
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Search with [[dexterity]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type something into the box, then click "{{MediaWiki:Tryexact}}" to seek the wiki page of that name, or "{{MediaWiki:Searchfulltext}}" to search all of Wikihack for that text.&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=search
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
|-
| colspan="2" style="background-color: pink; text-align: center;" |
'''EXTERNAL LINKS'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: 90%;" |
'''Wikis'''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''encyclopedia article''
* [http://roguebasin.t-o-m-e.net/index.php/NetHack RogueBasin on NetHack]
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information''
* [http://strategywiki.net/wiki/NetHack StrategyWiki:NetHack] ''book of introduction and strategy''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''
* [[Uncyclopedia:Nethack]] ''plot summary''
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size:  90%;" |
'''The Internet'''
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [http://www.nethack.org/v343/Guidebook.html NetHack Guidebook] ''essential for beginners''
* [http://www.steelypips.org/nethack Yet Another NetHack Site] ''spoilers''
* [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/html/index.html Ye Olde Nethack Bestiary] A comprehensive list of NetHack '''Monsters'''
* [http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=Nethack NetHack@Everything2.com]
* [http://dudley.nicolaas.net Dudley's dungeon] ''the NetHack webcomic''
* [http://hispeed.tty1.com/nh-helper/nh-helper/nh-helper.html HiSPeed's Nethack Helper] ''identifies items by price, helps with Alchemy and Intrinsics''
* [http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~eva/nethack/spoilerlist.html List of Nethack Spoilers] - A comprehensive list of NetHack spoilers
|}</text>
      <sha1>r8gbzs2jaicgiyc8r8izu88jb85o0s0</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>4249</id>
      <parentid>4180</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-06-25T19:26:24Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>mentioned style guide on Main Page - new editors should read it</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3672">{| border="2" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="margin: 1em 1em 1em 0; background: #f9f9f9; border: 1px #aaa solid; border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;" |
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color: red;"&gt;This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

[[We]] started this new [[wiki]] at 11 October 2005. We already have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles, but many of them are short [[:Category:stubs|stubs]].

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Starting points&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Character]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Dungeon]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Item]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Message]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Monster]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Source code]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Stuck?&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Ask an expert]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;How can I help?&lt;/div&gt;
Would you like to help but do not know where to begin? Here are a few ideas:
: &amp;rarr; First, read the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]
: &amp;rarr; Create a [[Special:Wantedpages|wanted page]]
: &amp;rarr; Add links to [[Special:Deadendpages|dead-end pages]]
: &amp;rarr; Expand [[Special:Shortpages|short pages]] and [[:Category:stubs|stubs]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Wikihack:Categories|Categorize]] [[Special:Uncategorizedpages|uncategorized pages]]
: &amp;rarr; If you are a ''source diver'', add and comment some [[source code]]
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Post your [[wisdom]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type the name of a [[monster]], [[object]], or anything interesting from ''[[NetHack]]'', then click "{{MediaWiki:Createarticle}}". Use lowercase letters for [[scroll of identify]], but capitalise [[Amulet of Yendor]].&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=create
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Search with [[dexterity]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type something into the box, then click "{{MediaWiki:Tryexact}}" to seek the wiki page of that name, or "{{MediaWiki:Searchfulltext}}" to search all of Wikihack for that text.&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=search
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
|-
| colspan="2" style="background-color: pink; text-align: center;" |
'''EXTERNAL LINKS'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: 90%;" |
'''Wikis'''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''encyclopedia article''
* [http://roguebasin.t-o-m-e.net/index.php/NetHack RogueBasin on NetHack]
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information''
* [http://strategywiki.net/wiki/NetHack StrategyWiki:NetHack] ''book of introduction and strategy''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''
* [[Uncyclopedia:Nethack]] ''plot summary''
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size:  90%;" |
'''The Internet'''
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [http://www.nethack.org/v343/Guidebook.html NetHack Guidebook] ''essential for beginners''
* [http://www.steelypips.org/nethack Yet Another NetHack Site] ''spoilers''
* [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/html/index.html Ye Olde Nethack Bestiary] A comprehensive list of NetHack '''Monsters'''
* [http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=Nethack NetHack@Everything2.com]
* [http://dudley.nicolaas.net Dudley's dungeon] ''the NetHack webcomic''
* [http://hispeed.tty1.com/nh-helper/nh-helper/nh-helper.html HiSPeed's Nethack Helper] ''identifies items by price, helps with Alchemy and Intrinsics''
* [http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~eva/nethack/spoilerlist.html List of Nethack Spoilers] - A comprehensive list of NetHack spoilers
|}</text>
      <sha1>c9iy0bydxd3ntll0get081d3anqysnr</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>4364</id>
      <parentid>4249</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-06-30T18:35:01Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>As [[Special:Statistics]] now redirects to Wikia Statistics, change the link to point straight to nethack.wikia tables.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3708">{| border="2" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="margin: 1em 1em 1em 0; background: #f9f9f9; border: 1px #aaa solid; border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;" |
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color: red;"&gt;This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

[[We]] started this new [[wiki]] at 11 October 2005. We already have '''[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles, but many of them are short [[:Category:stubs|stubs]].

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Starting points&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Character]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Dungeon]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Item]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Message]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Monster]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Source code]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Stuck?&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Ask an expert]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;How can I help?&lt;/div&gt;
Would you like to help but do not know where to begin? Here are a few ideas:
: &amp;rarr; First, read the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]
: &amp;rarr; Create a [[Special:Wantedpages|wanted page]]
: &amp;rarr; Add links to [[Special:Deadendpages|dead-end pages]]
: &amp;rarr; Expand [[Special:Shortpages|short pages]] and [[:Category:stubs|stubs]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Wikihack:Categories|Categorize]] [[Special:Uncategorizedpages|uncategorized pages]]
: &amp;rarr; If you are a ''source diver'', add and comment some [[source code]]
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Post your [[wisdom]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type the name of a [[monster]], [[object]], or anything interesting from ''[[NetHack]]'', then click "{{MediaWiki:Createarticle}}". Use lowercase letters for [[scroll of identify]], but capitalise [[Amulet of Yendor]].&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=create
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Search with [[dexterity]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type something into the box, then click "{{MediaWiki:Tryexact}}" to seek the wiki page of that name, or "{{MediaWiki:Searchfulltext}}" to search all of Wikihack for that text.&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=search
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
|-
| colspan="2" style="background-color: pink; text-align: center;" |
'''EXTERNAL LINKS'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: 90%;" |
'''Wikis'''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''encyclopedia article''
* [http://roguebasin.t-o-m-e.net/index.php/NetHack RogueBasin on NetHack]
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information''
* [http://strategywiki.net/wiki/NetHack StrategyWiki:NetHack] ''book of introduction and strategy''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''
* [[Uncyclopedia:Nethack]] ''plot summary''
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size:  90%;" |
'''The Internet'''
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [http://www.nethack.org/v343/Guidebook.html NetHack Guidebook] ''essential for beginners''
* [http://www.steelypips.org/nethack Yet Another NetHack Site] ''spoilers''
* [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/html/index.html Ye Olde Nethack Bestiary] A comprehensive list of NetHack '''Monsters'''
* [http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=Nethack NetHack@Everything2.com]
* [http://dudley.nicolaas.net Dudley's dungeon] ''the NetHack webcomic''
* [http://hispeed.tty1.com/nh-helper/nh-helper/nh-helper.html HiSPeed's Nethack Helper] ''identifies items by price, helps with Alchemy and Intrinsics''
* [http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~eva/nethack/spoilerlist.html List of Nethack Spoilers] - A comprehensive list of NetHack spoilers
|}</text>
      <sha1>n7t1qtbu73kmqaxw3dlp0l0tddo0ult</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>4401</id>
      <parentid>4364</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-01T21:42:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Try adding the Main Page to [[Category:Articles]]. There had been no link from the Main Page into our category hierarchy.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3731">{| border="2" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="margin: 1em 1em 1em 0; background: #f9f9f9; border: 1px #aaa solid; border-collapse: collapse; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;" |
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color: red;"&gt;This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

[[We]] started this new [[wiki]] at 11 October 2005. We already have '''[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles, but many of them are short [[:Category:stubs|stubs]].

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Starting points&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Character]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Dungeon]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Item]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Message]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Monster]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Source code]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Stuck?&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Ask an expert]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;How can I help?&lt;/div&gt;
Would you like to help but do not know where to begin? Here are a few ideas:
: &amp;rarr; First, read the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]
: &amp;rarr; Create a [[Special:Wantedpages|wanted page]]
: &amp;rarr; Add links to [[Special:Deadendpages|dead-end pages]]
: &amp;rarr; Expand [[Special:Shortpages|short pages]] and [[:Category:stubs|stubs]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Wikihack:Categories|Categorize]] [[Special:Uncategorizedpages|uncategorized pages]]
: &amp;rarr; If you are a ''source diver'', add and comment some [[source code]]
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Post your [[wisdom]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type the name of a [[monster]], [[object]], or anything interesting from ''[[NetHack]]'', then click "{{MediaWiki:Createarticle}}". Use lowercase letters for [[scroll of identify]], but capitalise [[Amulet of Yendor]].&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=create
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Search with [[dexterity]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type something into the box, then click "{{MediaWiki:Tryexact}}" to seek the wiki page of that name, or "{{MediaWiki:Searchfulltext}}" to search all of Wikihack for that text.&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=search
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
|-
| colspan="2" style="background-color: pink; text-align: center;" |
'''EXTERNAL LINKS'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: 90%;" |
'''Wikis'''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''encyclopedia article''
* [http://roguebasin.t-o-m-e.net/index.php/NetHack RogueBasin on NetHack]
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information''
* [http://strategywiki.net/wiki/NetHack StrategyWiki:NetHack] ''book of introduction and strategy''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''
* [[Uncyclopedia:Nethack]] ''plot summary''
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size:  90%;" |
'''The Internet'''
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [http://www.nethack.org/v343/Guidebook.html NetHack Guidebook] ''essential for beginners''
* [http://www.steelypips.org/nethack Yet Another NetHack Site] ''spoilers''
* [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/html/index.html Ye Olde Nethack Bestiary] A comprehensive list of NetHack '''Monsters'''
* [http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=Nethack NetHack@Everything2.com]
* [http://dudley.nicolaas.net Dudley's dungeon] ''the NetHack webcomic''
* [http://hispeed.tty1.com/nh-helper/nh-helper/nh-helper.html HiSPeed's Nethack Helper] ''identifies items by price, helps with Alchemy and Intrinsics''
* [http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~eva/nethack/spoilerlist.html List of Nethack Spoilers] - A comprehensive list of NetHack spoilers
|}

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>c7054vxjku1fvimuvcc9yqigdx5ts6c</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>4404</id>
      <parentid>4401</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-01T22:40:04Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>On table: use class="wikitable". Also widen table to 100% width.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3624">{| class="wikitable" style="width: 100%; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;" |
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color: red;"&gt;This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

[[We]] started this new [[wiki]] at 11 October 2005. We already have '''[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles, but many of them are short [[:Category:stubs|stubs]].

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Starting points&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Character]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Dungeon]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Item]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Message]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Monster]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Source code]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Stuck?&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Ask an expert]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;How can I help?&lt;/div&gt;
Would you like to help but do not know where to begin? Here are a few ideas:
: &amp;rarr; First, read the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]
: &amp;rarr; Create a [[Special:Wantedpages|wanted page]]
: &amp;rarr; Add links to [[Special:Deadendpages|dead-end pages]]
: &amp;rarr; Expand [[Special:Shortpages|short pages]] and [[:Category:stubs|stubs]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Wikihack:Categories|Categorize]] [[Special:Uncategorizedpages|uncategorized pages]]
: &amp;rarr; If you are a ''source diver'', add and comment some [[source code]]
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Post your [[wisdom]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type the name of a [[monster]], [[object]], or anything interesting from ''[[NetHack]]'', then click "{{MediaWiki:Createarticle}}". Use lowercase letters for [[scroll of identify]], but capitalise [[Amulet of Yendor]].&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=create
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Search with [[dexterity]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type something into the box, then click "{{MediaWiki:Tryexact}}" to seek the wiki page of that name, or "{{MediaWiki:Searchfulltext}}" to search all of Wikihack for that text.&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=search
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
|-
| colspan="2" style="background-color: pink; text-align: center;" |
'''EXTERNAL LINKS'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: 90%;" |
'''Wikis'''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''encyclopedia article''
* [http://roguebasin.t-o-m-e.net/index.php/NetHack RogueBasin on NetHack]
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information''
* [http://strategywiki.net/wiki/NetHack StrategyWiki:NetHack] ''book of introduction and strategy''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''
* [[Uncyclopedia:Nethack]] ''plot summary''
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size:  90%;" |
'''The Internet'''
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [http://www.nethack.org/v343/Guidebook.html NetHack Guidebook] ''essential for beginners''
* [http://www.steelypips.org/nethack Yet Another NetHack Site] ''spoilers''
* [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/html/index.html Ye Olde Nethack Bestiary] A comprehensive list of NetHack '''Monsters'''
* [http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=Nethack NetHack@Everything2.com]
* [http://dudley.nicolaas.net Dudley's dungeon] ''the NetHack webcomic''
* [http://hispeed.tty1.com/nh-helper/nh-helper/nh-helper.html HiSPeed's Nethack Helper] ''identifies items by price, helps with Alchemy and Intrinsics''
* [http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~eva/nethack/spoilerlist.html List of Nethack Spoilers] - A comprehensive list of NetHack spoilers
|}

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>2ptnzb2wtqzv47689pznb6k945htprx</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>4431</id>
      <parentid>4404</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-03T13:05:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>friendlier starting points</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3647">{| class="wikitable" style="width: 100%; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;" |
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color: red;"&gt;This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

[[We]] started this new [[wiki]] at 11 October 2005. We already have '''[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles, but many of them are short [[:Category:stubs|stubs]].

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Starting points&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; Your character, the [[hero]]
: &amp;rarr; The [[Dungeon]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Item]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Message]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Monster]]s
: &amp;rarr; The [[source code]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Stuck?&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Ask an expert]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;How can I help?&lt;/div&gt;
Would you like to help but do not know where to begin? Here are a few ideas:
: &amp;rarr; First, read the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]
: &amp;rarr; Create a [[Special:Wantedpages|wanted page]]
: &amp;rarr; Add links to [[Special:Deadendpages|dead-end pages]]
: &amp;rarr; Expand [[Special:Shortpages|short pages]] and [[:Category:stubs|stubs]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Wikihack:Categories|Categorize]] [[Special:Uncategorizedpages|uncategorized pages]]
: &amp;rarr; If you are a ''source diver'', add and comment some [[source code]]
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Post your [[wisdom]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type the name of a [[monster]], [[object]], or anything interesting from ''[[NetHack]]'', then click "{{MediaWiki:Createarticle}}". Use lowercase letters for [[scroll of identify]], but capitalise [[Amulet of Yendor]].&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=create
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Search with [[dexterity]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type something into the box, then click "{{MediaWiki:Tryexact}}" to seek the wiki page of that name, or "{{MediaWiki:Searchfulltext}}" to search all of Wikihack for that text.&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=search
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
|-
| colspan="2" style="background-color: pink; text-align: center;" |
'''EXTERNAL LINKS'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: 90%;" |
'''Wikis'''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''encyclopedia article''
* [http://roguebasin.t-o-m-e.net/index.php/NetHack RogueBasin on NetHack]
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information''
* [http://strategywiki.net/wiki/NetHack StrategyWiki:NetHack] ''book of introduction and strategy''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''
* [[Uncyclopedia:Nethack]] ''plot summary''
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size:  90%;" |
'''The Internet'''
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [http://www.nethack.org/v343/Guidebook.html NetHack Guidebook] ''essential for beginners''
* [http://www.steelypips.org/nethack Yet Another NetHack Site] ''spoilers''
* [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/html/index.html Ye Olde Nethack Bestiary] A comprehensive list of NetHack '''Monsters'''
* [http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=Nethack NetHack@Everything2.com]
* [http://dudley.nicolaas.net Dudley's dungeon] ''the NetHack webcomic''
* [http://hispeed.tty1.com/nh-helper/nh-helper/nh-helper.html HiSPeed's Nethack Helper] ''identifies items by price, helps with Alchemy and Intrinsics''
* [http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~eva/nethack/spoilerlist.html List of Nethack Spoilers] - A comprehensive list of NetHack spoilers
|}

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>k2yfyu6r48ymfxhpyct7s7hedl0h8zd</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>4748</id>
      <parentid>4431</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-11T11:46:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>61.213.147.173</ip>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3998">{| class="wikitable" style="width: 100%; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;" |
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color: red;"&gt;This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

[[We]] started this new [[wiki]] at 11 October 2005. We already have '''[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles, but many of them are short [[:Category:stubs|stubs]].

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Starting points&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; Your character, the [[hero]]
: &amp;rarr; The [[Dungeon]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Item]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Message]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Monster]]s
: &amp;rarr; The [[source code]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Stuck?&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Ask an expert]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;How can I help?&lt;/div&gt;
Would you like to help but do not know where to begin? Here are a few ideas:
: &amp;rarr; First, read the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]
: &amp;rarr; Create a [[Special:Wantedpages|wanted page]]
: &amp;rarr; Add links to [[Special:Deadendpages|dead-end pages]]
: &amp;rarr; Expand [[Special:Shortpages|short pages]] and [[:Category:stubs|stubs]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Wikihack:Categories|Categorize]] [[Special:Uncategorizedpages|uncategorized pages]]
: &amp;rarr; If you are a ''source diver'', add and comment some [[source code]]
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Post your [[wisdom]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type the name of a [[monster]], [[object]], or anything interesting from ''[[NetHack]]'', then click "{{MediaWiki:Createarticle}}". Use lowercase letters for [[scroll of identify]], but capitalise [[Amulet of Yendor]].&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=create
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Search with [[dexterity]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type something into the box, then click "{{MediaWiki:Tryexact}}" to seek the wiki page of that name, or "{{MediaWiki:Searchfulltext}}" to search all of Wikihack for that text.&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=search
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
|-
| colspan="2" style="background-color: pink; text-align: center;" |
'''EXTERNAL LINKS'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: 90%;" |
'''Wikis'''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''encyclopedia article''
* [http://roguebasin.t-o-m-e.net/index.php/NetHack RogueBasin on NetHack]
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information''
* [http://strategywiki.net/wiki/NetHack StrategyWiki:NetHack] ''book of introduction and strategy''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''
* [[Uncyclopedia:Nethack]] ''plot summary''
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size:  90%;" |
'''The Internet'''
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [http://www.nethack.org/v343/Guidebook.html NetHack Guidebook] ''essential for beginners''
* [http://www.steelypips.org/nethack Yet Another NetHack Site] ''spoilers''
* [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/html/index.html Ye Olde Nethack Bestiary] A comprehensive list of NetHack '''Monsters'''
* [http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=Nethack NetHack@Everything2.com]
* [http://dudley.nicolaas.net Dudley's dungeon] ''the NetHack webcomic''
* [http://hispeed.tty1.com/nh-helper/nh-helper/nh-helper.html HiSPeed's Nethack Helper] ''identifies items by price, helps with Alchemy and Intrinsics''
* [http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~eva/nethack/spoilerlist.html List of Nethack Spoilers] - A comprehensive list of NetHack spoilers
|}

[[Category:Articles]]
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      <sha1>9th1txpk1wnitlf6x925uypwyf7tq7v</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>4749</id>
      <parentid>4748</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-11T13:47:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/61.213.147.173|61.213.147.173]] ([[User_talk:61.213.147.173|Talk]]); changed back to last version by [[User:Jayt|Jayt]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3647">{| class="wikitable" style="width: 100%; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;" |
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color: red;"&gt;This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

[[We]] started this new [[wiki]] at 11 October 2005. We already have '''[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles, but many of them are short [[:Category:stubs|stubs]].

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Starting points&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; Your character, the [[hero]]
: &amp;rarr; The [[Dungeon]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Item]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Message]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Monster]]s
: &amp;rarr; The [[source code]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Stuck?&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Ask an expert]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;How can I help?&lt;/div&gt;
Would you like to help but do not know where to begin? Here are a few ideas:
: &amp;rarr; First, read the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]
: &amp;rarr; Create a [[Special:Wantedpages|wanted page]]
: &amp;rarr; Add links to [[Special:Deadendpages|dead-end pages]]
: &amp;rarr; Expand [[Special:Shortpages|short pages]] and [[:Category:stubs|stubs]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Wikihack:Categories|Categorize]] [[Special:Uncategorizedpages|uncategorized pages]]
: &amp;rarr; If you are a ''source diver'', add and comment some [[source code]]
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Post your [[wisdom]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type the name of a [[monster]], [[object]], or anything interesting from ''[[NetHack]]'', then click "{{MediaWiki:Createarticle}}". Use lowercase letters for [[scroll of identify]], but capitalise [[Amulet of Yendor]].&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=create
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Search with [[dexterity]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type something into the box, then click "{{MediaWiki:Tryexact}}" to seek the wiki page of that name, or "{{MediaWiki:Searchfulltext}}" to search all of Wikihack for that text.&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=search
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
|-
| colspan="2" style="background-color: pink; text-align: center;" |
'''EXTERNAL LINKS'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: 90%;" |
'''Wikis'''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''encyclopedia article''
* [http://roguebasin.t-o-m-e.net/index.php/NetHack RogueBasin on NetHack]
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information''
* [http://strategywiki.net/wiki/NetHack StrategyWiki:NetHack] ''book of introduction and strategy''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''
* [[Uncyclopedia:Nethack]] ''plot summary''
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size:  90%;" |
'''The Internet'''
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [http://www.nethack.org/v343/Guidebook.html NetHack Guidebook] ''essential for beginners''
* [http://www.steelypips.org/nethack Yet Another NetHack Site] ''spoilers''
* [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/html/index.html Ye Olde Nethack Bestiary] A comprehensive list of NetHack '''Monsters'''
* [http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=Nethack NetHack@Everything2.com]
* [http://dudley.nicolaas.net Dudley's dungeon] ''the NetHack webcomic''
* [http://hispeed.tty1.com/nh-helper/nh-helper/nh-helper.html HiSPeed's Nethack Helper] ''identifies items by price, helps with Alchemy and Intrinsics''
* [http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~eva/nethack/spoilerlist.html List of Nethack Spoilers] - A comprehensive list of NetHack spoilers
|}

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>k2yfyu6r48ymfxhpyct7s7hedl0h8zd</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>4900</id>
      <parentid>4749</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-13T19:15:04Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>201.242.37.145</ip>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3995">{| class="wikitable" style="width: 100%; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;" |
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color: red;"&gt;This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

[[We]] started this new [[wiki]] at 11 October 2005. We already have '''[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles, but many of them are short [[:Category:stubs|stubs]].

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Starting points&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; Your character, the [[hero]]
: &amp;rarr; The [[Dungeon]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Item]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Message]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Monster]]s
: &amp;rarr; The [[source code]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Stuck?&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Ask an expert]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;How can I help?&lt;/div&gt;
Would you like to help but do not know where to begin? Here are a few ideas:
: &amp;rarr; First, read the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]
: &amp;rarr; Create a [[Special:Wantedpages|wanted page]]
: &amp;rarr; Add links to [[Special:Deadendpages|dead-end pages]]
: &amp;rarr; Expand [[Special:Shortpages|short pages]] and [[:Category:stubs|stubs]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Wikihack:Categories|Categorize]] [[Special:Uncategorizedpages|uncategorized pages]]
: &amp;rarr; If you are a ''source diver'', add and comment some [[source code]]
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Post your [[wisdom]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type the name of a [[monster]], [[object]], or anything interesting from ''[[NetHack]]'', then click "{{MediaWiki:Createarticle}}". Use lowercase letters for [[scroll of identify]], but capitalise [[Amulet of Yendor]].&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=create
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Search with [[dexterity]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type something into the box, then click "{{MediaWiki:Tryexact}}" to seek the wiki page of that name, or "{{MediaWiki:Searchfulltext}}" to search all of Wikihack for that text.&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=search
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
|-
| colspan="2" style="background-color: pink; text-align: center;" |
'''EXTERNAL LINKS'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: 90%;" |
'''Wikis'''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''encyclopedia article''
* [http://roguebasin.t-o-m-e.net/index.php/NetHack RogueBasin on NetHack]
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information''
* [http://strategywiki.net/wiki/NetHack StrategyWiki:NetHack] ''book of introduction and strategy''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''
* [[Uncyclopedia:Nethack]] ''plot summary''
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size:  90%;" |
'''The Internet'''
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [http://www.nethack.org/v343/Guidebook.html NetHack Guidebook] ''essential for beginners''
* [http://www.steelypips.org/nethack Yet Another NetHack Site] ''spoilers''
* [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/html/index.html Ye Olde Nethack Bestiary] A comprehensive list of NetHack '''Monsters'''
* [http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=Nethack NetHack@Everything2.com]
* [http://dudley.nicolaas.net Dudley's dungeon] ''the NetHack webcomic''
* [http://hispeed.tty1.com/nh-helper/nh-helper/nh-helper.html HiSPeed's Nethack Helper] ''identifies items by price, helps with Alchemy and Intrinsics''
* [http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~eva/nethack/spoilerlist.html List of Nethack Spoilers] - A comprehensive list of NetHack spoilers
|}

[[Category:Articles]]
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      <sha1>lhaow1vv33oj7d895zn9trcwwgl9ksz</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>4901</id>
      <parentid>4900</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-13T20:12:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Lotte</username>
        <id>509</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>rvv</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3647">{| class="wikitable" style="width: 100%; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;" |
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color: red;"&gt;This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

[[We]] started this new [[wiki]] at 11 October 2005. We already have '''[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles, but many of them are short [[:Category:stubs|stubs]].

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Starting points&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; Your character, the [[hero]]
: &amp;rarr; The [[Dungeon]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Item]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Message]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Monster]]s
: &amp;rarr; The [[source code]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Stuck?&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Ask an expert]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;How can I help?&lt;/div&gt;
Would you like to help but do not know where to begin? Here are a few ideas:
: &amp;rarr; First, read the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]
: &amp;rarr; Create a [[Special:Wantedpages|wanted page]]
: &amp;rarr; Add links to [[Special:Deadendpages|dead-end pages]]
: &amp;rarr; Expand [[Special:Shortpages|short pages]] and [[:Category:stubs|stubs]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Wikihack:Categories|Categorize]] [[Special:Uncategorizedpages|uncategorized pages]]
: &amp;rarr; If you are a ''source diver'', add and comment some [[source code]]
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Post your [[wisdom]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type the name of a [[monster]], [[object]], or anything interesting from ''[[NetHack]]'', then click "{{MediaWiki:Createarticle}}". Use lowercase letters for [[scroll of identify]], but capitalise [[Amulet of Yendor]].&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=create
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Search with [[dexterity]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type something into the box, then click "{{MediaWiki:Tryexact}}" to seek the wiki page of that name, or "{{MediaWiki:Searchfulltext}}" to search all of Wikihack for that text.&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=search
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
|-
| colspan="2" style="background-color: pink; text-align: center;" |
'''EXTERNAL LINKS'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: 90%;" |
'''Wikis'''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''encyclopedia article''
* [http://roguebasin.t-o-m-e.net/index.php/NetHack RogueBasin on NetHack]
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information''
* [http://strategywiki.net/wiki/NetHack StrategyWiki:NetHack] ''book of introduction and strategy''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''
* [[Uncyclopedia:Nethack]] ''plot summary''
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size:  90%;" |
'''The Internet'''
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [http://www.nethack.org/v343/Guidebook.html NetHack Guidebook] ''essential for beginners''
* [http://www.steelypips.org/nethack Yet Another NetHack Site] ''spoilers''
* [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/html/index.html Ye Olde Nethack Bestiary] A comprehensive list of NetHack '''Monsters'''
* [http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=Nethack NetHack@Everything2.com]
* [http://dudley.nicolaas.net Dudley's dungeon] ''the NetHack webcomic''
* [http://hispeed.tty1.com/nh-helper/nh-helper/nh-helper.html HiSPeed's Nethack Helper] ''identifies items by price, helps with Alchemy and Intrinsics''
* [http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~eva/nethack/spoilerlist.html List of Nethack Spoilers] - A comprehensive list of NetHack spoilers
|}

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>k2yfyu6r48ymfxhpyct7s7hedl0h8zd</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>4913</id>
      <parentid>4901</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-14T15:45:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>make external links' appearance consistent with each other</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3647">{| class="wikitable" style="width: 100%; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;" |
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color: red;"&gt;This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

[[We]] started this new [[wiki]] at 11 October 2005. We already have '''[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles, but many of them are short [[:Category:stubs|stubs]].

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Starting points&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; Your character, the [[hero]]
: &amp;rarr; The [[Dungeon]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Item]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Message]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Monster]]s
: &amp;rarr; The [[source code]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Stuck?&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Ask an expert]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;How can I help?&lt;/div&gt;
Would you like to help but do not know where to begin? Here are a few ideas:
: &amp;rarr; First, read the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]
: &amp;rarr; Create a [[Special:Wantedpages|wanted page]]
: &amp;rarr; Add links to [[Special:Deadendpages|dead-end pages]]
: &amp;rarr; Expand [[Special:Shortpages|short pages]] and [[:Category:stubs|stubs]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Wikihack:Categories|Categorize]] [[Special:Uncategorizedpages|uncategorized pages]]
: &amp;rarr; If you are a ''source diver'', add and comment some [[source code]]
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Post your [[wisdom]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type the name of a [[monster]], [[object]], or anything interesting from ''[[NetHack]]'', then click "{{MediaWiki:Createarticle}}". Use lowercase letters for [[scroll of identify]], but capitalise [[Amulet of Yendor]].&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=create
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Search with [[dexterity]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type something into the box, then click "{{MediaWiki:Tryexact}}" to seek the wiki page of that name, or "{{MediaWiki:Searchfulltext}}" to search all of Wikihack for that text.&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=search
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
|-
| colspan="2" style="background-color: pink; text-align: center;" |
'''EXTERNAL LINKS'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: 90%;" |
'''Wikis'''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''encyclopedia article''
* [http://roguebasin.t-o-m-e.net/index.php/NetHack RogueBasin on NetHack]
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information''
* [http://strategywiki.net/wiki/NetHack StrategyWiki:NetHack] ''book of introduction and strategy''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''
* [[Uncyclopedia:Nethack]] ''plot summary''
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size:  90%;" |
'''The Internet'''
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [http://www.nethack.org/v343/Guidebook.html NetHack Guidebook] ''essential for beginners''
* [http://www.steelypips.org/nethack Yet Another NetHack Site] ''spoilers''
* [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/html/index.html Ye Olde Nethack Bestiary] ''A comprehensive list of NetHack monsters''
* [http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=Nethack NetHack@Everything2.com]
* [http://dudley.nicolaas.net Dudley's dungeon] ''the NetHack webcomic''
* [http://hispeed.tty1.com/nh-helper/nh-helper/nh-helper.html HiSPeed's Nethack Helper] ''identifies items by price, helps with Alchemy and Intrinsics''
* [http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~eva/nethack/spoilerlist.html List of Nethack Spoilers] ''A comprehensive list of NetHack spoilers''
|}

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>tohwbd6uxpla6zuce4xsni6oej1agxw</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>4914</id>
      <parentid>4913</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-14T15:47:01Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Protected "[[Main Page]]": Gets spammed a lot. Registered users can still edit. [edit=autoconfirmed:move=sysop]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3647">{| class="wikitable" style="width: 100%; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;" |
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color: red;"&gt;This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

[[We]] started this new [[wiki]] at 11 October 2005. We already have '''[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles, but many of them are short [[:Category:stubs|stubs]].

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Starting points&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; Your character, the [[hero]]
: &amp;rarr; The [[Dungeon]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Item]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Message]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Monster]]s
: &amp;rarr; The [[source code]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Stuck?&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Ask an expert]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;How can I help?&lt;/div&gt;
Would you like to help but do not know where to begin? Here are a few ideas:
: &amp;rarr; First, read the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]
: &amp;rarr; Create a [[Special:Wantedpages|wanted page]]
: &amp;rarr; Add links to [[Special:Deadendpages|dead-end pages]]
: &amp;rarr; Expand [[Special:Shortpages|short pages]] and [[:Category:stubs|stubs]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Wikihack:Categories|Categorize]] [[Special:Uncategorizedpages|uncategorized pages]]
: &amp;rarr; If you are a ''source diver'', add and comment some [[source code]]
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Post your [[wisdom]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type the name of a [[monster]], [[object]], or anything interesting from ''[[NetHack]]'', then click "{{MediaWiki:Createarticle}}". Use lowercase letters for [[scroll of identify]], but capitalise [[Amulet of Yendor]].&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=create
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Search with [[dexterity]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type something into the box, then click "{{MediaWiki:Tryexact}}" to seek the wiki page of that name, or "{{MediaWiki:Searchfulltext}}" to search all of Wikihack for that text.&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=search
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
|-
| colspan="2" style="background-color: pink; text-align: center;" |
'''EXTERNAL LINKS'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: 90%;" |
'''Wikis'''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''encyclopedia article''
* [http://roguebasin.t-o-m-e.net/index.php/NetHack RogueBasin on NetHack]
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information''
* [http://strategywiki.net/wiki/NetHack StrategyWiki:NetHack] ''book of introduction and strategy''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''
* [[Uncyclopedia:Nethack]] ''plot summary''
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size:  90%;" |
'''The Internet'''
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [http://www.nethack.org/v343/Guidebook.html NetHack Guidebook] ''essential for beginners''
* [http://www.steelypips.org/nethack Yet Another NetHack Site] ''spoilers''
* [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/html/index.html Ye Olde Nethack Bestiary] ''A comprehensive list of NetHack monsters''
* [http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=Nethack NetHack@Everything2.com]
* [http://dudley.nicolaas.net Dudley's dungeon] ''the NetHack webcomic''
* [http://hispeed.tty1.com/nh-helper/nh-helper/nh-helper.html HiSPeed's Nethack Helper] ''identifies items by price, helps with Alchemy and Intrinsics''
* [http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~eva/nethack/spoilerlist.html List of Nethack Spoilers] ''A comprehensive list of NetHack spoilers''
|}

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>tohwbd6uxpla6zuce4xsni6oej1agxw</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5049</id>
      <parentid>4914</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-17T19:04:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>We also encourage you to [[Special:Userlogin|create an account]].</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3714">{| class="wikitable" style="width: 100%; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;" |
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color: red;"&gt;This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

[[We]] started this new [[wiki]] at 11 October 2005. We already have '''[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles, but many of them are short [[:Category:stubs|stubs]].

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Starting points&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; Your character, the [[hero]]
: &amp;rarr; The [[Dungeon]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Item]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Message]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Monster]]s
: &amp;rarr; The [[source code]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Stuck?&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Ask an expert]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;How can I help?&lt;/div&gt;
Would you like to help but do not know where to begin? Here are a few ideas:
: &amp;rarr; First, read the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]. We also encourage you to [[Special:Userlogin|create an account]].
: &amp;rarr; Create a [[Special:Wantedpages|wanted page]]
: &amp;rarr; Add links to [[Special:Deadendpages|dead-end pages]]
: &amp;rarr; Expand [[Special:Shortpages|short pages]] and [[:Category:stubs|stubs]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Wikihack:Categories|Categorize]] [[Special:Uncategorizedpages|uncategorized pages]]
: &amp;rarr; If you are a ''source diver'', add and comment some [[source code]]
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Post your [[wisdom]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type the name of a [[monster]], [[object]], or anything interesting from ''[[NetHack]]'', then click "{{MediaWiki:Createarticle}}". Use lowercase letters for [[scroll of identify]], but capitalise [[Amulet of Yendor]].&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=create
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Search with [[dexterity]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type something into the box, then click "{{MediaWiki:Tryexact}}" to seek the wiki page of that name, or "{{MediaWiki:Searchfulltext}}" to search all of Wikihack for that text.&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=search
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
|-
| colspan="2" style="background-color: pink; text-align: center;" |
'''EXTERNAL LINKS'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: 90%;" |
'''Wikis'''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''encyclopedia article''
* [http://roguebasin.t-o-m-e.net/index.php/NetHack RogueBasin on NetHack]
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information''
* [http://strategywiki.net/wiki/NetHack StrategyWiki:NetHack] ''book of introduction and strategy''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''
* [[Uncyclopedia:Nethack]] ''plot summary''
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size:  90%;" |
'''The Internet'''
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [http://www.nethack.org/v343/Guidebook.html NetHack Guidebook] ''essential for beginners''
* [http://www.steelypips.org/nethack Yet Another NetHack Site] ''spoilers''
* [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/html/index.html Ye Olde Nethack Bestiary] ''A comprehensive list of NetHack monsters''
* [http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=Nethack NetHack@Everything2.com]
* [http://dudley.nicolaas.net Dudley's dungeon] ''the NetHack webcomic''
* [http://hispeed.tty1.com/nh-helper/nh-helper/nh-helper.html HiSPeed's Nethack Helper] ''identifies items by price, helps with Alchemy and Intrinsics''
* [http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~eva/nethack/spoilerlist.html List of Nethack Spoilers] ''A comprehensive list of NetHack spoilers''
|}

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>6gf4tgfl127bhtzi0bi5nq85cben3kd</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5058</id>
      <parentid>5049</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-18T16:12:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>added news section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3769">{| class="wikitable" style="width: 100%; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;" |
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color: red;"&gt;This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

[[We]] started this new [[wiki]] at 11 October 2005. We already have '''[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles, but many of them are short [[:Category:stubs|stubs]].

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Starting points&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; Your character, the [[hero]]
: &amp;rarr; The [[Dungeon]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Item]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Message]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Monster]]s
: &amp;rarr; The [[source code]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Stuck?&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Ask an expert]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;How can I help?&lt;/div&gt;
Would you like to help but do not know where to begin? Here are a few ideas:
: &amp;rarr; First, read the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]. We also encourage you to [[Special:Userlogin|create an account]].
: &amp;rarr; Create a [[Special:Wantedpages|wanted page]]
: &amp;rarr; Add links to [[Special:Deadendpages|dead-end pages]]
: &amp;rarr; Expand [[Special:Shortpages|short pages]] and [[:Category:stubs|stubs]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Wikihack:Categories|Categorize]] [[Special:Uncategorizedpages|uncategorized pages]]
: &amp;rarr; If you are a ''source diver'', add and comment some [[source code]]
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
News
&lt;/div&gt;

{{News}}

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Post your [[wisdom]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type the name of a [[monster]], [[object]], or anything interesting from ''[[NetHack]]'', then click "{{MediaWiki:Createarticle}}". Use lowercase letters for [[scroll of identify]], but capitalise [[Amulet of Yendor]].&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=create
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Search with [[dexterity]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type something into the box, then click "{{MediaWiki:Tryexact}}" to seek the wiki page of that name, or "{{MediaWiki:Searchfulltext}}" to search all of Wikihack for that text.&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=search
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
|-
| colspan="2" style="background-color: pink; text-align: center;" |
'''EXTERNAL LINKS'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: 90%;" |
'''Wikis'''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''encyclopedia article''
* [http://roguebasin.t-o-m-e.net/index.php/NetHack RogueBasin on NetHack]
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information''
* [http://strategywiki.net/wiki/NetHack StrategyWiki:NetHack] ''book of introduction and strategy''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''
* [[Uncyclopedia:Nethack]] ''plot summary''
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size:  90%;" |
'''The Internet'''
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [http://www.nethack.org/v343/Guidebook.html NetHack Guidebook] ''essential for beginners''
* [http://www.steelypips.org/nethack Yet Another NetHack Site] ''spoilers''
* [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/html/index.html Ye Olde Nethack Bestiary] ''A comprehensive list of NetHack monsters''
* [http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=Nethack NetHack@Everything2.com]
* [http://dudley.nicolaas.net Dudley's dungeon] ''the NetHack webcomic''
* [http://hispeed.tty1.com/nh-helper/nh-helper/nh-helper.html HiSPeed's Nethack Helper] ''identifies items by price, helps with Alchemy and Intrinsics''
* [http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~eva/nethack/spoilerlist.html List of Nethack Spoilers] ''A comprehensive list of NetHack spoilers''
|}

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>q9kr6d5yt6js1q6rzawis689duboies</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>6657</id>
      <parentid>5058</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-08-05T23:32:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Unprotected "[[Main Page]]": Unprotecting; reprotect if too much trouble results.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3769">{| class="wikitable" style="width: 100%; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;" |
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color: red;"&gt;This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

[[We]] started this new [[wiki]] at 11 October 2005. We already have '''[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles, but many of them are short [[:Category:stubs|stubs]].

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Starting points&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; Your character, the [[hero]]
: &amp;rarr; The [[Dungeon]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Item]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Message]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Monster]]s
: &amp;rarr; The [[source code]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Stuck?&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Ask an expert]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;How can I help?&lt;/div&gt;
Would you like to help but do not know where to begin? Here are a few ideas:
: &amp;rarr; First, read the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]. We also encourage you to [[Special:Userlogin|create an account]].
: &amp;rarr; Create a [[Special:Wantedpages|wanted page]]
: &amp;rarr; Add links to [[Special:Deadendpages|dead-end pages]]
: &amp;rarr; Expand [[Special:Shortpages|short pages]] and [[:Category:stubs|stubs]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Wikihack:Categories|Categorize]] [[Special:Uncategorizedpages|uncategorized pages]]
: &amp;rarr; If you are a ''source diver'', add and comment some [[source code]]
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
News
&lt;/div&gt;

{{News}}

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Post your [[wisdom]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type the name of a [[monster]], [[object]], or anything interesting from ''[[NetHack]]'', then click "{{MediaWiki:Createarticle}}". Use lowercase letters for [[scroll of identify]], but capitalise [[Amulet of Yendor]].&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=create
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Search with [[dexterity]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type something into the box, then click "{{MediaWiki:Tryexact}}" to seek the wiki page of that name, or "{{MediaWiki:Searchfulltext}}" to search all of Wikihack for that text.&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=search
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
|-
| colspan="2" style="background-color: pink; text-align: center;" |
'''EXTERNAL LINKS'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: 90%;" |
'''Wikis'''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''encyclopedia article''
* [http://roguebasin.t-o-m-e.net/index.php/NetHack RogueBasin on NetHack]
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information''
* [http://strategywiki.net/wiki/NetHack StrategyWiki:NetHack] ''book of introduction and strategy''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''
* [[Uncyclopedia:Nethack]] ''plot summary''
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size:  90%;" |
'''The Internet'''
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [http://www.nethack.org/v343/Guidebook.html NetHack Guidebook] ''essential for beginners''
* [http://www.steelypips.org/nethack Yet Another NetHack Site] ''spoilers''
* [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/html/index.html Ye Olde Nethack Bestiary] ''A comprehensive list of NetHack monsters''
* [http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=Nethack NetHack@Everything2.com]
* [http://dudley.nicolaas.net Dudley's dungeon] ''the NetHack webcomic''
* [http://hispeed.tty1.com/nh-helper/nh-helper/nh-helper.html HiSPeed's Nethack Helper] ''identifies items by price, helps with Alchemy and Intrinsics''
* [http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~eva/nethack/spoilerlist.html List of Nethack Spoilers] ''A comprehensive list of NetHack spoilers''
|}

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>q9kr6d5yt6js1q6rzawis689duboies</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>6659</id>
      <parentid>6657</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-08-05T23:44:13Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Link to [[game history]], an interesting place thanks to Ray Chason's versions project and ZeroOne's timeline.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3795">{| class="wikitable" style="width: 100%; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;" |
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color: red;"&gt;This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

[[We]] started this new [[wiki]] at 11 October 2005. We already have '''[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles, but many of them are short [[:Category:stubs|stubs]].

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Starting points&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; Your character, the [[hero]]
: &amp;rarr; The [[Dungeon]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Item]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Message]]s
: &amp;rarr; [[Monster]]s
: &amp;rarr; The [[source code]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Game history]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;Stuck?&lt;/div&gt;
: &amp;rarr; [[Ask an expert]]
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;How can I help?&lt;/div&gt;
Would you like to help but do not know where to begin? Here are a few ideas:
: &amp;rarr; First, read the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]. We also encourage you to [[Special:Userlogin|create an account]].
: &amp;rarr; Create a [[Special:Wantedpages|wanted page]]
: &amp;rarr; Add links to [[Special:Deadendpages|dead-end pages]]
: &amp;rarr; Expand [[Special:Shortpages|short pages]] and [[:Category:stubs|stubs]]
: &amp;rarr; [[Wikihack:Categories|Categorize]] [[Special:Uncategorizedpages|uncategorized pages]]
: &amp;rarr; If you are a ''source diver'', add and comment some [[source code]]
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
News
&lt;/div&gt;

{{News}}

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Post your [[wisdom]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type the name of a [[monster]], [[object]], or anything interesting from ''[[NetHack]]'', then click "{{MediaWiki:Createarticle}}". Use lowercase letters for [[scroll of identify]], but capitalise [[Amulet of Yendor]].&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=create
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;

&lt;div style="font-size: 1.5em;"&gt;
Search with [[dexterity]]
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;small&gt;Type something into the box, then click "{{MediaWiki:Tryexact}}" to seek the wiki page of that name, or "{{MediaWiki:Searchfulltext}}" to search all of Wikihack for that text.&lt;/small&gt;
&lt;inputbox&gt;
type=search
width=20
&lt;/inputbox&gt;
|-
| colspan="2" style="background-color: pink; text-align: center;" |
'''EXTERNAL LINKS'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size: 90%;" |
'''Wikis'''
* [[Wikipedia:NetHack]] ''encyclopedia article''
* [http://roguebasin.t-o-m-e.net/index.php/NetHack RogueBasin on NetHack]
* [[Gameinfo:NetHack]] ''game information''
* [http://strategywiki.net/wiki/NetHack StrategyWiki:NetHack] ''book of introduction and strategy''
* [[Novelas:NetHack]] ''fan fiction''
* [[Uncyclopedia:Nethack]] ''plot summary''
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top; font-size:  90%;" |
'''The Internet'''
* http://www.nethack.org ''official site''
* [http://www.nethack.org/v343/Guidebook.html NetHack Guidebook] ''essential for beginners''
* [http://www.steelypips.org/nethack Yet Another NetHack Site] ''spoilers''
* [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/html/index.html Ye Olde Nethack Bestiary] ''A comprehensive list of NetHack monsters''
* [http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=Nethack NetHack@Everything2.com]
* [http://dudley.nicolaas.net Dudley's dungeon] ''the NetHack webcomic''
* [http://hispeed.tty1.com/nh-helper/nh-helper/nh-helper.html HiSPeed's Nethack Helper] ''identifies items by price, helps with Alchemy and Intrinsics''
* [http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~eva/nethack/spoilerlist.html List of Nethack Spoilers] ''A comprehensive list of NetHack spoilers''
|}

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>oo6qpwpknqtjtbrhgxkygrm3avp6zg2</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>6836</id>
      <parentid>6659</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-08-09T21:33:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>new main page</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="792">{| class="wikitable" style="width: 100%; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;" |
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki will be one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.

| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
===News===
{{News}}
|-
|colspan="2"|{{Template:Overview}}
|}

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>k4h8u0iqtrdl4zm01mfcqsnzjfyd876</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>6947</id>
      <parentid>6836</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-08-11T00:43:23Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>"this wiki will be" -&gt; "this wiki is". I think it's a safe change at this point. :)</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="787">{| class="wikitable" style="width: 100%; font-size: 95%;"
| colspan="2" style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;" |
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
|-
| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''

This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.

| style="width: 50%; vertical-align: top;" |
===News===
{{News}}
|-
|colspan="2"|{{Template:Overview}}
|}

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>qjmf3wjiwgn0hfl3y2527dqshkj5yfn</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9345</id>
      <parentid>6947</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-08-31T23:00:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>new main page</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="13899">__NOTOC__
__NOEDITSECTION__
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:2px;"
|width="60%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; margin-right:2px;"|
{{Currentfeature}}
|width="40%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F;"|
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|style="width: 100%; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|colspan="3" style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestibles]]
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Level]]s
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%"
|width="33%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB;  padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:Slash'EM|Slash'EM]]
|width="33%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[List of NetHack websites|Websites]]
|width="33%" style="background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]] - [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|-
|colspan="4" width="100%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; text-align:center; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Monster]]s===
[[ghost|{{blue|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[shade|{{blue|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[soldier ant|{{blue|a}}]][[giant beetle|{{blue|a}}]][[giant ant|{{brown|a}}]][[queen bee|{{magenta|a}}]][[fire ant|{{red|a}}]][[killer bee|{{yellow|a}}]][[gelatinous cube|{{cyan|b}}]][[acid blob|{{green|b}}]][[quivering blob|{{white|b}}]][[chickatrice|{{brown|c}}]][[pyrolisk|{{red|c}}]][[cockatrice|{{yellow|c}}]][[jackal|{{brown|d}}]][[coyote|{{brown|d}}]][[werejackal (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[wolf|{{brown|d}}]][[werewolf (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[warg|{{brown|d}}]][[winter wolf cub|{{cyan|d}}]][[winter wolf|{{cyan|d}}]][[fox|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound pup|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound|{{red|d}}]][[Cerberus|{{red|d}}]][[little dog|{{white|d}}]][[dog|{{white|d}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[large dog|{{white|d}}]][[dingo|{{yellow|d}}]][[floating eye|{{blue|e}}]][[shocking sphere|{{brightblue|e}}]][[beholder|{{brown|e}}]][[gas spore|{{lightgray|e}}]][[flaming sphere|{{red|e}}]][[freezing sphere|{{white|e}}]][[panther|{{blue|f}}]][[jaguar|{{brown|f}}]][[lynx|{{cyan|f}}]][[kitten|{{white|f}}]][[housecat|{{white|f}}]][[large cat|{{white|f}}]][[tiger|{{yellow|f}}]][[gargoyle|{{brown|g}}]][[gremlin|{{green|g}}]][[winged gargoyle|{{magenta|g}}]][[dwarf lord|{{blue|h}}]][[bugbear|{{brown|h}}]][[hobbit|{{green|h}}]][[dwarf king|{{magenta|h}}]][[mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[master mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[dwarf|{{red|h}}]][[quasit|{{blue|i}}]][[lemure|{{brown|i}}]][[tengu|{{cyan|i}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[homunculus|{{green|i}}]][[manes|{{red|i}}]][[imp|{{red|i}}]][[blue jelly|{{blue|j}}]][[ochre jelly|{{brown|j}}]][[spotted jelly|{{green|j}}]][[kobold shaman|{{brightblue|k}}]][[kobold|{{brown|k}}]][[kobold lord|{{magenta|k}}]][[large kobold|{{red|k}}]][[leprechaun|{{green|l}}]][[small mimic|{{brown|m}}]][[giant mimic|{{magenta|m}}]][[large mimic|{{red|m}}]][[water nymph|{{blue|n}}]][[mountain nymph|{{brown|n}}]][[wood nymph|{{green|n}}]][[Mordor orc|{{blue|o}}]][[Uruk-hai|{{blue|o}}]][[orc shaman|{{brightblue|o}}]][[hobgoblin|{{brown|o}}]][[goblin|{{lightgray|o}}]][[orc-captain|{{magenta|o}}]][[Goblin King|{{magenta|o}}]][[orc|{{red|o}}]][[hill orc|{{yellow|o}}]][[iron piercer|{{cyan|p}}]][[rock piercer|{{lightgray|p}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[glass piercer|{{white|p}}]][[mastodon|{{blue|q}}]][[rothe|{{brown|q}}]][[wumpus|{{cyan|q}}]][[mumak|{{lightgray|q}}]][[titanothere|{{lightgray|q}}]][[baluchitherium|{{lightgray|q}}]][[leocrotta|{{red|q}}]][[sewer rat|{{brown|r}}]][[giant rat|{{brown|r}}]][[rabid rat|{{brown|r}}]][[wererat (rodent)|{{brown|r}}]][[woodchuck|{{brown|r}}]][[rock mole|{{lightgray|r}}]][[cave spider|{{lightgray|s}}]][[giant spider|{{magenta|s}}]][[Scorpius|{{magenta|s}}]][[scorpion|{{red|s}}]][[centipede|{{yellow|s}}]][[trapper|{{green|t}}]][[lurker above|{{lightgray|t}}]][[black unicorn|{{blue|u}}]][[pony|{{brown|u}}]][[horse|{{brown|u}}]][[warhorse|{{brown|u}}]][[gray unicorn|{{lightgray|u}}]][[white unicorn|{{white|u}}]][[steam vortex|{{blue|v}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[energy vortex|{{brightblue|v}}]][[dust vortex|{{brown|v}}]][[ice vortex|{{cyan|v}}]][[fog cloud|{{lightgray|v}}]][[fire vortex|{{yellow|v}}]][[baby long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[baby purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[grid bug|{{magenta|x}}]][[xan|{{red|x}}]][[black light|{{blue|y}}]][[yellow light|{{yellow|y}}]][[zruty|{{brown|z}}]][[couatl|{{green|A}}]][[Archon|{{magenta|A}}]][[Angel|{{white|A}}]][[Aleax|{{yellow|A}}]][[ki-rin|{{yellow|A}}]][[raven|{{blue|B}}]][[vampire bat|{{blue|B}}]][[bat|{{brown|B}}]][[giant bat|{{red|B}}]][[plains centaur|{{brown|C}}]][[mountain centaur|{{cyan|C}}]][[forest centaur|{{green|C}}]][[baby black dragon|{{blue|D}}]][[baby blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[black dragon|{{blue|D}}]][[blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]][[baby silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[baby orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[baby shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[baby green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[baby gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[Chromatic Dragon|{{magenta|D}}]][[baby red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[Ixoth|{{red|D}}]][[baby white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[baby yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[water elemental|{{blue|E}}]][[earth elemental|{{brown|E}}]][[air elemental|{{cyan|E}}]][[stalker|{{white|E}}]][[fire elemental|{{yellow|E}}]][[lichen|{{brightgreen|F}}]][[brown mold|{{brown|F}}]][[green mold|{{green|F}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[shrieker|{{magenta|F}}]][[violet fungus|{{magenta|F}}]][[red mold|{{red|F}}]][[yellow mold|{{yellow|F}}]][[gnome lord|{{blue|G}}]][[gnomish wizard|{{brightblue|G}}]][[gnome|{{brown|G}}]][[gnome king|{{magenta|G}}]][[storm giant|{{blue|H}}]][[ettin|{{brown|H}}]][[minotaur|{{brown|H}}]][[hill giant|{{cyan|H}}]][[stone giant|{{lightgray|H}}]][[Cyclops|{{lightgray|H}}]][[titan|{{magenta|H}}]][[Lord Surtur|{{magenta|H}}]][[giant|{{red|H}}]][[frost giant|{{white|H}}]][[fire giant|{{yellow|H}}]][[jabberwock|{{brightred|J}}]][[vorpal jabberwock|{{magenta|J}}]][[Keystone Kop|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Sergeant|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Lieutenant|{{cyan|K}}]][[Kop Kaptain|{{magenta|K}}]][[lich|{{brown|L}}]][[master lich|{{magenta|L}}]][[arch-lich|{{magenta|L}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[demilich|{{red|L}}]][[ettin mummy|{{blue|M}}]][[kobold mummy|{{brown|M}}]][[giant mummy|{{cyan|M}}]][[elf mummy|{{green|M}}]][[orc mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[human mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[gnome mummy|{{red|M}}]][[dwarf mummy|{{red|M}}]][[black naga hatchling|{{blue|N}}]][[black naga|{{blue|N}}]][[guardian naga hatchling|{{green|N}}]][[guardian naga|{{green|N}}]][[red naga hatchling|{{red|N}}]][[red naga|{{red|N}}]][[golden naga hatchling|{{yellow|N}}]][[golden naga|{{yellow|N}}]][[ogre|{{brown|O}}]][[ogre king|{{magenta|O}}]][[ogre lord|{{red|O}}]][[black pudding|{{blue|P}}]][[brown pudding|{{brown|P}}]][[green slime|{{green|P}}]][[gray ooze|{{lightgray|P}}]][[quantum mechanic|{{cyan|Q}}]][[disenchanter|{{blue|R}}]][[rust monster|{{brown|R}}]][[pit viper|{{blue|S}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[cobra|{{blue|S}}]][[snake|{{brown|S}}]][[garter snake|{{green|S}}]][[python|{{magenta|S}}]][[water moccasin|{{red|S}}]][[water troll|{{blue|T}}]][[troll|{{brown|T}}]][[rock troll|{{cyan|T}}]][[Olog-hai|{{magenta|T}}]][[ice troll|{{white|T}}]][[umber hulk|{{brown|U}}]][[vampire lord|{{blue|V}}]][[vampire mage|{{brightblue|V}}]][[Vlad the Impaler|{{magenta|V}}]][[vampire|{{red|V}}]][[wraith|{{blue|W}}]][[barrow wight|{{lightgray|W}}]][[Nazgul|{{magenta|W}}]][[xorn|{{brown|X}}]][[carnivorous ape|{{blue|Y}}]][[ape|{{brown|Y}}]][[owlbear|{{brown|Y}}]][[monkey|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[sasquatch|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[yeti|{{white|Y}}]][[ettin zombie|{{blue|Z}}]][[ghoul|{{blue|Z}}]][[kobold zombie|{{brown|Z}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[gnome zombie|{{brown|Z}}]][[giant zombie|{{cyan|Z}}]][[elf zombie|{{green|Z}}]][[orc zombie|{{lightgray|Z}}]][[dwarf zombie|{{red|Z}}]][[human zombie|{{white|Z}}]][[skeleton|{{white|Z}}]][[water demon|{{blue|&amp;}}]][[mail daemon|{{brightblue|&amp;}}]][[Juiblex|{{brightgreen|&amp;}}]][[horned devil|{{brown|&amp;}}]][[succubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[incubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[bone devil|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[sandestin|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[Yeenoghu|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Orcus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Geryon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Dispater|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Baalzebub|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Asmodeus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Demogorgon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Death|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Pestilence|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Famine|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[erinys|{{red|&amp;}}]][[barbed devil|{{red|&amp;}}]][[marilith|{{red|&amp;}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[vrock|{{red|&amp;}}]][[hezrou|{{red|&amp;}}]][[nalfeshnee|{{red|&amp;}}]][[pit fiend|{{red|&amp;}}]][[balrog|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Minion of Huhetotl|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Nalzok|{{red|&amp;}}]][[ice devil|{{white|&amp;}}]][[djinni|{{yellow|&amp;}}]][[rope golem|{{brown|'}}]][[leather golem|{{brown|'}}]][[wood golem|{{brown|'}}]][[clay golem|{{brown|'}}]][[glass golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[iron golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[stone golem|{{lightgray|'}}]][[flesh golem|{{red|'}}]][[paper golem|{{white|'}}]][[straw golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[gold golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[salamander|{{brightred|:}}]][[iguana|{{brown|:}}]][[baby crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[chameleon|{{brown|:}}]][[crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[gecko|{{green|:}}]][[lizard|{{green|:}}]][[newt|{{yellow|:}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[jellyfish|{{blue|;}}]][[electric eel|{{brightblue|;}}]][[giant eel|{{cyan|;}}]][[shark|{{lightgray|;}}]][[piranha|{{red|;}}]][[kraken|{{red|;}}]][[guard|{{blue|@}}]][[captain|{{blue|@}}]][[Grand Master|{{blue|@}}]][[Dark One|{{blue|@}}]][[elf-lord|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Oracle|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Green-elf|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[Medusa|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[werewolf (human)|{{brightred|@}}]][[wererat (human)|{{brown|@}}]][[Woodland-elf|{{green|@}}]][[lieutenant|{{green|@}}]][[watch captain|{{green|@}}]][[Neferet the Green|{{green|@}}]][[Grey-elf|{{lightgray|@}}]][[soldier|{{lightgray|@}}]][[watchman|{{lightgray|@}}]][[Elvenking|{{magenta|@}}]][[Wizard of Yendor|{{magenta|@}}]][[Croesus|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Carnarvon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Pelias|{{magenta|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[Shaman Karnov|{{magenta|@}}]][[Earendil|{{magenta|@}}]][[Hippocrates|{{magenta|@}}]][[King Arthur|{{magenta|@}}]][[Orion|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master of Thieves|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Sato|{{magenta|@}}]][[Norn|{{magenta|@}}]][[Thoth Amon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Kaen|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Assassin|{{magenta|@}}]][[Ashikaga Takauji|{{magenta|@}}]][[werejackal (human)|{{red|@}}]][[sergeant|{{red|@}}]][[human|{{white|@}}]][[elf|{{white|@}}]][[doppelganger|{{white|@}}]][[nurse|{{white|@}}]][[shopkeeper|{{white|@}}]][[prisoner|{{white|@}}]][[aligned priest|{{white|@}}]][[high priest|{{white|@}}]][[Charon|{{white|@}}]][[archeologist|{{white|@}}]][[barbarian|{{white|@}}]][[caveman|{{white|@}}]][[cavewoman|{{white|@}}]][[healer|{{white|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[knight|{{white|@}}]][[monk|{{white|@}}]][[priest|{{white|@}}]][[priestess|{{white|@}}]][[ranger|{{white|@}}]][[rogue|{{white|@}}]][[samurai|{{white|@}}]][[tourist|{{white|@}}]][[valkyrie|{{white|@}}]][[wizard|{{white|@}}]][[Arch Priest|{{white|@}}]][[Twoflower|{{white|@}}]][[student|{{white|@}}]][[chieftain|{{white|@}}]][[neanderthal|{{white|@}}]][[High-elf|{{white|@}}]][[attendant|{{white|@}}]][[page|{{white|@}}]][[abbot|{{white|@}}]][[acolyte|{{white|@}}]][[hunter|{{white|@}}]][[thug|{{white|@}}]][[ninja|{{white|@}}]][[roshi|{{white|@}}]][[guide|{{white|@}}]][[warrior|{{white|@}}]][[apprentice|{{white|@}}]][[long worm tail|{{brown|~}}]]
|}

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>rm1kiwdv35f2ooda878qailqlpvvesd</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9350</id>
      <parentid>9345</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-08-31T23:14:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>link to new SLASH'EM category</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="13899">__NOTOC__
__NOEDITSECTION__
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:2px;"
|width="60%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; margin-right:2px;"|
{{Currentfeature}}
|width="40%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F;"|
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|style="width: 100%; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|colspan="3" style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestibles]]
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Level]]s
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%"
|width="33%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB;  padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|width="33%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[List of NetHack websites|Websites]]
|width="33%" style="background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]] - [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|-
|colspan="4" width="100%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; text-align:center; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Monster]]s===
[[ghost|{{blue|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[shade|{{blue|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[soldier ant|{{blue|a}}]][[giant beetle|{{blue|a}}]][[giant ant|{{brown|a}}]][[queen bee|{{magenta|a}}]][[fire ant|{{red|a}}]][[killer bee|{{yellow|a}}]][[gelatinous cube|{{cyan|b}}]][[acid blob|{{green|b}}]][[quivering blob|{{white|b}}]][[chickatrice|{{brown|c}}]][[pyrolisk|{{red|c}}]][[cockatrice|{{yellow|c}}]][[jackal|{{brown|d}}]][[coyote|{{brown|d}}]][[werejackal (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[wolf|{{brown|d}}]][[werewolf (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[warg|{{brown|d}}]][[winter wolf cub|{{cyan|d}}]][[winter wolf|{{cyan|d}}]][[fox|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound pup|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound|{{red|d}}]][[Cerberus|{{red|d}}]][[little dog|{{white|d}}]][[dog|{{white|d}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[large dog|{{white|d}}]][[dingo|{{yellow|d}}]][[floating eye|{{blue|e}}]][[shocking sphere|{{brightblue|e}}]][[beholder|{{brown|e}}]][[gas spore|{{lightgray|e}}]][[flaming sphere|{{red|e}}]][[freezing sphere|{{white|e}}]][[panther|{{blue|f}}]][[jaguar|{{brown|f}}]][[lynx|{{cyan|f}}]][[kitten|{{white|f}}]][[housecat|{{white|f}}]][[large cat|{{white|f}}]][[tiger|{{yellow|f}}]][[gargoyle|{{brown|g}}]][[gremlin|{{green|g}}]][[winged gargoyle|{{magenta|g}}]][[dwarf lord|{{blue|h}}]][[bugbear|{{brown|h}}]][[hobbit|{{green|h}}]][[dwarf king|{{magenta|h}}]][[mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[master mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[dwarf|{{red|h}}]][[quasit|{{blue|i}}]][[lemure|{{brown|i}}]][[tengu|{{cyan|i}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[homunculus|{{green|i}}]][[manes|{{red|i}}]][[imp|{{red|i}}]][[blue jelly|{{blue|j}}]][[ochre jelly|{{brown|j}}]][[spotted jelly|{{green|j}}]][[kobold shaman|{{brightblue|k}}]][[kobold|{{brown|k}}]][[kobold lord|{{magenta|k}}]][[large kobold|{{red|k}}]][[leprechaun|{{green|l}}]][[small mimic|{{brown|m}}]][[giant mimic|{{magenta|m}}]][[large mimic|{{red|m}}]][[water nymph|{{blue|n}}]][[mountain nymph|{{brown|n}}]][[wood nymph|{{green|n}}]][[Mordor orc|{{blue|o}}]][[Uruk-hai|{{blue|o}}]][[orc shaman|{{brightblue|o}}]][[hobgoblin|{{brown|o}}]][[goblin|{{lightgray|o}}]][[orc-captain|{{magenta|o}}]][[Goblin King|{{magenta|o}}]][[orc|{{red|o}}]][[hill orc|{{yellow|o}}]][[iron piercer|{{cyan|p}}]][[rock piercer|{{lightgray|p}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[glass piercer|{{white|p}}]][[mastodon|{{blue|q}}]][[rothe|{{brown|q}}]][[wumpus|{{cyan|q}}]][[mumak|{{lightgray|q}}]][[titanothere|{{lightgray|q}}]][[baluchitherium|{{lightgray|q}}]][[leocrotta|{{red|q}}]][[sewer rat|{{brown|r}}]][[giant rat|{{brown|r}}]][[rabid rat|{{brown|r}}]][[wererat (rodent)|{{brown|r}}]][[woodchuck|{{brown|r}}]][[rock mole|{{lightgray|r}}]][[cave spider|{{lightgray|s}}]][[giant spider|{{magenta|s}}]][[Scorpius|{{magenta|s}}]][[scorpion|{{red|s}}]][[centipede|{{yellow|s}}]][[trapper|{{green|t}}]][[lurker above|{{lightgray|t}}]][[black unicorn|{{blue|u}}]][[pony|{{brown|u}}]][[horse|{{brown|u}}]][[warhorse|{{brown|u}}]][[gray unicorn|{{lightgray|u}}]][[white unicorn|{{white|u}}]][[steam vortex|{{blue|v}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[energy vortex|{{brightblue|v}}]][[dust vortex|{{brown|v}}]][[ice vortex|{{cyan|v}}]][[fog cloud|{{lightgray|v}}]][[fire vortex|{{yellow|v}}]][[baby long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[baby purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[grid bug|{{magenta|x}}]][[xan|{{red|x}}]][[black light|{{blue|y}}]][[yellow light|{{yellow|y}}]][[zruty|{{brown|z}}]][[couatl|{{green|A}}]][[Archon|{{magenta|A}}]][[Angel|{{white|A}}]][[Aleax|{{yellow|A}}]][[ki-rin|{{yellow|A}}]][[raven|{{blue|B}}]][[vampire bat|{{blue|B}}]][[bat|{{brown|B}}]][[giant bat|{{red|B}}]][[plains centaur|{{brown|C}}]][[mountain centaur|{{cyan|C}}]][[forest centaur|{{green|C}}]][[baby black dragon|{{blue|D}}]][[baby blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[black dragon|{{blue|D}}]][[blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]][[baby silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[baby orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[baby shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[baby green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[baby gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[Chromatic Dragon|{{magenta|D}}]][[baby red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[Ixoth|{{red|D}}]][[baby white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[baby yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[water elemental|{{blue|E}}]][[earth elemental|{{brown|E}}]][[air elemental|{{cyan|E}}]][[stalker|{{white|E}}]][[fire elemental|{{yellow|E}}]][[lichen|{{brightgreen|F}}]][[brown mold|{{brown|F}}]][[green mold|{{green|F}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[shrieker|{{magenta|F}}]][[violet fungus|{{magenta|F}}]][[red mold|{{red|F}}]][[yellow mold|{{yellow|F}}]][[gnome lord|{{blue|G}}]][[gnomish wizard|{{brightblue|G}}]][[gnome|{{brown|G}}]][[gnome king|{{magenta|G}}]][[storm giant|{{blue|H}}]][[ettin|{{brown|H}}]][[minotaur|{{brown|H}}]][[hill giant|{{cyan|H}}]][[stone giant|{{lightgray|H}}]][[Cyclops|{{lightgray|H}}]][[titan|{{magenta|H}}]][[Lord Surtur|{{magenta|H}}]][[giant|{{red|H}}]][[frost giant|{{white|H}}]][[fire giant|{{yellow|H}}]][[jabberwock|{{brightred|J}}]][[vorpal jabberwock|{{magenta|J}}]][[Keystone Kop|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Sergeant|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Lieutenant|{{cyan|K}}]][[Kop Kaptain|{{magenta|K}}]][[lich|{{brown|L}}]][[master lich|{{magenta|L}}]][[arch-lich|{{magenta|L}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[demilich|{{red|L}}]][[ettin mummy|{{blue|M}}]][[kobold mummy|{{brown|M}}]][[giant mummy|{{cyan|M}}]][[elf mummy|{{green|M}}]][[orc mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[human mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[gnome mummy|{{red|M}}]][[dwarf mummy|{{red|M}}]][[black naga hatchling|{{blue|N}}]][[black naga|{{blue|N}}]][[guardian naga hatchling|{{green|N}}]][[guardian naga|{{green|N}}]][[red naga hatchling|{{red|N}}]][[red naga|{{red|N}}]][[golden naga hatchling|{{yellow|N}}]][[golden naga|{{yellow|N}}]][[ogre|{{brown|O}}]][[ogre king|{{magenta|O}}]][[ogre lord|{{red|O}}]][[black pudding|{{blue|P}}]][[brown pudding|{{brown|P}}]][[green slime|{{green|P}}]][[gray ooze|{{lightgray|P}}]][[quantum mechanic|{{cyan|Q}}]][[disenchanter|{{blue|R}}]][[rust monster|{{brown|R}}]][[pit viper|{{blue|S}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[cobra|{{blue|S}}]][[snake|{{brown|S}}]][[garter snake|{{green|S}}]][[python|{{magenta|S}}]][[water moccasin|{{red|S}}]][[water troll|{{blue|T}}]][[troll|{{brown|T}}]][[rock troll|{{cyan|T}}]][[Olog-hai|{{magenta|T}}]][[ice troll|{{white|T}}]][[umber hulk|{{brown|U}}]][[vampire lord|{{blue|V}}]][[vampire mage|{{brightblue|V}}]][[Vlad the Impaler|{{magenta|V}}]][[vampire|{{red|V}}]][[wraith|{{blue|W}}]][[barrow wight|{{lightgray|W}}]][[Nazgul|{{magenta|W}}]][[xorn|{{brown|X}}]][[carnivorous ape|{{blue|Y}}]][[ape|{{brown|Y}}]][[owlbear|{{brown|Y}}]][[monkey|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[sasquatch|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[yeti|{{white|Y}}]][[ettin zombie|{{blue|Z}}]][[ghoul|{{blue|Z}}]][[kobold zombie|{{brown|Z}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[gnome zombie|{{brown|Z}}]][[giant zombie|{{cyan|Z}}]][[elf zombie|{{green|Z}}]][[orc zombie|{{lightgray|Z}}]][[dwarf zombie|{{red|Z}}]][[human zombie|{{white|Z}}]][[skeleton|{{white|Z}}]][[water demon|{{blue|&amp;}}]][[mail daemon|{{brightblue|&amp;}}]][[Juiblex|{{brightgreen|&amp;}}]][[horned devil|{{brown|&amp;}}]][[succubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[incubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[bone devil|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[sandestin|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[Yeenoghu|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Orcus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Geryon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Dispater|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Baalzebub|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Asmodeus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Demogorgon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Death|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Pestilence|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Famine|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[erinys|{{red|&amp;}}]][[barbed devil|{{red|&amp;}}]][[marilith|{{red|&amp;}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[vrock|{{red|&amp;}}]][[hezrou|{{red|&amp;}}]][[nalfeshnee|{{red|&amp;}}]][[pit fiend|{{red|&amp;}}]][[balrog|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Minion of Huhetotl|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Nalzok|{{red|&amp;}}]][[ice devil|{{white|&amp;}}]][[djinni|{{yellow|&amp;}}]][[rope golem|{{brown|'}}]][[leather golem|{{brown|'}}]][[wood golem|{{brown|'}}]][[clay golem|{{brown|'}}]][[glass golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[iron golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[stone golem|{{lightgray|'}}]][[flesh golem|{{red|'}}]][[paper golem|{{white|'}}]][[straw golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[gold golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[salamander|{{brightred|:}}]][[iguana|{{brown|:}}]][[baby crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[chameleon|{{brown|:}}]][[crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[gecko|{{green|:}}]][[lizard|{{green|:}}]][[newt|{{yellow|:}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[jellyfish|{{blue|;}}]][[electric eel|{{brightblue|;}}]][[giant eel|{{cyan|;}}]][[shark|{{lightgray|;}}]][[piranha|{{red|;}}]][[kraken|{{red|;}}]][[guard|{{blue|@}}]][[captain|{{blue|@}}]][[Grand Master|{{blue|@}}]][[Dark One|{{blue|@}}]][[elf-lord|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Oracle|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Green-elf|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[Medusa|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[werewolf (human)|{{brightred|@}}]][[wererat (human)|{{brown|@}}]][[Woodland-elf|{{green|@}}]][[lieutenant|{{green|@}}]][[watch captain|{{green|@}}]][[Neferet the Green|{{green|@}}]][[Grey-elf|{{lightgray|@}}]][[soldier|{{lightgray|@}}]][[watchman|{{lightgray|@}}]][[Elvenking|{{magenta|@}}]][[Wizard of Yendor|{{magenta|@}}]][[Croesus|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Carnarvon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Pelias|{{magenta|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[Shaman Karnov|{{magenta|@}}]][[Earendil|{{magenta|@}}]][[Hippocrates|{{magenta|@}}]][[King Arthur|{{magenta|@}}]][[Orion|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master of Thieves|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Sato|{{magenta|@}}]][[Norn|{{magenta|@}}]][[Thoth Amon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Kaen|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Assassin|{{magenta|@}}]][[Ashikaga Takauji|{{magenta|@}}]][[werejackal (human)|{{red|@}}]][[sergeant|{{red|@}}]][[human|{{white|@}}]][[elf|{{white|@}}]][[doppelganger|{{white|@}}]][[nurse|{{white|@}}]][[shopkeeper|{{white|@}}]][[prisoner|{{white|@}}]][[aligned priest|{{white|@}}]][[high priest|{{white|@}}]][[Charon|{{white|@}}]][[archeologist|{{white|@}}]][[barbarian|{{white|@}}]][[caveman|{{white|@}}]][[cavewoman|{{white|@}}]][[healer|{{white|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[knight|{{white|@}}]][[monk|{{white|@}}]][[priest|{{white|@}}]][[priestess|{{white|@}}]][[ranger|{{white|@}}]][[rogue|{{white|@}}]][[samurai|{{white|@}}]][[tourist|{{white|@}}]][[valkyrie|{{white|@}}]][[wizard|{{white|@}}]][[Arch Priest|{{white|@}}]][[Twoflower|{{white|@}}]][[student|{{white|@}}]][[chieftain|{{white|@}}]][[neanderthal|{{white|@}}]][[High-elf|{{white|@}}]][[attendant|{{white|@}}]][[page|{{white|@}}]][[abbot|{{white|@}}]][[acolyte|{{white|@}}]][[hunter|{{white|@}}]][[thug|{{white|@}}]][[ninja|{{white|@}}]][[roshi|{{white|@}}]][[guide|{{white|@}}]][[warrior|{{white|@}}]][[apprentice|{{white|@}}]][[long worm tail|{{brown|~}}]]
|}

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>d6p84rwch9a75wwon6c3ks1g92d2ue6</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9867</id>
      <parentid>9350</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-05T14:57:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>News edit link</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="14040">__NOTOC__
__NOEDITSECTION__
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:2px;"
|width="60%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; margin-right:2px;"|
{{Currentfeature}}
|width="40%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F;"|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|style="width: 100%; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|colspan="3" style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestibles]]
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Level]]s
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%"
|width="33%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB;  padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|width="33%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[List of NetHack websites|Websites]]
|width="33%" style="background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]] - [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|-
|colspan="4" width="100%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; text-align:center; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Monster]]s===
[[ghost|{{blue|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[shade|{{blue|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[soldier ant|{{blue|a}}]][[giant beetle|{{blue|a}}]][[giant ant|{{brown|a}}]][[queen bee|{{magenta|a}}]][[fire ant|{{red|a}}]][[killer bee|{{yellow|a}}]][[gelatinous cube|{{cyan|b}}]][[acid blob|{{green|b}}]][[quivering blob|{{white|b}}]][[chickatrice|{{brown|c}}]][[pyrolisk|{{red|c}}]][[cockatrice|{{yellow|c}}]][[jackal|{{brown|d}}]][[coyote|{{brown|d}}]][[werejackal (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[wolf|{{brown|d}}]][[werewolf (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[warg|{{brown|d}}]][[winter wolf cub|{{cyan|d}}]][[winter wolf|{{cyan|d}}]][[fox|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound pup|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound|{{red|d}}]][[Cerberus|{{red|d}}]][[little dog|{{white|d}}]][[dog|{{white|d}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[large dog|{{white|d}}]][[dingo|{{yellow|d}}]][[floating eye|{{blue|e}}]][[shocking sphere|{{brightblue|e}}]][[beholder|{{brown|e}}]][[gas spore|{{lightgray|e}}]][[flaming sphere|{{red|e}}]][[freezing sphere|{{white|e}}]][[panther|{{blue|f}}]][[jaguar|{{brown|f}}]][[lynx|{{cyan|f}}]][[kitten|{{white|f}}]][[housecat|{{white|f}}]][[large cat|{{white|f}}]][[tiger|{{yellow|f}}]][[gargoyle|{{brown|g}}]][[gremlin|{{green|g}}]][[winged gargoyle|{{magenta|g}}]][[dwarf lord|{{blue|h}}]][[bugbear|{{brown|h}}]][[hobbit|{{green|h}}]][[dwarf king|{{magenta|h}}]][[mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[master mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[dwarf|{{red|h}}]][[quasit|{{blue|i}}]][[lemure|{{brown|i}}]][[tengu|{{cyan|i}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[homunculus|{{green|i}}]][[manes|{{red|i}}]][[imp|{{red|i}}]][[blue jelly|{{blue|j}}]][[ochre jelly|{{brown|j}}]][[spotted jelly|{{green|j}}]][[kobold shaman|{{brightblue|k}}]][[kobold|{{brown|k}}]][[kobold lord|{{magenta|k}}]][[large kobold|{{red|k}}]][[leprechaun|{{green|l}}]][[small mimic|{{brown|m}}]][[giant mimic|{{magenta|m}}]][[large mimic|{{red|m}}]][[water nymph|{{blue|n}}]][[mountain nymph|{{brown|n}}]][[wood nymph|{{green|n}}]][[Mordor orc|{{blue|o}}]][[Uruk-hai|{{blue|o}}]][[orc shaman|{{brightblue|o}}]][[hobgoblin|{{brown|o}}]][[goblin|{{lightgray|o}}]][[orc-captain|{{magenta|o}}]][[Goblin King|{{magenta|o}}]][[orc|{{red|o}}]][[hill orc|{{yellow|o}}]][[iron piercer|{{cyan|p}}]][[rock piercer|{{lightgray|p}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[glass piercer|{{white|p}}]][[mastodon|{{blue|q}}]][[rothe|{{brown|q}}]][[wumpus|{{cyan|q}}]][[mumak|{{lightgray|q}}]][[titanothere|{{lightgray|q}}]][[baluchitherium|{{lightgray|q}}]][[leocrotta|{{red|q}}]][[sewer rat|{{brown|r}}]][[giant rat|{{brown|r}}]][[rabid rat|{{brown|r}}]][[wererat (rodent)|{{brown|r}}]][[woodchuck|{{brown|r}}]][[rock mole|{{lightgray|r}}]][[cave spider|{{lightgray|s}}]][[giant spider|{{magenta|s}}]][[Scorpius|{{magenta|s}}]][[scorpion|{{red|s}}]][[centipede|{{yellow|s}}]][[trapper|{{green|t}}]][[lurker above|{{lightgray|t}}]][[black unicorn|{{blue|u}}]][[pony|{{brown|u}}]][[horse|{{brown|u}}]][[warhorse|{{brown|u}}]][[gray unicorn|{{lightgray|u}}]][[white unicorn|{{white|u}}]][[steam vortex|{{blue|v}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[energy vortex|{{brightblue|v}}]][[dust vortex|{{brown|v}}]][[ice vortex|{{cyan|v}}]][[fog cloud|{{lightgray|v}}]][[fire vortex|{{yellow|v}}]][[baby long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[baby purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[grid bug|{{magenta|x}}]][[xan|{{red|x}}]][[black light|{{blue|y}}]][[yellow light|{{yellow|y}}]][[zruty|{{brown|z}}]][[couatl|{{green|A}}]][[Archon|{{magenta|A}}]][[Angel|{{white|A}}]][[Aleax|{{yellow|A}}]][[ki-rin|{{yellow|A}}]][[raven|{{blue|B}}]][[vampire bat|{{blue|B}}]][[bat|{{brown|B}}]][[giant bat|{{red|B}}]][[plains centaur|{{brown|C}}]][[mountain centaur|{{cyan|C}}]][[forest centaur|{{green|C}}]][[baby black dragon|{{blue|D}}]][[baby blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[black dragon|{{blue|D}}]][[blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]][[baby silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[baby orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[baby shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[baby green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[baby gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[Chromatic Dragon|{{magenta|D}}]][[baby red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[Ixoth|{{red|D}}]][[baby white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[baby yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[water elemental|{{blue|E}}]][[earth elemental|{{brown|E}}]][[air elemental|{{cyan|E}}]][[stalker|{{white|E}}]][[fire elemental|{{yellow|E}}]][[lichen|{{brightgreen|F}}]][[brown mold|{{brown|F}}]][[green mold|{{green|F}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[shrieker|{{magenta|F}}]][[violet fungus|{{magenta|F}}]][[red mold|{{red|F}}]][[yellow mold|{{yellow|F}}]][[gnome lord|{{blue|G}}]][[gnomish wizard|{{brightblue|G}}]][[gnome|{{brown|G}}]][[gnome king|{{magenta|G}}]][[storm giant|{{blue|H}}]][[ettin|{{brown|H}}]][[minotaur|{{brown|H}}]][[hill giant|{{cyan|H}}]][[stone giant|{{lightgray|H}}]][[Cyclops|{{lightgray|H}}]][[titan|{{magenta|H}}]][[Lord Surtur|{{magenta|H}}]][[giant|{{red|H}}]][[frost giant|{{white|H}}]][[fire giant|{{yellow|H}}]][[jabberwock|{{brightred|J}}]][[vorpal jabberwock|{{magenta|J}}]][[Keystone Kop|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Sergeant|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Lieutenant|{{cyan|K}}]][[Kop Kaptain|{{magenta|K}}]][[lich|{{brown|L}}]][[master lich|{{magenta|L}}]][[arch-lich|{{magenta|L}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[demilich|{{red|L}}]][[ettin mummy|{{blue|M}}]][[kobold mummy|{{brown|M}}]][[giant mummy|{{cyan|M}}]][[elf mummy|{{green|M}}]][[orc mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[human mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[gnome mummy|{{red|M}}]][[dwarf mummy|{{red|M}}]][[black naga hatchling|{{blue|N}}]][[black naga|{{blue|N}}]][[guardian naga hatchling|{{green|N}}]][[guardian naga|{{green|N}}]][[red naga hatchling|{{red|N}}]][[red naga|{{red|N}}]][[golden naga hatchling|{{yellow|N}}]][[golden naga|{{yellow|N}}]][[ogre|{{brown|O}}]][[ogre king|{{magenta|O}}]][[ogre lord|{{red|O}}]][[black pudding|{{blue|P}}]][[brown pudding|{{brown|P}}]][[green slime|{{green|P}}]][[gray ooze|{{lightgray|P}}]][[quantum mechanic|{{cyan|Q}}]][[disenchanter|{{blue|R}}]][[rust monster|{{brown|R}}]][[pit viper|{{blue|S}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[cobra|{{blue|S}}]][[snake|{{brown|S}}]][[garter snake|{{green|S}}]][[python|{{magenta|S}}]][[water moccasin|{{red|S}}]][[water troll|{{blue|T}}]][[troll|{{brown|T}}]][[rock troll|{{cyan|T}}]][[Olog-hai|{{magenta|T}}]][[ice troll|{{white|T}}]][[umber hulk|{{brown|U}}]][[vampire lord|{{blue|V}}]][[vampire mage|{{brightblue|V}}]][[Vlad the Impaler|{{magenta|V}}]][[vampire|{{red|V}}]][[wraith|{{blue|W}}]][[barrow wight|{{lightgray|W}}]][[Nazgul|{{magenta|W}}]][[xorn|{{brown|X}}]][[carnivorous ape|{{blue|Y}}]][[ape|{{brown|Y}}]][[owlbear|{{brown|Y}}]][[monkey|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[sasquatch|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[yeti|{{white|Y}}]][[ettin zombie|{{blue|Z}}]][[ghoul|{{blue|Z}}]][[kobold zombie|{{brown|Z}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[gnome zombie|{{brown|Z}}]][[giant zombie|{{cyan|Z}}]][[elf zombie|{{green|Z}}]][[orc zombie|{{lightgray|Z}}]][[dwarf zombie|{{red|Z}}]][[human zombie|{{white|Z}}]][[skeleton|{{white|Z}}]][[water demon|{{blue|&amp;}}]][[mail daemon|{{brightblue|&amp;}}]][[Juiblex|{{brightgreen|&amp;}}]][[horned devil|{{brown|&amp;}}]][[succubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[incubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[bone devil|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[sandestin|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[Yeenoghu|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Orcus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Geryon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Dispater|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Baalzebub|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Asmodeus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Demogorgon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Death|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Pestilence|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Famine|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[erinys|{{red|&amp;}}]][[barbed devil|{{red|&amp;}}]][[marilith|{{red|&amp;}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[vrock|{{red|&amp;}}]][[hezrou|{{red|&amp;}}]][[nalfeshnee|{{red|&amp;}}]][[pit fiend|{{red|&amp;}}]][[balrog|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Minion of Huhetotl|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Nalzok|{{red|&amp;}}]][[ice devil|{{white|&amp;}}]][[djinni|{{yellow|&amp;}}]][[rope golem|{{brown|'}}]][[leather golem|{{brown|'}}]][[wood golem|{{brown|'}}]][[clay golem|{{brown|'}}]][[glass golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[iron golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[stone golem|{{lightgray|'}}]][[flesh golem|{{red|'}}]][[paper golem|{{white|'}}]][[straw golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[gold golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[salamander|{{brightred|:}}]][[iguana|{{brown|:}}]][[baby crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[chameleon|{{brown|:}}]][[crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[gecko|{{green|:}}]][[lizard|{{green|:}}]][[newt|{{yellow|:}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[jellyfish|{{blue|;}}]][[electric eel|{{brightblue|;}}]][[giant eel|{{cyan|;}}]][[shark|{{lightgray|;}}]][[piranha|{{red|;}}]][[kraken|{{red|;}}]][[guard|{{blue|@}}]][[captain|{{blue|@}}]][[Grand Master|{{blue|@}}]][[Dark One|{{blue|@}}]][[elf-lord|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Oracle|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Green-elf|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[Medusa|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[werewolf (human)|{{brightred|@}}]][[wererat (human)|{{brown|@}}]][[Woodland-elf|{{green|@}}]][[lieutenant|{{green|@}}]][[watch captain|{{green|@}}]][[Neferet the Green|{{green|@}}]][[Grey-elf|{{lightgray|@}}]][[soldier|{{lightgray|@}}]][[watchman|{{lightgray|@}}]][[Elvenking|{{magenta|@}}]][[Wizard of Yendor|{{magenta|@}}]][[Croesus|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Carnarvon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Pelias|{{magenta|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[Shaman Karnov|{{magenta|@}}]][[Earendil|{{magenta|@}}]][[Hippocrates|{{magenta|@}}]][[King Arthur|{{magenta|@}}]][[Orion|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master of Thieves|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Sato|{{magenta|@}}]][[Norn|{{magenta|@}}]][[Thoth Amon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Kaen|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Assassin|{{magenta|@}}]][[Ashikaga Takauji|{{magenta|@}}]][[werejackal (human)|{{red|@}}]][[sergeant|{{red|@}}]][[human|{{white|@}}]][[elf|{{white|@}}]][[doppelganger|{{white|@}}]][[nurse|{{white|@}}]][[shopkeeper|{{white|@}}]][[prisoner|{{white|@}}]][[aligned priest|{{white|@}}]][[high priest|{{white|@}}]][[Charon|{{white|@}}]][[archeologist|{{white|@}}]][[barbarian|{{white|@}}]][[caveman|{{white|@}}]][[cavewoman|{{white|@}}]][[healer|{{white|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[knight|{{white|@}}]][[monk|{{white|@}}]][[priest|{{white|@}}]][[priestess|{{white|@}}]][[ranger|{{white|@}}]][[rogue|{{white|@}}]][[samurai|{{white|@}}]][[tourist|{{white|@}}]][[valkyrie|{{white|@}}]][[wizard|{{white|@}}]][[Arch Priest|{{white|@}}]][[Twoflower|{{white|@}}]][[student|{{white|@}}]][[chieftain|{{white|@}}]][[neanderthal|{{white|@}}]][[High-elf|{{white|@}}]][[attendant|{{white|@}}]][[page|{{white|@}}]][[abbot|{{white|@}}]][[acolyte|{{white|@}}]][[hunter|{{white|@}}]][[thug|{{white|@}}]][[ninja|{{white|@}}]][[roshi|{{white|@}}]][[guide|{{white|@}}]][[warrior|{{white|@}}]][[apprentice|{{white|@}}]][[long worm tail|{{brown|~}}]]
|}

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
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      <timestamp>2006-09-08T01:49:06Z</timestamp>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="14081">__NOTOC__
__NOEDITSECTION__
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to The Borg!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
We Are The Borg, You Will Be Assimilated
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:2px;"
|width="60%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; margin-right:2px;"|
{{Currentfeature}}
|width="40%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F;"|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|style="width: 100%; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|colspan="3" style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestibles]]
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Level]]s
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%"
|width="33%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB;  padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|width="33%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[List of NetHack websites|Websites]]
|width="33%" style="background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]] - [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|-
|colspan="4" width="100%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; text-align:center; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Monster]]s===
[[ghost|{{blue|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[shade|{{blue|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[soldier ant|{{blue|a}}]][[giant beetle|{{blue|a}}]][[giant ant|{{brown|a}}]][[queen bee|{{magenta|a}}]][[fire ant|{{red|a}}]][[killer bee|{{yellow|a}}]][[gelatinous cube|{{cyan|b}}]][[acid blob|{{green|b}}]][[quivering blob|{{white|b}}]][[chickatrice|{{brown|c}}]][[pyrolisk|{{red|c}}]][[cockatrice|{{yellow|c}}]][[jackal|{{brown|d}}]][[coyote|{{brown|d}}]][[werejackal (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[wolf|{{brown|d}}]][[werewolf (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[warg|{{brown|d}}]][[winter wolf cub|{{cyan|d}}]][[winter wolf|{{cyan|d}}]][[fox|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound pup|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound|{{red|d}}]][[Cerberus|{{red|d}}]][[little dog|{{white|d}}]][[dog|{{white|d}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[large dog|{{white|d}}]][[dingo|{{yellow|d}}]][[floating eye|{{blue|e}}]][[shocking sphere|{{brightblue|e}}]][[beholder|{{brown|e}}]][[gas spore|{{lightgray|e}}]][[flaming sphere|{{red|e}}]][[freezing sphere|{{white|e}}]][[panther|{{blue|f}}]][[jaguar|{{brown|f}}]][[lynx|{{cyan|f}}]][[kitten|{{white|f}}]][[housecat|{{white|f}}]][[large cat|{{white|f}}]][[tiger|{{yellow|f}}]][[gargoyle|{{brown|g}}]][[gremlin|{{green|g}}]][[winged gargoyle|{{magenta|g}}]][[dwarf lord|{{blue|h}}]][[bugbear|{{brown|h}}]][[hobbit|{{green|h}}]][[dwarf king|{{magenta|h}}]][[mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[master mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[dwarf|{{red|h}}]][[quasit|{{blue|i}}]][[lemure|{{brown|i}}]][[tengu|{{cyan|i}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[homunculus|{{green|i}}]][[manes|{{red|i}}]][[imp|{{red|i}}]][[blue jelly|{{blue|j}}]][[ochre jelly|{{brown|j}}]][[spotted jelly|{{green|j}}]][[kobold shaman|{{brightblue|k}}]][[kobold|{{brown|k}}]][[kobold lord|{{magenta|k}}]][[large kobold|{{red|k}}]][[leprechaun|{{green|l}}]][[small mimic|{{brown|m}}]][[giant mimic|{{magenta|m}}]][[large mimic|{{red|m}}]][[water nymph|{{blue|n}}]][[mountain nymph|{{brown|n}}]][[wood nymph|{{green|n}}]][[Mordor orc|{{blue|o}}]][[Uruk-hai|{{blue|o}}]][[orc shaman|{{brightblue|o}}]][[hobgoblin|{{brown|o}}]][[goblin|{{lightgray|o}}]][[orc-captain|{{magenta|o}}]][[Goblin King|{{magenta|o}}]][[orc|{{red|o}}]][[hill orc|{{yellow|o}}]][[iron piercer|{{cyan|p}}]][[rock piercer|{{lightgray|p}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[glass piercer|{{white|p}}]][[mastodon|{{blue|q}}]][[rothe|{{brown|q}}]][[wumpus|{{cyan|q}}]][[mumak|{{lightgray|q}}]][[titanothere|{{lightgray|q}}]][[baluchitherium|{{lightgray|q}}]][[leocrotta|{{red|q}}]][[sewer rat|{{brown|r}}]][[giant rat|{{brown|r}}]][[rabid rat|{{brown|r}}]][[wererat (rodent)|{{brown|r}}]][[woodchuck|{{brown|r}}]][[rock mole|{{lightgray|r}}]][[cave spider|{{lightgray|s}}]][[giant spider|{{magenta|s}}]][[Scorpius|{{magenta|s}}]][[scorpion|{{red|s}}]][[centipede|{{yellow|s}}]][[trapper|{{green|t}}]][[lurker above|{{lightgray|t}}]][[black unicorn|{{blue|u}}]][[pony|{{brown|u}}]][[horse|{{brown|u}}]][[warhorse|{{brown|u}}]][[gray unicorn|{{lightgray|u}}]][[white unicorn|{{white|u}}]][[steam vortex|{{blue|v}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[energy vortex|{{brightblue|v}}]][[dust vortex|{{brown|v}}]][[ice vortex|{{cyan|v}}]][[fog cloud|{{lightgray|v}}]][[fire vortex|{{yellow|v}}]][[baby long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[baby purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[grid bug|{{magenta|x}}]][[xan|{{red|x}}]][[black light|{{blue|y}}]][[yellow light|{{yellow|y}}]][[zruty|{{brown|z}}]][[couatl|{{green|A}}]][[Archon|{{magenta|A}}]][[Angel|{{white|A}}]][[Aleax|{{yellow|A}}]][[ki-rin|{{yellow|A}}]][[raven|{{blue|B}}]][[vampire bat|{{blue|B}}]][[bat|{{brown|B}}]][[giant bat|{{red|B}}]][[plains centaur|{{brown|C}}]][[mountain centaur|{{cyan|C}}]][[forest centaur|{{green|C}}]][[baby black dragon|{{blue|D}}]][[baby blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[black dragon|{{blue|D}}]][[blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]][[baby silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[baby orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[baby shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[baby green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[baby gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[Chromatic Dragon|{{magenta|D}}]][[baby red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[Ixoth|{{red|D}}]][[baby white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[baby yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[water elemental|{{blue|E}}]][[earth elemental|{{brown|E}}]][[air elemental|{{cyan|E}}]][[stalker|{{white|E}}]][[fire elemental|{{yellow|E}}]][[lichen|{{brightgreen|F}}]][[brown mold|{{brown|F}}]][[green mold|{{green|F}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[shrieker|{{magenta|F}}]][[violet fungus|{{magenta|F}}]][[red mold|{{red|F}}]][[yellow mold|{{yellow|F}}]][[gnome lord|{{blue|G}}]][[gnomish wizard|{{brightblue|G}}]][[gnome|{{brown|G}}]][[gnome king|{{magenta|G}}]][[storm giant|{{blue|H}}]][[ettin|{{brown|H}}]][[minotaur|{{brown|H}}]][[hill giant|{{cyan|H}}]][[stone giant|{{lightgray|H}}]][[Cyclops|{{lightgray|H}}]][[titan|{{magenta|H}}]][[Lord Surtur|{{magenta|H}}]][[giant|{{red|H}}]][[frost giant|{{white|H}}]][[fire giant|{{yellow|H}}]][[jabberwock|{{brightred|J}}]][[vorpal jabberwock|{{magenta|J}}]][[Keystone Kop|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Sergeant|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Lieutenant|{{cyan|K}}]][[Kop Kaptain|{{magenta|K}}]][[lich|{{brown|L}}]][[master lich|{{magenta|L}}]][[arch-lich|{{magenta|L}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[demilich|{{red|L}}]][[ettin mummy|{{blue|M}}]][[kobold mummy|{{brown|M}}]][[giant mummy|{{cyan|M}}]][[elf mummy|{{green|M}}]][[orc mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[human mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[gnome mummy|{{red|M}}]][[dwarf mummy|{{red|M}}]][[black naga hatchling|{{blue|N}}]][[black naga|{{blue|N}}]][[guardian naga hatchling|{{green|N}}]][[guardian naga|{{green|N}}]][[red naga hatchling|{{red|N}}]][[red naga|{{red|N}}]][[golden naga hatchling|{{yellow|N}}]][[golden naga|{{yellow|N}}]][[ogre|{{brown|O}}]][[ogre king|{{magenta|O}}]][[ogre lord|{{red|O}}]][[black pudding|{{blue|P}}]][[brown pudding|{{brown|P}}]][[green slime|{{green|P}}]][[gray ooze|{{lightgray|P}}]][[quantum mechanic|{{cyan|Q}}]][[disenchanter|{{blue|R}}]][[rust monster|{{brown|R}}]][[pit viper|{{blue|S}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[cobra|{{blue|S}}]][[snake|{{brown|S}}]][[garter snake|{{green|S}}]][[python|{{magenta|S}}]][[water moccasin|{{red|S}}]][[water troll|{{blue|T}}]][[troll|{{brown|T}}]][[rock troll|{{cyan|T}}]][[Olog-hai|{{magenta|T}}]][[ice troll|{{white|T}}]][[umber hulk|{{brown|U}}]][[vampire lord|{{blue|V}}]][[vampire mage|{{brightblue|V}}]][[Vlad the Impaler|{{magenta|V}}]][[vampire|{{red|V}}]][[wraith|{{blue|W}}]][[barrow wight|{{lightgray|W}}]][[Nazgul|{{magenta|W}}]][[xorn|{{brown|X}}]][[carnivorous ape|{{blue|Y}}]][[ape|{{brown|Y}}]][[owlbear|{{brown|Y}}]][[monkey|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[sasquatch|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[yeti|{{white|Y}}]][[ettin zombie|{{blue|Z}}]][[ghoul|{{blue|Z}}]][[kobold zombie|{{brown|Z}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[gnome zombie|{{brown|Z}}]][[giant zombie|{{cyan|Z}}]][[elf zombie|{{green|Z}}]][[orc zombie|{{lightgray|Z}}]][[dwarf zombie|{{red|Z}}]][[human zombie|{{white|Z}}]][[skeleton|{{white|Z}}]][[water demon|{{blue|&amp;}}]][[mail daemon|{{brightblue|&amp;}}]][[Juiblex|{{brightgreen|&amp;}}]][[horned devil|{{brown|&amp;}}]][[succubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[incubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[bone devil|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[sandestin|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[Yeenoghu|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Orcus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Geryon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Dispater|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Baalzebub|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Asmodeus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Demogorgon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Death|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Pestilence|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Famine|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[erinys|{{red|&amp;}}]][[barbed devil|{{red|&amp;}}]][[marilith|{{red|&amp;}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[vrock|{{red|&amp;}}]][[hezrou|{{red|&amp;}}]][[nalfeshnee|{{red|&amp;}}]][[pit fiend|{{red|&amp;}}]][[balrog|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Minion of Huhetotl|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Nalzok|{{red|&amp;}}]][[ice devil|{{white|&amp;}}]][[djinni|{{yellow|&amp;}}]][[rope golem|{{brown|'}}]][[leather golem|{{brown|'}}]][[wood golem|{{brown|'}}]][[clay golem|{{brown|'}}]][[glass golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[iron golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[stone golem|{{lightgray|'}}]][[flesh golem|{{red|'}}]][[paper golem|{{white|'}}]][[straw golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[gold golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[salamander|{{brightred|:}}]][[iguana|{{brown|:}}]][[baby crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[chameleon|{{brown|:}}]][[crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[gecko|{{green|:}}]][[lizard|{{green|:}}]][[newt|{{yellow|:}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[jellyfish|{{blue|;}}]][[electric eel|{{brightblue|;}}]][[giant eel|{{cyan|;}}]][[shark|{{lightgray|;}}]][[piranha|{{red|;}}]][[kraken|{{red|;}}]][[guard|{{blue|@}}]][[captain|{{blue|@}}]][[Grand Master|{{blue|@}}]][[Dark One|{{blue|@}}]][[elf-lord|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Oracle|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Green-elf|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[Medusa|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[werewolf (human)|{{brightred|@}}]][[wererat (human)|{{brown|@}}]][[Woodland-elf|{{green|@}}]][[lieutenant|{{green|@}}]][[watch captain|{{green|@}}]][[Neferet the Green|{{green|@}}]][[Grey-elf|{{lightgray|@}}]][[soldier|{{lightgray|@}}]][[watchman|{{lightgray|@}}]][[Elvenking|{{magenta|@}}]][[Wizard of Yendor|{{magenta|@}}]][[Croesus|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Carnarvon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Pelias|{{magenta|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[Shaman Karnov|{{magenta|@}}]][[Earendil|{{magenta|@}}]][[Hippocrates|{{magenta|@}}]][[King Arthur|{{magenta|@}}]][[Orion|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master of Thieves|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Sato|{{magenta|@}}]][[Norn|{{magenta|@}}]][[Thoth Amon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Kaen|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Assassin|{{magenta|@}}]][[Ashikaga Takauji|{{magenta|@}}]][[werejackal (human)|{{red|@}}]][[sergeant|{{red|@}}]][[human|{{white|@}}]][[elf|{{white|@}}]][[doppelganger|{{white|@}}]][[nurse|{{white|@}}]][[shopkeeper|{{white|@}}]][[prisoner|{{white|@}}]][[aligned priest|{{white|@}}]][[high priest|{{white|@}}]][[Charon|{{white|@}}]][[archeologist|{{white|@}}]][[barbarian|{{white|@}}]][[caveman|{{white|@}}]][[cavewoman|{{white|@}}]][[healer|{{white|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[knight|{{white|@}}]][[monk|{{white|@}}]][[priest|{{white|@}}]][[priestess|{{white|@}}]][[ranger|{{white|@}}]][[rogue|{{white|@}}]][[samurai|{{white|@}}]][[tourist|{{white|@}}]][[valkyrie|{{white|@}}]][[wizard|{{white|@}}]][[Arch Priest|{{white|@}}]][[Twoflower|{{white|@}}]][[student|{{white|@}}]][[chieftain|{{white|@}}]][[neanderthal|{{white|@}}]][[High-elf|{{white|@}}]][[attendant|{{white|@}}]][[page|{{white|@}}]][[abbot|{{white|@}}]][[acolyte|{{white|@}}]][[hunter|{{white|@}}]][[thug|{{white|@}}]][[ninja|{{white|@}}]][[roshi|{{white|@}}]][[guide|{{white|@}}]][[warrior|{{white|@}}]][[apprentice|{{white|@}}]][[long worm tail|{{brown|~}}]]
|}

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>56k3bsryok2ictfy3w17o56sq4isk2u</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10001</id>
      <parentid>9993</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-08T03:36:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/24.148.129.159|24.148.129.159]] ([[User_talk:24.148.129.159|Talk]]); changed back to last version by [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="14040">__NOTOC__
__NOEDITSECTION__
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:2px;"
|width="60%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; margin-right:2px;"|
{{Currentfeature}}
|width="40%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F;"|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|style="width: 100%; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|colspan="3" style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestibles]]
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Level]]s
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%"
|width="33%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB;  padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|width="33%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[List of NetHack websites|Websites]]
|width="33%" style="background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]] - [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|-
|colspan="4" width="100%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; text-align:center; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Monster]]s===
[[ghost|{{blue|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[shade|{{blue|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[soldier ant|{{blue|a}}]][[giant beetle|{{blue|a}}]][[giant ant|{{brown|a}}]][[queen bee|{{magenta|a}}]][[fire ant|{{red|a}}]][[killer bee|{{yellow|a}}]][[gelatinous cube|{{cyan|b}}]][[acid blob|{{green|b}}]][[quivering blob|{{white|b}}]][[chickatrice|{{brown|c}}]][[pyrolisk|{{red|c}}]][[cockatrice|{{yellow|c}}]][[jackal|{{brown|d}}]][[coyote|{{brown|d}}]][[werejackal (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[wolf|{{brown|d}}]][[werewolf (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[warg|{{brown|d}}]][[winter wolf cub|{{cyan|d}}]][[winter wolf|{{cyan|d}}]][[fox|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound pup|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound|{{red|d}}]][[Cerberus|{{red|d}}]][[little dog|{{white|d}}]][[dog|{{white|d}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[large dog|{{white|d}}]][[dingo|{{yellow|d}}]][[floating eye|{{blue|e}}]][[shocking sphere|{{brightblue|e}}]][[beholder|{{brown|e}}]][[gas spore|{{lightgray|e}}]][[flaming sphere|{{red|e}}]][[freezing sphere|{{white|e}}]][[panther|{{blue|f}}]][[jaguar|{{brown|f}}]][[lynx|{{cyan|f}}]][[kitten|{{white|f}}]][[housecat|{{white|f}}]][[large cat|{{white|f}}]][[tiger|{{yellow|f}}]][[gargoyle|{{brown|g}}]][[gremlin|{{green|g}}]][[winged gargoyle|{{magenta|g}}]][[dwarf lord|{{blue|h}}]][[bugbear|{{brown|h}}]][[hobbit|{{green|h}}]][[dwarf king|{{magenta|h}}]][[mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[master mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[dwarf|{{red|h}}]][[quasit|{{blue|i}}]][[lemure|{{brown|i}}]][[tengu|{{cyan|i}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[homunculus|{{green|i}}]][[manes|{{red|i}}]][[imp|{{red|i}}]][[blue jelly|{{blue|j}}]][[ochre jelly|{{brown|j}}]][[spotted jelly|{{green|j}}]][[kobold shaman|{{brightblue|k}}]][[kobold|{{brown|k}}]][[kobold lord|{{magenta|k}}]][[large kobold|{{red|k}}]][[leprechaun|{{green|l}}]][[small mimic|{{brown|m}}]][[giant mimic|{{magenta|m}}]][[large mimic|{{red|m}}]][[water nymph|{{blue|n}}]][[mountain nymph|{{brown|n}}]][[wood nymph|{{green|n}}]][[Mordor orc|{{blue|o}}]][[Uruk-hai|{{blue|o}}]][[orc shaman|{{brightblue|o}}]][[hobgoblin|{{brown|o}}]][[goblin|{{lightgray|o}}]][[orc-captain|{{magenta|o}}]][[Goblin King|{{magenta|o}}]][[orc|{{red|o}}]][[hill orc|{{yellow|o}}]][[iron piercer|{{cyan|p}}]][[rock piercer|{{lightgray|p}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[glass piercer|{{white|p}}]][[mastodon|{{blue|q}}]][[rothe|{{brown|q}}]][[wumpus|{{cyan|q}}]][[mumak|{{lightgray|q}}]][[titanothere|{{lightgray|q}}]][[baluchitherium|{{lightgray|q}}]][[leocrotta|{{red|q}}]][[sewer rat|{{brown|r}}]][[giant rat|{{brown|r}}]][[rabid rat|{{brown|r}}]][[wererat (rodent)|{{brown|r}}]][[woodchuck|{{brown|r}}]][[rock mole|{{lightgray|r}}]][[cave spider|{{lightgray|s}}]][[giant spider|{{magenta|s}}]][[Scorpius|{{magenta|s}}]][[scorpion|{{red|s}}]][[centipede|{{yellow|s}}]][[trapper|{{green|t}}]][[lurker above|{{lightgray|t}}]][[black unicorn|{{blue|u}}]][[pony|{{brown|u}}]][[horse|{{brown|u}}]][[warhorse|{{brown|u}}]][[gray unicorn|{{lightgray|u}}]][[white unicorn|{{white|u}}]][[steam vortex|{{blue|v}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[energy vortex|{{brightblue|v}}]][[dust vortex|{{brown|v}}]][[ice vortex|{{cyan|v}}]][[fog cloud|{{lightgray|v}}]][[fire vortex|{{yellow|v}}]][[baby long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[baby purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[grid bug|{{magenta|x}}]][[xan|{{red|x}}]][[black light|{{blue|y}}]][[yellow light|{{yellow|y}}]][[zruty|{{brown|z}}]][[couatl|{{green|A}}]][[Archon|{{magenta|A}}]][[Angel|{{white|A}}]][[Aleax|{{yellow|A}}]][[ki-rin|{{yellow|A}}]][[raven|{{blue|B}}]][[vampire bat|{{blue|B}}]][[bat|{{brown|B}}]][[giant bat|{{red|B}}]][[plains centaur|{{brown|C}}]][[mountain centaur|{{cyan|C}}]][[forest centaur|{{green|C}}]][[baby black dragon|{{blue|D}}]][[baby blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[black dragon|{{blue|D}}]][[blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]][[baby silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[baby orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[baby shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[baby green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[baby gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[Chromatic Dragon|{{magenta|D}}]][[baby red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[Ixoth|{{red|D}}]][[baby white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[baby yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[water elemental|{{blue|E}}]][[earth elemental|{{brown|E}}]][[air elemental|{{cyan|E}}]][[stalker|{{white|E}}]][[fire elemental|{{yellow|E}}]][[lichen|{{brightgreen|F}}]][[brown mold|{{brown|F}}]][[green mold|{{green|F}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[shrieker|{{magenta|F}}]][[violet fungus|{{magenta|F}}]][[red mold|{{red|F}}]][[yellow mold|{{yellow|F}}]][[gnome lord|{{blue|G}}]][[gnomish wizard|{{brightblue|G}}]][[gnome|{{brown|G}}]][[gnome king|{{magenta|G}}]][[storm giant|{{blue|H}}]][[ettin|{{brown|H}}]][[minotaur|{{brown|H}}]][[hill giant|{{cyan|H}}]][[stone giant|{{lightgray|H}}]][[Cyclops|{{lightgray|H}}]][[titan|{{magenta|H}}]][[Lord Surtur|{{magenta|H}}]][[giant|{{red|H}}]][[frost giant|{{white|H}}]][[fire giant|{{yellow|H}}]][[jabberwock|{{brightred|J}}]][[vorpal jabberwock|{{magenta|J}}]][[Keystone Kop|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Sergeant|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Lieutenant|{{cyan|K}}]][[Kop Kaptain|{{magenta|K}}]][[lich|{{brown|L}}]][[master lich|{{magenta|L}}]][[arch-lich|{{magenta|L}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[demilich|{{red|L}}]][[ettin mummy|{{blue|M}}]][[kobold mummy|{{brown|M}}]][[giant mummy|{{cyan|M}}]][[elf mummy|{{green|M}}]][[orc mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[human mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[gnome mummy|{{red|M}}]][[dwarf mummy|{{red|M}}]][[black naga hatchling|{{blue|N}}]][[black naga|{{blue|N}}]][[guardian naga hatchling|{{green|N}}]][[guardian naga|{{green|N}}]][[red naga hatchling|{{red|N}}]][[red naga|{{red|N}}]][[golden naga hatchling|{{yellow|N}}]][[golden naga|{{yellow|N}}]][[ogre|{{brown|O}}]][[ogre king|{{magenta|O}}]][[ogre lord|{{red|O}}]][[black pudding|{{blue|P}}]][[brown pudding|{{brown|P}}]][[green slime|{{green|P}}]][[gray ooze|{{lightgray|P}}]][[quantum mechanic|{{cyan|Q}}]][[disenchanter|{{blue|R}}]][[rust monster|{{brown|R}}]][[pit viper|{{blue|S}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[cobra|{{blue|S}}]][[snake|{{brown|S}}]][[garter snake|{{green|S}}]][[python|{{magenta|S}}]][[water moccasin|{{red|S}}]][[water troll|{{blue|T}}]][[troll|{{brown|T}}]][[rock troll|{{cyan|T}}]][[Olog-hai|{{magenta|T}}]][[ice troll|{{white|T}}]][[umber hulk|{{brown|U}}]][[vampire lord|{{blue|V}}]][[vampire mage|{{brightblue|V}}]][[Vlad the Impaler|{{magenta|V}}]][[vampire|{{red|V}}]][[wraith|{{blue|W}}]][[barrow wight|{{lightgray|W}}]][[Nazgul|{{magenta|W}}]][[xorn|{{brown|X}}]][[carnivorous ape|{{blue|Y}}]][[ape|{{brown|Y}}]][[owlbear|{{brown|Y}}]][[monkey|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[sasquatch|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[yeti|{{white|Y}}]][[ettin zombie|{{blue|Z}}]][[ghoul|{{blue|Z}}]][[kobold zombie|{{brown|Z}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[gnome zombie|{{brown|Z}}]][[giant zombie|{{cyan|Z}}]][[elf zombie|{{green|Z}}]][[orc zombie|{{lightgray|Z}}]][[dwarf zombie|{{red|Z}}]][[human zombie|{{white|Z}}]][[skeleton|{{white|Z}}]][[water demon|{{blue|&amp;}}]][[mail daemon|{{brightblue|&amp;}}]][[Juiblex|{{brightgreen|&amp;}}]][[horned devil|{{brown|&amp;}}]][[succubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[incubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[bone devil|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[sandestin|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[Yeenoghu|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Orcus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Geryon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Dispater|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Baalzebub|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Asmodeus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Demogorgon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Death|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Pestilence|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Famine|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[erinys|{{red|&amp;}}]][[barbed devil|{{red|&amp;}}]][[marilith|{{red|&amp;}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[vrock|{{red|&amp;}}]][[hezrou|{{red|&amp;}}]][[nalfeshnee|{{red|&amp;}}]][[pit fiend|{{red|&amp;}}]][[balrog|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Minion of Huhetotl|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Nalzok|{{red|&amp;}}]][[ice devil|{{white|&amp;}}]][[djinni|{{yellow|&amp;}}]][[rope golem|{{brown|'}}]][[leather golem|{{brown|'}}]][[wood golem|{{brown|'}}]][[clay golem|{{brown|'}}]][[glass golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[iron golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[stone golem|{{lightgray|'}}]][[flesh golem|{{red|'}}]][[paper golem|{{white|'}}]][[straw golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[gold golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[salamander|{{brightred|:}}]][[iguana|{{brown|:}}]][[baby crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[chameleon|{{brown|:}}]][[crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[gecko|{{green|:}}]][[lizard|{{green|:}}]][[newt|{{yellow|:}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[jellyfish|{{blue|;}}]][[electric eel|{{brightblue|;}}]][[giant eel|{{cyan|;}}]][[shark|{{lightgray|;}}]][[piranha|{{red|;}}]][[kraken|{{red|;}}]][[guard|{{blue|@}}]][[captain|{{blue|@}}]][[Grand Master|{{blue|@}}]][[Dark One|{{blue|@}}]][[elf-lord|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Oracle|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Green-elf|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[Medusa|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[werewolf (human)|{{brightred|@}}]][[wererat (human)|{{brown|@}}]][[Woodland-elf|{{green|@}}]][[lieutenant|{{green|@}}]][[watch captain|{{green|@}}]][[Neferet the Green|{{green|@}}]][[Grey-elf|{{lightgray|@}}]][[soldier|{{lightgray|@}}]][[watchman|{{lightgray|@}}]][[Elvenking|{{magenta|@}}]][[Wizard of Yendor|{{magenta|@}}]][[Croesus|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Carnarvon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Pelias|{{magenta|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[Shaman Karnov|{{magenta|@}}]][[Earendil|{{magenta|@}}]][[Hippocrates|{{magenta|@}}]][[King Arthur|{{magenta|@}}]][[Orion|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master of Thieves|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Sato|{{magenta|@}}]][[Norn|{{magenta|@}}]][[Thoth Amon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Kaen|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Assassin|{{magenta|@}}]][[Ashikaga Takauji|{{magenta|@}}]][[werejackal (human)|{{red|@}}]][[sergeant|{{red|@}}]][[human|{{white|@}}]][[elf|{{white|@}}]][[doppelganger|{{white|@}}]][[nurse|{{white|@}}]][[shopkeeper|{{white|@}}]][[prisoner|{{white|@}}]][[aligned priest|{{white|@}}]][[high priest|{{white|@}}]][[Charon|{{white|@}}]][[archeologist|{{white|@}}]][[barbarian|{{white|@}}]][[caveman|{{white|@}}]][[cavewoman|{{white|@}}]][[healer|{{white|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[knight|{{white|@}}]][[monk|{{white|@}}]][[priest|{{white|@}}]][[priestess|{{white|@}}]][[ranger|{{white|@}}]][[rogue|{{white|@}}]][[samurai|{{white|@}}]][[tourist|{{white|@}}]][[valkyrie|{{white|@}}]][[wizard|{{white|@}}]][[Arch Priest|{{white|@}}]][[Twoflower|{{white|@}}]][[student|{{white|@}}]][[chieftain|{{white|@}}]][[neanderthal|{{white|@}}]][[High-elf|{{white|@}}]][[attendant|{{white|@}}]][[page|{{white|@}}]][[abbot|{{white|@}}]][[acolyte|{{white|@}}]][[hunter|{{white|@}}]][[thug|{{white|@}}]][[ninja|{{white|@}}]][[roshi|{{white|@}}]][[guide|{{white|@}}]][[warrior|{{white|@}}]][[apprentice|{{white|@}}]][[long worm tail|{{brown|~}}]]
|}

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>djahkdh644vnchk6uk7pahcfqnjza26</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10611</id>
      <parentid>10001</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-18T00:44:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Rieke Hain</username>
        <id>692</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>this should help</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="14039">&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:2px;"
|width="60%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; margin-right:2px;"|
{{Currentfeature}}
|width="40%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F;"|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|style="width: 100%; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|colspan="3" style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestibles]]
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Level]]s
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%"
|width="33%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB;  padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|width="33%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[List of NetHack websites|Websites]]
|width="33%" style="background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]] - [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|-
|colspan="4" width="100%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; text-align:center; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Monster]]s===
[[ghost|{{blue|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[shade|{{blue|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[soldier ant|{{blue|a}}]][[giant beetle|{{blue|a}}]][[giant ant|{{brown|a}}]][[queen bee|{{magenta|a}}]][[fire ant|{{red|a}}]][[killer bee|{{yellow|a}}]][[gelatinous cube|{{cyan|b}}]][[acid blob|{{green|b}}]][[quivering blob|{{white|b}}]][[chickatrice|{{brown|c}}]][[pyrolisk|{{red|c}}]][[cockatrice|{{yellow|c}}]][[jackal|{{brown|d}}]][[coyote|{{brown|d}}]][[werejackal (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[wolf|{{brown|d}}]][[werewolf (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[warg|{{brown|d}}]][[winter wolf cub|{{cyan|d}}]][[winter wolf|{{cyan|d}}]][[fox|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound pup|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound|{{red|d}}]][[Cerberus|{{red|d}}]][[little dog|{{white|d}}]][[dog|{{white|d}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[large dog|{{white|d}}]][[dingo|{{yellow|d}}]][[floating eye|{{blue|e}}]][[shocking sphere|{{brightblue|e}}]][[beholder|{{brown|e}}]][[gas spore|{{lightgray|e}}]][[flaming sphere|{{red|e}}]][[freezing sphere|{{white|e}}]][[panther|{{blue|f}}]][[jaguar|{{brown|f}}]][[lynx|{{cyan|f}}]][[kitten|{{white|f}}]][[housecat|{{white|f}}]][[large cat|{{white|f}}]][[tiger|{{yellow|f}}]][[gargoyle|{{brown|g}}]][[gremlin|{{green|g}}]][[winged gargoyle|{{magenta|g}}]][[dwarf lord|{{blue|h}}]][[bugbear|{{brown|h}}]][[hobbit|{{green|h}}]][[dwarf king|{{magenta|h}}]][[mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[master mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[dwarf|{{red|h}}]][[quasit|{{blue|i}}]][[lemure|{{brown|i}}]][[tengu|{{cyan|i}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[homunculus|{{green|i}}]][[manes|{{red|i}}]][[imp|{{red|i}}]][[blue jelly|{{blue|j}}]][[ochre jelly|{{brown|j}}]][[spotted jelly|{{green|j}}]][[kobold shaman|{{brightblue|k}}]][[kobold|{{brown|k}}]][[kobold lord|{{magenta|k}}]][[large kobold|{{red|k}}]][[leprechaun|{{green|l}}]][[small mimic|{{brown|m}}]][[giant mimic|{{magenta|m}}]][[large mimic|{{red|m}}]][[water nymph|{{blue|n}}]][[mountain nymph|{{brown|n}}]][[wood nymph|{{green|n}}]][[Mordor orc|{{blue|o}}]][[Uruk-hai|{{blue|o}}]][[orc shaman|{{brightblue|o}}]][[hobgoblin|{{brown|o}}]][[goblin|{{lightgray|o}}]][[orc-captain|{{magenta|o}}]][[Goblin King|{{magenta|o}}]][[orc|{{red|o}}]][[hill orc|{{yellow|o}}]][[iron piercer|{{cyan|p}}]][[rock piercer|{{lightgray|p}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[glass piercer|{{white|p}}]][[mastodon|{{blue|q}}]][[rothe|{{brown|q}}]][[wumpus|{{cyan|q}}]][[mumak|{{lightgray|q}}]][[titanothere|{{lightgray|q}}]][[baluchitherium|{{lightgray|q}}]][[leocrotta|{{red|q}}]][[sewer rat|{{brown|r}}]][[giant rat|{{brown|r}}]][[rabid rat|{{brown|r}}]][[wererat (rodent)|{{brown|r}}]][[woodchuck|{{brown|r}}]][[rock mole|{{lightgray|r}}]][[cave spider|{{lightgray|s}}]][[giant spider|{{magenta|s}}]][[Scorpius|{{magenta|s}}]][[scorpion|{{red|s}}]][[centipede|{{yellow|s}}]][[trapper|{{green|t}}]][[lurker above|{{lightgray|t}}]][[black unicorn|{{blue|u}}]][[pony|{{brown|u}}]][[horse|{{brown|u}}]][[warhorse|{{brown|u}}]][[gray unicorn|{{lightgray|u}}]][[white unicorn|{{white|u}}]][[steam vortex|{{blue|v}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[energy vortex|{{brightblue|v}}]][[dust vortex|{{brown|v}}]][[ice vortex|{{cyan|v}}]][[fog cloud|{{lightgray|v}}]][[fire vortex|{{yellow|v}}]][[baby long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[baby purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[grid bug|{{magenta|x}}]][[xan|{{red|x}}]][[black light|{{blue|y}}]][[yellow light|{{yellow|y}}]][[zruty|{{brown|z}}]][[couatl|{{green|A}}]][[Archon|{{magenta|A}}]][[Angel|{{white|A}}]][[Aleax|{{yellow|A}}]][[ki-rin|{{yellow|A}}]][[raven|{{blue|B}}]][[vampire bat|{{blue|B}}]][[bat|{{brown|B}}]][[giant bat|{{red|B}}]][[plains centaur|{{brown|C}}]][[mountain centaur|{{cyan|C}}]][[forest centaur|{{green|C}}]][[baby black dragon|{{blue|D}}]][[baby blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[black dragon|{{blue|D}}]][[blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]][[baby silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[baby orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[baby shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[baby green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[baby gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[Chromatic Dragon|{{magenta|D}}]][[baby red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[Ixoth|{{red|D}}]][[baby white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[baby yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[water elemental|{{blue|E}}]][[earth elemental|{{brown|E}}]][[air elemental|{{cyan|E}}]][[stalker|{{white|E}}]][[fire elemental|{{yellow|E}}]][[lichen|{{brightgreen|F}}]][[brown mold|{{brown|F}}]][[green mold|{{green|F}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[shrieker|{{magenta|F}}]][[violet fungus|{{magenta|F}}]][[red mold|{{red|F}}]][[yellow mold|{{yellow|F}}]][[gnome lord|{{blue|G}}]][[gnomish wizard|{{brightblue|G}}]][[gnome|{{brown|G}}]][[gnome king|{{magenta|G}}]][[storm giant|{{blue|H}}]][[ettin|{{brown|H}}]][[minotaur|{{brown|H}}]][[hill giant|{{cyan|H}}]][[stone giant|{{lightgray|H}}]][[Cyclops|{{lightgray|H}}]][[titan|{{magenta|H}}]][[Lord Surtur|{{magenta|H}}]][[giant|{{red|H}}]][[frost giant|{{white|H}}]][[fire giant|{{yellow|H}}]][[jabberwock|{{brightred|J}}]][[vorpal jabberwock|{{magenta|J}}]][[Keystone Kop|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Sergeant|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Lieutenant|{{cyan|K}}]][[Kop Kaptain|{{magenta|K}}]][[lich|{{brown|L}}]][[master lich|{{magenta|L}}]][[arch-lich|{{magenta|L}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[demilich|{{red|L}}]][[ettin mummy|{{blue|M}}]][[kobold mummy|{{brown|M}}]][[giant mummy|{{cyan|M}}]][[elf mummy|{{green|M}}]][[orc mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[human mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[gnome mummy|{{red|M}}]][[dwarf mummy|{{red|M}}]][[black naga hatchling|{{blue|N}}]][[black naga|{{blue|N}}]][[guardian naga hatchling|{{green|N}}]][[guardian naga|{{green|N}}]][[red naga hatchling|{{red|N}}]][[red naga|{{red|N}}]][[golden naga hatchling|{{yellow|N}}]][[golden naga|{{yellow|N}}]][[ogre|{{brown|O}}]][[ogre king|{{magenta|O}}]][[ogre lord|{{red|O}}]][[black pudding|{{blue|P}}]][[brown pudding|{{brown|P}}]][[green slime|{{green|P}}]][[gray ooze|{{lightgray|P}}]][[quantum mechanic|{{cyan|Q}}]][[disenchanter|{{blue|R}}]][[rust monster|{{brown|R}}]][[pit viper|{{blue|S}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[cobra|{{blue|S}}]][[snake|{{brown|S}}]][[garter snake|{{green|S}}]][[python|{{magenta|S}}]][[water moccasin|{{red|S}}]][[water troll|{{blue|T}}]][[troll|{{brown|T}}]][[rock troll|{{cyan|T}}]][[Olog-hai|{{magenta|T}}]][[ice troll|{{white|T}}]][[umber hulk|{{brown|U}}]][[vampire lord|{{blue|V}}]][[vampire mage|{{brightblue|V}}]][[Vlad the Impaler|{{magenta|V}}]][[vampire|{{red|V}}]][[wraith|{{blue|W}}]][[barrow wight|{{lightgray|W}}]][[Nazgul|{{magenta|W}}]][[xorn|{{brown|X}}]][[carnivorous ape|{{blue|Y}}]][[ape|{{brown|Y}}]][[owlbear|{{brown|Y}}]][[monkey|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[sasquatch|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[yeti|{{white|Y}}]][[ettin zombie|{{blue|Z}}]][[ghoul|{{blue|Z}}]][[kobold zombie|{{brown|Z}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[gnome zombie|{{brown|Z}}]][[giant zombie|{{cyan|Z}}]][[elf zombie|{{green|Z}}]][[orc zombie|{{lightgray|Z}}]][[dwarf zombie|{{red|Z}}]][[human zombie|{{white|Z}}]][[skeleton|{{white|Z}}]][[water demon|{{blue|&amp;}}]][[mail daemon|{{brightblue|&amp;}}]][[Juiblex|{{brightgreen|&amp;}}]][[horned devil|{{brown|&amp;}}]][[succubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[incubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[bone devil|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[sandestin|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[Yeenoghu|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Orcus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Geryon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Dispater|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Baalzebub|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Asmodeus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Demogorgon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Death|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Pestilence|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Famine|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[erinys|{{red|&amp;}}]][[barbed devil|{{red|&amp;}}]][[marilith|{{red|&amp;}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[vrock|{{red|&amp;}}]][[hezrou|{{red|&amp;}}]][[nalfeshnee|{{red|&amp;}}]][[pit fiend|{{red|&amp;}}]][[balrog|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Minion of Huhetotl|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Nalzok|{{red|&amp;}}]][[ice devil|{{white|&amp;}}]][[djinni|{{yellow|&amp;}}]][[rope golem|{{brown|'}}]][[leather golem|{{brown|'}}]][[wood golem|{{brown|'}}]][[clay golem|{{brown|'}}]][[glass golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[iron golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[stone golem|{{lightgray|'}}]][[flesh golem|{{red|'}}]][[paper golem|{{white|'}}]][[straw golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[gold golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[salamander|{{brightred|:}}]][[iguana|{{brown|:}}]][[baby crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[chameleon|{{brown|:}}]][[crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[gecko|{{green|:}}]][[lizard|{{green|:}}]][[newt|{{yellow|:}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[jellyfish|{{blue|;}}]][[electric eel|{{brightblue|;}}]][[giant eel|{{cyan|;}}]][[shark|{{lightgray|;}}]][[piranha|{{red|;}}]][[kraken|{{red|;}}]][[guard|{{blue|@}}]][[captain|{{blue|@}}]][[Grand Master|{{blue|@}}]][[Dark One|{{blue|@}}]][[elf-lord|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Oracle|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Green-elf|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[Medusa|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[werewolf (human)|{{brightred|@}}]][[wererat (human)|{{brown|@}}]][[Woodland-elf|{{green|@}}]][[lieutenant|{{green|@}}]][[watch captain|{{green|@}}]][[Neferet the Green|{{green|@}}]][[Grey-elf|{{lightgray|@}}]][[soldier|{{lightgray|@}}]][[watchman|{{lightgray|@}}]][[Elvenking|{{magenta|@}}]][[Wizard of Yendor|{{magenta|@}}]][[Croesus|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Carnarvon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Pelias|{{magenta|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[Shaman Karnov|{{magenta|@}}]][[Earendil|{{magenta|@}}]][[Hippocrates|{{magenta|@}}]][[King Arthur|{{magenta|@}}]][[Orion|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master of Thieves|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Sato|{{magenta|@}}]][[Norn|{{magenta|@}}]][[Thoth Amon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Kaen|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Assassin|{{magenta|@}}]][[Ashikaga Takauji|{{magenta|@}}]][[werejackal (human)|{{red|@}}]][[sergeant|{{red|@}}]][[human|{{white|@}}]][[elf|{{white|@}}]][[doppelganger|{{white|@}}]][[nurse|{{white|@}}]][[shopkeeper|{{white|@}}]][[prisoner|{{white|@}}]][[aligned priest|{{white|@}}]][[high priest|{{white|@}}]][[Charon|{{white|@}}]][[archeologist|{{white|@}}]][[barbarian|{{white|@}}]][[caveman|{{white|@}}]][[cavewoman|{{white|@}}]][[healer|{{white|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[knight|{{white|@}}]][[monk|{{white|@}}]][[priest|{{white|@}}]][[priestess|{{white|@}}]][[ranger|{{white|@}}]][[rogue|{{white|@}}]][[samurai|{{white|@}}]][[tourist|{{white|@}}]][[valkyrie|{{white|@}}]][[wizard|{{white|@}}]][[Arch Priest|{{white|@}}]][[Twoflower|{{white|@}}]][[student|{{white|@}}]][[chieftain|{{white|@}}]][[neanderthal|{{white|@}}]][[High-elf|{{white|@}}]][[attendant|{{white|@}}]][[page|{{white|@}}]][[abbot|{{white|@}}]][[acolyte|{{white|@}}]][[hunter|{{white|@}}]][[thug|{{white|@}}]][[ninja|{{white|@}}]][[roshi|{{white|@}}]][[guide|{{white|@}}]][[warrior|{{white|@}}]][[apprentice|{{white|@}}]][[long worm tail|{{brown|~}}]]
|}
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>laqrfugiyopp5yi1r0aahso7bgzdbqk</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10955</id>
      <parentid>10611</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-23T15:37:37Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Try using vertical-align: top;</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="14081">&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:2px;"
|width="60%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; margin-right:2px; vertical-align: top;"|
{{Currentfeature}}
|width="40%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|style="width: 100%; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|colspan="3" style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestibles]]
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Level]]s
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%"
|width="33%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB;  padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|width="33%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[List of NetHack websites|Websites]]
|width="33%" style="background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]] - [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|-
|colspan="4" width="100%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; text-align:center; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Monster]]s===
[[ghost|{{blue|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[shade|{{blue|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[soldier ant|{{blue|a}}]][[giant beetle|{{blue|a}}]][[giant ant|{{brown|a}}]][[queen bee|{{magenta|a}}]][[fire ant|{{red|a}}]][[killer bee|{{yellow|a}}]][[gelatinous cube|{{cyan|b}}]][[acid blob|{{green|b}}]][[quivering blob|{{white|b}}]][[chickatrice|{{brown|c}}]][[pyrolisk|{{red|c}}]][[cockatrice|{{yellow|c}}]][[jackal|{{brown|d}}]][[coyote|{{brown|d}}]][[werejackal (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[wolf|{{brown|d}}]][[werewolf (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[warg|{{brown|d}}]][[winter wolf cub|{{cyan|d}}]][[winter wolf|{{cyan|d}}]][[fox|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound pup|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound|{{red|d}}]][[Cerberus|{{red|d}}]][[little dog|{{white|d}}]][[dog|{{white|d}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[large dog|{{white|d}}]][[dingo|{{yellow|d}}]][[floating eye|{{blue|e}}]][[shocking sphere|{{brightblue|e}}]][[beholder|{{brown|e}}]][[gas spore|{{lightgray|e}}]][[flaming sphere|{{red|e}}]][[freezing sphere|{{white|e}}]][[panther|{{blue|f}}]][[jaguar|{{brown|f}}]][[lynx|{{cyan|f}}]][[kitten|{{white|f}}]][[housecat|{{white|f}}]][[large cat|{{white|f}}]][[tiger|{{yellow|f}}]][[gargoyle|{{brown|g}}]][[gremlin|{{green|g}}]][[winged gargoyle|{{magenta|g}}]][[dwarf lord|{{blue|h}}]][[bugbear|{{brown|h}}]][[hobbit|{{green|h}}]][[dwarf king|{{magenta|h}}]][[mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[master mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[dwarf|{{red|h}}]][[quasit|{{blue|i}}]][[lemure|{{brown|i}}]][[tengu|{{cyan|i}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[homunculus|{{green|i}}]][[manes|{{red|i}}]][[imp|{{red|i}}]][[blue jelly|{{blue|j}}]][[ochre jelly|{{brown|j}}]][[spotted jelly|{{green|j}}]][[kobold shaman|{{brightblue|k}}]][[kobold|{{brown|k}}]][[kobold lord|{{magenta|k}}]][[large kobold|{{red|k}}]][[leprechaun|{{green|l}}]][[small mimic|{{brown|m}}]][[giant mimic|{{magenta|m}}]][[large mimic|{{red|m}}]][[water nymph|{{blue|n}}]][[mountain nymph|{{brown|n}}]][[wood nymph|{{green|n}}]][[Mordor orc|{{blue|o}}]][[Uruk-hai|{{blue|o}}]][[orc shaman|{{brightblue|o}}]][[hobgoblin|{{brown|o}}]][[goblin|{{lightgray|o}}]][[orc-captain|{{magenta|o}}]][[Goblin King|{{magenta|o}}]][[orc|{{red|o}}]][[hill orc|{{yellow|o}}]][[iron piercer|{{cyan|p}}]][[rock piercer|{{lightgray|p}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[glass piercer|{{white|p}}]][[mastodon|{{blue|q}}]][[rothe|{{brown|q}}]][[wumpus|{{cyan|q}}]][[mumak|{{lightgray|q}}]][[titanothere|{{lightgray|q}}]][[baluchitherium|{{lightgray|q}}]][[leocrotta|{{red|q}}]][[sewer rat|{{brown|r}}]][[giant rat|{{brown|r}}]][[rabid rat|{{brown|r}}]][[wererat (rodent)|{{brown|r}}]][[woodchuck|{{brown|r}}]][[rock mole|{{lightgray|r}}]][[cave spider|{{lightgray|s}}]][[giant spider|{{magenta|s}}]][[Scorpius|{{magenta|s}}]][[scorpion|{{red|s}}]][[centipede|{{yellow|s}}]][[trapper|{{green|t}}]][[lurker above|{{lightgray|t}}]][[black unicorn|{{blue|u}}]][[pony|{{brown|u}}]][[horse|{{brown|u}}]][[warhorse|{{brown|u}}]][[gray unicorn|{{lightgray|u}}]][[white unicorn|{{white|u}}]][[steam vortex|{{blue|v}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[energy vortex|{{brightblue|v}}]][[dust vortex|{{brown|v}}]][[ice vortex|{{cyan|v}}]][[fog cloud|{{lightgray|v}}]][[fire vortex|{{yellow|v}}]][[baby long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[baby purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[grid bug|{{magenta|x}}]][[xan|{{red|x}}]][[black light|{{blue|y}}]][[yellow light|{{yellow|y}}]][[zruty|{{brown|z}}]][[couatl|{{green|A}}]][[Archon|{{magenta|A}}]][[Angel|{{white|A}}]][[Aleax|{{yellow|A}}]][[ki-rin|{{yellow|A}}]][[raven|{{blue|B}}]][[vampire bat|{{blue|B}}]][[bat|{{brown|B}}]][[giant bat|{{red|B}}]][[plains centaur|{{brown|C}}]][[mountain centaur|{{cyan|C}}]][[forest centaur|{{green|C}}]][[baby black dragon|{{blue|D}}]][[baby blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[black dragon|{{blue|D}}]][[blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]][[baby silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[baby orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[baby shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[baby green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[baby gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[Chromatic Dragon|{{magenta|D}}]][[baby red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[Ixoth|{{red|D}}]][[baby white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[baby yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[water elemental|{{blue|E}}]][[earth elemental|{{brown|E}}]][[air elemental|{{cyan|E}}]][[stalker|{{white|E}}]][[fire elemental|{{yellow|E}}]][[lichen|{{brightgreen|F}}]][[brown mold|{{brown|F}}]][[green mold|{{green|F}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[shrieker|{{magenta|F}}]][[violet fungus|{{magenta|F}}]][[red mold|{{red|F}}]][[yellow mold|{{yellow|F}}]][[gnome lord|{{blue|G}}]][[gnomish wizard|{{brightblue|G}}]][[gnome|{{brown|G}}]][[gnome king|{{magenta|G}}]][[storm giant|{{blue|H}}]][[ettin|{{brown|H}}]][[minotaur|{{brown|H}}]][[hill giant|{{cyan|H}}]][[stone giant|{{lightgray|H}}]][[Cyclops|{{lightgray|H}}]][[titan|{{magenta|H}}]][[Lord Surtur|{{magenta|H}}]][[giant|{{red|H}}]][[frost giant|{{white|H}}]][[fire giant|{{yellow|H}}]][[jabberwock|{{brightred|J}}]][[vorpal jabberwock|{{magenta|J}}]][[Keystone Kop|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Sergeant|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Lieutenant|{{cyan|K}}]][[Kop Kaptain|{{magenta|K}}]][[lich|{{brown|L}}]][[master lich|{{magenta|L}}]][[arch-lich|{{magenta|L}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[demilich|{{red|L}}]][[ettin mummy|{{blue|M}}]][[kobold mummy|{{brown|M}}]][[giant mummy|{{cyan|M}}]][[elf mummy|{{green|M}}]][[orc mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[human mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[gnome mummy|{{red|M}}]][[dwarf mummy|{{red|M}}]][[black naga hatchling|{{blue|N}}]][[black naga|{{blue|N}}]][[guardian naga hatchling|{{green|N}}]][[guardian naga|{{green|N}}]][[red naga hatchling|{{red|N}}]][[red naga|{{red|N}}]][[golden naga hatchling|{{yellow|N}}]][[golden naga|{{yellow|N}}]][[ogre|{{brown|O}}]][[ogre king|{{magenta|O}}]][[ogre lord|{{red|O}}]][[black pudding|{{blue|P}}]][[brown pudding|{{brown|P}}]][[green slime|{{green|P}}]][[gray ooze|{{lightgray|P}}]][[quantum mechanic|{{cyan|Q}}]][[disenchanter|{{blue|R}}]][[rust monster|{{brown|R}}]][[pit viper|{{blue|S}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[cobra|{{blue|S}}]][[snake|{{brown|S}}]][[garter snake|{{green|S}}]][[python|{{magenta|S}}]][[water moccasin|{{red|S}}]][[water troll|{{blue|T}}]][[troll|{{brown|T}}]][[rock troll|{{cyan|T}}]][[Olog-hai|{{magenta|T}}]][[ice troll|{{white|T}}]][[umber hulk|{{brown|U}}]][[vampire lord|{{blue|V}}]][[vampire mage|{{brightblue|V}}]][[Vlad the Impaler|{{magenta|V}}]][[vampire|{{red|V}}]][[wraith|{{blue|W}}]][[barrow wight|{{lightgray|W}}]][[Nazgul|{{magenta|W}}]][[xorn|{{brown|X}}]][[carnivorous ape|{{blue|Y}}]][[ape|{{brown|Y}}]][[owlbear|{{brown|Y}}]][[monkey|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[sasquatch|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[yeti|{{white|Y}}]][[ettin zombie|{{blue|Z}}]][[ghoul|{{blue|Z}}]][[kobold zombie|{{brown|Z}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[gnome zombie|{{brown|Z}}]][[giant zombie|{{cyan|Z}}]][[elf zombie|{{green|Z}}]][[orc zombie|{{lightgray|Z}}]][[dwarf zombie|{{red|Z}}]][[human zombie|{{white|Z}}]][[skeleton|{{white|Z}}]][[water demon|{{blue|&amp;}}]][[mail daemon|{{brightblue|&amp;}}]][[Juiblex|{{brightgreen|&amp;}}]][[horned devil|{{brown|&amp;}}]][[succubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[incubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[bone devil|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[sandestin|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[Yeenoghu|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Orcus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Geryon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Dispater|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Baalzebub|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Asmodeus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Demogorgon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Death|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Pestilence|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Famine|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[erinys|{{red|&amp;}}]][[barbed devil|{{red|&amp;}}]][[marilith|{{red|&amp;}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[vrock|{{red|&amp;}}]][[hezrou|{{red|&amp;}}]][[nalfeshnee|{{red|&amp;}}]][[pit fiend|{{red|&amp;}}]][[balrog|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Minion of Huhetotl|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Nalzok|{{red|&amp;}}]][[ice devil|{{white|&amp;}}]][[djinni|{{yellow|&amp;}}]][[rope golem|{{brown|'}}]][[leather golem|{{brown|'}}]][[wood golem|{{brown|'}}]][[clay golem|{{brown|'}}]][[glass golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[iron golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[stone golem|{{lightgray|'}}]][[flesh golem|{{red|'}}]][[paper golem|{{white|'}}]][[straw golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[gold golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[salamander|{{brightred|:}}]][[iguana|{{brown|:}}]][[baby crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[chameleon|{{brown|:}}]][[crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[gecko|{{green|:}}]][[lizard|{{green|:}}]][[newt|{{yellow|:}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[jellyfish|{{blue|;}}]][[electric eel|{{brightblue|;}}]][[giant eel|{{cyan|;}}]][[shark|{{lightgray|;}}]][[piranha|{{red|;}}]][[kraken|{{red|;}}]][[guard|{{blue|@}}]][[captain|{{blue|@}}]][[Grand Master|{{blue|@}}]][[Dark One|{{blue|@}}]][[elf-lord|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Oracle|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Green-elf|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[Medusa|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[werewolf (human)|{{brightred|@}}]][[wererat (human)|{{brown|@}}]][[Woodland-elf|{{green|@}}]][[lieutenant|{{green|@}}]][[watch captain|{{green|@}}]][[Neferet the Green|{{green|@}}]][[Grey-elf|{{lightgray|@}}]][[soldier|{{lightgray|@}}]][[watchman|{{lightgray|@}}]][[Elvenking|{{magenta|@}}]][[Wizard of Yendor|{{magenta|@}}]][[Croesus|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Carnarvon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Pelias|{{magenta|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[Shaman Karnov|{{magenta|@}}]][[Earendil|{{magenta|@}}]][[Hippocrates|{{magenta|@}}]][[King Arthur|{{magenta|@}}]][[Orion|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master of Thieves|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Sato|{{magenta|@}}]][[Norn|{{magenta|@}}]][[Thoth Amon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Kaen|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Assassin|{{magenta|@}}]][[Ashikaga Takauji|{{magenta|@}}]][[werejackal (human)|{{red|@}}]][[sergeant|{{red|@}}]][[human|{{white|@}}]][[elf|{{white|@}}]][[doppelganger|{{white|@}}]][[nurse|{{white|@}}]][[shopkeeper|{{white|@}}]][[prisoner|{{white|@}}]][[aligned priest|{{white|@}}]][[high priest|{{white|@}}]][[Charon|{{white|@}}]][[archeologist|{{white|@}}]][[barbarian|{{white|@}}]][[caveman|{{white|@}}]][[cavewoman|{{white|@}}]][[healer|{{white|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[knight|{{white|@}}]][[monk|{{white|@}}]][[priest|{{white|@}}]][[priestess|{{white|@}}]][[ranger|{{white|@}}]][[rogue|{{white|@}}]][[samurai|{{white|@}}]][[tourist|{{white|@}}]][[valkyrie|{{white|@}}]][[wizard|{{white|@}}]][[Arch Priest|{{white|@}}]][[Twoflower|{{white|@}}]][[student|{{white|@}}]][[chieftain|{{white|@}}]][[neanderthal|{{white|@}}]][[High-elf|{{white|@}}]][[attendant|{{white|@}}]][[page|{{white|@}}]][[abbot|{{white|@}}]][[acolyte|{{white|@}}]][[hunter|{{white|@}}]][[thug|{{white|@}}]][[ninja|{{white|@}}]][[roshi|{{white|@}}]][[guide|{{white|@}}]][[warrior|{{white|@}}]][[apprentice|{{white|@}}]][[long worm tail|{{brown|~}}]]
|}
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>74xt881betmu0r369zoinglol93mr9p</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>13011</id>
      <parentid>10955</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-10-01T19:00:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>SGrunt</username>
        <id>712</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Changing the monster glyphs to use {{black}} where applicable and order such that monsters that use it are at the head of their categories (to match the colour-ordering scheme already in place)</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="14100">&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:2px;"
|width="60%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; margin-right:2px; vertical-align: top;"|
{{Currentfeature}}
|width="40%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|style="width: 100%; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|colspan="3" style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestibles]]
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Level]]s
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%"
|width="33%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB;  padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|width="33%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[List of NetHack websites|Websites]]
|width="33%" style="background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]] - [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|-
|colspan="4" width="100%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; text-align:center; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Monster]]s===
[[ghost|{{gray|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[shade|{{black|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[giant beetle|{{black|a}}]][[soldier ant|{{blue|a}}]][[giant ant|{{brown|a}}]][[queen bee|{{magenta|a}}]][[fire ant|{{red|a}}]][[killer bee|{{yellow|a}}]][[gelatinous cube|{{cyan|b}}]][[acid blob|{{green|b}}]][[quivering blob|{{white|b}}]][[chickatrice|{{brown|c}}]][[pyrolisk|{{red|c}}]][[cockatrice|{{yellow|c}}]][[jackal|{{brown|d}}]][[coyote|{{brown|d}}]][[werejackal (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[wolf|{{brown|d}}]][[werewolf (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[warg|{{brown|d}}]][[winter wolf cub|{{cyan|d}}]][[winter wolf|{{cyan|d}}]][[fox|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound pup|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound|{{red|d}}]][[Cerberus|{{red|d}}]][[little dog|{{white|d}}]][[dog|{{white|d}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[large dog|{{white|d}}]][[dingo|{{yellow|d}}]][[floating eye|{{blue|e}}]][[shocking sphere|{{brightblue|e}}]][[beholder|{{brown|e}}]][[gas spore|{{lightgray|e}}]][[flaming sphere|{{red|e}}]][[freezing sphere|{{white|e}}]][[panther|{{black|f}}]][[jaguar|{{brown|f}}]][[lynx|{{cyan|f}}]][[kitten|{{white|f}}]][[housecat|{{white|f}}]][[large cat|{{white|f}}]][[tiger|{{yellow|f}}]][[gargoyle|{{brown|g}}]][[gremlin|{{green|g}}]][[winged gargoyle|{{magenta|g}}]][[dwarf lord|{{blue|h}}]][[bugbear|{{brown|h}}]][[hobbit|{{green|h}}]][[dwarf king|{{magenta|h}}]][[mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[master mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[dwarf|{{red|h}}]][[quasit|{{blue|i}}]][[lemure|{{brown|i}}]][[tengu|{{cyan|i}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[homunculus|{{green|i}}]][[manes|{{red|i}}]][[imp|{{red|i}}]][[blue jelly|{{blue|j}}]][[ochre jelly|{{brown|j}}]][[spotted jelly|{{green|j}}]][[kobold shaman|{{brightblue|k}}]][[kobold|{{brown|k}}]][[kobold lord|{{magenta|k}}]][[large kobold|{{red|k}}]][[leprechaun|{{green|l}}]][[small mimic|{{brown|m}}]][[giant mimic|{{magenta|m}}]][[large mimic|{{red|m}}]][[water nymph|{{blue|n}}]][[mountain nymph|{{brown|n}}]][[wood nymph|{{green|n}}]][[Uruk-hai|{{black|o}}]][[Mordor orc|{{blue|o}}]][[orc shaman|{{brightblue|o}}]][[hobgoblin|{{brown|o}}]][[goblin|{{lightgray|o}}]][[orc-captain|{{magenta|o}}]][[Goblin King|{{magenta|o}}]][[orc|{{red|o}}]][[hill orc|{{yellow|o}}]][[iron piercer|{{cyan|p}}]][[rock piercer|{{lightgray|p}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[glass piercer|{{white|p}}]][[mastodon|{{black|q}}]][[rothe|{{brown|q}}]][[wumpus|{{cyan|q}}]][[mumak|{{lightgray|q}}]][[titanothere|{{lightgray|q}}]][[baluchitherium|{{lightgray|q}}]][[leocrotta|{{red|q}}]][[sewer rat|{{brown|r}}]][[giant rat|{{brown|r}}]][[rabid rat|{{brown|r}}]][[wererat (rodent)|{{brown|r}}]][[woodchuck|{{brown|r}}]][[rock mole|{{lightgray|r}}]][[cave spider|{{lightgray|s}}]][[giant spider|{{magenta|s}}]][[Scorpius|{{magenta|s}}]][[scorpion|{{red|s}}]][[centipede|{{yellow|s}}]][[trapper|{{green|t}}]][[lurker above|{{lightgray|t}}]][[black unicorn|{{black|u}}]][[pony|{{brown|u}}]][[horse|{{brown|u}}]][[warhorse|{{brown|u}}]][[gray unicorn|{{lightgray|u}}]][[white unicorn|{{white|u}}]][[steam vortex|{{blue|v}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[energy vortex|{{brightblue|v}}]][[dust vortex|{{brown|v}}]][[ice vortex|{{cyan|v}}]][[fog cloud|{{lightgray|v}}]][[fire vortex|{{yellow|v}}]][[baby long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[baby purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[grid bug|{{magenta|x}}]][[xan|{{red|x}}]][[black light|{{black|y}}]][[yellow light|{{yellow|y}}]][[zruty|{{brown|z}}]][[couatl|{{green|A}}]][[Archon|{{magenta|A}}]][[Angel|{{white|A}}]][[Aleax|{{yellow|A}}]][[ki-rin|{{yellow|A}}]][[raven|{{black|B}}]][[vampire bat|{{black|B}}]][[bat|{{brown|B}}]][[giant bat|{{red|B}}]][[plains centaur|{{brown|C}}]][[mountain centaur|{{cyan|C}}]][[forest centaur|{{green|C}}]][[baby black dragon|{{black|D}}]][[black dragon|{{black|D}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[baby blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]][[blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]][[baby silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[baby orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[baby shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[baby green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[baby gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[Chromatic Dragon|{{magenta|D}}]][[baby red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[Ixoth|{{red|D}}]][[baby white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[baby yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[water elemental|{{blue|E}}]][[earth elemental|{{brown|E}}]][[air elemental|{{cyan|E}}]][[stalker|{{white|E}}]][[fire elemental|{{yellow|E}}]][[lichen|{{brightgreen|F}}]][[brown mold|{{brown|F}}]][[green mold|{{green|F}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[shrieker|{{magenta|F}}]][[violet fungus|{{magenta|F}}]][[red mold|{{red|F}}]][[yellow mold|{{yellow|F}}]][[gnome lord|{{blue|G}}]][[gnomish wizard|{{brightblue|G}}]][[gnome|{{brown|G}}]][[gnome king|{{magenta|G}}]][[storm giant|{{blue|H}}]][[ettin|{{brown|H}}]][[minotaur|{{brown|H}}]][[hill giant|{{cyan|H}}]][[stone giant|{{lightgray|H}}]][[Cyclops|{{lightgray|H}}]][[titan|{{magenta|H}}]][[Lord Surtur|{{magenta|H}}]][[giant|{{red|H}}]][[frost giant|{{white|H}}]][[fire giant|{{yellow|H}}]][[jabberwock|{{brightred|J}}]][[vorpal jabberwock|{{magenta|J}}]][[Keystone Kop|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Sergeant|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Lieutenant|{{cyan|K}}]][[Kop Kaptain|{{magenta|K}}]][[lich|{{brown|L}}]][[master lich|{{magenta|L}}]][[arch-lich|{{magenta|L}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[demilich|{{red|L}}]][[ettin mummy|{{blue|M}}]][[kobold mummy|{{brown|M}}]][[giant mummy|{{cyan|M}}]][[elf mummy|{{green|M}}]][[orc mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[human mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[gnome mummy|{{red|M}}]][[dwarf mummy|{{red|M}}]][[black naga hatchling|{{black|N}}]][[black naga|{{black|N}}]][[guardian naga hatchling|{{green|N}}]][[guardian naga|{{green|N}}]][[red naga hatchling|{{red|N}}]][[red naga|{{red|N}}]][[golden naga hatchling|{{yellow|N}}]][[golden naga|{{yellow|N}}]][[ogre|{{brown|O}}]][[ogre king|{{magenta|O}}]][[ogre lord|{{red|O}}]][[black pudding|{{black|P}}]][[brown pudding|{{brown|P}}]][[green slime|{{green|P}}]][[gray ooze|{{lightgray|P}}]][[quantum mechanic|{{cyan|Q}}]][[disenchanter|{{blue|R}}]][[rust monster|{{brown|R}}]][[pit viper|{{blue|S}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[cobra|{{blue|S}}]][[snake|{{brown|S}}]][[garter snake|{{green|S}}]][[python|{{magenta|S}}]][[water moccasin|{{red|S}}]][[water troll|{{blue|T}}]][[troll|{{brown|T}}]][[rock troll|{{cyan|T}}]][[Olog-hai|{{magenta|T}}]][[ice troll|{{white|T}}]][[umber hulk|{{brown|U}}]][[vampire lord|{{blue|V}}]][[vampire mage|{{brightblue|V}}]][[Vlad the Impaler|{{magenta|V}}]][[vampire|{{red|V}}]][[wraith|{{black|W}}]][[barrow wight|{{lightgray|W}}]][[Nazgul|{{magenta|W}}]][[xorn|{{brown|X}}]][[carnivorous ape|{{black|Y}}]][[ape|{{brown|Y}}]][[owlbear|{{brown|Y}}]][[monkey|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[sasquatch|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[yeti|{{white|Y}}]][[ghoul|{{black|Z}}]][[ettin zombie|{{blue|Z}}]][[kobold zombie|{{brown|Z}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[gnome zombie|{{brown|Z}}]][[giant zombie|{{cyan|Z}}]][[elf zombie|{{green|Z}}]][[orc zombie|{{lightgray|Z}}]][[dwarf zombie|{{red|Z}}]][[human zombie|{{white|Z}}]][[skeleton|{{white|Z}}]][[water demon|{{blue|&amp;}}]][[mail daemon|{{brightblue|&amp;}}]][[Juiblex|{{brightgreen|&amp;}}]][[horned devil|{{brown|&amp;}}]][[succubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[incubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[bone devil|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[sandestin|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[Yeenoghu|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Orcus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Geryon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Dispater|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Baalzebub|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Asmodeus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Demogorgon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Death|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Pestilence|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Famine|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[erinys|{{red|&amp;}}]][[barbed devil|{{red|&amp;}}]][[marilith|{{red|&amp;}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[vrock|{{red|&amp;}}]][[hezrou|{{red|&amp;}}]][[nalfeshnee|{{red|&amp;}}]][[pit fiend|{{red|&amp;}}]][[balrog|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Minion of Huhetotl|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Nalzok|{{red|&amp;}}]][[ice devil|{{white|&amp;}}]][[djinni|{{yellow|&amp;}}]][[rope golem|{{brown|'}}]][[leather golem|{{brown|'}}]][[wood golem|{{brown|'}}]][[clay golem|{{brown|'}}]][[glass golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[iron golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[stone golem|{{lightgray|'}}]][[flesh golem|{{red|'}}]][[paper golem|{{white|'}}]][[straw golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[gold golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[salamander|{{brightred|:}}]][[iguana|{{brown|:}}]][[baby crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[chameleon|{{brown|:}}]][[crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[gecko|{{green|:}}]][[lizard|{{green|:}}]][[newt|{{yellow|:}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[jellyfish|{{blue|;}}]][[electric eel|{{brightblue|;}}]][[giant eel|{{cyan|;}}]][[shark|{{lightgray|;}}]][[piranha|{{red|;}}]][[kraken|{{red|;}}]][[Grand Master|{{black|@}}]][[Dark One|{{black|@}}]][[guard|{{blue|@}}]][[captain|{{blue|@}}]][[elf-lord|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Oracle|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Green-elf|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[Medusa|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[werewolf (human)|{{brightred|@}}]][[wererat (human)|{{brown|@}}]][[Woodland-elf|{{green|@}}]][[lieutenant|{{green|@}}]][[watch captain|{{green|@}}]][[Neferet the Green|{{green|@}}]][[Grey-elf|{{lightgray|@}}]][[soldier|{{lightgray|@}}]][[watchman|{{lightgray|@}}]][[Elvenking|{{magenta|@}}]][[Wizard of Yendor|{{magenta|@}}]][[Croesus|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Carnarvon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Pelias|{{magenta|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[Shaman Karnov|{{magenta|@}}]][[Earendil|{{magenta|@}}]][[Hippocrates|{{magenta|@}}]][[King Arthur|{{magenta|@}}]][[Orion|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master of Thieves|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Sato|{{magenta|@}}]][[Norn|{{magenta|@}}]][[Thoth Amon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Kaen|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Assassin|{{magenta|@}}]][[Ashikaga Takauji|{{magenta|@}}]][[werejackal (human)|{{red|@}}]][[sergeant|{{red|@}}]][[human|{{white|@}}]][[elf|{{white|@}}]][[doppelganger|{{white|@}}]][[nurse|{{white|@}}]][[shopkeeper|{{white|@}}]][[prisoner|{{white|@}}]][[aligned priest|{{white|@}}]][[high priest|{{white|@}}]][[Charon|{{white|@}}]][[archeologist|{{white|@}}]][[barbarian|{{white|@}}]][[caveman|{{white|@}}]][[cavewoman|{{white|@}}]][[healer|{{white|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[knight|{{white|@}}]][[monk|{{white|@}}]][[priest|{{white|@}}]][[priestess|{{white|@}}]][[ranger|{{white|@}}]][[rogue|{{white|@}}]][[samurai|{{white|@}}]][[tourist|{{white|@}}]][[valkyrie|{{white|@}}]][[wizard|{{white|@}}]][[Arch Priest|{{white|@}}]][[Twoflower|{{white|@}}]][[student|{{white|@}}]][[chieftain|{{white|@}}]][[neanderthal|{{white|@}}]][[High-elf|{{white|@}}]][[attendant|{{white|@}}]][[page|{{white|@}}]][[abbot|{{white|@}}]][[acolyte|{{white|@}}]][[hunter|{{white|@}}]][[thug|{{white|@}}]][[ninja|{{white|@}}]][[roshi|{{white|@}}]][[guide|{{white|@}}]][[warrior|{{white|@}}]][[apprentice|{{white|@}}]][[long worm tail|{{brown|~}}]]
|}
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
[[Category:Articles]]</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>13539</id>
      <parentid>13011</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-10-06T07:09:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Travelus</username>
        <id>838</id>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="14101">&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:2px;"
|width="60%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; margin-right:2px; vertical-align: top;"|
{{Currentfeature}}
|width="40%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|style="width: 100%; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|colspan="3" style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]]&lt;br&gt;[[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestibles]]
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Level]]s
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%"
|width="33%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB;  padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|width="33%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[List of NetHack websites|Websites]]
|width="33%" style="background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]] - [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|-
|colspan="4" width="100%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; text-align:center; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Monster]]s===
[[ghost|{{gray|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[shade|{{black|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[giant beetle|{{black|a}}]][[soldier ant|{{blue|a}}]][[giant ant|{{brown|a}}]][[queen bee|{{magenta|a}}]][[fire ant|{{red|a}}]][[killer bee|{{yellow|a}}]][[gelatinous cube|{{cyan|b}}]][[acid blob|{{green|b}}]][[quivering blob|{{white|b}}]][[chickatrice|{{brown|c}}]][[pyrolisk|{{red|c}}]][[cockatrice|{{yellow|c}}]][[jackal|{{brown|d}}]][[coyote|{{brown|d}}]][[werejackal (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[wolf|{{brown|d}}]][[werewolf (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[warg|{{brown|d}}]][[winter wolf cub|{{cyan|d}}]][[winter wolf|{{cyan|d}}]][[fox|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound pup|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound|{{red|d}}]][[Cerberus|{{red|d}}]][[little dog|{{white|d}}]][[dog|{{white|d}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[large dog|{{white|d}}]][[dingo|{{yellow|d}}]][[floating eye|{{blue|e}}]][[shocking sphere|{{brightblue|e}}]][[beholder|{{brown|e}}]][[gas spore|{{lightgray|e}}]][[flaming sphere|{{red|e}}]][[freezing sphere|{{white|e}}]][[panther|{{black|f}}]][[jaguar|{{brown|f}}]][[lynx|{{cyan|f}}]][[kitten|{{white|f}}]][[housecat|{{white|f}}]][[large cat|{{white|f}}]][[tiger|{{yellow|f}}]][[gargoyle|{{brown|g}}]][[gremlin|{{green|g}}]][[winged gargoyle|{{magenta|g}}]][[dwarf lord|{{blue|h}}]][[bugbear|{{brown|h}}]][[hobbit|{{green|h}}]][[dwarf king|{{magenta|h}}]][[mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[master mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[dwarf|{{red|h}}]][[quasit|{{blue|i}}]][[lemure|{{brown|i}}]][[tengu|{{cyan|i}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[homunculus|{{green|i}}]][[manes|{{red|i}}]][[imp|{{red|i}}]][[blue jelly|{{blue|j}}]][[ochre jelly|{{brown|j}}]][[spotted jelly|{{green|j}}]][[kobold shaman|{{brightblue|k}}]][[kobold|{{brown|k}}]][[kobold lord|{{magenta|k}}]][[large kobold|{{red|k}}]][[leprechaun|{{green|l}}]][[small mimic|{{brown|m}}]][[giant mimic|{{magenta|m}}]][[large mimic|{{red|m}}]][[water nymph|{{blue|n}}]][[mountain nymph|{{brown|n}}]][[wood nymph|{{green|n}}]][[Uruk-hai|{{black|o}}]][[Mordor orc|{{blue|o}}]][[orc shaman|{{brightblue|o}}]][[hobgoblin|{{brown|o}}]][[goblin|{{lightgray|o}}]][[orc-captain|{{magenta|o}}]][[Goblin King|{{magenta|o}}]][[orc|{{red|o}}]][[hill orc|{{yellow|o}}]][[iron piercer|{{cyan|p}}]][[rock piercer|{{lightgray|p}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[glass piercer|{{white|p}}]][[mastodon|{{black|q}}]][[rothe|{{brown|q}}]][[wumpus|{{cyan|q}}]][[mumak|{{lightgray|q}}]][[titanothere|{{lightgray|q}}]][[baluchitherium|{{lightgray|q}}]][[leocrotta|{{red|q}}]][[sewer rat|{{brown|r}}]][[giant rat|{{brown|r}}]][[rabid rat|{{brown|r}}]][[wererat (rodent)|{{brown|r}}]][[woodchuck|{{brown|r}}]][[rock mole|{{lightgray|r}}]][[cave spider|{{lightgray|s}}]][[giant spider|{{magenta|s}}]][[Scorpius|{{magenta|s}}]][[scorpion|{{red|s}}]][[centipede|{{yellow|s}}]][[trapper|{{green|t}}]][[lurker above|{{lightgray|t}}]][[black unicorn|{{black|u}}]][[pony|{{brown|u}}]][[horse|{{brown|u}}]][[warhorse|{{brown|u}}]][[gray unicorn|{{lightgray|u}}]][[white unicorn|{{white|u}}]][[steam vortex|{{blue|v}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[energy vortex|{{brightblue|v}}]][[dust vortex|{{brown|v}}]][[ice vortex|{{cyan|v}}]][[fog cloud|{{lightgray|v}}]][[fire vortex|{{yellow|v}}]][[baby long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[baby purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[grid bug|{{magenta|x}}]][[xan|{{red|x}}]][[black light|{{black|y}}]][[yellow light|{{yellow|y}}]][[zruty|{{brown|z}}]][[couatl|{{green|A}}]][[Archon|{{magenta|A}}]][[Angel|{{white|A}}]][[Aleax|{{yellow|A}}]][[ki-rin|{{yellow|A}}]][[raven|{{black|B}}]][[vampire bat|{{black|B}}]][[bat|{{brown|B}}]][[giant bat|{{red|B}}]][[plains centaur|{{brown|C}}]][[mountain centaur|{{cyan|C}}]][[forest centaur|{{green|C}}]][[baby black dragon|{{black|D}}]][[black dragon|{{black|D}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[baby blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]][[blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]][[baby silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[baby orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[baby shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[baby green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[baby gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[Chromatic Dragon|{{magenta|D}}]][[baby red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[Ixoth|{{red|D}}]][[baby white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[baby yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[water elemental|{{blue|E}}]][[earth elemental|{{brown|E}}]][[air elemental|{{cyan|E}}]][[stalker|{{white|E}}]][[fire elemental|{{yellow|E}}]][[lichen|{{brightgreen|F}}]][[brown mold|{{brown|F}}]][[green mold|{{green|F}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[shrieker|{{magenta|F}}]][[violet fungus|{{magenta|F}}]][[red mold|{{red|F}}]][[yellow mold|{{yellow|F}}]][[gnome lord|{{blue|G}}]][[gnomish wizard|{{brightblue|G}}]][[gnome|{{brown|G}}]][[gnome king|{{magenta|G}}]][[storm giant|{{blue|H}}]][[ettin|{{brown|H}}]][[minotaur|{{brown|H}}]][[hill giant|{{cyan|H}}]][[stone giant|{{lightgray|H}}]][[Cyclops|{{lightgray|H}}]][[titan|{{magenta|H}}]][[Lord Surtur|{{magenta|H}}]][[giant|{{red|H}}]][[frost giant|{{white|H}}]][[fire giant|{{yellow|H}}]][[jabberwock|{{brightred|J}}]][[vorpal jabberwock|{{magenta|J}}]][[Keystone Kop|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Sergeant|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Lieutenant|{{cyan|K}}]][[Kop Kaptain|{{magenta|K}}]][[lich|{{brown|L}}]][[master lich|{{magenta|L}}]][[arch-lich|{{magenta|L}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[demilich|{{red|L}}]][[ettin mummy|{{blue|M}}]][[kobold mummy|{{brown|M}}]][[giant mummy|{{cyan|M}}]][[elf mummy|{{green|M}}]][[orc mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[human mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[gnome mummy|{{red|M}}]][[dwarf mummy|{{red|M}}]][[black naga hatchling|{{black|N}}]][[black naga|{{black|N}}]][[guardian naga hatchling|{{green|N}}]][[guardian naga|{{green|N}}]][[red naga hatchling|{{red|N}}]][[red naga|{{red|N}}]][[golden naga hatchling|{{yellow|N}}]][[golden naga|{{yellow|N}}]][[ogre|{{brown|O}}]][[ogre king|{{magenta|O}}]][[ogre lord|{{red|O}}]][[black pudding|{{black|P}}]][[brown pudding|{{brown|P}}]][[green slime|{{green|P}}]][[gray ooze|{{lightgray|P}}]][[quantum mechanic|{{cyan|Q}}]][[disenchanter|{{blue|R}}]][[rust monster|{{brown|R}}]][[pit viper|{{blue|S}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[cobra|{{blue|S}}]][[snake|{{brown|S}}]][[garter snake|{{green|S}}]][[python|{{magenta|S}}]][[water moccasin|{{red|S}}]][[water troll|{{blue|T}}]][[troll|{{brown|T}}]][[rock troll|{{cyan|T}}]][[Olog-hai|{{magenta|T}}]][[ice troll|{{white|T}}]][[umber hulk|{{brown|U}}]][[vampire lord|{{blue|V}}]][[vampire mage|{{brightblue|V}}]][[Vlad the Impaler|{{magenta|V}}]][[vampire|{{red|V}}]][[wraith|{{black|W}}]][[barrow wight|{{lightgray|W}}]][[Nazgul|{{magenta|W}}]][[xorn|{{brown|X}}]][[carnivorous ape|{{black|Y}}]][[ape|{{brown|Y}}]][[owlbear|{{brown|Y}}]][[monkey|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[sasquatch|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[yeti|{{white|Y}}]][[ghoul|{{black|Z}}]][[ettin zombie|{{blue|Z}}]][[kobold zombie|{{brown|Z}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[gnome zombie|{{brown|Z}}]][[giant zombie|{{cyan|Z}}]][[elf zombie|{{green|Z}}]][[orc zombie|{{lightgray|Z}}]][[dwarf zombie|{{red|Z}}]][[human zombie|{{white|Z}}]][[skeleton|{{white|Z}}]][[water demon|{{blue|&amp;}}]][[mail daemon|{{brightblue|&amp;}}]][[Juiblex|{{brightgreen|&amp;}}]][[horned devil|{{brown|&amp;}}]][[succubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[incubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[bone devil|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[sandestin|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[Yeenoghu|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Orcus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Geryon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Dispater|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Baalzebub|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Asmodeus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Demogorgon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Death|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Pestilence|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Famine|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[erinys|{{red|&amp;}}]][[barbed devil|{{red|&amp;}}]][[marilith|{{red|&amp;}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[vrock|{{red|&amp;}}]][[hezrou|{{red|&amp;}}]][[nalfeshnee|{{red|&amp;}}]][[pit fiend|{{red|&amp;}}]][[balrog|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Minion of Huhetotl|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Nalzok|{{red|&amp;}}]][[ice devil|{{white|&amp;}}]][[djinni|{{yellow|&amp;}}]][[rope golem|{{brown|'}}]][[leather golem|{{brown|'}}]][[wood golem|{{brown|'}}]][[clay golem|{{brown|'}}]][[glass golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[iron golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[stone golem|{{lightgray|'}}]][[flesh golem|{{red|'}}]][[paper golem|{{white|'}}]][[straw golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[gold golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[salamander|{{brightred|:}}]][[iguana|{{brown|:}}]][[baby crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[chameleon|{{brown|:}}]][[crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[gecko|{{green|:}}]][[lizard|{{green|:}}]][[newt|{{yellow|:}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[jellyfish|{{blue|;}}]][[electric eel|{{brightblue|;}}]][[giant eel|{{cyan|;}}]][[shark|{{lightgray|;}}]][[piranha|{{red|;}}]][[kraken|{{red|;}}]][[Grand Master|{{black|@}}]][[Dark One|{{black|@}}]][[guard|{{blue|@}}]][[captain|{{blue|@}}]][[elf-lord|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Oracle|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Green-elf|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[Medusa|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[werewolf (human)|{{brightred|@}}]][[wererat (human)|{{brown|@}}]][[Woodland-elf|{{green|@}}]][[lieutenant|{{green|@}}]][[watch captain|{{green|@}}]][[Neferet the Green|{{green|@}}]][[Grey-elf|{{lightgray|@}}]][[soldier|{{lightgray|@}}]][[watchman|{{lightgray|@}}]][[Elvenking|{{magenta|@}}]][[Wizard of Yendor|{{magenta|@}}]][[Croesus|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Carnarvon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Pelias|{{magenta|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[Shaman Karnov|{{magenta|@}}]][[Earendil|{{magenta|@}}]][[Hippocrates|{{magenta|@}}]][[King Arthur|{{magenta|@}}]][[Orion|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master of Thieves|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Sato|{{magenta|@}}]][[Norn|{{magenta|@}}]][[Thoth Amon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Kaen|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Assassin|{{magenta|@}}]][[Ashikaga Takauji|{{magenta|@}}]][[werejackal (human)|{{red|@}}]][[sergeant|{{red|@}}]][[human|{{white|@}}]][[elf|{{white|@}}]][[doppelganger|{{white|@}}]][[nurse|{{white|@}}]][[shopkeeper|{{white|@}}]][[prisoner|{{white|@}}]][[aligned priest|{{white|@}}]][[high priest|{{white|@}}]][[Charon|{{white|@}}]][[archeologist|{{white|@}}]][[barbarian|{{white|@}}]][[caveman|{{white|@}}]][[cavewoman|{{white|@}}]][[healer|{{white|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[knight|{{white|@}}]][[monk|{{white|@}}]][[priest|{{white|@}}]][[priestess|{{white|@}}]][[ranger|{{white|@}}]][[rogue|{{white|@}}]][[samurai|{{white|@}}]][[tourist|{{white|@}}]][[valkyrie|{{white|@}}]][[wizard|{{white|@}}]][[Arch Priest|{{white|@}}]][[Twoflower|{{white|@}}]][[student|{{white|@}}]][[chieftain|{{white|@}}]][[neanderthal|{{white|@}}]][[High-elf|{{white|@}}]][[attendant|{{white|@}}]][[page|{{white|@}}]][[abbot|{{white|@}}]][[acolyte|{{white|@}}]][[hunter|{{white|@}}]][[thug|{{white|@}}]][[ninja|{{white|@}}]][[roshi|{{white|@}}]][[guide|{{white|@}}]][[warrior|{{white|@}}]][[apprentice|{{white|@}}]][[long worm tail|{{brown|~}}]]
|}
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>518mt0y38ven4gxj8wx8iibmwwe630w</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>13577</id>
      <parentid>13539</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-10-06T20:08:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Travelus</username>
        <id>838</id>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="14100">&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:2px;"
|width="60%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; margin-right:2px; vertical-align: top;"|
{{Currentfeature}}
|width="40%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|style="width: 100%; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|colspan="3" style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestibles]]
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Level]]s
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%"
|width="33%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB;  padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|width="33%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[List of NetHack websites|Websites]]
|width="33%" style="background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]] - [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|-
|colspan="4" width="100%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; text-align:center; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Monster]]s===
[[ghost|{{gray|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[shade|{{black|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[giant beetle|{{black|a}}]][[soldier ant|{{blue|a}}]][[giant ant|{{brown|a}}]][[queen bee|{{magenta|a}}]][[fire ant|{{red|a}}]][[killer bee|{{yellow|a}}]][[gelatinous cube|{{cyan|b}}]][[acid blob|{{green|b}}]][[quivering blob|{{white|b}}]][[chickatrice|{{brown|c}}]][[pyrolisk|{{red|c}}]][[cockatrice|{{yellow|c}}]][[jackal|{{brown|d}}]][[coyote|{{brown|d}}]][[werejackal (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[wolf|{{brown|d}}]][[werewolf (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[warg|{{brown|d}}]][[winter wolf cub|{{cyan|d}}]][[winter wolf|{{cyan|d}}]][[fox|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound pup|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound|{{red|d}}]][[Cerberus|{{red|d}}]][[little dog|{{white|d}}]][[dog|{{white|d}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[large dog|{{white|d}}]][[dingo|{{yellow|d}}]][[floating eye|{{blue|e}}]][[shocking sphere|{{brightblue|e}}]][[beholder|{{brown|e}}]][[gas spore|{{lightgray|e}}]][[flaming sphere|{{red|e}}]][[freezing sphere|{{white|e}}]][[panther|{{black|f}}]][[jaguar|{{brown|f}}]][[lynx|{{cyan|f}}]][[kitten|{{white|f}}]][[housecat|{{white|f}}]][[large cat|{{white|f}}]][[tiger|{{yellow|f}}]][[gargoyle|{{brown|g}}]][[gremlin|{{green|g}}]][[winged gargoyle|{{magenta|g}}]][[dwarf lord|{{blue|h}}]][[bugbear|{{brown|h}}]][[hobbit|{{green|h}}]][[dwarf king|{{magenta|h}}]][[mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[master mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[dwarf|{{red|h}}]][[quasit|{{blue|i}}]][[lemure|{{brown|i}}]][[tengu|{{cyan|i}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[homunculus|{{green|i}}]][[manes|{{red|i}}]][[imp|{{red|i}}]][[blue jelly|{{blue|j}}]][[ochre jelly|{{brown|j}}]][[spotted jelly|{{green|j}}]][[kobold shaman|{{brightblue|k}}]][[kobold|{{brown|k}}]][[kobold lord|{{magenta|k}}]][[large kobold|{{red|k}}]][[leprechaun|{{green|l}}]][[small mimic|{{brown|m}}]][[giant mimic|{{magenta|m}}]][[large mimic|{{red|m}}]][[water nymph|{{blue|n}}]][[mountain nymph|{{brown|n}}]][[wood nymph|{{green|n}}]][[Uruk-hai|{{black|o}}]][[Mordor orc|{{blue|o}}]][[orc shaman|{{brightblue|o}}]][[hobgoblin|{{brown|o}}]][[goblin|{{lightgray|o}}]][[orc-captain|{{magenta|o}}]][[Goblin King|{{magenta|o}}]][[orc|{{red|o}}]][[hill orc|{{yellow|o}}]][[iron piercer|{{cyan|p}}]][[rock piercer|{{lightgray|p}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[glass piercer|{{white|p}}]][[mastodon|{{black|q}}]][[rothe|{{brown|q}}]][[wumpus|{{cyan|q}}]][[mumak|{{lightgray|q}}]][[titanothere|{{lightgray|q}}]][[baluchitherium|{{lightgray|q}}]][[leocrotta|{{red|q}}]][[sewer rat|{{brown|r}}]][[giant rat|{{brown|r}}]][[rabid rat|{{brown|r}}]][[wererat (rodent)|{{brown|r}}]][[woodchuck|{{brown|r}}]][[rock mole|{{lightgray|r}}]][[cave spider|{{lightgray|s}}]][[giant spider|{{magenta|s}}]][[Scorpius|{{magenta|s}}]][[scorpion|{{red|s}}]][[centipede|{{yellow|s}}]][[trapper|{{green|t}}]][[lurker above|{{lightgray|t}}]][[black unicorn|{{black|u}}]][[pony|{{brown|u}}]][[horse|{{brown|u}}]][[warhorse|{{brown|u}}]][[gray unicorn|{{lightgray|u}}]][[white unicorn|{{white|u}}]][[steam vortex|{{blue|v}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[energy vortex|{{brightblue|v}}]][[dust vortex|{{brown|v}}]][[ice vortex|{{cyan|v}}]][[fog cloud|{{lightgray|v}}]][[fire vortex|{{yellow|v}}]][[baby long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[baby purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[grid bug|{{magenta|x}}]][[xan|{{red|x}}]][[black light|{{black|y}}]][[yellow light|{{yellow|y}}]][[zruty|{{brown|z}}]][[couatl|{{green|A}}]][[Archon|{{magenta|A}}]][[Angel|{{white|A}}]][[Aleax|{{yellow|A}}]][[ki-rin|{{yellow|A}}]][[raven|{{black|B}}]][[vampire bat|{{black|B}}]][[bat|{{brown|B}}]][[giant bat|{{red|B}}]][[plains centaur|{{brown|C}}]][[mountain centaur|{{cyan|C}}]][[forest centaur|{{green|C}}]][[baby black dragon|{{black|D}}]][[black dragon|{{black|D}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[baby blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]][[blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]][[baby silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[baby orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[baby shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[baby green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[baby gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[Chromatic Dragon|{{magenta|D}}]][[baby red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[Ixoth|{{red|D}}]][[baby white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[baby yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[water elemental|{{blue|E}}]][[earth elemental|{{brown|E}}]][[air elemental|{{cyan|E}}]][[stalker|{{white|E}}]][[fire elemental|{{yellow|E}}]][[lichen|{{brightgreen|F}}]][[brown mold|{{brown|F}}]][[green mold|{{green|F}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[shrieker|{{magenta|F}}]][[violet fungus|{{magenta|F}}]][[red mold|{{red|F}}]][[yellow mold|{{yellow|F}}]][[gnome lord|{{blue|G}}]][[gnomish wizard|{{brightblue|G}}]][[gnome|{{brown|G}}]][[gnome king|{{magenta|G}}]][[storm giant|{{blue|H}}]][[ettin|{{brown|H}}]][[minotaur|{{brown|H}}]][[hill giant|{{cyan|H}}]][[stone giant|{{lightgray|H}}]][[Cyclops|{{lightgray|H}}]][[titan|{{magenta|H}}]][[Lord Surtur|{{magenta|H}}]][[giant|{{red|H}}]][[frost giant|{{white|H}}]][[fire giant|{{yellow|H}}]][[jabberwock|{{brightred|J}}]][[vorpal jabberwock|{{magenta|J}}]][[Keystone Kop|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Sergeant|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Lieutenant|{{cyan|K}}]][[Kop Kaptain|{{magenta|K}}]][[lich|{{brown|L}}]][[master lich|{{magenta|L}}]][[arch-lich|{{magenta|L}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[demilich|{{red|L}}]][[ettin mummy|{{blue|M}}]][[kobold mummy|{{brown|M}}]][[giant mummy|{{cyan|M}}]][[elf mummy|{{green|M}}]][[orc mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[human mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[gnome mummy|{{red|M}}]][[dwarf mummy|{{red|M}}]][[black naga hatchling|{{black|N}}]][[black naga|{{black|N}}]][[guardian naga hatchling|{{green|N}}]][[guardian naga|{{green|N}}]][[red naga hatchling|{{red|N}}]][[red naga|{{red|N}}]][[golden naga hatchling|{{yellow|N}}]][[golden naga|{{yellow|N}}]][[ogre|{{brown|O}}]][[ogre king|{{magenta|O}}]][[ogre lord|{{red|O}}]][[black pudding|{{black|P}}]][[brown pudding|{{brown|P}}]][[green slime|{{green|P}}]][[gray ooze|{{lightgray|P}}]][[quantum mechanic|{{cyan|Q}}]][[disenchanter|{{blue|R}}]][[rust monster|{{brown|R}}]][[pit viper|{{blue|S}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[cobra|{{blue|S}}]][[snake|{{brown|S}}]][[garter snake|{{green|S}}]][[python|{{magenta|S}}]][[water moccasin|{{red|S}}]][[water troll|{{blue|T}}]][[troll|{{brown|T}}]][[rock troll|{{cyan|T}}]][[Olog-hai|{{magenta|T}}]][[ice troll|{{white|T}}]][[umber hulk|{{brown|U}}]][[vampire lord|{{blue|V}}]][[vampire mage|{{brightblue|V}}]][[Vlad the Impaler|{{magenta|V}}]][[vampire|{{red|V}}]][[wraith|{{black|W}}]][[barrow wight|{{lightgray|W}}]][[Nazgul|{{magenta|W}}]][[xorn|{{brown|X}}]][[carnivorous ape|{{black|Y}}]][[ape|{{brown|Y}}]][[owlbear|{{brown|Y}}]][[monkey|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[sasquatch|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[yeti|{{white|Y}}]][[ghoul|{{black|Z}}]][[ettin zombie|{{blue|Z}}]][[kobold zombie|{{brown|Z}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[gnome zombie|{{brown|Z}}]][[giant zombie|{{cyan|Z}}]][[elf zombie|{{green|Z}}]][[orc zombie|{{lightgray|Z}}]][[dwarf zombie|{{red|Z}}]][[human zombie|{{white|Z}}]][[skeleton|{{white|Z}}]][[water demon|{{blue|&amp;}}]][[mail daemon|{{brightblue|&amp;}}]][[Juiblex|{{brightgreen|&amp;}}]][[horned devil|{{brown|&amp;}}]][[succubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[incubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[bone devil|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[sandestin|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[Yeenoghu|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Orcus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Geryon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Dispater|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Baalzebub|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Asmodeus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Demogorgon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Death|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Pestilence|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Famine|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[erinys|{{red|&amp;}}]][[barbed devil|{{red|&amp;}}]][[marilith|{{red|&amp;}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[vrock|{{red|&amp;}}]][[hezrou|{{red|&amp;}}]][[nalfeshnee|{{red|&amp;}}]][[pit fiend|{{red|&amp;}}]][[balrog|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Minion of Huhetotl|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Nalzok|{{red|&amp;}}]][[ice devil|{{white|&amp;}}]][[djinni|{{yellow|&amp;}}]][[rope golem|{{brown|'}}]][[leather golem|{{brown|'}}]][[wood golem|{{brown|'}}]][[clay golem|{{brown|'}}]][[glass golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[iron golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[stone golem|{{lightgray|'}}]][[flesh golem|{{red|'}}]][[paper golem|{{white|'}}]][[straw golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[gold golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[salamander|{{brightred|:}}]][[iguana|{{brown|:}}]][[baby crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[chameleon|{{brown|:}}]][[crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[gecko|{{green|:}}]][[lizard|{{green|:}}]][[newt|{{yellow|:}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[jellyfish|{{blue|;}}]][[electric eel|{{brightblue|;}}]][[giant eel|{{cyan|;}}]][[shark|{{lightgray|;}}]][[piranha|{{red|;}}]][[kraken|{{red|;}}]][[Grand Master|{{black|@}}]][[Dark One|{{black|@}}]][[guard|{{blue|@}}]][[captain|{{blue|@}}]][[elf-lord|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Oracle|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Green-elf|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[Medusa|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[werewolf (human)|{{brightred|@}}]][[wererat (human)|{{brown|@}}]][[Woodland-elf|{{green|@}}]][[lieutenant|{{green|@}}]][[watch captain|{{green|@}}]][[Neferet the Green|{{green|@}}]][[Grey-elf|{{lightgray|@}}]][[soldier|{{lightgray|@}}]][[watchman|{{lightgray|@}}]][[Elvenking|{{magenta|@}}]][[Wizard of Yendor|{{magenta|@}}]][[Croesus|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Carnarvon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Pelias|{{magenta|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[Shaman Karnov|{{magenta|@}}]][[Earendil|{{magenta|@}}]][[Hippocrates|{{magenta|@}}]][[King Arthur|{{magenta|@}}]][[Orion|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master of Thieves|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Sato|{{magenta|@}}]][[Norn|{{magenta|@}}]][[Thoth Amon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Kaen|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Assassin|{{magenta|@}}]][[Ashikaga Takauji|{{magenta|@}}]][[werejackal (human)|{{red|@}}]][[sergeant|{{red|@}}]][[human|{{white|@}}]][[elf|{{white|@}}]][[doppelganger|{{white|@}}]][[nurse|{{white|@}}]][[shopkeeper|{{white|@}}]][[prisoner|{{white|@}}]][[aligned priest|{{white|@}}]][[high priest|{{white|@}}]][[Charon|{{white|@}}]][[archeologist|{{white|@}}]][[barbarian|{{white|@}}]][[caveman|{{white|@}}]][[cavewoman|{{white|@}}]][[healer|{{white|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;
[[knight|{{white|@}}]][[monk|{{white|@}}]][[priest|{{white|@}}]][[priestess|{{white|@}}]][[ranger|{{white|@}}]][[rogue|{{white|@}}]][[samurai|{{white|@}}]][[tourist|{{white|@}}]][[valkyrie|{{white|@}}]][[wizard|{{white|@}}]][[Arch Priest|{{white|@}}]][[Twoflower|{{white|@}}]][[student|{{white|@}}]][[chieftain|{{white|@}}]][[neanderthal|{{white|@}}]][[High-elf|{{white|@}}]][[attendant|{{white|@}}]][[page|{{white|@}}]][[abbot|{{white|@}}]][[acolyte|{{white|@}}]][[hunter|{{white|@}}]][[thug|{{white|@}}]][[ninja|{{white|@}}]][[roshi|{{white|@}}]][[guide|{{white|@}}]][[warrior|{{white|@}}]][[apprentice|{{white|@}}]][[long worm tail|{{brown|~}}]]
|}
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>0yl2dumutlwx2jb91ylfdzlfbubf84j</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>13831</id>
      <parentid>13577</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-10-10T03:20:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Someone Else</username>
        <id>761</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Made it slightly longer, but the whole of every glyph is seeable, now.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="14113">&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:2px;"
|width="60%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; margin-right:2px; vertical-align: top;"|
{{Currentfeature}}
|width="40%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|style="width: 100%; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|colspan="3" style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestibles]]
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Level]]s
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%"
|width="33%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB;  padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|width="33%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[List of NetHack websites|Websites]]
|width="33%" style="background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]] - [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|-
|colspan="4" width="100%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; text-align:center; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Monster]]s===
[[ghost|{{gray|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[shade|{{black|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[giant beetle|{{black|a}}]][[soldier ant|{{blue|a}}]][[giant ant|{{brown|a}}]][[queen bee|{{magenta|a}}]][[fire ant|{{red|a}}]][[killer bee|{{yellow|a}}]][[gelatinous cube|{{cyan|b}}]][[acid blob|{{green|b}}]][[quivering blob|{{white|b}}]][[chickatrice|{{brown|c}}]][[pyrolisk|{{red|c}}]][[cockatrice|{{yellow|c}}]][[jackal|{{brown|d}}]][[coyote|{{brown|d}}]][[werejackal (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[wolf|{{brown|d}}]][[werewolf (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[warg|{{brown|d}}]][[winter wolf cub|{{cyan|d}}]][[winter wolf|{{cyan|d}}]][[fox|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound pup|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound|{{red|d}}]][[Cerberus|{{red|d}}]][[little dog|{{white|d}}]][[dog|{{white|d}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[large dog|{{white|d}}]][[dingo|{{yellow|d}}]][[floating eye|{{blue|e}}]][[shocking sphere|{{brightblue|e}}]][[beholder|{{brown|e}}]][[gas spore|{{lightgray|e}}]][[flaming sphere|{{red|e}}]][[freezing sphere|{{white|e}}]][[panther|{{black|f}}]][[jaguar|{{brown|f}}]][[lynx|{{cyan|f}}]][[kitten|{{white|f}}]][[housecat|{{white|f}}]][[large cat|{{white|f}}]][[tiger|{{yellow|f}}]][[gargoyle|{{brown|g}}]][[gremlin|{{green|g}}]][[winged gargoyle|{{magenta|g}}]][[dwarf lord|{{blue|h}}]][[bugbear|{{brown|h}}]][[hobbit|{{green|h}}]][[dwarf king|{{magenta|h}}]][[mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[master mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[dwarf|{{red|h}}]][[quasit|{{blue|i}}]][[lemure|{{brown|i}}]][[tengu|{{cyan|i}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[homunculus|{{green|i}}]][[manes|{{red|i}}]][[imp|{{red|i}}]][[blue jelly|{{blue|j}}]][[ochre jelly|{{brown|j}}]][[spotted jelly|{{green|j}}]][[kobold shaman|{{brightblue|k}}]][[kobold|{{brown|k}}]][[kobold lord|{{magenta|k}}]][[large kobold|{{red|k}}]][[leprechaun|{{green|l}}]][[small mimic|{{brown|m}}]][[giant mimic|{{magenta|m}}]][[large mimic|{{red|m}}]][[water nymph|{{blue|n}}]][[mountain nymph|{{brown|n}}]][[wood nymph|{{green|n}}]][[Uruk-hai|{{black|o}}]][[Mordor orc|{{blue|o}}]][[orc shaman|{{brightblue|o}}]][[hobgoblin|{{brown|o}}]][[goblin|{{lightgray|o}}]][[orc-captain|{{magenta|o}}]][[Goblin King|{{magenta|o}}]][[orc|{{red|o}}]][[hill orc|{{yellow|o}}]][[iron piercer|{{cyan|p}}]][[rock piercer|{{lightgray|p}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[glass piercer|{{white|p}}]][[mastodon|{{black|q}}]][[rothe|{{brown|q}}]][[wumpus|{{cyan|q}}]][[mumak|{{lightgray|q}}]][[titanothere|{{lightgray|q}}]][[baluchitherium|{{lightgray|q}}]][[leocrotta|{{red|q}}]][[sewer rat|{{brown|r}}]][[giant rat|{{brown|r}}]][[rabid rat|{{brown|r}}]][[wererat (rodent)|{{brown|r}}]][[woodchuck|{{brown|r}}]][[rock mole|{{lightgray|r}}]][[cave spider|{{lightgray|s}}]][[giant spider|{{magenta|s}}]][[Scorpius|{{magenta|s}}]][[scorpion|{{red|s}}]][[centipede|{{yellow|s}}]][[trapper|{{green|t}}]][[lurker above|{{lightgray|t}}]][[black unicorn|{{black|u}}]][[pony|{{brown|u}}]][[horse|{{brown|u}}]][[warhorse|{{brown|u}}]][[gray unicorn|{{lightgray|u}}]][[white unicorn|{{white|u}}]][[steam vortex|{{blue|v}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[energy vortex|{{brightblue|v}}]][[dust vortex|{{brown|v}}]][[ice vortex|{{cyan|v}}]][[fog cloud|{{lightgray|v}}]][[fire vortex|{{yellow|v}}]][[baby long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[baby purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[grid bug|{{magenta|x}}]][[xan|{{red|x}}]][[black light|{{black|y}}]][[yellow light|{{yellow|y}}]][[zruty|{{brown|z}}]][[couatl|{{green|A}}]][[Archon|{{magenta|A}}]][[Angel|{{white|A}}]][[Aleax|{{yellow|A}}]][[ki-rin|{{yellow|A}}]][[raven|{{black|B}}]][[vampire bat|{{black|B}}]][[bat|{{brown|B}}]][[giant bat|{{red|B}}]][[plains centaur|{{brown|C}}]][[mountain centaur|{{cyan|C}}]][[forest centaur|{{green|C}}]][[baby black dragon|{{black|D}}]][[black dragon|{{black|D}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[baby blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]][[blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]][[baby silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[baby orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[baby shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[baby green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[baby gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[Chromatic Dragon|{{magenta|D}}]][[baby red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[Ixoth|{{red|D}}]][[baby white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[baby yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[water elemental|{{blue|E}}]][[earth elemental|{{brown|E}}]][[air elemental|{{cyan|E}}]][[stalker|{{white|E}}]][[fire elemental|{{yellow|E}}]][[lichen|{{brightgreen|F}}]][[brown mold|{{brown|F}}]][[green mold|{{green|F}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[shrieker|{{magenta|F}}]][[violet fungus|{{magenta|F}}]][[red mold|{{red|F}}]][[yellow mold|{{yellow|F}}]][[gnome lord|{{blue|G}}]][[gnomish wizard|{{brightblue|G}}]][[gnome|{{brown|G}}]][[gnome king|{{magenta|G}}]][[storm giant|{{blue|H}}]][[ettin|{{brown|H}}]][[minotaur|{{brown|H}}]][[hill giant|{{cyan|H}}]][[stone giant|{{lightgray|H}}]][[Cyclops|{{lightgray|H}}]][[titan|{{magenta|H}}]][[Lord Surtur|{{magenta|H}}]][[giant|{{red|H}}]][[frost giant|{{white|H}}]][[fire giant|{{yellow|H}}]][[jabberwock|{{brightred|J}}]][[vorpal jabberwock|{{magenta|J}}]][[Keystone Kop|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Sergeant|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Lieutenant|{{cyan|K}}]][[Kop Kaptain|{{magenta|K}}]][[lich|{{brown|L}}]][[master lich|{{magenta|L}}]][[arch-lich|{{magenta|L}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[demilich|{{red|L}}]][[ettin mummy|{{blue|M}}]][[kobold mummy|{{brown|M}}]][[giant mummy|{{cyan|M}}]][[elf mummy|{{green|M}}]][[orc mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[human mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[gnome mummy|{{red|M}}]][[dwarf mummy|{{red|M}}]][[black naga hatchling|{{black|N}}]][[black naga|{{black|N}}]][[guardian naga hatchling|{{green|N}}]][[guardian naga|{{green|N}}]][[red naga hatchling|{{red|N}}]][[red naga|{{red|N}}]][[golden naga hatchling|{{yellow|N}}]][[golden naga|{{yellow|N}}]][[ogre|{{brown|O}}]][[ogre king|{{magenta|O}}]][[ogre lord|{{red|O}}]][[black pudding|{{black|P}}]][[brown pudding|{{brown|P}}]][[green slime|{{green|P}}]][[gray ooze|{{lightgray|P}}]][[quantum mechanic|{{cyan|Q}}]][[disenchanter|{{blue|R}}]][[rust monster|{{brown|R}}]][[pit viper|{{blue|S}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[cobra|{{blue|S}}]][[snake|{{brown|S}}]][[garter snake|{{green|S}}]][[python|{{magenta|S}}]][[water moccasin|{{red|S}}]][[water troll|{{blue|T}}]][[troll|{{brown|T}}]][[rock troll|{{cyan|T}}]][[Olog-hai|{{magenta|T}}]][[ice troll|{{white|T}}]][[umber hulk|{{brown|U}}]][[vampire lord|{{blue|V}}]][[vampire mage|{{brightblue|V}}]][[Vlad the Impaler|{{magenta|V}}]][[vampire|{{red|V}}]][[wraith|{{black|W}}]][[barrow wight|{{lightgray|W}}]][[Nazgul|{{magenta|W}}]][[xorn|{{brown|X}}]][[carnivorous ape|{{black|Y}}]][[ape|{{brown|Y}}]][[owlbear|{{brown|Y}}]][[monkey|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[sasquatch|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[yeti|{{white|Y}}]][[ghoul|{{black|Z}}]][[ettin zombie|{{blue|Z}}]][[kobold zombie|{{brown|Z}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[gnome zombie|{{brown|Z}}]][[giant zombie|{{cyan|Z}}]][[elf zombie|{{green|Z}}]][[orc zombie|{{lightgray|Z}}]][[dwarf zombie|{{red|Z}}]][[human zombie|{{white|Z}}]][[skeleton|{{white|Z}}]][[water demon|{{blue|&amp;}}]][[mail daemon|{{brightblue|&amp;}}]][[Juiblex|{{brightgreen|&amp;}}]][[horned devil|{{brown|&amp;}}]][[succubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[incubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[bone devil|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[sandestin|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[Yeenoghu|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Orcus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Geryon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Dispater|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Baalzebub|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Asmodeus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Demogorgon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Death|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Pestilence|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Famine|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[erinys|{{red|&amp;}}]][[barbed devil|{{red|&amp;}}]][[marilith|{{red|&amp;}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[vrock|{{red|&amp;}}]][[hezrou|{{red|&amp;}}]][[nalfeshnee|{{red|&amp;}}]][[pit fiend|{{red|&amp;}}]][[balrog|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Minion of Huhetotl|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Nalzok|{{red|&amp;}}]][[ice devil|{{white|&amp;}}]][[djinni|{{yellow|&amp;}}]][[rope golem|{{brown|'}}]][[leather golem|{{brown|'}}]][[wood golem|{{brown|'}}]][[clay golem|{{brown|'}}]][[glass golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[iron golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[stone golem|{{lightgray|'}}]][[flesh golem|{{red|'}}]][[paper golem|{{white|'}}]][[straw golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[gold golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[salamander|{{brightred|:}}]][[iguana|{{brown|:}}]][[baby crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[chameleon|{{brown|:}}]][[crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[gecko|{{green|:}}]][[lizard|{{green|:}}]][[newt|{{yellow|:}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[jellyfish|{{blue|;}}]][[electric eel|{{brightblue|;}}]][[giant eel|{{cyan|;}}]][[shark|{{lightgray|;}}]][[piranha|{{red|;}}]][[kraken|{{red|;}}]][[Grand Master|{{black|@}}]][[Dark One|{{black|@}}]][[guard|{{blue|@}}]][[captain|{{blue|@}}]][[elf-lord|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Oracle|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Green-elf|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[Medusa|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[werewolf (human)|{{brightred|@}}]][[wererat (human)|{{brown|@}}]][[Woodland-elf|{{green|@}}]][[lieutenant|{{green|@}}]][[watch captain|{{green|@}}]][[Neferet the Green|{{green|@}}]][[Grey-elf|{{lightgray|@}}]][[soldier|{{lightgray|@}}]][[watchman|{{lightgray|@}}]][[Elvenking|{{magenta|@}}]][[Wizard of Yendor|{{magenta|@}}]][[Croesus|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Carnarvon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Pelias|{{magenta|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[Shaman Karnov|{{magenta|@}}]][[Earendil|{{magenta|@}}]][[Hippocrates|{{magenta|@}}]][[King Arthur|{{magenta|@}}]][[Orion|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master of Thieves|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Sato|{{magenta|@}}]][[Norn|{{magenta|@}}]][[Thoth Amon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Kaen|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Assassin|{{magenta|@}}]][[Ashikaga Takauji|{{magenta|@}}]][[werejackal (human)|{{red|@}}]][[sergeant|{{red|@}}]][[human|{{white|@}}]][[elf|{{white|@}}]][[doppelganger|{{white|@}}]][[nurse|{{white|@}}]][[shopkeeper|{{white|@}}]][[prisoner|{{white|@}}]][[aligned priest|{{white|@}}]][[high priest|{{white|@}}]][[Charon|{{white|@}}]][[archeologist|{{white|@}}]][[barbarian|{{white|@}}]][[caveman|{{white|@}}]][[cavewoman|{{white|@}}]][[healer|{{white|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[knight|{{white|@}}]][[monk|{{white|@}}]][[priest|{{white|@}}]][[priestess|{{white|@}}]][[ranger|{{white|@}}]][[rogue|{{white|@}}]][[samurai|{{white|@}}]][[tourist|{{white|@}}]][[valkyrie|{{white|@}}]][[wizard|{{white|@}}]][[Arch Priest|{{white|@}}]][[Twoflower|{{white|@}}]][[student|{{white|@}}]][[chieftain|{{white|@}}]][[neanderthal|{{white|@}}]][[High-elf|{{white|@}}]][[attendant|{{white|@}}]][[page|{{white|@}}]][[abbot|{{white|@}}]][[acolyte|{{white|@}}]][[hunter|{{white|@}}]][[thug|{{white|@}}]][[ninja|{{white|@}}]][[roshi|{{white|@}}]][[guide|{{white|@}}]][[warrior|{{white|@}}]][[apprentice|{{white|@}}]][[long worm tail|{{brown|~}}]]
|}
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>mxvxzov1h2moofsczsmlj01tia564es</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>13844</id>
      <parentid>13831</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-10-10T16:12:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Someone Else</username>
        <id>761</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Removed goblin king, because we're not including other things that were removed, like the mad scientist. Added strange object to the end to make it square again.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="14114">&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:2px;"
|width="60%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; margin-right:2px; vertical-align: top;"|
{{Currentfeature}}
|width="40%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|style="width: 100%; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|colspan="3" style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestibles]]
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Level]]s
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%"
|width="33%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB;  padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|width="33%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[List of NetHack websites|Websites]]
|width="33%" style="background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]] - [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|-
|colspan="4" width="100%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; text-align:center; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Monster]]s===
[[ghost|{{gray|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[shade|{{black|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[giant beetle|{{black|a}}]][[soldier ant|{{blue|a}}]][[giant ant|{{brown|a}}]][[queen bee|{{magenta|a}}]][[fire ant|{{red|a}}]][[killer bee|{{yellow|a}}]][[gelatinous cube|{{cyan|b}}]][[acid blob|{{green|b}}]][[quivering blob|{{white|b}}]][[chickatrice|{{brown|c}}]][[pyrolisk|{{red|c}}]][[cockatrice|{{yellow|c}}]][[jackal|{{brown|d}}]][[coyote|{{brown|d}}]][[werejackal (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[wolf|{{brown|d}}]][[werewolf (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[warg|{{brown|d}}]][[winter wolf cub|{{cyan|d}}]][[winter wolf|{{cyan|d}}]][[fox|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound pup|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound|{{red|d}}]][[Cerberus|{{red|d}}]][[little dog|{{white|d}}]][[dog|{{white|d}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[large dog|{{white|d}}]][[dingo|{{yellow|d}}]][[floating eye|{{blue|e}}]][[shocking sphere|{{brightblue|e}}]][[beholder|{{brown|e}}]][[gas spore|{{lightgray|e}}]][[flaming sphere|{{red|e}}]][[freezing sphere|{{white|e}}]][[panther|{{black|f}}]][[jaguar|{{brown|f}}]][[lynx|{{cyan|f}}]][[kitten|{{white|f}}]][[housecat|{{white|f}}]][[large cat|{{white|f}}]][[tiger|{{yellow|f}}]][[gargoyle|{{brown|g}}]][[gremlin|{{green|g}}]][[winged gargoyle|{{magenta|g}}]][[dwarf lord|{{blue|h}}]][[bugbear|{{brown|h}}]][[hobbit|{{green|h}}]][[dwarf king|{{magenta|h}}]][[mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[master mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[dwarf|{{red|h}}]][[quasit|{{blue|i}}]][[lemure|{{brown|i}}]][[tengu|{{cyan|i}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[homunculus|{{green|i}}]][[manes|{{red|i}}]][[imp|{{red|i}}]][[blue jelly|{{blue|j}}]][[ochre jelly|{{brown|j}}]][[spotted jelly|{{green|j}}]][[kobold shaman|{{brightblue|k}}]][[kobold|{{brown|k}}]][[kobold lord|{{magenta|k}}]][[large kobold|{{red|k}}]][[leprechaun|{{green|l}}]][[small mimic|{{brown|m}}]][[giant mimic|{{magenta|m}}]][[large mimic|{{red|m}}]][[water nymph|{{blue|n}}]][[mountain nymph|{{brown|n}}]][[wood nymph|{{green|n}}]][[Uruk-hai|{{black|o}}]][[Mordor orc|{{blue|o}}]][[orc shaman|{{brightblue|o}}]][[hobgoblin|{{brown|o}}]][[goblin|{{lightgray|o}}]][[orc-captain|{{magenta|o}}]][[orc|{{red|o}}]][[hill orc|{{yellow|o}}]][[iron piercer|{{cyan|p}}]][[rock piercer|{{lightgray|p}}]][[glass piercer|{{white|p}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[mastodon|{{black|q}}]][[rothe|{{brown|q}}]][[wumpus|{{cyan|q}}]][[mumak|{{lightgray|q}}]][[titanothere|{{lightgray|q}}]][[baluchitherium|{{lightgray|q}}]][[leocrotta|{{red|q}}]][[sewer rat|{{brown|r}}]][[giant rat|{{brown|r}}]][[rabid rat|{{brown|r}}]][[wererat (rodent)|{{brown|r}}]][[woodchuck|{{brown|r}}]][[rock mole|{{lightgray|r}}]][[cave spider|{{lightgray|s}}]][[giant spider|{{magenta|s}}]][[Scorpius|{{magenta|s}}]][[scorpion|{{red|s}}]][[centipede|{{yellow|s}}]][[trapper|{{green|t}}]][[lurker above|{{lightgray|t}}]][[black unicorn|{{black|u}}]][[pony|{{brown|u}}]][[horse|{{brown|u}}]][[warhorse|{{brown|u}}]][[gray unicorn|{{lightgray|u}}]][[white unicorn|{{white|u}}]][[steam vortex|{{blue|v}}]][[energy vortex|{{brightblue|v}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[dust vortex|{{brown|v}}]][[ice vortex|{{cyan|v}}]][[fog cloud|{{lightgray|v}}]][[fire vortex|{{yellow|v}}]][[baby long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[baby purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[grid bug|{{magenta|x}}]][[xan|{{red|x}}]][[black light|{{black|y}}]][[yellow light|{{yellow|y}}]][[zruty|{{brown|z}}]][[couatl|{{green|A}}]][[Archon|{{magenta|A}}]][[Angel|{{white|A}}]][[Aleax|{{yellow|A}}]][[ki-rin|{{yellow|A}}]][[raven|{{black|B}}]][[vampire bat|{{black|B}}]][[bat|{{brown|B}}]][[giant bat|{{red|B}}]][[plains centaur|{{brown|C}}]][[mountain centaur|{{cyan|C}}]][[forest centaur|{{green|C}}]][[baby black dragon|{{black|D}}]][[black dragon|{{black|D}}]][[baby blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]][[baby silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[baby orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[baby shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[baby green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[baby gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[Chromatic Dragon|{{magenta|D}}]][[baby red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[Ixoth|{{red|D}}]][[baby white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[baby yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[water elemental|{{blue|E}}]][[earth elemental|{{brown|E}}]][[air elemental|{{cyan|E}}]][[stalker|{{white|E}}]][[fire elemental|{{yellow|E}}]][[lichen|{{brightgreen|F}}]][[brown mold|{{brown|F}}]][[green mold|{{green|F}}]][[shrieker|{{magenta|F}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[violet fungus|{{magenta|F}}]][[red mold|{{red|F}}]][[yellow mold|{{yellow|F}}]][[gnome lord|{{blue|G}}]][[gnomish wizard|{{brightblue|G}}]][[gnome|{{brown|G}}]][[gnome king|{{magenta|G}}]][[storm giant|{{blue|H}}]][[ettin|{{brown|H}}]][[minotaur|{{brown|H}}]][[hill giant|{{cyan|H}}]][[stone giant|{{lightgray|H}}]][[Cyclops|{{lightgray|H}}]][[titan|{{magenta|H}}]][[Lord Surtur|{{magenta|H}}]][[giant|{{red|H}}]][[frost giant|{{white|H}}]][[fire giant|{{yellow|H}}]][[jabberwock|{{brightred|J}}]][[vorpal jabberwock|{{magenta|J}}]][[Keystone Kop|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Sergeant|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Lieutenant|{{cyan|K}}]][[Kop Kaptain|{{magenta|K}}]][[lich|{{brown|L}}]][[master lich|{{magenta|L}}]][[arch-lich|{{magenta|L}}]][[demilich|{{red|L}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[ettin mummy|{{blue|M}}]][[kobold mummy|{{brown|M}}]][[giant mummy|{{cyan|M}}]][[elf mummy|{{green|M}}]][[orc mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[human mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[gnome mummy|{{red|M}}]][[dwarf mummy|{{red|M}}]][[black naga hatchling|{{black|N}}]][[black naga|{{black|N}}]][[guardian naga hatchling|{{green|N}}]][[guardian naga|{{green|N}}]][[red naga hatchling|{{red|N}}]][[red naga|{{red|N}}]][[golden naga hatchling|{{yellow|N}}]][[golden naga|{{yellow|N}}]][[ogre|{{brown|O}}]][[ogre king|{{magenta|O}}]][[ogre lord|{{red|O}}]][[black pudding|{{black|P}}]][[brown pudding|{{brown|P}}]][[green slime|{{green|P}}]][[gray ooze|{{lightgray|P}}]][[quantum mechanic|{{cyan|Q}}]][[disenchanter|{{blue|R}}]][[rust monster|{{brown|R}}]][[pit viper|{{blue|S}}]][[cobra|{{blue|S}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[snake|{{brown|S}}]][[garter snake|{{green|S}}]][[python|{{magenta|S}}]][[water moccasin|{{red|S}}]][[water troll|{{blue|T}}]][[troll|{{brown|T}}]][[rock troll|{{cyan|T}}]][[Olog-hai|{{magenta|T}}]][[ice troll|{{white|T}}]][[umber hulk|{{brown|U}}]][[vampire lord|{{blue|V}}]][[vampire mage|{{brightblue|V}}]][[Vlad the Impaler|{{magenta|V}}]][[vampire|{{red|V}}]][[wraith|{{black|W}}]][[barrow wight|{{lightgray|W}}]][[Nazgul|{{magenta|W}}]][[xorn|{{brown|X}}]][[carnivorous ape|{{black|Y}}]][[ape|{{brown|Y}}]][[owlbear|{{brown|Y}}]][[monkey|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[sasquatch|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[yeti|{{white|Y}}]][[ghoul|{{black|Z}}]][[ettin zombie|{{blue|Z}}]][[kobold zombie|{{brown|Z}}]][[gnome zombie|{{brown|Z}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[giant zombie|{{cyan|Z}}]][[elf zombie|{{green|Z}}]][[orc zombie|{{lightgray|Z}}]][[dwarf zombie|{{red|Z}}]][[human zombie|{{white|Z}}]][[skeleton|{{white|Z}}]][[water demon|{{blue|&amp;}}]][[mail daemon|{{brightblue|&amp;}}]][[Juiblex|{{brightgreen|&amp;}}]][[horned devil|{{brown|&amp;}}]][[succubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[incubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[bone devil|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[sandestin|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[Yeenoghu|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Orcus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Geryon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Dispater|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Baalzebub|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Asmodeus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Demogorgon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Death|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Pestilence|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Famine|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[erinys|{{red|&amp;}}]][[barbed devil|{{red|&amp;}}]][[marilith|{{red|&amp;}}]][[vrock|{{red|&amp;}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[hezrou|{{red|&amp;}}]][[nalfeshnee|{{red|&amp;}}]][[pit fiend|{{red|&amp;}}]][[balrog|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Minion of Huhetotl|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Nalzok|{{red|&amp;}}]][[ice devil|{{white|&amp;}}]][[djinni|{{yellow|&amp;}}]][[rope golem|{{brown|'}}]][[leather golem|{{brown|'}}]][[wood golem|{{brown|'}}]][[clay golem|{{brown|'}}]][[glass golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[iron golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[stone golem|{{lightgray|'}}]][[flesh golem|{{red|'}}]][[paper golem|{{white|'}}]][[straw golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[gold golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[salamander|{{brightred|:}}]][[iguana|{{brown|:}}]][[baby crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[chameleon|{{brown|:}}]][[crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[gecko|{{green|:}}]][[lizard|{{green|:}}]][[newt|{{yellow|:}}]][[jellyfish|{{blue|;}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[electric eel|{{brightblue|;}}]][[giant eel|{{cyan|;}}]][[shark|{{lightgray|;}}]][[piranha|{{red|;}}]][[kraken|{{red|;}}]][[Grand Master|{{black|@}}]][[Dark One|{{black|@}}]][[guard|{{blue|@}}]][[captain|{{blue|@}}]][[elf-lord|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Oracle|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Green-elf|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[Medusa|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[werewolf (human)|{{brightred|@}}]][[wererat (human)|{{brown|@}}]][[Woodland-elf|{{green|@}}]][[lieutenant|{{green|@}}]][[watch captain|{{green|@}}]][[Neferet the Green|{{green|@}}]][[Grey-elf|{{lightgray|@}}]][[soldier|{{lightgray|@}}]][[watchman|{{lightgray|@}}]][[Elvenking|{{magenta|@}}]][[Wizard of Yendor|{{magenta|@}}]][[Croesus|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Carnarvon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Pelias|{{magenta|@}}]][[Shaman Karnov|{{magenta|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[Earendil|{{magenta|@}}]][[Hippocrates|{{magenta|@}}]][[King Arthur|{{magenta|@}}]][[Orion|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master of Thieves|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Sato|{{magenta|@}}]][[Norn|{{magenta|@}}]][[Thoth Amon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Kaen|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Assassin|{{magenta|@}}]][[Ashikaga Takauji|{{magenta|@}}]][[werejackal (human)|{{red|@}}]][[sergeant|{{red|@}}]][[human|{{white|@}}]][[elf|{{white|@}}]][[doppelganger|{{white|@}}]][[nurse|{{white|@}}]][[shopkeeper|{{white|@}}]][[prisoner|{{white|@}}]][[aligned priest|{{white|@}}]][[high priest|{{white|@}}]][[Charon|{{white|@}}]][[archeologist|{{white|@}}]][[barbarian|{{white|@}}]][[caveman|{{white|@}}]][[cavewoman|{{white|@}}]][[healer|{{white|@}}]][[knight|{{white|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[monk|{{white|@}}]][[priest|{{white|@}}]][[priestess|{{white|@}}]][[ranger|{{white|@}}]][[rogue|{{white|@}}]][[samurai|{{white|@}}]][[tourist|{{white|@}}]][[valkyrie|{{white|@}}]][[wizard|{{white|@}}]][[Arch Priest|{{white|@}}]][[Twoflower|{{white|@}}]][[student|{{white|@}}]][[chieftain|{{white|@}}]][[neanderthal|{{white|@}}]][[High-elf|{{white|@}}]][[attendant|{{white|@}}]][[page|{{white|@}}]][[abbot|{{white|@}}]][[acolyte|{{white|@}}]][[hunter|{{white|@}}]][[thug|{{white|@}}]][[ninja|{{white|@}}]][[roshi|{{white|@}}]][[guide|{{white|@}}]][[warrior|{{white|@}}]][[apprentice|{{white|@}}]][[long worm tail|{{brown|~}}]][[strange object|{{black|]}}]]
|}
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>1dbrf1ac3euihi7p56cf6mcxn14xaz8</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>16343</id>
      <parentid>13844</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-12-12T17:17:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>90.192.149.151</ip>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="0" />
      <sha1>phoiac9h4m842xq45sp7s6u21eteeq1</sha1>
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    <revision>
      <id>16347</id>
      <parentid>16343</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-12-12T18:27:24Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/90.192.149.151|90.192.149.151]] ([[User_talk:90.192.149.151|Talk]]); changed back to last version by [[User:Someone Else|Someone Else]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="14114">&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:2px;"
|width="60%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; margin-right:2px; vertical-align: top;"|
{{Currentfeature}}
|width="40%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|style="width: 100%; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|colspan="3" style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestibles]]
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Level]]s
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%"
|width="33%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB;  padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|width="33%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[List of NetHack websites|Websites]]
|width="33%" style="background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]] - [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|-
|colspan="4" width="100%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; text-align:center; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Monster]]s===
[[ghost|{{gray|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[shade|{{black|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[giant beetle|{{black|a}}]][[soldier ant|{{blue|a}}]][[giant ant|{{brown|a}}]][[queen bee|{{magenta|a}}]][[fire ant|{{red|a}}]][[killer bee|{{yellow|a}}]][[gelatinous cube|{{cyan|b}}]][[acid blob|{{green|b}}]][[quivering blob|{{white|b}}]][[chickatrice|{{brown|c}}]][[pyrolisk|{{red|c}}]][[cockatrice|{{yellow|c}}]][[jackal|{{brown|d}}]][[coyote|{{brown|d}}]][[werejackal (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[wolf|{{brown|d}}]][[werewolf (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[warg|{{brown|d}}]][[winter wolf cub|{{cyan|d}}]][[winter wolf|{{cyan|d}}]][[fox|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound pup|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound|{{red|d}}]][[Cerberus|{{red|d}}]][[little dog|{{white|d}}]][[dog|{{white|d}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[large dog|{{white|d}}]][[dingo|{{yellow|d}}]][[floating eye|{{blue|e}}]][[shocking sphere|{{brightblue|e}}]][[beholder|{{brown|e}}]][[gas spore|{{lightgray|e}}]][[flaming sphere|{{red|e}}]][[freezing sphere|{{white|e}}]][[panther|{{black|f}}]][[jaguar|{{brown|f}}]][[lynx|{{cyan|f}}]][[kitten|{{white|f}}]][[housecat|{{white|f}}]][[large cat|{{white|f}}]][[tiger|{{yellow|f}}]][[gargoyle|{{brown|g}}]][[gremlin|{{green|g}}]][[winged gargoyle|{{magenta|g}}]][[dwarf lord|{{blue|h}}]][[bugbear|{{brown|h}}]][[hobbit|{{green|h}}]][[dwarf king|{{magenta|h}}]][[mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[master mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[dwarf|{{red|h}}]][[quasit|{{blue|i}}]][[lemure|{{brown|i}}]][[tengu|{{cyan|i}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[homunculus|{{green|i}}]][[manes|{{red|i}}]][[imp|{{red|i}}]][[blue jelly|{{blue|j}}]][[ochre jelly|{{brown|j}}]][[spotted jelly|{{green|j}}]][[kobold shaman|{{brightblue|k}}]][[kobold|{{brown|k}}]][[kobold lord|{{magenta|k}}]][[large kobold|{{red|k}}]][[leprechaun|{{green|l}}]][[small mimic|{{brown|m}}]][[giant mimic|{{magenta|m}}]][[large mimic|{{red|m}}]][[water nymph|{{blue|n}}]][[mountain nymph|{{brown|n}}]][[wood nymph|{{green|n}}]][[Uruk-hai|{{black|o}}]][[Mordor orc|{{blue|o}}]][[orc shaman|{{brightblue|o}}]][[hobgoblin|{{brown|o}}]][[goblin|{{lightgray|o}}]][[orc-captain|{{magenta|o}}]][[orc|{{red|o}}]][[hill orc|{{yellow|o}}]][[iron piercer|{{cyan|p}}]][[rock piercer|{{lightgray|p}}]][[glass piercer|{{white|p}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[mastodon|{{black|q}}]][[rothe|{{brown|q}}]][[wumpus|{{cyan|q}}]][[mumak|{{lightgray|q}}]][[titanothere|{{lightgray|q}}]][[baluchitherium|{{lightgray|q}}]][[leocrotta|{{red|q}}]][[sewer rat|{{brown|r}}]][[giant rat|{{brown|r}}]][[rabid rat|{{brown|r}}]][[wererat (rodent)|{{brown|r}}]][[woodchuck|{{brown|r}}]][[rock mole|{{lightgray|r}}]][[cave spider|{{lightgray|s}}]][[giant spider|{{magenta|s}}]][[Scorpius|{{magenta|s}}]][[scorpion|{{red|s}}]][[centipede|{{yellow|s}}]][[trapper|{{green|t}}]][[lurker above|{{lightgray|t}}]][[black unicorn|{{black|u}}]][[pony|{{brown|u}}]][[horse|{{brown|u}}]][[warhorse|{{brown|u}}]][[gray unicorn|{{lightgray|u}}]][[white unicorn|{{white|u}}]][[steam vortex|{{blue|v}}]][[energy vortex|{{brightblue|v}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[dust vortex|{{brown|v}}]][[ice vortex|{{cyan|v}}]][[fog cloud|{{lightgray|v}}]][[fire vortex|{{yellow|v}}]][[baby long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[baby purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[grid bug|{{magenta|x}}]][[xan|{{red|x}}]][[black light|{{black|y}}]][[yellow light|{{yellow|y}}]][[zruty|{{brown|z}}]][[couatl|{{green|A}}]][[Archon|{{magenta|A}}]][[Angel|{{white|A}}]][[Aleax|{{yellow|A}}]][[ki-rin|{{yellow|A}}]][[raven|{{black|B}}]][[vampire bat|{{black|B}}]][[bat|{{brown|B}}]][[giant bat|{{red|B}}]][[plains centaur|{{brown|C}}]][[mountain centaur|{{cyan|C}}]][[forest centaur|{{green|C}}]][[baby black dragon|{{black|D}}]][[black dragon|{{black|D}}]][[baby blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]][[baby silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[baby orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[baby shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[baby green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[baby gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[Chromatic Dragon|{{magenta|D}}]][[baby red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[Ixoth|{{red|D}}]][[baby white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[baby yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[water elemental|{{blue|E}}]][[earth elemental|{{brown|E}}]][[air elemental|{{cyan|E}}]][[stalker|{{white|E}}]][[fire elemental|{{yellow|E}}]][[lichen|{{brightgreen|F}}]][[brown mold|{{brown|F}}]][[green mold|{{green|F}}]][[shrieker|{{magenta|F}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[violet fungus|{{magenta|F}}]][[red mold|{{red|F}}]][[yellow mold|{{yellow|F}}]][[gnome lord|{{blue|G}}]][[gnomish wizard|{{brightblue|G}}]][[gnome|{{brown|G}}]][[gnome king|{{magenta|G}}]][[storm giant|{{blue|H}}]][[ettin|{{brown|H}}]][[minotaur|{{brown|H}}]][[hill giant|{{cyan|H}}]][[stone giant|{{lightgray|H}}]][[Cyclops|{{lightgray|H}}]][[titan|{{magenta|H}}]][[Lord Surtur|{{magenta|H}}]][[giant|{{red|H}}]][[frost giant|{{white|H}}]][[fire giant|{{yellow|H}}]][[jabberwock|{{brightred|J}}]][[vorpal jabberwock|{{magenta|J}}]][[Keystone Kop|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Sergeant|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Lieutenant|{{cyan|K}}]][[Kop Kaptain|{{magenta|K}}]][[lich|{{brown|L}}]][[master lich|{{magenta|L}}]][[arch-lich|{{magenta|L}}]][[demilich|{{red|L}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[ettin mummy|{{blue|M}}]][[kobold mummy|{{brown|M}}]][[giant mummy|{{cyan|M}}]][[elf mummy|{{green|M}}]][[orc mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[human mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[gnome mummy|{{red|M}}]][[dwarf mummy|{{red|M}}]][[black naga hatchling|{{black|N}}]][[black naga|{{black|N}}]][[guardian naga hatchling|{{green|N}}]][[guardian naga|{{green|N}}]][[red naga hatchling|{{red|N}}]][[red naga|{{red|N}}]][[golden naga hatchling|{{yellow|N}}]][[golden naga|{{yellow|N}}]][[ogre|{{brown|O}}]][[ogre king|{{magenta|O}}]][[ogre lord|{{red|O}}]][[black pudding|{{black|P}}]][[brown pudding|{{brown|P}}]][[green slime|{{green|P}}]][[gray ooze|{{lightgray|P}}]][[quantum mechanic|{{cyan|Q}}]][[disenchanter|{{blue|R}}]][[rust monster|{{brown|R}}]][[pit viper|{{blue|S}}]][[cobra|{{blue|S}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[snake|{{brown|S}}]][[garter snake|{{green|S}}]][[python|{{magenta|S}}]][[water moccasin|{{red|S}}]][[water troll|{{blue|T}}]][[troll|{{brown|T}}]][[rock troll|{{cyan|T}}]][[Olog-hai|{{magenta|T}}]][[ice troll|{{white|T}}]][[umber hulk|{{brown|U}}]][[vampire lord|{{blue|V}}]][[vampire mage|{{brightblue|V}}]][[Vlad the Impaler|{{magenta|V}}]][[vampire|{{red|V}}]][[wraith|{{black|W}}]][[barrow wight|{{lightgray|W}}]][[Nazgul|{{magenta|W}}]][[xorn|{{brown|X}}]][[carnivorous ape|{{black|Y}}]][[ape|{{brown|Y}}]][[owlbear|{{brown|Y}}]][[monkey|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[sasquatch|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[yeti|{{white|Y}}]][[ghoul|{{black|Z}}]][[ettin zombie|{{blue|Z}}]][[kobold zombie|{{brown|Z}}]][[gnome zombie|{{brown|Z}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[giant zombie|{{cyan|Z}}]][[elf zombie|{{green|Z}}]][[orc zombie|{{lightgray|Z}}]][[dwarf zombie|{{red|Z}}]][[human zombie|{{white|Z}}]][[skeleton|{{white|Z}}]][[water demon|{{blue|&amp;}}]][[mail daemon|{{brightblue|&amp;}}]][[Juiblex|{{brightgreen|&amp;}}]][[horned devil|{{brown|&amp;}}]][[succubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[incubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[bone devil|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[sandestin|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[Yeenoghu|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Orcus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Geryon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Dispater|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Baalzebub|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Asmodeus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Demogorgon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Death|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Pestilence|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Famine|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[erinys|{{red|&amp;}}]][[barbed devil|{{red|&amp;}}]][[marilith|{{red|&amp;}}]][[vrock|{{red|&amp;}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[hezrou|{{red|&amp;}}]][[nalfeshnee|{{red|&amp;}}]][[pit fiend|{{red|&amp;}}]][[balrog|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Minion of Huhetotl|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Nalzok|{{red|&amp;}}]][[ice devil|{{white|&amp;}}]][[djinni|{{yellow|&amp;}}]][[rope golem|{{brown|'}}]][[leather golem|{{brown|'}}]][[wood golem|{{brown|'}}]][[clay golem|{{brown|'}}]][[glass golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[iron golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[stone golem|{{lightgray|'}}]][[flesh golem|{{red|'}}]][[paper golem|{{white|'}}]][[straw golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[gold golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[salamander|{{brightred|:}}]][[iguana|{{brown|:}}]][[baby crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[chameleon|{{brown|:}}]][[crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[gecko|{{green|:}}]][[lizard|{{green|:}}]][[newt|{{yellow|:}}]][[jellyfish|{{blue|;}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[electric eel|{{brightblue|;}}]][[giant eel|{{cyan|;}}]][[shark|{{lightgray|;}}]][[piranha|{{red|;}}]][[kraken|{{red|;}}]][[Grand Master|{{black|@}}]][[Dark One|{{black|@}}]][[guard|{{blue|@}}]][[captain|{{blue|@}}]][[elf-lord|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Oracle|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Green-elf|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[Medusa|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[werewolf (human)|{{brightred|@}}]][[wererat (human)|{{brown|@}}]][[Woodland-elf|{{green|@}}]][[lieutenant|{{green|@}}]][[watch captain|{{green|@}}]][[Neferet the Green|{{green|@}}]][[Grey-elf|{{lightgray|@}}]][[soldier|{{lightgray|@}}]][[watchman|{{lightgray|@}}]][[Elvenking|{{magenta|@}}]][[Wizard of Yendor|{{magenta|@}}]][[Croesus|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Carnarvon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Pelias|{{magenta|@}}]][[Shaman Karnov|{{magenta|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[Earendil|{{magenta|@}}]][[Hippocrates|{{magenta|@}}]][[King Arthur|{{magenta|@}}]][[Orion|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master of Thieves|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Sato|{{magenta|@}}]][[Norn|{{magenta|@}}]][[Thoth Amon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Kaen|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Assassin|{{magenta|@}}]][[Ashikaga Takauji|{{magenta|@}}]][[werejackal (human)|{{red|@}}]][[sergeant|{{red|@}}]][[human|{{white|@}}]][[elf|{{white|@}}]][[doppelganger|{{white|@}}]][[nurse|{{white|@}}]][[shopkeeper|{{white|@}}]][[prisoner|{{white|@}}]][[aligned priest|{{white|@}}]][[high priest|{{white|@}}]][[Charon|{{white|@}}]][[archeologist|{{white|@}}]][[barbarian|{{white|@}}]][[caveman|{{white|@}}]][[cavewoman|{{white|@}}]][[healer|{{white|@}}]][[knight|{{white|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[monk|{{white|@}}]][[priest|{{white|@}}]][[priestess|{{white|@}}]][[ranger|{{white|@}}]][[rogue|{{white|@}}]][[samurai|{{white|@}}]][[tourist|{{white|@}}]][[valkyrie|{{white|@}}]][[wizard|{{white|@}}]][[Arch Priest|{{white|@}}]][[Twoflower|{{white|@}}]][[student|{{white|@}}]][[chieftain|{{white|@}}]][[neanderthal|{{white|@}}]][[High-elf|{{white|@}}]][[attendant|{{white|@}}]][[page|{{white|@}}]][[abbot|{{white|@}}]][[acolyte|{{white|@}}]][[hunter|{{white|@}}]][[thug|{{white|@}}]][[ninja|{{white|@}}]][[roshi|{{white|@}}]][[guide|{{white|@}}]][[warrior|{{white|@}}]][[apprentice|{{white|@}}]][[long worm tail|{{brown|~}}]][[strange object|{{black|]}}]]
|}
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>1dbrf1ac3euihi7p56cf6mcxn14xaz8</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>16348</id>
      <parentid>16347</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-12-12T18:32:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Protected "[[Main Page]]": Reprotecting to avoid occasional abuse from unregistered users. [edit=autoconfirmed:move=sysop]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="14114">&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:2px;"
|width="60%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; margin-right:2px; vertical-align: top;"|
{{Currentfeature}}
|width="40%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|style="width: 100%; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|colspan="3" style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestibles]]
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Level]]s
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%"
|width="33%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB;  padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|width="33%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[List of NetHack websites|Websites]]
|width="33%" style="background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]] - [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|-
|colspan="4" width="100%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; text-align:center; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Monster]]s===
[[ghost|{{gray|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[shade|{{black|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[giant beetle|{{black|a}}]][[soldier ant|{{blue|a}}]][[giant ant|{{brown|a}}]][[queen bee|{{magenta|a}}]][[fire ant|{{red|a}}]][[killer bee|{{yellow|a}}]][[gelatinous cube|{{cyan|b}}]][[acid blob|{{green|b}}]][[quivering blob|{{white|b}}]][[chickatrice|{{brown|c}}]][[pyrolisk|{{red|c}}]][[cockatrice|{{yellow|c}}]][[jackal|{{brown|d}}]][[coyote|{{brown|d}}]][[werejackal (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[wolf|{{brown|d}}]][[werewolf (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[warg|{{brown|d}}]][[winter wolf cub|{{cyan|d}}]][[winter wolf|{{cyan|d}}]][[fox|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound pup|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound|{{red|d}}]][[Cerberus|{{red|d}}]][[little dog|{{white|d}}]][[dog|{{white|d}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[large dog|{{white|d}}]][[dingo|{{yellow|d}}]][[floating eye|{{blue|e}}]][[shocking sphere|{{brightblue|e}}]][[beholder|{{brown|e}}]][[gas spore|{{lightgray|e}}]][[flaming sphere|{{red|e}}]][[freezing sphere|{{white|e}}]][[panther|{{black|f}}]][[jaguar|{{brown|f}}]][[lynx|{{cyan|f}}]][[kitten|{{white|f}}]][[housecat|{{white|f}}]][[large cat|{{white|f}}]][[tiger|{{yellow|f}}]][[gargoyle|{{brown|g}}]][[gremlin|{{green|g}}]][[winged gargoyle|{{magenta|g}}]][[dwarf lord|{{blue|h}}]][[bugbear|{{brown|h}}]][[hobbit|{{green|h}}]][[dwarf king|{{magenta|h}}]][[mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[master mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[dwarf|{{red|h}}]][[quasit|{{blue|i}}]][[lemure|{{brown|i}}]][[tengu|{{cyan|i}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[homunculus|{{green|i}}]][[manes|{{red|i}}]][[imp|{{red|i}}]][[blue jelly|{{blue|j}}]][[ochre jelly|{{brown|j}}]][[spotted jelly|{{green|j}}]][[kobold shaman|{{brightblue|k}}]][[kobold|{{brown|k}}]][[kobold lord|{{magenta|k}}]][[large kobold|{{red|k}}]][[leprechaun|{{green|l}}]][[small mimic|{{brown|m}}]][[giant mimic|{{magenta|m}}]][[large mimic|{{red|m}}]][[water nymph|{{blue|n}}]][[mountain nymph|{{brown|n}}]][[wood nymph|{{green|n}}]][[Uruk-hai|{{black|o}}]][[Mordor orc|{{blue|o}}]][[orc shaman|{{brightblue|o}}]][[hobgoblin|{{brown|o}}]][[goblin|{{lightgray|o}}]][[orc-captain|{{magenta|o}}]][[orc|{{red|o}}]][[hill orc|{{yellow|o}}]][[iron piercer|{{cyan|p}}]][[rock piercer|{{lightgray|p}}]][[glass piercer|{{white|p}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[mastodon|{{black|q}}]][[rothe|{{brown|q}}]][[wumpus|{{cyan|q}}]][[mumak|{{lightgray|q}}]][[titanothere|{{lightgray|q}}]][[baluchitherium|{{lightgray|q}}]][[leocrotta|{{red|q}}]][[sewer rat|{{brown|r}}]][[giant rat|{{brown|r}}]][[rabid rat|{{brown|r}}]][[wererat (rodent)|{{brown|r}}]][[woodchuck|{{brown|r}}]][[rock mole|{{lightgray|r}}]][[cave spider|{{lightgray|s}}]][[giant spider|{{magenta|s}}]][[Scorpius|{{magenta|s}}]][[scorpion|{{red|s}}]][[centipede|{{yellow|s}}]][[trapper|{{green|t}}]][[lurker above|{{lightgray|t}}]][[black unicorn|{{black|u}}]][[pony|{{brown|u}}]][[horse|{{brown|u}}]][[warhorse|{{brown|u}}]][[gray unicorn|{{lightgray|u}}]][[white unicorn|{{white|u}}]][[steam vortex|{{blue|v}}]][[energy vortex|{{brightblue|v}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[dust vortex|{{brown|v}}]][[ice vortex|{{cyan|v}}]][[fog cloud|{{lightgray|v}}]][[fire vortex|{{yellow|v}}]][[baby long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[baby purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[grid bug|{{magenta|x}}]][[xan|{{red|x}}]][[black light|{{black|y}}]][[yellow light|{{yellow|y}}]][[zruty|{{brown|z}}]][[couatl|{{green|A}}]][[Archon|{{magenta|A}}]][[Angel|{{white|A}}]][[Aleax|{{yellow|A}}]][[ki-rin|{{yellow|A}}]][[raven|{{black|B}}]][[vampire bat|{{black|B}}]][[bat|{{brown|B}}]][[giant bat|{{red|B}}]][[plains centaur|{{brown|C}}]][[mountain centaur|{{cyan|C}}]][[forest centaur|{{green|C}}]][[baby black dragon|{{black|D}}]][[black dragon|{{black|D}}]][[baby blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]][[baby silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[baby orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[baby shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[baby green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[baby gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[Chromatic Dragon|{{magenta|D}}]][[baby red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[Ixoth|{{red|D}}]][[baby white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[baby yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[water elemental|{{blue|E}}]][[earth elemental|{{brown|E}}]][[air elemental|{{cyan|E}}]][[stalker|{{white|E}}]][[fire elemental|{{yellow|E}}]][[lichen|{{brightgreen|F}}]][[brown mold|{{brown|F}}]][[green mold|{{green|F}}]][[shrieker|{{magenta|F}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[violet fungus|{{magenta|F}}]][[red mold|{{red|F}}]][[yellow mold|{{yellow|F}}]][[gnome lord|{{blue|G}}]][[gnomish wizard|{{brightblue|G}}]][[gnome|{{brown|G}}]][[gnome king|{{magenta|G}}]][[storm giant|{{blue|H}}]][[ettin|{{brown|H}}]][[minotaur|{{brown|H}}]][[hill giant|{{cyan|H}}]][[stone giant|{{lightgray|H}}]][[Cyclops|{{lightgray|H}}]][[titan|{{magenta|H}}]][[Lord Surtur|{{magenta|H}}]][[giant|{{red|H}}]][[frost giant|{{white|H}}]][[fire giant|{{yellow|H}}]][[jabberwock|{{brightred|J}}]][[vorpal jabberwock|{{magenta|J}}]][[Keystone Kop|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Sergeant|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Lieutenant|{{cyan|K}}]][[Kop Kaptain|{{magenta|K}}]][[lich|{{brown|L}}]][[master lich|{{magenta|L}}]][[arch-lich|{{magenta|L}}]][[demilich|{{red|L}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[ettin mummy|{{blue|M}}]][[kobold mummy|{{brown|M}}]][[giant mummy|{{cyan|M}}]][[elf mummy|{{green|M}}]][[orc mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[human mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[gnome mummy|{{red|M}}]][[dwarf mummy|{{red|M}}]][[black naga hatchling|{{black|N}}]][[black naga|{{black|N}}]][[guardian naga hatchling|{{green|N}}]][[guardian naga|{{green|N}}]][[red naga hatchling|{{red|N}}]][[red naga|{{red|N}}]][[golden naga hatchling|{{yellow|N}}]][[golden naga|{{yellow|N}}]][[ogre|{{brown|O}}]][[ogre king|{{magenta|O}}]][[ogre lord|{{red|O}}]][[black pudding|{{black|P}}]][[brown pudding|{{brown|P}}]][[green slime|{{green|P}}]][[gray ooze|{{lightgray|P}}]][[quantum mechanic|{{cyan|Q}}]][[disenchanter|{{blue|R}}]][[rust monster|{{brown|R}}]][[pit viper|{{blue|S}}]][[cobra|{{blue|S}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[snake|{{brown|S}}]][[garter snake|{{green|S}}]][[python|{{magenta|S}}]][[water moccasin|{{red|S}}]][[water troll|{{blue|T}}]][[troll|{{brown|T}}]][[rock troll|{{cyan|T}}]][[Olog-hai|{{magenta|T}}]][[ice troll|{{white|T}}]][[umber hulk|{{brown|U}}]][[vampire lord|{{blue|V}}]][[vampire mage|{{brightblue|V}}]][[Vlad the Impaler|{{magenta|V}}]][[vampire|{{red|V}}]][[wraith|{{black|W}}]][[barrow wight|{{lightgray|W}}]][[Nazgul|{{magenta|W}}]][[xorn|{{brown|X}}]][[carnivorous ape|{{black|Y}}]][[ape|{{brown|Y}}]][[owlbear|{{brown|Y}}]][[monkey|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[sasquatch|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[yeti|{{white|Y}}]][[ghoul|{{black|Z}}]][[ettin zombie|{{blue|Z}}]][[kobold zombie|{{brown|Z}}]][[gnome zombie|{{brown|Z}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[giant zombie|{{cyan|Z}}]][[elf zombie|{{green|Z}}]][[orc zombie|{{lightgray|Z}}]][[dwarf zombie|{{red|Z}}]][[human zombie|{{white|Z}}]][[skeleton|{{white|Z}}]][[water demon|{{blue|&amp;}}]][[mail daemon|{{brightblue|&amp;}}]][[Juiblex|{{brightgreen|&amp;}}]][[horned devil|{{brown|&amp;}}]][[succubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[incubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[bone devil|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[sandestin|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[Yeenoghu|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Orcus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Geryon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Dispater|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Baalzebub|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Asmodeus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Demogorgon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Death|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Pestilence|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Famine|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[erinys|{{red|&amp;}}]][[barbed devil|{{red|&amp;}}]][[marilith|{{red|&amp;}}]][[vrock|{{red|&amp;}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[hezrou|{{red|&amp;}}]][[nalfeshnee|{{red|&amp;}}]][[pit fiend|{{red|&amp;}}]][[balrog|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Minion of Huhetotl|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Nalzok|{{red|&amp;}}]][[ice devil|{{white|&amp;}}]][[djinni|{{yellow|&amp;}}]][[rope golem|{{brown|'}}]][[leather golem|{{brown|'}}]][[wood golem|{{brown|'}}]][[clay golem|{{brown|'}}]][[glass golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[iron golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[stone golem|{{lightgray|'}}]][[flesh golem|{{red|'}}]][[paper golem|{{white|'}}]][[straw golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[gold golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[salamander|{{brightred|:}}]][[iguana|{{brown|:}}]][[baby crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[chameleon|{{brown|:}}]][[crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[gecko|{{green|:}}]][[lizard|{{green|:}}]][[newt|{{yellow|:}}]][[jellyfish|{{blue|;}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[electric eel|{{brightblue|;}}]][[giant eel|{{cyan|;}}]][[shark|{{lightgray|;}}]][[piranha|{{red|;}}]][[kraken|{{red|;}}]][[Grand Master|{{black|@}}]][[Dark One|{{black|@}}]][[guard|{{blue|@}}]][[captain|{{blue|@}}]][[elf-lord|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Oracle|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Green-elf|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[Medusa|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[werewolf (human)|{{brightred|@}}]][[wererat (human)|{{brown|@}}]][[Woodland-elf|{{green|@}}]][[lieutenant|{{green|@}}]][[watch captain|{{green|@}}]][[Neferet the Green|{{green|@}}]][[Grey-elf|{{lightgray|@}}]][[soldier|{{lightgray|@}}]][[watchman|{{lightgray|@}}]][[Elvenking|{{magenta|@}}]][[Wizard of Yendor|{{magenta|@}}]][[Croesus|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Carnarvon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Pelias|{{magenta|@}}]][[Shaman Karnov|{{magenta|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[Earendil|{{magenta|@}}]][[Hippocrates|{{magenta|@}}]][[King Arthur|{{magenta|@}}]][[Orion|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master of Thieves|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Sato|{{magenta|@}}]][[Norn|{{magenta|@}}]][[Thoth Amon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Kaen|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Assassin|{{magenta|@}}]][[Ashikaga Takauji|{{magenta|@}}]][[werejackal (human)|{{red|@}}]][[sergeant|{{red|@}}]][[human|{{white|@}}]][[elf|{{white|@}}]][[doppelganger|{{white|@}}]][[nurse|{{white|@}}]][[shopkeeper|{{white|@}}]][[prisoner|{{white|@}}]][[aligned priest|{{white|@}}]][[high priest|{{white|@}}]][[Charon|{{white|@}}]][[archeologist|{{white|@}}]][[barbarian|{{white|@}}]][[caveman|{{white|@}}]][[cavewoman|{{white|@}}]][[healer|{{white|@}}]][[knight|{{white|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[monk|{{white|@}}]][[priest|{{white|@}}]][[priestess|{{white|@}}]][[ranger|{{white|@}}]][[rogue|{{white|@}}]][[samurai|{{white|@}}]][[tourist|{{white|@}}]][[valkyrie|{{white|@}}]][[wizard|{{white|@}}]][[Arch Priest|{{white|@}}]][[Twoflower|{{white|@}}]][[student|{{white|@}}]][[chieftain|{{white|@}}]][[neanderthal|{{white|@}}]][[High-elf|{{white|@}}]][[attendant|{{white|@}}]][[page|{{white|@}}]][[abbot|{{white|@}}]][[acolyte|{{white|@}}]][[hunter|{{white|@}}]][[thug|{{white|@}}]][[ninja|{{white|@}}]][[roshi|{{white|@}}]][[guide|{{white|@}}]][[warrior|{{white|@}}]][[apprentice|{{white|@}}]][[long worm tail|{{brown|~}}]][[strange object|{{black|]}}]]
|}
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>1dbrf1ac3euihi7p56cf6mcxn14xaz8</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>16354</id>
      <parentid>16348</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-12-12T21:05:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>In monsters, put the three unicorns together, as suggested on talk page.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="14114">&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' which [[you]] can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:2px;"
|width="60%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; margin-right:2px; vertical-align: top;"|
{{Currentfeature}}
|width="40%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|style="width: 100%; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|colspan="3" style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestibles]]
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Level]]s
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%"
|width="33%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB;  padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|width="33%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[List of NetHack websites|Websites]]
|width="33%" style="background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]] - [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|-
|colspan="4" width="100%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; text-align:center; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Monster]]s===
[[ghost|{{gray|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[shade|{{black|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[giant beetle|{{black|a}}]][[soldier ant|{{blue|a}}]][[giant ant|{{brown|a}}]][[queen bee|{{magenta|a}}]][[fire ant|{{red|a}}]][[killer bee|{{yellow|a}}]][[gelatinous cube|{{cyan|b}}]][[acid blob|{{green|b}}]][[quivering blob|{{white|b}}]][[chickatrice|{{brown|c}}]][[pyrolisk|{{red|c}}]][[cockatrice|{{yellow|c}}]][[jackal|{{brown|d}}]][[coyote|{{brown|d}}]][[werejackal (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[wolf|{{brown|d}}]][[werewolf (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[warg|{{brown|d}}]][[winter wolf cub|{{cyan|d}}]][[winter wolf|{{cyan|d}}]][[fox|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound pup|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound|{{red|d}}]][[Cerberus|{{red|d}}]][[little dog|{{white|d}}]][[dog|{{white|d}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[large dog|{{white|d}}]][[dingo|{{yellow|d}}]][[floating eye|{{blue|e}}]][[shocking sphere|{{brightblue|e}}]][[beholder|{{brown|e}}]][[gas spore|{{lightgray|e}}]][[flaming sphere|{{red|e}}]][[freezing sphere|{{white|e}}]][[panther|{{black|f}}]][[jaguar|{{brown|f}}]][[lynx|{{cyan|f}}]][[kitten|{{white|f}}]][[housecat|{{white|f}}]][[large cat|{{white|f}}]][[tiger|{{yellow|f}}]][[gargoyle|{{brown|g}}]][[gremlin|{{green|g}}]][[winged gargoyle|{{magenta|g}}]][[dwarf lord|{{blue|h}}]][[bugbear|{{brown|h}}]][[hobbit|{{green|h}}]][[dwarf king|{{magenta|h}}]][[mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[master mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[dwarf|{{red|h}}]][[quasit|{{blue|i}}]][[lemure|{{brown|i}}]][[tengu|{{cyan|i}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[homunculus|{{green|i}}]][[manes|{{red|i}}]][[imp|{{red|i}}]][[blue jelly|{{blue|j}}]][[ochre jelly|{{brown|j}}]][[spotted jelly|{{green|j}}]][[kobold shaman|{{brightblue|k}}]][[kobold|{{brown|k}}]][[kobold lord|{{magenta|k}}]][[large kobold|{{red|k}}]][[leprechaun|{{green|l}}]][[small mimic|{{brown|m}}]][[giant mimic|{{magenta|m}}]][[large mimic|{{red|m}}]][[water nymph|{{blue|n}}]][[mountain nymph|{{brown|n}}]][[wood nymph|{{green|n}}]][[Uruk-hai|{{black|o}}]][[Mordor orc|{{blue|o}}]][[orc shaman|{{brightblue|o}}]][[hobgoblin|{{brown|o}}]][[goblin|{{lightgray|o}}]][[orc-captain|{{magenta|o}}]][[orc|{{red|o}}]][[hill orc|{{yellow|o}}]][[iron piercer|{{cyan|p}}]][[rock piercer|{{lightgray|p}}]][[glass piercer|{{white|p}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[mastodon|{{black|q}}]][[rothe|{{brown|q}}]][[wumpus|{{cyan|q}}]][[mumak|{{lightgray|q}}]][[titanothere|{{lightgray|q}}]][[baluchitherium|{{lightgray|q}}]][[leocrotta|{{red|q}}]][[sewer rat|{{brown|r}}]][[giant rat|{{brown|r}}]][[rabid rat|{{brown|r}}]][[wererat (rodent)|{{brown|r}}]][[woodchuck|{{brown|r}}]][[rock mole|{{lightgray|r}}]][[cave spider|{{lightgray|s}}]][[giant spider|{{magenta|s}}]][[Scorpius|{{magenta|s}}]][[scorpion|{{red|s}}]][[centipede|{{yellow|s}}]][[trapper|{{green|t}}]][[lurker above|{{lightgray|t}}]][[pony|{{brown|u}}]][[horse|{{brown|u}}]][[warhorse|{{brown|u}}]][[black unicorn|{{black|u}}]][[gray unicorn|{{lightgray|u}}]][[white unicorn|{{white|u}}]][[steam vortex|{{blue|v}}]][[energy vortex|{{brightblue|v}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[dust vortex|{{brown|v}}]][[ice vortex|{{cyan|v}}]][[fog cloud|{{lightgray|v}}]][[fire vortex|{{yellow|v}}]][[baby long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[baby purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[grid bug|{{magenta|x}}]][[xan|{{red|x}}]][[black light|{{black|y}}]][[yellow light|{{yellow|y}}]][[zruty|{{brown|z}}]][[couatl|{{green|A}}]][[Archon|{{magenta|A}}]][[Angel|{{white|A}}]][[Aleax|{{yellow|A}}]][[ki-rin|{{yellow|A}}]][[raven|{{black|B}}]][[vampire bat|{{black|B}}]][[bat|{{brown|B}}]][[giant bat|{{red|B}}]][[plains centaur|{{brown|C}}]][[mountain centaur|{{cyan|C}}]][[forest centaur|{{green|C}}]][[baby black dragon|{{black|D}}]][[black dragon|{{black|D}}]][[baby blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]][[baby silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[baby orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[baby shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[baby green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[baby gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[Chromatic Dragon|{{magenta|D}}]][[baby red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[Ixoth|{{red|D}}]][[baby white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[baby yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[water elemental|{{blue|E}}]][[earth elemental|{{brown|E}}]][[air elemental|{{cyan|E}}]][[stalker|{{white|E}}]][[fire elemental|{{yellow|E}}]][[lichen|{{brightgreen|F}}]][[brown mold|{{brown|F}}]][[green mold|{{green|F}}]][[shrieker|{{magenta|F}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[violet fungus|{{magenta|F}}]][[red mold|{{red|F}}]][[yellow mold|{{yellow|F}}]][[gnome lord|{{blue|G}}]][[gnomish wizard|{{brightblue|G}}]][[gnome|{{brown|G}}]][[gnome king|{{magenta|G}}]][[storm giant|{{blue|H}}]][[ettin|{{brown|H}}]][[minotaur|{{brown|H}}]][[hill giant|{{cyan|H}}]][[stone giant|{{lightgray|H}}]][[Cyclops|{{lightgray|H}}]][[titan|{{magenta|H}}]][[Lord Surtur|{{magenta|H}}]][[giant|{{red|H}}]][[frost giant|{{white|H}}]][[fire giant|{{yellow|H}}]][[jabberwock|{{brightred|J}}]][[vorpal jabberwock|{{magenta|J}}]][[Keystone Kop|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Sergeant|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Lieutenant|{{cyan|K}}]][[Kop Kaptain|{{magenta|K}}]][[lich|{{brown|L}}]][[master lich|{{magenta|L}}]][[arch-lich|{{magenta|L}}]][[demilich|{{red|L}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[ettin mummy|{{blue|M}}]][[kobold mummy|{{brown|M}}]][[giant mummy|{{cyan|M}}]][[elf mummy|{{green|M}}]][[orc mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[human mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[gnome mummy|{{red|M}}]][[dwarf mummy|{{red|M}}]][[black naga hatchling|{{black|N}}]][[black naga|{{black|N}}]][[guardian naga hatchling|{{green|N}}]][[guardian naga|{{green|N}}]][[red naga hatchling|{{red|N}}]][[red naga|{{red|N}}]][[golden naga hatchling|{{yellow|N}}]][[golden naga|{{yellow|N}}]][[ogre|{{brown|O}}]][[ogre king|{{magenta|O}}]][[ogre lord|{{red|O}}]][[black pudding|{{black|P}}]][[brown pudding|{{brown|P}}]][[green slime|{{green|P}}]][[gray ooze|{{lightgray|P}}]][[quantum mechanic|{{cyan|Q}}]][[disenchanter|{{blue|R}}]][[rust monster|{{brown|R}}]][[pit viper|{{blue|S}}]][[cobra|{{blue|S}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[snake|{{brown|S}}]][[garter snake|{{green|S}}]][[python|{{magenta|S}}]][[water moccasin|{{red|S}}]][[water troll|{{blue|T}}]][[troll|{{brown|T}}]][[rock troll|{{cyan|T}}]][[Olog-hai|{{magenta|T}}]][[ice troll|{{white|T}}]][[umber hulk|{{brown|U}}]][[vampire lord|{{blue|V}}]][[vampire mage|{{brightblue|V}}]][[Vlad the Impaler|{{magenta|V}}]][[vampire|{{red|V}}]][[wraith|{{black|W}}]][[barrow wight|{{lightgray|W}}]][[Nazgul|{{magenta|W}}]][[xorn|{{brown|X}}]][[carnivorous ape|{{black|Y}}]][[ape|{{brown|Y}}]][[owlbear|{{brown|Y}}]][[monkey|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[sasquatch|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[yeti|{{white|Y}}]][[ghoul|{{black|Z}}]][[ettin zombie|{{blue|Z}}]][[kobold zombie|{{brown|Z}}]][[gnome zombie|{{brown|Z}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[giant zombie|{{cyan|Z}}]][[elf zombie|{{green|Z}}]][[orc zombie|{{lightgray|Z}}]][[dwarf zombie|{{red|Z}}]][[human zombie|{{white|Z}}]][[skeleton|{{white|Z}}]][[water demon|{{blue|&amp;}}]][[mail daemon|{{brightblue|&amp;}}]][[Juiblex|{{brightgreen|&amp;}}]][[horned devil|{{brown|&amp;}}]][[succubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[incubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[bone devil|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[sandestin|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[Yeenoghu|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Orcus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Geryon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Dispater|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Baalzebub|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Asmodeus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Demogorgon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Death|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Pestilence|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Famine|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[erinys|{{red|&amp;}}]][[barbed devil|{{red|&amp;}}]][[marilith|{{red|&amp;}}]][[vrock|{{red|&amp;}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[hezrou|{{red|&amp;}}]][[nalfeshnee|{{red|&amp;}}]][[pit fiend|{{red|&amp;}}]][[balrog|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Minion of Huhetotl|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Nalzok|{{red|&amp;}}]][[ice devil|{{white|&amp;}}]][[djinni|{{yellow|&amp;}}]][[rope golem|{{brown|'}}]][[leather golem|{{brown|'}}]][[wood golem|{{brown|'}}]][[clay golem|{{brown|'}}]][[glass golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[iron golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[stone golem|{{lightgray|'}}]][[flesh golem|{{red|'}}]][[paper golem|{{white|'}}]][[straw golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[gold golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[salamander|{{brightred|:}}]][[iguana|{{brown|:}}]][[baby crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[chameleon|{{brown|:}}]][[crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[gecko|{{green|:}}]][[lizard|{{green|:}}]][[newt|{{yellow|:}}]][[jellyfish|{{blue|;}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[electric eel|{{brightblue|;}}]][[giant eel|{{cyan|;}}]][[shark|{{lightgray|;}}]][[piranha|{{red|;}}]][[kraken|{{red|;}}]][[Grand Master|{{black|@}}]][[Dark One|{{black|@}}]][[guard|{{blue|@}}]][[captain|{{blue|@}}]][[elf-lord|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Oracle|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Green-elf|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[Medusa|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[werewolf (human)|{{brightred|@}}]][[wererat (human)|{{brown|@}}]][[Woodland-elf|{{green|@}}]][[lieutenant|{{green|@}}]][[watch captain|{{green|@}}]][[Neferet the Green|{{green|@}}]][[Grey-elf|{{lightgray|@}}]][[soldier|{{lightgray|@}}]][[watchman|{{lightgray|@}}]][[Elvenking|{{magenta|@}}]][[Wizard of Yendor|{{magenta|@}}]][[Croesus|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Carnarvon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Pelias|{{magenta|@}}]][[Shaman Karnov|{{magenta|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[Earendil|{{magenta|@}}]][[Hippocrates|{{magenta|@}}]][[King Arthur|{{magenta|@}}]][[Orion|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master of Thieves|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Sato|{{magenta|@}}]][[Norn|{{magenta|@}}]][[Thoth Amon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Kaen|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Assassin|{{magenta|@}}]][[Ashikaga Takauji|{{magenta|@}}]][[werejackal (human)|{{red|@}}]][[sergeant|{{red|@}}]][[human|{{white|@}}]][[elf|{{white|@}}]][[doppelganger|{{white|@}}]][[nurse|{{white|@}}]][[shopkeeper|{{white|@}}]][[prisoner|{{white|@}}]][[aligned priest|{{white|@}}]][[high priest|{{white|@}}]][[Charon|{{white|@}}]][[archeologist|{{white|@}}]][[barbarian|{{white|@}}]][[caveman|{{white|@}}]][[cavewoman|{{white|@}}]][[healer|{{white|@}}]][[knight|{{white|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[monk|{{white|@}}]][[priest|{{white|@}}]][[priestess|{{white|@}}]][[ranger|{{white|@}}]][[rogue|{{white|@}}]][[samurai|{{white|@}}]][[tourist|{{white|@}}]][[valkyrie|{{white|@}}]][[wizard|{{white|@}}]][[Arch Priest|{{white|@}}]][[Twoflower|{{white|@}}]][[student|{{white|@}}]][[chieftain|{{white|@}}]][[neanderthal|{{white|@}}]][[High-elf|{{white|@}}]][[attendant|{{white|@}}]][[page|{{white|@}}]][[abbot|{{white|@}}]][[acolyte|{{white|@}}]][[hunter|{{white|@}}]][[thug|{{white|@}}]][[ninja|{{white|@}}]][[roshi|{{white|@}}]][[guide|{{white|@}}]][[warrior|{{white|@}}]][[apprentice|{{white|@}}]][[long worm tail|{{brown|~}}]][[strange object|{{black|]}}]]
|}
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>2cuc0lyzbf06jbyj5zipr10zqtn7qai</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>19261</id>
      <parentid>16354</parentid>
      <timestamp>2007-02-27T12:05:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Lotte</username>
        <id>509</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>I had to fix the misplaced modifier, it's been bugging me</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="14128">&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]''. Anyone, including [[you]], can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:2px;"
|width="60%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; margin-right:2px; vertical-align: top;"|
{{Currentfeature}}
|width="40%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|style="width: 100%; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|colspan="3" style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestibles]]
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Level]]s
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%"
|width="33%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB;  padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|width="33%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[List of NetHack websites|Websites]]
|width="33%" style="background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]] - [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|-
|colspan="4" width="100%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; text-align:center; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Monster]]s===
[[ghost|{{gray|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[shade|{{black|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[giant beetle|{{black|a}}]][[soldier ant|{{blue|a}}]][[giant ant|{{brown|a}}]][[queen bee|{{magenta|a}}]][[fire ant|{{red|a}}]][[killer bee|{{yellow|a}}]][[gelatinous cube|{{cyan|b}}]][[acid blob|{{green|b}}]][[quivering blob|{{white|b}}]][[chickatrice|{{brown|c}}]][[pyrolisk|{{red|c}}]][[cockatrice|{{yellow|c}}]][[jackal|{{brown|d}}]][[coyote|{{brown|d}}]][[werejackal (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[wolf|{{brown|d}}]][[werewolf (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[warg|{{brown|d}}]][[winter wolf cub|{{cyan|d}}]][[winter wolf|{{cyan|d}}]][[fox|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound pup|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound|{{red|d}}]][[Cerberus|{{red|d}}]][[little dog|{{white|d}}]][[dog|{{white|d}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[large dog|{{white|d}}]][[dingo|{{yellow|d}}]][[floating eye|{{blue|e}}]][[shocking sphere|{{brightblue|e}}]][[beholder|{{brown|e}}]][[gas spore|{{lightgray|e}}]][[flaming sphere|{{red|e}}]][[freezing sphere|{{white|e}}]][[panther|{{black|f}}]][[jaguar|{{brown|f}}]][[lynx|{{cyan|f}}]][[kitten|{{white|f}}]][[housecat|{{white|f}}]][[large cat|{{white|f}}]][[tiger|{{yellow|f}}]][[gargoyle|{{brown|g}}]][[gremlin|{{green|g}}]][[winged gargoyle|{{magenta|g}}]][[dwarf lord|{{blue|h}}]][[bugbear|{{brown|h}}]][[hobbit|{{green|h}}]][[dwarf king|{{magenta|h}}]][[mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[master mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[dwarf|{{red|h}}]][[quasit|{{blue|i}}]][[lemure|{{brown|i}}]][[tengu|{{cyan|i}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[homunculus|{{green|i}}]][[manes|{{red|i}}]][[imp|{{red|i}}]][[blue jelly|{{blue|j}}]][[ochre jelly|{{brown|j}}]][[spotted jelly|{{green|j}}]][[kobold shaman|{{brightblue|k}}]][[kobold|{{brown|k}}]][[kobold lord|{{magenta|k}}]][[large kobold|{{red|k}}]][[leprechaun|{{green|l}}]][[small mimic|{{brown|m}}]][[giant mimic|{{magenta|m}}]][[large mimic|{{red|m}}]][[water nymph|{{blue|n}}]][[mountain nymph|{{brown|n}}]][[wood nymph|{{green|n}}]][[Uruk-hai|{{black|o}}]][[Mordor orc|{{blue|o}}]][[orc shaman|{{brightblue|o}}]][[hobgoblin|{{brown|o}}]][[goblin|{{lightgray|o}}]][[orc-captain|{{magenta|o}}]][[orc|{{red|o}}]][[hill orc|{{yellow|o}}]][[iron piercer|{{cyan|p}}]][[rock piercer|{{lightgray|p}}]][[glass piercer|{{white|p}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[mastodon|{{black|q}}]][[rothe|{{brown|q}}]][[wumpus|{{cyan|q}}]][[mumak|{{lightgray|q}}]][[titanothere|{{lightgray|q}}]][[baluchitherium|{{lightgray|q}}]][[leocrotta|{{red|q}}]][[sewer rat|{{brown|r}}]][[giant rat|{{brown|r}}]][[rabid rat|{{brown|r}}]][[wererat (rodent)|{{brown|r}}]][[woodchuck|{{brown|r}}]][[rock mole|{{lightgray|r}}]][[cave spider|{{lightgray|s}}]][[giant spider|{{magenta|s}}]][[Scorpius|{{magenta|s}}]][[scorpion|{{red|s}}]][[centipede|{{yellow|s}}]][[trapper|{{green|t}}]][[lurker above|{{lightgray|t}}]][[pony|{{brown|u}}]][[horse|{{brown|u}}]][[warhorse|{{brown|u}}]][[black unicorn|{{black|u}}]][[gray unicorn|{{lightgray|u}}]][[white unicorn|{{white|u}}]][[steam vortex|{{blue|v}}]][[energy vortex|{{brightblue|v}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[dust vortex|{{brown|v}}]][[ice vortex|{{cyan|v}}]][[fog cloud|{{lightgray|v}}]][[fire vortex|{{yellow|v}}]][[baby long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[baby purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[grid bug|{{magenta|x}}]][[xan|{{red|x}}]][[black light|{{black|y}}]][[yellow light|{{yellow|y}}]][[zruty|{{brown|z}}]][[couatl|{{green|A}}]][[Archon|{{magenta|A}}]][[Angel|{{white|A}}]][[Aleax|{{yellow|A}}]][[ki-rin|{{yellow|A}}]][[raven|{{black|B}}]][[vampire bat|{{black|B}}]][[bat|{{brown|B}}]][[giant bat|{{red|B}}]][[plains centaur|{{brown|C}}]][[mountain centaur|{{cyan|C}}]][[forest centaur|{{green|C}}]][[baby black dragon|{{black|D}}]][[black dragon|{{black|D}}]][[baby blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]][[baby silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[baby orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[baby shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[baby green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[baby gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[Chromatic Dragon|{{magenta|D}}]][[baby red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[Ixoth|{{red|D}}]][[baby white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[baby yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[water elemental|{{blue|E}}]][[earth elemental|{{brown|E}}]][[air elemental|{{cyan|E}}]][[stalker|{{white|E}}]][[fire elemental|{{yellow|E}}]][[lichen|{{brightgreen|F}}]][[brown mold|{{brown|F}}]][[green mold|{{green|F}}]][[shrieker|{{magenta|F}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[violet fungus|{{magenta|F}}]][[red mold|{{red|F}}]][[yellow mold|{{yellow|F}}]][[gnome lord|{{blue|G}}]][[gnomish wizard|{{brightblue|G}}]][[gnome|{{brown|G}}]][[gnome king|{{magenta|G}}]][[storm giant|{{blue|H}}]][[ettin|{{brown|H}}]][[minotaur|{{brown|H}}]][[hill giant|{{cyan|H}}]][[stone giant|{{lightgray|H}}]][[Cyclops|{{lightgray|H}}]][[titan|{{magenta|H}}]][[Lord Surtur|{{magenta|H}}]][[giant|{{red|H}}]][[frost giant|{{white|H}}]][[fire giant|{{yellow|H}}]][[jabberwock|{{brightred|J}}]][[vorpal jabberwock|{{magenta|J}}]][[Keystone Kop|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Sergeant|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Lieutenant|{{cyan|K}}]][[Kop Kaptain|{{magenta|K}}]][[lich|{{brown|L}}]][[master lich|{{magenta|L}}]][[arch-lich|{{magenta|L}}]][[demilich|{{red|L}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[ettin mummy|{{blue|M}}]][[kobold mummy|{{brown|M}}]][[giant mummy|{{cyan|M}}]][[elf mummy|{{green|M}}]][[orc mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[human mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[gnome mummy|{{red|M}}]][[dwarf mummy|{{red|M}}]][[black naga hatchling|{{black|N}}]][[black naga|{{black|N}}]][[guardian naga hatchling|{{green|N}}]][[guardian naga|{{green|N}}]][[red naga hatchling|{{red|N}}]][[red naga|{{red|N}}]][[golden naga hatchling|{{yellow|N}}]][[golden naga|{{yellow|N}}]][[ogre|{{brown|O}}]][[ogre king|{{magenta|O}}]][[ogre lord|{{red|O}}]][[black pudding|{{black|P}}]][[brown pudding|{{brown|P}}]][[green slime|{{green|P}}]][[gray ooze|{{lightgray|P}}]][[quantum mechanic|{{cyan|Q}}]][[disenchanter|{{blue|R}}]][[rust monster|{{brown|R}}]][[pit viper|{{blue|S}}]][[cobra|{{blue|S}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[snake|{{brown|S}}]][[garter snake|{{green|S}}]][[python|{{magenta|S}}]][[water moccasin|{{red|S}}]][[water troll|{{blue|T}}]][[troll|{{brown|T}}]][[rock troll|{{cyan|T}}]][[Olog-hai|{{magenta|T}}]][[ice troll|{{white|T}}]][[umber hulk|{{brown|U}}]][[vampire lord|{{blue|V}}]][[vampire mage|{{brightblue|V}}]][[Vlad the Impaler|{{magenta|V}}]][[vampire|{{red|V}}]][[wraith|{{black|W}}]][[barrow wight|{{lightgray|W}}]][[Nazgul|{{magenta|W}}]][[xorn|{{brown|X}}]][[carnivorous ape|{{black|Y}}]][[ape|{{brown|Y}}]][[owlbear|{{brown|Y}}]][[monkey|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[sasquatch|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[yeti|{{white|Y}}]][[ghoul|{{black|Z}}]][[ettin zombie|{{blue|Z}}]][[kobold zombie|{{brown|Z}}]][[gnome zombie|{{brown|Z}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[giant zombie|{{cyan|Z}}]][[elf zombie|{{green|Z}}]][[orc zombie|{{lightgray|Z}}]][[dwarf zombie|{{red|Z}}]][[human zombie|{{white|Z}}]][[skeleton|{{white|Z}}]][[water demon|{{blue|&amp;}}]][[mail daemon|{{brightblue|&amp;}}]][[Juiblex|{{brightgreen|&amp;}}]][[horned devil|{{brown|&amp;}}]][[succubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[incubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[bone devil|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[sandestin|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[Yeenoghu|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Orcus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Geryon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Dispater|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Baalzebub|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Asmodeus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Demogorgon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Death|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Pestilence|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Famine|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[erinys|{{red|&amp;}}]][[barbed devil|{{red|&amp;}}]][[marilith|{{red|&amp;}}]][[vrock|{{red|&amp;}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[hezrou|{{red|&amp;}}]][[nalfeshnee|{{red|&amp;}}]][[pit fiend|{{red|&amp;}}]][[balrog|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Minion of Huhetotl|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Nalzok|{{red|&amp;}}]][[ice devil|{{white|&amp;}}]][[djinni|{{yellow|&amp;}}]][[rope golem|{{brown|'}}]][[leather golem|{{brown|'}}]][[wood golem|{{brown|'}}]][[clay golem|{{brown|'}}]][[glass golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[iron golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[stone golem|{{lightgray|'}}]][[flesh golem|{{red|'}}]][[paper golem|{{white|'}}]][[straw golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[gold golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[salamander|{{brightred|:}}]][[iguana|{{brown|:}}]][[baby crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[chameleon|{{brown|:}}]][[crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[gecko|{{green|:}}]][[lizard|{{green|:}}]][[newt|{{yellow|:}}]][[jellyfish|{{blue|;}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[electric eel|{{brightblue|;}}]][[giant eel|{{cyan|;}}]][[shark|{{lightgray|;}}]][[piranha|{{red|;}}]][[kraken|{{red|;}}]][[Grand Master|{{black|@}}]][[Dark One|{{black|@}}]][[guard|{{blue|@}}]][[captain|{{blue|@}}]][[elf-lord|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Oracle|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Green-elf|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[Medusa|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[werewolf (human)|{{brightred|@}}]][[wererat (human)|{{brown|@}}]][[Woodland-elf|{{green|@}}]][[lieutenant|{{green|@}}]][[watch captain|{{green|@}}]][[Neferet the Green|{{green|@}}]][[Grey-elf|{{lightgray|@}}]][[soldier|{{lightgray|@}}]][[watchman|{{lightgray|@}}]][[Elvenking|{{magenta|@}}]][[Wizard of Yendor|{{magenta|@}}]][[Croesus|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Carnarvon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Pelias|{{magenta|@}}]][[Shaman Karnov|{{magenta|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[Earendil|{{magenta|@}}]][[Hippocrates|{{magenta|@}}]][[King Arthur|{{magenta|@}}]][[Orion|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master of Thieves|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Sato|{{magenta|@}}]][[Norn|{{magenta|@}}]][[Thoth Amon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Kaen|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Assassin|{{magenta|@}}]][[Ashikaga Takauji|{{magenta|@}}]][[werejackal (human)|{{red|@}}]][[sergeant|{{red|@}}]][[human|{{white|@}}]][[elf|{{white|@}}]][[doppelganger|{{white|@}}]][[nurse|{{white|@}}]][[shopkeeper|{{white|@}}]][[prisoner|{{white|@}}]][[aligned priest|{{white|@}}]][[high priest|{{white|@}}]][[Charon|{{white|@}}]][[archeologist|{{white|@}}]][[barbarian|{{white|@}}]][[caveman|{{white|@}}]][[cavewoman|{{white|@}}]][[healer|{{white|@}}]][[knight|{{white|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[monk|{{white|@}}]][[priest|{{white|@}}]][[priestess|{{white|@}}]][[ranger|{{white|@}}]][[rogue|{{white|@}}]][[samurai|{{white|@}}]][[tourist|{{white|@}}]][[valkyrie|{{white|@}}]][[wizard|{{white|@}}]][[Arch Priest|{{white|@}}]][[Twoflower|{{white|@}}]][[student|{{white|@}}]][[chieftain|{{white|@}}]][[neanderthal|{{white|@}}]][[High-elf|{{white|@}}]][[attendant|{{white|@}}]][[page|{{white|@}}]][[abbot|{{white|@}}]][[acolyte|{{white|@}}]][[hunter|{{white|@}}]][[thug|{{white|@}}]][[ninja|{{white|@}}]][[roshi|{{white|@}}]][[guide|{{white|@}}]][[warrior|{{white|@}}]][[apprentice|{{white|@}}]][[long worm tail|{{brown|~}}]][[strange object|{{black|]}}]]
|}
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>kkzelhj1lxwy2423ygc9mpcfv26zui4</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>19453</id>
      <parentid>19261</parentid>
      <timestamp>2007-03-04T20:12:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Creativename</username>
        <id>166</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Removing plug for redirect.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="14111">&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]''that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:2px;"
|width="60%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; margin-right:2px; vertical-align: top;"|
{{Currentfeature}}
|width="40%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|style="width: 100%; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|colspan="3" style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestibles]]
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Level]]s
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%"
|width="33%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB;  padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|width="33%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[List of NetHack websites|Websites]]
|width="33%" style="background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]] - [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|-
|colspan="4" width="100%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; text-align:center; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Monster]]s===
[[ghost|{{gray|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[shade|{{black|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[giant beetle|{{black|a}}]][[soldier ant|{{blue|a}}]][[giant ant|{{brown|a}}]][[queen bee|{{magenta|a}}]][[fire ant|{{red|a}}]][[killer bee|{{yellow|a}}]][[gelatinous cube|{{cyan|b}}]][[acid blob|{{green|b}}]][[quivering blob|{{white|b}}]][[chickatrice|{{brown|c}}]][[pyrolisk|{{red|c}}]][[cockatrice|{{yellow|c}}]][[jackal|{{brown|d}}]][[coyote|{{brown|d}}]][[werejackal (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[wolf|{{brown|d}}]][[werewolf (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[warg|{{brown|d}}]][[winter wolf cub|{{cyan|d}}]][[winter wolf|{{cyan|d}}]][[fox|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound pup|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound|{{red|d}}]][[Cerberus|{{red|d}}]][[little dog|{{white|d}}]][[dog|{{white|d}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[large dog|{{white|d}}]][[dingo|{{yellow|d}}]][[floating eye|{{blue|e}}]][[shocking sphere|{{brightblue|e}}]][[beholder|{{brown|e}}]][[gas spore|{{lightgray|e}}]][[flaming sphere|{{red|e}}]][[freezing sphere|{{white|e}}]][[panther|{{black|f}}]][[jaguar|{{brown|f}}]][[lynx|{{cyan|f}}]][[kitten|{{white|f}}]][[housecat|{{white|f}}]][[large cat|{{white|f}}]][[tiger|{{yellow|f}}]][[gargoyle|{{brown|g}}]][[gremlin|{{green|g}}]][[winged gargoyle|{{magenta|g}}]][[dwarf lord|{{blue|h}}]][[bugbear|{{brown|h}}]][[hobbit|{{green|h}}]][[dwarf king|{{magenta|h}}]][[mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[master mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[dwarf|{{red|h}}]][[quasit|{{blue|i}}]][[lemure|{{brown|i}}]][[tengu|{{cyan|i}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[homunculus|{{green|i}}]][[manes|{{red|i}}]][[imp|{{red|i}}]][[blue jelly|{{blue|j}}]][[ochre jelly|{{brown|j}}]][[spotted jelly|{{green|j}}]][[kobold shaman|{{brightblue|k}}]][[kobold|{{brown|k}}]][[kobold lord|{{magenta|k}}]][[large kobold|{{red|k}}]][[leprechaun|{{green|l}}]][[small mimic|{{brown|m}}]][[giant mimic|{{magenta|m}}]][[large mimic|{{red|m}}]][[water nymph|{{blue|n}}]][[mountain nymph|{{brown|n}}]][[wood nymph|{{green|n}}]][[Uruk-hai|{{black|o}}]][[Mordor orc|{{blue|o}}]][[orc shaman|{{brightblue|o}}]][[hobgoblin|{{brown|o}}]][[goblin|{{lightgray|o}}]][[orc-captain|{{magenta|o}}]][[orc|{{red|o}}]][[hill orc|{{yellow|o}}]][[iron piercer|{{cyan|p}}]][[rock piercer|{{lightgray|p}}]][[glass piercer|{{white|p}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[mastodon|{{black|q}}]][[rothe|{{brown|q}}]][[wumpus|{{cyan|q}}]][[mumak|{{lightgray|q}}]][[titanothere|{{lightgray|q}}]][[baluchitherium|{{lightgray|q}}]][[leocrotta|{{red|q}}]][[sewer rat|{{brown|r}}]][[giant rat|{{brown|r}}]][[rabid rat|{{brown|r}}]][[wererat (rodent)|{{brown|r}}]][[woodchuck|{{brown|r}}]][[rock mole|{{lightgray|r}}]][[cave spider|{{lightgray|s}}]][[giant spider|{{magenta|s}}]][[Scorpius|{{magenta|s}}]][[scorpion|{{red|s}}]][[centipede|{{yellow|s}}]][[trapper|{{green|t}}]][[lurker above|{{lightgray|t}}]][[pony|{{brown|u}}]][[horse|{{brown|u}}]][[warhorse|{{brown|u}}]][[black unicorn|{{black|u}}]][[gray unicorn|{{lightgray|u}}]][[white unicorn|{{white|u}}]][[steam vortex|{{blue|v}}]][[energy vortex|{{brightblue|v}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[dust vortex|{{brown|v}}]][[ice vortex|{{cyan|v}}]][[fog cloud|{{lightgray|v}}]][[fire vortex|{{yellow|v}}]][[baby long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[baby purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[grid bug|{{magenta|x}}]][[xan|{{red|x}}]][[black light|{{black|y}}]][[yellow light|{{yellow|y}}]][[zruty|{{brown|z}}]][[couatl|{{green|A}}]][[Archon|{{magenta|A}}]][[Angel|{{white|A}}]][[Aleax|{{yellow|A}}]][[ki-rin|{{yellow|A}}]][[raven|{{black|B}}]][[vampire bat|{{black|B}}]][[bat|{{brown|B}}]][[giant bat|{{red|B}}]][[plains centaur|{{brown|C}}]][[mountain centaur|{{cyan|C}}]][[forest centaur|{{green|C}}]][[baby black dragon|{{black|D}}]][[black dragon|{{black|D}}]][[baby blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]][[baby silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[baby orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[baby shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[baby green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[baby gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[Chromatic Dragon|{{magenta|D}}]][[baby red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[Ixoth|{{red|D}}]][[baby white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[baby yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[water elemental|{{blue|E}}]][[earth elemental|{{brown|E}}]][[air elemental|{{cyan|E}}]][[stalker|{{white|E}}]][[fire elemental|{{yellow|E}}]][[lichen|{{brightgreen|F}}]][[brown mold|{{brown|F}}]][[green mold|{{green|F}}]][[shrieker|{{magenta|F}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[violet fungus|{{magenta|F}}]][[red mold|{{red|F}}]][[yellow mold|{{yellow|F}}]][[gnome lord|{{blue|G}}]][[gnomish wizard|{{brightblue|G}}]][[gnome|{{brown|G}}]][[gnome king|{{magenta|G}}]][[storm giant|{{blue|H}}]][[ettin|{{brown|H}}]][[minotaur|{{brown|H}}]][[hill giant|{{cyan|H}}]][[stone giant|{{lightgray|H}}]][[Cyclops|{{lightgray|H}}]][[titan|{{magenta|H}}]][[Lord Surtur|{{magenta|H}}]][[giant|{{red|H}}]][[frost giant|{{white|H}}]][[fire giant|{{yellow|H}}]][[jabberwock|{{brightred|J}}]][[vorpal jabberwock|{{magenta|J}}]][[Keystone Kop|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Sergeant|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Lieutenant|{{cyan|K}}]][[Kop Kaptain|{{magenta|K}}]][[lich|{{brown|L}}]][[master lich|{{magenta|L}}]][[arch-lich|{{magenta|L}}]][[demilich|{{red|L}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[ettin mummy|{{blue|M}}]][[kobold mummy|{{brown|M}}]][[giant mummy|{{cyan|M}}]][[elf mummy|{{green|M}}]][[orc mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[human mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[gnome mummy|{{red|M}}]][[dwarf mummy|{{red|M}}]][[black naga hatchling|{{black|N}}]][[black naga|{{black|N}}]][[guardian naga hatchling|{{green|N}}]][[guardian naga|{{green|N}}]][[red naga hatchling|{{red|N}}]][[red naga|{{red|N}}]][[golden naga hatchling|{{yellow|N}}]][[golden naga|{{yellow|N}}]][[ogre|{{brown|O}}]][[ogre king|{{magenta|O}}]][[ogre lord|{{red|O}}]][[black pudding|{{black|P}}]][[brown pudding|{{brown|P}}]][[green slime|{{green|P}}]][[gray ooze|{{lightgray|P}}]][[quantum mechanic|{{cyan|Q}}]][[disenchanter|{{blue|R}}]][[rust monster|{{brown|R}}]][[pit viper|{{blue|S}}]][[cobra|{{blue|S}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[snake|{{brown|S}}]][[garter snake|{{green|S}}]][[python|{{magenta|S}}]][[water moccasin|{{red|S}}]][[water troll|{{blue|T}}]][[troll|{{brown|T}}]][[rock troll|{{cyan|T}}]][[Olog-hai|{{magenta|T}}]][[ice troll|{{white|T}}]][[umber hulk|{{brown|U}}]][[vampire lord|{{blue|V}}]][[vampire mage|{{brightblue|V}}]][[Vlad the Impaler|{{magenta|V}}]][[vampire|{{red|V}}]][[wraith|{{black|W}}]][[barrow wight|{{lightgray|W}}]][[Nazgul|{{magenta|W}}]][[xorn|{{brown|X}}]][[carnivorous ape|{{black|Y}}]][[ape|{{brown|Y}}]][[owlbear|{{brown|Y}}]][[monkey|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[sasquatch|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[yeti|{{white|Y}}]][[ghoul|{{black|Z}}]][[ettin zombie|{{blue|Z}}]][[kobold zombie|{{brown|Z}}]][[gnome zombie|{{brown|Z}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[giant zombie|{{cyan|Z}}]][[elf zombie|{{green|Z}}]][[orc zombie|{{lightgray|Z}}]][[dwarf zombie|{{red|Z}}]][[human zombie|{{white|Z}}]][[skeleton|{{white|Z}}]][[water demon|{{blue|&amp;}}]][[mail daemon|{{brightblue|&amp;}}]][[Juiblex|{{brightgreen|&amp;}}]][[horned devil|{{brown|&amp;}}]][[succubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[incubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[bone devil|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[sandestin|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[Yeenoghu|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Orcus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Geryon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Dispater|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Baalzebub|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Asmodeus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Demogorgon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Death|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Pestilence|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Famine|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[erinys|{{red|&amp;}}]][[barbed devil|{{red|&amp;}}]][[marilith|{{red|&amp;}}]][[vrock|{{red|&amp;}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[hezrou|{{red|&amp;}}]][[nalfeshnee|{{red|&amp;}}]][[pit fiend|{{red|&amp;}}]][[balrog|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Minion of Huhetotl|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Nalzok|{{red|&amp;}}]][[ice devil|{{white|&amp;}}]][[djinni|{{yellow|&amp;}}]][[rope golem|{{brown|'}}]][[leather golem|{{brown|'}}]][[wood golem|{{brown|'}}]][[clay golem|{{brown|'}}]][[glass golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[iron golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[stone golem|{{lightgray|'}}]][[flesh golem|{{red|'}}]][[paper golem|{{white|'}}]][[straw golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[gold golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[salamander|{{brightred|:}}]][[iguana|{{brown|:}}]][[baby crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[chameleon|{{brown|:}}]][[crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[gecko|{{green|:}}]][[lizard|{{green|:}}]][[newt|{{yellow|:}}]][[jellyfish|{{blue|;}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[electric eel|{{brightblue|;}}]][[giant eel|{{cyan|;}}]][[shark|{{lightgray|;}}]][[piranha|{{red|;}}]][[kraken|{{red|;}}]][[Grand Master|{{black|@}}]][[Dark One|{{black|@}}]][[guard|{{blue|@}}]][[captain|{{blue|@}}]][[elf-lord|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Oracle|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Green-elf|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[Medusa|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[werewolf (human)|{{brightred|@}}]][[wererat (human)|{{brown|@}}]][[Woodland-elf|{{green|@}}]][[lieutenant|{{green|@}}]][[watch captain|{{green|@}}]][[Neferet the Green|{{green|@}}]][[Grey-elf|{{lightgray|@}}]][[soldier|{{lightgray|@}}]][[watchman|{{lightgray|@}}]][[Elvenking|{{magenta|@}}]][[Wizard of Yendor|{{magenta|@}}]][[Croesus|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Carnarvon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Pelias|{{magenta|@}}]][[Shaman Karnov|{{magenta|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[Earendil|{{magenta|@}}]][[Hippocrates|{{magenta|@}}]][[King Arthur|{{magenta|@}}]][[Orion|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master of Thieves|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Sato|{{magenta|@}}]][[Norn|{{magenta|@}}]][[Thoth Amon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Kaen|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Assassin|{{magenta|@}}]][[Ashikaga Takauji|{{magenta|@}}]][[werejackal (human)|{{red|@}}]][[sergeant|{{red|@}}]][[human|{{white|@}}]][[elf|{{white|@}}]][[doppelganger|{{white|@}}]][[nurse|{{white|@}}]][[shopkeeper|{{white|@}}]][[prisoner|{{white|@}}]][[aligned priest|{{white|@}}]][[high priest|{{white|@}}]][[Charon|{{white|@}}]][[archeologist|{{white|@}}]][[barbarian|{{white|@}}]][[caveman|{{white|@}}]][[cavewoman|{{white|@}}]][[healer|{{white|@}}]][[knight|{{white|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[monk|{{white|@}}]][[priest|{{white|@}}]][[priestess|{{white|@}}]][[ranger|{{white|@}}]][[rogue|{{white|@}}]][[samurai|{{white|@}}]][[tourist|{{white|@}}]][[valkyrie|{{white|@}}]][[wizard|{{white|@}}]][[Arch Priest|{{white|@}}]][[Twoflower|{{white|@}}]][[student|{{white|@}}]][[chieftain|{{white|@}}]][[neanderthal|{{white|@}}]][[High-elf|{{white|@}}]][[attendant|{{white|@}}]][[page|{{white|@}}]][[abbot|{{white|@}}]][[acolyte|{{white|@}}]][[hunter|{{white|@}}]][[thug|{{white|@}}]][[ninja|{{white|@}}]][[roshi|{{white|@}}]][[guide|{{white|@}}]][[warrior|{{white|@}}]][[apprentice|{{white|@}}]][[long worm tail|{{brown|~}}]][[strange object|{{black|]}}]]
|}
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>nn0q9zu7ipkmptpe4rzo0wygddnrzw9</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>19454</id>
      <parentid>19453</parentid>
      <timestamp>2007-03-04T21:40:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Lotte</username>
        <id>509</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>space</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="14112">&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:2px;"
|width="60%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; margin-right:2px; vertical-align: top;"|
{{Currentfeature}}
|width="40%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|style="width: 100%; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|colspan="3" style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestibles]]
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Level]]s
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%"
|width="33%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB;  padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|width="33%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[List of NetHack websites|Websites]]
|width="33%" style="background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]] - [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|-
|colspan="4" width="100%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; text-align:center; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Monster]]s===
[[ghost|{{gray|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[shade|{{black|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[giant beetle|{{black|a}}]][[soldier ant|{{blue|a}}]][[giant ant|{{brown|a}}]][[queen bee|{{magenta|a}}]][[fire ant|{{red|a}}]][[killer bee|{{yellow|a}}]][[gelatinous cube|{{cyan|b}}]][[acid blob|{{green|b}}]][[quivering blob|{{white|b}}]][[chickatrice|{{brown|c}}]][[pyrolisk|{{red|c}}]][[cockatrice|{{yellow|c}}]][[jackal|{{brown|d}}]][[coyote|{{brown|d}}]][[werejackal (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[wolf|{{brown|d}}]][[werewolf (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[warg|{{brown|d}}]][[winter wolf cub|{{cyan|d}}]][[winter wolf|{{cyan|d}}]][[fox|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound pup|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound|{{red|d}}]][[Cerberus|{{red|d}}]][[little dog|{{white|d}}]][[dog|{{white|d}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[large dog|{{white|d}}]][[dingo|{{yellow|d}}]][[floating eye|{{blue|e}}]][[shocking sphere|{{brightblue|e}}]][[beholder|{{brown|e}}]][[gas spore|{{lightgray|e}}]][[flaming sphere|{{red|e}}]][[freezing sphere|{{white|e}}]][[panther|{{black|f}}]][[jaguar|{{brown|f}}]][[lynx|{{cyan|f}}]][[kitten|{{white|f}}]][[housecat|{{white|f}}]][[large cat|{{white|f}}]][[tiger|{{yellow|f}}]][[gargoyle|{{brown|g}}]][[gremlin|{{green|g}}]][[winged gargoyle|{{magenta|g}}]][[dwarf lord|{{blue|h}}]][[bugbear|{{brown|h}}]][[hobbit|{{green|h}}]][[dwarf king|{{magenta|h}}]][[mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[master mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[dwarf|{{red|h}}]][[quasit|{{blue|i}}]][[lemure|{{brown|i}}]][[tengu|{{cyan|i}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[homunculus|{{green|i}}]][[manes|{{red|i}}]][[imp|{{red|i}}]][[blue jelly|{{blue|j}}]][[ochre jelly|{{brown|j}}]][[spotted jelly|{{green|j}}]][[kobold shaman|{{brightblue|k}}]][[kobold|{{brown|k}}]][[kobold lord|{{magenta|k}}]][[large kobold|{{red|k}}]][[leprechaun|{{green|l}}]][[small mimic|{{brown|m}}]][[giant mimic|{{magenta|m}}]][[large mimic|{{red|m}}]][[water nymph|{{blue|n}}]][[mountain nymph|{{brown|n}}]][[wood nymph|{{green|n}}]][[Uruk-hai|{{black|o}}]][[Mordor orc|{{blue|o}}]][[orc shaman|{{brightblue|o}}]][[hobgoblin|{{brown|o}}]][[goblin|{{lightgray|o}}]][[orc-captain|{{magenta|o}}]][[orc|{{red|o}}]][[hill orc|{{yellow|o}}]][[iron piercer|{{cyan|p}}]][[rock piercer|{{lightgray|p}}]][[glass piercer|{{white|p}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[mastodon|{{black|q}}]][[rothe|{{brown|q}}]][[wumpus|{{cyan|q}}]][[mumak|{{lightgray|q}}]][[titanothere|{{lightgray|q}}]][[baluchitherium|{{lightgray|q}}]][[leocrotta|{{red|q}}]][[sewer rat|{{brown|r}}]][[giant rat|{{brown|r}}]][[rabid rat|{{brown|r}}]][[wererat (rodent)|{{brown|r}}]][[woodchuck|{{brown|r}}]][[rock mole|{{lightgray|r}}]][[cave spider|{{lightgray|s}}]][[giant spider|{{magenta|s}}]][[Scorpius|{{magenta|s}}]][[scorpion|{{red|s}}]][[centipede|{{yellow|s}}]][[trapper|{{green|t}}]][[lurker above|{{lightgray|t}}]][[pony|{{brown|u}}]][[horse|{{brown|u}}]][[warhorse|{{brown|u}}]][[black unicorn|{{black|u}}]][[gray unicorn|{{lightgray|u}}]][[white unicorn|{{white|u}}]][[steam vortex|{{blue|v}}]][[energy vortex|{{brightblue|v}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[dust vortex|{{brown|v}}]][[ice vortex|{{cyan|v}}]][[fog cloud|{{lightgray|v}}]][[fire vortex|{{yellow|v}}]][[baby long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[baby purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[grid bug|{{magenta|x}}]][[xan|{{red|x}}]][[black light|{{black|y}}]][[yellow light|{{yellow|y}}]][[zruty|{{brown|z}}]][[couatl|{{green|A}}]][[Archon|{{magenta|A}}]][[Angel|{{white|A}}]][[Aleax|{{yellow|A}}]][[ki-rin|{{yellow|A}}]][[raven|{{black|B}}]][[vampire bat|{{black|B}}]][[bat|{{brown|B}}]][[giant bat|{{red|B}}]][[plains centaur|{{brown|C}}]][[mountain centaur|{{cyan|C}}]][[forest centaur|{{green|C}}]][[baby black dragon|{{black|D}}]][[black dragon|{{black|D}}]][[baby blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]][[baby silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[baby orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[baby shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[baby green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[baby gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[Chromatic Dragon|{{magenta|D}}]][[baby red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[Ixoth|{{red|D}}]][[baby white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[baby yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[water elemental|{{blue|E}}]][[earth elemental|{{brown|E}}]][[air elemental|{{cyan|E}}]][[stalker|{{white|E}}]][[fire elemental|{{yellow|E}}]][[lichen|{{brightgreen|F}}]][[brown mold|{{brown|F}}]][[green mold|{{green|F}}]][[shrieker|{{magenta|F}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[violet fungus|{{magenta|F}}]][[red mold|{{red|F}}]][[yellow mold|{{yellow|F}}]][[gnome lord|{{blue|G}}]][[gnomish wizard|{{brightblue|G}}]][[gnome|{{brown|G}}]][[gnome king|{{magenta|G}}]][[storm giant|{{blue|H}}]][[ettin|{{brown|H}}]][[minotaur|{{brown|H}}]][[hill giant|{{cyan|H}}]][[stone giant|{{lightgray|H}}]][[Cyclops|{{lightgray|H}}]][[titan|{{magenta|H}}]][[Lord Surtur|{{magenta|H}}]][[giant|{{red|H}}]][[frost giant|{{white|H}}]][[fire giant|{{yellow|H}}]][[jabberwock|{{brightred|J}}]][[vorpal jabberwock|{{magenta|J}}]][[Keystone Kop|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Sergeant|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Lieutenant|{{cyan|K}}]][[Kop Kaptain|{{magenta|K}}]][[lich|{{brown|L}}]][[master lich|{{magenta|L}}]][[arch-lich|{{magenta|L}}]][[demilich|{{red|L}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[ettin mummy|{{blue|M}}]][[kobold mummy|{{brown|M}}]][[giant mummy|{{cyan|M}}]][[elf mummy|{{green|M}}]][[orc mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[human mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[gnome mummy|{{red|M}}]][[dwarf mummy|{{red|M}}]][[black naga hatchling|{{black|N}}]][[black naga|{{black|N}}]][[guardian naga hatchling|{{green|N}}]][[guardian naga|{{green|N}}]][[red naga hatchling|{{red|N}}]][[red naga|{{red|N}}]][[golden naga hatchling|{{yellow|N}}]][[golden naga|{{yellow|N}}]][[ogre|{{brown|O}}]][[ogre king|{{magenta|O}}]][[ogre lord|{{red|O}}]][[black pudding|{{black|P}}]][[brown pudding|{{brown|P}}]][[green slime|{{green|P}}]][[gray ooze|{{lightgray|P}}]][[quantum mechanic|{{cyan|Q}}]][[disenchanter|{{blue|R}}]][[rust monster|{{brown|R}}]][[pit viper|{{blue|S}}]][[cobra|{{blue|S}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[snake|{{brown|S}}]][[garter snake|{{green|S}}]][[python|{{magenta|S}}]][[water moccasin|{{red|S}}]][[water troll|{{blue|T}}]][[troll|{{brown|T}}]][[rock troll|{{cyan|T}}]][[Olog-hai|{{magenta|T}}]][[ice troll|{{white|T}}]][[umber hulk|{{brown|U}}]][[vampire lord|{{blue|V}}]][[vampire mage|{{brightblue|V}}]][[Vlad the Impaler|{{magenta|V}}]][[vampire|{{red|V}}]][[wraith|{{black|W}}]][[barrow wight|{{lightgray|W}}]][[Nazgul|{{magenta|W}}]][[xorn|{{brown|X}}]][[carnivorous ape|{{black|Y}}]][[ape|{{brown|Y}}]][[owlbear|{{brown|Y}}]][[monkey|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[sasquatch|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[yeti|{{white|Y}}]][[ghoul|{{black|Z}}]][[ettin zombie|{{blue|Z}}]][[kobold zombie|{{brown|Z}}]][[gnome zombie|{{brown|Z}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[giant zombie|{{cyan|Z}}]][[elf zombie|{{green|Z}}]][[orc zombie|{{lightgray|Z}}]][[dwarf zombie|{{red|Z}}]][[human zombie|{{white|Z}}]][[skeleton|{{white|Z}}]][[water demon|{{blue|&amp;}}]][[mail daemon|{{brightblue|&amp;}}]][[Juiblex|{{brightgreen|&amp;}}]][[horned devil|{{brown|&amp;}}]][[succubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[incubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[bone devil|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[sandestin|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[Yeenoghu|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Orcus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Geryon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Dispater|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Baalzebub|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Asmodeus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Demogorgon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Death|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Pestilence|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Famine|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[erinys|{{red|&amp;}}]][[barbed devil|{{red|&amp;}}]][[marilith|{{red|&amp;}}]][[vrock|{{red|&amp;}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[hezrou|{{red|&amp;}}]][[nalfeshnee|{{red|&amp;}}]][[pit fiend|{{red|&amp;}}]][[balrog|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Minion of Huhetotl|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Nalzok|{{red|&amp;}}]][[ice devil|{{white|&amp;}}]][[djinni|{{yellow|&amp;}}]][[rope golem|{{brown|'}}]][[leather golem|{{brown|'}}]][[wood golem|{{brown|'}}]][[clay golem|{{brown|'}}]][[glass golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[iron golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[stone golem|{{lightgray|'}}]][[flesh golem|{{red|'}}]][[paper golem|{{white|'}}]][[straw golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[gold golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[salamander|{{brightred|:}}]][[iguana|{{brown|:}}]][[baby crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[chameleon|{{brown|:}}]][[crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[gecko|{{green|:}}]][[lizard|{{green|:}}]][[newt|{{yellow|:}}]][[jellyfish|{{blue|;}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[electric eel|{{brightblue|;}}]][[giant eel|{{cyan|;}}]][[shark|{{lightgray|;}}]][[piranha|{{red|;}}]][[kraken|{{red|;}}]][[Grand Master|{{black|@}}]][[Dark One|{{black|@}}]][[guard|{{blue|@}}]][[captain|{{blue|@}}]][[elf-lord|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Oracle|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Green-elf|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[Medusa|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[werewolf (human)|{{brightred|@}}]][[wererat (human)|{{brown|@}}]][[Woodland-elf|{{green|@}}]][[lieutenant|{{green|@}}]][[watch captain|{{green|@}}]][[Neferet the Green|{{green|@}}]][[Grey-elf|{{lightgray|@}}]][[soldier|{{lightgray|@}}]][[watchman|{{lightgray|@}}]][[Elvenking|{{magenta|@}}]][[Wizard of Yendor|{{magenta|@}}]][[Croesus|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Carnarvon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Pelias|{{magenta|@}}]][[Shaman Karnov|{{magenta|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[Earendil|{{magenta|@}}]][[Hippocrates|{{magenta|@}}]][[King Arthur|{{magenta|@}}]][[Orion|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master of Thieves|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Sato|{{magenta|@}}]][[Norn|{{magenta|@}}]][[Thoth Amon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Kaen|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Assassin|{{magenta|@}}]][[Ashikaga Takauji|{{magenta|@}}]][[werejackal (human)|{{red|@}}]][[sergeant|{{red|@}}]][[human|{{white|@}}]][[elf|{{white|@}}]][[doppelganger|{{white|@}}]][[nurse|{{white|@}}]][[shopkeeper|{{white|@}}]][[prisoner|{{white|@}}]][[aligned priest|{{white|@}}]][[high priest|{{white|@}}]][[Charon|{{white|@}}]][[archeologist|{{white|@}}]][[barbarian|{{white|@}}]][[caveman|{{white|@}}]][[cavewoman|{{white|@}}]][[healer|{{white|@}}]][[knight|{{white|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[monk|{{white|@}}]][[priest|{{white|@}}]][[priestess|{{white|@}}]][[ranger|{{white|@}}]][[rogue|{{white|@}}]][[samurai|{{white|@}}]][[tourist|{{white|@}}]][[valkyrie|{{white|@}}]][[wizard|{{white|@}}]][[Arch Priest|{{white|@}}]][[Twoflower|{{white|@}}]][[student|{{white|@}}]][[chieftain|{{white|@}}]][[neanderthal|{{white|@}}]][[High-elf|{{white|@}}]][[attendant|{{white|@}}]][[page|{{white|@}}]][[abbot|{{white|@}}]][[acolyte|{{white|@}}]][[hunter|{{white|@}}]][[thug|{{white|@}}]][[ninja|{{white|@}}]][[roshi|{{white|@}}]][[guide|{{white|@}}]][[warrior|{{white|@}}]][[apprentice|{{white|@}}]][[long worm tail|{{brown|~}}]][[strange object|{{black|]}}]]
|}
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>r8ch9qf07toroxlnx285x3lobgyarqd</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>19462</id>
      <parentid>19454</parentid>
      <timestamp>2007-03-05T04:06:24Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Creativename</username>
        <id>166</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Fix link.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="14087">&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:2px;"
|width="60%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; margin-right:2px; vertical-align: top;"|
{{Currentfeature}}
|width="40%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|style="width: 100%; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|colspan="3" style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestibles]]
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Level]]s
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%"
|width="33%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB;  padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|width="33%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
|width="33%" style="background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]] - [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|-
|colspan="4" width="100%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; text-align:center; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Monster]]s===
[[ghost|{{gray|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[shade|{{black|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[giant beetle|{{black|a}}]][[soldier ant|{{blue|a}}]][[giant ant|{{brown|a}}]][[queen bee|{{magenta|a}}]][[fire ant|{{red|a}}]][[killer bee|{{yellow|a}}]][[gelatinous cube|{{cyan|b}}]][[acid blob|{{green|b}}]][[quivering blob|{{white|b}}]][[chickatrice|{{brown|c}}]][[pyrolisk|{{red|c}}]][[cockatrice|{{yellow|c}}]][[jackal|{{brown|d}}]][[coyote|{{brown|d}}]][[werejackal (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[wolf|{{brown|d}}]][[werewolf (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[warg|{{brown|d}}]][[winter wolf cub|{{cyan|d}}]][[winter wolf|{{cyan|d}}]][[fox|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound pup|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound|{{red|d}}]][[Cerberus|{{red|d}}]][[little dog|{{white|d}}]][[dog|{{white|d}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[large dog|{{white|d}}]][[dingo|{{yellow|d}}]][[floating eye|{{blue|e}}]][[shocking sphere|{{brightblue|e}}]][[beholder|{{brown|e}}]][[gas spore|{{lightgray|e}}]][[flaming sphere|{{red|e}}]][[freezing sphere|{{white|e}}]][[panther|{{black|f}}]][[jaguar|{{brown|f}}]][[lynx|{{cyan|f}}]][[kitten|{{white|f}}]][[housecat|{{white|f}}]][[large cat|{{white|f}}]][[tiger|{{yellow|f}}]][[gargoyle|{{brown|g}}]][[gremlin|{{green|g}}]][[winged gargoyle|{{magenta|g}}]][[dwarf lord|{{blue|h}}]][[bugbear|{{brown|h}}]][[hobbit|{{green|h}}]][[dwarf king|{{magenta|h}}]][[mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[master mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[dwarf|{{red|h}}]][[quasit|{{blue|i}}]][[lemure|{{brown|i}}]][[tengu|{{cyan|i}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[homunculus|{{green|i}}]][[manes|{{red|i}}]][[imp|{{red|i}}]][[blue jelly|{{blue|j}}]][[ochre jelly|{{brown|j}}]][[spotted jelly|{{green|j}}]][[kobold shaman|{{brightblue|k}}]][[kobold|{{brown|k}}]][[kobold lord|{{magenta|k}}]][[large kobold|{{red|k}}]][[leprechaun|{{green|l}}]][[small mimic|{{brown|m}}]][[giant mimic|{{magenta|m}}]][[large mimic|{{red|m}}]][[water nymph|{{blue|n}}]][[mountain nymph|{{brown|n}}]][[wood nymph|{{green|n}}]][[Uruk-hai|{{black|o}}]][[Mordor orc|{{blue|o}}]][[orc shaman|{{brightblue|o}}]][[hobgoblin|{{brown|o}}]][[goblin|{{lightgray|o}}]][[orc-captain|{{magenta|o}}]][[orc|{{red|o}}]][[hill orc|{{yellow|o}}]][[iron piercer|{{cyan|p}}]][[rock piercer|{{lightgray|p}}]][[glass piercer|{{white|p}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[mastodon|{{black|q}}]][[rothe|{{brown|q}}]][[wumpus|{{cyan|q}}]][[mumak|{{lightgray|q}}]][[titanothere|{{lightgray|q}}]][[baluchitherium|{{lightgray|q}}]][[leocrotta|{{red|q}}]][[sewer rat|{{brown|r}}]][[giant rat|{{brown|r}}]][[rabid rat|{{brown|r}}]][[wererat (rodent)|{{brown|r}}]][[woodchuck|{{brown|r}}]][[rock mole|{{lightgray|r}}]][[cave spider|{{lightgray|s}}]][[giant spider|{{magenta|s}}]][[Scorpius|{{magenta|s}}]][[scorpion|{{red|s}}]][[centipede|{{yellow|s}}]][[trapper|{{green|t}}]][[lurker above|{{lightgray|t}}]][[pony|{{brown|u}}]][[horse|{{brown|u}}]][[warhorse|{{brown|u}}]][[black unicorn|{{black|u}}]][[gray unicorn|{{lightgray|u}}]][[white unicorn|{{white|u}}]][[steam vortex|{{blue|v}}]][[energy vortex|{{brightblue|v}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[dust vortex|{{brown|v}}]][[ice vortex|{{cyan|v}}]][[fog cloud|{{lightgray|v}}]][[fire vortex|{{yellow|v}}]][[baby long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[baby purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[grid bug|{{magenta|x}}]][[xan|{{red|x}}]][[black light|{{black|y}}]][[yellow light|{{yellow|y}}]][[zruty|{{brown|z}}]][[couatl|{{green|A}}]][[Archon|{{magenta|A}}]][[Angel|{{white|A}}]][[Aleax|{{yellow|A}}]][[ki-rin|{{yellow|A}}]][[raven|{{black|B}}]][[vampire bat|{{black|B}}]][[bat|{{brown|B}}]][[giant bat|{{red|B}}]][[plains centaur|{{brown|C}}]][[mountain centaur|{{cyan|C}}]][[forest centaur|{{green|C}}]][[baby black dragon|{{black|D}}]][[black dragon|{{black|D}}]][[baby blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]][[baby silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[baby orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[baby shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[baby green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[baby gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[Chromatic Dragon|{{magenta|D}}]][[baby red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[Ixoth|{{red|D}}]][[baby white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[baby yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[water elemental|{{blue|E}}]][[earth elemental|{{brown|E}}]][[air elemental|{{cyan|E}}]][[stalker|{{white|E}}]][[fire elemental|{{yellow|E}}]][[lichen|{{brightgreen|F}}]][[brown mold|{{brown|F}}]][[green mold|{{green|F}}]][[shrieker|{{magenta|F}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[violet fungus|{{magenta|F}}]][[red mold|{{red|F}}]][[yellow mold|{{yellow|F}}]][[gnome lord|{{blue|G}}]][[gnomish wizard|{{brightblue|G}}]][[gnome|{{brown|G}}]][[gnome king|{{magenta|G}}]][[storm giant|{{blue|H}}]][[ettin|{{brown|H}}]][[minotaur|{{brown|H}}]][[hill giant|{{cyan|H}}]][[stone giant|{{lightgray|H}}]][[Cyclops|{{lightgray|H}}]][[titan|{{magenta|H}}]][[Lord Surtur|{{magenta|H}}]][[giant|{{red|H}}]][[frost giant|{{white|H}}]][[fire giant|{{yellow|H}}]][[jabberwock|{{brightred|J}}]][[vorpal jabberwock|{{magenta|J}}]][[Keystone Kop|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Sergeant|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Lieutenant|{{cyan|K}}]][[Kop Kaptain|{{magenta|K}}]][[lich|{{brown|L}}]][[master lich|{{magenta|L}}]][[arch-lich|{{magenta|L}}]][[demilich|{{red|L}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[ettin mummy|{{blue|M}}]][[kobold mummy|{{brown|M}}]][[giant mummy|{{cyan|M}}]][[elf mummy|{{green|M}}]][[orc mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[human mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[gnome mummy|{{red|M}}]][[dwarf mummy|{{red|M}}]][[black naga hatchling|{{black|N}}]][[black naga|{{black|N}}]][[guardian naga hatchling|{{green|N}}]][[guardian naga|{{green|N}}]][[red naga hatchling|{{red|N}}]][[red naga|{{red|N}}]][[golden naga hatchling|{{yellow|N}}]][[golden naga|{{yellow|N}}]][[ogre|{{brown|O}}]][[ogre king|{{magenta|O}}]][[ogre lord|{{red|O}}]][[black pudding|{{black|P}}]][[brown pudding|{{brown|P}}]][[green slime|{{green|P}}]][[gray ooze|{{lightgray|P}}]][[quantum mechanic|{{cyan|Q}}]][[disenchanter|{{blue|R}}]][[rust monster|{{brown|R}}]][[pit viper|{{blue|S}}]][[cobra|{{blue|S}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[snake|{{brown|S}}]][[garter snake|{{green|S}}]][[python|{{magenta|S}}]][[water moccasin|{{red|S}}]][[water troll|{{blue|T}}]][[troll|{{brown|T}}]][[rock troll|{{cyan|T}}]][[Olog-hai|{{magenta|T}}]][[ice troll|{{white|T}}]][[umber hulk|{{brown|U}}]][[vampire lord|{{blue|V}}]][[vampire mage|{{brightblue|V}}]][[Vlad the Impaler|{{magenta|V}}]][[vampire|{{red|V}}]][[wraith|{{black|W}}]][[barrow wight|{{lightgray|W}}]][[Nazgul|{{magenta|W}}]][[xorn|{{brown|X}}]][[carnivorous ape|{{black|Y}}]][[ape|{{brown|Y}}]][[owlbear|{{brown|Y}}]][[monkey|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[sasquatch|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[yeti|{{white|Y}}]][[ghoul|{{black|Z}}]][[ettin zombie|{{blue|Z}}]][[kobold zombie|{{brown|Z}}]][[gnome zombie|{{brown|Z}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[giant zombie|{{cyan|Z}}]][[elf zombie|{{green|Z}}]][[orc zombie|{{lightgray|Z}}]][[dwarf zombie|{{red|Z}}]][[human zombie|{{white|Z}}]][[skeleton|{{white|Z}}]][[water demon|{{blue|&amp;}}]][[mail daemon|{{brightblue|&amp;}}]][[Juiblex|{{brightgreen|&amp;}}]][[horned devil|{{brown|&amp;}}]][[succubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[incubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[bone devil|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[sandestin|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[Yeenoghu|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Orcus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Geryon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Dispater|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Baalzebub|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Asmodeus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Demogorgon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Death|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Pestilence|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Famine|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[erinys|{{red|&amp;}}]][[barbed devil|{{red|&amp;}}]][[marilith|{{red|&amp;}}]][[vrock|{{red|&amp;}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[hezrou|{{red|&amp;}}]][[nalfeshnee|{{red|&amp;}}]][[pit fiend|{{red|&amp;}}]][[balrog|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Minion of Huhetotl|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Nalzok|{{red|&amp;}}]][[ice devil|{{white|&amp;}}]][[djinni|{{yellow|&amp;}}]][[rope golem|{{brown|'}}]][[leather golem|{{brown|'}}]][[wood golem|{{brown|'}}]][[clay golem|{{brown|'}}]][[glass golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[iron golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[stone golem|{{lightgray|'}}]][[flesh golem|{{red|'}}]][[paper golem|{{white|'}}]][[straw golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[gold golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[salamander|{{brightred|:}}]][[iguana|{{brown|:}}]][[baby crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[chameleon|{{brown|:}}]][[crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[gecko|{{green|:}}]][[lizard|{{green|:}}]][[newt|{{yellow|:}}]][[jellyfish|{{blue|;}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[electric eel|{{brightblue|;}}]][[giant eel|{{cyan|;}}]][[shark|{{lightgray|;}}]][[piranha|{{red|;}}]][[kraken|{{red|;}}]][[Grand Master|{{black|@}}]][[Dark One|{{black|@}}]][[guard|{{blue|@}}]][[captain|{{blue|@}}]][[elf-lord|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Oracle|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Green-elf|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[Medusa|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[werewolf (human)|{{brightred|@}}]][[wererat (human)|{{brown|@}}]][[Woodland-elf|{{green|@}}]][[lieutenant|{{green|@}}]][[watch captain|{{green|@}}]][[Neferet the Green|{{green|@}}]][[Grey-elf|{{lightgray|@}}]][[soldier|{{lightgray|@}}]][[watchman|{{lightgray|@}}]][[Elvenking|{{magenta|@}}]][[Wizard of Yendor|{{magenta|@}}]][[Croesus|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Carnarvon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Pelias|{{magenta|@}}]][[Shaman Karnov|{{magenta|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[Earendil|{{magenta|@}}]][[Hippocrates|{{magenta|@}}]][[King Arthur|{{magenta|@}}]][[Orion|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master of Thieves|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Sato|{{magenta|@}}]][[Norn|{{magenta|@}}]][[Thoth Amon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Kaen|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Assassin|{{magenta|@}}]][[Ashikaga Takauji|{{magenta|@}}]][[werejackal (human)|{{red|@}}]][[sergeant|{{red|@}}]][[human|{{white|@}}]][[elf|{{white|@}}]][[doppelganger|{{white|@}}]][[nurse|{{white|@}}]][[shopkeeper|{{white|@}}]][[prisoner|{{white|@}}]][[aligned priest|{{white|@}}]][[high priest|{{white|@}}]][[Charon|{{white|@}}]][[archeologist|{{white|@}}]][[barbarian|{{white|@}}]][[caveman|{{white|@}}]][[cavewoman|{{white|@}}]][[healer|{{white|@}}]][[knight|{{white|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[monk|{{white|@}}]][[priest|{{white|@}}]][[priestess|{{white|@}}]][[ranger|{{white|@}}]][[rogue|{{white|@}}]][[samurai|{{white|@}}]][[tourist|{{white|@}}]][[valkyrie|{{white|@}}]][[wizard|{{white|@}}]][[Arch Priest|{{white|@}}]][[Twoflower|{{white|@}}]][[student|{{white|@}}]][[chieftain|{{white|@}}]][[neanderthal|{{white|@}}]][[High-elf|{{white|@}}]][[attendant|{{white|@}}]][[page|{{white|@}}]][[abbot|{{white|@}}]][[acolyte|{{white|@}}]][[hunter|{{white|@}}]][[thug|{{white|@}}]][[ninja|{{white|@}}]][[roshi|{{white|@}}]][[guide|{{white|@}}]][[warrior|{{white|@}}]][[apprentice|{{white|@}}]][[long worm tail|{{brown|~}}]][[strange object|{{black|]}}]]
|}
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>l72lh26uqwwpwy23syutxr6bb5is4dk</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>20529</id>
      <parentid>19462</parentid>
      <timestamp>2007-04-19T09:22:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>DrAlgorythm</username>
        <id>218</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Changed "Levels" (a disambiguation page) link to "Mazes of Menace" (which should be linked to on the main page methinks)</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="14096">&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:2px;"
|width="60%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; margin-right:2px; vertical-align: top;"|
{{Currentfeature}}
|width="40%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|style="width: 100%; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|colspan="3" style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestibles]]
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%"
|width="33%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB;  padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|width="33%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
|width="33%" style="background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]] - [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|-
|colspan="4" width="100%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; text-align:center; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Monster]]s===
[[ghost|{{gray|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[shade|{{black|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[giant beetle|{{black|a}}]][[soldier ant|{{blue|a}}]][[giant ant|{{brown|a}}]][[queen bee|{{magenta|a}}]][[fire ant|{{red|a}}]][[killer bee|{{yellow|a}}]][[gelatinous cube|{{cyan|b}}]][[acid blob|{{green|b}}]][[quivering blob|{{white|b}}]][[chickatrice|{{brown|c}}]][[pyrolisk|{{red|c}}]][[cockatrice|{{yellow|c}}]][[jackal|{{brown|d}}]][[coyote|{{brown|d}}]][[werejackal (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[wolf|{{brown|d}}]][[werewolf (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[warg|{{brown|d}}]][[winter wolf cub|{{cyan|d}}]][[winter wolf|{{cyan|d}}]][[fox|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound pup|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound|{{red|d}}]][[Cerberus|{{red|d}}]][[little dog|{{white|d}}]][[dog|{{white|d}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[large dog|{{white|d}}]][[dingo|{{yellow|d}}]][[floating eye|{{blue|e}}]][[shocking sphere|{{brightblue|e}}]][[beholder|{{brown|e}}]][[gas spore|{{lightgray|e}}]][[flaming sphere|{{red|e}}]][[freezing sphere|{{white|e}}]][[panther|{{black|f}}]][[jaguar|{{brown|f}}]][[lynx|{{cyan|f}}]][[kitten|{{white|f}}]][[housecat|{{white|f}}]][[large cat|{{white|f}}]][[tiger|{{yellow|f}}]][[gargoyle|{{brown|g}}]][[gremlin|{{green|g}}]][[winged gargoyle|{{magenta|g}}]][[dwarf lord|{{blue|h}}]][[bugbear|{{brown|h}}]][[hobbit|{{green|h}}]][[dwarf king|{{magenta|h}}]][[mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[master mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[dwarf|{{red|h}}]][[quasit|{{blue|i}}]][[lemure|{{brown|i}}]][[tengu|{{cyan|i}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[homunculus|{{green|i}}]][[manes|{{red|i}}]][[imp|{{red|i}}]][[blue jelly|{{blue|j}}]][[ochre jelly|{{brown|j}}]][[spotted jelly|{{green|j}}]][[kobold shaman|{{brightblue|k}}]][[kobold|{{brown|k}}]][[kobold lord|{{magenta|k}}]][[large kobold|{{red|k}}]][[leprechaun|{{green|l}}]][[small mimic|{{brown|m}}]][[giant mimic|{{magenta|m}}]][[large mimic|{{red|m}}]][[water nymph|{{blue|n}}]][[mountain nymph|{{brown|n}}]][[wood nymph|{{green|n}}]][[Uruk-hai|{{black|o}}]][[Mordor orc|{{blue|o}}]][[orc shaman|{{brightblue|o}}]][[hobgoblin|{{brown|o}}]][[goblin|{{lightgray|o}}]][[orc-captain|{{magenta|o}}]][[orc|{{red|o}}]][[hill orc|{{yellow|o}}]][[iron piercer|{{cyan|p}}]][[rock piercer|{{lightgray|p}}]][[glass piercer|{{white|p}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[mastodon|{{black|q}}]][[rothe|{{brown|q}}]][[wumpus|{{cyan|q}}]][[mumak|{{lightgray|q}}]][[titanothere|{{lightgray|q}}]][[baluchitherium|{{lightgray|q}}]][[leocrotta|{{red|q}}]][[sewer rat|{{brown|r}}]][[giant rat|{{brown|r}}]][[rabid rat|{{brown|r}}]][[wererat (rodent)|{{brown|r}}]][[woodchuck|{{brown|r}}]][[rock mole|{{lightgray|r}}]][[cave spider|{{lightgray|s}}]][[giant spider|{{magenta|s}}]][[Scorpius|{{magenta|s}}]][[scorpion|{{red|s}}]][[centipede|{{yellow|s}}]][[trapper|{{green|t}}]][[lurker above|{{lightgray|t}}]][[pony|{{brown|u}}]][[horse|{{brown|u}}]][[warhorse|{{brown|u}}]][[black unicorn|{{black|u}}]][[gray unicorn|{{lightgray|u}}]][[white unicorn|{{white|u}}]][[steam vortex|{{blue|v}}]][[energy vortex|{{brightblue|v}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[dust vortex|{{brown|v}}]][[ice vortex|{{cyan|v}}]][[fog cloud|{{lightgray|v}}]][[fire vortex|{{yellow|v}}]][[baby long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[baby purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[grid bug|{{magenta|x}}]][[xan|{{red|x}}]][[black light|{{black|y}}]][[yellow light|{{yellow|y}}]][[zruty|{{brown|z}}]][[couatl|{{green|A}}]][[Archon|{{magenta|A}}]][[Angel|{{white|A}}]][[Aleax|{{yellow|A}}]][[ki-rin|{{yellow|A}}]][[raven|{{black|B}}]][[vampire bat|{{black|B}}]][[bat|{{brown|B}}]][[giant bat|{{red|B}}]][[plains centaur|{{brown|C}}]][[mountain centaur|{{cyan|C}}]][[forest centaur|{{green|C}}]][[baby black dragon|{{black|D}}]][[black dragon|{{black|D}}]][[baby blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]][[baby silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[baby orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[baby shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[baby green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[baby gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[Chromatic Dragon|{{magenta|D}}]][[baby red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[Ixoth|{{red|D}}]][[baby white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[baby yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[water elemental|{{blue|E}}]][[earth elemental|{{brown|E}}]][[air elemental|{{cyan|E}}]][[stalker|{{white|E}}]][[fire elemental|{{yellow|E}}]][[lichen|{{brightgreen|F}}]][[brown mold|{{brown|F}}]][[green mold|{{green|F}}]][[shrieker|{{magenta|F}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[violet fungus|{{magenta|F}}]][[red mold|{{red|F}}]][[yellow mold|{{yellow|F}}]][[gnome lord|{{blue|G}}]][[gnomish wizard|{{brightblue|G}}]][[gnome|{{brown|G}}]][[gnome king|{{magenta|G}}]][[storm giant|{{blue|H}}]][[ettin|{{brown|H}}]][[minotaur|{{brown|H}}]][[hill giant|{{cyan|H}}]][[stone giant|{{lightgray|H}}]][[Cyclops|{{lightgray|H}}]][[titan|{{magenta|H}}]][[Lord Surtur|{{magenta|H}}]][[giant|{{red|H}}]][[frost giant|{{white|H}}]][[fire giant|{{yellow|H}}]][[jabberwock|{{brightred|J}}]][[vorpal jabberwock|{{magenta|J}}]][[Keystone Kop|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Sergeant|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Lieutenant|{{cyan|K}}]][[Kop Kaptain|{{magenta|K}}]][[lich|{{brown|L}}]][[master lich|{{magenta|L}}]][[arch-lich|{{magenta|L}}]][[demilich|{{red|L}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[ettin mummy|{{blue|M}}]][[kobold mummy|{{brown|M}}]][[giant mummy|{{cyan|M}}]][[elf mummy|{{green|M}}]][[orc mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[human mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[gnome mummy|{{red|M}}]][[dwarf mummy|{{red|M}}]][[black naga hatchling|{{black|N}}]][[black naga|{{black|N}}]][[guardian naga hatchling|{{green|N}}]][[guardian naga|{{green|N}}]][[red naga hatchling|{{red|N}}]][[red naga|{{red|N}}]][[golden naga hatchling|{{yellow|N}}]][[golden naga|{{yellow|N}}]][[ogre|{{brown|O}}]][[ogre king|{{magenta|O}}]][[ogre lord|{{red|O}}]][[black pudding|{{black|P}}]][[brown pudding|{{brown|P}}]][[green slime|{{green|P}}]][[gray ooze|{{lightgray|P}}]][[quantum mechanic|{{cyan|Q}}]][[disenchanter|{{blue|R}}]][[rust monster|{{brown|R}}]][[pit viper|{{blue|S}}]][[cobra|{{blue|S}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[snake|{{brown|S}}]][[garter snake|{{green|S}}]][[python|{{magenta|S}}]][[water moccasin|{{red|S}}]][[water troll|{{blue|T}}]][[troll|{{brown|T}}]][[rock troll|{{cyan|T}}]][[Olog-hai|{{magenta|T}}]][[ice troll|{{white|T}}]][[umber hulk|{{brown|U}}]][[vampire lord|{{blue|V}}]][[vampire mage|{{brightblue|V}}]][[Vlad the Impaler|{{magenta|V}}]][[vampire|{{red|V}}]][[wraith|{{black|W}}]][[barrow wight|{{lightgray|W}}]][[Nazgul|{{magenta|W}}]][[xorn|{{brown|X}}]][[carnivorous ape|{{black|Y}}]][[ape|{{brown|Y}}]][[owlbear|{{brown|Y}}]][[monkey|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[sasquatch|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[yeti|{{white|Y}}]][[ghoul|{{black|Z}}]][[ettin zombie|{{blue|Z}}]][[kobold zombie|{{brown|Z}}]][[gnome zombie|{{brown|Z}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[giant zombie|{{cyan|Z}}]][[elf zombie|{{green|Z}}]][[orc zombie|{{lightgray|Z}}]][[dwarf zombie|{{red|Z}}]][[human zombie|{{white|Z}}]][[skeleton|{{white|Z}}]][[water demon|{{blue|&amp;}}]][[mail daemon|{{brightblue|&amp;}}]][[Juiblex|{{brightgreen|&amp;}}]][[horned devil|{{brown|&amp;}}]][[succubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[incubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[bone devil|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[sandestin|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[Yeenoghu|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Orcus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Geryon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Dispater|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Baalzebub|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Asmodeus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Demogorgon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Death|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Pestilence|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Famine|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[erinys|{{red|&amp;}}]][[barbed devil|{{red|&amp;}}]][[marilith|{{red|&amp;}}]][[vrock|{{red|&amp;}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[hezrou|{{red|&amp;}}]][[nalfeshnee|{{red|&amp;}}]][[pit fiend|{{red|&amp;}}]][[balrog|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Minion of Huhetotl|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Nalzok|{{red|&amp;}}]][[ice devil|{{white|&amp;}}]][[djinni|{{yellow|&amp;}}]][[rope golem|{{brown|'}}]][[leather golem|{{brown|'}}]][[wood golem|{{brown|'}}]][[clay golem|{{brown|'}}]][[glass golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[iron golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[stone golem|{{lightgray|'}}]][[flesh golem|{{red|'}}]][[paper golem|{{white|'}}]][[straw golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[gold golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[salamander|{{brightred|:}}]][[iguana|{{brown|:}}]][[baby crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[chameleon|{{brown|:}}]][[crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[gecko|{{green|:}}]][[lizard|{{green|:}}]][[newt|{{yellow|:}}]][[jellyfish|{{blue|;}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[electric eel|{{brightblue|;}}]][[giant eel|{{cyan|;}}]][[shark|{{lightgray|;}}]][[piranha|{{red|;}}]][[kraken|{{red|;}}]][[Grand Master|{{black|@}}]][[Dark One|{{black|@}}]][[guard|{{blue|@}}]][[captain|{{blue|@}}]][[elf-lord|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Oracle|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Green-elf|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[Medusa|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[werewolf (human)|{{brightred|@}}]][[wererat (human)|{{brown|@}}]][[Woodland-elf|{{green|@}}]][[lieutenant|{{green|@}}]][[watch captain|{{green|@}}]][[Neferet the Green|{{green|@}}]][[Grey-elf|{{lightgray|@}}]][[soldier|{{lightgray|@}}]][[watchman|{{lightgray|@}}]][[Elvenking|{{magenta|@}}]][[Wizard of Yendor|{{magenta|@}}]][[Croesus|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Carnarvon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Pelias|{{magenta|@}}]][[Shaman Karnov|{{magenta|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[Earendil|{{magenta|@}}]][[Hippocrates|{{magenta|@}}]][[King Arthur|{{magenta|@}}]][[Orion|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master of Thieves|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Sato|{{magenta|@}}]][[Norn|{{magenta|@}}]][[Thoth Amon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Kaen|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Assassin|{{magenta|@}}]][[Ashikaga Takauji|{{magenta|@}}]][[werejackal (human)|{{red|@}}]][[sergeant|{{red|@}}]][[human|{{white|@}}]][[elf|{{white|@}}]][[doppelganger|{{white|@}}]][[nurse|{{white|@}}]][[shopkeeper|{{white|@}}]][[prisoner|{{white|@}}]][[aligned priest|{{white|@}}]][[high priest|{{white|@}}]][[Charon|{{white|@}}]][[archeologist|{{white|@}}]][[barbarian|{{white|@}}]][[caveman|{{white|@}}]][[cavewoman|{{white|@}}]][[healer|{{white|@}}]][[knight|{{white|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[monk|{{white|@}}]][[priest|{{white|@}}]][[priestess|{{white|@}}]][[ranger|{{white|@}}]][[rogue|{{white|@}}]][[samurai|{{white|@}}]][[tourist|{{white|@}}]][[valkyrie|{{white|@}}]][[wizard|{{white|@}}]][[Arch Priest|{{white|@}}]][[Twoflower|{{white|@}}]][[student|{{white|@}}]][[chieftain|{{white|@}}]][[neanderthal|{{white|@}}]][[High-elf|{{white|@}}]][[attendant|{{white|@}}]][[page|{{white|@}}]][[abbot|{{white|@}}]][[acolyte|{{white|@}}]][[hunter|{{white|@}}]][[thug|{{white|@}}]][[ninja|{{white|@}}]][[roshi|{{white|@}}]][[guide|{{white|@}}]][[warrior|{{white|@}}]][[apprentice|{{white|@}}]][[long worm tail|{{brown|~}}]][[strange object|{{black|]}}]]
|}
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>sjbnyqcccdb73gy2rtgjcahjs5ixlxu</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>20673</id>
      <parentid>20529</parentid>
      <timestamp>2007-04-28T13:45:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ekaterin</username>
        <id>241</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Added meets (real-life NetHack meets)</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="14107">&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:2px;"
|width="60%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; margin-right:2px; vertical-align: top;"|
{{Currentfeature}}
|width="40%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|style="width: 100%; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|colspan="3" style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestibles]]
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%"
|width="33%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB;  padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|width="33%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|width="33%" style="background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]] - [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|-
|colspan="4" width="100%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; text-align:center; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Monster]]s===
[[ghost|{{gray|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[shade|{{black|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[giant beetle|{{black|a}}]][[soldier ant|{{blue|a}}]][[giant ant|{{brown|a}}]][[queen bee|{{magenta|a}}]][[fire ant|{{red|a}}]][[killer bee|{{yellow|a}}]][[gelatinous cube|{{cyan|b}}]][[acid blob|{{green|b}}]][[quivering blob|{{white|b}}]][[chickatrice|{{brown|c}}]][[pyrolisk|{{red|c}}]][[cockatrice|{{yellow|c}}]][[jackal|{{brown|d}}]][[coyote|{{brown|d}}]][[werejackal (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[wolf|{{brown|d}}]][[werewolf (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[warg|{{brown|d}}]][[winter wolf cub|{{cyan|d}}]][[winter wolf|{{cyan|d}}]][[fox|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound pup|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound|{{red|d}}]][[Cerberus|{{red|d}}]][[little dog|{{white|d}}]][[dog|{{white|d}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[large dog|{{white|d}}]][[dingo|{{yellow|d}}]][[floating eye|{{blue|e}}]][[shocking sphere|{{brightblue|e}}]][[beholder|{{brown|e}}]][[gas spore|{{lightgray|e}}]][[flaming sphere|{{red|e}}]][[freezing sphere|{{white|e}}]][[panther|{{black|f}}]][[jaguar|{{brown|f}}]][[lynx|{{cyan|f}}]][[kitten|{{white|f}}]][[housecat|{{white|f}}]][[large cat|{{white|f}}]][[tiger|{{yellow|f}}]][[gargoyle|{{brown|g}}]][[gremlin|{{green|g}}]][[winged gargoyle|{{magenta|g}}]][[dwarf lord|{{blue|h}}]][[bugbear|{{brown|h}}]][[hobbit|{{green|h}}]][[dwarf king|{{magenta|h}}]][[mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[master mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[dwarf|{{red|h}}]][[quasit|{{blue|i}}]][[lemure|{{brown|i}}]][[tengu|{{cyan|i}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[homunculus|{{green|i}}]][[manes|{{red|i}}]][[imp|{{red|i}}]][[blue jelly|{{blue|j}}]][[ochre jelly|{{brown|j}}]][[spotted jelly|{{green|j}}]][[kobold shaman|{{brightblue|k}}]][[kobold|{{brown|k}}]][[kobold lord|{{magenta|k}}]][[large kobold|{{red|k}}]][[leprechaun|{{green|l}}]][[small mimic|{{brown|m}}]][[giant mimic|{{magenta|m}}]][[large mimic|{{red|m}}]][[water nymph|{{blue|n}}]][[mountain nymph|{{brown|n}}]][[wood nymph|{{green|n}}]][[Uruk-hai|{{black|o}}]][[Mordor orc|{{blue|o}}]][[orc shaman|{{brightblue|o}}]][[hobgoblin|{{brown|o}}]][[goblin|{{lightgray|o}}]][[orc-captain|{{magenta|o}}]][[orc|{{red|o}}]][[hill orc|{{yellow|o}}]][[iron piercer|{{cyan|p}}]][[rock piercer|{{lightgray|p}}]][[glass piercer|{{white|p}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[mastodon|{{black|q}}]][[rothe|{{brown|q}}]][[wumpus|{{cyan|q}}]][[mumak|{{lightgray|q}}]][[titanothere|{{lightgray|q}}]][[baluchitherium|{{lightgray|q}}]][[leocrotta|{{red|q}}]][[sewer rat|{{brown|r}}]][[giant rat|{{brown|r}}]][[rabid rat|{{brown|r}}]][[wererat (rodent)|{{brown|r}}]][[woodchuck|{{brown|r}}]][[rock mole|{{lightgray|r}}]][[cave spider|{{lightgray|s}}]][[giant spider|{{magenta|s}}]][[Scorpius|{{magenta|s}}]][[scorpion|{{red|s}}]][[centipede|{{yellow|s}}]][[trapper|{{green|t}}]][[lurker above|{{lightgray|t}}]][[pony|{{brown|u}}]][[horse|{{brown|u}}]][[warhorse|{{brown|u}}]][[black unicorn|{{black|u}}]][[gray unicorn|{{lightgray|u}}]][[white unicorn|{{white|u}}]][[steam vortex|{{blue|v}}]][[energy vortex|{{brightblue|v}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[dust vortex|{{brown|v}}]][[ice vortex|{{cyan|v}}]][[fog cloud|{{lightgray|v}}]][[fire vortex|{{yellow|v}}]][[baby long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[baby purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[grid bug|{{magenta|x}}]][[xan|{{red|x}}]][[black light|{{black|y}}]][[yellow light|{{yellow|y}}]][[zruty|{{brown|z}}]][[couatl|{{green|A}}]][[Archon|{{magenta|A}}]][[Angel|{{white|A}}]][[Aleax|{{yellow|A}}]][[ki-rin|{{yellow|A}}]][[raven|{{black|B}}]][[vampire bat|{{black|B}}]][[bat|{{brown|B}}]][[giant bat|{{red|B}}]][[plains centaur|{{brown|C}}]][[mountain centaur|{{cyan|C}}]][[forest centaur|{{green|C}}]][[baby black dragon|{{black|D}}]][[black dragon|{{black|D}}]][[baby blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]][[baby silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[baby orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[baby shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[baby green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[baby gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[Chromatic Dragon|{{magenta|D}}]][[baby red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[Ixoth|{{red|D}}]][[baby white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[baby yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[water elemental|{{blue|E}}]][[earth elemental|{{brown|E}}]][[air elemental|{{cyan|E}}]][[stalker|{{white|E}}]][[fire elemental|{{yellow|E}}]][[lichen|{{brightgreen|F}}]][[brown mold|{{brown|F}}]][[green mold|{{green|F}}]][[shrieker|{{magenta|F}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[violet fungus|{{magenta|F}}]][[red mold|{{red|F}}]][[yellow mold|{{yellow|F}}]][[gnome lord|{{blue|G}}]][[gnomish wizard|{{brightblue|G}}]][[gnome|{{brown|G}}]][[gnome king|{{magenta|G}}]][[storm giant|{{blue|H}}]][[ettin|{{brown|H}}]][[minotaur|{{brown|H}}]][[hill giant|{{cyan|H}}]][[stone giant|{{lightgray|H}}]][[Cyclops|{{lightgray|H}}]][[titan|{{magenta|H}}]][[Lord Surtur|{{magenta|H}}]][[giant|{{red|H}}]][[frost giant|{{white|H}}]][[fire giant|{{yellow|H}}]][[jabberwock|{{brightred|J}}]][[vorpal jabberwock|{{magenta|J}}]][[Keystone Kop|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Sergeant|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Lieutenant|{{cyan|K}}]][[Kop Kaptain|{{magenta|K}}]][[lich|{{brown|L}}]][[master lich|{{magenta|L}}]][[arch-lich|{{magenta|L}}]][[demilich|{{red|L}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[ettin mummy|{{blue|M}}]][[kobold mummy|{{brown|M}}]][[giant mummy|{{cyan|M}}]][[elf mummy|{{green|M}}]][[orc mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[human mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[gnome mummy|{{red|M}}]][[dwarf mummy|{{red|M}}]][[black naga hatchling|{{black|N}}]][[black naga|{{black|N}}]][[guardian naga hatchling|{{green|N}}]][[guardian naga|{{green|N}}]][[red naga hatchling|{{red|N}}]][[red naga|{{red|N}}]][[golden naga hatchling|{{yellow|N}}]][[golden naga|{{yellow|N}}]][[ogre|{{brown|O}}]][[ogre king|{{magenta|O}}]][[ogre lord|{{red|O}}]][[black pudding|{{black|P}}]][[brown pudding|{{brown|P}}]][[green slime|{{green|P}}]][[gray ooze|{{lightgray|P}}]][[quantum mechanic|{{cyan|Q}}]][[disenchanter|{{blue|R}}]][[rust monster|{{brown|R}}]][[pit viper|{{blue|S}}]][[cobra|{{blue|S}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[snake|{{brown|S}}]][[garter snake|{{green|S}}]][[python|{{magenta|S}}]][[water moccasin|{{red|S}}]][[water troll|{{blue|T}}]][[troll|{{brown|T}}]][[rock troll|{{cyan|T}}]][[Olog-hai|{{magenta|T}}]][[ice troll|{{white|T}}]][[umber hulk|{{brown|U}}]][[vampire lord|{{blue|V}}]][[vampire mage|{{brightblue|V}}]][[Vlad the Impaler|{{magenta|V}}]][[vampire|{{red|V}}]][[wraith|{{black|W}}]][[barrow wight|{{lightgray|W}}]][[Nazgul|{{magenta|W}}]][[xorn|{{brown|X}}]][[carnivorous ape|{{black|Y}}]][[ape|{{brown|Y}}]][[owlbear|{{brown|Y}}]][[monkey|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[sasquatch|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[yeti|{{white|Y}}]][[ghoul|{{black|Z}}]][[ettin zombie|{{blue|Z}}]][[kobold zombie|{{brown|Z}}]][[gnome zombie|{{brown|Z}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[giant zombie|{{cyan|Z}}]][[elf zombie|{{green|Z}}]][[orc zombie|{{lightgray|Z}}]][[dwarf zombie|{{red|Z}}]][[human zombie|{{white|Z}}]][[skeleton|{{white|Z}}]][[water demon|{{blue|&amp;}}]][[mail daemon|{{brightblue|&amp;}}]][[Juiblex|{{brightgreen|&amp;}}]][[horned devil|{{brown|&amp;}}]][[succubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[incubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[bone devil|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[sandestin|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[Yeenoghu|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Orcus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Geryon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Dispater|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Baalzebub|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Asmodeus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Demogorgon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Death|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Pestilence|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Famine|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[erinys|{{red|&amp;}}]][[barbed devil|{{red|&amp;}}]][[marilith|{{red|&amp;}}]][[vrock|{{red|&amp;}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[hezrou|{{red|&amp;}}]][[nalfeshnee|{{red|&amp;}}]][[pit fiend|{{red|&amp;}}]][[balrog|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Minion of Huhetotl|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Nalzok|{{red|&amp;}}]][[ice devil|{{white|&amp;}}]][[djinni|{{yellow|&amp;}}]][[rope golem|{{brown|'}}]][[leather golem|{{brown|'}}]][[wood golem|{{brown|'}}]][[clay golem|{{brown|'}}]][[glass golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[iron golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[stone golem|{{lightgray|'}}]][[flesh golem|{{red|'}}]][[paper golem|{{white|'}}]][[straw golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[gold golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[salamander|{{brightred|:}}]][[iguana|{{brown|:}}]][[baby crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[chameleon|{{brown|:}}]][[crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[gecko|{{green|:}}]][[lizard|{{green|:}}]][[newt|{{yellow|:}}]][[jellyfish|{{blue|;}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[electric eel|{{brightblue|;}}]][[giant eel|{{cyan|;}}]][[shark|{{lightgray|;}}]][[piranha|{{red|;}}]][[kraken|{{red|;}}]][[Grand Master|{{black|@}}]][[Dark One|{{black|@}}]][[guard|{{blue|@}}]][[captain|{{blue|@}}]][[elf-lord|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Oracle|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Green-elf|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[Medusa|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[werewolf (human)|{{brightred|@}}]][[wererat (human)|{{brown|@}}]][[Woodland-elf|{{green|@}}]][[lieutenant|{{green|@}}]][[watch captain|{{green|@}}]][[Neferet the Green|{{green|@}}]][[Grey-elf|{{lightgray|@}}]][[soldier|{{lightgray|@}}]][[watchman|{{lightgray|@}}]][[Elvenking|{{magenta|@}}]][[Wizard of Yendor|{{magenta|@}}]][[Croesus|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Carnarvon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Pelias|{{magenta|@}}]][[Shaman Karnov|{{magenta|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[Earendil|{{magenta|@}}]][[Hippocrates|{{magenta|@}}]][[King Arthur|{{magenta|@}}]][[Orion|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master of Thieves|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Sato|{{magenta|@}}]][[Norn|{{magenta|@}}]][[Thoth Amon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Kaen|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Assassin|{{magenta|@}}]][[Ashikaga Takauji|{{magenta|@}}]][[werejackal (human)|{{red|@}}]][[sergeant|{{red|@}}]][[human|{{white|@}}]][[elf|{{white|@}}]][[doppelganger|{{white|@}}]][[nurse|{{white|@}}]][[shopkeeper|{{white|@}}]][[prisoner|{{white|@}}]][[aligned priest|{{white|@}}]][[high priest|{{white|@}}]][[Charon|{{white|@}}]][[archeologist|{{white|@}}]][[barbarian|{{white|@}}]][[caveman|{{white|@}}]][[cavewoman|{{white|@}}]][[healer|{{white|@}}]][[knight|{{white|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[monk|{{white|@}}]][[priest|{{white|@}}]][[priestess|{{white|@}}]][[ranger|{{white|@}}]][[rogue|{{white|@}}]][[samurai|{{white|@}}]][[tourist|{{white|@}}]][[valkyrie|{{white|@}}]][[wizard|{{white|@}}]][[Arch Priest|{{white|@}}]][[Twoflower|{{white|@}}]][[student|{{white|@}}]][[chieftain|{{white|@}}]][[neanderthal|{{white|@}}]][[High-elf|{{white|@}}]][[attendant|{{white|@}}]][[page|{{white|@}}]][[abbot|{{white|@}}]][[acolyte|{{white|@}}]][[hunter|{{white|@}}]][[thug|{{white|@}}]][[ninja|{{white|@}}]][[roshi|{{white|@}}]][[guide|{{white|@}}]][[warrior|{{white|@}}]][[apprentice|{{white|@}}]][[long worm tail|{{brown|~}}]][[strange object|{{black|]}}]]
|}
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>f3cdfr2vp7dbdudvfw5ln6o1rddakjj</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>21986</id>
      <parentid>20673</parentid>
      <timestamp>2007-08-15T16:43:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ray Chason</username>
        <id>679</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Link to newly enabled forums.  RGRN in exile is open for business.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="14132">&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:2px;"
|width="60%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; margin-right:2px; vertical-align: top;"|
{{Currentfeature}}
|width="40%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|style="width: 100%; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|colspan="3" style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestibles]]
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%"
|width="33%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB;  padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|width="33%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|width="33%" style="background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]] - [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|-
|colspan="4" width="100%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; text-align:center; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Monster]]s===
[[ghost|{{gray|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[shade|{{black|&amp;nbsp;}}]][[giant beetle|{{black|a}}]][[soldier ant|{{blue|a}}]][[giant ant|{{brown|a}}]][[queen bee|{{magenta|a}}]][[fire ant|{{red|a}}]][[killer bee|{{yellow|a}}]][[gelatinous cube|{{cyan|b}}]][[acid blob|{{green|b}}]][[quivering blob|{{white|b}}]][[chickatrice|{{brown|c}}]][[pyrolisk|{{red|c}}]][[cockatrice|{{yellow|c}}]][[jackal|{{brown|d}}]][[coyote|{{brown|d}}]][[werejackal (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[wolf|{{brown|d}}]][[werewolf (dog)|{{brown|d}}]][[warg|{{brown|d}}]][[winter wolf cub|{{cyan|d}}]][[winter wolf|{{cyan|d}}]][[fox|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound pup|{{red|d}}]][[hell hound|{{red|d}}]][[Cerberus|{{red|d}}]][[little dog|{{white|d}}]][[dog|{{white|d}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[large dog|{{white|d}}]][[dingo|{{yellow|d}}]][[floating eye|{{blue|e}}]][[shocking sphere|{{brightblue|e}}]][[beholder|{{brown|e}}]][[gas spore|{{lightgray|e}}]][[flaming sphere|{{red|e}}]][[freezing sphere|{{white|e}}]][[panther|{{black|f}}]][[jaguar|{{brown|f}}]][[lynx|{{cyan|f}}]][[kitten|{{white|f}}]][[housecat|{{white|f}}]][[large cat|{{white|f}}]][[tiger|{{yellow|f}}]][[gargoyle|{{brown|g}}]][[gremlin|{{green|g}}]][[winged gargoyle|{{magenta|g}}]][[dwarf lord|{{blue|h}}]][[bugbear|{{brown|h}}]][[hobbit|{{green|h}}]][[dwarf king|{{magenta|h}}]][[mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[master mind flayer|{{magenta|h}}]][[dwarf|{{red|h}}]][[quasit|{{blue|i}}]][[lemure|{{brown|i}}]][[tengu|{{cyan|i}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[homunculus|{{green|i}}]][[manes|{{red|i}}]][[imp|{{red|i}}]][[blue jelly|{{blue|j}}]][[ochre jelly|{{brown|j}}]][[spotted jelly|{{green|j}}]][[kobold shaman|{{brightblue|k}}]][[kobold|{{brown|k}}]][[kobold lord|{{magenta|k}}]][[large kobold|{{red|k}}]][[leprechaun|{{green|l}}]][[small mimic|{{brown|m}}]][[giant mimic|{{magenta|m}}]][[large mimic|{{red|m}}]][[water nymph|{{blue|n}}]][[mountain nymph|{{brown|n}}]][[wood nymph|{{green|n}}]][[Uruk-hai|{{black|o}}]][[Mordor orc|{{blue|o}}]][[orc shaman|{{brightblue|o}}]][[hobgoblin|{{brown|o}}]][[goblin|{{lightgray|o}}]][[orc-captain|{{magenta|o}}]][[orc|{{red|o}}]][[hill orc|{{yellow|o}}]][[iron piercer|{{cyan|p}}]][[rock piercer|{{lightgray|p}}]][[glass piercer|{{white|p}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[mastodon|{{black|q}}]][[rothe|{{brown|q}}]][[wumpus|{{cyan|q}}]][[mumak|{{lightgray|q}}]][[titanothere|{{lightgray|q}}]][[baluchitherium|{{lightgray|q}}]][[leocrotta|{{red|q}}]][[sewer rat|{{brown|r}}]][[giant rat|{{brown|r}}]][[rabid rat|{{brown|r}}]][[wererat (rodent)|{{brown|r}}]][[woodchuck|{{brown|r}}]][[rock mole|{{lightgray|r}}]][[cave spider|{{lightgray|s}}]][[giant spider|{{magenta|s}}]][[Scorpius|{{magenta|s}}]][[scorpion|{{red|s}}]][[centipede|{{yellow|s}}]][[trapper|{{green|t}}]][[lurker above|{{lightgray|t}}]][[pony|{{brown|u}}]][[horse|{{brown|u}}]][[warhorse|{{brown|u}}]][[black unicorn|{{black|u}}]][[gray unicorn|{{lightgray|u}}]][[white unicorn|{{white|u}}]][[steam vortex|{{blue|v}}]][[energy vortex|{{brightblue|v}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[dust vortex|{{brown|v}}]][[ice vortex|{{cyan|v}}]][[fog cloud|{{lightgray|v}}]][[fire vortex|{{yellow|v}}]][[baby long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[long worm|{{brown|w}}]][[baby purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[purple worm|{{magenta|w}}]][[grid bug|{{magenta|x}}]][[xan|{{red|x}}]][[black light|{{black|y}}]][[yellow light|{{yellow|y}}]][[zruty|{{brown|z}}]][[couatl|{{green|A}}]][[Archon|{{magenta|A}}]][[Angel|{{white|A}}]][[Aleax|{{yellow|A}}]][[ki-rin|{{yellow|A}}]][[raven|{{black|B}}]][[vampire bat|{{black|B}}]][[bat|{{brown|B}}]][[giant bat|{{red|B}}]][[plains centaur|{{brown|C}}]][[mountain centaur|{{cyan|C}}]][[forest centaur|{{green|C}}]][[baby black dragon|{{black|D}}]][[black dragon|{{black|D}}]][[baby blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[blue dragon|{{blue|D}}]][[baby silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[silver dragon|{{brightcyan|D}}]][[baby orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[orange dragon|{{brightred|D}}]][[baby shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[shimmering dragon|{{cyan|D}}]][[baby green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[green dragon|{{green|D}}]][[baby gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[gray dragon|{{lightgray|D}}]][[Chromatic Dragon|{{magenta|D}}]][[baby red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[red dragon|{{red|D}}]][[Ixoth|{{red|D}}]][[baby white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[white dragon|{{white|D}}]][[baby yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[yellow dragon|{{yellow|D}}]][[water elemental|{{blue|E}}]][[earth elemental|{{brown|E}}]][[air elemental|{{cyan|E}}]][[stalker|{{white|E}}]][[fire elemental|{{yellow|E}}]][[lichen|{{brightgreen|F}}]][[brown mold|{{brown|F}}]][[green mold|{{green|F}}]][[shrieker|{{magenta|F}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[violet fungus|{{magenta|F}}]][[red mold|{{red|F}}]][[yellow mold|{{yellow|F}}]][[gnome lord|{{blue|G}}]][[gnomish wizard|{{brightblue|G}}]][[gnome|{{brown|G}}]][[gnome king|{{magenta|G}}]][[storm giant|{{blue|H}}]][[ettin|{{brown|H}}]][[minotaur|{{brown|H}}]][[hill giant|{{cyan|H}}]][[stone giant|{{lightgray|H}}]][[Cyclops|{{lightgray|H}}]][[titan|{{magenta|H}}]][[Lord Surtur|{{magenta|H}}]][[giant|{{red|H}}]][[frost giant|{{white|H}}]][[fire giant|{{yellow|H}}]][[jabberwock|{{brightred|J}}]][[vorpal jabberwock|{{magenta|J}}]][[Keystone Kop|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Sergeant|{{blue|K}}]][[Kop Lieutenant|{{cyan|K}}]][[Kop Kaptain|{{magenta|K}}]][[lich|{{brown|L}}]][[master lich|{{magenta|L}}]][[arch-lich|{{magenta|L}}]][[demilich|{{red|L}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[ettin mummy|{{blue|M}}]][[kobold mummy|{{brown|M}}]][[giant mummy|{{cyan|M}}]][[elf mummy|{{green|M}}]][[orc mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[human mummy|{{lightgray|M}}]][[gnome mummy|{{red|M}}]][[dwarf mummy|{{red|M}}]][[black naga hatchling|{{black|N}}]][[black naga|{{black|N}}]][[guardian naga hatchling|{{green|N}}]][[guardian naga|{{green|N}}]][[red naga hatchling|{{red|N}}]][[red naga|{{red|N}}]][[golden naga hatchling|{{yellow|N}}]][[golden naga|{{yellow|N}}]][[ogre|{{brown|O}}]][[ogre king|{{magenta|O}}]][[ogre lord|{{red|O}}]][[black pudding|{{black|P}}]][[brown pudding|{{brown|P}}]][[green slime|{{green|P}}]][[gray ooze|{{lightgray|P}}]][[quantum mechanic|{{cyan|Q}}]][[disenchanter|{{blue|R}}]][[rust monster|{{brown|R}}]][[pit viper|{{blue|S}}]][[cobra|{{blue|S}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[snake|{{brown|S}}]][[garter snake|{{green|S}}]][[python|{{magenta|S}}]][[water moccasin|{{red|S}}]][[water troll|{{blue|T}}]][[troll|{{brown|T}}]][[rock troll|{{cyan|T}}]][[Olog-hai|{{magenta|T}}]][[ice troll|{{white|T}}]][[umber hulk|{{brown|U}}]][[vampire lord|{{blue|V}}]][[vampire mage|{{brightblue|V}}]][[Vlad the Impaler|{{magenta|V}}]][[vampire|{{red|V}}]][[wraith|{{black|W}}]][[barrow wight|{{lightgray|W}}]][[Nazgul|{{magenta|W}}]][[xorn|{{brown|X}}]][[carnivorous ape|{{black|Y}}]][[ape|{{brown|Y}}]][[owlbear|{{brown|Y}}]][[monkey|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[sasquatch|{{lightgray|Y}}]][[yeti|{{white|Y}}]][[ghoul|{{black|Z}}]][[ettin zombie|{{blue|Z}}]][[kobold zombie|{{brown|Z}}]][[gnome zombie|{{brown|Z}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[giant zombie|{{cyan|Z}}]][[elf zombie|{{green|Z}}]][[orc zombie|{{lightgray|Z}}]][[dwarf zombie|{{red|Z}}]][[human zombie|{{white|Z}}]][[skeleton|{{white|Z}}]][[water demon|{{blue|&amp;}}]][[mail daemon|{{brightblue|&amp;}}]][[Juiblex|{{brightgreen|&amp;}}]][[horned devil|{{brown|&amp;}}]][[succubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[incubus|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[bone devil|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[sandestin|{{lightgray|&amp;}}]][[Yeenoghu|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Orcus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Geryon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Dispater|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Baalzebub|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Asmodeus|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Demogorgon|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Death|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Pestilence|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[Famine|{{magenta|&amp;}}]][[erinys|{{red|&amp;}}]][[barbed devil|{{red|&amp;}}]][[marilith|{{red|&amp;}}]][[vrock|{{red|&amp;}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[hezrou|{{red|&amp;}}]][[nalfeshnee|{{red|&amp;}}]][[pit fiend|{{red|&amp;}}]][[balrog|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Minion of Huhetotl|{{red|&amp;}}]][[Nalzok|{{red|&amp;}}]][[ice devil|{{white|&amp;}}]][[djinni|{{yellow|&amp;}}]][[rope golem|{{brown|'}}]][[leather golem|{{brown|'}}]][[wood golem|{{brown|'}}]][[clay golem|{{brown|'}}]][[glass golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[iron golem|{{cyan|'}}]][[stone golem|{{lightgray|'}}]][[flesh golem|{{red|'}}]][[paper golem|{{white|'}}]][[straw golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[gold golem|{{yellow|'}}]][[salamander|{{brightred|:}}]][[iguana|{{brown|:}}]][[baby crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[chameleon|{{brown|:}}]][[crocodile|{{brown|:}}]][[gecko|{{green|:}}]][[lizard|{{green|:}}]][[newt|{{yellow|:}}]][[jellyfish|{{blue|;}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[electric eel|{{brightblue|;}}]][[giant eel|{{cyan|;}}]][[shark|{{lightgray|;}}]][[piranha|{{red|;}}]][[kraken|{{red|;}}]][[Grand Master|{{black|@}}]][[Dark One|{{black|@}}]][[guard|{{blue|@}}]][[captain|{{blue|@}}]][[elf-lord|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Oracle|{{brightblue|@}}]][[Green-elf|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[Medusa|{{brightgreen|@}}]][[werewolf (human)|{{brightred|@}}]][[wererat (human)|{{brown|@}}]][[Woodland-elf|{{green|@}}]][[lieutenant|{{green|@}}]][[watch captain|{{green|@}}]][[Neferet the Green|{{green|@}}]][[Grey-elf|{{lightgray|@}}]][[soldier|{{lightgray|@}}]][[watchman|{{lightgray|@}}]][[Elvenking|{{magenta|@}}]][[Wizard of Yendor|{{magenta|@}}]][[Croesus|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Carnarvon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Pelias|{{magenta|@}}]][[Shaman Karnov|{{magenta|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[Earendil|{{magenta|@}}]][[Hippocrates|{{magenta|@}}]][[King Arthur|{{magenta|@}}]][[Orion|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master of Thieves|{{magenta|@}}]][[Lord Sato|{{magenta|@}}]][[Norn|{{magenta|@}}]][[Thoth Amon|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Kaen|{{magenta|@}}]][[Master Assassin|{{magenta|@}}]][[Ashikaga Takauji|{{magenta|@}}]][[werejackal (human)|{{red|@}}]][[sergeant|{{red|@}}]][[human|{{white|@}}]][[elf|{{white|@}}]][[doppelganger|{{white|@}}]][[nurse|{{white|@}}]][[shopkeeper|{{white|@}}]][[prisoner|{{white|@}}]][[aligned priest|{{white|@}}]][[high priest|{{white|@}}]][[Charon|{{white|@}}]][[archeologist|{{white|@}}]][[barbarian|{{white|@}}]][[caveman|{{white|@}}]][[cavewoman|{{white|@}}]][[healer|{{white|@}}]][[knight|{{white|@}}]]&lt;br/&gt;

[[monk|{{white|@}}]][[priest|{{white|@}}]][[priestess|{{white|@}}]][[ranger|{{white|@}}]][[rogue|{{white|@}}]][[samurai|{{white|@}}]][[tourist|{{white|@}}]][[valkyrie|{{white|@}}]][[wizard|{{white|@}}]][[Arch Priest|{{white|@}}]][[Twoflower|{{white|@}}]][[student|{{white|@}}]][[chieftain|{{white|@}}]][[neanderthal|{{white|@}}]][[High-elf|{{white|@}}]][[attendant|{{white|@}}]][[page|{{white|@}}]][[abbot|{{white|@}}]][[acolyte|{{white|@}}]][[hunter|{{white|@}}]][[thug|{{white|@}}]][[ninja|{{white|@}}]][[roshi|{{white|@}}]][[guide|{{white|@}}]][[warrior|{{white|@}}]][[apprentice|{{white|@}}]][[long worm tail|{{brown|~}}]][[strange object|{{black|]}}]]
|}
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>cav6c1cho5bi7impgk964zbcswfnd05</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>25657</id>
      <parentid>21986</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-02-23T21:25:53Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Use the Template:Monsters instead of putting them directly in here</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3752">&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:2px;"
|width="60%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; margin-right:2px; vertical-align: top;"|
{{Currentfeature}}
|width="40%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|style="width: 100%; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|colspan="3" style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestibles]]
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%"
|width="33%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB;  padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|width="33%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|width="33%" style="background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]] - [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|-
|colspan="4" width="100%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; text-align:center; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}
|}
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>pycrarbq4wjzqsijz1f2agibn3n2lu8</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>25716</id>
      <parentid>25657</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-02-24T21:04:58Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>link to [[comestible]], not the plural one</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3752">&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://www.wikia.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:2px;"
|width="60%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; margin-right:2px; vertical-align: top;"|
{{Currentfeature}}
|width="40%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|style="width: 100%; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|colspan="3" style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%"
|width="33%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB;  padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|width="33%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|width="33%" style="background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]] - [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|-
|colspan="4" width="100%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; text-align:center; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}
|}
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>ensktmf2kkuf15m3trrpxamj7adv2kx</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>30601</id>
      <parentid>25716</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-03-15T15:07:42Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>new URL for wikistats</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3748">&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://wikistats.wikia.com/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:2px;"
|width="60%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; margin-right:2px; vertical-align: top;"|
{{Currentfeature}}
|width="40%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|style="width: 100%; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|colspan="3" style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%"
|width="33%" style="background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB;  padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|width="33%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|width="33%" style="background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]] - [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|-
|colspan="4" width="100%" valign="top" style="background:#E7FFDF; text-align:center; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}
|}
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>hkxdgulsvx2e4jlcgcxy2eqjstsqrea</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>31228</id>
      <parentid>30601</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-04-10T21:54:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ray Chason</username>
        <id>679</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Certain skins work better if the colored panels have an explicit foreground color</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3928">&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://wikistats.wikia.com/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:2px;"
|width="60%" style="foreground:#000000; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; margin-right:2px; vertical-align: top;"|
{{Currentfeature}}
|width="40%" valign="top" style="foreground:#000000; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|style="width: 100%; foreground:#000000; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|colspan="3" style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="foreground:#000000; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="foreground:#000000; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; margin-top:2px;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%"
|width="33%" style="foreground:#000000; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB;  padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|width="33%" style="foreground:#000000; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|width="33%" style="foreground:#000000; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]] - [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|-
|colspan="4" width="100%" valign="top" style="foreground:#000000; background:#E7FFDF; text-align:center; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; padding:2px 2px 4px 4px"|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}
|}
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>lsbc1fa3tc51ytjob8jwhux02veb3dr</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>34601</id>
      <parentid>31228</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-08-04T13:16:14Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Sannse</username>
        <id>718</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>updating to new layout</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4088">&lt;mainpage-leftcolumn-start /&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://wikistats.wikia.com/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
{{Currentfeature}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;mainpage-endcolumn /&gt;

&lt;mainpage-rightcolumn-start /&gt;
{| width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="5" style="border: 1px solid black; height:250px; padding:1em; margin-bottom:10px;"
|-
| 
* second ad shows here
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]] - [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
|
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|}
&lt;mainpage-endcolumn /&gt;
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>ppfwonokx2eawl4u21j6fahmrtjukcx</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>34602</id>
      <parentid>34601</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-08-04T13:16:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Sannse</username>
        <id>718</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>remove placeholder box</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3928">&lt;mainpage-leftcolumn-start /&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://wikistats.wikia.com/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
{{Currentfeature}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;mainpage-endcolumn /&gt;

&lt;mainpage-rightcolumn-start /&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]] - [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
|
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|}
&lt;mainpage-endcolumn /&gt;
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>fvb06lbs9bi1u9z26mpi54v9cqinlqn</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>37806</id>
      <parentid>34602</parentid>
      <timestamp>2009-02-09T00:49:13Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>a link to [[Category:Todo]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3960">&lt;mainpage-leftcolumn-start /&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://wikistats.wikia.com/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
{{Currentfeature}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;mainpage-endcolumn /&gt;

&lt;mainpage-rightcolumn-start /&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
**[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]]
**[[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
**[[:Category:Todo|Todo list]]
|
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|}
&lt;mainpage-endcolumn /&gt;
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>6tfhmtwprw8drs90oy7zu9yuu7j5cqm</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>37971</id>
      <parentid>37806</parentid>
      <timestamp>2009-02-16T14:14:13Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>[[:Category:SLASH'EM stubs|SLASH'EM stubs]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4006">&lt;mainpage-leftcolumn-start /&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://wikistats.wikia.com/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
{{Currentfeature}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;mainpage-endcolumn /&gt;

&lt;mainpage-rightcolumn-start /&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
**[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]]
**[[:Category:SLASH'EM stubs|SLASH'EM stubs]]
**[[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
**[[:Category:Todo|Todo list]]
|
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|}
&lt;mainpage-endcolumn /&gt;
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>h0v5i1359mg27umh6jze3g1p7rdy72q</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>46982</id>
      <parentid>37971</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-03-01T18:07:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>use featured article temple. Please correct any mistakes you spot.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4031">&lt;mainpage-leftcolumn-start /&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://wikistats.wikia.com/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;!--{{Currentfeature}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:F}}}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;mainpage-endcolumn /&gt;

&lt;mainpage-rightcolumn-start /&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
**[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]]
**[[:Category:SLASH'EM stubs|SLASH'EM stubs]]
**[[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
**[[:Category:Todo|Todo list]]
|
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|}
&lt;mainpage-endcolumn /&gt;
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>2dj826gv0gahgnqfbs2pddp4nl6yczq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>48921</id>
      <parentid>46982</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-05-13T07:19:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>usernamereplace</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4076">&lt;mainpage-leftcolumn-start /&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;"&gt;
'''Hello &lt;span class="usernamereplace"&gt;visitor&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to Wikihack!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://wikistats.wikia.com/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;!--{{Currentfeature}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:F}}}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;mainpage-endcolumn /&gt;

&lt;mainpage-rightcolumn-start /&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
**[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]]
**[[:Category:SLASH'EM stubs|SLASH'EM stubs]]
**[[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
**[[:Category:Todo|Todo list]]
|
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|}
&lt;mainpage-endcolumn /&gt;
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>r610myqcq817o7nlatg6n4mcztz5fai</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>48924</id>
      <parentid>48921</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-05-13T07:32:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Undo revision 48921 by [[Special:Contributions/Paxed|Paxed]]: it doesn't work. blah.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4031">&lt;mainpage-leftcolumn-start /&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://wikistats.wikia.com/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;!--{{Currentfeature}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:F}}}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;mainpage-endcolumn /&gt;

&lt;mainpage-rightcolumn-start /&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
**[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]]
**[[:Category:SLASH'EM stubs|SLASH'EM stubs]]
**[[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
**[[:Category:Todo|Todo list]]
|
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|}
&lt;mainpage-endcolumn /&gt;
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>2dj826gv0gahgnqfbs2pddp4nl6yczq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53011</id>
      <parentid>48924</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-10-07T17:04:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>test padding</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4045">&lt;mainpage-leftcolumn-start /&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;padding:0 2em;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://wikistats.wikia.com/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;!--{{Currentfeature}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:F}}}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;mainpage-endcolumn /&gt;

&lt;mainpage-rightcolumn-start /&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
**[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]]
**[[:Category:SLASH'EM stubs|SLASH'EM stubs]]
**[[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
**[[:Category:Todo|Todo list]]
|
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|}
&lt;mainpage-endcolumn /&gt;
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>10hhh3fxfkuw9tf41eb4ycjuh3dfvpv</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53012</id>
      <parentid>53011</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-10-07T17:05:18Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>oops, padding params in wrong order.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4045">&lt;mainpage-leftcolumn-start /&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;padding:2em 0;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://wikistats.wikia.com/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;!--{{Currentfeature}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:F}}}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;mainpage-endcolumn /&gt;

&lt;mainpage-rightcolumn-start /&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
**[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]]
**[[:Category:SLASH'EM stubs|SLASH'EM stubs]]
**[[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
**[[:Category:Todo|Todo list]]
|
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|}
&lt;mainpage-endcolumn /&gt;
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>c8phrjv4vwlq7uyneoz4cs10esfu0ws</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53013</id>
      <parentid>53012</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-10-07T17:05:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>and 2em is wayyy too much.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4047">&lt;mainpage-leftcolumn-start /&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;padding:0.5em 0;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to Wikihack!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[Wikihack]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://wikistats.wikia.com/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;!--{{Currentfeature}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:F}}}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;mainpage-endcolumn /&gt;

&lt;mainpage-rightcolumn-start /&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
**[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]]
**[[:Category:SLASH'EM stubs|SLASH'EM stubs]]
**[[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
**[[:Category:Todo|Todo list]]
|
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|}
&lt;mainpage-endcolumn /&gt;
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>1auz1qbt0hsmxkr7nl9cecy5qr09hys</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53404</id>
      <parentid>53013</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-10-31T22:02:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>s/Wikihack/NethackWiki/</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4093">&lt;mainpage-leftcolumn-start /&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;padding:0.5em 0;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to NethackWiki.com!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[NethackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://wikistats.wikia.com/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;!--{{Currentfeature}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:F}}}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;mainpage-endcolumn /&gt;

&lt;mainpage-rightcolumn-start /&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
**[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]]
**[[:Category:SLASH'EM stubs|SLASH'EM stubs]]
**[[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
**[[:Category:Todo|Todo list]]
|
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|}
&lt;mainpage-endcolumn /&gt;
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
[http://www.example.com link title]
[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>mp0c2a8dk8nn68lv92r492lc075j78i</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53405</id>
      <parentid>53404</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-10-31T22:03:53Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>not so blatant yet</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4089">&lt;mainpage-leftcolumn-start /&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;padding:0.5em 0;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to NethackWiki!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[NethackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://wikistats.wikia.com/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;!--{{Currentfeature}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:F}}}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;mainpage-endcolumn /&gt;

&lt;mainpage-rightcolumn-start /&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
**[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]]
**[[:Category:SLASH'EM stubs|SLASH'EM stubs]]
**[[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
**[[:Category:Todo|Todo list]]
|
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|}
&lt;mainpage-endcolumn /&gt;
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
[http://www.example.com link title]
[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>5uy70vum442wt95e2bimkwubpuexotx</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53439</id>
      <parentid>53405</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-01T20:25:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>why doesn't the feature work?</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4086">&lt;mainpage-leftcolumn-start /&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;padding:0.5em 0;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to NethackWiki!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[NethackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://wikistats.wikia.com/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}}--&gt;{{FA|November}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;mainpage-endcolumn /&gt;

&lt;mainpage-rightcolumn-start /&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
**[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]]
**[[:Category:SLASH'EM stubs|SLASH'EM stubs]]
**[[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
**[[:Category:Todo|Todo list]]
|
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|}
&lt;mainpage-endcolumn /&gt;
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
[http://www.example.com link title]
[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>dttqy4oy46i7vzdegl0mlsv8k8ucicu</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53440</id>
      <parentid>53439</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-01T20:29:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>maybe numeric months work better...</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4105">&lt;mainpage-leftcolumn-start /&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;padding:0.5em 0;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to NethackWiki!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[NethackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://wikistats.wikia.com/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;mainpage-endcolumn /&gt;

&lt;mainpage-rightcolumn-start /&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
**[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]]
**[[:Category:SLASH'EM stubs|SLASH'EM stubs]]
**[[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
**[[:Category:Todo|Todo list]]
|
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|}
&lt;mainpage-endcolumn /&gt;
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
[http://www.example.com link title]
[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>qw213bw5p90wpov1eij2e1dz6xx7t2k</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53487</id>
      <parentid>53440</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-05T15:07:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Poll: Should NetHackWiki move away from Wikia?</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4495">&lt;mainpage-leftcolumn-start /&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;padding:0.5em 0;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to NethackWiki!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[NethackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://wikistats.wikia.com/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;div style="background-color:#faa; padding:0.5em;"&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align:center;font-weight:bold;"&gt;Should NetHackWiki move away from Wikia? See [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Wikihack:Community_Portal#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks our discussion].&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;poll&gt; 
Should NetHackWiki move away from Wikia?
Yes
No
Undecided
&lt;/poll&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;mainpage-endcolumn /&gt;

&lt;mainpage-rightcolumn-start /&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
**[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]]
**[[:Category:SLASH'EM stubs|SLASH'EM stubs]]
**[[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
**[[:Category:Todo|Todo list]]
|
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|}
&lt;mainpage-endcolumn /&gt;
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
[http://www.example.com link title]
[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>f439fnrq5hzgnkr4acubd7yuy3nffgg</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53498</id>
      <parentid>53487</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-06T09:34:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Vote until Sunday, 24:00h CET = 6:00pm Eastern = 3:00pm Pacific time.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4568">&lt;mainpage-leftcolumn-start /&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;padding:0.5em 0;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to NethackWiki!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[NethackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://wikistats.wikia.com/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;div style="background-color:#faa; padding:0.5em;"&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align:center;font-weight:bold;"&gt;Should NetHackWiki move away from Wikia? See [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Wikihack:Community_Portal#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks our discussion].&lt;/div&gt;Vote until Sunday, 24:00h CET = 6:00pm Eastern = 3:00pm Pacific time.&lt;br&gt;
&lt;poll&gt; 
Should NetHackWiki move away from Wikia?
Yes
No
Undecided
&lt;/poll&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;mainpage-endcolumn /&gt;

&lt;mainpage-rightcolumn-start /&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
**[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]]
**[[:Category:SLASH'EM stubs|SLASH'EM stubs]]
**[[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
**[[:Category:Todo|Todo list]]
|
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|}
&lt;mainpage-endcolumn /&gt;
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
[http://www.example.com link title]
[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>a4lagm5zjxgkzxhwwot1la76lzmu37i</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53518</id>
      <parentid>53498</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-07T23:23:44Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Closed the poll. We will move.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4764">&lt;mainpage-leftcolumn-start /&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;padding:0.5em 0;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to NethackWiki!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[NethackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://wikistats.wikia.com/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;div style="background-color:#faa; padding:0.5em;"&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align:center;font-weight:bold;"&gt;NetHackWiki is moving away from Wikia. See [[Wikihack:Community_Portal#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks |our discussion]].&lt;br&gt;
{| class="wikitable"
!Option!!Votes!!Percentage
|-
|Move||157||72%
|-
|Stay||42||19%
|-
|Undecided||19||9%
|-
|Total||218||100%
|}
&lt;br&gt;'''Http://nethackwiki.com''' will point to the new wiki as soon as possible.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;!--Vote until Sunday, 24:00h CET = 6:00pm Eastern = 3:00pm Pacific time.&lt;br&gt;
&lt;poll&gt; 
Should NetHackWiki move away from Wikia?
Yes
No
Undecided
&lt;/poll&gt;--&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;mainpage-endcolumn /&gt;

&lt;mainpage-rightcolumn-start /&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
**[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]]
**[[:Category:SLASH'EM stubs|SLASH'EM stubs]]
**[[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
**[[:Category:Todo|Todo list]]
|
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|}
&lt;mainpage-endcolumn /&gt;
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__
[http://www.example.com link title]
[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>8n3zm0x9kac6m5ha2jbmvmyd0xfkmli</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53604</id>
      <parentid>53518</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-09T16:27:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>we don't have wikia mainpage-column extension, test plain divs instead.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4709">&lt;div style="width:300px; float:right"&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
**[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]]
**[[:Category:SLASH'EM stubs|SLASH'EM stubs]]
**[[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
**[[:Category:Todo|Todo list]]
|
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;adv=1 Advanced search]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right:310px;"&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;padding:0.5em 0;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to NethackWiki!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[NethackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[http://wikistats.wikia.com/EN/TablesWikiaNETHACK.htm {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;div style="background-color:#faa; padding:0.5em;"&gt;
&lt;div style="text-align:center;font-weight:bold;"&gt;NetHackWiki is moving away from Wikia. See [[Wikihack:Community_Portal#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks |our discussion]].&lt;br&gt;
{| class="wikitable"
!Option!!Votes!!Percentage
|-
|Move||157||72%
|-
|Stay||42||19%
|-
|Undecided||19||9%
|-
|Total||218||100%
|}
&lt;br&gt;'''Http://nethackwiki.com''' will point to the new wiki as soon as possible.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;!--Vote until Sunday, 24:00h CET = 6:00pm Eastern = 3:00pm Pacific time.&lt;br&gt;
&lt;poll&gt; 
Should NetHackWiki move away from Wikia?
Yes
No
Undecided
&lt;/poll&gt;--&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>7p448eyf4uvfyllmmxk2xc7zas10hs3</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53616</id>
      <parentid>53604</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T01:23:48Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>delete move message; correct links to wikia</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4093">&lt;div style="width:300px; float:right"&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
**[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]]
**[[:Category:SLASH'EM stubs|SLASH'EM stubs]]
**[[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
**[[:Category:Todo|Todo list]]
|
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;fulltext=Search&amp;advanced=1&amp;ns0=1&amp;redirs=0&amp;search= Advanced search]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right:310px;"&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;padding:0.5em 0;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[NethackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;

{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>5cwi50hyevnzpktz6sef4xeqebq9gp2</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53771</id>
      <parentid>53616</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T18:40:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>do not use the explicit url with MW version in it.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4074">&lt;div style="width:300px; float:right"&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Template:News&amp;action=edit edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
**[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]]
**[[:Category:SLASH'EM stubs|SLASH'EM stubs]]
**[[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
**[[:Category:Todo|Todo list]]
|
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Special:Search&amp;fulltext=Search&amp;advanced=1&amp;ns0=1&amp;redirs=0&amp;search= Advanced search]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right:310px;"&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;padding:0.5em 0;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[NethackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;

{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>i2alxbhktvm21euevob3jebbimjcr49</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53782</id>
      <parentid>53771</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T19:56:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>don't hardcode edit links at all, use {{fullurl:}}</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4006">&lt;div style="width:300px; float:right"&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
**[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]]
**[[:Category:SLASH'EM stubs|SLASH'EM stubs]]
**[[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
**[[:Category:Todo|Todo list]]
|
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[{{{fullurl:Special:Search|fulltext=Search&amp;advanced=1&amp;ns0=1&amp;redirs=0&amp;search=}} Advanced search]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right:310px;"&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;padding:0.5em 0;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[NethackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;

{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>8o1dozkvkbysoww2ykzy8272ripes7z</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53785</id>
      <parentid>53782</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T20:09:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>remove extra {</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4005">&lt;div style="width:300px; float:right"&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
**[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]]
**[[:Category:SLASH'EM stubs|SLASH'EM stubs]]
**[[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
**[[:Category:Todo|Todo list]]
|
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[{{fullurl:Special:Search|fulltext=Search&amp;advanced=1&amp;ns0=1&amp;redirs=0&amp;search=}} Advanced search]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right:310px;"&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;padding:0.5em 0;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[NethackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;

{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>90lc27qxocrqlj1sx1f8otx64rwu1nq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53975</id>
      <parentid>53785</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T18:04:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Text replace - "NethackWiki" to "NetHackWiki"</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4005">&lt;div style="width:300px; float:right"&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Community]]===
*[[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Wikihack:About|Wiki]]===
*[[Wikihack:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[Wikihack:How to help|How to help]]
**[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]]
**[[:Category:SLASH'EM stubs|SLASH'EM stubs]]
**[[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
**[[:Category:Todo|Todo list]]
|
*[[Wikihack:Templates|Templates]]
*[[Wikihack:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[Wikihack:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[{{fullurl:Special:Search|fulltext=Search&amp;advanced=1&amp;ns0=1&amp;redirs=0&amp;search=}} Advanced search]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right:310px;"&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;padding:0.5em 0;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;

{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>puwt6i9bceoj1te720cbgn092zk704d</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>54072</id>
      <parentid>53975</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T18:41:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Text replace - "Wikihack" to "NetHackWiki"</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4029">&lt;div style="width:300px; float:right"&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHackWiki:About|Community]]===
*[[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHackWiki:About|Wiki]]===
*[[NetHackWiki:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[NetHackWiki:How to help|How to help]]
**[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]]
**[[:Category:SLASH'EM stubs|SLASH'EM stubs]]
**[[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
**[[:Category:Todo|Todo list]]
|
*[[NetHackWiki:Templates|Templates]]
*[[NetHackWiki:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[NetHackWiki:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[{{fullurl:Special:Search|fulltext=Search&amp;advanced=1&amp;ns0=1&amp;redirs=0&amp;search=}} Advanced search]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right:310px;"&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;padding:0.5em 0;"&gt;
'''Hello, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;

{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>lc1wrtxa4c5sma4pqcucec2rawh58o6</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56298</id>
      <parentid>54072</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-12T04:08:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>greeting silliness: amend the greeting when it's full/new moon or Friday the 13th, insert a marked div to allow JS-based greeting by name</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4441">&lt;div style="width:300px; float:right"&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHackWiki:About|Community]]===
*[[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHackWiki:About|Wiki]]===
*[[NetHackWiki:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[NetHackWiki:How to help|How to help]]
**[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]]
**[[:Category:SLASH'EM stubs|SLASH'EM stubs]]
**[[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
**[[:Category:Todo|Todo list]]
|
*[[NetHackWiki:Templates|Templates]]
*[[NetHackWiki:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[NetHackWiki:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[{{fullurl:Special:Search|fulltext=Search&amp;advanced=1&amp;ns0=1&amp;redirs=0&amp;search=}} Advanced search]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right:310px;"&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;padding:0.5em 0;"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div style="font-size: smaller"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Be careful! New moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|4='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;You are lucky! Full moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&amp;nbsp; '''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''}}&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;

{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>p0p0270wd423v9n7fck6mxt9umlk5k4</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56882</id>
      <parentid>56298</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-15T23:26:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>try to use google analytics.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4535">&lt;meta name="google-site-verification" content="vCRL65oOXswxkUBgHBeB5bD10QVIpv30RQiR8evtg-0" /&gt;&lt;div style="width:300px; float:right"&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHackWiki:About|Community]]===
*[[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHackWiki:About|Wiki]]===
*[[NetHackWiki:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[NetHackWiki:How to help|How to help]]
**[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]]
**[[:Category:SLASH'EM stubs|SLASH'EM stubs]]
**[[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
**[[:Category:Todo|Todo list]]
|
*[[NetHackWiki:Templates|Templates]]
*[[NetHackWiki:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[NetHackWiki:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[{{fullurl:Special:Search|fulltext=Search&amp;advanced=1&amp;ns0=1&amp;redirs=0&amp;search=}} Advanced search]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right:310px;"&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;padding:0.5em 0;"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div style="font-size: smaller"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Be careful! New moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|4='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;You are lucky! Full moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&amp;nbsp; '''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''}}&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;

{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>jmn5c43ochdy7vuwlu1w2yvaju0olro</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56883</id>
      <parentid>56882</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-15T23:26:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) to last revision by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4441">&lt;div style="width:300px; float:right"&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHackWiki:About|Community]]===
*[[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHackWiki:About|Wiki]]===
*[[NetHackWiki:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[NetHackWiki:How to help|How to help]]
**[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]]
**[[:Category:SLASH'EM stubs|SLASH'EM stubs]]
**[[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
**[[:Category:Todo|Todo list]]
|
*[[NetHackWiki:Templates|Templates]]
*[[NetHackWiki:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[NetHackWiki:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[{{fullurl:Special:Search|fulltext=Search&amp;advanced=1&amp;ns0=1&amp;redirs=0&amp;search=}} Advanced search]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right:310px;"&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;padding:0.5em 0;"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div style="font-size: smaller"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Be careful! New moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|4='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;You are lucky! Full moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&amp;nbsp; '''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''}}&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;

{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>p0p0270wd423v9n7fck6mxt9umlk5k4</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56985</id>
      <parentid>56883</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-18T00:10:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>making the main page more dynamic by adding links to the latest forum discussions</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4772">&lt;div style="width:300px; float:right"&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Latest discussions]]===
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=false
count=5
mode=list
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHackWiki:About|Community]]===
*[[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHackWiki:About|Wiki]]===
*[[NetHackWiki:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[NetHackWiki:How to help|How to help]]
**[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]]
**[[:Category:SLASH'EM stubs|SLASH'EM stubs]]
**[[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
**[[:Category:Todo|Todo list]]
|
*[[NetHackWiki:Templates|Templates]]
*[[NetHackWiki:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[NetHackWiki:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[{{fullurl:Special:Search|fulltext=Search&amp;advanced=1&amp;ns0=1&amp;redirs=0&amp;search=}} Advanced search]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right:310px;"&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;padding:0.5em 0;"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div style="font-size: smaller"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Be careful! New moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|4='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;You are lucky! Full moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&amp;nbsp; '''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''}}&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;

{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>0ajrngzbhkel6dfqh19w3j6xsxu7331</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57026</id>
      <parentid>56985</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-18T16:20:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>wrap "latest discussions" into &lt;ul&gt;, as &lt;forum&gt; doesn't do that.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4783">&lt;div style="width:300px; float:right"&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Latest discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=false
count=5
mode=list
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHackWiki:About|Community]]===
*[[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHackWiki:About|Wiki]]===
*[[NetHackWiki:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[NetHackWiki:How to help|How to help]]
**[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]]
**[[:Category:SLASH'EM stubs|SLASH'EM stubs]]
**[[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
**[[:Category:Todo|Todo list]]
|
*[[NetHackWiki:Templates|Templates]]
*[[NetHackWiki:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[NetHackWiki:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[{{fullurl:Special:Search|fulltext=Search&amp;advanced=1&amp;ns0=1&amp;redirs=0&amp;search=}} Advanced search]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right:310px;"&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;padding:0.5em 0;"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div style="font-size: smaller"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Be careful! New moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|4='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;You are lucky! Full moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&amp;nbsp; '''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''}}&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;

{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>k3es7rz166h348ru7yym7t4cc1oolcw</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57180</id>
      <parentid>57026</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-20T13:44:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>added a random true rumor :)</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4864">&lt;div style="width:300px; float:right"&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Latest discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=false
count=5
mode=list
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHackWiki:About|Community]]===
*[[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHackWiki:About|Wiki]]===
*[[NetHackWiki:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[NetHackWiki:How to help|How to help]]
**[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]]
**[[:Category:SLASH'EM stubs|SLASH'EM stubs]]
**[[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
**[[:Category:Todo|Todo list]]
|
*[[NetHackWiki:Templates|Templates]]
*[[NetHackWiki:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[NetHackWiki:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[{{fullurl:Special:Search|fulltext=Search&amp;advanced=1&amp;ns0=1&amp;redirs=0&amp;search=}} Advanced search]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right:310px;"&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;padding:0.5em 0;"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div style="font-size: smaller"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Be careful! New moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|4='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;You are lucky! Full moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&amp;nbsp; '''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''}}
&lt;div style="font-size: small; font-style: italic;"&gt;"{{random true rumor}}"&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;

{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>92xlye9f3yjkkkjh0112p97gwvkdngh</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57407</id>
      <parentid>57180</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-22T05:19:13Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>don't show rumor if it's full/new moon or Friday 13, per talk</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4905">&lt;div style="width:300px; float:right"&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Latest discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=false
count=5
mode=list
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|Meta]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHackWiki:About|Community]]===
*[[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHackWiki:About|Wiki]]===
*[[NetHackWiki:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[NetHackWiki:How to help|How to help]]
**[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]]
**[[:Category:SLASH'EM stubs|SLASH'EM stubs]]
**[[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
**[[:Category:Todo|Todo list]]
|
*[[NetHackWiki:Templates|Templates]]
*[[NetHackWiki:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[NetHackWiki:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[{{fullurl:Special:Search|fulltext=Search&amp;advanced=1&amp;ns0=1&amp;redirs=0&amp;search=}} Advanced search]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right:310px;"&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;padding:0.5em 0;"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div style="font-size: smaller"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Be careful! New moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|4='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;You are lucky! Full moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||&lt;div style="font-size: small; font-style: italic;"&gt;"{{random true rumor}}"&lt;/div&gt;}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&amp;nbsp; '''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;

{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>fl4zbpaja3kes5alme3x5hkyliydfn5</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57443</id>
      <parentid>57407</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-22T19:06:44Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>try to tell Google we're about NetHack. See talk "how search engines see us".</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4955">&lt;div style="width:300px; float:right"&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===NetHack News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Latest discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=false
count=5
mode=list
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|The Game NetHack]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}&lt;!-- Todo: add spork and un--&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHackWiki:About|Community]]===
*[[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHackWiki:About|Wiki]]===
*[[NetHackWiki:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[NetHackWiki:How to help|How to help]]
**[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]]
**[[:Category:SLASH'EM stubs|SLASH'EM stubs]]
**[[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
**[[:Category:Todo|Todo list]]
|
*[[NetHackWiki:Templates|Templates]]
*[[NetHackWiki:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[NetHackWiki:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[{{fullurl:Special:Search|fulltext=Search&amp;advanced=1&amp;ns0=1&amp;redirs=0&amp;search=}} Advanced search]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right:310px;"&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;padding:0.5em 0;"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div style="font-size: smaller"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Be careful! New moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|4='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;You are lucky! Full moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||&lt;div style="font-size: small; font-style: italic;"&gt;"{{random true rumor}}"&lt;/div&gt;}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&amp;nbsp; '''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;

{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>oxx7sza591efmo6clde54gnp170zg8o</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57468</id>
      <parentid>57443</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-23T02:32:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>s/NetHack News/News/</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4947">&lt;div style="width:300px; float:right"&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Latest discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=false
count=5
mode=list
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|The Game NetHack]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}&lt;!-- Todo: add spork and un--&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHackWiki:About|Community]]===
*[[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHackWiki:About|Wiki]]===
*[[NetHackWiki:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[NetHackWiki:How to help|How to help]]
**[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]]
**[[:Category:SLASH'EM stubs|SLASH'EM stubs]]
**[[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
**[[:Category:Todo|Todo list]]
|
*[[NetHackWiki:Templates|Templates]]
*[[NetHackWiki:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[NetHackWiki:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[{{fullurl:Special:Search|fulltext=Search&amp;advanced=1&amp;ns0=1&amp;redirs=0&amp;search=}} Advanced search]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right:310px;"&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;padding:0.5em 0;"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div style="font-size: smaller"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Be careful! New moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|4='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;You are lucky! Full moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||&lt;div style="font-size: small; font-style: italic;"&gt;"{{random true rumor}}"&lt;/div&gt;}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&amp;nbsp; '''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;

{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>q5z9i7alcjdgt3bfi3cqdhnsgo95u99</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61368</id>
      <parentid>57468</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-14T20:14:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>hide some information from registered users.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4990">&lt;div style="width:300px; float:right"&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Latest discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=false
count=5
mode=list
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|The Game NetHack]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}&lt;!-- Todo: add spork and un--&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHackWiki:About|Community]]===
*[[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHackWiki:About|Wiki]]===
*[[NetHackWiki:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[NetHackWiki:How to help|How to help]]
**[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]]
**[[:Category:SLASH'EM stubs|SLASH'EM stubs]]
**[[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
**[[:Category:Todo|Todo list]]
|
*[[NetHackWiki:Templates|Templates]]
*[[NetHackWiki:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[NetHackWiki:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[{{fullurl:Special:Search|fulltext=Search&amp;advanced=1&amp;ns0=1&amp;redirs=0&amp;search=}} Advanced search]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right:310px;"&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;padding:0.5em 0;"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div style="font-size: smaller"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Be careful! New moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|4='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;You are lucky! Full moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||&lt;div style="font-size: small; font-style: italic;"&gt;"{{random true rumor}}"&lt;/div&gt;}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&amp;nbsp; '''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
'''[[NetHackWiki]] &lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;''' This [[wiki]]&lt;/span&gt; was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;

{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>ocjdqli6ulvwir9hyftba74zomqda9x</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61370</id>
      <parentid>61368</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-14T20:16:59Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>didn't quite work as intended.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4990">&lt;div style="width:300px; float:right"&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Latest discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=false
count=5
mode=list
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|The Game NetHack]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}&lt;!-- Todo: add spork and un--&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHackWiki:About|Community]]===
*[[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHackWiki:About|Wiki]]===
*[[NetHackWiki:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[NetHackWiki:How to help|How to help]]
**[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]]
**[[:Category:SLASH'EM stubs|SLASH'EM stubs]]
**[[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
**[[:Category:Todo|Todo list]]
|
*[[NetHackWiki:Templates|Templates]]
*[[NetHackWiki:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[NetHackWiki:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[{{fullurl:Special:Search|fulltext=Search&amp;advanced=1&amp;ns0=1&amp;redirs=0&amp;search=}} Advanced search]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right:310px;"&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;padding:0.5em 0;"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div style="font-size: smaller"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Be careful! New moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|4='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;You are lucky! Full moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||&lt;div style="font-size: small; font-style: italic;"&gt;"{{random true rumor}}"&lt;/div&gt;}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&amp;nbsp; '''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt; This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;

{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>5txzaqc6aildj8cb5bluykiariucr4b</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61700</id>
      <parentid>61370</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-20T16:41:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>specify right column width in % instead of px</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="5009">&lt;div style="width: 35%; float:right"&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:0px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Latest discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=false
count=5
mode=list
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|The Game NetHack]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}&lt;!-- Todo: add spork and un--&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHackWiki:About|Community]]===
*[[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHackWiki:About|Wiki]]===
*[[NetHackWiki:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[NetHackWiki:How to help|How to help]]
**[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]]
**[[:Category:SLASH'EM stubs|SLASH'EM stubs]]
**[[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
**[[:Category:Todo|Todo list]]
|
*[[NetHackWiki:Templates|Templates]]
*[[NetHackWiki:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[NetHackWiki:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[{{fullurl:Special:Search|fulltext=Search&amp;advanced=1&amp;ns0=1&amp;redirs=0&amp;search=}} Advanced search]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 35%; padding-right: 10px;"&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;padding:0.5em 0;"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div style="font-size: smaller"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Be careful! New moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|4='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;You are lucky! Full moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||&lt;div style="font-size: small; font-style: italic;"&gt;"{{random true rumor}}"&lt;/div&gt;}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&amp;nbsp; '''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt; This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;

{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>f9lsvaug01fx54erfh1r6ijlgb3b1ty</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61951</id>
      <parentid>61700</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-27T21:12:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>99.239.146.253</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Change community link</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="5016">&lt;div style="width: 35%; float:right"&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:0px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Latest discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=false
count=5
mode=list
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|The Game NetHack]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}&lt;!-- Todo: add spork and un--&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal|Community]]===
*[[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[:Forum:Index|Forums]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHackWiki:About|Wiki]]===
*[[NetHackWiki:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[NetHackWiki:How to help|How to help]]
*[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM stubs|SLASH'EM stubs]]
*[[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
*[[:Category:Todo|Todo list]]
|
*[[NetHackWiki:Templates|Templates]]
*[[NetHackWiki:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[NetHackWiki:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[{{fullurl:Special:Search|fulltext=Search&amp;advanced=1&amp;ns0=1&amp;redirs=0&amp;search=}} Advanced search]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 35%; padding-right: 10px;"&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;padding:0.5em 0;"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div style="font-size: smaller"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Be careful! New moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|4='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;You are lucky! Full moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||&lt;div style="font-size: small; font-style: italic;"&gt;"{{random true rumor}}"&lt;/div&gt;}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&amp;nbsp; '''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt; This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;

{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>gu0o9jhaxfa7c9jdio9ci7myidderl5</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61956</id>
      <parentid>61951</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-27T22:12:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>99.239.146.253</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Link to new combined forum</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="5020">&lt;div style="width: 35%; float:right"&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:0px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Latest discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=false
count=5
mode=list
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|The Game NetHack]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}&lt;!-- Todo: add spork and un--&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal|Community]]===
*[[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHackWiki:About|Wiki]]===
*[[NetHackWiki:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[NetHackWiki:How to help|How to help]]
*[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM stubs|SLASH'EM stubs]]
*[[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
*[[:Category:Todo|Todo list]]
|
*[[NetHackWiki:Templates|Templates]]
*[[NetHackWiki:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[NetHackWiki:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[{{fullurl:Special:Search|fulltext=Search&amp;advanced=1&amp;ns0=1&amp;redirs=0&amp;search=}} Advanced search]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 35%; padding-right: 10px;"&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;padding:0.5em 0;"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div style="font-size: smaller"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Be careful! New moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|4='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;You are lucky! Full moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||&lt;div style="font-size: small; font-style: italic;"&gt;"{{random true rumor}}"&lt;/div&gt;}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&amp;nbsp; '''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt; This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;

{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>fkmtouymw68u6i59hvhivxu3v56vdmp</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>62029</id>
      <parentid>61956</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-30T08:23:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>99.239.146.253</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Capital</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="5020">&lt;div style="width: 35%; float:right"&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:0px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Latest Discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=false
count=5
mode=list
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|The Game NetHack]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}&lt;!-- Todo: add spork and un--&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal|Community]]===
*[[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHackWiki:About|Wiki]]===
*[[NetHackWiki:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[NetHackWiki:How to help|How to help]]
*[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM stubs|SLASH'EM stubs]]
*[[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
*[[:Category:Todo|Todo list]]
|
*[[NetHackWiki:Templates|Templates]]
*[[NetHackWiki:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[NetHackWiki:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[{{fullurl:Special:Search|fulltext=Search&amp;advanced=1&amp;ns0=1&amp;redirs=0&amp;search=}} Advanced search]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 35%; padding-right: 10px;"&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;padding:0.5em 0;"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div style="font-size: smaller"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Be careful! New moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|4='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;You are lucky! Full moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||&lt;div style="font-size: small; font-style: italic;"&gt;"{{random true rumor}}"&lt;/div&gt;}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&amp;nbsp; '''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt; This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;

{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>fggxiv7yi2ofgtpbh1phk011n9fox5x</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>62441</id>
      <parentid>62029</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-01-03T16:14:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>remove "ask an expert", push the forum up</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4975">&lt;div style="width: 35%; float:right"&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:0px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Latest Discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=false
count=5
mode=list
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|The Game NetHack]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}&lt;!-- Todo: add spork and un--&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal|Community]]===
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFFFE3; border:2px solid #FFFF99; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHackWiki:About|Wiki]]===
*[[NetHackWiki:Style guide|Style guide]]
*[[NetHackWiki:How to help|How to help]]
*[[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM stubs|SLASH'EM stubs]]
*[[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted pages]]
*[[:Category:Todo|Todo list]]
|
*[[NetHackWiki:Templates|Templates]]
*[[NetHackWiki:Categories|Browse categories]]
*[[NetHackWiki:Current projects|Current projects]]
*[{{fullurl:Special:Search|fulltext=Search&amp;advanced=1&amp;ns0=1&amp;redirs=0&amp;search=}} Advanced search]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 35%; padding-right: 10px;"&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;padding:0.5em 0;"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div style="font-size: smaller"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Be careful! New moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|4='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;You are lucky! Full moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||&lt;div style="font-size: small; font-style: italic;"&gt;"{{random true rumor}}"&lt;/div&gt;}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&amp;nbsp; '''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt; This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;

{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>cjq3aoz8uwoj419jh2gkvgsgp146fss</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>62585</id>
      <parentid>62441</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-01-05T20:38:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>remove the yellow "wiki" box</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4377">&lt;div style="width: 35%; float:right"&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:0px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Latest Discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=false
count=5
mode=list
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|The Game NetHack]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}&lt;!-- Todo: add spork and un--&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal|Community]]===
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 35%; padding-right: 10px;"&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;padding:0.5em 0;"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div style="font-size: smaller"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Be careful! New moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|4='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;You are lucky! Full moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||&lt;div style="font-size: small; font-style: italic;"&gt;"{{random true rumor}}"&lt;/div&gt;}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&amp;nbsp; '''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt; This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;

{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>juy8fex5sxns3uuq7x55opbg4gi7p2b</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>62587</id>
      <parentid>62585</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-01-05T20:47:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>move the blue "Community" box to the Community Portal.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4014">&lt;div style="width: 35%; float:right"&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:0px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Latest Discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=false
count=5
mode=list
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|The Game NetHack]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}&lt;!-- Todo: add spork and un--&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 35%; padding-right: 10px;"&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;padding:0.5em 0;"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div style="font-size: smaller"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Be careful! New moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|4='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;You are lucky! Full moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||&lt;div style="font-size: small; font-style: italic;"&gt;"{{random true rumor}}"&lt;/div&gt;}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&amp;nbsp; '''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt; This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;

{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|[[Archeologist]] - [[Barbarian]] - [[Caveman]] - [[Healer]] - [[Knight]] - [[Priest]] - [[Monk]] - [[Ranger]] - [[Rogue]] - [[Samurai]] - [[Tourist]] - [[Valkyrie]] - [[Wizard]]
&lt;!--
[[Arc]] - [[Bar]] - [[Cav]] - [[Hea]] - [[Kni]] - [[Pri]] - [[Mon]] - [[Ran]] - [[Rog]] - [[Sam]] - [[Tou]] - [[Val]] - [[Wiz]]
--&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>6glqcq0nmsujr5ycmfbz12lmkhl2uhr</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>63223</id>
      <parentid>62587</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-01-12T20:52:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>use [[Template:roles]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3709">&lt;div style="width: 35%; float:right"&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:0px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Latest Discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=false
count=5
mode=list
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|The Game NetHack]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}&lt;!-- Todo: add spork and un--&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 35%; padding-right: 10px;"&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;padding:0.5em 0;"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div style="font-size: smaller"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Be careful! New moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|4='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;You are lucky! Full moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||&lt;div style="font-size: small; font-style: italic;"&gt;"{{random true rumor}}"&lt;/div&gt;}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&amp;nbsp; '''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt; This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;

{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|{{roles}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>lm2kx4vrusab2ahs9nhl44sa0es0ord</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>67458</id>
      <parentid>63223</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-02-02T17:36:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>don't show the Forum:-prefix for the latest forum messages</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3721">&lt;div style="width: 35%; float:right"&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:0px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Latest Discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=false
count=5
mode=list
omit=Forum:
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
===[[NetHack|The Game NetHack]]===
*[[:Category:Commands|Commands]]
*[[Game history|History]]
*[[Source code]]
*[[User interface|UI]]s and [[GUI]]s
|
*[[:Category:Development|Development]]
*[[:Category:Screenshots|Screenshots]]
*[[:Category:SLASH'EM|SLASH'EM]]
|}&lt;!-- Todo: add spork and un--&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 35%; padding-right: 10px;"&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;padding:0.5em 0;"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div style="font-size: smaller"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Be careful! New moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|4='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;You are lucky! Full moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||&lt;div style="font-size: small; font-style: italic;"&gt;"{{random true rumor}}"&lt;/div&gt;}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&amp;nbsp; '''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div&gt;
&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt; This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005. We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.
&lt;/div&gt;

{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:2px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top;"
|
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|{{roles}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>i969kx7ga903tdzjl23qnifnw8gjfs1</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>68869</id>
      <parentid>67458</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-02-12T11:04:58Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>try a slight redesign, with a random "screenshot"</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="2252">&lt;div style="width: 33%; float:right"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="width:100%;margin-top:0px; background:#E7FFDF; border:1px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; padding:0.2em;"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="width:100%;margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:1px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top; padding:0.2em;"&gt;
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Latest Discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=false
count=5
mode=list
omit=Forum:
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005.
We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.

&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 33%; padding-right: 10px;"&gt;
&lt;div style="width: 100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;padding:0.5em 0;"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div style="font-size: smaller"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Be careful! New moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|4='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;You are lucky! Full moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||&lt;div style="font-size: small; font-style: italic;"&gt;"{{random true rumor}}"&lt;/div&gt;}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&amp;nbsp; '''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;div style="width:100%;margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:1px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top; padding:0.2em;"&gt;
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-top:5px; vertical-align: top; text-align:center; overflow-x:auto; width:100%;"&gt;
{{:{{#rndpagetitle:Main Page rotation}}}}&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>d9wco00v6bgyv0kwryzheqqz8uisftx</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>68877</id>
      <parentid>68869</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-02-12T12:44:58Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>minor fixage</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="2259">&lt;div style="width: 33%; float:right"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="width:100%;margin-top:0px; background:#E7FFDF; border:1px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; padding:0.2em;"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="width:100%;margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:1px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top; padding:0.2em;"&gt;
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Latest Discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=false
count=5
mode=list
omit=Forum:
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005.
We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.

&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 33%; padding-right: 10px;"&gt;
&lt;div style="width:100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;padding:0.5em 0;border:1px solid black;"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div style="font-size: smaller"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Be careful! New moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|4='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;You are lucky! Full moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||&lt;div style="font-size: small; font-style: italic;"&gt;"{{random true rumor}}"&lt;/div&gt;}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&amp;nbsp; '''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;div style="width:100%;margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:1px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top"&gt;
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-top:5px; vertical-align: top; text-align:center; overflow-x:auto; width:100%;"&gt;
{{:{{#rndpagetitle:Main Page rotation}}}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>tv9vouv4vvo6f59mqfz6wo54w1fu3f2</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>68891</id>
      <parentid>68877</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-02-12T17:08:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>use the [[Template:Random ttymap]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="2235">&lt;div style="width: 33%; float:right"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="width:100%;margin-top:0px; background:#E7FFDF; border:1px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; padding:0.2em;"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="width:100%;margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:1px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top; padding:0.2em;"&gt;
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Latest Discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=false
count=5
mode=list
omit=Forum:
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005.
We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.

&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 33%; padding-right: 10px;"&gt;
&lt;div style="width:100%; text-align: center; font-family: monospace; font-size: 2em; color: white; background-color: black;padding:0.5em 0;border:1px solid black;"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div style="font-size: smaller"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Be careful! New moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|4='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;You are lucky! Full moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||&lt;div style="font-size: small; font-style: italic;"&gt;"{{random true rumor}}"&lt;/div&gt;}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&amp;nbsp; '''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;div style="width:100%;margin-top:5px; background:#FFECEC; border:1px solid #FFBBBB; vertical-align: top"&gt;
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-top:5px; vertical-align: top; text-align:center; overflow-x:auto; width:100%;"&gt;
{{Random ttymap}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>nllsbs4o0wdl55fqowrl4xo7igxnznm</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>68919</id>
      <parentid>68891</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-02-13T09:10:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>use css</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="1827">&lt;div style="width: 33%; float:right"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-news"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-forum"&gt;
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Latest Discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=false
count=5
mode=list
omit=Forum:
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005.
We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.

&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 33%; padding-right: 10px;"&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div style="font-size: smaller"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Be careful! New moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|4='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;You are lucky! Full moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||&lt;div style="font-size: small; font-style: italic;"&gt;"{{random true rumor}}"&lt;/div&gt;}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&amp;nbsp; '''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;div id="mainpage-featured"&gt;
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-top:5px; vertical-align: top; text-align:center; overflow-x:auto; width:100%;"&gt;
{{Random ttymap}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>pmaplmdlp8aqfobhszemgxhpf6i8ovh</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>69215</id>
      <parentid>68919</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-03-01T02:25:48Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>99.239.146.253</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Change to sentence case to match rest of site</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="1827">&lt;div style="width: 33%; float:right"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-news"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-forum"&gt;
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Latest discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=false
count=5
mode=list
omit=Forum:
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005.
We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.

&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 33%; padding-right: 10px;"&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div style="font-size: smaller"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Be careful! New moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|4='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;You are lucky! Full moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||&lt;div style="font-size: small; font-style: italic;"&gt;"{{random true rumor}}"&lt;/div&gt;}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&amp;nbsp; '''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;div id="mainpage-featured"&gt;
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-top:5px; vertical-align: top; text-align:center; overflow-x:auto; width:100%;"&gt;
{{Random ttymap}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>tht7dj6fz4ytntcfcrbz7ry5dhuvlex</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>70680</id>
      <parentid>69215</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-05-29T20:40:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>99.239.146.253</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>cat</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="1804">&lt;div style="width: 33%; float:right"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-news"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-forum"&gt;
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Latest discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=false
count=5
mode=list
omit=Forum:
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005.
We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.

&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 33%; padding-right: 10px;"&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div style="font-size: smaller"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Be careful! New moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|4='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;You are lucky! Full moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||&lt;div style="font-size: small; font-style: italic;"&gt;"{{random true rumor}}"&lt;/div&gt;}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&amp;nbsp; '''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;div id="mainpage-featured"&gt;
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-top:5px; vertical-align: top; text-align:center; overflow-x:auto; width:100%;"&gt;
{{Random ttymap}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__</text>
      <sha1>lpjunzoqsumlpfwm5xpostync4qark8</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>71081</id>
      <parentid>70680</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-06-14T21:46:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tekuromoto</username>
        <id>4000121</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>spsace between "Hello" and playername</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="1805">&lt;div style="width: 33%; float:right"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-news"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-forum"&gt;
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Latest discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=false
count=5
mode=list
omit=Forum:
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005.
We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.

&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 33%; padding-right: 10px;"&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting"&gt;
'''Hello &lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div style="font-size: smaller"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Be careful! New moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|4='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;You are lucky! Full moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||&lt;div style="font-size: small; font-style: italic;"&gt;"{{random true rumor}}"&lt;/div&gt;}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&amp;nbsp; '''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;div id="mainpage-featured"&gt;
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-top:5px; vertical-align: top; text-align:center; overflow-x:auto; width:100%;"&gt;
{{Random ttymap}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__</text>
      <sha1>dy0eb9xbvrblq2k6zjk5l5ws3zthyxq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>71530</id>
      <parentid>71081</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-07-13T17:25:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Try to fit monsters box in. I'm not happy with the result.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="1877">&lt;div style="width: 33%; float:right"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-news"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-forum"&gt;
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Latest discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=false
count=5
mode=list
omit=Forum:
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;div id="mainpage-monsters"&gt;
===Monster Symbols===
{{Monsters}}
&lt;/div&gt;

This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005.
We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.

&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 33%; padding-right: 10px;"&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting"&gt;
'''Hello &lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div style="font-size: smaller"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Be careful! New moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|4='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;You are lucky! Full moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||&lt;div style="font-size: small; font-style: italic;"&gt;"{{random true rumor}}"&lt;/div&gt;}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&amp;nbsp; '''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;div id="mainpage-featured"&gt;
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-top:5px; vertical-align: top; text-align:center; overflow-x:auto; width:100%;"&gt;
{{Random ttymap}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__</text>
      <sha1>rgg80lf4h1w4ar4cp12xuf37r0eb01f</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>71585</id>
      <parentid>71530</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-07-15T16:54:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Undo monster box, as per forum</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="1805">&lt;div style="width: 33%; float:right"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-news"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-forum"&gt;
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Latest discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=false
count=5
mode=list
omit=Forum:
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005.
We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.

&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 33%; padding-right: 10px;"&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting"&gt;
'''Hello &lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div style="font-size: smaller"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Be careful! New moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|4='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;You are lucky! Full moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||&lt;div style="font-size: small; font-style: italic;"&gt;"{{random true rumor}}"&lt;/div&gt;}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&amp;nbsp; '''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;div id="mainpage-featured"&gt;
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-top:5px; vertical-align: top; text-align:center; overflow-x:auto; width:100%;"&gt;
{{Random ttymap}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__</text>
      <sha1>dy0eb9xbvrblq2k6zjk5l5ws3zthyxq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>75496</id>
      <parentid>71585</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-12-26T13:40:48Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>124.6.181.165</ip>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="1856">&lt;div style="width: 33%; float:right"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-news"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-forum"&gt;
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Latest discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=false
count=5
mode=list
omit=Forum:
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005.
We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.

&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 33%; padding-right: 10px;"&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting"&gt;
'''Hello &lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div style="font-size: smaller"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Be careful! New moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|4='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;You are lucky! Full moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||&lt;div style="font-size: small; font-style: italic;"&gt;"{{random true rumor}}"&lt;/div&gt;}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&amp;nbsp; '''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;div id="mainpage-featured"&gt;
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-top:5px; vertical-align: top; text-align:center; overflow-x:auto; width:100%;"&gt;
{{Random ttymap}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
[http://www.webhostingbreak.com/forum/ Community]


__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__</text>
      <sha1>3b2sx89i8jq8oh31zrwal7qqrzw5186</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>75497</id>
      <parentid>75496</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-12-26T14:25:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ais523</username>
        <id>27</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/124.6.181.165|124.6.181.165]] ([[User talk:124.6.181.165|talk]]) to last revision by [[User:Tjr|Tjr]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="1805">&lt;div style="width: 33%; float:right"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-news"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-forum"&gt;
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Latest discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=false
count=5
mode=list
omit=Forum:
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005.
We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.

&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 33%; padding-right: 10px;"&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting"&gt;
'''Hello &lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div style="font-size: smaller"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Be careful! New moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|4='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;You are lucky! Full moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||&lt;div style="font-size: small; font-style: italic;"&gt;"{{random true rumor}}"&lt;/div&gt;}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&amp;nbsp; '''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;div id="mainpage-featured"&gt;
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-top:5px; vertical-align: top; text-align:center; overflow-x:auto; width:100%;"&gt;
{{Random ttymap}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__</text>
      <sha1>dy0eb9xbvrblq2k6zjk5l5ws3zthyxq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>76523</id>
      <parentid>75497</parentid>
      <timestamp>2012-02-28T16:16:44Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>remove space before name in greeting, anons should only see "Hello, welcome..."</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="1827">&lt;div style="width: 33%; float:right"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-news"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-forum"&gt;
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Latest discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=false
count=5
mode=list
omit=Forum:
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005.
We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.

&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 33%; padding-right: 10px;"&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;!-- no space here! --&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div style="font-size: smaller"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Be careful! New moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|4='''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;You are lucky! Full moon tonight.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||&lt;div style="font-size: small; font-style: italic;"&gt;"{{random true rumor}}"&lt;/div&gt;}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&amp;nbsp; '''[[Time|&lt;span style="color:white"&gt;Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.&lt;/span&gt;]]'''}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;div id="mainpage-featured"&gt;
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-top:5px; vertical-align: top; text-align:center; overflow-x:auto; width:100%;"&gt;
{{Random ttymap}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__</text>
      <sha1>45dk6sado4n6a9tkr9oedfx092ivm0m</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>78798</id>
      <parentid>76523</parentid>
      <timestamp>2012-08-04T12:19:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>move rumor styling to Common.css; make Friday the 13th message always appear on a separate line (looks nicer)</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="1681">&lt;div style="width: 33%; float:right"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-news"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-forum"&gt;
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Latest discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=false
count=5
mode=list
omit=Forum:
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005.
We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.

&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 33%; padding-right: 10px;"&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;!-- no space here! --&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting-rumor"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|Be careful! New moon tonight.]]'''
|4='''[[Time|You are lucky! Full moon tonight.]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||''"{{random true rumor}}"''}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&lt;div&gt;'''[[Time|Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.]]'''&lt;/div&gt;}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;div id="mainpage-featured"&gt;
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-top:5px; vertical-align: top; text-align:center; overflow-x:auto; width:100%;"&gt;
{{Random ttymap}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__</text>
      <sha1>0urvcnucyuqbitxplxyidqkq6cvqyz1</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>85637</id>
      <parentid>78798</parentid>
      <timestamp>2013-06-06T12:58:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Bulwersator</username>
        <id>4000045</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>+newbie friendly double linking</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="1797">&lt;div style="width: 33%; float:right"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-news"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-forum"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Forum:Watercooler|}} start new topic]&lt;/div&gt;
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Latest discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=false
count=5
mode=list
omit=Forum:
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005.
We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.

&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 33%; padding-right: 10px;"&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;!-- no space here! --&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting-rumor"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|Be careful! New moon tonight.]]'''
|4='''[[Time|You are lucky! Full moon tonight.]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||''"{{random true rumor}}"''}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&lt;div&gt;'''[[Time|Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.]]'''&lt;/div&gt;}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;div id="mainpage-featured"&gt;
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-top:5px; vertical-align: top; text-align:center; overflow-x:auto; width:100%;"&gt;
{{Random ttymap}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__</text>
      <sha1>1wxnqcrlml624s0v3kb6a6l1fbxrjmp</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>91970</id>
      <parentid>85637</parentid>
      <timestamp>2015-01-24T19:34:14Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Raindog308</username>
        <id>4000464</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Restored table of contents links at bottom of main page (items, roles, monsters, etc.)</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3068">&lt;div style="width: 33%; float:right"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-news"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-forum"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Forum:Watercooler|}} start new topic]&lt;/div&gt;
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Latest discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=false
count=5
mode=list
omit=Forum:
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005.
We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.

&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 33%; padding-right: 10px;"&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;!-- no space here! --&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting-rumor"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|Be careful! New moon tonight.]]'''
|4='''[[Time|You are lucky! Full moon tonight.]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||''"{{random true rumor}}"''}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&lt;div&gt;'''[[Time|Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.]]'''&lt;/div&gt;}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;div id="mainpage-featured"&gt;
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-top:5px; vertical-align: top; text-align:center; overflow-x:auto; width:100%;"&gt;
{{Random ttymap}}
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Hero|Roles]]===
|style="text-align:center;"|{{roles}}
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[Item]]s===
|width="30%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="30%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4; vertical-align: top;"
|width="10%"|
===[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]===
|width="30%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="30%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F; vertical-align: top; text-align:center"
|
===[[Monster]]s===
{{Monsters}}

|}
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__</text>
      <sha1>63vgigpqnq6nu0rx2kxc4wnos3zon3r</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>91974</id>
      <parentid>91970</parentid>
      <timestamp>2015-01-25T01:12:04Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>nicer table layout</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3175">&lt;div style="width: 33%; float:right"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-news"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-forum"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Forum:Watercooler|}} start new topic]&lt;/div&gt;
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Latest discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=false
count=5
mode=list
omit=Forum:
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005.
We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.

&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 33%; padding-right: 10px;"&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;!-- no space here! --&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting-rumor"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|Be careful! New moon tonight.]]'''
|4='''[[Time|You are lucky! Full moon tonight.]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||''"{{random true rumor}}"''}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&lt;div&gt;'''[[Time|Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.]]'''&lt;/div&gt;}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-featured"&gt;
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-top:5px; vertical-align: top; text-align:center; overflow-x:auto; width:100%;"&gt;
{{Random ttymap}}
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; border-collapse:none"
|colspan="2" style="background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="11%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Hero|Roles]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="89%" align="center"|{{roles}}
|}

|-
|width="66%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Item]]s&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}

|rowspan="2" width="33%" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F;" align="center"|
&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Monster]]s&lt;/b&gt;
&lt;div class="ttymap"&gt;{{Monsters/expanded}}&lt;/div&gt;

|-
|width="66%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}

|}

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__</text>
      <sha1>7vn82q37vzarh6v4tqft31lbsqwmomt</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>91978</id>
      <parentid>91974</parentid>
      <timestamp>2015-01-25T01:25:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>make the whole ttymap div black; looks more balanced, IMO</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3192">&lt;div style="width: 33%; float:right"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-news"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-forum"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Forum:Watercooler|}} start new topic]&lt;/div&gt;
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Latest discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=false
count=5
mode=list
omit=Forum:
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005.
We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.

&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 33%; padding-right: 10px;"&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;!-- no space here! --&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting-rumor"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|Be careful! New moon tonight.]]'''
|4='''[[Time|You are lucky! Full moon tonight.]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||''"{{random true rumor}}"''}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&lt;div&gt;'''[[Time|Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.]]'''&lt;/div&gt;}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-featured"&gt;
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-top:5px; vertical-align: top; text-align:center; overflow-x:auto; width:100%; background:black"&gt;
{{Random ttymap}}
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; border-collapse:none"
|colspan="2" style="background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="11%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Hero|Roles]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="89%" align="center"|{{roles}}
|}

|-
|width="66%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Item]]s&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}

|rowspan="2" width="33%" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F;" align="center"|
&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Monster]]s&lt;/b&gt;
&lt;div class="ttymap"&gt;{{Monsters/expanded}}&lt;/div&gt;

|-
|width="66%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}

|}

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__</text>
      <sha1>68lidg8wke2y3f0hwdasefl0hpqt3ug</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>91979</id>
      <parentid>91978</parentid>
      <timestamp>2015-01-25T01:38:23Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>move ttymap to end, looks better IMO</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3193">&lt;div style="width: 33%; float:right"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-news"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-forum"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Forum:Watercooler|}} start new topic]&lt;/div&gt;
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Latest discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=false
count=5
mode=list
omit=Forum:
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005.
We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.

&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 33%; padding-right: 10px;"&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;!-- no space here! --&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting-rumor"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|Be careful! New moon tonight.]]'''
|4='''[[Time|You are lucky! Full moon tonight.]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||''"{{random true rumor}}"''}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&lt;div&gt;'''[[Time|Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.]]'''&lt;/div&gt;}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-featured"&gt;
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; border-collapse:none"
|colspan="2" style="background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="11%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Hero|Roles]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="89%" align="center"|{{roles}}
|}

|-
|width="66%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Item]]s&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}

|rowspan="2" width="33%" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F;" align="center"|
&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Monster]]s&lt;/b&gt;
&lt;div class="ttymap"&gt;{{Monsters/expanded}}&lt;/div&gt;

|-
|width="66%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}

|}

&lt;div style="margin-top:5px; vertical-align: top; text-align:center; overflow-x:auto; width:100%; background:black"&gt;
{{Random ttymap}}
&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__</text>
      <sha1>98fjpkzsl35xebdwuzo1r7yd835y3po</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>91981</id>
      <parentid>91979</parentid>
      <timestamp>2015-01-25T01:59:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>replace {{random ttymap}} with jquery code in common.js</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3283">&lt;div style="width: 33%; float:right"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-news"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-forum"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Forum:Watercooler|}} start new topic]&lt;/div&gt;
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Latest discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=false
count=5
mode=list
omit=Forum:
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005.
We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.

&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 33%; padding-right: 10px;"&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;!-- no space here! --&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting-rumor"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|Be careful! New moon tonight.]]'''
|4='''[[Time|You are lucky! Full moon tonight.]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||''"{{random true rumor}}"''}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&lt;div&gt;'''[[Time|Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.]]'''&lt;/div&gt;}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-featured"&gt;
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; border-collapse:none"
|colspan="2" style="background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="11%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Hero|Roles]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="89%" align="center"|{{roles}}
|}

|-
|width="66%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Item]]s&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}

|rowspan="2" width="33%" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F;" align="center"|
&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Monster]]s&lt;/b&gt;
&lt;div class="ttymap"&gt;{{Monsters/expanded}}&lt;/div&gt;

|-
|width="66%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}

|}

&lt;div id="mainpage-ttyscreen" style="margin-top:5px; vertical-align: top; text-align:center; overflow-x:auto; width:100%; background:black"&gt;&lt;!-- this will be replaced by a random ttyscreen from Category:Main_Page_rotation --&gt;&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__</text>
      <sha1>nmwhcwzgdxb2idssk2fy19vik2amkcq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>92109</id>
      <parentid>91981</parentid>
      <timestamp>2015-02-05T13:47:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>set cache=true for forum box; seems to work fine for me, please revert if this causes the forum box not to update properly</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3282">&lt;div style="width: 33%; float:right"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-news"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-forum"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Forum:Watercooler|}} start new topic]&lt;/div&gt;
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Latest discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=true
count=5
mode=list
omit=Forum:
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005.
We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.

&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 33%; padding-right: 10px;"&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;!-- no space here! --&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting-rumor"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|Be careful! New moon tonight.]]'''
|4='''[[Time|You are lucky! Full moon tonight.]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||''"{{random true rumor}}"''}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&lt;div&gt;'''[[Time|Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.]]'''&lt;/div&gt;}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-featured"&gt;
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; border-collapse:none"
|colspan="2" style="background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="11%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Hero|Roles]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="89%" align="center"|{{roles}}
|}

|-
|width="66%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Item]]s&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}

|rowspan="2" width="33%" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F;" align="center"|
&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Monster]]s&lt;/b&gt;
&lt;div class="ttymap"&gt;{{Monsters/expanded}}&lt;/div&gt;

|-
|width="66%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}

|}

&lt;div id="mainpage-ttyscreen" style="margin-top:5px; vertical-align: top; text-align:center; overflow-x:auto; width:100%; background:black"&gt;&lt;!-- this will be replaced by a random ttyscreen from Category:Main_Page_rotation --&gt;&lt;/div&gt;

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__</text>
      <sha1>ce8qjaa6d1hj6yg5yoqpnp2seug60qq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>92111</id>
      <parentid>92109</parentid>
      <timestamp>2015-02-05T14:00:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>move ttymap back below FA, looks better with a short FA</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3281">&lt;div style="width: 33%; float:right"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-news"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-forum"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Forum:Watercooler|}} start new topic]&lt;/div&gt;
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Latest discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=true
count=5
mode=list
omit=Forum:
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005.
We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.

&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 33%; padding-right: 10px;"&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;!-- no space here! --&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting-rumor"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|Be careful! New moon tonight.]]'''
|4='''[[Time|You are lucky! Full moon tonight.]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||''"{{random true rumor}}"''}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&lt;div&gt;'''[[Time|Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.]]'''&lt;/div&gt;}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-featured"&gt;
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-ttyscreen" style="margin-top:5px; vertical-align: top; text-align:center; overflow-x:auto; width:100%; background:black"&gt;&lt;!-- this will be replaced by a random ttyscreen from Category:Main_Page_rotation --&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; border-collapse:none"
|colspan="2" style="background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="11%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Hero|Roles]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="89%" align="center"|{{roles}}
|}

|-
|width="66%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Item]]s&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}

|rowspan="2" width="33%" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F;" align="center"|
&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Monster]]s&lt;/b&gt;
&lt;div class="ttymap"&gt;{{Monsters/expanded}}&lt;/div&gt;

|-
|width="66%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}

|}

__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__</text>
      <sha1>5zuqzo8b43buzu23hy2epk86gnj7un3</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>92112</id>
      <parentid>92111</parentid>
      <timestamp>2015-02-05T14:01:38Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>fix extra whitespace at the bottom</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3280">&lt;div style="width: 33%; float:right"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-news"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-forum"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Forum:Watercooler|}} start new topic]&lt;/div&gt;
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Latest discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=true
count=5
mode=list
omit=Forum:
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005.
We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.

&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 33%; padding-right: 10px;"&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;!-- no space here! --&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting-rumor"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|Be careful! New moon tonight.]]'''
|4='''[[Time|You are lucky! Full moon tonight.]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||''"{{random true rumor}}"''}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&lt;div&gt;'''[[Time|Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.]]'''&lt;/div&gt;}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-featured"&gt;
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-ttyscreen" style="margin-top:5px; vertical-align: top; text-align:center; overflow-x:auto; width:100%; background:black"&gt;&lt;!-- this will be replaced by a random ttyscreen from Category:Main_Page_rotation --&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; border-collapse:none"
|colspan="2" style="background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="11%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Hero|Roles]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="89%" align="center"|{{roles}}
|}

|-
|width="66%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Item]]s&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}

|rowspan="2" width="33%" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F;" align="center"|
&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Monster]]s&lt;/b&gt;
&lt;div class="ttymap"&gt;{{Monsters/expanded}}&lt;/div&gt;

|-
|width="66%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}

|}
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__</text>
      <sha1>660qmisninds2rr57a8k0fr5p52dzhd</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>92127</id>
      <parentid>92112</parentid>
      <timestamp>2015-02-05T17:14:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>change forum box title from "latest discussions" to "active discussions", increase count from 5 to 7</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3280">&lt;div style="width: 33%; float:right"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-news"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-forum"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Forum:Watercooler|}} start new topic]&lt;/div&gt;
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Active discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=true
count=7
mode=list
omit=Forum:
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005.
We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.

&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 33%; padding-right: 10px;"&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;!-- no space here! --&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting-rumor"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|Be careful! New moon tonight.]]'''
|4='''[[Time|You are lucky! Full moon tonight.]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||''"{{random true rumor}}"''}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&lt;div&gt;'''[[Time|Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.]]'''&lt;/div&gt;}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-featured"&gt;
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-ttyscreen" style="margin-top:5px; vertical-align: top; text-align:center; overflow-x:auto; width:100%; background:black"&gt;&lt;!-- this will be replaced by a random ttyscreen from Category:Main_Page_rotation --&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; border-collapse:none"
|colspan="2" style="background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="11%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Hero|Roles]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="89%" align="center"|{{roles}}
|}

|-
|width="66%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Item]]s&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}

|rowspan="2" width="33%" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F;" align="center"|
&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Monster]]s&lt;/b&gt;
&lt;div class="ttymap"&gt;{{Monsters/expanded}}&lt;/div&gt;

|-
|width="66%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}

|}
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__</text>
      <sha1>19lzvcqfl8yd08n7cim1a5x0xl6s2cl</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>92128</id>
      <parentid>92127</parentid>
      <timestamp>2015-02-05T17:19:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>make the ttyscreen smaller</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3295">&lt;div style="width: 33%; float:right"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-news"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-forum"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Forum:Watercooler|}} start new topic]&lt;/div&gt;
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Active discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=true
count=7
mode=list
omit=Forum:
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005.
We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.

&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 33%; padding-right: 10px;"&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;!-- no space here! --&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting-rumor"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|Be careful! New moon tonight.]]'''
|4='''[[Time|You are lucky! Full moon tonight.]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||''"{{random true rumor}}"''}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&lt;div&gt;'''[[Time|Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.]]'''&lt;/div&gt;}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-featured"&gt;
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-ttyscreen" style="margin-top:5px; vertical-align: top; text-align:center; overflow-x:auto; width:100%; background:black; font-size:80%"&gt;&lt;!-- this will be replaced by a random ttyscreen from Category:Main_Page_rotation --&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; border-collapse:none"
|colspan="2" style="background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="11%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Hero|Roles]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="89%" align="center"|{{roles}}
|}

|-
|width="66%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Item]]s&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}

|rowspan="2" width="33%" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F;" align="center"|
&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Monster]]s&lt;/b&gt;
&lt;div class="ttymap"&gt;{{Monsters/expanded}}&lt;/div&gt;

|-
|width="66%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}

|}
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__</text>
      <sha1>hkxlsi36dzx4rgkw779q9xfy29kyj01</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>92129</id>
      <parentid>92128</parentid>
      <timestamp>2015-02-05T17:21:14Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>reduce sidebar margin to 5px from 10px</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3294">&lt;div style="width: 33%; float:right"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-news"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-forum"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Forum:Watercooler|}} start new topic]&lt;/div&gt;
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Active discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=true
count=7
mode=list
omit=Forum:
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005.
We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.

&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 33%; padding-right: 5px;"&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;!-- no space here! --&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting-rumor"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|Be careful! New moon tonight.]]'''
|4='''[[Time|You are lucky! Full moon tonight.]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||''"{{random true rumor}}"''}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&lt;div&gt;'''[[Time|Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.]]'''&lt;/div&gt;}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-featured"&gt;
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-ttyscreen" style="margin-top:5px; vertical-align: top; text-align:center; overflow-x:auto; width:100%; background:black; font-size:80%"&gt;&lt;!-- this will be replaced by a random ttyscreen from Category:Main_Page_rotation --&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; border-collapse:none"
|colspan="2" style="background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="11%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Hero|Roles]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="89%" align="center"|{{roles}}
|}

|-
|width="66%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Item]]s&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}

|rowspan="2" width="33%" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F;" align="center"|
&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Monster]]s&lt;/b&gt;
&lt;div class="ttymap"&gt;{{Monsters/expanded}}&lt;/div&gt;

|-
|width="66%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}

|}
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__</text>
      <sha1>h9sz0jcizq967wpmcuhh2aju2x9no6i</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>92130</id>
      <parentid>92129</parentid>
      <timestamp>2015-02-05T17:22:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>might as well bump to forum box count up to 10</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3295">&lt;div style="width: 33%; float:right"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-news"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-forum"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Forum:Watercooler|}} start new topic]&lt;/div&gt;
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Active discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=true
count=10
mode=list
omit=Forum:
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005.
We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.

&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 33%; padding-right: 5px;"&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;!-- no space here! --&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting-rumor"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|Be careful! New moon tonight.]]'''
|4='''[[Time|You are lucky! Full moon tonight.]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||''"{{random true rumor}}"''}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&lt;div&gt;'''[[Time|Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.]]'''&lt;/div&gt;}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-featured"&gt;
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-ttyscreen" style="margin-top:5px; vertical-align: top; text-align:center; overflow-x:auto; width:100%; background:black; font-size:80%"&gt;&lt;!-- this will be replaced by a random ttyscreen from Category:Main_Page_rotation --&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; border-collapse:none"
|colspan="2" style="background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="11%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Hero|Roles]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="89%" align="center"|{{roles}}
|}

|-
|width="66%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Item]]s&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}

|rowspan="2" width="33%" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F;" align="center"|
&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Monster]]s&lt;/b&gt;
&lt;div class="ttymap"&gt;{{Monsters/expanded}}&lt;/div&gt;

|-
|width="66%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}

|}
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__</text>
      <sha1>qvbxtnqeojkx495c2rxw0xlrp9k9t35</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>92548</id>
      <parentid>92130</parentid>
      <timestamp>2015-02-26T18:33:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>209.151.236.12</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>made "turn back now" a link.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3335">&lt;div style="width: 33%; float:right"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so &lt;a href="javascript:history.back()"&gt;turn back&lt;/a&gt; now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-news"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-forum"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Forum:Watercooler|}} start new topic]&lt;/div&gt;
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Active discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=true
count=10
mode=list
omit=Forum:
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005.
We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.

&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 33%; padding-right: 5px;"&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;!-- no space here! --&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting-rumor"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|Be careful! New moon tonight.]]'''
|4='''[[Time|You are lucky! Full moon tonight.]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||''"{{random true rumor}}"''}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&lt;div&gt;'''[[Time|Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.]]'''&lt;/div&gt;}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-featured"&gt;
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-ttyscreen" style="margin-top:5px; vertical-align: top; text-align:center; overflow-x:auto; width:100%; background:black; font-size:80%"&gt;&lt;!-- this will be replaced by a random ttyscreen from Category:Main_Page_rotation --&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; border-collapse:none"
|colspan="2" style="background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="11%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Hero|Roles]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="89%" align="center"|{{roles}}
|}

|-
|width="66%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Item]]s&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}

|rowspan="2" width="33%" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F;" align="center"|
&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Monster]]s&lt;/b&gt;
&lt;div class="ttymap"&gt;{{Monsters/expanded}}&lt;/div&gt;

|-
|width="66%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}

|}
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__</text>
      <sha1>dr1p311e6en2zwq1txzuxtvcpjglo55</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>92549</id>
      <parentid>92548</parentid>
      <timestamp>2015-02-26T18:34:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>209.151.236.12</ip>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3336">&lt;div style="width: 33%; float:right"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so 
&lt;a href="javascript:history.back()"&gt;turn back&lt;/a&gt; now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-news"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-forum"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Forum:Watercooler|}} start new topic]&lt;/div&gt;
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Active discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=true
count=10
mode=list
omit=Forum:
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005.
We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.

&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 33%; padding-right: 5px;"&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;!-- no space here! --&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting-rumor"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|Be careful! New moon tonight.]]'''
|4='''[[Time|You are lucky! Full moon tonight.]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||''"{{random true rumor}}"''}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&lt;div&gt;'''[[Time|Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.]]'''&lt;/div&gt;}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-featured"&gt;
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-ttyscreen" style="margin-top:5px; vertical-align: top; text-align:center; overflow-x:auto; width:100%; background:black; font-size:80%"&gt;&lt;!-- this will be replaced by a random ttyscreen from Category:Main_Page_rotation --&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; border-collapse:none"
|colspan="2" style="background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="11%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Hero|Roles]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="89%" align="center"|{{roles}}
|}

|-
|width="66%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Item]]s&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}

|rowspan="2" width="33%" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F;" align="center"|
&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Monster]]s&lt;/b&gt;
&lt;div class="ttymap"&gt;{{Monsters/expanded}}&lt;/div&gt;

|-
|width="66%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}

|}
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__</text>
      <sha1>ap308b5c2eukvmrdfxc1q0kt8szie3l</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>92550</id>
      <parentid>92549</parentid>
      <timestamp>2015-02-26T18:35:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>209.151.236.12</ip>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3334">&lt;div style="width: 33%; float:right"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so 
&lt;a href=javascript:history.go(-1)&gt;turn&lt;/a&gt; back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-news"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-forum"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Forum:Watercooler|}} start new topic]&lt;/div&gt;
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Active discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=true
count=10
mode=list
omit=Forum:
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005.
We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.

&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 33%; padding-right: 5px;"&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;!-- no space here! --&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting-rumor"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|Be careful! New moon tonight.]]'''
|4='''[[Time|You are lucky! Full moon tonight.]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||''"{{random true rumor}}"''}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&lt;div&gt;'''[[Time|Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.]]'''&lt;/div&gt;}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-featured"&gt;
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-ttyscreen" style="margin-top:5px; vertical-align: top; text-align:center; overflow-x:auto; width:100%; background:black; font-size:80%"&gt;&lt;!-- this will be replaced by a random ttyscreen from Category:Main_Page_rotation --&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; border-collapse:none"
|colspan="2" style="background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="11%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Hero|Roles]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="89%" align="center"|{{roles}}
|}

|-
|width="66%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Item]]s&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}

|rowspan="2" width="33%" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F;" align="center"|
&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Monster]]s&lt;/b&gt;
&lt;div class="ttymap"&gt;{{Monsters/expanded}}&lt;/div&gt;

|-
|width="66%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}

|}
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>92551</id>
      <parentid>92550</parentid>
      <timestamp>2015-02-26T18:35:37Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>209.151.236.12</ip>
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      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3295">&lt;div style="width: 33%; float:right"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-news"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-forum"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Forum:Watercooler|}} start new topic]&lt;/div&gt;
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Active discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=true
count=10
mode=list
omit=Forum:
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005.
We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.

&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 33%; padding-right: 5px;"&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;!-- no space here! --&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting-rumor"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|Be careful! New moon tonight.]]'''
|4='''[[Time|You are lucky! Full moon tonight.]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||''"{{random true rumor}}"''}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&lt;div&gt;'''[[Time|Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.]]'''&lt;/div&gt;}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-featured"&gt;
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-ttyscreen" style="margin-top:5px; vertical-align: top; text-align:center; overflow-x:auto; width:100%; background:black; font-size:80%"&gt;&lt;!-- this will be replaced by a random ttyscreen from Category:Main_Page_rotation --&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; border-collapse:none"
|colspan="2" style="background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="11%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Hero|Roles]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="89%" align="center"|{{roles}}
|}

|-
|width="66%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Item]]s&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}

|rowspan="2" width="33%" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F;" align="center"|
&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Monster]]s&lt;/b&gt;
&lt;div class="ttymap"&gt;{{Monsters/expanded}}&lt;/div&gt;

|-
|width="66%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish|Wishing]]
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}

|}
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__</text>
      <sha1>qvbxtnqeojkx495c2rxw0xlrp9k9t35</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>93146</id>
      <parentid>92551</parentid>
      <timestamp>2015-04-07T21:38:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>108.206.56.60</ip>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3290">&lt;div style="width: 33%; float:right"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-news"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-forum"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Forum:Watercooler|}} start new topic]&lt;/div&gt;
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Active discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=true
count=10
mode=list
omit=Forum:
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005.
We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.

&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 33%; padding-right: 5px;"&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;!-- no space here! --&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting-rumor"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|Be careful! New moon tonight.]]'''
|4='''[[Time|You are lucky! Full moon tonight.]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||''"{{random true rumor}}"''}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&lt;div&gt;'''[[Time|Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.]]'''&lt;/div&gt;}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-featured"&gt;
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-ttyscreen" style="margin-top:5px; vertical-align: top; text-align:center; overflow-x:auto; width:100%; background:black; font-size:80%"&gt;&lt;!-- this will be replaced by a random ttyscreen from Category:Main_Page_rotation --&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; border-collapse:none"
|colspan="2" style="background:#EEEEFF; border:2px solid #BBBBFF;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="11%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Hero|Roles]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="89%" align="center"|{{roles}}
|}

|-
|width="66%" style="background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Item]]s&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}

|rowspan="2" width="33%" style="background:#E7FFDF; border:2px solid #8FFF6F;" align="center"|
&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Monster]]s&lt;/b&gt;
&lt;div class="ttymap"&gt;{{Monsters/expanded}}&lt;/div&gt;

|-
|width="66%" style="background:#F5EEFD; border:2px solid #CEA8F4;"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish]]ing
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}

|}
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__</text>
      <sha1>96o3oiwsgopv4v43gkj9x1iovxxrqsz</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>108451</id>
      <parentid>93146</parentid>
      <timestamp>2017-12-15T17:06:42Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Phol ende wodan</username>
        <id>4000693</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Convert hardcoded styles to ids with the same CSS rules, so custom themes can override them</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3180">&lt;div style="width: 33%; float:right"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-news"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-forum"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Forum:Watercooler|}} start new topic]&lt;/div&gt;
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Active discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=true
count=10
mode=list
omit=Forum:
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005.
We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.

&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 33%; padding-right: 5px;"&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;!-- no space here! --&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting-rumor"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|Be careful! New moon tonight.]]'''
|4='''[[Time|You are lucky! Full moon tonight.]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||''"{{random true rumor}}"''}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&lt;div&gt;'''[[Time|Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.]]'''&lt;/div&gt;}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-featured"&gt;
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-ttyscreen" style="margin-top:5px; vertical-align: top; text-align:center; overflow-x:auto; width:100%; background:black; font-size:80%"&gt;&lt;!-- this will be replaced by a random ttyscreen from Category:Main_Page_rotation --&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; border-collapse:none"
|colspan="2" id="mainpage-role-list"|

{|width="100%"
|width="11%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Hero|Roles]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="89%" align="center"|{{roles}}
|}

|-
|width="66%" id="mainpage-objclass-list"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Item]]s&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}

|rowspan="2" width="33%" id="mainpage-monster-list" align="center"|
&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Monster]]s&lt;/b&gt;
&lt;div class="ttymap"&gt;{{Monsters/expanded}}&lt;/div&gt;

|-
|width="66%" id="mainpage-indepth-list"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish]]ing
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}

|}
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__</text>
      <sha1>ce5f9h5p8x8i5reylgbd5zsp9jmpmi7</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>125496</id>
      <parentid>108451</parentid>
      <timestamp>2019-03-18T03:57:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Qingxian555</username>
        <id>4001104</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Qingxian555 moved page [[Main Page]] to [[File talk:Main Page]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3180">&lt;div style="width: 33%; float:right"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-news"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-forum"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Forum:Watercooler|}} start new topic]&lt;/div&gt;
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Active discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=true
count=10
mode=list
omit=Forum:
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005.
We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.

&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 33%; padding-right: 5px;"&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;!-- no space here! --&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting-rumor"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|Be careful! New moon tonight.]]'''
|4='''[[Time|You are lucky! Full moon tonight.]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||''"{{random true rumor}}"''}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&lt;div&gt;'''[[Time|Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.]]'''&lt;/div&gt;}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-featured"&gt;
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-ttyscreen" style="margin-top:5px; vertical-align: top; text-align:center; overflow-x:auto; width:100%; background:black; font-size:80%"&gt;&lt;!-- this will be replaced by a random ttyscreen from Category:Main_Page_rotation --&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; border-collapse:none"
|colspan="2" id="mainpage-role-list"|

{|width="100%"
|width="11%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Hero|Roles]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="89%" align="center"|{{roles}}
|}

|-
|width="66%" id="mainpage-objclass-list"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Item]]s&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}

|rowspan="2" width="33%" id="mainpage-monster-list" align="center"|
&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Monster]]s&lt;/b&gt;
&lt;div class="ttymap"&gt;{{Monsters/expanded}}&lt;/div&gt;

|-
|width="66%" id="mainpage-indepth-list"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish]]ing
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}

|}
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__</text>
      <sha1>ce5f9h5p8x8i5reylgbd5zsp9jmpmi7</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>125498</id>
      <parentid>125496</parentid>
      <timestamp>2019-03-18T03:59:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Qingxian555</username>
        <id>4001104</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Qingxian555 moved page [[File talk:Main Page]] to [[Main Page]] over redirect</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3180">&lt;div style="width: 33%; float:right"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-news"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-forum"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Forum:Watercooler|}} start new topic]&lt;/div&gt;
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Active discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=true
count=10
mode=list
omit=Forum:
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005.
We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.

&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 33%; padding-right: 5px;"&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;!-- no space here! --&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting-rumor"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|Be careful! New moon tonight.]]'''
|4='''[[Time|You are lucky! Full moon tonight.]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||''"{{random true rumor}}"''}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&lt;div&gt;'''[[Time|Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.]]'''&lt;/div&gt;}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-featured"&gt;
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-ttyscreen" style="margin-top:5px; vertical-align: top; text-align:center; overflow-x:auto; width:100%; background:black; font-size:80%"&gt;&lt;!-- this will be replaced by a random ttyscreen from Category:Main_Page_rotation --&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; border-collapse:none"
|colspan="2" id="mainpage-role-list"|

{|width="100%"
|width="11%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Hero|Roles]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="89%" align="center"|{{roles}}
|}

|-
|width="66%" id="mainpage-objclass-list"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Item]]s&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}

|rowspan="2" width="33%" id="mainpage-monster-list" align="center"|
&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Monster]]s&lt;/b&gt;
&lt;div class="ttymap"&gt;{{Monsters/expanded}}&lt;/div&gt;

|-
|width="66%" id="mainpage-indepth-list"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish]]ing
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}

|}
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__</text>
      <sha1>ce5f9h5p8x8i5reylgbd5zsp9jmpmi7</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>125502</id>
      <parentid>125498</parentid>
      <timestamp>2019-03-18T14:19:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Bcode</username>
        <id>4000180</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Protected "[[Main Page]]": High traffic page: hrm, isn't this supposed to be protected already? let's see if this fixes it ([Edit=Allow only autoconfirmed users] (indefinite) [Move=Allow only administrators] (indefinite))</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3180">&lt;div style="width: 33%; float:right"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt;'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-news"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-forum"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Forum:Watercooler|}} start new topic]&lt;/div&gt;
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Active discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=true
count=10
mode=list
omit=Forum:
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005.
We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.

&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 33%; padding-right: 5px;"&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;!-- no space here! --&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting-rumor"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|Be careful! New moon tonight.]]'''
|4='''[[Time|You are lucky! Full moon tonight.]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||''"{{random true rumor}}"''}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&lt;div&gt;'''[[Time|Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.]]'''&lt;/div&gt;}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-featured"&gt;
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-ttyscreen" style="margin-top:5px; vertical-align: top; text-align:center; overflow-x:auto; width:100%; background:black; font-size:80%"&gt;&lt;!-- this will be replaced by a random ttyscreen from Category:Main_Page_rotation --&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; border-collapse:none"
|colspan="2" id="mainpage-role-list"|

{|width="100%"
|width="11%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Hero|Roles]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="89%" align="center"|{{roles}}
|}

|-
|width="66%" id="mainpage-objclass-list"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Item]]s&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}

|rowspan="2" width="33%" id="mainpage-monster-list" align="center"|
&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Monster]]s&lt;/b&gt;
&lt;div class="ttymap"&gt;{{Monsters/expanded}}&lt;/div&gt;

|-
|width="66%" id="mainpage-indepth-list"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish]]ing
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}

|}
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__</text>
      <sha1>ce5f9h5p8x8i5reylgbd5zsp9jmpmi7</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>125874</id>
      <parentid>125502</parentid>
      <timestamp>2019-05-14T12:35:37Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>TK</username>
        <id>4001077</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Strategy page should be easy for new players to find</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3264">&lt;div style="width: 33%; float:right"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt; Otherwise, consider taking a look at the basic [[Standard strategy|strategy]] page.'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-news"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-forum"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Forum:Watercooler|}} start new topic]&lt;/div&gt;
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Active discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=true
count=10
mode=list
omit=Forum:
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005.
We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.

&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 33%; padding-right: 5px;"&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;!-- no space here! --&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting-rumor"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|Be careful! New moon tonight.]]'''
|4='''[[Time|You are lucky! Full moon tonight.]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||''"{{random true rumor}}"''}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&lt;div&gt;'''[[Time|Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.]]'''&lt;/div&gt;}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-featured"&gt;
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-ttyscreen" style="margin-top:5px; vertical-align: top; text-align:center; overflow-x:auto; width:100%; background:black; font-size:80%"&gt;&lt;!-- this will be replaced by a random ttyscreen from Category:Main_Page_rotation --&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; border-collapse:none"
|colspan="2" id="mainpage-role-list"|

{|width="100%"
|width="11%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Hero|Roles]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="89%" align="center"|{{roles}}
|}

|-
|width="66%" id="mainpage-objclass-list"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Item]]s&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}

|rowspan="2" width="33%" id="mainpage-monster-list" align="center"|
&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Monster]]s&lt;/b&gt;
&lt;div class="ttymap"&gt;{{Monsters/expanded}}&lt;/div&gt;

|-
|width="66%" id="mainpage-indepth-list"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish]]ing
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}

|}
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__</text>
      <sha1>tkbti90pxq4qmfs51ji5p7vcpovhxg1</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>157323</id>
      <parentid>125874</parentid>
      <timestamp>2023-11-22T16:16:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>test</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3265">&lt;div style="width: 33%; float:right"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt; Otherwise, consider taking a look at the basic [[Standard strategy|strategy]] page.'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-news"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-forum"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Forum:Watercooler|}} start new topic]&lt;/div&gt;
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Active discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=true
count=10
mode=list
omit=Forum:
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005.
We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles.

&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 33%; padding-right: 5px;"&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;!-- no space here! --&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting-rumor"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|Be careful! New moon tonight.]]'''
|4='''[[Time|You are lucky! Full moon tonight.]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||''"{{random true rumor}}"''}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&lt;div&gt;'''[[Time|Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.]]'''&lt;/div&gt;}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-featured"&gt;
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-ttyscreen" style="margin-top:5px; vertical-align: top; text-align:center; overflow-x:auto; width:100%; background:black; font-size:80%"&gt;&lt;!-- this will be replaced by a random ttyscreen from Category:Main_Page_rotation  --&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; border-collapse:none"
|colspan="2" id="mainpage-role-list"|

{|width="100%"
|width="11%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Hero|Roles]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="89%" align="center"|{{roles}}
|}

|-
|width="66%" id="mainpage-objclass-list"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Item]]s&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}

|rowspan="2" width="33%" id="mainpage-monster-list" align="center"|
&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Monster]]s&lt;/b&gt;
&lt;div class="ttymap"&gt;{{Monsters/expanded}}&lt;/div&gt;

|-
|width="66%" id="mainpage-indepth-list"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish]]ing
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}

|}
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__</text>
      <sha1>8lnq5pz4rm873o96z0ijt281hheypt7</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>190879</id>
      <parentid>157323</parentid>
      <timestamp>2025-07-07T03:49:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Dtype</username>
        <id>4000014</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>added download link</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3357">&lt;div style="width: 33%; float:right"&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-hide-registered"&gt;'''[[NetHackWiki]] is a [[free]] community web site for the game ''[[NetHack]]'' that anyone can edit. &lt;span style="color:red;"&gt;This wiki is one big spoiler, so turn back now if you want to figure things out for yourself.&lt;/span&gt; Otherwise, consider taking a look at the basic [[Standard strategy|strategy]] page.'''&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-news"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Template:News|action=edit}} edit]&lt;/div&gt;
===News===
{{News}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-forum"&gt;
&lt;div style="float:right; vertical-align:sub; font-size:90%;"&gt;[{{fullurl:Forum:Watercooler|}} start new topic]&lt;/div&gt;
===[[Forum:Watercooler|Active discussions]]===
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;forum&gt;
namespace=Forum
category=Watercooler
timestamp=true
shownamespace=true
historylink=true
cache=true
count=10
mode=list
omit=Forum:
addlasteditor=false
addlastedit=false
&lt;/forum&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

This [[wiki]] was founded on 11 October 2005.
We have '''[[Special:Statistics|{{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}]]''' articles. You can [[NetHackWiki:Download|download this wiki]] for archive or creating a local mirror.

&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div style="margin-right: 33%; padding-right: 5px;"&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting"&gt;
'''Hello&lt;!-- no space here! --&gt;&lt;span id="mainpage-greet-username"&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, welcome to NetHackWiki!'''
&lt;div id="mainpage-greeting-rumor"&gt;{{#switch:{{moonphasenum}}
|0='''[[Time|Be careful! New moon tonight.]]'''
|4='''[[Time|You are lucky! Full moon tonight.]]'''
|#default={{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13||''"{{random true rumor}}"''}}
}}{{#ifeq:{{#time:w/j}}|5/13|&lt;div&gt;'''[[Time|Watch out! Bad things can happen on Friday the 13th.]]'''&lt;/div&gt;}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-featured"&gt;
&lt;!--{{FA|{{#time:F}}}} {{FA|November}}--&gt;{{FA|{{#time:m}}}}
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;div id="mainpage-ttyscreen" style="margin-top:5px; vertical-align: top; text-align:center; overflow-x:auto; width:100%; background:black; font-size:80%"&gt;&lt;!-- this will be replaced by a random ttyscreen from Category:Main_Page_rotation  --&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
{|width="100%" style="margin-top:5px; border-collapse:none"
|colspan="2" id="mainpage-role-list"|

{|width="100%"
|width="11%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Hero|Roles]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="89%" align="center"|{{roles}}
|}

|-
|width="66%" id="mainpage-objclass-list"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Item]]s&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
* {{cyan|"}} [[Amulet]]s
* {{brown|)}} [[Weapon]]s
* {{cyan|[}} [[Armor]]
* {{brown|%}} [[Comestible]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{green|!}} [[Potion]]s
* {{white|?}} [[Scroll]]s
* {{yellow|/}} [[Wand]]s
* {{red|&lt;nowiki&gt;=&lt;/nowiki&gt;}} [[Ring]]s
|width="28%"|
* {{magenta|+}} [[Spellbook]]s
* {{lightgray|*}} [[Gem]]s
* {{brown|(}} [[Tool]]s
* {{white|`}} [[Statue]]s
|}

|rowspan="2" width="33%" id="mainpage-monster-list" align="center"|
&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[Monster]]s&lt;/b&gt;
&lt;div class="ttymap"&gt;{{Monsters/expanded}}&lt;/div&gt;

|-
|width="66%" id="mainpage-indepth-list"|

{|width="100%"
|width="16%"|&lt;b style="font-size:1.17em"&gt;[[:Category:Articles|In-depth]]&lt;/b&gt;
|width="28%"|
*[[Artifact]]s
*[[Quest]]s
*[[Mazes of Menace]]
*[[Property|Intrinsics]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Attribute]]s
*[[Dungeon feature]]s
*[[Conduct]]s
*[[Religion]]
|width="28%"|
*[[Identification|Identifying]]
*[[Wish]]ing
*[[Strategy]]
*[[Sound]]s
|}

|}
__NOTOC__ __NOEDITSECTION__</text>
      <sha1>0u2xwti36w2b833dw7w6rm3h6v1lljg</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User:Sgeo</title>
    <ns>2</ns>
    <id>6</id>
    <revision>
      <id>173</id>
      <timestamp>2005-10-11T01:02:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Sgeo</username>
        <id>729</id>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="25">Known on Freenode as Sgep</text>
      <sha1>s6o6m69t2az8kn2r7n1cvlkah6160vp</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>34499</id>
      <parentid>173</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-07-29T18:32:24Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Sgeo</username>
        <id>729</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Haven't been Sgep for a while.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="31">(Absentee) Founder of Wikihack.</text>
      <sha1>kky0l8zrj1kfdy0b9wjmxzj65z0ap7b</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>54133</id>
      <parentid>34499</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T18:43:24Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Text replace - "Wikihack" to "NetHackWiki"</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="34">(Absentee) Founder of NetHackWiki.</text>
      <sha1>cnobbrdcnxipqulf44mtt85uktw3u43</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>NetHackWiki:Contributors to Rodney donating to the Wiki</title>
    <ns>4</ns>
    <id>7</id>
    <revision>
      <id>1</id>
      <timestamp>2005-10-11T01:09:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Sgeo</username>
        <id>729</id>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="13">[[SpeedEvil]]</text>
      <sha1>akw44szucmtliujcdh4pyu7d0lqau9q</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2</id>
      <parentid>1</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-10-11T01:10:13Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Sgeo</username>
        <id>729</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="108">Add your name to the list to allow things you've contributed to Rodney appear in the wiki
---
*[[SpeedEvil]]</text>
      <sha1>lfuiukd791akwvkxn9aju0xg4nx587m</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>3</id>
      <parentid>2</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-10-11T01:11:14Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Sgeo</username>
        <id>729</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="109">Add your name to the list to allow things you've contributed to Rodney appear in the wiki
----
*[[SpeedEvil]]</text>
      <sha1>6qba3lit37opm3ebdyu7iexvhq8u8y6</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>4</id>
      <parentid>3</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-10-11T21:41:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Angela</username>
        <id>54</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>expand a bit to clarify. please add the url of "rodney"</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="345">Add your name to the list to allow things you've contributed to Rodney appear in the wiki.

You agree that you hold the copyright to any content you have contributed to [http://url Rodney] and that you agree to license this content under the terms of the [http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html GNU Free Documentation License].
----
*[[SpeedEvil]]</text>
      <sha1>192acnypwhzryuwo47dxtq6ngtkra88</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5</id>
      <parentid>4</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-10-11T21:51:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Sgeo</username>
        <id>729</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Added Rodney's URL</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="374">Add your name to the list to allow things you've contributed to Rodney appear in the wiki.

You agree that you hold the copyright to any content you have contributed to [http://alt.org/nethack/rodney-learn.php Rodney] and that you agree to license this content under the terms of the [http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html GNU Free Documentation License].
----
*[[SpeedEvil]]</text>
      <sha1>bls197gglwehw022vs8flem8yp4zeme</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>34</id>
      <parentid>5</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-10-12T03:00:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>24.148.129.122</ip>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="381">Add your name to the list to allow things you've contributed to Rodney appear in the wiki.

You agree that you hold the copyright to any content you have contributed to [http://alt.org/nethack/rodney-learn.php Rodney] and that you agree to license this content under the terms of the [http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html GNU Free Documentation License].
----
*[[SpeedEvil]]
PsyMar</text>
      <sha1>1evf6kbi83onvjypne25yot2o9xauxw</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>36</id>
      <parentid>34</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-10-28T07:08:59Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>207.225.166.13</ip>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="391">Add your name to the list to allow things you've contributed to Rodney appear in the wiki.

You agree that you hold the copyright to any content you have contributed to [http://alt.org/nethack/rodney-learn.php Rodney] and that you agree to license this content under the terms of the [http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html GNU Free Documentation License].
----
*[[SpeedEvil]]
*PsyMar
*Garbled</text>
      <sha1>gsf4v2jbolrbq0nnpcspf71jlfdtd0j</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>174</id>
      <parentid>36</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-10-31T20:12:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Garbled</username>
        <id>292</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>add mucknert per his permission via IRC</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="401">Add your name to the list to allow things you've contributed to Rodney appear in the wiki.

You agree that you hold the copyright to any content you have contributed to [http://alt.org/nethack/rodney-learn.php Rodney] and that you agree to license this content under the terms of the [http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html GNU Free Documentation License].
----
*[[SpeedEvil]]
*PsyMar
*Garbled
*Mucknert</text>
      <sha1>61fd7scofv6ox1dcjb0h2de6nutoqn4</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>4549</id>
      <parentid>174</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-06T04:38:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eidolos</username>
        <id>239</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Added self, fixed broken link.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="434">Add your name to the list to allow things you've contributed to [[Rodney]] appear in the wiki.

You agree that you hold the copyright to any content you have contributed to [http://alt.org/nethack/Rodney/learn.php Rodney] and that you agree to license this content under the terms of the [http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html GNU Free Documentation License].

----

* SpeedEvil
* PsyMar
* Garbled
* Mucknert
* [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]]</text>
      <sha1>i6xky9n9r2r83b10lic7ddqah2tqx3b</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>4557</id>
      <parentid>4549</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-06T12:35:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Raxvulpine</username>
        <id>678</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Sure, why not.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="467">Add your name to the list to allow things you've contributed to [[Rodney]] appear in the wiki.

You agree that you hold the copyright to any content you have contributed to [http://alt.org/nethack/Rodney/learn.php Rodney] and that you agree to license this content under the terms of the [http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html GNU Free Documentation License].

----

* SpeedEvil
* PsyMar
* Garbled
* Mucknert
* [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]]
* [[USer:Raxvulpine|Raxvulpine]]</text>
      <sha1>qdu5uvzr4o0z0i4u72fax15rez9ndfj</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>6461</id>
      <parentid>4557</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-08-04T20:08:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>GreyKnight</username>
        <id>325</id>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="500">Add your name to the list to allow things you've contributed to [[Rodney]] appear in the wiki.

You agree that you hold the copyright to any content you have contributed to [http://alt.org/nethack/Rodney/learn.php Rodney] and that you agree to license this content under the terms of the [http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html GNU Free Documentation License].

----

* SpeedEvil
* PsyMar
* Garbled
* Mucknert
* [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]]
* [[User:Raxvulpine|Raxvulpine]]
* [[User:GreyKnight|GreyKnight]]</text>
      <sha1>23e0e40remgr39535w6xq9tgvl2mhxo</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>6469</id>
      <parentid>6461</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-08-04T20:36:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>GreyKnight</username>
        <id>325</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="513">Add your name to the list to allow things you've contributed to [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] appear in the wiki.

You agree that you hold the copyright to any content you have contributed to [http://alt.org/nethack/Rodney/learn.php Rodney] and that you agree to license this content under the terms of the [http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html GNU Free Documentation License].

----

* SpeedEvil
* PsyMar
* Garbled
* Mucknert
* [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]]
* [[User:Raxvulpine|Raxvulpine]]
* [[User:GreyKnight|GreyKnight]]</text>
      <sha1>o719ufvltqokanvesa4v0bcz638g6h9</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10355</id>
      <parentid>6469</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-13T03:13:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>PsyMar</username>
        <id>656</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Linkified psymar</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="529">Add your name to the list to allow things you've contributed to [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] appear in the wiki.

You agree that you hold the copyright to any content you have contributed to [http://alt.org/nethack/Rodney/learn.php Rodney] and that you agree to license this content under the terms of the [http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html GNU Free Documentation License].

----

* SpeedEvil
* [[User:PsyMar|PsyMar]]
* Garbled
* Mucknert
* [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]]
* [[User:Raxvulpine|Raxvulpine]]
* [[User:GreyKnight|GreyKnight]]</text>
      <sha1>oh1ru8bt06xop2czdu3ywy5tzz0oulo</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>21180</id>
      <parentid>10355</parentid>
      <timestamp>2007-06-05T13:41:23Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Hellzon</username>
        <id>345</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Added me. I might have two or three stubs submitted to Rodney, after all.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="556">Add your name to the list to allow things you've contributed to [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] appear in the wiki.

You agree that you hold the copyright to any content you have contributed to [http://alt.org/nethack/Rodney/learn.php Rodney] and that you agree to license this content under the terms of the [http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html GNU Free Documentation License].

----

* SpeedEvil
* [[User:PsyMar|PsyMar]]
* Garbled
* Mucknert
* [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]]
* [[User:Raxvulpine|Raxvulpine]]
* [[User:GreyKnight|GreyKnight]]
* [[User:Hellzon|Hellzon]]</text>
      <sha1>3a3vc1bhwnnpurci25zgr59puodecyf</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>21446</id>
      <parentid>21180</parentid>
      <timestamp>2007-06-29T03:55:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>24.191.104.202</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>* [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo/Sgep]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="582">Add your name to the list to allow things you've contributed to [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] appear in the wiki.

You agree that you hold the copyright to any content you have contributed to [http://alt.org/nethack/Rodney/learn.php Rodney] and that you agree to license this content under the terms of the [http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html GNU Free Documentation License].

----

* SpeedEvil
* [[User:PsyMar|PsyMar]]
* Garbled
* Mucknert
* [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]]
* [[User:Raxvulpine|Raxvulpine]]
* [[User:GreyKnight|GreyKnight]]
* [[User:Hellzon|Hellzon]]
* [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo/Sgep]]</text>
      <sha1>ayftaykyut0dc6xie0kmipafanpzs1x</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>23198</id>
      <parentid>21446</parentid>
      <timestamp>2007-11-16T00:14:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>128.61.38.107</ip>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="593">Add your name to the list to allow things you've contributed to [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] appear in the wiki.

You agree that you hold the copyright to any content you have contributed to [http://alt.org/nethack/Rodney/learn.php Rodney] and that you agree to license this content under the terms of the [http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html GNU Free Documentation License].

----

* SpeedEvil
* [[User:PsyMar|PsyMar]]
* Garbled
* Mucknert
* [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]]
* [[User:Raxvulpine|Raxvulpine]]
* [[User:GreyKnight|GreyKnight]]
* [[User:Hellzon|Hellzon]]
* [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo/Sgep]]
* ChocoCid</text>
      <sha1>jc52c1gwh0b4xdsxmfpxc9jgxnme3lu</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>92083</id>
      <parentid>23198</parentid>
      <timestamp>2015-02-03T14:46:04Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ais523</username>
        <id>27</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>I'm happy for my Rodney content (what little there is) to be copied to the wiki</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="646">Add your name to the list to allow things you've contributed to [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] appear in the wiki.

You agree that you hold the copyright to any content you have contributed to [http://alt.org/nethack/Rodney/learn.php Rodney] and that you agree to license this content under the terms of the [http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html GNU Free Documentation License].

----

* SpeedEvil
* [[User:PsyMar|PsyMar]]
* Garbled
* Mucknert
* [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]]
* [[User:Raxvulpine|Raxvulpine]]
* [[User:GreyKnight|GreyKnight]]
* [[User:Hellzon|Hellzon]]
* [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo/Sgep]]
* ChocoCid
* [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]])</text>
      <sha1>cies0jtcmv6dfz8u15bmnvz5lz0iyhi</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>106784</id>
      <parentid>92083</parentid>
      <timestamp>2017-08-20T13:24:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Bcode</username>
        <id>4000180</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Text replacement - "http://alt.org" to "https://alt.org"</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="647">Add your name to the list to allow things you've contributed to [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] appear in the wiki.

You agree that you hold the copyright to any content you have contributed to [https://alt.org/nethack/Rodney/learn.php Rodney] and that you agree to license this content under the terms of the [http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html GNU Free Documentation License].

----

* SpeedEvil
* [[User:PsyMar|PsyMar]]
* Garbled
* Mucknert
* [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]]
* [[User:Raxvulpine|Raxvulpine]]
* [[User:GreyKnight|GreyKnight]]
* [[User:Hellzon|Hellzon]]
* [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo/Sgep]]
* ChocoCid
* [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]])</text>
      <sha1>hz3uin2qy7v9pvg7jf4w4nnh93s6o8v</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>NetHackWiki:Logo contest</title>
    <ns>4</ns>
    <id>9</id>
    <revision>
      <id>43</id>
      <timestamp>2005-10-11T01:20:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Sgeo</username>
        <id>729</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Logo contest</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="574">==Instructions==
To enter the logo contest, you must be a [[Special:Userlogin|registered user]]. Simply [[Special:Upload|upload]] an image. It must have a width of 135 pixels or less and a height of 155 pixels or less and be in PNG format. After this is done go to [http://nethack.wikicities.com/index.php?title=Wikihack:Logo_contest/vote&amp;action=edit The voting page] and between the last submission and the &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;/gallery&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag put on a new line: &lt;code&gt;Image:''filename''&lt;/code&gt; where &lt;code&gt;''filename''&lt;/code&gt; is the filename you uploaded it under.</text>
      <sha1>c3dqzog1gsamlbyve3skaeei88ivkvi</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>44</id>
      <parentid>43</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-12-10T00:35:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>{{community}}</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="589">{{community}}

==Instructions==
To enter the logo contest, you must be a [[Special:Userlogin|registered user]]. Simply [[Special:Upload|upload]] an image. It must have a width of 135 pixels or less and a height of 155 pixels or less and be in PNG format. After this is done go to [http://nethack.wikicities.com/index.php?title=Wikihack:Logo_contest/vote&amp;action=edit The voting page] and between the last submission and the &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;/gallery&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag put on a new line: &lt;code&gt;Image:''filename''&lt;/code&gt; where &lt;code&gt;''filename''&lt;/code&gt; is the filename you uploaded it under.</text>
      <sha1>nzwaqaazgm8zg89lume8lghj6ylz8jf</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>165</id>
      <parentid>44</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-12-10T00:38:01Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Instructions */ use wiki link to reach vote page (now you can read vote page without editing it)</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="538">{{community}}

==Instructions==
To enter the logo contest, you must be a [[Special:Userlogin|registered user]]. Simply [[Special:Upload|upload]] an image. It must have a width of 135 pixels or less and a height of 155 pixels or less and be in PNG format. After this is done go to [[{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}/vote|the voting page]] and between the last submission and the &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;/gallery&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag put on a new line: &lt;code&gt;Image:''filename''&lt;/code&gt; where &lt;code&gt;''filename''&lt;/code&gt; is the filename you uploaded it under.</text>
      <sha1>l3lk039r3hs3u40ptqly084sulhxc6u</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>176</id>
      <parentid>165</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-01-07T05:48:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Instructions */ wiki.png</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="621">{{community}}

==Instructions==
To enter the logo contest, you must be a [[Special:Userlogin|registered user]]. Simply [[Special:Upload|upload]] an image. It must have a width of 135 pixels or less and a height of 155 pixels or less and be in PNG format. After this is done go to [[{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}/vote|the voting page]] and between the last submission and the &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;/gallery&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag put on a new line: &lt;code&gt;Image:''filename''&lt;/code&gt; where &lt;code&gt;''filename''&lt;/code&gt; is the filename you uploaded it under.

The current logo in the upper-left corner of each page is at [[:Image:Wiki.png]].</text>
      <sha1>1rgouehdb7xb4n9blgf32h8tuvkk6wo</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>1735</id>
      <parentid>176</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-02-16T04:22:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Instructions */ '''link''' to voting page</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="738">{{community}}

=== Instructions ===
* '''[[{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}/vote|Voting page]] containing current logo submissions

To enter the logo contest, you must be a [[Special:Userlogin|registered user]]. Simply [[Special:Upload|upload]] an image. It must have a width of 135 pixels or less and a height of 155 pixels or less and be in PNG format. After this is done go to [[{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}/vote|the voting page]] and between the last submission and the &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;/gallery&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag put on a new line: &lt;code&gt;Image:''filename''&lt;/code&gt; where &lt;code&gt;''filename''&lt;/code&gt; is the filename you uploaded it under.

The current logo in the upper-left corner of each page is at [[:Image:Wiki.png]].

[[Category:Wikihack]]</text>
      <sha1>eor8w20g63ksiuzrrkugczy9j3gv3ga</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>1801</id>
      <parentid>1735</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-02-19T21:04:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The thing</username>
        <id>816</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Wikihack:Logo contest moved to Fikihack:Logo contest</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="738">{{community}}

=== Instructions ===
* '''[[{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}/vote|Voting page]] containing current logo submissions

To enter the logo contest, you must be a [[Special:Userlogin|registered user]]. Simply [[Special:Upload|upload]] an image. It must have a width of 135 pixels or less and a height of 155 pixels or less and be in PNG format. After this is done go to [[{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}/vote|the voting page]] and between the last submission and the &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;/gallery&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag put on a new line: &lt;code&gt;Image:''filename''&lt;/code&gt; where &lt;code&gt;''filename''&lt;/code&gt; is the filename you uploaded it under.

The current logo in the upper-left corner of each page is at [[:Image:Wiki.png]].

[[Category:Wikihack]]</text>
      <sha1>eor8w20g63ksiuzrrkugczy9j3gv3ga</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>1831</id>
      <parentid>1801</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-02-20T05:47:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Fikihack:Logo contest moved to Wikihack:Logo contest</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="738">{{community}}

=== Instructions ===
* '''[[{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}/vote|Voting page]] containing current logo submissions

To enter the logo contest, you must be a [[Special:Userlogin|registered user]]. Simply [[Special:Upload|upload]] an image. It must have a width of 135 pixels or less and a height of 155 pixels or less and be in PNG format. After this is done go to [[{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}/vote|the voting page]] and between the last submission and the &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;/gallery&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag put on a new line: &lt;code&gt;Image:''filename''&lt;/code&gt; where &lt;code&gt;''filename''&lt;/code&gt; is the filename you uploaded it under.

The current logo in the upper-left corner of each page is at [[:Image:Wiki.png]].

[[Category:Wikihack]]</text>
      <sha1>eor8w20g63ksiuzrrkugczy9j3gv3ga</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53374</id>
      <parentid>1831</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-10-31T21:16:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>recategorize: s/Wikihack/NethackWiki/</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="740">{{community}}

=== Instructions ===
* '''[[{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}/vote|Voting page]] containing current logo submissions

To enter the logo contest, you must be a [[Special:Userlogin|registered user]]. Simply [[Special:Upload|upload]] an image. It must have a width of 135 pixels or less and a height of 155 pixels or less and be in PNG format. After this is done go to [[{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}/vote|the voting page]] and between the last submission and the &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;/gallery&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag put on a new line: &lt;code&gt;Image:''filename''&lt;/code&gt; where &lt;code&gt;''filename''&lt;/code&gt; is the filename you uploaded it under.

The current logo in the upper-left corner of each page is at [[:Image:Wiki.png]].
[[Category:NethackWiki]]</text>
      <sha1>j2sc7xltr6j1p5qhifkfsnw5dizfcio</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>54001</id>
      <parentid>53374</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T18:05:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Text replace - "NethackWiki" to "NetHackWiki"</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="740">{{community}}

=== Instructions ===
* '''[[{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}/vote|Voting page]] containing current logo submissions

To enter the logo contest, you must be a [[Special:Userlogin|registered user]]. Simply [[Special:Upload|upload]] an image. It must have a width of 135 pixels or less and a height of 155 pixels or less and be in PNG format. After this is done go to [[{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}/vote|the voting page]] and between the last submission and the &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;/gallery&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag put on a new line: &lt;code&gt;Image:''filename''&lt;/code&gt; where &lt;code&gt;''filename''&lt;/code&gt; is the filename you uploaded it under.

The current logo in the upper-left corner of each page is at [[:Image:Wiki.png]].
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]</text>
      <sha1>lar3yvt6n0o09yoci4mhe8dbcws0wk8</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>85380</id>
      <parentid>54001</parentid>
      <timestamp>2013-05-27T23:15:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>was 2005</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="822">{{community}}
''The contest took place in 2006. This article is kept for historical reasons.'' 

=== Instructions ===
* '''[[{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}/vote|Voting page]] containing current logo submissions

To enter the logo contest, you must be a [[Special:Userlogin|registered user]]. Simply [[Special:Upload|upload]] an image. It must have a width of 135 pixels or less and a height of 155 pixels or less and be in PNG format. After this is done go to [[{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}/vote|the voting page]] and between the last submission and the &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;/gallery&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag put on a new line: &lt;code&gt;Image:''filename''&lt;/code&gt; where &lt;code&gt;''filename''&lt;/code&gt; is the filename you uploaded it under.

The current logo in the upper-left corner of each page is at [[:Image:Wiki.png]].
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]</text>
      <sha1>mi43ftcgmqwdc2f1f62mcvcgidc1qwf</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>NetHackWiki:Logo contest/vote</title>
    <ns>4</ns>
    <id>10</id>
    <revision>
      <id>132</id>
      <timestamp>2005-10-11T01:21:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Sgeo</username>
        <id>729</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Logo contest</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="149">==Instructions==
To vote, click on the image you want, edit the page, and add &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;#~~~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; at the bottom.
&lt;gallery&gt;
&lt;/gallery&gt;</text>
      <sha1>rn8nuj52jqzy4skebuz5w6dqkruim2w</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>177</id>
      <parentid>132</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-12-23T17:20:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>first entry is an enlarged NetHack screenshot</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="180">==Instructions==
To vote, click on the image you want, edit the page, and add &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;#~~~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; at the bottom.
&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:wikihack-cursed-logo.png
&lt;/gallery&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ix6uuyita887senrhavda1z1rlmlj6i</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>1781</id>
      <parentid>177</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-02-19T20:48:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The thing</username>
        <id>816</id>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="180">==Instructions==
To vote, click on the image you want, edit the page, and add &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;#~~~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; at the bottom.
&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:fikihack-cursed-logo.png
&lt;/gallery&gt;</text>
      <sha1>64qv4b5ypcw9gtwaorm7mgz05iyln7w</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>1782</id>
      <parentid>1781</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-02-19T20:48:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The thing</username>
        <id>816</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Wikihack:Logo contest/vote moved to Fikihack:Logo contest/vote</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="180">==Instructions==
To vote, click on the image you want, edit the page, and add &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;#~~~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; at the bottom.
&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:fikihack-cursed-logo.png
&lt;/gallery&gt;</text>
      <sha1>64qv4b5ypcw9gtwaorm7mgz05iyln7w</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>1812</id>
      <parentid>1782</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-02-19T21:14:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The thing</username>
        <id>816</id>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="180">==Instructions==
To vote, click on the image you want, edit the page, and add &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;#~~~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; at the bottom.
&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:wikihack-cursed-logo.png
&lt;/gallery&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ix6uuyita887senrhavda1z1rlmlj6i</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>1823</id>
      <parentid>1812</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-02-20T05:46:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Fikihack:Logo contest/vote moved to Wikihack:Logo contest/vote</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="180">==Instructions==
To vote, click on the image you want, edit the page, and add &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;#~~~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; at the bottom.
&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:wikihack-cursed-logo.png
&lt;/gallery&gt;</text>
      <sha1>ix6uuyita887senrhavda1z1rlmlj6i</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>1930</id>
      <parentid>1823</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-03-23T22:17:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>added [[Image:Wikihack_logo.png]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="204">==Instructions==
To vote, click on the image you want, edit the page, and add &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;#~~~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; at the bottom.
&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:wikihack-cursed-logo.png
Image:Wikihack_logo.png
&lt;/gallery&gt;</text>
      <sha1>0sei9hjf2pwc5soo791o6ut79y08p38</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56073</id>
      <parentid>1930</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T19:32:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Text replace - "Wikihack" to "NetHackWiki"</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="207">==Instructions==
To vote, click on the image you want, edit the page, and add &lt;code&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;#~~~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt; at the bottom.
&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:wikihack-cursed-logo.png
Image:NetHackWiki_logo.png
&lt;/gallery&gt;</text>
      <sha1>r5h592e4cwn4eihnlr4udxdxgf0y36x</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Template:Rodney</title>
    <ns>10</ns>
    <id>11</id>
    <revision>
      <id>106</id>
      <timestamp>2005-10-11T01:31:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Sgeo</username>
        <id>729</id>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="293">:''Some or all of the information on this page was taken from http://alt.org/nethack/rodney-learn.php with the permission of the contributor. A list of people who gave such permission is at [[Wikihack:Contributors to Rodney donating to the Wiki|Contributors to Rodney donating to the Wiki]].''</text>
      <sha1>h16i2jyjq5wsqb0ss8xbkbtsb4vhq5c</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>178</id>
      <parentid>106</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-12-13T01:21:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>box like in [[Template:fairuse]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="434">{| align="CENTER" style="width: 80%; background-color: #F1F1DE; border:2px solid #999966; padding: 1em;"
|''Some or all of the information on this page was taken from http://alt.org/nethack/rodney-learn.php with the permission of the contributor. A list of people who gave such permission is at [[Wikihack:Contributors to Rodney donating to the Wiki|Contributors to Rodney donating to the Wiki]].''
|}
[[Category:Rodney|{{PAGENAME}}]]</text>
      <sha1>dne84fazaelnlt0zmqc0da3pnvthgsn</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56126</id>
      <parentid>178</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T19:34:48Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Text replace - "Wikihack" to "NetHackWiki"</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="437">{| align="CENTER" style="width: 80%; background-color: #F1F1DE; border:2px solid #999966; padding: 1em;"
|''Some or all of the information on this page was taken from http://alt.org/nethack/rodney-learn.php with the permission of the contributor. A list of people who gave such permission is at [[NetHackWiki:Contributors to Rodney donating to the Wiki|Contributors to Rodney donating to the Wiki]].''
|}
[[Category:Rodney|{{PAGENAME}}]]</text>
      <sha1>5khqk2qyl050irisimcdt0mnwofifm5</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56716</id>
      <parentid>56126</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-15T16:40:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>use a div class=license_rodney instead of a table.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="364">&lt;div class="license_rodney"&gt;
''Some or all of the information on this page was taken from http://alt.org/nethack/rodney-learn.php with the permission of the contributor. A list of people who gave such permission is at [[NetHackWiki:Contributors to Rodney donating to the Wiki|Contributors to Rodney donating to the Wiki]].''
&lt;/div&gt;
[[Category:Rodney|{{PAGENAME}}]]</text>
      <sha1>0pb0mixs6t1fm1jcdhmdumr2eohr6fm</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>64281</id>
      <parentid>56716</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-01-30T12:37:58Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>cat</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="431">&lt;div class="license_rodney"&gt;
''Some or all of the information on this page was taken from http://alt.org/nethack/rodney-learn.php with the permission of the contributor. A list of people who gave such permission is at [[NetHackWiki:Contributors to Rodney donating to the Wiki|Contributors to Rodney donating to the Wiki]].''
&lt;/div&gt;
[[Category:Rodney|{{PAGENAME}}]]
&lt;noinclude&gt;[[Category:License templates|{{PAGENAME}}]]&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>9rr8rvyuu3uwqucd4xujbg0vzjyuath</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>106774</id>
      <parentid>64281</parentid>
      <timestamp>2017-08-20T13:24:04Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Bcode</username>
        <id>4000180</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Text replacement - "http://alt.org" to "https://alt.org"</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="432">&lt;div class="license_rodney"&gt;
''Some or all of the information on this page was taken from https://alt.org/nethack/rodney-learn.php with the permission of the contributor. A list of people who gave such permission is at [[NetHackWiki:Contributors to Rodney donating to the Wiki|Contributors to Rodney donating to the Wiki]].''
&lt;/div&gt;
[[Category:Rodney|{{PAGENAME}}]]
&lt;noinclude&gt;[[Category:License templates|{{PAGENAME}}]]&lt;/noinclude&gt;</text>
      <sha1>1okb1z3aja0jv657ogcpmgjf84335gl</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Eyes of the Overworld</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>12</id>
    <redirect title="The Eyes of the Overworld" />
    <revision>
      <id>91</id>
      <timestamp>2005-10-11T01:34:14Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Sgeo</username>
        <id>729</id>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="129">This vision lets you see every square, that would be illuminated by a magic lamp, even if there are walls in the way.

{{rodney}}</text>
      <sha1>p30ly70i5ex34l3rsjfwy9a8rggevhl</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>179</id>
      <parentid>91</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-12-10T22:26:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>[[Category:Articles]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="152">This vision lets you see every square, that would be illuminated by a magic lamp, even if there are walls in the way.

{{rodney}}

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>i13iembig9g8w5227xl9ivuc5mxz4qa</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2461</id>
      <parentid>179</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-04-23T19:02:42Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>This is an artifact.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="225">The '''Eyes of the Overworld''' is an [[artifact]]. Equip it to provide vision that lets you see every square, that would be illuminated by a magic lamp, even if there are walls in the way.

{{rodney}}

[[Category:Artifacts]]</text>
      <sha1>iopazw5bpv6hih82v0ixb22cxl1unis</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>4548</id>
      <parentid>2461</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-06T04:36:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eidolos</username>
        <id>239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Actual request for deletion.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="333">{{delete|Superceded by [[The Eyes of the Overworld]] --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 04:36, 6 July 2006 (UTC)}}

The '''Eyes of the Overworld''' is an [[artifact]]. Equip it to provide vision that lets you see every square, that would be illuminated by a magic lamp, even if there are walls in the way.

{{rodney}}

[[Category:Artifacts]]</text>
      <sha1>mawaklrq66x9t5vj6kpm2mwxnu93aof</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>4562</id>
      <parentid>4548</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-06T13:19:58Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>superseded; redirecting to [[The Eyes of the Overworld]]; it seems we are using "The" for unique items and quest artifacts, but not for artifact weapons</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="39">#REDIRECT [[The Eyes of the Overworld]]</text>
      <sha1>t2aetrzhs2rvmebetyokpqjdfqto1dl</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>User:Greentryst</title>
    <ns>2</ns>
    <id>13</id>
    <revision>
      <id>180</id>
      <timestamp>2005-10-11T13:29:14Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Greentryst</username>
        <id>322</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>user page begun</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="294">Hello! I am Dan Johnson, known on IRC as Greentryst. I am a [[Wikipedia:User:Greentryst|Wikipedia editor]].

I am a player on the [http://nethack.alt.org alt.org] public NetHack server, as of [[2005-10-05]]. I was introduced to alt.org, and brought back into NetHack, by [[User:Kjoery|Kjoery]].</text>
      <sha1>6oyzfl3fvy5kq3ng4s6kbmti9rm7ub2</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>NetHackWiki:Copyrights</title>
    <ns>4</ns>
    <id>14</id>
    <revision>
      <id>40</id>
      <timestamp>2005-10-11T21:42:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Angela</username>
        <id>54</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>{{subst:wikicities:Copyrights}}</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="220">All contributions to Wikicities are released under the [[Wikicities:Text of the GNU Free Documentation License|GNU Free Documentation License]]. See [[Wikicities:Wikicities copyrights|Wikicities copyrights]] for details.</text>
      <sha1>03nambbg1pcjxz9dq05gj2cn1k2kkww</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>70</id>
      <parentid>40</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-12-10T00:32:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>{{community}}</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="235">{{community}}

All contributions to Wikicities are released under the [[Wikicities:Text of the GNU Free Documentation License|GNU Free Documentation License]]. See [[Wikicities:Wikicities copyrights|Wikicities copyrights]] for details.</text>
      <sha1>ptarnk7c7bmjghr3jwsj7dmlk1duy82</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>103</id>
      <parentid>70</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-12-10T03:52:48Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>need NetHack copyright information; mark as {{stub}}</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="388">All contributions to Wikicities are released under the [[Wikicities:Text of the GNU Free Documentation License|GNU Free Documentation License]]. See [[Wikicities:Wikicities copyrights|Wikicities copyrights]] for details.

This wiki will contain images and quotes from NetHack itself; add NetHack copyright information here and upload a copy of the NetHack General Public License.
{{stub}}</text>
      <sha1>8dh7eu2bbs6fol0tl5rrbmye78zqk7p</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>123</id>
      <parentid>103</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-12-12T23:41:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>longer explanation of copyright; copyright of NetHack itself</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="1681">=== Copyright ===
All contributions to this wiki at Wikicities are released under the [[Wikicities:Text of the GNU Free Documentation License|GNU Free Documentation License]]. See [[Wikicities:Wikicities copyrights|Wikicities copyrights]] for details.

&lt;pre style="font-size: smaller;"&gt;
Copyright (c) 2005 Contributors
              (see History page of each article)
Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document
under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2
or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation;
with no Invariant Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover
Texts.  A copy of the license is included in the section entitled
"[[Wikicities:Text of the GNU Free Documentation License|GNU Free Documentation License]]".
&lt;/pre&gt;

For copyright of an image, see the page for that image.

=== Disclaimer ===
This wiki is not affiliated with NetHack; their official site is http://www.nethack.org

See also [[Wikicities:Wikicities disclaimers|Wikicities disclaimers]].

=== NetHack Copyright ===
This wiki contains or will contain screen shots, quotes, and source code from the NetHack game itself. The copyright of this wiki is separate from the copyright of NetHack; material from NetHack is aggregated to this wiki (see GNU Free Documentation License, section 7, "Aggregation with Independent Works").

The following copyright applies to NetHack:

&lt;pre style="font-size: smaller;"&gt;
NetHack, Copyright 1985-2003
         By Stichting Mathematisch Centrum and M. Stephenson.
         See license for details.
&lt;/pre&gt;

The license is the [[Project:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]].</text>
      <sha1>2d2isfw26sdhfjzw3sanelexa1qwzde</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>124</id>
      <parentid>123</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-12-13T21:48:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* NetHack Copyright */ slight change to words</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="1684">=== Copyright ===
All contributions to this wiki at Wikicities are released under the [[Wikicities:Text of the GNU Free Documentation License|GNU Free Documentation License]]. See [[Wikicities:Wikicities copyrights|Wikicities copyrights]] for details.

&lt;pre style="font-size: smaller;"&gt;
Copyright (c) 2005 Contributors
              (see History page of each article)
Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document
under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2
or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation;
with no Invariant Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover
Texts.  A copy of the license is included in the section entitled
"[[Wikicities:Text of the GNU Free Documentation License|GNU Free Documentation License]]".
&lt;/pre&gt;

For copyright of an image, see the page for that image.

=== Disclaimer ===
This wiki is not affiliated with NetHack; their official site is http://www.nethack.org

See also [[Wikicities:Wikicities disclaimers|Wikicities disclaimers]].

=== NetHack Copyright ===
This wiki contains or will contain screen shots and source code from the NetHack game itself. The copyright of this wiki is separate from the copyright of NetHack; material from NetHack is aggregated to this wiki (see GNU Free Documentation License, section 7, "Aggregation with Independent Works").

The following copyright applies to NetHack:

&lt;pre style="font-size: smaller;"&gt;
NetHack, Copyright 1985-2003
         By Stichting Mathematisch Centrum and M. Stephenson.
         See license for details.
&lt;/pre&gt;

The license for NetHack is the [[Project:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]].</text>
      <sha1>ecjj35fkmapck2cin6zdivh9zia7kce</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>181</id>
      <parentid>124</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-12-13T21:50:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>{{community}} (again)</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="1699">{{community}}

=== Copyright ===
All contributions to this wiki at Wikicities are released under the [[Wikicities:Text of the GNU Free Documentation License|GNU Free Documentation License]]. See [[Wikicities:Wikicities copyrights|Wikicities copyrights]] for details.

&lt;pre style="font-size: smaller;"&gt;
Copyright (c) 2005 Contributors
              (see History page of each article)
Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document
under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2
or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation;
with no Invariant Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover
Texts.  A copy of the license is included in the section entitled
"[[Wikicities:Text of the GNU Free Documentation License|GNU Free Documentation License]]".
&lt;/pre&gt;

For copyright of an image, see the page for that image.

=== Disclaimer ===
This wiki is not affiliated with NetHack; their official site is http://www.nethack.org

See also [[Wikicities:Wikicities disclaimers|Wikicities disclaimers]].

=== NetHack Copyright ===
This wiki contains or will contain screen shots and source code from the NetHack game itself. The copyright of this wiki is separate from the copyright of NetHack; material from NetHack is aggregated to this wiki (see GNU Free Documentation License, section 7, "Aggregation with Independent Works").

The following copyright applies to NetHack:

&lt;pre style="font-size: smaller;"&gt;
NetHack, Copyright 1985-2003
         By Stichting Mathematisch Centrum and M. Stephenson.
         See license for details.
&lt;/pre&gt;

The license for NetHack is the [[Project:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]].</text>
      <sha1>rv7zhh2c48q6fcfpmc4hqa3hvo3jdeg</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>1571</id>
      <parentid>181</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-01-26T03:19:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Copyright */ fixing link to GFDL in copyright message</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="1638">{{community}}

=== Copyright ===
All contributions to this wiki at Wikicities are released under the [[Wikicities:Text of the GNU Free Documentation License|GNU Free Documentation License]]. See [[Wikicities:Wikicities copyrights|Wikicities copyrights]] for details.

 Copyright (c) 2005 Contributors
               (see History page of each article)
 Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document
 under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2
 or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation;
 with no Invariant Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover
 Texts.  A copy of the license is included in the section entitled
 "[[Wikicities:Text of the GNU Free Documentation License|GNU Free Documentation License]]".

For copyright of an image, see the page for that image.

=== Disclaimer ===
This wiki is not affiliated with NetHack; their official site is http://www.nethack.org

See also [[Wikicities:Wikicities disclaimers|Wikicities disclaimers]].

=== NetHack Copyright ===
This wiki contains or will contain screen shots and source code from the NetHack game itself. The copyright of this wiki is separate from the copyright of NetHack; material from NetHack is aggregated to this wiki (see GNU Free Documentation License, section 7, "Aggregation with Independent Works").

The following copyright applies to NetHack:

&lt;pre&gt;
NetHack, Copyright 1985-2003
         By Stichting Mathematisch Centrum and M. Stephenson.
         See license for details.
&lt;/pre&gt;

The license for NetHack is the [[Project:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]].</text>
      <sha1>hlgw5bce36h4q6sce21if54iah0t360</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>1653</id>
      <parentid>1571</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-02-15T05:16:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>removing disclaimer (moved to [[Wikihack:General disclaimers]], but mentioning to [[Wikihack:Contributors to Rodney donating to the Wiki]]... also: year for copyright is now 2006</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="1647">{{community}}

=== Copyright ===
All contributions to this wiki at Wikicities are released under the [[Wikicities:Text of the GNU Free Documentation License|GNU Free Documentation License]]. See [[Wikicities:Wikicities copyrights|Wikicities copyrights]] for details.

 Copyright (c) 2005-2006 Contributors to Wikicities
 Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document
 under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2
 or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation;
 with no Invariant Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover
 Texts.  A copy of the license is included in the section entitled
 "[[Wikicities:Text of the GNU Free Documentation License|Text of the GNU Free Documentation License]]".

For copyright of an image, see the page for that image.

=== Rodney ===
A few contributors to [http://alt.org/nethack/rodney-learn.php Rodney] agreed to rerelease their contributions to this wiki under the GNU Free Documentation License. A full list is at [[Wikihack:Contributors to Rodney donating to the Wiki]].

=== NetHack Copyright ===
This wiki contains or will contain screen shots and source code from the NetHack game itself. The copyright of this wiki is separate from the copyright of NetHack; material from NetHack is aggregated to or quoted in this wiki.

The following copyright applies to NetHack:

&lt;pre&gt;
NetHack, Copyright 1985-2003
         By Stichting Mathematisch Centrum and M. Stephenson.
         See license for details.
&lt;/pre&gt;

The license for NetHack is the [[Project:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]].

[[Category:Wikihack]]</text>
      <sha1>g6suic9jznskpz0phkpmtw89zsm0tkw</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>1655</id>
      <parentid>1653</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-02-15T05:19:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>This copyright notice looks ugly. I will just delete because the central Wikicity already maintains a copy.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="1149">{{community}}

=== Copyright ===
All contributions to this wiki at Wikicities are released under the [[Wikicities:Text of the GNU Free Documentation License|GNU Free Documentation License]]. See [[Wikicities:Wikicities copyrights|Wikicities copyrights]] for details.

For copyright of an image, see the page for that image.

=== Rodney ===
A few contributors to [http://alt.org/nethack/rodney-learn.php Rodney] agreed to rerelease their contributions to this wiki under the GNU Free Documentation License. A full list is at [[Wikihack:Contributors to Rodney donating to the Wiki]].

=== NetHack Copyright ===
This wiki contains or will contain screen shots and source code from the NetHack game itself. The copyright of this wiki is separate from the copyright of NetHack; material from NetHack is aggregated to or quoted in this wiki.

The following copyright applies to NetHack:

&lt;pre&gt;
NetHack, Copyright 1985-2003
         By Stichting Mathematisch Centrum and M. Stephenson.
         See license for details.
&lt;/pre&gt;

The license for NetHack is the [[Project:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]].

[[Category:Wikihack]]</text>
      <sha1>31y5xdskgc414y9lltpg1ylg6l50ukx</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>1656</id>
      <parentid>1655</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-02-15T05:23:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>actually, it works okay if I include a copy here, but do not use preformatting</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="1709">{{community}}

=== Copyright ===
All contributions to this wiki at Wikicities are released under the [[Wikicities:Text of the GNU Free Documentation License|GNU Free Documentation License]]. See [[Wikicities:Wikicities copyrights|Wikicities copyrights]] for details.

&lt;div style="font-size: smaller;"&gt;
Copyright (c) 2005-2006 Contributors to Wikicities&lt;br /&gt;
Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document
under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2
or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation;
with no Invariant Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover
Texts.  A copy of the license is included in the section entitled
"[[Wikicities:Text of the GNU Free Documentation License|Text of the GNU Free Documentation License]]".
&lt;/div&gt;

For copyright of an image, see the page for that image.

=== Rodney ===
A few contributors to [http://alt.org/nethack/rodney-learn.php Rodney] agreed to rerelease their contributions to this wiki under the GNU Free Documentation License. A full list is at [[Wikihack:Contributors to Rodney donating to the Wiki]].

=== NetHack Copyright ===
This wiki contains or will contain screen shots and source code from the NetHack game itself. The copyright of this wiki is separate from the copyright of NetHack; material from NetHack is aggregated to or quoted in this wiki.

The following copyright applies to NetHack:

&lt;div style="font-size: smaller;"&gt;
NetHack, Copyright 1985-2003&lt;br /&gt;
By Stichting Mathematisch Centrum and M. Stephenson.&lt;br /&gt;
See license for details.
&lt;/div&gt;

The license for NetHack is the [[Project:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]].

[[Category:Wikihack]]</text>
      <sha1>00fjeprx53igih4q4l7smc2iln859xq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>1739</id>
      <parentid>1656</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-02-16T12:47:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>mentioned the hugo spoilers - yes, we can use them!</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="2035">{{community}}

=== Copyright ===
All contributions to this wiki at Wikicities are released under the [[Wikicities:Text of the GNU Free Documentation License|GNU Free Documentation License]]. See [[Wikicities:Wikicities copyrights|Wikicities copyrights]] for details.

&lt;div style="font-size: smaller;"&gt;
Copyright (c) 2005-2006 Contributors to Wikicities&lt;br /&gt;
Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document
under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2
or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation;
with no Invariant Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover
Texts.  A copy of the license is included in the section entitled
"[[Wikicities:Text of the GNU Free Documentation License|Text of the GNU Free Documentation License]]".
&lt;/div&gt;

For copyright of an image, see the page for that image.

=== The Hugo Spoilers ===

The [http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/nh/ spoilers created by Kevin Hugo and Dylan O'Donnell] are licensed under a BSD-ish license, which Dylan believes is compatible with this website. The template [[Template:DOD]] should be used on any page which is based on one of the xxxx-343.txt spoilers.

=== Rodney ===
A few contributors to [http://alt.org/nethack/rodney-learn.php Rodney] agreed to rerelease their contributions to this wiki under the GNU Free Documentation License. A full list is at [[Wikihack:Contributors to Rodney donating to the Wiki]].

=== NetHack Copyright ===
This wiki contains or will contain screen shots and source code from the NetHack game itself. The copyright of this wiki is separate from the copyright of NetHack; material from NetHack is aggregated to or quoted in this wiki.

The following copyright applies to NetHack:

&lt;div style="font-size: smaller;"&gt;
NetHack, Copyright 1985-2003&lt;br /&gt;
By Stichting Mathematisch Centrum and M. Stephenson.&lt;br /&gt;
See license for details.
&lt;/div&gt;

The license for NetHack is the [[Project:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]].

[[Category:Wikihack]]</text>
      <sha1>ia511t9q9yjyxrivq62c5jb26av6581</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>1779</id>
      <parentid>1739</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-02-19T20:47:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The thing</username>
        <id>816</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Wikihack:Copyrights moved to Fikihack:Copyrights</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="2035">{{community}}

=== Copyright ===
All contributions to this wiki at Wikicities are released under the [[Wikicities:Text of the GNU Free Documentation License|GNU Free Documentation License]]. See [[Wikicities:Wikicities copyrights|Wikicities copyrights]] for details.

&lt;div style="font-size: smaller;"&gt;
Copyright (c) 2005-2006 Contributors to Wikicities&lt;br /&gt;
Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document
under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2
or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation;
with no Invariant Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover
Texts.  A copy of the license is included in the section entitled
"[[Wikicities:Text of the GNU Free Documentation License|Text of the GNU Free Documentation License]]".
&lt;/div&gt;

For copyright of an image, see the page for that image.

=== The Hugo Spoilers ===

The [http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/nh/ spoilers created by Kevin Hugo and Dylan O'Donnell] are licensed under a BSD-ish license, which Dylan believes is compatible with this website. The template [[Template:DOD]] should be used on any page which is based on one of the xxxx-343.txt spoilers.

=== Rodney ===
A few contributors to [http://alt.org/nethack/rodney-learn.php Rodney] agreed to rerelease their contributions to this wiki under the GNU Free Documentation License. A full list is at [[Wikihack:Contributors to Rodney donating to the Wiki]].

=== NetHack Copyright ===
This wiki contains or will contain screen shots and source code from the NetHack game itself. The copyright of this wiki is separate from the copyright of NetHack; material from NetHack is aggregated to or quoted in this wiki.

The following copyright applies to NetHack:

&lt;div style="font-size: smaller;"&gt;
NetHack, Copyright 1985-2003&lt;br /&gt;
By Stichting Mathematisch Centrum and M. Stephenson.&lt;br /&gt;
See license for details.
&lt;/div&gt;

The license for NetHack is the [[Project:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]].

[[Category:Wikihack]]</text>
      <sha1>ia511t9q9yjyxrivq62c5jb26av6581</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>1821</id>
      <parentid>1779</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-02-20T05:46:44Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Fikihack:Copyrights moved to Wikihack:Copyrights</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="2035">{{community}}

=== Copyright ===
All contributions to this wiki at Wikicities are released under the [[Wikicities:Text of the GNU Free Documentation License|GNU Free Documentation License]]. See [[Wikicities:Wikicities copyrights|Wikicities copyrights]] for details.

&lt;div style="font-size: smaller;"&gt;
Copyright (c) 2005-2006 Contributors to Wikicities&lt;br /&gt;
Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document
under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2
or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation;
with no Invariant Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and no Back-Cover
Texts.  A copy of the license is included in the section entitled
"[[Wikicities:Text of the GNU Free Documentation License|Text of the GNU Free Documentation License]]".
&lt;/div&gt;

For copyright of an image, see the page for that image.

=== The Hugo Spoilers ===

The [http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/nh/ spoilers created by Kevin Hugo and Dylan O'Donnell] are licensed under a BSD-ish license, which Dylan believes is compatible with this website. The template [[Template:DOD]] should be used on any page which is based on one of the xxxx-343.txt spoilers.

=== Rodney ===
A few contributors to [http://alt.org/nethack/rodney-learn.php Rodney] agreed to rerelease their contributions to this wiki under the GNU Free Documentation License. A full list is at [[Wikihack:Contributors to Rodney donating to the Wiki]].

=== NetHack Copyright ===
This wiki contains or will contain screen shots and source code from the NetHack game itself. The copyright of this wiki is separate from the copyright of NetHack; material from NetHack is aggregated to or quoted in this wiki.

The following copyright applies to NetHack:

&lt;div style="font-size: smaller;"&gt;
NetHack, Copyright 1985-2003&lt;br /&gt;
By Stichting Mathematisch Centrum and M. Stephenson.&lt;br /&gt;
See license for details.
&lt;/div&gt;

The license for NetHack is the [[Project:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]].

[[Category:Wikihack]]</text>
      <sha1>ia511t9q9yjyxrivq62c5jb26av6581</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2002</id>
      <parentid>1821</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-04-01T22:19:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Overhaul. We are now called Wikia (we were Wikicities). Show those templates that I have for each license type.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="2249">{{community}}
This wiki uses the GNU Free Documentation License. Whenever you edit or add to this wiki, you release your contributions under that license. This is explained on every edit screen.

We have added some other content to this wiki:
* some Hugo/O'Donnell spoilers, because we think their license is compatible with the GNU FDL
* some parts of [[Rodney]], when contributors gave permission to us
* [[NetHack]] source code and screenshots

__TOC__

&lt;br style="clear: right;" /&gt;
=== Copyright ===
'''All contributions to this wiki are released under the [[Wikia:Text of the GNU Free Documentation License|GNU Free Documentation License]]. See [[Wikia:Wikia copyrights|Wikia copyrights]] for details.'''

{{GFDL}}

For copyright of an image, see the page for that image.

=== The Hugo Spoilers ===

The [http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/nh/ spoilers created by Kevin Hugo and Dylan O'Donnell] are licensed under a BSD-ish license, which Dylan believes is compatible with this website. The template [[Template:DOD]] should be used on any page which is based on one of the xxxx-343.txt spoilers.

{{DOD}}

=== Rodney ===
A few contributors to [http://alt.org/nethack/rodney-learn.php Rodney] agreed to rerelease their contributions to this wiki under the GNU Free Documentation License. A full list is at [[Wikihack:Contributors to Rodney donating to the Wiki]].

You will see this message on pages that have Rodney content:

{{rodney}}

=== NetHack Copyright ===
This wiki contains screen shots, source code, and quotes from the NetHack game itself.

The following copyright applies to NetHack:

&lt;div style="font-size: smaller;"&gt;
NetHack, Copyright 1985-2003&lt;br /&gt;
By Stichting Mathematisch Centrum and M. Stephenson.&lt;br /&gt;
See license for details.
&lt;/div&gt;

The license for NetHack is the [[Project:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]].

Sometimes, you will see this message on [[source code]] and screenshot pages:

{{NGPL}}

Note that unlike the other licenses above, the NetHack General Public License is not compatible with the GNU Free Documentation License. So you cannot add your own contributions to this wiki under the NetHack license, unless you also multilicense under the GNU FDL.

[[Category:Wikihack]]</text>
      <sha1>am00t6u24gdcz44zwq3sj8ntc9gg825</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>6470</id>
      <parentid>2002</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-08-04T20:37:48Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>GreyKnight</username>
        <id>325</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="2262">{{community}}
This wiki uses the GNU Free Documentation License. Whenever you edit or add to this wiki, you release your contributions under that license. This is explained on every edit screen.

We have added some other content to this wiki:
* some Hugo/O'Donnell spoilers, because we think their license is compatible with the GNU FDL
* some parts of [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]], when contributors gave permission to us
* [[NetHack]] source code and screenshots

__TOC__

&lt;br style="clear: right;" /&gt;
=== Copyright ===
'''All contributions to this wiki are released under the [[Wikia:Text of the GNU Free Documentation License|GNU Free Documentation License]]. See [[Wikia:Wikia copyrights|Wikia copyrights]] for details.'''

{{GFDL}}

For copyright of an image, see the page for that image.

=== The Hugo Spoilers ===

The [http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/nh/ spoilers created by Kevin Hugo and Dylan O'Donnell] are licensed under a BSD-ish license, which Dylan believes is compatible with this website. The template [[Template:DOD]] should be used on any page which is based on one of the xxxx-343.txt spoilers.

{{DOD}}

=== Rodney ===
A few contributors to [http://alt.org/nethack/rodney-learn.php Rodney] agreed to rerelease their contributions to this wiki under the GNU Free Documentation License. A full list is at [[Wikihack:Contributors to Rodney donating to the Wiki]].

You will see this message on pages that have Rodney content:

{{rodney}}

=== NetHack Copyright ===
This wiki contains screen shots, source code, and quotes from the NetHack game itself.

The following copyright applies to NetHack:

&lt;div style="font-size: smaller;"&gt;
NetHack, Copyright 1985-2003&lt;br /&gt;
By Stichting Mathematisch Centrum and M. Stephenson.&lt;br /&gt;
See license for details.
&lt;/div&gt;

The license for NetHack is the [[Project:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]].

Sometimes, you will see this message on [[source code]] and screenshot pages:

{{NGPL}}

Note that unlike the other licenses above, the NetHack General Public License is not compatible with the GNU Free Documentation License. So you cannot add your own contributions to this wiki under the NetHack license, unless you also multilicense under the GNU FDL.

[[Category:Wikihack]]</text>
      <sha1>kgoqn0kq2uhl2br9x0rp66fblrih84e</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>11694</id>
      <parentid>6470</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-25T14:32:14Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>we have a number of different copyright notices now</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3439">{{community}}
This wiki uses the GNU Free Documentation License. Whenever you edit or add to this wiki, you release your contributions under that license. This is explained on every edit screen.

We have added some other content to this wiki:
* some Hugo/O'Donnell spoilers, because we think their license is compatible with the GNU FDL
* some parts of [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]], when contributors gave permission to us
* other spoilers whose authors have given us permission
* [[NetHack]] source code and screenshots

__TOC__

&lt;br style="clear: right;" /&gt;
== Default copyright ==

All contributions to this wiki are released under the [[Wikia:Text of the GNU Free Documentation License|GNU Free Documentation License]]. See [[Wikia:Wikia copyrights|Wikia copyrights]] for details.

{{GFDL}}

===Images===

For copyright of an image, see the page for that image. Screenshots of NetHack are likely to be labelled as [[NGPL]], while other images might count as [[fair use]].

===Copyright-orphan spoilers===

There are many spoilers available which carry no copyright notice, but the copyright of these still lies with their authors. It might be said that the voluntary public distribution of these documents is an implied license which grants the freedoms necessary for us to include these works in this wiki. We do so in good faith by using the {{tl|basedon}} template, which looks like this:

{{basedon
|name=Matthew Lahut
|url=http://www.steelypips.org/nethack/pray.html
}}


If you are a spoiler author whose work has been used in this manner against your intentions, [[Wikihack:Community Portal|contact us]] and we will remove the offending text.

If the spoiler ''does'' carry a copyright statement (which is not inclusion-compatible with the GNU GFDL), '''do not use it without obtaining permission from the author'''.

==Non-GNU-GFDL content==

=== The Hugo Spoilers ===

The [http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/nh/ spoilers created by Kevin Hugo and Dylan O'Donnell] are licensed under a BSD-ish license, which Dylan believes is compatible with this website. The template [[Template:DOD]] should be used on any page which is based on one of the xxxx-343.txt spoilers.

{{DOD}}

=== Rodney ===
A few contributors to [http://alt.org/nethack/rodney-learn.php Rodney] agreed to rerelease their contributions to this wiki under the GNU Free Documentation License. A full list is at [[Wikihack:Contributors to Rodney donating to the Wiki]].

You will see this message on pages that have Rodney content:

{{rodney}}

=== NetHack Copyright ===
This wiki contains screen shots, source code, and quotes from the NetHack game itself.

The following copyright applies to NetHack:

&lt;div style="font-size: smaller;"&gt;
NetHack, Copyright 1985-2003&lt;br /&gt;
By Stichting Mathematisch Centrum and M. Stephenson.&lt;br /&gt;
See license for details.
&lt;/div&gt;

The license for NetHack is the [[Project:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]].

Sometimes, you will see this message on [[source code]] and screenshot pages:

{{NGPL}}

Note that unlike the other licenses above, the NetHack General Public License is not compatible with the GNU Free Documentation License. So you cannot add your own contributions to this wiki under the NetHack license, unless you also multilicense under the GNU FDL.

Older versions of Hack and NetHack carry what we call the [[CWI license]], and carry the following message:

{{CWI}}

[[Category:Wikihack]]</text>
      <sha1>lzsp7d3tmnw18ixm7yhmcsspjjx7r6h</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>40703</id>
      <parentid>11694</parentid>
      <timestamp>2009-06-26T23:41:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>WikiaBot</username>
        <id>889</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Update. Please see [[w:Wikia:Licensing update|Wikia:Licensing update]] for details</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3655">:'''''Please see [[w:Wikia:Licensing|Wikia:Licensing]] for details of the licensing on this wiki.'''''
:'''&lt;span style="color:red; font-size: 150%;"&gt;Warning!&lt;/span&gt; Information below may be outdated or incorrect.'''
{{community}}
This wiki uses the GNU Free Documentation License. Whenever you edit or add to this wiki, you release your contributions under that license. This is explained on every edit screen.

We have added some other content to this wiki:
* some Hugo/O'Donnell spoilers, because we think their license is compatible with the GNU FDL
* some parts of [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]], when contributors gave permission to us
* other spoilers whose authors have given us permission
* [[NetHack]] source code and screenshots

__TOC__

&lt;br style="clear: right;" /&gt;
== Default copyright ==

All contributions to this wiki are released under the [[Wikia:Text of the GNU Free Documentation License|GNU Free Documentation License]]. See [[Wikia:Wikia copyrights|Wikia copyrights]] for details.

{{GFDL}}

===Images===

For copyright of an image, see the page for that image. Screenshots of NetHack are likely to be labelled as [[NGPL]], while other images might count as [[fair use]].

===Copyright-orphan spoilers===

There are many spoilers available which carry no copyright notice, but the copyright of these still lies with their authors. It might be said that the voluntary public distribution of these documents is an implied license which grants the freedoms necessary for us to include these works in this wiki. We do so in good faith by using the {{tl|basedon}} template, which looks like this:

{{basedon
|name=Matthew Lahut
|url=http://www.steelypips.org/nethack/pray.html
}}


If you are a spoiler author whose work has been used in this manner against your intentions, [[Wikihack:Community Portal|contact us]] and we will remove the offending text.

If the spoiler ''does'' carry a copyright statement (which is not inclusion-compatible with the GNU GFDL), '''do not use it without obtaining permission from the author'''.

==Non-GNU-GFDL content==

=== The Hugo Spoilers ===

The [http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/nh/ spoilers created by Kevin Hugo and Dylan O'Donnell] are licensed under a BSD-ish license, which Dylan believes is compatible with this website. The template [[Template:DOD]] should be used on any page which is based on one of the xxxx-343.txt spoilers.

{{DOD}}

=== Rodney ===
A few contributors to [http://alt.org/nethack/rodney-learn.php Rodney] agreed to rerelease their contributions to this wiki under the GNU Free Documentation License. A full list is at [[Wikihack:Contributors to Rodney donating to the Wiki]].

You will see this message on pages that have Rodney content:

{{rodney}}

=== NetHack Copyright ===
This wiki contains screen shots, source code, and quotes from the NetHack game itself.

The following copyright applies to NetHack:

&lt;div style="font-size: smaller;"&gt;
NetHack, Copyright 1985-2003&lt;br /&gt;
By Stichting Mathematisch Centrum and M. Stephenson.&lt;br /&gt;
See license for details.
&lt;/div&gt;

The license for NetHack is the [[Project:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]].

Sometimes, you will see this message on [[source code]] and screenshot pages:

{{NGPL}}

Note that unlike the other licenses above, the NetHack General Public License is not compatible with the GNU Free Documentation License. So you cannot add your own contributions to this wiki under the NetHack license, unless you also multilicense under the GNU FDL.

Older versions of Hack and NetHack carry what we call the [[CWI license]], and carry the following message:

{{CWI}}

[[Category:Wikihack]]</text>
      <sha1>7qvgdi7jf55k0xni2tossyuom329fud</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53368</id>
      <parentid>40703</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-10-31T21:12:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>recategorize: s/Wikihack/NethackWiki/</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3657">:'''''Please see [[w:Wikia:Licensing|Wikia:Licensing]] for details of the licensing on this wiki.'''''
:'''&lt;span style="color:red; font-size: 150%;"&gt;Warning!&lt;/span&gt; Information below may be outdated or incorrect.'''
{{community}}
This wiki uses the GNU Free Documentation License. Whenever you edit or add to this wiki, you release your contributions under that license. This is explained on every edit screen.

We have added some other content to this wiki:
* some Hugo/O'Donnell spoilers, because we think their license is compatible with the GNU FDL
* some parts of [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]], when contributors gave permission to us
* other spoilers whose authors have given us permission
* [[NetHack]] source code and screenshots

__TOC__

&lt;br style="clear: right;" /&gt;
== Default copyright ==

All contributions to this wiki are released under the [[Wikia:Text of the GNU Free Documentation License|GNU Free Documentation License]]. See [[Wikia:Wikia copyrights|Wikia copyrights]] for details.

{{GFDL}}

===Images===

For copyright of an image, see the page for that image. Screenshots of NetHack are likely to be labelled as [[NGPL]], while other images might count as [[fair use]].

===Copyright-orphan spoilers===

There are many spoilers available which carry no copyright notice, but the copyright of these still lies with their authors. It might be said that the voluntary public distribution of these documents is an implied license which grants the freedoms necessary for us to include these works in this wiki. We do so in good faith by using the {{tl|basedon}} template, which looks like this:

{{basedon
|name=Matthew Lahut
|url=http://www.steelypips.org/nethack/pray.html
}}


If you are a spoiler author whose work has been used in this manner against your intentions, [[Wikihack:Community Portal|contact us]] and we will remove the offending text.

If the spoiler ''does'' carry a copyright statement (which is not inclusion-compatible with the GNU GFDL), '''do not use it without obtaining permission from the author'''.

==Non-GNU-GFDL content==

=== The Hugo Spoilers ===

The [http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/nh/ spoilers created by Kevin Hugo and Dylan O'Donnell] are licensed under a BSD-ish license, which Dylan believes is compatible with this website. The template [[Template:DOD]] should be used on any page which is based on one of the xxxx-343.txt spoilers.

{{DOD}}

=== Rodney ===
A few contributors to [http://alt.org/nethack/rodney-learn.php Rodney] agreed to rerelease their contributions to this wiki under the GNU Free Documentation License. A full list is at [[Wikihack:Contributors to Rodney donating to the Wiki]].

You will see this message on pages that have Rodney content:

{{rodney}}

=== NetHack Copyright ===
This wiki contains screen shots, source code, and quotes from the NetHack game itself.

The following copyright applies to NetHack:

&lt;div style="font-size: smaller;"&gt;
NetHack, Copyright 1985-2003&lt;br /&gt;
By Stichting Mathematisch Centrum and M. Stephenson.&lt;br /&gt;
See license for details.
&lt;/div&gt;

The license for NetHack is the [[Project:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]].

Sometimes, you will see this message on [[source code]] and screenshot pages:

{{NGPL}}

Note that unlike the other licenses above, the NetHack General Public License is not compatible with the GNU Free Documentation License. So you cannot add your own contributions to this wiki under the NetHack license, unless you also multilicense under the GNU FDL.

Older versions of Hack and NetHack carry what we call the [[CWI license]], and carry the following message:

{{CWI}}
[[Category:NethackWiki]]</text>
      <sha1>rciakf5ms59nj93j46b8mzd1gf5hlln</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53993</id>
      <parentid>53368</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T18:05:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Text replace - "NethackWiki" to "NetHackWiki"</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3657">:'''''Please see [[w:Wikia:Licensing|Wikia:Licensing]] for details of the licensing on this wiki.'''''
:'''&lt;span style="color:red; font-size: 150%;"&gt;Warning!&lt;/span&gt; Information below may be outdated or incorrect.'''
{{community}}
This wiki uses the GNU Free Documentation License. Whenever you edit or add to this wiki, you release your contributions under that license. This is explained on every edit screen.

We have added some other content to this wiki:
* some Hugo/O'Donnell spoilers, because we think their license is compatible with the GNU FDL
* some parts of [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]], when contributors gave permission to us
* other spoilers whose authors have given us permission
* [[NetHack]] source code and screenshots

__TOC__

&lt;br style="clear: right;" /&gt;
== Default copyright ==

All contributions to this wiki are released under the [[Wikia:Text of the GNU Free Documentation License|GNU Free Documentation License]]. See [[Wikia:Wikia copyrights|Wikia copyrights]] for details.

{{GFDL}}

===Images===

For copyright of an image, see the page for that image. Screenshots of NetHack are likely to be labelled as [[NGPL]], while other images might count as [[fair use]].

===Copyright-orphan spoilers===

There are many spoilers available which carry no copyright notice, but the copyright of these still lies with their authors. It might be said that the voluntary public distribution of these documents is an implied license which grants the freedoms necessary for us to include these works in this wiki. We do so in good faith by using the {{tl|basedon}} template, which looks like this:

{{basedon
|name=Matthew Lahut
|url=http://www.steelypips.org/nethack/pray.html
}}


If you are a spoiler author whose work has been used in this manner against your intentions, [[Wikihack:Community Portal|contact us]] and we will remove the offending text.

If the spoiler ''does'' carry a copyright statement (which is not inclusion-compatible with the GNU GFDL), '''do not use it without obtaining permission from the author'''.

==Non-GNU-GFDL content==

=== The Hugo Spoilers ===

The [http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/nh/ spoilers created by Kevin Hugo and Dylan O'Donnell] are licensed under a BSD-ish license, which Dylan believes is compatible with this website. The template [[Template:DOD]] should be used on any page which is based on one of the xxxx-343.txt spoilers.

{{DOD}}

=== Rodney ===
A few contributors to [http://alt.org/nethack/rodney-learn.php Rodney] agreed to rerelease their contributions to this wiki under the GNU Free Documentation License. A full list is at [[Wikihack:Contributors to Rodney donating to the Wiki]].

You will see this message on pages that have Rodney content:

{{rodney}}

=== NetHack Copyright ===
This wiki contains screen shots, source code, and quotes from the NetHack game itself.

The following copyright applies to NetHack:

&lt;div style="font-size: smaller;"&gt;
NetHack, Copyright 1985-2003&lt;br /&gt;
By Stichting Mathematisch Centrum and M. Stephenson.&lt;br /&gt;
See license for details.
&lt;/div&gt;

The license for NetHack is the [[Project:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]].

Sometimes, you will see this message on [[source code]] and screenshot pages:

{{NGPL}}

Note that unlike the other licenses above, the NetHack General Public License is not compatible with the GNU Free Documentation License. So you cannot add your own contributions to this wiki under the NetHack license, unless you also multilicense under the GNU FDL.

Older versions of Hack and NetHack carry what we call the [[CWI license]], and carry the following message:

{{CWI}}
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]</text>
      <sha1>f3ainl969v6zkbsiac03wdj6l8t5da7</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56068</id>
      <parentid>53993</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T19:32:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Text replace - "Wikihack" to "NetHackWiki"</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3663">:'''''Please see [[w:Wikia:Licensing|Wikia:Licensing]] for details of the licensing on this wiki.'''''
:'''&lt;span style="color:red; font-size: 150%;"&gt;Warning!&lt;/span&gt; Information below may be outdated or incorrect.'''
{{community}}
This wiki uses the GNU Free Documentation License. Whenever you edit or add to this wiki, you release your contributions under that license. This is explained on every edit screen.

We have added some other content to this wiki:
* some Hugo/O'Donnell spoilers, because we think their license is compatible with the GNU FDL
* some parts of [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]], when contributors gave permission to us
* other spoilers whose authors have given us permission
* [[NetHack]] source code and screenshots

__TOC__

&lt;br style="clear: right;" /&gt;
== Default copyright ==

All contributions to this wiki are released under the [[Wikia:Text of the GNU Free Documentation License|GNU Free Documentation License]]. See [[Wikia:Wikia copyrights|Wikia copyrights]] for details.

{{GFDL}}

===Images===

For copyright of an image, see the page for that image. Screenshots of NetHack are likely to be labelled as [[NGPL]], while other images might count as [[fair use]].

===Copyright-orphan spoilers===

There are many spoilers available which carry no copyright notice, but the copyright of these still lies with their authors. It might be said that the voluntary public distribution of these documents is an implied license which grants the freedoms necessary for us to include these works in this wiki. We do so in good faith by using the {{tl|basedon}} template, which looks like this:

{{basedon
|name=Matthew Lahut
|url=http://www.steelypips.org/nethack/pray.html
}}


If you are a spoiler author whose work has been used in this manner against your intentions, [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal|contact us]] and we will remove the offending text.

If the spoiler ''does'' carry a copyright statement (which is not inclusion-compatible with the GNU GFDL), '''do not use it without obtaining permission from the author'''.

==Non-GNU-GFDL content==

=== The Hugo Spoilers ===

The [http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/nh/ spoilers created by Kevin Hugo and Dylan O'Donnell] are licensed under a BSD-ish license, which Dylan believes is compatible with this website. The template [[Template:DOD]] should be used on any page which is based on one of the xxxx-343.txt spoilers.

{{DOD}}

=== Rodney ===
A few contributors to [http://alt.org/nethack/rodney-learn.php Rodney] agreed to rerelease their contributions to this wiki under the GNU Free Documentation License. A full list is at [[NetHackWiki:Contributors to Rodney donating to the Wiki]].

You will see this message on pages that have Rodney content:

{{rodney}}

=== NetHack Copyright ===
This wiki contains screen shots, source code, and quotes from the NetHack game itself.

The following copyright applies to NetHack:

&lt;div style="font-size: smaller;"&gt;
NetHack, Copyright 1985-2003&lt;br /&gt;
By Stichting Mathematisch Centrum and M. Stephenson.&lt;br /&gt;
See license for details.
&lt;/div&gt;

The license for NetHack is the [[Project:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]].

Sometimes, you will see this message on [[source code]] and screenshot pages:

{{NGPL}}

Note that unlike the other licenses above, the NetHack General Public License is not compatible with the GNU Free Documentation License. So you cannot add your own contributions to this wiki under the NetHack license, unless you also multilicense under the GNU FDL.

Older versions of Hack and NetHack carry what we call the [[CWI license]], and carry the following message:

{{CWI}}
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]</text>
      <sha1>gzqh91a59i7r5sgccnk48fkfbh6xn89</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>60643</id>
      <parentid>56068</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-01T23:33:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>update to reflect the June 19, 2009 license change and the later move away from Wikia</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3813">{{community}}

Most pages on {{SITENAME}} are licensed under the [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ '''Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike License 3.0 (Unported)'''].  {{SITENAME}} was originally licensed under the [http://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl.html GNU Free Documentation License] (version 1.2 or later), but, while still at Wikia, was [[wikia:Forum:Licensing update June 19, 2009|relicensed to CC-By-SA 3.0]] on June 19, 2009 in accordance with the provisions of [http://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl.html#section11 section 11 of the GFDL version 1.3].

We have added some other content to this wiki:
* some Hugo/O'Donnell spoilers, because we think their license is compatible with CC-By-SA
* some parts of [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]], when contributors gave permission to us
* other spoilers whose authors have given us permission
* [[NetHack]] source code and screenshots

__TOC__

&lt;br style="clear: right;" /&gt;
== Default copyright ==

All contributions to this wiki are released under the [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ '''Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike License 3.0 (Unported)'''].

{{cc-by-sa-3.0}}

===Images===

For copyright of an image, see the page for that image. Screenshots of NetHack are likely to be labelled as [[NGPL]], while other images might count as [[fair use]].

===Copyright-orphan spoilers===

There are many spoilers available which carry no copyright notice, but the copyright of these still lies with their authors. It might be said that the voluntary public distribution of these documents is an implied license which grants the freedoms necessary for us to include these works in this wiki. We do so in good faith by using the {{tl|basedon}} template, which looks like this:

{{basedon
|name=Matthew Lahut
|url=http://www.steelypips.org/nethack/pray.html
}}


If you are a spoiler author whose work has been used in this manner against your intentions, [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal|contact us]] and we will remove the offending text.

If the spoiler ''does'' carry a copyright statement (which is not inclusion-compatible with CC-By-SA), '''do not use it without obtaining permission from the author'''.

==Non-CC-By-SA content==

=== The Hugo Spoilers ===

The [http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/nh/ spoilers created by Kevin Hugo and Dylan O'Donnell] are licensed under a BSD-ish license, which Dylan believes is compatible with this website. The template [[Template:DOD]] should be used on any page which is based on one of the xxxx-343.txt spoilers.

{{DOD}}

=== Rodney ===
A few contributors to [http://alt.org/nethack/rodney-learn.php Rodney] agreed to rerelease their contributions to this wiki under the GNU Free Documentation License. A full list is at [[NetHackWiki:Contributors to Rodney donating to the Wiki]].

You will see this message on pages that have Rodney content:

{{rodney}}

=== NetHack Copyright ===
This wiki contains screen shots, source code, and quotes from the NetHack game itself.

The following copyright applies to NetHack:

&lt;div style="font-size: smaller;"&gt;
NetHack, Copyright 1985-2003&lt;br /&gt;
By Stichting Mathematisch Centrum and M. Stephenson.&lt;br /&gt;
See license for details.
&lt;/div&gt;

The license for NetHack is the [[Project:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]].

Sometimes, you will see this message on [[source code]] and screenshot pages:

{{NGPL}}

Note that unlike the other licenses above, the NetHack General Public License is not compatible with the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike license. So you cannot add your own contributions to this wiki under the NetHack license, unless you also multilicense under CC-By-SA.

Older versions of Hack and NetHack carry what we call the [[CWI license]], and carry the following message:

{{CWI}}
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]</text>
      <sha1>ixscdlpfnrcw7m7vjxavknrwyt3xapr</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>84758</id>
      <parentid>60643</parentid>
      <timestamp>2013-05-05T08:10:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Bulwersator</username>
        <id>4000045</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Images */ [[Template:self|Own work]] is presumed to be released under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike License 3.0 (Unported) ([[NetHackWiki:Copyrights#Default_copyright|like other contributions]]).</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4034">{{community}}

Most pages on {{SITENAME}} are licensed under the [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ '''Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike License 3.0 (Unported)'''].  {{SITENAME}} was originally licensed under the [http://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl.html GNU Free Documentation License] (version 1.2 or later), but, while still at Wikia, was [[wikia:Forum:Licensing update June 19, 2009|relicensed to CC-By-SA 3.0]] on June 19, 2009 in accordance with the provisions of [http://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl.html#section11 section 11 of the GFDL version 1.3].

We have added some other content to this wiki:
* some Hugo/O'Donnell spoilers, because we think their license is compatible with CC-By-SA
* some parts of [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]], when contributors gave permission to us
* other spoilers whose authors have given us permission
* [[NetHack]] source code and screenshots

__TOC__

&lt;br style="clear: right;" /&gt;
== Default copyright ==

All contributions to this wiki are released under the [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ '''Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike License 3.0 (Unported)'''].

{{cc-by-sa-3.0}}

===Images===

For copyright of an image, see the page for that image. Screenshots of NetHack are likely to be labelled as [[NGPL]], while other images might count as [[:wikipedia:fair use|fair use]]. [[Template:self|Own work]] is presumed to be released under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike License 3.0 (Unported) ([[NetHackWiki:Copyrights#Default_copyright|like other contributions]]).

===Copyright-orphan spoilers===

There are many spoilers available which carry no copyright notice, but the copyright of these still lies with their authors. It might be said that the voluntary public distribution of these documents is an implied license which grants the freedoms necessary for us to include these works in this wiki. We do so in good faith by using the {{tl|basedon}} template, which looks like this:

{{basedon
|name=Matthew Lahut
|url=http://www.steelypips.org/nethack/pray.html
}}


If you are a spoiler author whose work has been used in this manner against your intentions, [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal|contact us]] and we will remove the offending text.

If the spoiler ''does'' carry a copyright statement (which is not inclusion-compatible with CC-By-SA), '''do not use it without obtaining permission from the author'''.

==Non-CC-By-SA content==

=== The Hugo Spoilers ===

The [http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/nh/ spoilers created by Kevin Hugo and Dylan O'Donnell] are licensed under a BSD-ish license, which Dylan believes is compatible with this website. The template [[Template:DOD]] should be used on any page which is based on one of the xxxx-343.txt spoilers.

{{DOD}}

=== Rodney ===
A few contributors to [http://alt.org/nethack/rodney-learn.php Rodney] agreed to rerelease their contributions to this wiki under the GNU Free Documentation License. A full list is at [[NetHackWiki:Contributors to Rodney donating to the Wiki]].

You will see this message on pages that have Rodney content:

{{rodney}}

=== NetHack Copyright ===
This wiki contains screen shots, source code, and quotes from the NetHack game itself.

The following copyright applies to NetHack:

&lt;div style="font-size: smaller;"&gt;
NetHack, Copyright 1985-2003&lt;br /&gt;
By Stichting Mathematisch Centrum and M. Stephenson.&lt;br /&gt;
See license for details.
&lt;/div&gt;

The license for NetHack is the [[Project:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]].

Sometimes, you will see this message on [[source code]] and screenshot pages:

{{NGPL}}

Note that unlike the other licenses above, the NetHack General Public License is not compatible with the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike license. So you cannot add your own contributions to this wiki under the NetHack license, unless you also multilicense under CC-By-SA.

Older versions of Hack and NetHack carry what we call the [[CWI license]], and carry the following message:

{{CWI}}
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]</text>
      <sha1>3c4i81rjpsuasc2o41toebmylt2yvhr</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>106775</id>
      <parentid>84758</parentid>
      <timestamp>2017-08-20T13:24:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Bcode</username>
        <id>4000180</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Text replacement - "http://alt.org" to "https://alt.org"</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4035">{{community}}

Most pages on {{SITENAME}} are licensed under the [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ '''Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike License 3.0 (Unported)'''].  {{SITENAME}} was originally licensed under the [http://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl.html GNU Free Documentation License] (version 1.2 or later), but, while still at Wikia, was [[wikia:Forum:Licensing update June 19, 2009|relicensed to CC-By-SA 3.0]] on June 19, 2009 in accordance with the provisions of [http://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl.html#section11 section 11 of the GFDL version 1.3].

We have added some other content to this wiki:
* some Hugo/O'Donnell spoilers, because we think their license is compatible with CC-By-SA
* some parts of [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]], when contributors gave permission to us
* other spoilers whose authors have given us permission
* [[NetHack]] source code and screenshots

__TOC__

&lt;br style="clear: right;" /&gt;
== Default copyright ==

All contributions to this wiki are released under the [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ '''Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike License 3.0 (Unported)'''].

{{cc-by-sa-3.0}}

===Images===

For copyright of an image, see the page for that image. Screenshots of NetHack are likely to be labelled as [[NGPL]], while other images might count as [[:wikipedia:fair use|fair use]]. [[Template:self|Own work]] is presumed to be released under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike License 3.0 (Unported) ([[NetHackWiki:Copyrights#Default_copyright|like other contributions]]).

===Copyright-orphan spoilers===

There are many spoilers available which carry no copyright notice, but the copyright of these still lies with their authors. It might be said that the voluntary public distribution of these documents is an implied license which grants the freedoms necessary for us to include these works in this wiki. We do so in good faith by using the {{tl|basedon}} template, which looks like this:

{{basedon
|name=Matthew Lahut
|url=http://www.steelypips.org/nethack/pray.html
}}


If you are a spoiler author whose work has been used in this manner against your intentions, [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal|contact us]] and we will remove the offending text.

If the spoiler ''does'' carry a copyright statement (which is not inclusion-compatible with CC-By-SA), '''do not use it without obtaining permission from the author'''.

==Non-CC-By-SA content==

=== The Hugo Spoilers ===

The [http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/nh/ spoilers created by Kevin Hugo and Dylan O'Donnell] are licensed under a BSD-ish license, which Dylan believes is compatible with this website. The template [[Template:DOD]] should be used on any page which is based on one of the xxxx-343.txt spoilers.

{{DOD}}

=== Rodney ===
A few contributors to [https://alt.org/nethack/rodney-learn.php Rodney] agreed to rerelease their contributions to this wiki under the GNU Free Documentation License. A full list is at [[NetHackWiki:Contributors to Rodney donating to the Wiki]].

You will see this message on pages that have Rodney content:

{{rodney}}

=== NetHack Copyright ===
This wiki contains screen shots, source code, and quotes from the NetHack game itself.

The following copyright applies to NetHack:

&lt;div style="font-size: smaller;"&gt;
NetHack, Copyright 1985-2003&lt;br /&gt;
By Stichting Mathematisch Centrum and M. Stephenson.&lt;br /&gt;
See license for details.
&lt;/div&gt;

The license for NetHack is the [[Project:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]].

Sometimes, you will see this message on [[source code]] and screenshot pages:

{{NGPL}}

Note that unlike the other licenses above, the NetHack General Public License is not compatible with the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike license. So you cannot add your own contributions to this wiki under the NetHack license, unless you also multilicense under CC-By-SA.

Older versions of Hack and NetHack carry what we call the [[CWI license]], and carry the following message:

{{CWI}}
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]</text>
      <sha1>pqtp613x8y55cqyzfag2xaersuitk10</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>169927</id>
      <parentid>106775</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-12T14:33:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* The Hugo Spoilers */ replace spod-central.org link with the most recent archive.org capture. (spod-central.org is gone). Fortunately, the {{DoD}} template already points to a mirror.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4078">{{community}}

Most pages on {{SITENAME}} are licensed under the [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ '''Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike License 3.0 (Unported)'''].  {{SITENAME}} was originally licensed under the [http://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl.html GNU Free Documentation License] (version 1.2 or later), but, while still at Wikia, was [[wikia:Forum:Licensing update June 19, 2009|relicensed to CC-By-SA 3.0]] on June 19, 2009 in accordance with the provisions of [http://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl.html#section11 section 11 of the GFDL version 1.3].

We have added some other content to this wiki:
* some Hugo/O'Donnell spoilers, because we think their license is compatible with CC-By-SA
* some parts of [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]], when contributors gave permission to us
* other spoilers whose authors have given us permission
* [[NetHack]] source code and screenshots

__TOC__

&lt;br style="clear: right;" /&gt;
== Default copyright ==

All contributions to this wiki are released under the [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ '''Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike License 3.0 (Unported)'''].

{{cc-by-sa-3.0}}

===Images===

For copyright of an image, see the page for that image. Screenshots of NetHack are likely to be labelled as [[NGPL]], while other images might count as [[:wikipedia:fair use|fair use]]. [[Template:self|Own work]] is presumed to be released under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike License 3.0 (Unported) ([[NetHackWiki:Copyrights#Default_copyright|like other contributions]]).

===Copyright-orphan spoilers===

There are many spoilers available which carry no copyright notice, but the copyright of these still lies with their authors. It might be said that the voluntary public distribution of these documents is an implied license which grants the freedoms necessary for us to include these works in this wiki. We do so in good faith by using the {{tl|basedon}} template, which looks like this:

{{basedon
|name=Matthew Lahut
|url=http://www.steelypips.org/nethack/pray.html
}}


If you are a spoiler author whose work has been used in this manner against your intentions, [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal|contact us]] and we will remove the offending text.

If the spoiler ''does'' carry a copyright statement (which is not inclusion-compatible with CC-By-SA), '''do not use it without obtaining permission from the author'''.

==Non-CC-By-SA content==

=== The Hugo Spoilers ===

The [https://web.archive.org/web/20130601081003/http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/nh/ spoilers created by Kevin Hugo and Dylan O'Donnell] are licensed under a BSD-ish license, which Dylan believes is compatible with this website. The template [[Template:DOD]] should be used on any page which is based on one of the xxxx-343.txt spoilers.

{{DOD}}

=== Rodney ===
A few contributors to [https://alt.org/nethack/rodney-learn.php Rodney] agreed to rerelease their contributions to this wiki under the GNU Free Documentation License. A full list is at [[NetHackWiki:Contributors to Rodney donating to the Wiki]].

You will see this message on pages that have Rodney content:

{{rodney}}

=== NetHack Copyright ===
This wiki contains screen shots, source code, and quotes from the NetHack game itself.

The following copyright applies to NetHack:

&lt;div style="font-size: smaller;"&gt;
NetHack, Copyright 1985-2003&lt;br /&gt;
By Stichting Mathematisch Centrum and M. Stephenson.&lt;br /&gt;
See license for details.
&lt;/div&gt;

The license for NetHack is the [[Project:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]].

Sometimes, you will see this message on [[source code]] and screenshot pages:

{{NGPL}}

Note that unlike the other licenses above, the NetHack General Public License is not compatible with the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike license. So you cannot add your own contributions to this wiki under the NetHack license, unless you also multilicense under CC-By-SA.

Older versions of Hack and NetHack carry what we call the [[CWI license]], and carry the following message:

{{CWI}}
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]</text>
      <sha1>h6n02myp3gy55tmq7vothzt131o9k20</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Category:Websites</title>
    <ns>14</ns>
    <id>15</id>
    <revision>
      <id>7</id>
      <timestamp>2005-10-13T20:44:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>64.89.171.55</ip>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="89">&lt;UL&gt;Public Nethack Servers
&lt;LI&gt;&lt;A HREF="http://nethack.alt.org"&gt;nethack.alt.org&lt;/A&gt;
&lt;/UL&gt;</text>
      <sha1>6774iok87ikudgd8whsj4f9470n06il</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>8</id>
      <parentid>7</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-10-13T20:45:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>64.89.171.55</ip>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="35">[http://nethack.alt.org link title]</text>
      <sha1>8asj9zljq9gl5r6mla8syle1tq7w3f3</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>119</id>
      <parentid>8</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-10-13T20:46:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>64.89.171.55</ip>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="62">[http://nethack.alt.org Nethack.alt.org Public Nethack Server]</text>
      <sha1>n63so37dqpb92chg47s3l75bvveblft</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>182</id>
      <parentid>119</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-12-13T20:23:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>explain use of category; [[Category:Articles]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="214">There are many websites about NetHack, including official site at http://www.nethack.org and the sites listed in this category.

[http://alt.org/nethack Nethack.alt.org Public Nethack Server]

[[Category:Articles]]</text>
      <sha1>limrvaic6zgj3qklsvv2sm974nhnj5f</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>4889</id>
      <parentid>182</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-13T17:50:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>recat: [[Category:Community]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="215">There are many websites about NetHack, including official site at http://www.nethack.org and the sites listed in this category.

[http://alt.org/nethack Nethack.alt.org Public Nethack Server]

[[Category:Community]]</text>
      <sha1>2n4wmk16bh9bes4p4tp0x3joo0asnk3</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>106773</id>
      <parentid>4889</parentid>
      <timestamp>2017-08-20T13:24:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Bcode</username>
        <id>4000180</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Text replacement - "http://alt.org" to "https://alt.org"</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="216">There are many websites about NetHack, including official site at http://www.nethack.org and the sites listed in this category.

[https://alt.org/nethack Nethack.alt.org Public Nethack Server]

[[Category:Community]]</text>
      <sha1>2re1mx6mne417e8xfse98m7pujwa917</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171317</id>
      <parentid>106773</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-20T23:55:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>http -&gt; https for nethack.org. nethack.org emits red-letter warning for http.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="217">There are many websites about NetHack, including official site at https://www.nethack.org and the sites listed in this category.

[https://alt.org/nethack Nethack.alt.org Public Nethack Server]

[[Category:Community]]</text>
      <sha1>k3k4mpxthyhlh4thyh2rbp3agq2a9pc</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171318</id>
      <parentid>171317</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-20T23:56:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Header text does not need nethack.alt.org line; nethack.alt.org is properly there in the site listing.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="152">There are many websites about NetHack, including official site at https://www.nethack.org and the sites listed in this category.

[[Category:Community]]</text>
      <sha1>7ulnulpx05x9xfp0mnjgy09z7c4mvag</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171320</id>
      <parentid>171318</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-20T23:58:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Umbire the Phantom</username>
        <id>4001279</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>copyedit, nover</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="177">There are many websites about ''[[NetHack]]'', including the official site at https://www.nethack.org and the sites listed in this category.
{{noversion}}
[[Category:Community]]</text>
      <sha1>q5cw71i5v8jv5odpa8mxvmg0wski1me</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>Amazing Ascensions</title>
    <ns>0</ns>
    <id>16</id>
    <redirect title="Notable ascensions" />
    <revision>
      <id>46</id>
      <timestamp>2005-10-14T07:35:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>131.111.8.98</ip>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="133">[http://groups.google.co.uk/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/ce027402edf203d5?dmode=source Foodless atheist survivor, by marvin]</text>
      <sha1>eijd5m8mzmssctww47rlybayktf4lec</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>183</id>
      <parentid>46</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-12-10T01:08:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>#redirect [[Ascension]] where I moved the external link on this page</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="23">#redirect [[Ascension]]</text>
      <sha1>0fuwxuk2mcvuxt1d436fhvydlgk6gl4</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>23906</id>
      <parentid>183</parentid>
      <timestamp>2007-12-21T06:56:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Otenko</username>
        <id>620</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Changed the redirect to Notable ascensions.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="32">#redirect [[Notable_ascensions]]</text>
      <sha1>pl1167bnb7180o8dqdfoyy3s6r6roq7</sha1>
    </revision>
  </page>
  <page>
    <title>NetHackWiki:Community Portal</title>
    <ns>4</ns>
    <id>17</id>
    <revision>
      <id>11</id>
      <timestamp>2005-10-14T09:54:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="62">Welcome!

Ask or answer questions on the [[Wikihack:FAQ|FAQ]].</text>
      <sha1>lrjr052jdxcl8o3m5x4ltk18d40l983</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>38</id>
      <parentid>11</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-10-14T13:21:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="252">Welcome!

Ask or answer questions on the [[Wikihack:FAQ|FAQ]].

Other nethack communities include:

* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup (See [[rgrn]])
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net</text>
      <sha1>r2i0af4rl1dri4d39a49wluekass645</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>184</id>
      <parentid>38</parentid>
      <timestamp>2005-12-10T00:21:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>first post to the community portal discussion; {{community}}</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="762">{{community}}

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki (similar to community portals at other wikis or [[Wikibooks:Wikibooks:Staff lounge]]).

This wiki has a [[Wikihack:FAQ|FAQ]].

Other nethack communities include:

* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup (See [[rgrn]])
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net

== Post below this line ==

Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>tsz23nlvex8zec71sf7wthy07t6p9kp</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>1660</id>
      <parentid>184</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-02-15T06:22:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>50 articles!</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="854">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki (similar to community portals at other wikis or [[Wikibooks:Wikibooks:Staff lounge]]).

This wiki has a [[Wikihack:FAQ|FAQ]].

Other nethack communities include:

* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup (See [[rgrn]])
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net

== Post below this line ==

Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>qzpo0mpnjnulub2d6uajr63jrkqk833</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>1673</id>
      <parentid>1660</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-02-15T17:47:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>80.4.224.5</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Post below this line */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="1373">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki (similar to community portals at other wikis or [[Wikibooks:Wikibooks:Staff lounge]]).

This wiki has a [[Wikihack:FAQ|FAQ]].

Other nethack communities include:

* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup (See [[rgrn]])
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net

== Post below this line ==

Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>j4y5v9mvbkeypayyemifehbaevcyu8u</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>1791</id>
      <parentid>1673</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-02-19T20:58:41Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The thing</username>
        <id>816</id>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="1373">{{community}} [[Category:Fikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki (similar to community portals at other wikis or [[Wikibooks:Wikibooks:Staff lounge]]).

This wiki has a [[Wikihack:FAQ|FAQ]].

Other nethack communities include:

* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup (See [[rgrn]])
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net

== Post below this line ==

Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>4udem3sjdhz835j0i75cpqfuoct51y7</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>1793</id>
      <parentid>1791</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-02-19T20:59:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The thing</username>
        <id>816</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Wikihack:Community Portal moved to Fikihack:Community Portal</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="1373">{{community}} [[Category:Fikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki (similar to community portals at other wikis or [[Wikibooks:Wikibooks:Staff lounge]]).

This wiki has a [[Wikihack:FAQ|FAQ]].

Other nethack communities include:

* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup (See [[rgrn]])
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net

== Post below this line ==

Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>4udem3sjdhz835j0i75cpqfuoct51y7</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>1795</id>
      <parentid>1793</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-02-19T21:00:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>The thing</username>
        <id>816</id>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="1373">{{community}} [[Category:Fikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki (similar to community portals at other wikis or [[Fikibooks:Fikibooks:Staff lounge]]).

This fiki has a [[Fikihack:FAQ|FAQ]].

Other nethack communities include:

* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup (See [[rgrn]])
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net

== Post below this line ==

Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Fikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>j8tm1q1xodb69o0raauwdbpm544xgse</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>1827</id>
      <parentid>1795</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-02-20T05:47:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Fikihack:Community Portal moved to Wikihack:Community Portal</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="1373">{{community}} [[Category:Fikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki (similar to community portals at other wikis or [[Fikibooks:Fikibooks:Staff lounge]]).

This fiki has a [[Fikihack:FAQ|FAQ]].

Other nethack communities include:

* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup (See [[rgrn]])
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net

== Post below this line ==

Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Fikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>j8tm1q1xodb69o0raauwdbpm544xgse</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>1844</id>
      <parentid>1827</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-02-20T05:54:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>revert vandalism</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="1373">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki (similar to community portals at other wikis or [[Wikibooks:Wikibooks:Staff lounge]]).

This wiki has a [[Wikihack:FAQ|FAQ]].

Other nethack communities include:

* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup (See [[rgrn]])
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net

== Post below this line ==

Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>j4y5v9mvbkeypayyemifehbaevcyu8u</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2026</id>
      <parentid>1844</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-04-08T20:54:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Mindspillage</username>
        <id>547</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>new sysops</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="1693">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki (similar to community portals at other wikis or [[Wikibooks:Wikibooks:Staff lounge]]).

This wiki has a [[Wikihack:FAQ|FAQ]].

Other nethack communities include:

* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup (See [[rgrn]])
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net

== Post below this line ==

Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>bi8iwdwzcvkv7do0rxsjscytnxo67ea</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2512</id>
      <parentid>2026</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-04-30T00:28:38Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Reorganise the top of the portal. (I still need to test both the nethack-l at wikia.com mailing list and the "Post a new section" link.)</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="1825">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>olq7iat3pj0pv547hkm0dnl27hixo58</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2513</id>
      <parentid>2512</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-04-30T01:48:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Nethack-l Mailing List</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="2402">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>lgrzr6pembuwyexl80kwrl3vfs9x8px</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2818</id>
      <parentid>2513</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-05-15T04:09:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Wikihack logo</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3247">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>l7tv9h5vbq07xqlsf0t1gci78mbg8ua</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2828</id>
      <parentid>2818</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-05-15T20:31:04Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Lotte</username>
        <id>509</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Images from the Windows version?</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="3476">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>272hde15zrdf2ouhorhurvlvk7fvx9j</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2830</id>
      <parentid>2828</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-05-16T03:46:59Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Images from the Windows version? */ I can upload [[:Image:Vanilla tiles.png]] but not yet in separate files.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4351">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>bt26u6nf3rn1shcifpam2f0973o5tbj</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>2885</id>
      <parentid>2830</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-05-20T11:03:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Wikihack logo */ took it in use</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4650">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ifjaxkigc0kpxwa8zsj4nhgzwfsgm6m</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>3313</id>
      <parentid>2885</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-06-05T16:57:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Lotte</username>
        <id>509</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Images from the Windows version? */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4744">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>leioh1hlz8mug53w3kucebs0r43u47p</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>3314</id>
      <parentid>3313</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-06-05T19:27:24Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>80.4.224.8</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Images from the Windows version? */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="5047">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:80.4.224.8|80.4.224.8]] 19:27, 5 June 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ofsetjbc4sah2q58ohxwr06b3byhpj1</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>3315</id>
      <parentid>3314</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-06-05T19:28:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>logged in to add my proper signature</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="5035">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ryhtw1mh5d9c49tb88re4rnz0f414t9</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>3332</id>
      <parentid>3315</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-06-05T22:33:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Images from the Windows version? */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="5314">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>a2j604xukvgg6lzj8kkouo4nf2bnij1</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>3429</id>
      <parentid>3332</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-06-07T15:55:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Images from the Windows version? */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="5593">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>e01mgq6onx1zfw49m3pdfdx2f14toj8</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>3435</id>
      <parentid>3429</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-06-07T16:47:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>A model article</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="5912">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>f6m1xvrjqd8iwu8qphwnoyn8i9oi3g8</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>3440</id>
      <parentid>3435</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-06-07T19:29:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* A model article */ my views</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="6388">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>282mnfamq042kf82opp43ya4lvcoxd5</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>3441</id>
      <parentid>3440</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-06-07T19:40:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Images from the Windows version? */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="6889">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>pe2kl7ufkpj2qjvrv64ik9e2x7f1lp1</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>3443</id>
      <parentid>3441</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-06-07T21:33:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Lotte</username>
        <id>509</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* A model article */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="7107">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>fe79xp8yan0pvl2ea7yu18l1b520z9n</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>3446</id>
      <parentid>3443</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-06-07T23:53:24Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>PraetorFenix</username>
        <id>649</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* ASCII templates */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="7670">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)


::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>86jx5yata15u9i8va546cm7fqwox33m</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>3476</id>
      <parentid>3446</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-06-08T21:04:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* ASCII templates */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="8010">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)


::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>34dsd3suerlyluwinlczfhvyxfj8awy</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>3479</id>
      <parentid>3476</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-06-08T21:16:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* A model article */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="8603">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)


::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>01it5t31ou1yljxr7yu3gljuwgrndv3</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>3511</id>
      <parentid>3479</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-06-08T23:11:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* ASCII templates */ enlarged the font in the templates</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="9105">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>edlugmksdbue5g7ztmza3x7lxu2rjg2</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>3515</id>
      <parentid>3511</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-06-08T23:41:41Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* A model article */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="9925">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>s9haxu7s2qy7av1xoahkh1rfjpqwa52</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>3770</id>
      <parentid>3515</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-06-10T21:34:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* A model article */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="10263">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>25zer7nohb74ult5i29s8271ra1s0pe</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>3796</id>
      <parentid>3770</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-06-11T23:00:01Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Post below this line */ 400 articles!</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="10361">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>arjuu105stutlft1jhinjo06pkk0yu5</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>3797</id>
      <parentid>3796</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-06-11T23:16:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* A model article */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="11306">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>oi466anbr2583505xm8g0a2puybloph</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>3801</id>
      <parentid>3797</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-06-11T23:30:36Z</timestamp>
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      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="11937">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>dosuqch0hsi2ir9quqrv2afyj0dm90v</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>3804</id>
      <parentid>3801</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-06-12T00:13:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>PraetorFenix</username>
        <id>649</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Images from the Windows version? */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="13487">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
----

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>cz15o8inc0t7c4jmerbq2xyqkdhh876</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>3810</id>
      <parentid>3804</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-06-12T10:18:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* A model article */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="14390">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
----

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>s0fzoebs01y7zx73td1sfjn2insqppg</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>3822</id>
      <parentid>3810</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-06-12T18:49:37Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Adminship request</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="15004">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
----

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Adminship request ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>tvxe4pds1trof9pqt7kighn9sg1o4sq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>3831</id>
      <parentid>3822</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-06-12T21:44:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Adminship request */ source code</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="16018">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
----

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Adminship request ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>k1913c1ufqzbvge35mepewq0c4wq4i7</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>3852</id>
      <parentid>3831</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-06-13T22:10:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Adminship request */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="16667">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
----

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>8pl45t6w0dnm74059kjdhjpeyodsdfj</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>3884</id>
      <parentid>3852</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-06-16T23:10:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Images from the Windows version? */ reply to PraetorFenix</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="17395">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think we only need the larger versions. They can be reduced, but enlarging small images is problematic. Also, naming the images just by coordinates is, in my opinion, not a good idea. It becomes hard to find the correct image if they ever need to be changed or something. It would be better if the images were properly named, such as ''soldierant.png'' or ''hellhoundpup.png''. I understand it would be easy to create a script to chop the large file and name the files by the coordinates, but still. Many images are also messy (at least to my eye that is used to the ASCII graphics) and you just cannot recognize what is in it. The row-col -scheme wouldn't help in that case. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>55i0gz3fjx9x6665smz8dm4ek9tt6bg</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>3916</id>
      <parentid>3884</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-06-18T08:36:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>PraetorFenix</username>
        <id>649</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Images from the Windows version? */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="17807">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think we only need the larger versions. They can be reduced, but enlarging small images is problematic. Also, naming the images just by coordinates is, in my opinion, not a good idea. It becomes hard to find the correct image if they ever need to be changed or something. It would be better if the images were properly named, such as ''soldierant.png'' or ''hellhoundpup.png''. I understand it would be easy to create a script to chop the large file and name the files by the coordinates, but still. Many images are also messy (at least to my eye that is used to the ASCII graphics) and you just cannot recognize what is in it. The row-col -scheme wouldn't help in that case. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::The problem is that the larger tiles consist of entirely different images. They are not larger versions of the x16 tiles. [[Image:Tiles32.png|thumb|right|x32 tiles after conversion to PNG]] I've uploaded the x32 tiles for reference. I understand your point about naming. In keeping with Lotte's effort I think we should stick with the x16 vanilla tiles. After all they are the standard that ships w/ NetHack.

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>95mcl7n98vjdqyi5lfw8jh6g5kmxtg2</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>3925</id>
      <parentid>3916</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-06-18T23:45:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Lotte</username>
        <id>509</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Images from the Windows version? */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="18000">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think we only need the larger versions. They can be reduced, but enlarging small images is problematic. Also, naming the images just by coordinates is, in my opinion, not a good idea. It becomes hard to find the correct image if they ever need to be changed or something. It would be better if the images were properly named, such as ''soldierant.png'' or ''hellhoundpup.png''. I understand it would be easy to create a script to chop the large file and name the files by the coordinates, but still. Many images are also messy (at least to my eye that is used to the ASCII graphics) and you just cannot recognize what is in it. The row-col -scheme wouldn't help in that case. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::The problem is that the larger tiles consist of entirely different images. They are not larger versions of the x16 tiles. [[Image:Tiles32.png|thumb|right|x32 tiles after conversion to PNG]] I've uploaded the x32 tiles for reference. I understand your point about naming. In keeping with Lotte's effort I think we should stick with the x16 vanilla tiles. After all they are the standard that ships w/ NetHack.

::I'm personally in favor of using the vanilla tiles, but in any case we should figure out which we're doing now before we add many more images. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>qktzmyvmhxqrqx5plb5f5mfl55f6brm</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>3961</id>
      <parentid>3925</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-06-21T04:32:53Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Adminship request */ No one has commented? If there are no comments then I expect to flag Jayt as a sysop later today. --~~~~</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="18154">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think we only need the larger versions. They can be reduced, but enlarging small images is problematic. Also, naming the images just by coordinates is, in my opinion, not a good idea. It becomes hard to find the correct image if they ever need to be changed or something. It would be better if the images were properly named, such as ''soldierant.png'' or ''hellhoundpup.png''. I understand it would be easy to create a script to chop the large file and name the files by the coordinates, but still. Many images are also messy (at least to my eye that is used to the ASCII graphics) and you just cannot recognize what is in it. The row-col -scheme wouldn't help in that case. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::The problem is that the larger tiles consist of entirely different images. They are not larger versions of the x16 tiles. [[Image:Tiles32.png|thumb|right|x32 tiles after conversion to PNG]] I've uploaded the x32 tiles for reference. I understand your point about naming. In keeping with Lotte's effort I think we should stick with the x16 vanilla tiles. After all they are the standard that ships w/ NetHack.

::I'm personally in favor of using the vanilla tiles, but in any case we should figure out which we're doing now before we add many more images. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

: No one has commented? If there are no comments then I expect to flag Jayt as a sysop later today. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>t0lhmsbrsnb6bl704vted6umgbeqkm0</sha1>
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    <revision>
      <id>4213</id>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="18177">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
8082476838252924148869

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think we only need the larger versions. They can be reduced, but enlarging small images is problematic. Also, naming the images just by coordinates is, in my opinion, not a good idea. It becomes hard to find the correct image if they ever need to be changed or something. It would be better if the images were properly named, such as ''soldierant.png'' or ''hellhoundpup.png''. I understand it would be easy to create a script to chop the large file and name the files by the coordinates, but still. Many images are also messy (at least to my eye that is used to the ASCII graphics) and you just cannot recognize what is in it. The row-col -scheme wouldn't help in that case. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::The problem is that the larger tiles consist of entirely different images. They are not larger versions of the x16 tiles. [[Image:Tiles32.png|thumb|right|x32 tiles after conversion to PNG]] I've uploaded the x32 tiles for reference. I understand your point about naming. In keeping with Lotte's effort I think we should stick with the x16 vanilla tiles. After all they are the standard that ships w/ NetHack.

::I'm personally in favor of using the vanilla tiles, but in any case we should figure out which we're doing now before we add many more images. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

: No one has commented? If there are no comments then I expect to flag Jayt as a sysop later today. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>3akw8wo7m76skgw9opbv7ppe83vfxr2</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>4223</id>
      <parentid>4213</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-06-25T03:47:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>PraetorFenix</username>
        <id>649</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Community Projects Page, revert spam</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="18928">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think we only need the larger versions. They can be reduced, but enlarging small images is problematic. Also, naming the images just by coordinates is, in my opinion, not a good idea. It becomes hard to find the correct image if they ever need to be changed or something. It would be better if the images were properly named, such as ''soldierant.png'' or ''hellhoundpup.png''. I understand it would be easy to create a script to chop the large file and name the files by the coordinates, but still. Many images are also messy (at least to my eye that is used to the ASCII graphics) and you just cannot recognize what is in it. The row-col -scheme wouldn't help in that case. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::The problem is that the larger tiles consist of entirely different images. They are not larger versions of the x16 tiles. [[Image:Tiles32.png|thumb|right|x32 tiles after conversion to PNG]] I've uploaded the x32 tiles for reference. I understand your point about naming. In keeping with Lotte's effort I think we should stick with the x16 vanilla tiles. After all they are the standard that ships w/ NetHack.

::I'm personally in favor of using the vanilla tiles, but in any case we should figure out which we're doing now before we add many more images. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

: No one has commented? If there are no comments then I expect to flag Jayt as a sysop later today. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

=== Community Projects Page ===
It would be nice to have a list of current [[Community Projects]] that would act as an addendum to the '''Articles Wanted''' page. For instance Jayt is working on the standardization of objects, Lotte is working on the upload nethack graphics. It would be nice to have a list of these projects and their end goals.

On a related note we should also create a reference page, or [[Style Guide]], that discusses the format the articles should be in and acts as a guide to beginners (like me) who need a handy place to view a list of available templates and such. For instance, I'm having trouble finding a list of the available table formats (i.e.: wikitable, prettytable, etc).

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 03:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>n1w1q8vss4ihz19lb5g58ilgu5l5kzf</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>4224</id>
      <parentid>4223</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-06-25T03:48:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>PraetorFenix</username>
        <id>649</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="18926">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think we only need the larger versions. They can be reduced, but enlarging small images is problematic. Also, naming the images just by coordinates is, in my opinion, not a good idea. It becomes hard to find the correct image if they ever need to be changed or something. It would be better if the images were properly named, such as ''soldierant.png'' or ''hellhoundpup.png''. I understand it would be easy to create a script to chop the large file and name the files by the coordinates, but still. Many images are also messy (at least to my eye that is used to the ASCII graphics) and you just cannot recognize what is in it. The row-col -scheme wouldn't help in that case. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::The problem is that the larger tiles consist of entirely different images. They are not larger versions of the x16 tiles. [[Image:Tiles32.png|thumb|right|x32 tiles after conversion to PNG]] I've uploaded the x32 tiles for reference. I understand your point about naming. In keeping with Lotte's effort I think we should stick with the x16 vanilla tiles. After all they are the standard that ships w/ NetHack.

::I'm personally in favor of using the vanilla tiles, but in any case we should figure out which we're doing now before we add many more images. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

: No one has commented? If there are no comments then I expect to flag Jayt as a sysop later today. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

== Community Projects Page ==
It would be nice to have a list of current [[Community Projects]] that would act as an addendum to the '''Articles Wanted''' page. For instance Jayt is working on the standardization of objects, Lotte is working on the upload nethack graphics. It would be nice to have a list of these projects and their end goals.

On a related note we should also create a reference page, or [[Style Guide]], that discusses the format the articles should be in and acts as a guide to beginners (like me) who need a handy place to view a list of available templates and such. For instance, I'm having trouble finding a list of the available table formats (i.e.: wikitable, prettytable, etc).

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 03:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>j1sqj6oo2cs0ptyojcad89cajzu0qjy</sha1>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="19077">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think we only need the larger versions. They can be reduced, but enlarging small images is problematic. Also, naming the images just by coordinates is, in my opinion, not a good idea. It becomes hard to find the correct image if they ever need to be changed or something. It would be better if the images were properly named, such as ''soldierant.png'' or ''hellhoundpup.png''. I understand it would be easy to create a script to chop the large file and name the files by the coordinates, but still. Many images are also messy (at least to my eye that is used to the ASCII graphics) and you just cannot recognize what is in it. The row-col -scheme wouldn't help in that case. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::The problem is that the larger tiles consist of entirely different images. They are not larger versions of the x16 tiles. [[Image:Tiles32.png|thumb|right|x32 tiles after conversion to PNG]] I've uploaded the x32 tiles for reference. I understand your point about naming. In keeping with Lotte's effort I think we should stick with the x16 vanilla tiles. After all they are the standard that ships w/ NetHack.

::I'm personally in favor of using the vanilla tiles, but in any case we should figure out which we're doing now before we add many more images. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

: No one has commented? If there are no comments then I expect to flag Jayt as a sysop later today. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

== Community Projects Page ==
It would be nice to have a list of current [[Community Projects]] that would act as an addendum to the '''Articles Wanted''' page. For instance Jayt is working on the standardization of objects, Lotte is working on the upload nethack graphics. It would be nice to have a list of these projects and their end goals.

On a related note we should also create a reference page, or [[Style Guide]], that discusses the format the articles should be in and acts as a guide to beginners (like me) who need a handy place to view a list of available templates and such. For instance, I'm having trouble finding a list of the available table formats (i.e.: wikitable, prettytable, etc).

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 03:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
: Good idea. I moved it to [[Wikihack:Current projects]] and will expand a bit on page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:22, 25 June 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>pbgkbrknyyrd86f4b1ei8dogl65oqjp</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>4246</id>
      <parentid>4242</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-06-25T19:12:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Community Projects Page */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="19252">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think we only need the larger versions. They can be reduced, but enlarging small images is problematic. Also, naming the images just by coordinates is, in my opinion, not a good idea. It becomes hard to find the correct image if they ever need to be changed or something. It would be better if the images were properly named, such as ''soldierant.png'' or ''hellhoundpup.png''. I understand it would be easy to create a script to chop the large file and name the files by the coordinates, but still. Many images are also messy (at least to my eye that is used to the ASCII graphics) and you just cannot recognize what is in it. The row-col -scheme wouldn't help in that case. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::The problem is that the larger tiles consist of entirely different images. They are not larger versions of the x16 tiles. [[Image:Tiles32.png|thumb|right|x32 tiles after conversion to PNG]] I've uploaded the x32 tiles for reference. I understand your point about naming. In keeping with Lotte's effort I think we should stick with the x16 vanilla tiles. After all they are the standard that ships w/ NetHack.

::I'm personally in favor of using the vanilla tiles, but in any case we should figure out which we're doing now before we add many more images. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

: No one has commented? If there are no comments then I expect to flag Jayt as a sysop later today. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

== Community Projects Page ==
It would be nice to have a list of current [[Community Projects]] that would act as an addendum to the '''Articles Wanted''' page. For instance Jayt is working on the standardization of objects, Lotte is working on the upload nethack graphics. It would be nice to have a list of these projects and their end goals.

On a related note we should also create a reference page, or [[Style Guide]], that discusses the format the articles should be in and acts as a guide to beginners (like me) who need a handy place to view a list of available templates and such. For instance, I'm having trouble finding a list of the available table formats (i.e.: wikitable, prettytable, etc).

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 03:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
: Good idea. I moved it to [[Wikihack:Current projects]] and will expand a bit on page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:22, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::Actually, I seem to have created a [[Wikihack:style guide|style guide]] in the process of writing about page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>sxtbcb9wixcqgnk1nzoc8hw0nuxih2u</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>4627</id>
      <parentid>4246</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-07T04:35:44Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>The Artifact... should [[artifact]] article names start with "The "?</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="19770">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think we only need the larger versions. They can be reduced, but enlarging small images is problematic. Also, naming the images just by coordinates is, in my opinion, not a good idea. It becomes hard to find the correct image if they ever need to be changed or something. It would be better if the images were properly named, such as ''soldierant.png'' or ''hellhoundpup.png''. I understand it would be easy to create a script to chop the large file and name the files by the coordinates, but still. Many images are also messy (at least to my eye that is used to the ASCII graphics) and you just cannot recognize what is in it. The row-col -scheme wouldn't help in that case. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::The problem is that the larger tiles consist of entirely different images. They are not larger versions of the x16 tiles. [[Image:Tiles32.png|thumb|right|x32 tiles after conversion to PNG]] I've uploaded the x32 tiles for reference. I understand your point about naming. In keeping with Lotte's effort I think we should stick with the x16 vanilla tiles. After all they are the standard that ships w/ NetHack.

::I'm personally in favor of using the vanilla tiles, but in any case we should figure out which we're doing now before we add many more images. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

: No one has commented? If there are no comments then I expect to flag Jayt as a sysop later today. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

== Community Projects Page ==
It would be nice to have a list of current [[Community Projects]] that would act as an addendum to the '''Articles Wanted''' page. For instance Jayt is working on the standardization of objects, Lotte is working on the upload nethack graphics. It would be nice to have a list of these projects and their end goals.

On a related note we should also create a reference page, or [[Style Guide]], that discusses the format the articles should be in and acts as a guide to beginners (like me) who need a handy place to view a list of available templates and such. For instance, I'm having trouble finding a list of the available table formats (i.e.: wikitable, prettytable, etc).

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 03:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
: Good idea. I moved it to [[Wikihack:Current projects]] and will expand a bit on page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:22, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::Actually, I seem to have created a [[Wikihack:style guide|style guide]] in the process of writing about page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

== The Artifact... should [[artifact]] article names start with "The "? ==

We now have two articles: [[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]] and [[Tsurugi of Muramasa]]. And [[The Eye of the Aethiopica]] exists, leaving the links at [[Special:Whatlinkshere/Eye of the Aethiopica]] all broken.

It is true that [[NetHack]] includes "The " in its artifact names. We at [[Wikihack]] need to decide how to name the articles in [[:Category:Artifacts]] and how to handle the links. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:35, 7 July 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>b6vkdgonnz1e3dw0zwpn83txusj3rut</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>4634</id>
      <parentid>4627</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-07T05:23:38Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Community Projects Page */ I added [[Wikihack:Current projects]] to our '''navigation sidebar''' on the left (by editing [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]]), because I thought that it was important enough. --~~</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="19992">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think we only need the larger versions. They can be reduced, but enlarging small images is problematic. Also, naming the images just by coordinates is, in my opinion, not a good idea. It becomes hard to find the correct image if they ever need to be changed or something. It would be better if the images were properly named, such as ''soldierant.png'' or ''hellhoundpup.png''. I understand it would be easy to create a script to chop the large file and name the files by the coordinates, but still. Many images are also messy (at least to my eye that is used to the ASCII graphics) and you just cannot recognize what is in it. The row-col -scheme wouldn't help in that case. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::The problem is that the larger tiles consist of entirely different images. They are not larger versions of the x16 tiles. [[Image:Tiles32.png|thumb|right|x32 tiles after conversion to PNG]] I've uploaded the x32 tiles for reference. I understand your point about naming. In keeping with Lotte's effort I think we should stick with the x16 vanilla tiles. After all they are the standard that ships w/ NetHack.

::I'm personally in favor of using the vanilla tiles, but in any case we should figure out which we're doing now before we add many more images. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

: No one has commented? If there are no comments then I expect to flag Jayt as a sysop later today. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

== Community Projects Page ==
It would be nice to have a list of current [[Community Projects]] that would act as an addendum to the '''Articles Wanted''' page. For instance Jayt is working on the standardization of objects, Lotte is working on the upload nethack graphics. It would be nice to have a list of these projects and their end goals.

On a related note we should also create a reference page, or [[Style Guide]], that discusses the format the articles should be in and acts as a guide to beginners (like me) who need a handy place to view a list of available templates and such. For instance, I'm having trouble finding a list of the available table formats (i.e.: wikitable, prettytable, etc).

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 03:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
: Good idea. I moved it to [[Wikihack:Current projects]] and will expand a bit on page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:22, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::Actually, I seem to have created a [[Wikihack:style guide|style guide]] in the process of writing about page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::: I added [[Wikihack:Current projects]] to our '''navigation sidebar''' on the left (by editing [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]]), because I thought that it was important enough. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

== The Artifact... should [[artifact]] article names start with "The "? ==

We now have two articles: [[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]] and [[Tsurugi of Muramasa]]. And [[The Eye of the Aethiopica]] exists, leaving the links at [[Special:Whatlinkshere/Eye of the Aethiopica]] all broken.

It is true that [[NetHack]] includes "The " in its artifact names. We at [[Wikihack]] need to decide how to name the articles in [[:Category:Artifacts]] and how to handle the links. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:35, 7 July 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>mi9wje3qmv1hz38tlmx2751k7qpo1w2</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>4658</id>
      <parentid>4634</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-08T16:48:48Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* The Artifact... should [[artifact]] article names start with "The "? */ "XXX" article using '''The XXX'''.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="20256">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think we only need the larger versions. They can be reduced, but enlarging small images is problematic. Also, naming the images just by coordinates is, in my opinion, not a good idea. It becomes hard to find the correct image if they ever need to be changed or something. It would be better if the images were properly named, such as ''soldierant.png'' or ''hellhoundpup.png''. I understand it would be easy to create a script to chop the large file and name the files by the coordinates, but still. Many images are also messy (at least to my eye that is used to the ASCII graphics) and you just cannot recognize what is in it. The row-col -scheme wouldn't help in that case. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::The problem is that the larger tiles consist of entirely different images. They are not larger versions of the x16 tiles. [[Image:Tiles32.png|thumb|right|x32 tiles after conversion to PNG]] I've uploaded the x32 tiles for reference. I understand your point about naming. In keeping with Lotte's effort I think we should stick with the x16 vanilla tiles. After all they are the standard that ships w/ NetHack.

::I'm personally in favor of using the vanilla tiles, but in any case we should figure out which we're doing now before we add many more images. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

: No one has commented? If there are no comments then I expect to flag Jayt as a sysop later today. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

== Community Projects Page ==
It would be nice to have a list of current [[Community Projects]] that would act as an addendum to the '''Articles Wanted''' page. For instance Jayt is working on the standardization of objects, Lotte is working on the upload nethack graphics. It would be nice to have a list of these projects and their end goals.

On a related note we should also create a reference page, or [[Style Guide]], that discusses the format the articles should be in and acts as a guide to beginners (like me) who need a handy place to view a list of available templates and such. For instance, I'm having trouble finding a list of the available table formats (i.e.: wikitable, prettytable, etc).

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 03:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
: Good idea. I moved it to [[Wikihack:Current projects]] and will expand a bit on page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:22, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::Actually, I seem to have created a [[Wikihack:style guide|style guide]] in the process of writing about page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::: I added [[Wikihack:Current projects]] to our '''navigation sidebar''' on the left (by editing [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]]), because I thought that it was important enough. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

== The Artifact... should [[artifact]] article names start with "The "? ==

We now have two articles: [[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]] and [[Tsurugi of Muramasa]]. And [[The Eye of the Aethiopica]] exists, leaving the links at [[Special:Whatlinkshere/Eye of the Aethiopica]] all broken.

It is true that [[NetHack]] includes "The " in its artifact names. We at [[Wikihack]] need to decide how to name the articles in [[:Category:Artifacts]] and how to handle the links. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:35, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

''Update:'' My current approach is to redirect "The XXX" to "XXX". This will cause a minor improvement in categories (not everything starts with T). Then in the "XXX" article, I bold '''The XXX''' at the start. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:48, 8 July 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>l65uawrhvh83hnt39y3vvjutllihyw6</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>4659</id>
      <parentid>4658</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-08T16:54:13Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eidolos</username>
        <id>239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* The Artifact... should [[artifact]] article names start with "The "? */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="20403">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think we only need the larger versions. They can be reduced, but enlarging small images is problematic. Also, naming the images just by coordinates is, in my opinion, not a good idea. It becomes hard to find the correct image if they ever need to be changed or something. It would be better if the images were properly named, such as ''soldierant.png'' or ''hellhoundpup.png''. I understand it would be easy to create a script to chop the large file and name the files by the coordinates, but still. Many images are also messy (at least to my eye that is used to the ASCII graphics) and you just cannot recognize what is in it. The row-col -scheme wouldn't help in that case. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::The problem is that the larger tiles consist of entirely different images. They are not larger versions of the x16 tiles. [[Image:Tiles32.png|thumb|right|x32 tiles after conversion to PNG]] I've uploaded the x32 tiles for reference. I understand your point about naming. In keeping with Lotte's effort I think we should stick with the x16 vanilla tiles. After all they are the standard that ships w/ NetHack.

::I'm personally in favor of using the vanilla tiles, but in any case we should figure out which we're doing now before we add many more images. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

: No one has commented? If there are no comments then I expect to flag Jayt as a sysop later today. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

== Community Projects Page ==
It would be nice to have a list of current [[Community Projects]] that would act as an addendum to the '''Articles Wanted''' page. For instance Jayt is working on the standardization of objects, Lotte is working on the upload nethack graphics. It would be nice to have a list of these projects and their end goals.

On a related note we should also create a reference page, or [[Style Guide]], that discusses the format the articles should be in and acts as a guide to beginners (like me) who need a handy place to view a list of available templates and such. For instance, I'm having trouble finding a list of the available table formats (i.e.: wikitable, prettytable, etc).

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 03:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
: Good idea. I moved it to [[Wikihack:Current projects]] and will expand a bit on page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:22, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::Actually, I seem to have created a [[Wikihack:style guide|style guide]] in the process of writing about page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::: I added [[Wikihack:Current projects]] to our '''navigation sidebar''' on the left (by editing [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]]), because I thought that it was important enough. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

== The Artifact... should [[artifact]] article names start with "The "? ==

We now have two articles: [[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]] and [[Tsurugi of Muramasa]]. And [[The Eye of the Aethiopica]] exists, leaving the links at [[Special:Whatlinkshere/Eye of the Aethiopica]] all broken.

It is true that [[NetHack]] includes "The " in its artifact names. We at [[Wikihack]] need to decide how to name the articles in [[:Category:Artifacts]] and how to handle the links. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:35, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

''Update:'' My current approach is to redirect "The XXX" to "XXX". This will cause a minor improvement in categories (not everything starts with T). Then in the "XXX" article, I bold '''The XXX''' at the start. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:48, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

: I feel somewhat responsible for the "The XXX" naming scheme -- I think this solution is fine. [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:54, 8 July 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>1w72bnpbomql8t87mcy6ydpquv87qny</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>4664</id>
      <parentid>4659</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-08T17:25:04Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
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        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* The Artifact... should [[artifact]] article names start with "The "? */ some yes, some no</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="20957">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think we only need the larger versions. They can be reduced, but enlarging small images is problematic. Also, naming the images just by coordinates is, in my opinion, not a good idea. It becomes hard to find the correct image if they ever need to be changed or something. It would be better if the images were properly named, such as ''soldierant.png'' or ''hellhoundpup.png''. I understand it would be easy to create a script to chop the large file and name the files by the coordinates, but still. Many images are also messy (at least to my eye that is used to the ASCII graphics) and you just cannot recognize what is in it. The row-col -scheme wouldn't help in that case. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::The problem is that the larger tiles consist of entirely different images. They are not larger versions of the x16 tiles. [[Image:Tiles32.png|thumb|right|x32 tiles after conversion to PNG]] I've uploaded the x32 tiles for reference. I understand your point about naming. In keeping with Lotte's effort I think we should stick with the x16 vanilla tiles. After all they are the standard that ships w/ NetHack.

::I'm personally in favor of using the vanilla tiles, but in any case we should figure out which we're doing now before we add many more images. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

: No one has commented? If there are no comments then I expect to flag Jayt as a sysop later today. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

== Community Projects Page ==
It would be nice to have a list of current [[Community Projects]] that would act as an addendum to the '''Articles Wanted''' page. For instance Jayt is working on the standardization of objects, Lotte is working on the upload nethack graphics. It would be nice to have a list of these projects and their end goals.

On a related note we should also create a reference page, or [[Style Guide]], that discusses the format the articles should be in and acts as a guide to beginners (like me) who need a handy place to view a list of available templates and such. For instance, I'm having trouble finding a list of the available table formats (i.e.: wikitable, prettytable, etc).

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 03:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
: Good idea. I moved it to [[Wikihack:Current projects]] and will expand a bit on page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:22, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::Actually, I seem to have created a [[Wikihack:style guide|style guide]] in the process of writing about page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::: I added [[Wikihack:Current projects]] to our '''navigation sidebar''' on the left (by editing [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]]), because I thought that it was important enough. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

== The Artifact... should [[artifact]] article names start with "The "? ==

We now have two articles: [[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]] and [[Tsurugi of Muramasa]]. And [[The Eye of the Aethiopica]] exists, leaving the links at [[Special:Whatlinkshere/Eye of the Aethiopica]] all broken.

It is true that [[NetHack]] includes "The " in its artifact names. We at [[Wikihack]] need to decide how to name the articles in [[:Category:Artifacts]] and how to handle the links. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:35, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

''Update:'' My current approach is to redirect "The XXX" to "XXX". This will cause a minor improvement in categories (not everything starts with T). Then in the "XXX" article, I bold '''The XXX''' at the start. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:48, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

: I feel somewhat responsible for the "The XXX" naming scheme -- I think this solution is fine. [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:54, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:It's mostly a non-issue thanks to redirects, but I would prefer the following:
:Artifact weapons have simple nouns for names, so they don't need to be called, e.g. "The Grayswandir", but all the quest artifacts are compound (hence countable) nouns, and require "the" in ordinary speech. We don't say "I think Eyes of the Overworld are better than Orb of Fate". So I think artifact weapons should not use The, and other arifacts should. This corresponds to their names in the source ([[artilist.h#line43]]) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 8 July 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>rxdx6g6hedvgel87nrz6j8mbil2zyt8</sha1>
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      <comment>/* The Artifact... should [[artifact]] article names start with "The "? */ Agree, follow [[artilist.h]].</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="21328">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think we only need the larger versions. They can be reduced, but enlarging small images is problematic. Also, naming the images just by coordinates is, in my opinion, not a good idea. It becomes hard to find the correct image if they ever need to be changed or something. It would be better if the images were properly named, such as ''soldierant.png'' or ''hellhoundpup.png''. I understand it would be easy to create a script to chop the large file and name the files by the coordinates, but still. Many images are also messy (at least to my eye that is used to the ASCII graphics) and you just cannot recognize what is in it. The row-col -scheme wouldn't help in that case. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::The problem is that the larger tiles consist of entirely different images. They are not larger versions of the x16 tiles. [[Image:Tiles32.png|thumb|right|x32 tiles after conversion to PNG]] I've uploaded the x32 tiles for reference. I understand your point about naming. In keeping with Lotte's effort I think we should stick with the x16 vanilla tiles. After all they are the standard that ships w/ NetHack.

::I'm personally in favor of using the vanilla tiles, but in any case we should figure out which we're doing now before we add many more images. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

: No one has commented? If there are no comments then I expect to flag Jayt as a sysop later today. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

== Community Projects Page ==
It would be nice to have a list of current [[Community Projects]] that would act as an addendum to the '''Articles Wanted''' page. For instance Jayt is working on the standardization of objects, Lotte is working on the upload nethack graphics. It would be nice to have a list of these projects and their end goals.

On a related note we should also create a reference page, or [[Style Guide]], that discusses the format the articles should be in and acts as a guide to beginners (like me) who need a handy place to view a list of available templates and such. For instance, I'm having trouble finding a list of the available table formats (i.e.: wikitable, prettytable, etc).

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 03:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
: Good idea. I moved it to [[Wikihack:Current projects]] and will expand a bit on page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:22, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::Actually, I seem to have created a [[Wikihack:style guide|style guide]] in the process of writing about page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::: I added [[Wikihack:Current projects]] to our '''navigation sidebar''' on the left (by editing [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]]), because I thought that it was important enough. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

== The Artifact... should [[artifact]] article names start with "The "? ==

We now have two articles: [[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]] and [[Tsurugi of Muramasa]]. And [[The Eye of the Aethiopica]] exists, leaving the links at [[Special:Whatlinkshere/Eye of the Aethiopica]] all broken.

It is true that [[NetHack]] includes "The " in its artifact names. We at [[Wikihack]] need to decide how to name the articles in [[:Category:Artifacts]] and how to handle the links. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:35, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

''Update:'' My current approach is to redirect "The XXX" to "XXX". This will cause a minor improvement in categories (not everything starts with T). Then in the "XXX" article, I bold '''The XXX''' at the start. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:48, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

: I feel somewhat responsible for the "The XXX" naming scheme -- I think this solution is fine. [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:54, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:It's mostly a non-issue thanks to redirects, but I would prefer the following:
:Artifact weapons have simple nouns for names, so they don't need to be called, e.g. "The Grayswandir", but all the quest artifacts are compound (hence countable) nouns, and require "the" in ordinary speech. We don't say "I think Eyes of the Overworld are better than Orb of Fate". So I think artifact weapons should not use The, and other arifacts should. This corresponds to their names in the source ([[artilist.h#line43]]) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:: I suddenly recalled that we have sortkeys (so in [[The Magic Mirror of Merlin]] one could use &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:Quest artifacts|Magic Mirror of Merlin]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. I now agree with Jayt; we should follow [[artilist.h]]. I should note that some of the artifact quest weapons use "The" ([[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]]). --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:53, 8 July 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>c5w8tbafclpuhgw14p69yp34yus2lxc</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>4688</id>
      <parentid>4673</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-09T10:49:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Commented / uncommented source code categories</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="21867">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think we only need the larger versions. They can be reduced, but enlarging small images is problematic. Also, naming the images just by coordinates is, in my opinion, not a good idea. It becomes hard to find the correct image if they ever need to be changed or something. It would be better if the images were properly named, such as ''soldierant.png'' or ''hellhoundpup.png''. I understand it would be easy to create a script to chop the large file and name the files by the coordinates, but still. Many images are also messy (at least to my eye that is used to the ASCII graphics) and you just cannot recognize what is in it. The row-col -scheme wouldn't help in that case. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::The problem is that the larger tiles consist of entirely different images. They are not larger versions of the x16 tiles. [[Image:Tiles32.png|thumb|right|x32 tiles after conversion to PNG]] I've uploaded the x32 tiles for reference. I understand your point about naming. In keeping with Lotte's effort I think we should stick with the x16 vanilla tiles. After all they are the standard that ships w/ NetHack.

::I'm personally in favor of using the vanilla tiles, but in any case we should figure out which we're doing now before we add many more images. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

: No one has commented? If there are no comments then I expect to flag Jayt as a sysop later today. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

== Community Projects Page ==
It would be nice to have a list of current [[Community Projects]] that would act as an addendum to the '''Articles Wanted''' page. For instance Jayt is working on the standardization of objects, Lotte is working on the upload nethack graphics. It would be nice to have a list of these projects and their end goals.

On a related note we should also create a reference page, or [[Style Guide]], that discusses the format the articles should be in and acts as a guide to beginners (like me) who need a handy place to view a list of available templates and such. For instance, I'm having trouble finding a list of the available table formats (i.e.: wikitable, prettytable, etc).

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 03:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
: Good idea. I moved it to [[Wikihack:Current projects]] and will expand a bit on page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:22, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::Actually, I seem to have created a [[Wikihack:style guide|style guide]] in the process of writing about page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::: I added [[Wikihack:Current projects]] to our '''navigation sidebar''' on the left (by editing [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]]), because I thought that it was important enough. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

== The Artifact... should [[artifact]] article names start with "The "? ==

We now have two articles: [[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]] and [[Tsurugi of Muramasa]]. And [[The Eye of the Aethiopica]] exists, leaving the links at [[Special:Whatlinkshere/Eye of the Aethiopica]] all broken.

It is true that [[NetHack]] includes "The " in its artifact names. We at [[Wikihack]] need to decide how to name the articles in [[:Category:Artifacts]] and how to handle the links. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:35, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

''Update:'' My current approach is to redirect "The XXX" to "XXX". This will cause a minor improvement in categories (not everything starts with T). Then in the "XXX" article, I bold '''The XXX''' at the start. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:48, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

: I feel somewhat responsible for the "The XXX" naming scheme -- I think this solution is fine. [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:54, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:It's mostly a non-issue thanks to redirects, but I would prefer the following:
:Artifact weapons have simple nouns for names, so they don't need to be called, e.g. "The Grayswandir", but all the quest artifacts are compound (hence countable) nouns, and require "the" in ordinary speech. We don't say "I think Eyes of the Overworld are better than Orb of Fate". So I think artifact weapons should not use The, and other arifacts should. This corresponds to their names in the source ([[artilist.h#line43]]) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:: I suddenly recalled that we have sortkeys (so in [[The Magic Mirror of Merlin]] one could use &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:Quest artifacts|Magic Mirror of Merlin]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. I now agree with Jayt; we should follow [[artilist.h]]. I should note that some of the artifact quest weapons use "The" ([[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]]). --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:53, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>9l8tsaoeagpvgs7qp6qnot70pdd0eyg</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>4712</id>
      <parentid>4688</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-10T00:13:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Commented / uncommented source code categories */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="22315">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think we only need the larger versions. They can be reduced, but enlarging small images is problematic. Also, naming the images just by coordinates is, in my opinion, not a good idea. It becomes hard to find the correct image if they ever need to be changed or something. It would be better if the images were properly named, such as ''soldierant.png'' or ''hellhoundpup.png''. I understand it would be easy to create a script to chop the large file and name the files by the coordinates, but still. Many images are also messy (at least to my eye that is used to the ASCII graphics) and you just cannot recognize what is in it. The row-col -scheme wouldn't help in that case. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::The problem is that the larger tiles consist of entirely different images. They are not larger versions of the x16 tiles. [[Image:Tiles32.png|thumb|right|x32 tiles after conversion to PNG]] I've uploaded the x32 tiles for reference. I understand your point about naming. In keeping with Lotte's effort I think we should stick with the x16 vanilla tiles. After all they are the standard that ships w/ NetHack.

::I'm personally in favor of using the vanilla tiles, but in any case we should figure out which we're doing now before we add many more images. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

: No one has commented? If there are no comments then I expect to flag Jayt as a sysop later today. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

== Community Projects Page ==
It would be nice to have a list of current [[Community Projects]] that would act as an addendum to the '''Articles Wanted''' page. For instance Jayt is working on the standardization of objects, Lotte is working on the upload nethack graphics. It would be nice to have a list of these projects and their end goals.

On a related note we should also create a reference page, or [[Style Guide]], that discusses the format the articles should be in and acts as a guide to beginners (like me) who need a handy place to view a list of available templates and such. For instance, I'm having trouble finding a list of the available table formats (i.e.: wikitable, prettytable, etc).

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 03:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
: Good idea. I moved it to [[Wikihack:Current projects]] and will expand a bit on page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:22, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::Actually, I seem to have created a [[Wikihack:style guide|style guide]] in the process of writing about page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::: I added [[Wikihack:Current projects]] to our '''navigation sidebar''' on the left (by editing [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]]), because I thought that it was important enough. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

== The Artifact... should [[artifact]] article names start with "The "? ==

We now have two articles: [[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]] and [[Tsurugi of Muramasa]]. And [[The Eye of the Aethiopica]] exists, leaving the links at [[Special:Whatlinkshere/Eye of the Aethiopica]] all broken.

It is true that [[NetHack]] includes "The " in its artifact names. We at [[Wikihack]] need to decide how to name the articles in [[:Category:Artifacts]] and how to handle the links. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:35, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

''Update:'' My current approach is to redirect "The XXX" to "XXX". This will cause a minor improvement in categories (not everything starts with T). Then in the "XXX" article, I bold '''The XXX''' at the start. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:48, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

: I feel somewhat responsible for the "The XXX" naming scheme -- I think this solution is fine. [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:54, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:It's mostly a non-issue thanks to redirects, but I would prefer the following:
:Artifact weapons have simple nouns for names, so they don't need to be called, e.g. "The Grayswandir", but all the quest artifacts are compound (hence countable) nouns, and require "the" in ordinary speech. We don't say "I think Eyes of the Overworld are better than Orb of Fate". So I think artifact weapons should not use The, and other arifacts should. This corresponds to their names in the source ([[artilist.h#line43]]) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:: I suddenly recalled that we have sortkeys (so in [[The Magic Mirror of Merlin]] one could use &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:Quest artifacts|Magic Mirror of Merlin]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. I now agree with Jayt; we should follow [[artilist.h]]. I should note that some of the artifact quest weapons use "The" ([[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]]). --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:53, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>3g9xvn1e8wzo11tjk3e71xd80n7av8w</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>4735</id>
      <parentid>4712</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-11T02:18:13Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Commented / uncommented source code categories */ I might add percentages.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="22919">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think we only need the larger versions. They can be reduced, but enlarging small images is problematic. Also, naming the images just by coordinates is, in my opinion, not a good idea. It becomes hard to find the correct image if they ever need to be changed or something. It would be better if the images were properly named, such as ''soldierant.png'' or ''hellhoundpup.png''. I understand it would be easy to create a script to chop the large file and name the files by the coordinates, but still. Many images are also messy (at least to my eye that is used to the ASCII graphics) and you just cannot recognize what is in it. The row-col -scheme wouldn't help in that case. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::The problem is that the larger tiles consist of entirely different images. They are not larger versions of the x16 tiles. [[Image:Tiles32.png|thumb|right|x32 tiles after conversion to PNG]] I've uploaded the x32 tiles for reference. I understand your point about naming. In keeping with Lotte's effort I think we should stick with the x16 vanilla tiles. After all they are the standard that ships w/ NetHack.

::I'm personally in favor of using the vanilla tiles, but in any case we should figure out which we're doing now before we add many more images. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

: No one has commented? If there are no comments then I expect to flag Jayt as a sysop later today. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

== Community Projects Page ==
It would be nice to have a list of current [[Community Projects]] that would act as an addendum to the '''Articles Wanted''' page. For instance Jayt is working on the standardization of objects, Lotte is working on the upload nethack graphics. It would be nice to have a list of these projects and their end goals.

On a related note we should also create a reference page, or [[Style Guide]], that discusses the format the articles should be in and acts as a guide to beginners (like me) who need a handy place to view a list of available templates and such. For instance, I'm having trouble finding a list of the available table formats (i.e.: wikitable, prettytable, etc).

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 03:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
: Good idea. I moved it to [[Wikihack:Current projects]] and will expand a bit on page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:22, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::Actually, I seem to have created a [[Wikihack:style guide|style guide]] in the process of writing about page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::: I added [[Wikihack:Current projects]] to our '''navigation sidebar''' on the left (by editing [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]]), because I thought that it was important enough. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

== The Artifact... should [[artifact]] article names start with "The "? ==

We now have two articles: [[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]] and [[Tsurugi of Muramasa]]. And [[The Eye of the Aethiopica]] exists, leaving the links at [[Special:Whatlinkshere/Eye of the Aethiopica]] all broken.

It is true that [[NetHack]] includes "The " in its artifact names. We at [[Wikihack]] need to decide how to name the articles in [[:Category:Artifacts]] and how to handle the links. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:35, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

''Update:'' My current approach is to redirect "The XXX" to "XXX". This will cause a minor improvement in categories (not everything starts with T). Then in the "XXX" article, I bold '''The XXX''' at the start. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:48, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

: I feel somewhat responsible for the "The XXX" naming scheme -- I think this solution is fine. [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:54, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:It's mostly a non-issue thanks to redirects, but I would prefer the following:
:Artifact weapons have simple nouns for names, so they don't need to be called, e.g. "The Grayswandir", but all the quest artifacts are compound (hence countable) nouns, and require "the" in ordinary speech. We don't say "I think Eyes of the Overworld are better than Orb of Fate". So I think artifact weapons should not use The, and other arifacts should. This corresponds to their names in the source ([[artilist.h#line43]]) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:: I suddenly recalled that we have sortkeys (so in [[The Magic Mirror of Merlin]] one could use &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:Quest artifacts|Magic Mirror of Merlin]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. I now agree with Jayt; we should follow [[artilist.h]]. I should note that some of the artifact quest weapons use "The" ([[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]]). --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:53, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>7y65uw84dnl6wu3ye07wbk02733ecu4</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>4737</id>
      <parentid>4735</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-11T02:33:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Commented / uncommented source code categories */ wikibooks concept</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="23552">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think we only need the larger versions. They can be reduced, but enlarging small images is problematic. Also, naming the images just by coordinates is, in my opinion, not a good idea. It becomes hard to find the correct image if they ever need to be changed or something. It would be better if the images were properly named, such as ''soldierant.png'' or ''hellhoundpup.png''. I understand it would be easy to create a script to chop the large file and name the files by the coordinates, but still. Many images are also messy (at least to my eye that is used to the ASCII graphics) and you just cannot recognize what is in it. The row-col -scheme wouldn't help in that case. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::The problem is that the larger tiles consist of entirely different images. They are not larger versions of the x16 tiles. [[Image:Tiles32.png|thumb|right|x32 tiles after conversion to PNG]] I've uploaded the x32 tiles for reference. I understand your point about naming. In keeping with Lotte's effort I think we should stick with the x16 vanilla tiles. After all they are the standard that ships w/ NetHack.

::I'm personally in favor of using the vanilla tiles, but in any case we should figure out which we're doing now before we add many more images. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

: No one has commented? If there are no comments then I expect to flag Jayt as a sysop later today. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

== Community Projects Page ==
It would be nice to have a list of current [[Community Projects]] that would act as an addendum to the '''Articles Wanted''' page. For instance Jayt is working on the standardization of objects, Lotte is working on the upload nethack graphics. It would be nice to have a list of these projects and their end goals.

On a related note we should also create a reference page, or [[Style Guide]], that discusses the format the articles should be in and acts as a guide to beginners (like me) who need a handy place to view a list of available templates and such. For instance, I'm having trouble finding a list of the available table formats (i.e.: wikitable, prettytable, etc).

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 03:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
: Good idea. I moved it to [[Wikihack:Current projects]] and will expand a bit on page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:22, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::Actually, I seem to have created a [[Wikihack:style guide|style guide]] in the process of writing about page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::: I added [[Wikihack:Current projects]] to our '''navigation sidebar''' on the left (by editing [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]]), because I thought that it was important enough. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

== The Artifact... should [[artifact]] article names start with "The "? ==

We now have two articles: [[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]] and [[Tsurugi of Muramasa]]. And [[The Eye of the Aethiopica]] exists, leaving the links at [[Special:Whatlinkshere/Eye of the Aethiopica]] all broken.

It is true that [[NetHack]] includes "The " in its artifact names. We at [[Wikihack]] need to decide how to name the articles in [[:Category:Artifacts]] and how to handle the links. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:35, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

''Update:'' My current approach is to redirect "The XXX" to "XXX". This will cause a minor improvement in categories (not everything starts with T). Then in the "XXX" article, I bold '''The XXX''' at the start. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:48, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

: I feel somewhat responsible for the "The XXX" naming scheme -- I think this solution is fine. [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:54, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:It's mostly a non-issue thanks to redirects, but I would prefer the following:
:Artifact weapons have simple nouns for names, so they don't need to be called, e.g. "The Grayswandir", but all the quest artifacts are compound (hence countable) nouns, and require "the" in ordinary speech. We don't say "I think Eyes of the Overworld are better than Orb of Fate". So I think artifact weapons should not use The, and other arifacts should. This corresponds to their names in the source ([[artilist.h#line43]]) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:: I suddenly recalled that we have sortkeys (so in [[The Magic Mirror of Merlin]] one could use &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:Quest artifacts|Magic Mirror of Merlin]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. I now agree with Jayt; we should follow [[artilist.h]]. I should note that some of the artifact quest weapons use "The" ([[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]]). --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:53, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedicious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>iedcn096ew0czbrnp97q1ujgylfzu65</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>4738</id>
      <parentid>4737</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-11T02:34:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Commented / uncommented source code categories */ typo</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="23550">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think we only need the larger versions. They can be reduced, but enlarging small images is problematic. Also, naming the images just by coordinates is, in my opinion, not a good idea. It becomes hard to find the correct image if they ever need to be changed or something. It would be better if the images were properly named, such as ''soldierant.png'' or ''hellhoundpup.png''. I understand it would be easy to create a script to chop the large file and name the files by the coordinates, but still. Many images are also messy (at least to my eye that is used to the ASCII graphics) and you just cannot recognize what is in it. The row-col -scheme wouldn't help in that case. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::The problem is that the larger tiles consist of entirely different images. They are not larger versions of the x16 tiles. [[Image:Tiles32.png|thumb|right|x32 tiles after conversion to PNG]] I've uploaded the x32 tiles for reference. I understand your point about naming. In keeping with Lotte's effort I think we should stick with the x16 vanilla tiles. After all they are the standard that ships w/ NetHack.

::I'm personally in favor of using the vanilla tiles, but in any case we should figure out which we're doing now before we add many more images. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

: No one has commented? If there are no comments then I expect to flag Jayt as a sysop later today. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

== Community Projects Page ==
It would be nice to have a list of current [[Community Projects]] that would act as an addendum to the '''Articles Wanted''' page. For instance Jayt is working on the standardization of objects, Lotte is working on the upload nethack graphics. It would be nice to have a list of these projects and their end goals.

On a related note we should also create a reference page, or [[Style Guide]], that discusses the format the articles should be in and acts as a guide to beginners (like me) who need a handy place to view a list of available templates and such. For instance, I'm having trouble finding a list of the available table formats (i.e.: wikitable, prettytable, etc).

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 03:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
: Good idea. I moved it to [[Wikihack:Current projects]] and will expand a bit on page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:22, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::Actually, I seem to have created a [[Wikihack:style guide|style guide]] in the process of writing about page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::: I added [[Wikihack:Current projects]] to our '''navigation sidebar''' on the left (by editing [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]]), because I thought that it was important enough. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

== The Artifact... should [[artifact]] article names start with "The "? ==

We now have two articles: [[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]] and [[Tsurugi of Muramasa]]. And [[The Eye of the Aethiopica]] exists, leaving the links at [[Special:Whatlinkshere/Eye of the Aethiopica]] all broken.

It is true that [[NetHack]] includes "The " in its artifact names. We at [[Wikihack]] need to decide how to name the articles in [[:Category:Artifacts]] and how to handle the links. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:35, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

''Update:'' My current approach is to redirect "The XXX" to "XXX". This will cause a minor improvement in categories (not everything starts with T). Then in the "XXX" article, I bold '''The XXX''' at the start. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:48, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

: I feel somewhat responsible for the "The XXX" naming scheme -- I think this solution is fine. [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:54, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:It's mostly a non-issue thanks to redirects, but I would prefer the following:
:Artifact weapons have simple nouns for names, so they don't need to be called, e.g. "The Grayswandir", but all the quest artifacts are compound (hence countable) nouns, and require "the" in ordinary speech. We don't say "I think Eyes of the Overworld are better than Orb of Fate". So I think artifact weapons should not use The, and other arifacts should. This corresponds to their names in the source ([[artilist.h#line43]]) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:: I suddenly recalled that we have sortkeys (so in [[The Magic Mirror of Merlin]] one could use &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:Quest artifacts|Magic Mirror of Merlin]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. I now agree with Jayt; we should follow [[artilist.h]]. I should note that some of the artifact quest weapons use "The" ([[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]]). --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:53, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>c1emc678yodpi6nqdmsr4xsuotfq59a</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>4751</id>
      <parentid>4738</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-11T13:59:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Commented / uncommented source code categories */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="23932">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think we only need the larger versions. They can be reduced, but enlarging small images is problematic. Also, naming the images just by coordinates is, in my opinion, not a good idea. It becomes hard to find the correct image if they ever need to be changed or something. It would be better if the images were properly named, such as ''soldierant.png'' or ''hellhoundpup.png''. I understand it would be easy to create a script to chop the large file and name the files by the coordinates, but still. Many images are also messy (at least to my eye that is used to the ASCII graphics) and you just cannot recognize what is in it. The row-col -scheme wouldn't help in that case. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::The problem is that the larger tiles consist of entirely different images. They are not larger versions of the x16 tiles. [[Image:Tiles32.png|thumb|right|x32 tiles after conversion to PNG]] I've uploaded the x32 tiles for reference. I understand your point about naming. In keeping with Lotte's effort I think we should stick with the x16 vanilla tiles. After all they are the standard that ships w/ NetHack.

::I'm personally in favor of using the vanilla tiles, but in any case we should figure out which we're doing now before we add many more images. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

: No one has commented? If there are no comments then I expect to flag Jayt as a sysop later today. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

== Community Projects Page ==
It would be nice to have a list of current [[Community Projects]] that would act as an addendum to the '''Articles Wanted''' page. For instance Jayt is working on the standardization of objects, Lotte is working on the upload nethack graphics. It would be nice to have a list of these projects and their end goals.

On a related note we should also create a reference page, or [[Style Guide]], that discusses the format the articles should be in and acts as a guide to beginners (like me) who need a handy place to view a list of available templates and such. For instance, I'm having trouble finding a list of the available table formats (i.e.: wikitable, prettytable, etc).

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 03:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
: Good idea. I moved it to [[Wikihack:Current projects]] and will expand a bit on page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:22, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::Actually, I seem to have created a [[Wikihack:style guide|style guide]] in the process of writing about page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::: I added [[Wikihack:Current projects]] to our '''navigation sidebar''' on the left (by editing [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]]), because I thought that it was important enough. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

== The Artifact... should [[artifact]] article names start with "The "? ==

We now have two articles: [[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]] and [[Tsurugi of Muramasa]]. And [[The Eye of the Aethiopica]] exists, leaving the links at [[Special:Whatlinkshere/Eye of the Aethiopica]] all broken.

It is true that [[NetHack]] includes "The " in its artifact names. We at [[Wikihack]] need to decide how to name the articles in [[:Category:Artifacts]] and how to handle the links. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:35, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

''Update:'' My current approach is to redirect "The XXX" to "XXX". This will cause a minor improvement in categories (not everything starts with T). Then in the "XXX" article, I bold '''The XXX''' at the start. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:48, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

: I feel somewhat responsible for the "The XXX" naming scheme -- I think this solution is fine. [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:54, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:It's mostly a non-issue thanks to redirects, but I would prefer the following:
:Artifact weapons have simple nouns for names, so they don't need to be called, e.g. "The Grayswandir", but all the quest artifacts are compound (hence countable) nouns, and require "the" in ordinary speech. We don't say "I think Eyes of the Overworld are better than Orb of Fate". So I think artifact weapons should not use The, and other arifacts should. This corresponds to their names in the source ([[artilist.h#line43]]) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:: I suddenly recalled that we have sortkeys (so in [[The Magic Mirror of Merlin]] one could use &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:Quest artifacts|Magic Mirror of Merlin]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. I now agree with Jayt; we should follow [[artilist.h]]. I should note that some of the artifact quest weapons use "The" ([[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]]). --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:53, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ke8e8gob7ko4gua9nbpz0l9un557xqs</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5050</id>
      <parentid>4751</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-17T23:15:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>221.13.66.161</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Post below this line */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="23945">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
214503979732

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think we only need the larger versions. They can be reduced, but enlarging small images is problematic. Also, naming the images just by coordinates is, in my opinion, not a good idea. It becomes hard to find the correct image if they ever need to be changed or something. It would be better if the images were properly named, such as ''soldierant.png'' or ''hellhoundpup.png''. I understand it would be easy to create a script to chop the large file and name the files by the coordinates, but still. Many images are also messy (at least to my eye that is used to the ASCII graphics) and you just cannot recognize what is in it. The row-col -scheme wouldn't help in that case. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::The problem is that the larger tiles consist of entirely different images. They are not larger versions of the x16 tiles. [[Image:Tiles32.png|thumb|right|x32 tiles after conversion to PNG]] I've uploaded the x32 tiles for reference. I understand your point about naming. In keeping with Lotte's effort I think we should stick with the x16 vanilla tiles. After all they are the standard that ships w/ NetHack.

::I'm personally in favor of using the vanilla tiles, but in any case we should figure out which we're doing now before we add many more images. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

: No one has commented? If there are no comments then I expect to flag Jayt as a sysop later today. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

== Community Projects Page ==
It would be nice to have a list of current [[Community Projects]] that would act as an addendum to the '''Articles Wanted''' page. For instance Jayt is working on the standardization of objects, Lotte is working on the upload nethack graphics. It would be nice to have a list of these projects and their end goals.

On a related note we should also create a reference page, or [[Style Guide]], that discusses the format the articles should be in and acts as a guide to beginners (like me) who need a handy place to view a list of available templates and such. For instance, I'm having trouble finding a list of the available table formats (i.e.: wikitable, prettytable, etc).

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 03:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
: Good idea. I moved it to [[Wikihack:Current projects]] and will expand a bit on page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:22, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::Actually, I seem to have created a [[Wikihack:style guide|style guide]] in the process of writing about page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::: I added [[Wikihack:Current projects]] to our '''navigation sidebar''' on the left (by editing [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]]), because I thought that it was important enough. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

== The Artifact... should [[artifact]] article names start with "The "? ==

We now have two articles: [[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]] and [[Tsurugi of Muramasa]]. And [[The Eye of the Aethiopica]] exists, leaving the links at [[Special:Whatlinkshere/Eye of the Aethiopica]] all broken.

It is true that [[NetHack]] includes "The " in its artifact names. We at [[Wikihack]] need to decide how to name the articles in [[:Category:Artifacts]] and how to handle the links. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:35, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

''Update:'' My current approach is to redirect "The XXX" to "XXX". This will cause a minor improvement in categories (not everything starts with T). Then in the "XXX" article, I bold '''The XXX''' at the start. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:48, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

: I feel somewhat responsible for the "The XXX" naming scheme -- I think this solution is fine. [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:54, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:It's mostly a non-issue thanks to redirects, but I would prefer the following:
:Artifact weapons have simple nouns for names, so they don't need to be called, e.g. "The Grayswandir", but all the quest artifacts are compound (hence countable) nouns, and require "the" in ordinary speech. We don't say "I think Eyes of the Overworld are better than Orb of Fate". So I think artifact weapons should not use The, and other arifacts should. This corresponds to their names in the source ([[artilist.h#line43]]) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:: I suddenly recalled that we have sortkeys (so in [[The Magic Mirror of Merlin]] one could use &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:Quest artifacts|Magic Mirror of Merlin]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. I now agree with Jayt; we should follow [[artilist.h]]. I should note that some of the artifact quest weapons use "The" ([[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]]). --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:53, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>4i4wnqynmvdt82ne8hdf9ikbcz6uagf</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5051</id>
      <parentid>5050</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-17T23:28:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/221.13.66.161|221.13.66.161]] ([[User_talk:221.13.66.161|Talk]]); changed back to last version by [[User:Jayt|Jayt]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="23932">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think we only need the larger versions. They can be reduced, but enlarging small images is problematic. Also, naming the images just by coordinates is, in my opinion, not a good idea. It becomes hard to find the correct image if they ever need to be changed or something. It would be better if the images were properly named, such as ''soldierant.png'' or ''hellhoundpup.png''. I understand it would be easy to create a script to chop the large file and name the files by the coordinates, but still. Many images are also messy (at least to my eye that is used to the ASCII graphics) and you just cannot recognize what is in it. The row-col -scheme wouldn't help in that case. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::The problem is that the larger tiles consist of entirely different images. They are not larger versions of the x16 tiles. [[Image:Tiles32.png|thumb|right|x32 tiles after conversion to PNG]] I've uploaded the x32 tiles for reference. I understand your point about naming. In keeping with Lotte's effort I think we should stick with the x16 vanilla tiles. After all they are the standard that ships w/ NetHack.

::I'm personally in favor of using the vanilla tiles, but in any case we should figure out which we're doing now before we add many more images. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

: No one has commented? If there are no comments then I expect to flag Jayt as a sysop later today. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

== Community Projects Page ==
It would be nice to have a list of current [[Community Projects]] that would act as an addendum to the '''Articles Wanted''' page. For instance Jayt is working on the standardization of objects, Lotte is working on the upload nethack graphics. It would be nice to have a list of these projects and their end goals.

On a related note we should also create a reference page, or [[Style Guide]], that discusses the format the articles should be in and acts as a guide to beginners (like me) who need a handy place to view a list of available templates and such. For instance, I'm having trouble finding a list of the available table formats (i.e.: wikitable, prettytable, etc).

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 03:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
: Good idea. I moved it to [[Wikihack:Current projects]] and will expand a bit on page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:22, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::Actually, I seem to have created a [[Wikihack:style guide|style guide]] in the process of writing about page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::: I added [[Wikihack:Current projects]] to our '''navigation sidebar''' on the left (by editing [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]]), because I thought that it was important enough. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

== The Artifact... should [[artifact]] article names start with "The "? ==

We now have two articles: [[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]] and [[Tsurugi of Muramasa]]. And [[The Eye of the Aethiopica]] exists, leaving the links at [[Special:Whatlinkshere/Eye of the Aethiopica]] all broken.

It is true that [[NetHack]] includes "The " in its artifact names. We at [[Wikihack]] need to decide how to name the articles in [[:Category:Artifacts]] and how to handle the links. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:35, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

''Update:'' My current approach is to redirect "The XXX" to "XXX". This will cause a minor improvement in categories (not everything starts with T). Then in the "XXX" article, I bold '''The XXX''' at the start. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:48, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

: I feel somewhat responsible for the "The XXX" naming scheme -- I think this solution is fine. [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:54, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:It's mostly a non-issue thanks to redirects, but I would prefer the following:
:Artifact weapons have simple nouns for names, so they don't need to be called, e.g. "The Grayswandir", but all the quest artifacts are compound (hence countable) nouns, and require "the" in ordinary speech. We don't say "I think Eyes of the Overworld are better than Orb of Fate". So I think artifact weapons should not use The, and other arifacts should. This corresponds to their names in the source ([[artilist.h#line43]]) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:: I suddenly recalled that we have sortkeys (so in [[The Magic Mirror of Merlin]] one could use &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:Quest artifacts|Magic Mirror of Merlin]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. I now agree with Jayt; we should follow [[artilist.h]]. I should note that some of the artifact quest weapons use "The" ([[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]]). --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:53, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ke8e8gob7ko4gua9nbpz0l9un557xqs</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5060</id>
      <parentid>5051</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-18T17:39:59Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>163.21.25.5</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Post below this line */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="24623">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
 &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;u style="display:none;"&gt;[http://webtest-community.canoo.com/wiki/space/huynani/anal-creampie.html Anal Creampie], 
[http://webtest-community.canoo.com/wiki/space/huynani/ass-creampie.html Ass Creampie], 
[http://webtest-community.canoo.com/wiki/space/huynani/blonde-creampie.html Blonde Creampie], 
[http://webtest-community.canoo.com/wiki/space/huynani/teen-anal-creampie.html Teen Anal Creampie], 
[http://webtest-community.canoo.com/wiki/space/huynani/teen-creampie.html Teen Creampie], 
[http://webtest-community.canoo.com/wiki/space/huynani/teenie-creampie.html Teenie Creampie], 
[http://webtest-community.canoo.com/wiki/space/huynani/young-creampie.html Young Creampie]&lt;/u&gt;

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think we only need the larger versions. They can be reduced, but enlarging small images is problematic. Also, naming the images just by coordinates is, in my opinion, not a good idea. It becomes hard to find the correct image if they ever need to be changed or something. It would be better if the images were properly named, such as ''soldierant.png'' or ''hellhoundpup.png''. I understand it would be easy to create a script to chop the large file and name the files by the coordinates, but still. Many images are also messy (at least to my eye that is used to the ASCII graphics) and you just cannot recognize what is in it. The row-col -scheme wouldn't help in that case. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::The problem is that the larger tiles consist of entirely different images. They are not larger versions of the x16 tiles. [[Image:Tiles32.png|thumb|right|x32 tiles after conversion to PNG]] I've uploaded the x32 tiles for reference. I understand your point about naming. In keeping with Lotte's effort I think we should stick with the x16 vanilla tiles. After all they are the standard that ships w/ NetHack.

::I'm personally in favor of using the vanilla tiles, but in any case we should figure out which we're doing now before we add many more images. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

: No one has commented? If there are no comments then I expect to flag Jayt as a sysop later today. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

== Community Projects Page ==
It would be nice to have a list of current [[Community Projects]] that would act as an addendum to the '''Articles Wanted''' page. For instance Jayt is working on the standardization of objects, Lotte is working on the upload nethack graphics. It would be nice to have a list of these projects and their end goals.

On a related note we should also create a reference page, or [[Style Guide]], that discusses the format the articles should be in and acts as a guide to beginners (like me) who need a handy place to view a list of available templates and such. For instance, I'm having trouble finding a list of the available table formats (i.e.: wikitable, prettytable, etc).

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 03:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
: Good idea. I moved it to [[Wikihack:Current projects]] and will expand a bit on page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:22, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::Actually, I seem to have created a [[Wikihack:style guide|style guide]] in the process of writing about page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::: I added [[Wikihack:Current projects]] to our '''navigation sidebar''' on the left (by editing [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]]), because I thought that it was important enough. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

== The Artifact... should [[artifact]] article names start with "The "? ==

We now have two articles: [[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]] and [[Tsurugi of Muramasa]]. And [[The Eye of the Aethiopica]] exists, leaving the links at [[Special:Whatlinkshere/Eye of the Aethiopica]] all broken.

It is true that [[NetHack]] includes "The " in its artifact names. We at [[Wikihack]] need to decide how to name the articles in [[:Category:Artifacts]] and how to handle the links. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:35, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

''Update:'' My current approach is to redirect "The XXX" to "XXX". This will cause a minor improvement in categories (not everything starts with T). Then in the "XXX" article, I bold '''The XXX''' at the start. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:48, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

: I feel somewhat responsible for the "The XXX" naming scheme -- I think this solution is fine. [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:54, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:It's mostly a non-issue thanks to redirects, but I would prefer the following:
:Artifact weapons have simple nouns for names, so they don't need to be called, e.g. "The Grayswandir", but all the quest artifacts are compound (hence countable) nouns, and require "the" in ordinary speech. We don't say "I think Eyes of the Overworld are better than Orb of Fate". So I think artifact weapons should not use The, and other arifacts should. This corresponds to their names in the source ([[artilist.h#line43]]) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:: I suddenly recalled that we have sortkeys (so in [[The Magic Mirror of Merlin]] one could use &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:Quest artifacts|Magic Mirror of Merlin]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. I now agree with Jayt; we should follow [[artilist.h]]. I should note that some of the artifact quest weapons use "The" ([[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]]). --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:53, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>kx85zfpgq573p67zuvflim7ny1xm0fk</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5061</id>
      <parentid>5060</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-18T19:17:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/163.21.25.5|163.21.25.5]] ([[User_talk:163.21.25.5|Talk]]); changed back to last version by [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="23932">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think we only need the larger versions. They can be reduced, but enlarging small images is problematic. Also, naming the images just by coordinates is, in my opinion, not a good idea. It becomes hard to find the correct image if they ever need to be changed or something. It would be better if the images were properly named, such as ''soldierant.png'' or ''hellhoundpup.png''. I understand it would be easy to create a script to chop the large file and name the files by the coordinates, but still. Many images are also messy (at least to my eye that is used to the ASCII graphics) and you just cannot recognize what is in it. The row-col -scheme wouldn't help in that case. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::The problem is that the larger tiles consist of entirely different images. They are not larger versions of the x16 tiles. [[Image:Tiles32.png|thumb|right|x32 tiles after conversion to PNG]] I've uploaded the x32 tiles for reference. I understand your point about naming. In keeping with Lotte's effort I think we should stick with the x16 vanilla tiles. After all they are the standard that ships w/ NetHack.

::I'm personally in favor of using the vanilla tiles, but in any case we should figure out which we're doing now before we add many more images. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

: No one has commented? If there are no comments then I expect to flag Jayt as a sysop later today. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

== Community Projects Page ==
It would be nice to have a list of current [[Community Projects]] that would act as an addendum to the '''Articles Wanted''' page. For instance Jayt is working on the standardization of objects, Lotte is working on the upload nethack graphics. It would be nice to have a list of these projects and their end goals.

On a related note we should also create a reference page, or [[Style Guide]], that discusses the format the articles should be in and acts as a guide to beginners (like me) who need a handy place to view a list of available templates and such. For instance, I'm having trouble finding a list of the available table formats (i.e.: wikitable, prettytable, etc).

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 03:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
: Good idea. I moved it to [[Wikihack:Current projects]] and will expand a bit on page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:22, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::Actually, I seem to have created a [[Wikihack:style guide|style guide]] in the process of writing about page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::: I added [[Wikihack:Current projects]] to our '''navigation sidebar''' on the left (by editing [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]]), because I thought that it was important enough. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

== The Artifact... should [[artifact]] article names start with "The "? ==

We now have two articles: [[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]] and [[Tsurugi of Muramasa]]. And [[The Eye of the Aethiopica]] exists, leaving the links at [[Special:Whatlinkshere/Eye of the Aethiopica]] all broken.

It is true that [[NetHack]] includes "The " in its artifact names. We at [[Wikihack]] need to decide how to name the articles in [[:Category:Artifacts]] and how to handle the links. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:35, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

''Update:'' My current approach is to redirect "The XXX" to "XXX". This will cause a minor improvement in categories (not everything starts with T). Then in the "XXX" article, I bold '''The XXX''' at the start. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:48, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

: I feel somewhat responsible for the "The XXX" naming scheme -- I think this solution is fine. [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:54, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:It's mostly a non-issue thanks to redirects, but I would prefer the following:
:Artifact weapons have simple nouns for names, so they don't need to be called, e.g. "The Grayswandir", but all the quest artifacts are compound (hence countable) nouns, and require "the" in ordinary speech. We don't say "I think Eyes of the Overworld are better than Orb of Fate". So I think artifact weapons should not use The, and other arifacts should. This corresponds to their names in the source ([[artilist.h#line43]]) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:: I suddenly recalled that we have sortkeys (so in [[The Magic Mirror of Merlin]] one could use &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:Quest artifacts|Magic Mirror of Merlin]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. I now agree with Jayt; we should follow [[artilist.h]]. I should note that some of the artifact quest weapons use "The" ([[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]]). --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:53, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ke8e8gob7ko4gua9nbpz0l9un557xqs</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5121</id>
      <parentid>5061</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-20T17:33:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Lotte</username>
        <id>509</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Dylan O'Donnell spoilers</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="24279">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think we only need the larger versions. They can be reduced, but enlarging small images is problematic. Also, naming the images just by coordinates is, in my opinion, not a good idea. It becomes hard to find the correct image if they ever need to be changed or something. It would be better if the images were properly named, such as ''soldierant.png'' or ''hellhoundpup.png''. I understand it would be easy to create a script to chop the large file and name the files by the coordinates, but still. Many images are also messy (at least to my eye that is used to the ASCII graphics) and you just cannot recognize what is in it. The row-col -scheme wouldn't help in that case. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::The problem is that the larger tiles consist of entirely different images. They are not larger versions of the x16 tiles. [[Image:Tiles32.png|thumb|right|x32 tiles after conversion to PNG]] I've uploaded the x32 tiles for reference. I understand your point about naming. In keeping with Lotte's effort I think we should stick with the x16 vanilla tiles. After all they are the standard that ships w/ NetHack.

::I'm personally in favor of using the vanilla tiles, but in any case we should figure out which we're doing now before we add many more images. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

: No one has commented? If there are no comments then I expect to flag Jayt as a sysop later today. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

== Community Projects Page ==
It would be nice to have a list of current [[Community Projects]] that would act as an addendum to the '''Articles Wanted''' page. For instance Jayt is working on the standardization of objects, Lotte is working on the upload nethack graphics. It would be nice to have a list of these projects and their end goals.

On a related note we should also create a reference page, or [[Style Guide]], that discusses the format the articles should be in and acts as a guide to beginners (like me) who need a handy place to view a list of available templates and such. For instance, I'm having trouble finding a list of the available table formats (i.e.: wikitable, prettytable, etc).

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 03:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
: Good idea. I moved it to [[Wikihack:Current projects]] and will expand a bit on page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:22, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::Actually, I seem to have created a [[Wikihack:style guide|style guide]] in the process of writing about page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::: I added [[Wikihack:Current projects]] to our '''navigation sidebar''' on the left (by editing [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]]), because I thought that it was important enough. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

== The Artifact... should [[artifact]] article names start with "The "? ==

We now have two articles: [[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]] and [[Tsurugi of Muramasa]]. And [[The Eye of the Aethiopica]] exists, leaving the links at [[Special:Whatlinkshere/Eye of the Aethiopica]] all broken.

It is true that [[NetHack]] includes "The " in its artifact names. We at [[Wikihack]] need to decide how to name the articles in [[:Category:Artifacts]] and how to handle the links. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:35, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

''Update:'' My current approach is to redirect "The XXX" to "XXX". This will cause a minor improvement in categories (not everything starts with T). Then in the "XXX" article, I bold '''The XXX''' at the start. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:48, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

: I feel somewhat responsible for the "The XXX" naming scheme -- I think this solution is fine. [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:54, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:It's mostly a non-issue thanks to redirects, but I would prefer the following:
:Artifact weapons have simple nouns for names, so they don't need to be called, e.g. "The Grayswandir", but all the quest artifacts are compound (hence countable) nouns, and require "the" in ordinary speech. We don't say "I think Eyes of the Overworld are better than Orb of Fate". So I think artifact weapons should not use The, and other arifacts should. This corresponds to their names in the source ([[artilist.h#line43]]) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:: I suddenly recalled that we have sortkeys (so in [[The Magic Mirror of Merlin]] one could use &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:Quest artifacts|Magic Mirror of Merlin]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. I now agree with Jayt; we should follow [[artilist.h]]. I should note that some of the artifact quest weapons use "The" ([[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]]). --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:53, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>5rbl119kn6eovnot5ls814vshlw3axh</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5125</id>
      <parentid>5121</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-20T22:24:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Dylan O'Donnell spoilers */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="24899">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think we only need the larger versions. They can be reduced, but enlarging small images is problematic. Also, naming the images just by coordinates is, in my opinion, not a good idea. It becomes hard to find the correct image if they ever need to be changed or something. It would be better if the images were properly named, such as ''soldierant.png'' or ''hellhoundpup.png''. I understand it would be easy to create a script to chop the large file and name the files by the coordinates, but still. Many images are also messy (at least to my eye that is used to the ASCII graphics) and you just cannot recognize what is in it. The row-col -scheme wouldn't help in that case. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::The problem is that the larger tiles consist of entirely different images. They are not larger versions of the x16 tiles. [[Image:Tiles32.png|thumb|right|x32 tiles after conversion to PNG]] I've uploaded the x32 tiles for reference. I understand your point about naming. In keeping with Lotte's effort I think we should stick with the x16 vanilla tiles. After all they are the standard that ships w/ NetHack.

::I'm personally in favor of using the vanilla tiles, but in any case we should figure out which we're doing now before we add many more images. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

: No one has commented? If there are no comments then I expect to flag Jayt as a sysop later today. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

== Community Projects Page ==
It would be nice to have a list of current [[Community Projects]] that would act as an addendum to the '''Articles Wanted''' page. For instance Jayt is working on the standardization of objects, Lotte is working on the upload nethack graphics. It would be nice to have a list of these projects and their end goals.

On a related note we should also create a reference page, or [[Style Guide]], that discusses the format the articles should be in and acts as a guide to beginners (like me) who need a handy place to view a list of available templates and such. For instance, I'm having trouble finding a list of the available table formats (i.e.: wikitable, prettytable, etc).

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 03:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
: Good idea. I moved it to [[Wikihack:Current projects]] and will expand a bit on page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:22, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::Actually, I seem to have created a [[Wikihack:style guide|style guide]] in the process of writing about page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::: I added [[Wikihack:Current projects]] to our '''navigation sidebar''' on the left (by editing [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]]), because I thought that it was important enough. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

== The Artifact... should [[artifact]] article names start with "The "? ==

We now have two articles: [[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]] and [[Tsurugi of Muramasa]]. And [[The Eye of the Aethiopica]] exists, leaving the links at [[Special:Whatlinkshere/Eye of the Aethiopica]] all broken.

It is true that [[NetHack]] includes "The " in its artifact names. We at [[Wikihack]] need to decide how to name the articles in [[:Category:Artifacts]] and how to handle the links. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:35, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

''Update:'' My current approach is to redirect "The XXX" to "XXX". This will cause a minor improvement in categories (not everything starts with T). Then in the "XXX" article, I bold '''The XXX''' at the start. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:48, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

: I feel somewhat responsible for the "The XXX" naming scheme -- I think this solution is fine. [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:54, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:It's mostly a non-issue thanks to redirects, but I would prefer the following:
:Artifact weapons have simple nouns for names, so they don't need to be called, e.g. "The Grayswandir", but all the quest artifacts are compound (hence countable) nouns, and require "the" in ordinary speech. We don't say "I think Eyes of the Overworld are better than Orb of Fate". So I think artifact weapons should not use The, and other arifacts should. This corresponds to their names in the source ([[artilist.h#line43]]) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:: I suddenly recalled that we have sortkeys (so in [[The Magic Mirror of Merlin]] one could use &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:Quest artifacts|Magic Mirror of Merlin]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. I now agree with Jayt; we should follow [[artilist.h]]. I should note that some of the artifact quest weapons use "The" ([[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]]). --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:53, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ezlckfpynukr0f0fpexoyvj49e20xy0</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5299</id>
      <parentid>5125</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-27T19:40:53Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>PraetorFenix</username>
        <id>649</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>WikiHack upload bot</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="25595">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think we only need the larger versions. They can be reduced, but enlarging small images is problematic. Also, naming the images just by coordinates is, in my opinion, not a good idea. It becomes hard to find the correct image if they ever need to be changed or something. It would be better if the images were properly named, such as ''soldierant.png'' or ''hellhoundpup.png''. I understand it would be easy to create a script to chop the large file and name the files by the coordinates, but still. Many images are also messy (at least to my eye that is used to the ASCII graphics) and you just cannot recognize what is in it. The row-col -scheme wouldn't help in that case. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::The problem is that the larger tiles consist of entirely different images. They are not larger versions of the x16 tiles. [[Image:Tiles32.png|thumb|right|x32 tiles after conversion to PNG]] I've uploaded the x32 tiles for reference. I understand your point about naming. In keeping with Lotte's effort I think we should stick with the x16 vanilla tiles. After all they are the standard that ships w/ NetHack.

::I'm personally in favor of using the vanilla tiles, but in any case we should figure out which we're doing now before we add many more images. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

: No one has commented? If there are no comments then I expect to flag Jayt as a sysop later today. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

== Community Projects Page ==
It would be nice to have a list of current [[Community Projects]] that would act as an addendum to the '''Articles Wanted''' page. For instance Jayt is working on the standardization of objects, Lotte is working on the upload nethack graphics. It would be nice to have a list of these projects and their end goals.

On a related note we should also create a reference page, or [[Style Guide]], that discusses the format the articles should be in and acts as a guide to beginners (like me) who need a handy place to view a list of available templates and such. For instance, I'm having trouble finding a list of the available table formats (i.e.: wikitable, prettytable, etc).

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 03:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
: Good idea. I moved it to [[Wikihack:Current projects]] and will expand a bit on page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:22, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::Actually, I seem to have created a [[Wikihack:style guide|style guide]] in the process of writing about page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::: I added [[Wikihack:Current projects]] to our '''navigation sidebar''' on the left (by editing [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]]), because I thought that it was important enough. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

== The Artifact... should [[artifact]] article names start with "The "? ==

We now have two articles: [[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]] and [[Tsurugi of Muramasa]]. And [[The Eye of the Aethiopica]] exists, leaving the links at [[Special:Whatlinkshere/Eye of the Aethiopica]] all broken.

It is true that [[NetHack]] includes "The " in its artifact names. We at [[Wikihack]] need to decide how to name the articles in [[:Category:Artifacts]] and how to handle the links. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:35, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

''Update:'' My current approach is to redirect "The XXX" to "XXX". This will cause a minor improvement in categories (not everything starts with T). Then in the "XXX" article, I bold '''The XXX''' at the start. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:48, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

: I feel somewhat responsible for the "The XXX" naming scheme -- I think this solution is fine. [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:54, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:It's mostly a non-issue thanks to redirects, but I would prefer the following:
:Artifact weapons have simple nouns for names, so they don't need to be called, e.g. "The Grayswandir", but all the quest artifacts are compound (hence countable) nouns, and require "the" in ordinary speech. We don't say "I think Eyes of the Overworld are better than Orb of Fate". So I think artifact weapons should not use The, and other arifacts should. This corresponds to their names in the source ([[artilist.h#line43]]) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:: I suddenly recalled that we have sortkeys (so in [[The Magic Mirror of Merlin]] one could use &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:Quest artifacts|Magic Mirror of Merlin]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. I now agree with Jayt; we should follow [[artilist.h]]. I should note that some of the artifact quest weapons use "The" ([[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]]). --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:53, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>9yjtvkkvuiejfacjeatwpax7npai2sr</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5300</id>
      <parentid>5299</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-27T21:42:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* WikiHack upload bot */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="26281">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think we only need the larger versions. They can be reduced, but enlarging small images is problematic. Also, naming the images just by coordinates is, in my opinion, not a good idea. It becomes hard to find the correct image if they ever need to be changed or something. It would be better if the images were properly named, such as ''soldierant.png'' or ''hellhoundpup.png''. I understand it would be easy to create a script to chop the large file and name the files by the coordinates, but still. Many images are also messy (at least to my eye that is used to the ASCII graphics) and you just cannot recognize what is in it. The row-col -scheme wouldn't help in that case. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::The problem is that the larger tiles consist of entirely different images. They are not larger versions of the x16 tiles. [[Image:Tiles32.png|thumb|right|x32 tiles after conversion to PNG]] I've uploaded the x32 tiles for reference. I understand your point about naming. In keeping with Lotte's effort I think we should stick with the x16 vanilla tiles. After all they are the standard that ships w/ NetHack.

::I'm personally in favor of using the vanilla tiles, but in any case we should figure out which we're doing now before we add many more images. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

: No one has commented? If there are no comments then I expect to flag Jayt as a sysop later today. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

== Community Projects Page ==
It would be nice to have a list of current [[Community Projects]] that would act as an addendum to the '''Articles Wanted''' page. For instance Jayt is working on the standardization of objects, Lotte is working on the upload nethack graphics. It would be nice to have a list of these projects and their end goals.

On a related note we should also create a reference page, or [[Style Guide]], that discusses the format the articles should be in and acts as a guide to beginners (like me) who need a handy place to view a list of available templates and such. For instance, I'm having trouble finding a list of the available table formats (i.e.: wikitable, prettytable, etc).

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 03:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
: Good idea. I moved it to [[Wikihack:Current projects]] and will expand a bit on page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:22, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::Actually, I seem to have created a [[Wikihack:style guide|style guide]] in the process of writing about page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::: I added [[Wikihack:Current projects]] to our '''navigation sidebar''' on the left (by editing [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]]), because I thought that it was important enough. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

== The Artifact... should [[artifact]] article names start with "The "? ==

We now have two articles: [[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]] and [[Tsurugi of Muramasa]]. And [[The Eye of the Aethiopica]] exists, leaving the links at [[Special:Whatlinkshere/Eye of the Aethiopica]] all broken.

It is true that [[NetHack]] includes "The " in its artifact names. We at [[Wikihack]] need to decide how to name the articles in [[:Category:Artifacts]] and how to handle the links. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:35, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

''Update:'' My current approach is to redirect "The XXX" to "XXX". This will cause a minor improvement in categories (not everything starts with T). Then in the "XXX" article, I bold '''The XXX''' at the start. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:48, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

: I feel somewhat responsible for the "The XXX" naming scheme -- I think this solution is fine. [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:54, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:It's mostly a non-issue thanks to redirects, but I would prefer the following:
:Artifact weapons have simple nouns for names, so they don't need to be called, e.g. "The Grayswandir", but all the quest artifacts are compound (hence countable) nouns, and require "the" in ordinary speech. We don't say "I think Eyes of the Overworld are better than Orb of Fate". So I think artifact weapons should not use The, and other arifacts should. This corresponds to their names in the source ([[artilist.h#line43]]) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:: I suddenly recalled that we have sortkeys (so in [[The Magic Mirror of Merlin]] one could use &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:Quest artifacts|Magic Mirror of Merlin]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. I now agree with Jayt; we should follow [[artilist.h]]. I should note that some of the artifact quest weapons use "The" ([[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]]). --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:53, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>11zny1du5yabm0b8k4495z39f7b9ndt</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5312</id>
      <parentid>5300</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-28T12:36:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* How to write a great article */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="26401">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
:The above advice is old. Consider reading the [[Wikihack:Style guide]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:36, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think we only need the larger versions. They can be reduced, but enlarging small images is problematic. Also, naming the images just by coordinates is, in my opinion, not a good idea. It becomes hard to find the correct image if they ever need to be changed or something. It would be better if the images were properly named, such as ''soldierant.png'' or ''hellhoundpup.png''. I understand it would be easy to create a script to chop the large file and name the files by the coordinates, but still. Many images are also messy (at least to my eye that is used to the ASCII graphics) and you just cannot recognize what is in it. The row-col -scheme wouldn't help in that case. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::The problem is that the larger tiles consist of entirely different images. They are not larger versions of the x16 tiles. [[Image:Tiles32.png|thumb|right|x32 tiles after conversion to PNG]] I've uploaded the x32 tiles for reference. I understand your point about naming. In keeping with Lotte's effort I think we should stick with the x16 vanilla tiles. After all they are the standard that ships w/ NetHack.

::I'm personally in favor of using the vanilla tiles, but in any case we should figure out which we're doing now before we add many more images. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

: No one has commented? If there are no comments then I expect to flag Jayt as a sysop later today. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

== Community Projects Page ==
It would be nice to have a list of current [[Community Projects]] that would act as an addendum to the '''Articles Wanted''' page. For instance Jayt is working on the standardization of objects, Lotte is working on the upload nethack graphics. It would be nice to have a list of these projects and their end goals.

On a related note we should also create a reference page, or [[Style Guide]], that discusses the format the articles should be in and acts as a guide to beginners (like me) who need a handy place to view a list of available templates and such. For instance, I'm having trouble finding a list of the available table formats (i.e.: wikitable, prettytable, etc).

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 03:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
: Good idea. I moved it to [[Wikihack:Current projects]] and will expand a bit on page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:22, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::Actually, I seem to have created a [[Wikihack:style guide|style guide]] in the process of writing about page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::: I added [[Wikihack:Current projects]] to our '''navigation sidebar''' on the left (by editing [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]]), because I thought that it was important enough. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

== The Artifact... should [[artifact]] article names start with "The "? ==

We now have two articles: [[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]] and [[Tsurugi of Muramasa]]. And [[The Eye of the Aethiopica]] exists, leaving the links at [[Special:Whatlinkshere/Eye of the Aethiopica]] all broken.

It is true that [[NetHack]] includes "The " in its artifact names. We at [[Wikihack]] need to decide how to name the articles in [[:Category:Artifacts]] and how to handle the links. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:35, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

''Update:'' My current approach is to redirect "The XXX" to "XXX". This will cause a minor improvement in categories (not everything starts with T). Then in the "XXX" article, I bold '''The XXX''' at the start. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:48, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

: I feel somewhat responsible for the "The XXX" naming scheme -- I think this solution is fine. [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:54, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:It's mostly a non-issue thanks to redirects, but I would prefer the following:
:Artifact weapons have simple nouns for names, so they don't need to be called, e.g. "The Grayswandir", but all the quest artifacts are compound (hence countable) nouns, and require "the" in ordinary speech. We don't say "I think Eyes of the Overworld are better than Orb of Fate". So I think artifact weapons should not use The, and other arifacts should. This corresponds to their names in the source ([[artilist.h#line43]]) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:: I suddenly recalled that we have sortkeys (so in [[The Magic Mirror of Merlin]] one could use &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:Quest artifacts|Magic Mirror of Merlin]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. I now agree with Jayt; we should follow [[artilist.h]]. I should note that some of the artifact quest weapons use "The" ([[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]]). --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:53, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>iayi9khmubbx44i291syne7zxgi0yf1</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5345</id>
      <parentid>5312</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-28T19:59:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>PraetorFenix</username>
        <id>649</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* WikiHack upload bot */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="26776">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
:The above advice is old. Consider reading the [[Wikihack:Style guide]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:36, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think we only need the larger versions. They can be reduced, but enlarging small images is problematic. Also, naming the images just by coordinates is, in my opinion, not a good idea. It becomes hard to find the correct image if they ever need to be changed or something. It would be better if the images were properly named, such as ''soldierant.png'' or ''hellhoundpup.png''. I understand it would be easy to create a script to chop the large file and name the files by the coordinates, but still. Many images are also messy (at least to my eye that is used to the ASCII graphics) and you just cannot recognize what is in it. The row-col -scheme wouldn't help in that case. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::The problem is that the larger tiles consist of entirely different images. They are not larger versions of the x16 tiles. [[Image:Tiles32.png|thumb|right|x32 tiles after conversion to PNG]] I've uploaded the x32 tiles for reference. I understand your point about naming. In keeping with Lotte's effort I think we should stick with the x16 vanilla tiles. After all they are the standard that ships w/ NetHack.

::I'm personally in favor of using the vanilla tiles, but in any case we should figure out which we're doing now before we add many more images. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

: No one has commented? If there are no comments then I expect to flag Jayt as a sysop later today. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

== Community Projects Page ==
It would be nice to have a list of current [[Community Projects]] that would act as an addendum to the '''Articles Wanted''' page. For instance Jayt is working on the standardization of objects, Lotte is working on the upload nethack graphics. It would be nice to have a list of these projects and their end goals.

On a related note we should also create a reference page, or [[Style Guide]], that discusses the format the articles should be in and acts as a guide to beginners (like me) who need a handy place to view a list of available templates and such. For instance, I'm having trouble finding a list of the available table formats (i.e.: wikitable, prettytable, etc).

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 03:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
: Good idea. I moved it to [[Wikihack:Current projects]] and will expand a bit on page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:22, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::Actually, I seem to have created a [[Wikihack:style guide|style guide]] in the process of writing about page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::: I added [[Wikihack:Current projects]] to our '''navigation sidebar''' on the left (by editing [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]]), because I thought that it was important enough. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

== The Artifact... should [[artifact]] article names start with "The "? ==

We now have two articles: [[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]] and [[Tsurugi of Muramasa]]. And [[The Eye of the Aethiopica]] exists, leaving the links at [[Special:Whatlinkshere/Eye of the Aethiopica]] all broken.

It is true that [[NetHack]] includes "The " in its artifact names. We at [[Wikihack]] need to decide how to name the articles in [[:Category:Artifacts]] and how to handle the links. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:35, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

''Update:'' My current approach is to redirect "The XXX" to "XXX". This will cause a minor improvement in categories (not everything starts with T). Then in the "XXX" article, I bold '''The XXX''' at the start. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:48, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

: I feel somewhat responsible for the "The XXX" naming scheme -- I think this solution is fine. [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:54, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:It's mostly a non-issue thanks to redirects, but I would prefer the following:
:Artifact weapons have simple nouns for names, so they don't need to be called, e.g. "The Grayswandir", but all the quest artifacts are compound (hence countable) nouns, and require "the" in ordinary speech. We don't say "I think Eyes of the Overworld are better than Orb of Fate". So I think artifact weapons should not use The, and other arifacts should. This corresponds to their names in the source ([[artilist.h#line43]]) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:: I suddenly recalled that we have sortkeys (so in [[The Magic Mirror of Merlin]] one could use &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:Quest artifacts|Magic Mirror of Merlin]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. I now agree with Jayt; we should follow [[artilist.h]]. I should note that some of the artifact quest weapons use "The" ([[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]]). --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:53, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>2kockhbzieqwcfyn5t6ypzpuyay114s</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5347</id>
      <parentid>5345</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-28T21:23:41Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* WikiHack upload bot */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="27273">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
:The above advice is old. Consider reading the [[Wikihack:Style guide]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:36, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think we only need the larger versions. They can be reduced, but enlarging small images is problematic. Also, naming the images just by coordinates is, in my opinion, not a good idea. It becomes hard to find the correct image if they ever need to be changed or something. It would be better if the images were properly named, such as ''soldierant.png'' or ''hellhoundpup.png''. I understand it would be easy to create a script to chop the large file and name the files by the coordinates, but still. Many images are also messy (at least to my eye that is used to the ASCII graphics) and you just cannot recognize what is in it. The row-col -scheme wouldn't help in that case. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::The problem is that the larger tiles consist of entirely different images. They are not larger versions of the x16 tiles. [[Image:Tiles32.png|thumb|right|x32 tiles after conversion to PNG]] I've uploaded the x32 tiles for reference. I understand your point about naming. In keeping with Lotte's effort I think we should stick with the x16 vanilla tiles. After all they are the standard that ships w/ NetHack.

::I'm personally in favor of using the vanilla tiles, but in any case we should figure out which we're doing now before we add many more images. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

: No one has commented? If there are no comments then I expect to flag Jayt as a sysop later today. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

== Community Projects Page ==
It would be nice to have a list of current [[Community Projects]] that would act as an addendum to the '''Articles Wanted''' page. For instance Jayt is working on the standardization of objects, Lotte is working on the upload nethack graphics. It would be nice to have a list of these projects and their end goals.

On a related note we should also create a reference page, or [[Style Guide]], that discusses the format the articles should be in and acts as a guide to beginners (like me) who need a handy place to view a list of available templates and such. For instance, I'm having trouble finding a list of the available table formats (i.e.: wikitable, prettytable, etc).

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 03:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
: Good idea. I moved it to [[Wikihack:Current projects]] and will expand a bit on page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:22, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::Actually, I seem to have created a [[Wikihack:style guide|style guide]] in the process of writing about page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::: I added [[Wikihack:Current projects]] to our '''navigation sidebar''' on the left (by editing [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]]), because I thought that it was important enough. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

== The Artifact... should [[artifact]] article names start with "The "? ==

We now have two articles: [[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]] and [[Tsurugi of Muramasa]]. And [[The Eye of the Aethiopica]] exists, leaving the links at [[Special:Whatlinkshere/Eye of the Aethiopica]] all broken.

It is true that [[NetHack]] includes "The " in its artifact names. We at [[Wikihack]] need to decide how to name the articles in [[:Category:Artifacts]] and how to handle the links. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:35, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

''Update:'' My current approach is to redirect "The XXX" to "XXX". This will cause a minor improvement in categories (not everything starts with T). Then in the "XXX" article, I bold '''The XXX''' at the start. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:48, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

: I feel somewhat responsible for the "The XXX" naming scheme -- I think this solution is fine. [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:54, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:It's mostly a non-issue thanks to redirects, but I would prefer the following:
:Artifact weapons have simple nouns for names, so they don't need to be called, e.g. "The Grayswandir", but all the quest artifacts are compound (hence countable) nouns, and require "the" in ordinary speech. We don't say "I think Eyes of the Overworld are better than Orb of Fate". So I think artifact weapons should not use The, and other arifacts should. This corresponds to their names in the source ([[artilist.h#line43]]) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:: I suddenly recalled that we have sortkeys (so in [[The Magic Mirror of Merlin]] one could use &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:Quest artifacts|Magic Mirror of Merlin]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. I now agree with Jayt; we should follow [[artilist.h]]. I should note that some of the artifact quest weapons use "The" ([[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]]). --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:53, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

--[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>8au2bnaht6sussxnmxycxha6l6yfy89</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5348</id>
      <parentid>5347</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-28T21:24:23Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* WikiHack upload bot */ removed double signature; i'm getting sloppy with Show Preview...</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="27225">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
:The above advice is old. Consider reading the [[Wikihack:Style guide]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:36, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think we only need the larger versions. They can be reduced, but enlarging small images is problematic. Also, naming the images just by coordinates is, in my opinion, not a good idea. It becomes hard to find the correct image if they ever need to be changed or something. It would be better if the images were properly named, such as ''soldierant.png'' or ''hellhoundpup.png''. I understand it would be easy to create a script to chop the large file and name the files by the coordinates, but still. Many images are also messy (at least to my eye that is used to the ASCII graphics) and you just cannot recognize what is in it. The row-col -scheme wouldn't help in that case. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::The problem is that the larger tiles consist of entirely different images. They are not larger versions of the x16 tiles. [[Image:Tiles32.png|thumb|right|x32 tiles after conversion to PNG]] I've uploaded the x32 tiles for reference. I understand your point about naming. In keeping with Lotte's effort I think we should stick with the x16 vanilla tiles. After all they are the standard that ships w/ NetHack.

::I'm personally in favor of using the vanilla tiles, but in any case we should figure out which we're doing now before we add many more images. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

: No one has commented? If there are no comments then I expect to flag Jayt as a sysop later today. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

== Community Projects Page ==
It would be nice to have a list of current [[Community Projects]] that would act as an addendum to the '''Articles Wanted''' page. For instance Jayt is working on the standardization of objects, Lotte is working on the upload nethack graphics. It would be nice to have a list of these projects and their end goals.

On a related note we should also create a reference page, or [[Style Guide]], that discusses the format the articles should be in and acts as a guide to beginners (like me) who need a handy place to view a list of available templates and such. For instance, I'm having trouble finding a list of the available table formats (i.e.: wikitable, prettytable, etc).

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 03:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
: Good idea. I moved it to [[Wikihack:Current projects]] and will expand a bit on page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:22, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::Actually, I seem to have created a [[Wikihack:style guide|style guide]] in the process of writing about page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::: I added [[Wikihack:Current projects]] to our '''navigation sidebar''' on the left (by editing [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]]), because I thought that it was important enough. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

== The Artifact... should [[artifact]] article names start with "The "? ==

We now have two articles: [[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]] and [[Tsurugi of Muramasa]]. And [[The Eye of the Aethiopica]] exists, leaving the links at [[Special:Whatlinkshere/Eye of the Aethiopica]] all broken.

It is true that [[NetHack]] includes "The " in its artifact names. We at [[Wikihack]] need to decide how to name the articles in [[:Category:Artifacts]] and how to handle the links. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:35, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

''Update:'' My current approach is to redirect "The XXX" to "XXX". This will cause a minor improvement in categories (not everything starts with T). Then in the "XXX" article, I bold '''The XXX''' at the start. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:48, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

: I feel somewhat responsible for the "The XXX" naming scheme -- I think this solution is fine. [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:54, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:It's mostly a non-issue thanks to redirects, but I would prefer the following:
:Artifact weapons have simple nouns for names, so they don't need to be called, e.g. "The Grayswandir", but all the quest artifacts are compound (hence countable) nouns, and require "the" in ordinary speech. We don't say "I think Eyes of the Overworld are better than Orb of Fate". So I think artifact weapons should not use The, and other arifacts should. This corresponds to their names in the source ([[artilist.h#line43]]) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:: I suddenly recalled that we have sortkeys (so in [[The Magic Mirror of Merlin]] one could use &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:Quest artifacts|Magic Mirror of Merlin]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. I now agree with Jayt; we should follow [[artilist.h]]. I should note that some of the artifact quest weapons use "The" ([[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]]). --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:53, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>441lysk83zr64yd4by4viw8xkrke5bf</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5361</id>
      <parentid>5348</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-28T22:02:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* WikiHack upload bot */ moved &amp; commented</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="27465">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
:The above advice is old. Consider reading the [[Wikihack:Style guide]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:36, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think we only need the larger versions. They can be reduced, but enlarging small images is problematic. Also, naming the images just by coordinates is, in my opinion, not a good idea. It becomes hard to find the correct image if they ever need to be changed or something. It would be better if the images were properly named, such as ''soldierant.png'' or ''hellhoundpup.png''. I understand it would be easy to create a script to chop the large file and name the files by the coordinates, but still. Many images are also messy (at least to my eye that is used to the ASCII graphics) and you just cannot recognize what is in it. The row-col -scheme wouldn't help in that case. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::The problem is that the larger tiles consist of entirely different images. They are not larger versions of the x16 tiles. [[Image:Tiles32.png|thumb|right|x32 tiles after conversion to PNG]] I've uploaded the x32 tiles for reference. I understand your point about naming. In keeping with Lotte's effort I think we should stick with the x16 vanilla tiles. After all they are the standard that ships w/ NetHack.

::I'm personally in favor of using the vanilla tiles, but in any case we should figure out which we're doing now before we add many more images. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

: No one has commented? If there are no comments then I expect to flag Jayt as a sysop later today. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

== Community Projects Page ==
It would be nice to have a list of current [[Community Projects]] that would act as an addendum to the '''Articles Wanted''' page. For instance Jayt is working on the standardization of objects, Lotte is working on the upload nethack graphics. It would be nice to have a list of these projects and their end goals.

On a related note we should also create a reference page, or [[Style Guide]], that discusses the format the articles should be in and acts as a guide to beginners (like me) who need a handy place to view a list of available templates and such. For instance, I'm having trouble finding a list of the available table formats (i.e.: wikitable, prettytable, etc).

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 03:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
: Good idea. I moved it to [[Wikihack:Current projects]] and will expand a bit on page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:22, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::Actually, I seem to have created a [[Wikihack:style guide|style guide]] in the process of writing about page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::: I added [[Wikihack:Current projects]] to our '''navigation sidebar''' on the left (by editing [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]]), because I thought that it was important enough. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

== The Artifact... should [[artifact]] article names start with "The "? ==

We now have two articles: [[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]] and [[Tsurugi of Muramasa]]. And [[The Eye of the Aethiopica]] exists, leaving the links at [[Special:Whatlinkshere/Eye of the Aethiopica]] all broken.

It is true that [[NetHack]] includes "The " in its artifact names. We at [[Wikihack]] need to decide how to name the articles in [[:Category:Artifacts]] and how to handle the links. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:35, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

''Update:'' My current approach is to redirect "The XXX" to "XXX". This will cause a minor improvement in categories (not everything starts with T). Then in the "XXX" article, I bold '''The XXX''' at the start. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:48, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

: I feel somewhat responsible for the "The XXX" naming scheme -- I think this solution is fine. [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:54, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:It's mostly a non-issue thanks to redirects, but I would prefer the following:
:Artifact weapons have simple nouns for names, so they don't need to be called, e.g. "The Grayswandir", but all the quest artifacts are compound (hence countable) nouns, and require "the" in ordinary speech. We don't say "I think Eyes of the Overworld are better than Orb of Fate". So I think artifact weapons should not use The, and other arifacts should. This corresponds to their names in the source ([[artilist.h#line43]]) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:: I suddenly recalled that we have sortkeys (so in [[The Magic Mirror of Merlin]] one could use &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:Quest artifacts|Magic Mirror of Merlin]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. I now agree with Jayt; we should follow [[artilist.h]]. I should note that some of the artifact quest weapons use "The" ([[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]]). --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:53, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>865yzkkcim6tp0tlvw9qzran6s4gwhv</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5430</id>
      <parentid>5361</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-30T18:08:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}?</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="28620">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
:The above advice is old. Consider reading the [[Wikihack:Style guide]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:36, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think we only need the larger versions. They can be reduced, but enlarging small images is problematic. Also, naming the images just by coordinates is, in my opinion, not a good idea. It becomes hard to find the correct image if they ever need to be changed or something. It would be better if the images were properly named, such as ''soldierant.png'' or ''hellhoundpup.png''. I understand it would be easy to create a script to chop the large file and name the files by the coordinates, but still. Many images are also messy (at least to my eye that is used to the ASCII graphics) and you just cannot recognize what is in it. The row-col -scheme wouldn't help in that case. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::The problem is that the larger tiles consist of entirely different images. They are not larger versions of the x16 tiles. [[Image:Tiles32.png|thumb|right|x32 tiles after conversion to PNG]] I've uploaded the x32 tiles for reference. I understand your point about naming. In keeping with Lotte's effort I think we should stick with the x16 vanilla tiles. After all they are the standard that ships w/ NetHack.

::I'm personally in favor of using the vanilla tiles, but in any case we should figure out which we're doing now before we add many more images. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

: No one has commented? If there are no comments then I expect to flag Jayt as a sysop later today. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

== Community Projects Page ==
It would be nice to have a list of current [[Community Projects]] that would act as an addendum to the '''Articles Wanted''' page. For instance Jayt is working on the standardization of objects, Lotte is working on the upload nethack graphics. It would be nice to have a list of these projects and their end goals.

On a related note we should also create a reference page, or [[Style Guide]], that discusses the format the articles should be in and acts as a guide to beginners (like me) who need a handy place to view a list of available templates and such. For instance, I'm having trouble finding a list of the available table formats (i.e.: wikitable, prettytable, etc).

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 03:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
: Good idea. I moved it to [[Wikihack:Current projects]] and will expand a bit on page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:22, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::Actually, I seem to have created a [[Wikihack:style guide|style guide]] in the process of writing about page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::: I added [[Wikihack:Current projects]] to our '''navigation sidebar''' on the left (by editing [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]]), because I thought that it was important enough. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

== The Artifact... should [[artifact]] article names start with "The "? ==

We now have two articles: [[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]] and [[Tsurugi of Muramasa]]. And [[The Eye of the Aethiopica]] exists, leaving the links at [[Special:Whatlinkshere/Eye of the Aethiopica]] all broken.

It is true that [[NetHack]] includes "The " in its artifact names. We at [[Wikihack]] need to decide how to name the articles in [[:Category:Artifacts]] and how to handle the links. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:35, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

''Update:'' My current approach is to redirect "The XXX" to "XXX". This will cause a minor improvement in categories (not everything starts with T). Then in the "XXX" article, I bold '''The XXX''' at the start. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:48, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

: I feel somewhat responsible for the "The XXX" naming scheme -- I think this solution is fine. [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:54, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:It's mostly a non-issue thanks to redirects, but I would prefer the following:
:Artifact weapons have simple nouns for names, so they don't need to be called, e.g. "The Grayswandir", but all the quest artifacts are compound (hence countable) nouns, and require "the" in ordinary speech. We don't say "I think Eyes of the Overworld are better than Orb of Fate". So I think artifact weapons should not use The, and other arifacts should. This corresponds to their names in the source ([[artilist.h#line43]]) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:: I suddenly recalled that we have sortkeys (so in [[The Magic Mirror of Merlin]] one could use &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:Quest artifacts|Magic Mirror of Merlin]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. I now agree with Jayt; we should follow [[artilist.h]]. I should note that some of the artifact quest weapons use "The" ([[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]]). --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:53, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>mp1eijit7g24mlacob6oprltg1teobi</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5438</id>
      <parentid>5430</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-30T23:47:48Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Lotte</username>
        <id>509</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="28855">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
:The above advice is old. Consider reading the [[Wikihack:Style guide]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:36, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think we only need the larger versions. They can be reduced, but enlarging small images is problematic. Also, naming the images just by coordinates is, in my opinion, not a good idea. It becomes hard to find the correct image if they ever need to be changed or something. It would be better if the images were properly named, such as ''soldierant.png'' or ''hellhoundpup.png''. I understand it would be easy to create a script to chop the large file and name the files by the coordinates, but still. Many images are also messy (at least to my eye that is used to the ASCII graphics) and you just cannot recognize what is in it. The row-col -scheme wouldn't help in that case. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::The problem is that the larger tiles consist of entirely different images. They are not larger versions of the x16 tiles. [[Image:Tiles32.png|thumb|right|x32 tiles after conversion to PNG]] I've uploaded the x32 tiles for reference. I understand your point about naming. In keeping with Lotte's effort I think we should stick with the x16 vanilla tiles. After all they are the standard that ships w/ NetHack.

::I'm personally in favor of using the vanilla tiles, but in any case we should figure out which we're doing now before we add many more images. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

: No one has commented? If there are no comments then I expect to flag Jayt as a sysop later today. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

== Community Projects Page ==
It would be nice to have a list of current [[Community Projects]] that would act as an addendum to the '''Articles Wanted''' page. For instance Jayt is working on the standardization of objects, Lotte is working on the upload nethack graphics. It would be nice to have a list of these projects and their end goals.

On a related note we should also create a reference page, or [[Style Guide]], that discusses the format the articles should be in and acts as a guide to beginners (like me) who need a handy place to view a list of available templates and such. For instance, I'm having trouble finding a list of the available table formats (i.e.: wikitable, prettytable, etc).

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 03:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
: Good idea. I moved it to [[Wikihack:Current projects]] and will expand a bit on page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:22, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::Actually, I seem to have created a [[Wikihack:style guide|style guide]] in the process of writing about page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::: I added [[Wikihack:Current projects]] to our '''navigation sidebar''' on the left (by editing [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]]), because I thought that it was important enough. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

== The Artifact... should [[artifact]] article names start with "The "? ==

We now have two articles: [[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]] and [[Tsurugi of Muramasa]]. And [[The Eye of the Aethiopica]] exists, leaving the links at [[Special:Whatlinkshere/Eye of the Aethiopica]] all broken.

It is true that [[NetHack]] includes "The " in its artifact names. We at [[Wikihack]] need to decide how to name the articles in [[:Category:Artifacts]] and how to handle the links. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:35, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

''Update:'' My current approach is to redirect "The XXX" to "XXX". This will cause a minor improvement in categories (not everything starts with T). Then in the "XXX" article, I bold '''The XXX''' at the start. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:48, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

: I feel somewhat responsible for the "The XXX" naming scheme -- I think this solution is fine. [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:54, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:It's mostly a non-issue thanks to redirects, but I would prefer the following:
:Artifact weapons have simple nouns for names, so they don't need to be called, e.g. "The Grayswandir", but all the quest artifacts are compound (hence countable) nouns, and require "the" in ordinary speech. We don't say "I think Eyes of the Overworld are better than Orb of Fate". So I think artifact weapons should not use The, and other arifacts should. This corresponds to their names in the source ([[artilist.h#line43]]) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:: I suddenly recalled that we have sortkeys (so in [[The Magic Mirror of Merlin]] one could use &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:Quest artifacts|Magic Mirror of Merlin]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. I now agree with Jayt; we should follow [[artilist.h]]. I should note that some of the artifact quest weapons use "The" ([[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]]). --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:53, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>1qahbs4trbr0oo7ql6lkkif7osdjekf</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5490</id>
      <parentid>5438</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-31T09:53:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>PraetorFenix</username>
        <id>649</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* WikiHack upload bot */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="29275">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
:The above advice is old. Consider reading the [[Wikihack:Style guide]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:36, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think we only need the larger versions. They can be reduced, but enlarging small images is problematic. Also, naming the images just by coordinates is, in my opinion, not a good idea. It becomes hard to find the correct image if they ever need to be changed or something. It would be better if the images were properly named, such as ''soldierant.png'' or ''hellhoundpup.png''. I understand it would be easy to create a script to chop the large file and name the files by the coordinates, but still. Many images are also messy (at least to my eye that is used to the ASCII graphics) and you just cannot recognize what is in it. The row-col -scheme wouldn't help in that case. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::The problem is that the larger tiles consist of entirely different images. They are not larger versions of the x16 tiles. [[Image:Tiles32.png|thumb|right|x32 tiles after conversion to PNG]] I've uploaded the x32 tiles for reference. I understand your point about naming. In keeping with Lotte's effort I think we should stick with the x16 vanilla tiles. After all they are the standard that ships w/ NetHack.

::I'm personally in favor of using the vanilla tiles, but in any case we should figure out which we're doing now before we add many more images. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

: No one has commented? If there are no comments then I expect to flag Jayt as a sysop later today. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

== Community Projects Page ==
It would be nice to have a list of current [[Community Projects]] that would act as an addendum to the '''Articles Wanted''' page. For instance Jayt is working on the standardization of objects, Lotte is working on the upload nethack graphics. It would be nice to have a list of these projects and their end goals.

On a related note we should also create a reference page, or [[Style Guide]], that discusses the format the articles should be in and acts as a guide to beginners (like me) who need a handy place to view a list of available templates and such. For instance, I'm having trouble finding a list of the available table formats (i.e.: wikitable, prettytable, etc).

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 03:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
: Good idea. I moved it to [[Wikihack:Current projects]] and will expand a bit on page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:22, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::Actually, I seem to have created a [[Wikihack:style guide|style guide]] in the process of writing about page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::: I added [[Wikihack:Current projects]] to our '''navigation sidebar''' on the left (by editing [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]]), because I thought that it was important enough. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

== The Artifact... should [[artifact]] article names start with "The "? ==

We now have two articles: [[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]] and [[Tsurugi of Muramasa]]. And [[The Eye of the Aethiopica]] exists, leaving the links at [[Special:Whatlinkshere/Eye of the Aethiopica]] all broken.

It is true that [[NetHack]] includes "The " in its artifact names. We at [[Wikihack]] need to decide how to name the articles in [[:Category:Artifacts]] and how to handle the links. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:35, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

''Update:'' My current approach is to redirect "The XXX" to "XXX". This will cause a minor improvement in categories (not everything starts with T). Then in the "XXX" article, I bold '''The XXX''' at the start. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:48, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

: I feel somewhat responsible for the "The XXX" naming scheme -- I think this solution is fine. [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:54, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:It's mostly a non-issue thanks to redirects, but I would prefer the following:
:Artifact weapons have simple nouns for names, so they don't need to be called, e.g. "The Grayswandir", but all the quest artifacts are compound (hence countable) nouns, and require "the" in ordinary speech. We don't say "I think Eyes of the Overworld are better than Orb of Fate". So I think artifact weapons should not use The, and other arifacts should. This corresponds to their names in the source ([[artilist.h#line43]]) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:: I suddenly recalled that we have sortkeys (so in [[The Magic Mirror of Merlin]] one could use &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:Quest artifacts|Magic Mirror of Merlin]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. I now agree with Jayt; we should follow [[artilist.h]]. I should note that some of the artifact quest weapons use "The" ([[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]]). --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:53, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>qitb1vaaax0j0ybhfj90v4j9nxh6odx</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5495</id>
      <parentid>5490</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-31T16:58:18Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? */ Corpse line?</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="29687">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

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Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
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== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
:The above advice is old. Consider reading the [[Wikihack:Style guide]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:36, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think we only need the larger versions. They can be reduced, but enlarging small images is problematic. Also, naming the images just by coordinates is, in my opinion, not a good idea. It becomes hard to find the correct image if they ever need to be changed or something. It would be better if the images were properly named, such as ''soldierant.png'' or ''hellhoundpup.png''. I understand it would be easy to create a script to chop the large file and name the files by the coordinates, but still. Many images are also messy (at least to my eye that is used to the ASCII graphics) and you just cannot recognize what is in it. The row-col -scheme wouldn't help in that case. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::The problem is that the larger tiles consist of entirely different images. They are not larger versions of the x16 tiles. [[Image:Tiles32.png|thumb|right|x32 tiles after conversion to PNG]] I've uploaded the x32 tiles for reference. I understand your point about naming. In keeping with Lotte's effort I think we should stick with the x16 vanilla tiles. After all they are the standard that ships w/ NetHack.

::I'm personally in favor of using the vanilla tiles, but in any case we should figure out which we're doing now before we add many more images. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

: No one has commented? If there are no comments then I expect to flag Jayt as a sysop later today. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

== Community Projects Page ==
It would be nice to have a list of current [[Community Projects]] that would act as an addendum to the '''Articles Wanted''' page. For instance Jayt is working on the standardization of objects, Lotte is working on the upload nethack graphics. It would be nice to have a list of these projects and their end goals.

On a related note we should also create a reference page, or [[Style Guide]], that discusses the format the articles should be in and acts as a guide to beginners (like me) who need a handy place to view a list of available templates and such. For instance, I'm having trouble finding a list of the available table formats (i.e.: wikitable, prettytable, etc).

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 03:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
: Good idea. I moved it to [[Wikihack:Current projects]] and will expand a bit on page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:22, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::Actually, I seem to have created a [[Wikihack:style guide|style guide]] in the process of writing about page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::: I added [[Wikihack:Current projects]] to our '''navigation sidebar''' on the left (by editing [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]]), because I thought that it was important enough. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

== The Artifact... should [[artifact]] article names start with "The "? ==

We now have two articles: [[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]] and [[Tsurugi of Muramasa]]. And [[The Eye of the Aethiopica]] exists, leaving the links at [[Special:Whatlinkshere/Eye of the Aethiopica]] all broken.

It is true that [[NetHack]] includes "The " in its artifact names. We at [[Wikihack]] need to decide how to name the articles in [[:Category:Artifacts]] and how to handle the links. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:35, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

''Update:'' My current approach is to redirect "The XXX" to "XXX". This will cause a minor improvement in categories (not everything starts with T). Then in the "XXX" article, I bold '''The XXX''' at the start. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:48, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

: I feel somewhat responsible for the "The XXX" naming scheme -- I think this solution is fine. [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:54, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:It's mostly a non-issue thanks to redirects, but I would prefer the following:
:Artifact weapons have simple nouns for names, so they don't need to be called, e.g. "The Grayswandir", but all the quest artifacts are compound (hence countable) nouns, and require "the" in ordinary speech. We don't say "I think Eyes of the Overworld are better than Orb of Fate". So I think artifact weapons should not use The, and other arifacts should. This corresponds to their names in the source ([[artilist.h#line43]]) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:: I suddenly recalled that we have sortkeys (so in [[The Magic Mirror of Merlin]] one could use &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:Quest artifacts|Magic Mirror of Merlin]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. I now agree with Jayt; we should follow [[artilist.h]]. I should note that some of the artifact quest weapons use "The" ([[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]]). --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:53, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}</text>
      <sha1>6vi7b9lb3inba3kvcnbnc17g23fz14l</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5502</id>
      <parentid>5495</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-07-31T21:25:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="30027">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
:The above advice is old. Consider reading the [[Wikihack:Style guide]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:36, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think we only need the larger versions. They can be reduced, but enlarging small images is problematic. Also, naming the images just by coordinates is, in my opinion, not a good idea. It becomes hard to find the correct image if they ever need to be changed or something. It would be better if the images were properly named, such as ''soldierant.png'' or ''hellhoundpup.png''. I understand it would be easy to create a script to chop the large file and name the files by the coordinates, but still. Many images are also messy (at least to my eye that is used to the ASCII graphics) and you just cannot recognize what is in it. The row-col -scheme wouldn't help in that case. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::The problem is that the larger tiles consist of entirely different images. They are not larger versions of the x16 tiles. [[Image:Tiles32.png|thumb|right|x32 tiles after conversion to PNG]] I've uploaded the x32 tiles for reference. I understand your point about naming. In keeping with Lotte's effort I think we should stick with the x16 vanilla tiles. After all they are the standard that ships w/ NetHack.

::I'm personally in favor of using the vanilla tiles, but in any case we should figure out which we're doing now before we add many more images. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

: No one has commented? If there are no comments then I expect to flag Jayt as a sysop later today. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

== Community Projects Page ==
It would be nice to have a list of current [[Community Projects]] that would act as an addendum to the '''Articles Wanted''' page. For instance Jayt is working on the standardization of objects, Lotte is working on the upload nethack graphics. It would be nice to have a list of these projects and their end goals.

On a related note we should also create a reference page, or [[Style Guide]], that discusses the format the articles should be in and acts as a guide to beginners (like me) who need a handy place to view a list of available templates and such. For instance, I'm having trouble finding a list of the available table formats (i.e.: wikitable, prettytable, etc).

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 03:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
: Good idea. I moved it to [[Wikihack:Current projects]] and will expand a bit on page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:22, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::Actually, I seem to have created a [[Wikihack:style guide|style guide]] in the process of writing about page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::: I added [[Wikihack:Current projects]] to our '''navigation sidebar''' on the left (by editing [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]]), because I thought that it was important enough. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

== The Artifact... should [[artifact]] article names start with "The "? ==

We now have two articles: [[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]] and [[Tsurugi of Muramasa]]. And [[The Eye of the Aethiopica]] exists, leaving the links at [[Special:Whatlinkshere/Eye of the Aethiopica]] all broken.

It is true that [[NetHack]] includes "The " in its artifact names. We at [[Wikihack]] need to decide how to name the articles in [[:Category:Artifacts]] and how to handle the links. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:35, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

''Update:'' My current approach is to redirect "The XXX" to "XXX". This will cause a minor improvement in categories (not everything starts with T). Then in the "XXX" article, I bold '''The XXX''' at the start. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:48, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

: I feel somewhat responsible for the "The XXX" naming scheme -- I think this solution is fine. [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:54, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:It's mostly a non-issue thanks to redirects, but I would prefer the following:
:Artifact weapons have simple nouns for names, so they don't need to be called, e.g. "The Grayswandir", but all the quest artifacts are compound (hence countable) nouns, and require "the" in ordinary speech. We don't say "I think Eyes of the Overworld are better than Orb of Fate". So I think artifact weapons should not use The, and other arifacts should. This corresponds to their names in the source ([[artilist.h#line43]]) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:: I suddenly recalled that we have sortkeys (so in [[The Magic Mirror of Merlin]] one could use &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:Quest artifacts|Magic Mirror of Merlin]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. I now agree with Jayt; we should follow [[artilist.h]]. I should note that some of the artifact quest weapons use "The" ([[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]]). --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:53, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>0ptfb75cjgyaloty14lcpe3hamcl42v</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>5504</id>
      <parentid>5502</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-08-01T02:40:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="30718">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this community portal to post general discussion about this wiki.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

== Post below this line ==
Put general discussion about this wiki here.

This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

50 articles --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 06:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:400 articles! The 400th article was [[*]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

== How to write a great article ==

There are many many aspects to cover in Wikihack. At the ground level we have the items and monsters in the game. Each article about these should have the following sections: Facts, Commentary, and Strategy. Firstly, we list the facts about the relevant item. Then in Commentary, we draw attention to the implications of these facts. Finally in Strategy, we give useful advice on how to use with or deal with this thing! [[User:80.4.224.5|80.4.224.5]] 17:47, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
:The above advice is old. Consider reading the [[Wikihack:Style guide]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:36, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

==New sysops==
In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== Nethack-l Mailing List ==

Each Wikia has a mailing list: ours is ''nethack-l-at-wikia.com''. I made the [http://lists.wikia.com/pipermail/nethack-l/2006-April/000000.html first post], so it works. For more information, read '''[[Wikia:Mailing lists]]'''. "Posts from non-subscribers may be delayed or accidentally discarded, as they need to be approved by a list administrator to prevent spam."

So if someone emails the list (instead of posting to this Community Portal), I am suscribed so I will eventually read it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

== Wikihack logo ==

&lt;gallery&gt;
Image:Wikihack-cursed-logo.png|This logo from Kernigh is actually a screenshot.
Image:Wikihack logo.png|ZeroOne updated this proposed logo on 13 May 2006.
&lt;/gallery&gt;

I, [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]], noticed in [[Special:Recentchanges]] that [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] recently updated the "wiki@" logo proposal. There was supposed to be a [[Wikihack:Logo contest]], but we never found enough users to vote. There are only two proposals, both shown above.

My logo idea (actually a screenshot when I made the font big) does not work because I could not use mimics. So I propose putting ZeroOne's [[:Image:Wikihack logo.png]] as the logo. (A [[Special:Listusers/sysop|sysop]] would upload the logo to [[:Image:Wiki.png]], a [[w:protection|protected]] page.) Comments? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

:It looks like no one objects so I just took my logo in use. It is also a screenshot taken in wizard mode, I just added that border with Photoshop. You can guess it took some time to get those monsters arrange themselves to form the word "wiki"! --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 11:03, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Images from the Windows version? ==

Anyone know if there's any copyright on images from the Windows tile version? If not, it might be a good idea to upload them to the articles. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 20:31, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

: The tile files are from the [[vanilla]] 3.4.3 sources. Because they are part of vanilla NetHack, they should be copyrighted but licensed under the [[Wikihack:NetHack General Public License|NetHack General Public License]] &lt;tt&gt;dat/license&lt;/tt&gt;, which should make them okay to upload here.

: [[Image:Vanilla tiles.png|thumb|right|These are the tiles after conversion to PNG.]] The tiles live in &lt;tt&gt;win/share&lt;/tt&gt;, but during the build, [[X11]] and [[Qt]] builds convert the tiles to ''.xpm'' format and put them &lt;tt&gt;dat/x11tiles&lt;/tt&gt;. ([[Windows]] builds apparently use ''.bmp'' files.) So I told the image view [[Wikipedia:KView|KView]] to convert the file from ''.xpm'' to ''.png'' format, and uploaded that here.

: The problem now is that to use the tiles in articles, we would need to put them into separate files. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 03:46, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

:: I'm working on it, I have a few up already. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 16:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

----
'''re: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] - Chopping Tiles into small files'''

What I plan on doing is chopping both the 16x16 (vanilla) tiles and the 32x32 tiles into a series of images with names that can be referenced using row, col index. For example the very first tile (ant) is in row 01 and col 01. Its name would be &lt;prefix&gt;&lt;row&gt;-&lt;col&gt; ie: img01-01. The 7th tile across is an acid blob img01-07, soldier img08-01, etc. 

Please tell me if this what you want (good idea/bad idea)? 

If yes, then ideas/suggestions on image format. I see two options for image format. 
# The x16 and x32 tiles in their own files
* Pro
** Allows for lot more control when using in page layout.
** x16 and x32 tiles can be used seperatly. For instance, the x32 tiles on the monsters list page, and both tiles in the page about a specific monster.
* Con
** A lot of small files ~ 2400. (note: many images are duplicates and estimate includes blank, wall, and effect tiles)
# The x16 and x32 tiles merged into one image, ie: [[Image:ch-01-01.png]].
* Pro
** Fewer files ~ 1200, less files to edit if anyone wants to change border, background, etc.
* Con
** Merged image looks slightly tacky.

ideas/suggestions on naming. I am going to call the images (16t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png, 32t&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png) or img&lt;r&gt;-&lt;c&gt;.png depending on image format.

ideas/suggestions on cataloguing. I am planning on making a page with a row, col style grid table displaying all images along with name.

ideas on how to bulk upload.

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 00:13, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:I think we only need the larger versions. They can be reduced, but enlarging small images is problematic. Also, naming the images just by coordinates is, in my opinion, not a good idea. It becomes hard to find the correct image if they ever need to be changed or something. It would be better if the images were properly named, such as ''soldierant.png'' or ''hellhoundpup.png''. I understand it would be easy to create a script to chop the large file and name the files by the coordinates, but still. Many images are also messy (at least to my eye that is used to the ASCII graphics) and you just cannot recognize what is in it. The row-col -scheme wouldn't help in that case. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

::The problem is that the larger tiles consist of entirely different images. They are not larger versions of the x16 tiles. [[Image:Tiles32.png|thumb|right|x32 tiles after conversion to PNG]] I've uploaded the x32 tiles for reference. I understand your point about naming. In keeping with Lotte's effort I think we should stick with the x16 vanilla tiles. After all they are the standard that ships w/ NetHack.

::I'm personally in favor of using the vanilla tiles, but in any case we should figure out which we're doing now before we add many more images. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

==ASCII templates==

:::Good work :) I think we should also have a colour ASCII representation of the item/monster on each page, with a black background, preferably in a large font like on the wikihack logo. It would be nice to do this in HTML; what's the best way? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

::::In my opinion the best way would be to create a template with two parameters: the character and the color. Then we'd just have to decide where to put it. As a large image to the right or somewhere in the text like so far? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
::::: I made some [[:Category:Function_templates|function templates]], though the mechanism for making the font big is a bit clunky. Example elf-lord, leocrotta, Arch-Lich and door: {{brightblue|@}}{{red|q}}{{magenta|L}}{{brown|+}}. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::::::Maybe a second parameter, &lt;tt&gt;small&lt;/tt&gt; or &lt;tt&gt;large&lt;/tt&gt; could be added? &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|large|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would then render like &lt;big style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;&lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/big&gt; and &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{brightblue|small|a}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; would render like &lt;span style="color:#5555FF; background-color:#000000"&gt;a&lt;/span&gt;. This shouldn't be too difficult to do. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I now made the letters larger as I finally found that they were unreadable. No one plays NetHack with that tiny font anyway. It was also hard to see the characters in the dark background when they were small and had no padding around them. I also changed the font to monospaced. The only downside is that making the letters large with &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;span style="font-size: 350%;"&gt;[template here]&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; doesn't work anymore. Do we need it? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

::::I like the idea of showing the ASCII chars that represent game objects. Unfortunately it turns out that the same object is represented by different chars on different systems, see [[Talk:Fountain]]. In addition not all characters can be represented in html, and the colors won't render on a browser that overrides display defaults. 

::::I suggest we decide on a standard set of characters for the game objects and then display them using embedded images Like so... [[Image:ch-01-01.png]]

::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::I mentioned on [[Talk:Fountain]] that we should use the ASCII default characters by default, with a brief mention of alternatives used. Granted, HTML is not perfect, but realistically 99% of browsers respect stylesheets, and people who override them expect to lose colouring info anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:04, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

===Adminship request===

As per the above, I no longer have a specific need for admin powers, but if you, the powers that be (Kernigh, I believe?), want another admin I'd be happy to do the job. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

: No one has commented? If there are no comments then I expect to flag Jayt as a sysop later today. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

== Community Projects Page ==
It would be nice to have a list of current [[Community Projects]] that would act as an addendum to the '''Articles Wanted''' page. For instance Jayt is working on the standardization of objects, Lotte is working on the upload nethack graphics. It would be nice to have a list of these projects and their end goals.

On a related note we should also create a reference page, or [[Style Guide]], that discusses the format the articles should be in and acts as a guide to beginners (like me) who need a handy place to view a list of available templates and such. For instance, I'm having trouble finding a list of the available table formats (i.e.: wikitable, prettytable, etc).

-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 03:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
: Good idea. I moved it to [[Wikihack:Current projects]] and will expand a bit on page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:22, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::Actually, I seem to have created a [[Wikihack:style guide|style guide]] in the process of writing about page standardisation. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
::: I added [[Wikihack:Current projects]] to our '''navigation sidebar''' on the left (by editing [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]]), because I thought that it was important enough. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

== The Artifact... should [[artifact]] article names start with "The "? ==

We now have two articles: [[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]] and [[Tsurugi of Muramasa]]. And [[The Eye of the Aethiopica]] exists, leaving the links at [[Special:Whatlinkshere/Eye of the Aethiopica]] all broken.

It is true that [[NetHack]] includes "The " in its artifact names. We at [[Wikihack]] need to decide how to name the articles in [[:Category:Artifacts]] and how to handle the links. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:35, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

''Update:'' My current approach is to redirect "The XXX" to "XXX". This will cause a minor improvement in categories (not everything starts with T). Then in the "XXX" article, I bold '''The XXX''' at the start. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:48, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

: I feel somewhat responsible for the "The XXX" naming scheme -- I think this solution is fine. [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:54, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:It's mostly a non-issue thanks to redirects, but I would prefer the following:
:Artifact weapons have simple nouns for names, so they don't need to be called, e.g. "The Grayswandir", but all the quest artifacts are compound (hence countable) nouns, and require "the" in ordinary speech. We don't say "I think Eyes of the Overworld are better than Orb of Fate". So I think artifact weapons should not use The, and other arifacts should. This corresponds to their names in the source ([[artilist.h#line43]]) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:: I suddenly recalled that we have sortkeys (so in [[The Magic Mirror of Merlin]] one could use &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:Quest artifacts|Magic Mirror of Merlin]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. I now agree with Jayt; we should follow [[artilist.h]]. I should note that some of the artifact quest weapons use "The" ([[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]]). --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:53, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>qa3n9qi6dirin9aevgcnb3sb20owm42</sha1>
    </revision>
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      <contributor>
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        <id>649</id>
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      <comment>monster template, code annot, and others</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="19954">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use page to discuss general topics with wikiHack members. The other way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list].

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Culled dead topics ==
This page was getting really long and bogging down my browser, so I've cleaned up the dead topics.

==New sysops==
This wiki was inactive recently. I have recently joined and will probably work in the project namespace before I start working in the main namespace. You can look at [[Wikibooks:NetHack]], where I havee previously contributed. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:21, 10 Dec 2005 (UTC)

In order to help maintain the wiki, since it seems the founder is inactive, I've made [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] and [[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] sysops, and Kernigh a bureaucrat. Happy editing, [[Wikia:User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[Wikia:User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 20:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

== A model article ==

I've made an extensive article about the [[potion of object detection]]. Any suggestions or improvements? I think we should make a model article for each "type" of object or monster, and I think this one is pretty much what we want it to look like. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 16:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:I'd like to get rid of the "spoiler-look" (''xyz-343.txt'') in all articles and replace those parts with running prose text. Otherwise this wiki becomes just a YASMS (Yet Another Spoiler Mirror Site, an acronym I just made up). Also listing the symbol and weight for each potion is rather needless, because they are the same for each one. After all, there is a general article about [[potion]]s and another on [[weight]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::Yeah, needs more prose. I'd actually prefer depending as little as possible on already public spoilers - after all, they all come from the same source: the source code. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 21:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
----
::I rearranged the table to put the symbol at the top. I envisage a similar table for ''every'' item in the game, and weight is a standard property of every item, so in the interest of consistency between item articles, I think both symbol and weight deserve a place.

::I too am keen to develop a wiki-look instead of falling back on the Hugo spoilers, but as it stands the xxxx-343.txt text is brilliantly designed; it's clear, concise and comprehensive. I am struggling to create anything better, but I would welcome any attempt to do so. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:16, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

:::It bothers me that some of those files are divided into two, like wan1-343.txt and wan2-343.txt. The information can be presented in one wikipage nicely. Listing all possible given messages (''"You sense the presence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the presence of something."  (hallucinating); "You sense the absence of objects."  (not hallucinating); "You sense the absence of something."  (hallucinating)'') also seems unnecessary. Who identifies stuff while confused, anyway? If someone really needs all those messages, they can go check the spoiler. Then there are lists like
  hits monster
     No effect.
   vapors
     No effect.
:::which could be replaced by a single sentence "The potion has no effect when it vapors or hits a monster."
:::--[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Check out [[potion of object detection]] now. What do you think? I've separated effects and messages, since people usually want to either (a) find out what a potion does, or (b) find out what a message meant. This is also why the message table is now arranged in reverse-lookup fashion. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:34, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, it sure is better, but actually I think a separate page with ''all'' messages from ''all'' potions ordered in that manner, reverse-lookup fashion, would be even better. People of part (b), who want to find out what a message meant, would not need to find out what the message meant if they had already identified the potion. Having not identified the potion, they will not find the potion page to see the messages there. Thus, having all messages alphabetically ordered and possible potions given next to them would be great. An example:
{| class="prettytable"
!Message
!Possible potions
|-
|"This burns like acid!"
|[[potion of holy water]] (if undead or chaotic)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of unholy water]] (if alive or lawful)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of acid]] (uncursed)
|-
|"This tastes like &lt;fruit&gt; juice."
|[[potion of fruit juice]] (non-cursed)&lt;br /&gt;[[potion of see invisible]] (non-cursed)
|} --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

:: I second this idea. Also it would be nice to have a single page about [[identifying potions]] (linked from [[potion]]s and also [[identifying items]] ). The [[potion of object detection]] page should include strategy on using the potion. ie: using the potion to find vaults, to detect monsters with inventory, using when confused to generate alternate effects (none for this potion), etc. Also mentioned should be likely places to find this potion (independant of identification) and associated probabilities, ie Mines End (10% chance), nymphs (50% chance), etc  -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
:::The page does indeed have a strategy section :) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
:: I like this idea too, as an extension of the pages dealing with object identification. There's no reason to include messages like "You sense the presence of objects" as it should be perfectly obvious what potion generates that. Messages like "You feel a lack of something" are distinctly ambiguous and would be very useful arranged in a table as you describe. However! If we are going to leave messages out of the identification-helper table, then they need to be included in the potion page, for the sake of [[User:Jayt/Completeness|completeness]]. So I think the easiest way to accomplish this would be to fill out the potion pages will ''all'' messages, like for [[potion of object detection]], then pick and choose the ones useful for identification. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

== Source files and annotation ==

I've created [[potion.c]] using a script on my user page, with the intention of it being a convenient reference to link to from other articles. Since the source should be authoritative, this page should be protected from further edits. I hope to eventually upload the rest, so I'd find admin power rather useful. I hope my edit history demonstrates trustworthiness :)

(Regarding [[potion.c]], I know it conflicts with the names used for the existing annotated files, but I'm going to move those to something like [[potion.c annotations]].) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

:This source code thingie should be discussed separately from your adminship request. I think [[Obj.h]] could be used as a model article. If I understood you correctly, you want two pages for each source file: the file itself, protected, and another, a copy of the file but with comments, such as [[Obj.h]] now? I personally think that only one article per each source file is enough. They shouldn't be protected so that everyone can comment them. '''''If''''' they are vandalized a lot, then we might consider some restrictions, but I think it's better to keep them open for now. There are many skilled source divers out there who don't have an account in this wiki.

:Oh by the way, see how I changed [[potion.c]]? It has still got the same features you implemented but I added a space in front of each row and removed all css-declarations, effectively saving some 60 kilobytes of space. :) Can you edit your script to generate output like that from now on? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
::Good change! I was ''sure'' I'd tried that combination of wikisyntax, but hey :) The simpler code makes it easier to add annotations inline, so I'm more inclined to agree with you that only one page per source file is necessary, and of course, therefore, that it should remain unprotected.

::The xxxx-343.txt spoilers should be protected though. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

== The Artifact... should [[artifact]] article names start with "The "? ==

We now have two articles: [[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]] and [[Tsurugi of Muramasa]]. And [[The Eye of the Aethiopica]] exists, leaving the links at [[Special:Whatlinkshere/Eye of the Aethiopica]] all broken.

It is true that [[NetHack]] includes "The " in its artifact names. We at [[Wikihack]] need to decide how to name the articles in [[:Category:Artifacts]] and how to handle the links. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:35, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

''Update:'' My current approach is to redirect "The XXX" to "XXX". This will cause a minor improvement in categories (not everything starts with T). Then in the "XXX" article, I bold '''The XXX''' at the start. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:48, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

: I feel somewhat responsible for the "The XXX" naming scheme -- I think this solution is fine. [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:54, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:It's mostly a non-issue thanks to redirects, but I would prefer the following:
:Artifact weapons have simple nouns for names, so they don't need to be called, e.g. "The Grayswandir", but all the quest artifacts are compound (hence countable) nouns, and require "the" in ordinary speech. We don't say "I think Eyes of the Overworld are better than Orb of Fate". So I think artifact weapons should not use The, and other arifacts should. This corresponds to their names in the source ([[artilist.h#line43]]) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

:: I suddenly recalled that we have sortkeys (so in [[The Magic Mirror of Merlin]] one could use &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:Quest artifacts|Magic Mirror of Merlin]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. I now agree with Jayt; we should follow [[artilist.h]]. I should note that some of the artifact quest weapons use "The" ([[The Tsurugi of Muramasa]]). --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:53, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:::Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:::I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

Here's my suggestions
{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|
{|
|{{brown|Y}}
|Bug Bear
|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!'''Attack Resistances'''
|None.
|}
Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

::: -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>g4ejzquziz38rf12rhv6uvbx58qsdki</sha1>
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      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="14292">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|
{|
|{{brown|Y}}
|Bug Bear
|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!'''Attack Resistances'''
|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>c5pfa2xh4x9g8eart4qx7jlzs30kmgn</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>6394</id>
      <parentid>6393</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-08-02T22:56:14Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>changed wikicode</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="14772">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|
&lt;div style="float:left"&gt;{{brown|Y}}&lt;/div&gt;
Bug Bear
&lt;div style="float:right"&gt;[[Image:bugbear.png]]&lt;/div&gt;
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!'''Attack Resistances'''
|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>fbdcqhje8yn1066vhgzgdgq4o0a1psi</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>6395</id>
      <parentid>6394</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-08-02T23:24:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? */ changed table html; idea on using only one template; name is not redundant</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="15538">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>b8mixuijakk6ot40qpcdlwn2pnbzqod</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>6409</id>
      <parentid>6395</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-08-03T00:48:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? */ {{tl|showhide}} looks good</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="15914">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>4wxgsrpc0wxq1ol9e9tl99f2st7wlpu</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>6445</id>
      <parentid>6409</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-08-04T19:02:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? */ CSS/Javascript help required.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="16351">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>8hka787v2d7540fsofxl2ywv53wqlmj</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>6558</id>
      <parentid>6445</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-08-05T02:23:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>PraetorFenix</username>
        <id>649</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Dylan O'Donnell spoilers */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="16784">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>q80rig6ivlhck5wgrd3ikarcp98sd7j</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>6559</id>
      <parentid>6558</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-08-05T02:26:04Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>PraetorFenix</username>
        <id>649</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="16978">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>emqvhcitt58qu8ugymrsb9w76gvz0wf</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>6560</id>
      <parentid>6559</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-08-05T02:26:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>PraetorFenix</username>
        <id>649</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="16979">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>kvjzexhzgybgymqba7zzf807vqcbk5g</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>6585</id>
      <parentid>6560</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-08-05T09:49:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Dylan O'Donnell spoilers */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="17427">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>r4zh782k99aqgghe3m8e3qhlmrw52o7</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>6636</id>
      <parentid>6585</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-08-05T17:38:59Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>New main page</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="18311">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>n0l012ishg3edseqcnxnxcu1covi9ub</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>6770</id>
      <parentid>6636</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-08-07T04:40:58Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New main page */ Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows?</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="18553">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>m93zo64tjipev2wi270f6ym8adcjlxl</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>6830</id>
      <parentid>6770</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-08-09T00:46:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New main page */ new main page is ready. I'll swap it in soon if there are no objections.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="18935">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>3xkvb3jxyqzfdiutmf81ct4w2d8hl5f</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>6840</id>
      <parentid>6830</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-08-09T22:56:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}}</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="19312">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>i4gqrw23pegtjqdhulwg3a3a228zhdt</sha1>
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      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="19960">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>iz2g93apj2n3i7z2bmymwq3v8t8qxxf</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>7422</id>
      <parentid>7284</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-08-17T04:10:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings */ Alternate suggestion: [[Template:Clear]].</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="20605">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>czeel6nwwrorq1bdoxdqqum932qm0zy</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>7447</id>
      <parentid>7422</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-08-17T15:37:23Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings */ ATTN: CSS experts. Please help.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="20979">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>3muo0vnxay3hofexujpyivejj9xuy3q</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>7755</id>
      <parentid>7447</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-08-20T10:55:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
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        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>New bots</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="21309">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ab09ewf70ws6plqz3q3mwdo338mwucu</sha1>
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      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="21761">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

From [[User:Kernigh/Main_Page]], I've created [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page]], which is one possible idea. The CSS is a bit sloppy - too much space is wasted on borders and margins - and I haven't spent any time on the colours. I think this design could work quite well; how does it look on a 1024x768 screen? And are the abbreviated role names a bit jargony? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:20, 20 August 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>520koyd07vykirf88lzu1gh3enj4he1</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>7779</id>
      <parentid>7778</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-08-20T14:12:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Featured articles on the main page */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="22152">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

From [[User:Kernigh/Main_Page]], I've created [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page]], which is one possible idea. The CSS is a bit sloppy - too much space is wasted on borders and margins - and I haven't spent any time on the colours. I think this design could work quite well; how does it look on a 1024x768 screen? And are the abbreviated role names a bit jargony? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:20, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, it is cut after the fourth line of the Mjollnir-text ("''...lightning damage.''"). The roles could be expanded and divided to two rows; there's plenty of space for that as the header "Roles" and its "[edit]" link are on two different rows... But I don't know if that really matters. I just happen to like the current main page. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 14:12, 20 August 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>dj71afokwumskspz5d46ld80hlwz7mj</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>7942</id>
      <parentid>7779</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-08-21T02:06:23Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Featured articles on the main page */ We have another thread at [[Talk:Main Page]], so I move this thread to there.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="21397">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''</text>
      <sha1>rnf15osqmu47glrocikf6plbrokwuoy</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>8163</id>
      <parentid>7942</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-08-24T01:21:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Polling extension</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="21607">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>rb0gguvpmwocufjnmwthiwb0jkdwx5y</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>8861</id>
      <parentid>8163</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-08-29T13:12:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Source code for old versions</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="21996">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>s030jyi8471hsld9egaghry805w4qnr</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>8862</id>
      <parentid>8861</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-08-29T13:30:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Source code for old versions */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="22625">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>nl6zikftvio8a8ufdwku7skajg7gt86</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>8869</id>
      <parentid>8862</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-08-29T15:56:24Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eidolos</username>
        <id>239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Source code for old versions */ Put a warning, maybe use a directory.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="22937">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:You should probably put some kind of (largish) warning on each page saying that the source code is not current. Yes, it's possible to see that the [[Hack.c-1.0]] page isn't from 3.4.3, but just in case. And maybe use a directory like [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]]? --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>c0i4frda5062uxhb22yvhmnqzdhenco</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>8878</id>
      <parentid>8869</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-08-29T17:15:58Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Source code for old versions */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="23181">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:You should probably put some kind of (largish) warning on each page saying that the source code is not current. Yes, it's possible to see that the [[Hack.c-1.0]] page isn't from 3.4.3, but just in case. And maybe use a directory like [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]]? --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::That's a good idea. I moved the article to [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]] now. I think it's a very clear form. Who knows when files with the *.c-1.0 extension are introduced to the actual code? ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 17:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>a891jhlp1tji6hbbyaipxed4wamdb95</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>8974</id>
      <parentid>8878</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-08-29T21:24:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Source code for old versions */ hack 1.0 complete</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="23490">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:You should probably put some kind of (largish) warning on each page saying that the source code is not current. Yes, it's possible to see that the [[Hack.c-1.0]] page isn't from 3.4.3, but just in case. And maybe use a directory like [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]]? --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::That's a good idea. I moved the article to [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]] now. I think it's a very clear form. Who knows when files with the *.c-1.0 extension are introduced to the actual code? ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 17:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, all done! See [[Hack 1.0 source code]]. I agree, we don't need every minor version; I will upload 3.0.0, 3.1.0, 3.2.0, 3.3.0 and 3.4.0, and all the early revisions (none are that big... not that space is an issue - Uncyclopedia takes up 18 gigabytes). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>pz04kvn4kc854wjgu3ktnwo9nn7rdrt</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9363</id>
      <parentid>8974</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-01T07:58:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Stefanor</username>
        <id>775</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Lookup source code by symbol</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="23957">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:You should probably put some kind of (largish) warning on each page saying that the source code is not current. Yes, it's possible to see that the [[Hack.c-1.0]] page isn't from 3.4.3, but just in case. And maybe use a directory like [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]]? --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::That's a good idea. I moved the article to [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]] now. I think it's a very clear form. Who knows when files with the *.c-1.0 extension are introduced to the actual code? ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 17:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, all done! See [[Hack 1.0 source code]]. I agree, we don't need every minor version; I will upload 3.0.0, 3.1.0, 3.2.0, 3.3.0 and 3.4.0, and all the early revisions (none are that big... not that space is an issue - Uncyclopedia takes up 18 gigabytes). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

== Lookup source code by symbol ==

How useful would it have some sort of wikified ctags(1) output for the source code pages?
E.g. [[Functions/rndcurse]] would be a redirect to [[sit.c#line311]], the point where rndcurse is defined.
Perhaps also have [[Functions]] be a master list, for easy searching?
Ctags is known to do a good job on the NetHack code, so this would be a simple bot-programming problem.
--[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 07:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ihkbuzoi2lc5sepytyuvxmbfa4jjqj6</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9367</id>
      <parentid>9363</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-01T11:03:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Lookup source code by symbol */  yes</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="24162">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:You should probably put some kind of (largish) warning on each page saying that the source code is not current. Yes, it's possible to see that the [[Hack.c-1.0]] page isn't from 3.4.3, but just in case. And maybe use a directory like [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]]? --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::That's a good idea. I moved the article to [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]] now. I think it's a very clear form. Who knows when files with the *.c-1.0 extension are introduced to the actual code? ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 17:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, all done! See [[Hack 1.0 source code]]. I agree, we don't need every minor version; I will upload 3.0.0, 3.1.0, 3.2.0, 3.3.0 and 3.4.0, and all the early revisions (none are that big... not that space is an issue - Uncyclopedia takes up 18 gigabytes). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

== Lookup source code by symbol ==

How useful would it have some sort of wikified ctags(1) output for the source code pages?
E.g. [[Functions/rndcurse]] would be a redirect to [[sit.c#line311]], the point where rndcurse is defined.
Perhaps also have [[Functions]] be a master list, for easy searching?
Ctags is known to do a good job on the NetHack code, so this would be a simple bot-programming problem.
--[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 07:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
:I think it's a good idea. [[User:GreyKnight]] had the same idea [[Talk:Source_code#Function/macro reference|here]]; you should probably confer with him. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>62ckkmjjg5dljr94z1zanec9re0mt7d</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9501</id>
      <parentid>9367</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-02T22:20:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Lookup source code by symbol */ From what I know, #REDIRECT to sections does not work in MediaWiki; it redirects to the top of the page instead. Beware of that. --~~~~</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="24350">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:You should probably put some kind of (largish) warning on each page saying that the source code is not current. Yes, it's possible to see that the [[Hack.c-1.0]] page isn't from 3.4.3, but just in case. And maybe use a directory like [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]]? --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::That's a good idea. I moved the article to [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]] now. I think it's a very clear form. Who knows when files with the *.c-1.0 extension are introduced to the actual code? ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 17:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, all done! See [[Hack 1.0 source code]]. I agree, we don't need every minor version; I will upload 3.0.0, 3.1.0, 3.2.0, 3.3.0 and 3.4.0, and all the early revisions (none are that big... not that space is an issue - Uncyclopedia takes up 18 gigabytes). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

== Lookup source code by symbol ==

How useful would it have some sort of wikified ctags(1) output for the source code pages?
E.g. [[Functions/rndcurse]] would be a redirect to [[sit.c#line311]], the point where rndcurse is defined.
Perhaps also have [[Functions]] be a master list, for easy searching?
Ctags is known to do a good job on the NetHack code, so this would be a simple bot-programming problem.
--[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 07:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
:I think it's a good idea. [[User:GreyKnight]] had the same idea [[Talk:Source_code#Function/macro reference|here]]; you should probably confer with him. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
::From what I know, #REDIRECT to sections does not work in MediaWiki; it redirects to the top of the page instead. Beware of that. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:20, 2 September 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>7l69okqi9lv6xyc3ulhudxbbvsvxdsn</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9505</id>
      <parentid>9501</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-02T22:50:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Style guide on sidebar; More admins and bureaucrats?</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="25439">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:You should probably put some kind of (largish) warning on each page saying that the source code is not current. Yes, it's possible to see that the [[Hack.c-1.0]] page isn't from 3.4.3, but just in case. And maybe use a directory like [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]]? --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::That's a good idea. I moved the article to [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]] now. I think it's a very clear form. Who knows when files with the *.c-1.0 extension are introduced to the actual code? ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 17:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, all done! See [[Hack 1.0 source code]]. I agree, we don't need every minor version; I will upload 3.0.0, 3.1.0, 3.2.0, 3.3.0 and 3.4.0, and all the early revisions (none are that big... not that space is an issue - Uncyclopedia takes up 18 gigabytes). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

== Lookup source code by symbol ==

How useful would it have some sort of wikified ctags(1) output for the source code pages?
E.g. [[Functions/rndcurse]] would be a redirect to [[sit.c#line311]], the point where rndcurse is defined.
Perhaps also have [[Functions]] be a master list, for easy searching?
Ctags is known to do a good job on the NetHack code, so this would be a simple bot-programming problem.
--[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 07:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
:I think it's a good idea. [[User:GreyKnight]] had the same idea [[Talk:Source_code#Function/macro reference|here]]; you should probably confer with him. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
::From what I know, #REDIRECT to sections does not work in MediaWiki; it redirects to the top of the page instead. Beware of that. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:20, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

== Style guide on sidebar; More admins and bureaucrats? ==

[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I edited [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] to put the [[Wikihack:Style guide]] in the navigation box on the left. (It might not show on some pages until you reload the page.)

Meanwhile, I was wondering if we should designate more wiki administrators. [[Special:Listusers/sysop]] shows who we have now, but  because founder [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] has not edited here since October 2005, that leaves Jayt, ZeroOne and myself. It is not as if the wiki needs more administrators; though admins have extra tools (mostly the same tools as on Wikipedia!) to fight spam and vandalism, there has not been much need for them. However, admins do get to tinker with the "MediaWiki:" pages, delete extra copies and images, and move pages over other pages.

I am the only "Bureaucrat", a user who can use [[Special:Makesysop]] to make other administrators (or bureaucrats). We might want to make at least one more, in case I am away when someone needs a "promotion". --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>nvzuo7e9of4r7sg2c29yu6tqf5tn7of</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9508</id>
      <parentid>9505</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-03T00:03:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Style guide on sidebar; More admins and bureaucrats? */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="25834">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:You should probably put some kind of (largish) warning on each page saying that the source code is not current. Yes, it's possible to see that the [[Hack.c-1.0]] page isn't from 3.4.3, but just in case. And maybe use a directory like [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]]? --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::That's a good idea. I moved the article to [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]] now. I think it's a very clear form. Who knows when files with the *.c-1.0 extension are introduced to the actual code? ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 17:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, all done! See [[Hack 1.0 source code]]. I agree, we don't need every minor version; I will upload 3.0.0, 3.1.0, 3.2.0, 3.3.0 and 3.4.0, and all the early revisions (none are that big... not that space is an issue - Uncyclopedia takes up 18 gigabytes). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

== Lookup source code by symbol ==

How useful would it have some sort of wikified ctags(1) output for the source code pages?
E.g. [[Functions/rndcurse]] would be a redirect to [[sit.c#line311]], the point where rndcurse is defined.
Perhaps also have [[Functions]] be a master list, for easy searching?
Ctags is known to do a good job on the NetHack code, so this would be a simple bot-programming problem.
--[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 07:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
:I think it's a good idea. [[User:GreyKnight]] had the same idea [[Talk:Source_code#Function/macro reference|here]]; you should probably confer with him. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
::From what I know, #REDIRECT to sections does not work in MediaWiki; it redirects to the top of the page instead. Beware of that. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:20, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

== Style guide on sidebar; More admins and bureaucrats? ==

[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I edited [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] to put the [[Wikihack:Style guide]] in the navigation box on the left. (It might not show on some pages until you reload the page.)

Meanwhile, I was wondering if we should designate more wiki administrators. [[Special:Listusers/sysop]] shows who we have now, but  because founder [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] has not edited here since October 2005, that leaves Jayt, ZeroOne and myself. It is not as if the wiki needs more administrators; though admins have extra tools (mostly the same tools as on Wikipedia!) to fight spam and vandalism, there has not been much need for them. However, admins do get to tinker with the "MediaWiki:" pages, delete extra copies and images, and move pages over other pages.

I am the only "Bureaucrat", a user who can use [[Special:Makesysop]] to make other administrators (or bureaucrats). We might want to make at least one more, in case I am away when someone needs a "promotion". --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

:Yes, this wiki has grown ''a lot'', so I don't think three admins is enough anymore. I nominate [[User:Lotte]] and [[User:Ray Chason]] as new admins. Lotte, although apparently currently on vacation, has been in here for almost as long as myself and Ray has proven himself worthy by doing amazing job with documenting the game history. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>emdnzdcdiy4jlw3rpvi0fgpo8s6rrgx</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9609</id>
      <parentid>9508</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-03T13:08:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Style guide on sidebar; More admins and bureaucrats? */ yes, more.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="26214">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:You should probably put some kind of (largish) warning on each page saying that the source code is not current. Yes, it's possible to see that the [[Hack.c-1.0]] page isn't from 3.4.3, but just in case. And maybe use a directory like [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]]? --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::That's a good idea. I moved the article to [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]] now. I think it's a very clear form. Who knows when files with the *.c-1.0 extension are introduced to the actual code? ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 17:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, all done! See [[Hack 1.0 source code]]. I agree, we don't need every minor version; I will upload 3.0.0, 3.1.0, 3.2.0, 3.3.0 and 3.4.0, and all the early revisions (none are that big... not that space is an issue - Uncyclopedia takes up 18 gigabytes). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

== Lookup source code by symbol ==

How useful would it have some sort of wikified ctags(1) output for the source code pages?
E.g. [[Functions/rndcurse]] would be a redirect to [[sit.c#line311]], the point where rndcurse is defined.
Perhaps also have [[Functions]] be a master list, for easy searching?
Ctags is known to do a good job on the NetHack code, so this would be a simple bot-programming problem.
--[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 07:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
:I think it's a good idea. [[User:GreyKnight]] had the same idea [[Talk:Source_code#Function/macro reference|here]]; you should probably confer with him. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
::From what I know, #REDIRECT to sections does not work in MediaWiki; it redirects to the top of the page instead. Beware of that. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:20, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

== Style guide on sidebar; More admins and bureaucrats? ==

[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I edited [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] to put the [[Wikihack:Style guide]] in the navigation box on the left. (It might not show on some pages until you reload the page.)

Meanwhile, I was wondering if we should designate more wiki administrators. [[Special:Listusers/sysop]] shows who we have now, but  because founder [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] has not edited here since October 2005, that leaves Jayt, ZeroOne and myself. It is not as if the wiki needs more administrators; though admins have extra tools (mostly the same tools as on Wikipedia!) to fight spam and vandalism, there has not been much need for them. However, admins do get to tinker with the "MediaWiki:" pages, delete extra copies and images, and move pages over other pages.

I am the only "Bureaucrat", a user who can use [[Special:Makesysop]] to make other administrators (or bureaucrats). We might want to make at least one more, in case I am away when someone needs a "promotion". --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

:Yes, this wiki has grown ''a lot'', so I don't think three admins is enough anymore. I nominate [[User:Lotte]] and [[User:Ray Chason]] as new admins. Lotte, although apparently currently on vacation, has been in here for almost as long as myself and Ray has proven himself worthy by doing amazing job with documenting the game history. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::I second these nominations. We are currently blessed with little or no vandalism, and a userbase comprised almost entirely of thoughtful contributors, so without intending to lessen the contributions of other editors, I also nominate [[User:Eidolos]]. Additionally, I would be happy for ZeroOne to become a second bureaucrat. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>pg6dfyh049dpa7s83sqtube4oy20bpu</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9773</id>
      <parentid>9609</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-03T23:08:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
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        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>New javascript-based monster template</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="27148">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:You should probably put some kind of (largish) warning on each page saying that the source code is not current. Yes, it's possible to see that the [[Hack.c-1.0]] page isn't from 3.4.3, but just in case. And maybe use a directory like [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]]? --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::That's a good idea. I moved the article to [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]] now. I think it's a very clear form. Who knows when files with the *.c-1.0 extension are introduced to the actual code? ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 17:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, all done! See [[Hack 1.0 source code]]. I agree, we don't need every minor version; I will upload 3.0.0, 3.1.0, 3.2.0, 3.3.0 and 3.4.0, and all the early revisions (none are that big... not that space is an issue - Uncyclopedia takes up 18 gigabytes). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

== Lookup source code by symbol ==

How useful would it have some sort of wikified ctags(1) output for the source code pages?
E.g. [[Functions/rndcurse]] would be a redirect to [[sit.c#line311]], the point where rndcurse is defined.
Perhaps also have [[Functions]] be a master list, for easy searching?
Ctags is known to do a good job on the NetHack code, so this would be a simple bot-programming problem.
--[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 07:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
:I think it's a good idea. [[User:GreyKnight]] had the same idea [[Talk:Source_code#Function/macro reference|here]]; you should probably confer with him. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
::From what I know, #REDIRECT to sections does not work in MediaWiki; it redirects to the top of the page instead. Beware of that. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:20, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

== Style guide on sidebar; More admins and bureaucrats? ==

[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I edited [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] to put the [[Wikihack:Style guide]] in the navigation box on the left. (It might not show on some pages until you reload the page.)

Meanwhile, I was wondering if we should designate more wiki administrators. [[Special:Listusers/sysop]] shows who we have now, but  because founder [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] has not edited here since October 2005, that leaves Jayt, ZeroOne and myself. It is not as if the wiki needs more administrators; though admins have extra tools (mostly the same tools as on Wikipedia!) to fight spam and vandalism, there has not been much need for them. However, admins do get to tinker with the "MediaWiki:" pages, delete extra copies and images, and move pages over other pages.

I am the only "Bureaucrat", a user who can use [[Special:Makesysop]] to make other administrators (or bureaucrats). We might want to make at least one more, in case I am away when someone needs a "promotion". --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

:Yes, this wiki has grown ''a lot'', so I don't think three admins is enough anymore. I nominate [[User:Lotte]] and [[User:Ray Chason]] as new admins. Lotte, although apparently currently on vacation, has been in here for almost as long as myself and Ray has proven himself worthy by doing amazing job with documenting the game history. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::I second these nominations. We are currently blessed with little or no vandalism, and a userbase comprised almost entirely of thoughtful contributors, so without intending to lessen the contributions of other editors, I also nominate [[User:Eidolos]]. Additionally, I would be happy for ZeroOne to become a second bureaucrat. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.onload=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>dfbel7tr8lxd3b5odir8od4kp4bo4g5</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9783</id>
      <parentid>9773</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-04T00:48:24Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New javascript-based monster template */ addOnloadHook</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="27869">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:You should probably put some kind of (largish) warning on each page saying that the source code is not current. Yes, it's possible to see that the [[Hack.c-1.0]] page isn't from 3.4.3, but just in case. And maybe use a directory like [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]]? --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::That's a good idea. I moved the article to [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]] now. I think it's a very clear form. Who knows when files with the *.c-1.0 extension are introduced to the actual code? ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 17:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, all done! See [[Hack 1.0 source code]]. I agree, we don't need every minor version; I will upload 3.0.0, 3.1.0, 3.2.0, 3.3.0 and 3.4.0, and all the early revisions (none are that big... not that space is an issue - Uncyclopedia takes up 18 gigabytes). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

== Lookup source code by symbol ==

How useful would it have some sort of wikified ctags(1) output for the source code pages?
E.g. [[Functions/rndcurse]] would be a redirect to [[sit.c#line311]], the point where rndcurse is defined.
Perhaps also have [[Functions]] be a master list, for easy searching?
Ctags is known to do a good job on the NetHack code, so this would be a simple bot-programming problem.
--[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 07:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
:I think it's a good idea. [[User:GreyKnight]] had the same idea [[Talk:Source_code#Function/macro reference|here]]; you should probably confer with him. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
::From what I know, #REDIRECT to sections does not work in MediaWiki; it redirects to the top of the page instead. Beware of that. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:20, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

== Style guide on sidebar; More admins and bureaucrats? ==

[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I edited [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] to put the [[Wikihack:Style guide]] in the navigation box on the left. (It might not show on some pages until you reload the page.)

Meanwhile, I was wondering if we should designate more wiki administrators. [[Special:Listusers/sysop]] shows who we have now, but  because founder [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] has not edited here since October 2005, that leaves Jayt, ZeroOne and myself. It is not as if the wiki needs more administrators; though admins have extra tools (mostly the same tools as on Wikipedia!) to fight spam and vandalism, there has not been much need for them. However, admins do get to tinker with the "MediaWiki:" pages, delete extra copies and images, and move pages over other pages.

I am the only "Bureaucrat", a user who can use [[Special:Makesysop]] to make other administrators (or bureaucrats). We might want to make at least one more, in case I am away when someone needs a "promotion". --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

:Yes, this wiki has grown ''a lot'', so I don't think three admins is enough anymore. I nominate [[User:Lotte]] and [[User:Ray Chason]] as new admins. Lotte, although apparently currently on vacation, has been in here for almost as long as myself and Ray has proven himself worthy by doing amazing job with documenting the game history. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::I second these nominations. We are currently blessed with little or no vandalism, and a userbase comprised almost entirely of thoughtful contributors, so without intending to lessen the contributions of other editors, I also nominate [[User:Eidolos]]. Additionally, I would be happy for ZeroOne to become a second bureaucrat. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.onload=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>dyadr650i73zlnsgupao5gva0chn8df</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9821</id>
      <parentid>9783</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-04T11:42:37Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New javascript-based monster template */ still broken for some</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="28277">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:You should probably put some kind of (largish) warning on each page saying that the source code is not current. Yes, it's possible to see that the [[Hack.c-1.0]] page isn't from 3.4.3, but just in case. And maybe use a directory like [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]]? --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::That's a good idea. I moved the article to [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]] now. I think it's a very clear form. Who knows when files with the *.c-1.0 extension are introduced to the actual code? ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 17:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, all done! See [[Hack 1.0 source code]]. I agree, we don't need every minor version; I will upload 3.0.0, 3.1.0, 3.2.0, 3.3.0 and 3.4.0, and all the early revisions (none are that big... not that space is an issue - Uncyclopedia takes up 18 gigabytes). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

== Lookup source code by symbol ==

How useful would it have some sort of wikified ctags(1) output for the source code pages?
E.g. [[Functions/rndcurse]] would be a redirect to [[sit.c#line311]], the point where rndcurse is defined.
Perhaps also have [[Functions]] be a master list, for easy searching?
Ctags is known to do a good job on the NetHack code, so this would be a simple bot-programming problem.
--[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 07:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
:I think it's a good idea. [[User:GreyKnight]] had the same idea [[Talk:Source_code#Function/macro reference|here]]; you should probably confer with him. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
::From what I know, #REDIRECT to sections does not work in MediaWiki; it redirects to the top of the page instead. Beware of that. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:20, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

== Style guide on sidebar; More admins and bureaucrats? ==

[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I edited [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] to put the [[Wikihack:Style guide]] in the navigation box on the left. (It might not show on some pages until you reload the page.)

Meanwhile, I was wondering if we should designate more wiki administrators. [[Special:Listusers/sysop]] shows who we have now, but  because founder [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] has not edited here since October 2005, that leaves Jayt, ZeroOne and myself. It is not as if the wiki needs more administrators; though admins have extra tools (mostly the same tools as on Wikipedia!) to fight spam and vandalism, there has not been much need for them. However, admins do get to tinker with the "MediaWiki:" pages, delete extra copies and images, and move pages over other pages.

I am the only "Bureaucrat", a user who can use [[Special:Makesysop]] to make other administrators (or bureaucrats). We might want to make at least one more, in case I am away when someone needs a "promotion". --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

:Yes, this wiki has grown ''a lot'', so I don't think three admins is enough anymore. I nominate [[User:Lotte]] and [[User:Ray Chason]] as new admins. Lotte, although apparently currently on vacation, has been in here for almost as long as myself and Ray has proven himself worthy by doing amazing job with documenting the game history. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::I second these nominations. We are currently blessed with little or no vandalism, and a userbase comprised almost entirely of thoughtful contributors, so without intending to lessen the contributions of other editors, I also nominate [[User:Eidolos]]. Additionally, I would be happy for ZeroOne to become a second bureaucrat. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.onload=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>52p30nyuin00gj6g709n5qegx6sc5j1</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9832</id>
      <parentid>9821</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-04T17:42:01Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eidolos</username>
        <id>239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New javascript-based monster template */ It now works for me!</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="28642">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:You should probably put some kind of (largish) warning on each page saying that the source code is not current. Yes, it's possible to see that the [[Hack.c-1.0]] page isn't from 3.4.3, but just in case. And maybe use a directory like [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]]? --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::That's a good idea. I moved the article to [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]] now. I think it's a very clear form. Who knows when files with the *.c-1.0 extension are introduced to the actual code? ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 17:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, all done! See [[Hack 1.0 source code]]. I agree, we don't need every minor version; I will upload 3.0.0, 3.1.0, 3.2.0, 3.3.0 and 3.4.0, and all the early revisions (none are that big... not that space is an issue - Uncyclopedia takes up 18 gigabytes). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

== Lookup source code by symbol ==

How useful would it have some sort of wikified ctags(1) output for the source code pages?
E.g. [[Functions/rndcurse]] would be a redirect to [[sit.c#line311]], the point where rndcurse is defined.
Perhaps also have [[Functions]] be a master list, for easy searching?
Ctags is known to do a good job on the NetHack code, so this would be a simple bot-programming problem.
--[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 07:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
:I think it's a good idea. [[User:GreyKnight]] had the same idea [[Talk:Source_code#Function/macro reference|here]]; you should probably confer with him. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
::From what I know, #REDIRECT to sections does not work in MediaWiki; it redirects to the top of the page instead. Beware of that. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:20, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

== Style guide on sidebar; More admins and bureaucrats? ==

[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I edited [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] to put the [[Wikihack:Style guide]] in the navigation box on the left. (It might not show on some pages until you reload the page.)

Meanwhile, I was wondering if we should designate more wiki administrators. [[Special:Listusers/sysop]] shows who we have now, but  because founder [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] has not edited here since October 2005, that leaves Jayt, ZeroOne and myself. It is not as if the wiki needs more administrators; though admins have extra tools (mostly the same tools as on Wikipedia!) to fight spam and vandalism, there has not been much need for them. However, admins do get to tinker with the "MediaWiki:" pages, delete extra copies and images, and move pages over other pages.

I am the only "Bureaucrat", a user who can use [[Special:Makesysop]] to make other administrators (or bureaucrats). We might want to make at least one more, in case I am away when someone needs a "promotion". --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

:Yes, this wiki has grown ''a lot'', so I don't think three admins is enough anymore. I nominate [[User:Lotte]] and [[User:Ray Chason]] as new admins. Lotte, although apparently currently on vacation, has been in here for almost as long as myself and Ray has proven himself worthy by doing amazing job with documenting the game history. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::I second these nominations. We are currently blessed with little or no vandalism, and a userbase comprised almost entirely of thoughtful contributors, so without intending to lessen the contributions of other editors, I also nominate [[User:Eidolos]]. Additionally, I would be happy for ZeroOne to become a second bureaucrat. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.onload=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>4v5smjf4roxtg8kbkka2pv9dwl400l2</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9836</id>
      <parentid>9832</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-04T19:32:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New javascript-based monster template */ Did server-side cache break it?</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="29095">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:You should probably put some kind of (largish) warning on each page saying that the source code is not current. Yes, it's possible to see that the [[Hack.c-1.0]] page isn't from 3.4.3, but just in case. And maybe use a directory like [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]]? --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::That's a good idea. I moved the article to [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]] now. I think it's a very clear form. Who knows when files with the *.c-1.0 extension are introduced to the actual code? ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 17:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, all done! See [[Hack 1.0 source code]]. I agree, we don't need every minor version; I will upload 3.0.0, 3.1.0, 3.2.0, 3.3.0 and 3.4.0, and all the early revisions (none are that big... not that space is an issue - Uncyclopedia takes up 18 gigabytes). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

== Lookup source code by symbol ==

How useful would it have some sort of wikified ctags(1) output for the source code pages?
E.g. [[Functions/rndcurse]] would be a redirect to [[sit.c#line311]], the point where rndcurse is defined.
Perhaps also have [[Functions]] be a master list, for easy searching?
Ctags is known to do a good job on the NetHack code, so this would be a simple bot-programming problem.
--[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 07:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
:I think it's a good idea. [[User:GreyKnight]] had the same idea [[Talk:Source_code#Function/macro reference|here]]; you should probably confer with him. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
::From what I know, #REDIRECT to sections does not work in MediaWiki; it redirects to the top of the page instead. Beware of that. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:20, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

== Style guide on sidebar; More admins and bureaucrats? ==

[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I edited [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] to put the [[Wikihack:Style guide]] in the navigation box on the left. (It might not show on some pages until you reload the page.)

Meanwhile, I was wondering if we should designate more wiki administrators. [[Special:Listusers/sysop]] shows who we have now, but  because founder [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] has not edited here since October 2005, that leaves Jayt, ZeroOne and myself. It is not as if the wiki needs more administrators; though admins have extra tools (mostly the same tools as on Wikipedia!) to fight spam and vandalism, there has not been much need for them. However, admins do get to tinker with the "MediaWiki:" pages, delete extra copies and images, and move pages over other pages.

I am the only "Bureaucrat", a user who can use [[Special:Makesysop]] to make other administrators (or bureaucrats). We might want to make at least one more, in case I am away when someone needs a "promotion". --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

:Yes, this wiki has grown ''a lot'', so I don't think three admins is enough anymore. I nominate [[User:Lotte]] and [[User:Ray Chason]] as new admins. Lotte, although apparently currently on vacation, has been in here for almost as long as myself and Ray has proven himself worthy by doing amazing job with documenting the game history. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::I second these nominations. We are currently blessed with little or no vandalism, and a userbase comprised almost entirely of thoughtful contributors, so without intending to lessen the contributions of other editors, I also nominate [[User:Eidolos]]. Additionally, I would be happy for ZeroOne to become a second bureaucrat. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.onload=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>pvm13a6epj1ll2rurl09xte8yfkaim4</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9912</id>
      <parentid>9836</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-06T01:04:37Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New javascript-based monster template */ replace old template?</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="29928">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:You should probably put some kind of (largish) warning on each page saying that the source code is not current. Yes, it's possible to see that the [[Hack.c-1.0]] page isn't from 3.4.3, but just in case. And maybe use a directory like [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]]? --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::That's a good idea. I moved the article to [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]] now. I think it's a very clear form. Who knows when files with the *.c-1.0 extension are introduced to the actual code? ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 17:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, all done! See [[Hack 1.0 source code]]. I agree, we don't need every minor version; I will upload 3.0.0, 3.1.0, 3.2.0, 3.3.0 and 3.4.0, and all the early revisions (none are that big... not that space is an issue - Uncyclopedia takes up 18 gigabytes). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

== Lookup source code by symbol ==

How useful would it have some sort of wikified ctags(1) output for the source code pages?
E.g. [[Functions/rndcurse]] would be a redirect to [[sit.c#line311]], the point where rndcurse is defined.
Perhaps also have [[Functions]] be a master list, for easy searching?
Ctags is known to do a good job on the NetHack code, so this would be a simple bot-programming problem.
--[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 07:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
:I think it's a good idea. [[User:GreyKnight]] had the same idea [[Talk:Source_code#Function/macro reference|here]]; you should probably confer with him. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
::From what I know, #REDIRECT to sections does not work in MediaWiki; it redirects to the top of the page instead. Beware of that. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:20, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

== Style guide on sidebar; More admins and bureaucrats? ==

[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I edited [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] to put the [[Wikihack:Style guide]] in the navigation box on the left. (It might not show on some pages until you reload the page.)

Meanwhile, I was wondering if we should designate more wiki administrators. [[Special:Listusers/sysop]] shows who we have now, but  because founder [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] has not edited here since October 2005, that leaves Jayt, ZeroOne and myself. It is not as if the wiki needs more administrators; though admins have extra tools (mostly the same tools as on Wikipedia!) to fight spam and vandalism, there has not been much need for them. However, admins do get to tinker with the "MediaWiki:" pages, delete extra copies and images, and move pages over other pages.

I am the only "Bureaucrat", a user who can use [[Special:Makesysop]] to make other administrators (or bureaucrats). We might want to make at least one more, in case I am away when someone needs a "promotion". --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

:Yes, this wiki has grown ''a lot'', so I don't think three admins is enough anymore. I nominate [[User:Lotte]] and [[User:Ray Chason]] as new admins. Lotte, although apparently currently on vacation, has been in here for almost as long as myself and Ray has proven himself worthy by doing amazing job with documenting the game history. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::I second these nominations. We are currently blessed with little or no vandalism, and a userbase comprised almost entirely of thoughtful contributors, so without intending to lessen the contributions of other editors, I also nominate [[User:Eidolos]]. Additionally, I would be happy for ZeroOne to become a second bureaucrat. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.onload=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>o1hj0rssuc61p5gor6go2vlj4sjguix</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9915</id>
      <parentid>9912</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-06T01:22:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New javascript-based monster template */ actually, multiple copies won't work</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="30182">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:You should probably put some kind of (largish) warning on each page saying that the source code is not current. Yes, it's possible to see that the [[Hack.c-1.0]] page isn't from 3.4.3, but just in case. And maybe use a directory like [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]]? --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::That's a good idea. I moved the article to [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]] now. I think it's a very clear form. Who knows when files with the *.c-1.0 extension are introduced to the actual code? ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 17:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, all done! See [[Hack 1.0 source code]]. I agree, we don't need every minor version; I will upload 3.0.0, 3.1.0, 3.2.0, 3.3.0 and 3.4.0, and all the early revisions (none are that big... not that space is an issue - Uncyclopedia takes up 18 gigabytes). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

== Lookup source code by symbol ==

How useful would it have some sort of wikified ctags(1) output for the source code pages?
E.g. [[Functions/rndcurse]] would be a redirect to [[sit.c#line311]], the point where rndcurse is defined.
Perhaps also have [[Functions]] be a master list, for easy searching?
Ctags is known to do a good job on the NetHack code, so this would be a simple bot-programming problem.
--[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 07:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
:I think it's a good idea. [[User:GreyKnight]] had the same idea [[Talk:Source_code#Function/macro reference|here]]; you should probably confer with him. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
::From what I know, #REDIRECT to sections does not work in MediaWiki; it redirects to the top of the page instead. Beware of that. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:20, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

== Style guide on sidebar; More admins and bureaucrats? ==

[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I edited [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] to put the [[Wikihack:Style guide]] in the navigation box on the left. (It might not show on some pages until you reload the page.)

Meanwhile, I was wondering if we should designate more wiki administrators. [[Special:Listusers/sysop]] shows who we have now, but  because founder [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] has not edited here since October 2005, that leaves Jayt, ZeroOne and myself. It is not as if the wiki needs more administrators; though admins have extra tools (mostly the same tools as on Wikipedia!) to fight spam and vandalism, there has not been much need for them. However, admins do get to tinker with the "MediaWiki:" pages, delete extra copies and images, and move pages over other pages.

I am the only "Bureaucrat", a user who can use [[Special:Makesysop]] to make other administrators (or bureaucrats). We might want to make at least one more, in case I am away when someone needs a "promotion". --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

:Yes, this wiki has grown ''a lot'', so I don't think three admins is enough anymore. I nominate [[User:Lotte]] and [[User:Ray Chason]] as new admins. Lotte, although apparently currently on vacation, has been in here for almost as long as myself and Ray has proven himself worthy by doing amazing job with documenting the game history. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::I second these nominations. We are currently blessed with little or no vandalism, and a userbase comprised almost entirely of thoughtful contributors, so without intending to lessen the contributions of other editors, I also nominate [[User:Eidolos]]. Additionally, I would be happy for ZeroOne to become a second bureaucrat. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.onload=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>h1i20p8hkzqzsmrg5n15j67i1rj6gxi</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9943</id>
      <parentid>9915</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-06T12:35:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New javascript-based monster template */ working, but cached.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="30389">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:You should probably put some kind of (largish) warning on each page saying that the source code is not current. Yes, it's possible to see that the [[Hack.c-1.0]] page isn't from 3.4.3, but just in case. And maybe use a directory like [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]]? --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::That's a good idea. I moved the article to [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]] now. I think it's a very clear form. Who knows when files with the *.c-1.0 extension are introduced to the actual code? ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 17:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, all done! See [[Hack 1.0 source code]]. I agree, we don't need every minor version; I will upload 3.0.0, 3.1.0, 3.2.0, 3.3.0 and 3.4.0, and all the early revisions (none are that big... not that space is an issue - Uncyclopedia takes up 18 gigabytes). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

== Lookup source code by symbol ==

How useful would it have some sort of wikified ctags(1) output for the source code pages?
E.g. [[Functions/rndcurse]] would be a redirect to [[sit.c#line311]], the point where rndcurse is defined.
Perhaps also have [[Functions]] be a master list, for easy searching?
Ctags is known to do a good job on the NetHack code, so this would be a simple bot-programming problem.
--[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 07:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
:I think it's a good idea. [[User:GreyKnight]] had the same idea [[Talk:Source_code#Function/macro reference|here]]; you should probably confer with him. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
::From what I know, #REDIRECT to sections does not work in MediaWiki; it redirects to the top of the page instead. Beware of that. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:20, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

== Style guide on sidebar; More admins and bureaucrats? ==

[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I edited [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] to put the [[Wikihack:Style guide]] in the navigation box on the left. (It might not show on some pages until you reload the page.)

Meanwhile, I was wondering if we should designate more wiki administrators. [[Special:Listusers/sysop]] shows who we have now, but  because founder [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] has not edited here since October 2005, that leaves Jayt, ZeroOne and myself. It is not as if the wiki needs more administrators; though admins have extra tools (mostly the same tools as on Wikipedia!) to fight spam and vandalism, there has not been much need for them. However, admins do get to tinker with the "MediaWiki:" pages, delete extra copies and images, and move pages over other pages.

I am the only "Bureaucrat", a user who can use [[Special:Makesysop]] to make other administrators (or bureaucrats). We might want to make at least one more, in case I am away when someone needs a "promotion". --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

:Yes, this wiki has grown ''a lot'', so I don't think three admins is enough anymore. I nominate [[User:Lotte]] and [[User:Ray Chason]] as new admins. Lotte, although apparently currently on vacation, has been in here for almost as long as myself and Ray has proven himself worthy by doing amazing job with documenting the game history. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::I second these nominations. We are currently blessed with little or no vandalism, and a userbase comprised almost entirely of thoughtful contributors, so without intending to lessen the contributions of other editors, I also nominate [[User:Eidolos]]. Additionally, I would be happy for ZeroOne to become a second bureaucrat. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.onload=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>160h5gl5h20sflr4on5ty3o7t3iuphq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9946</id>
      <parentid>9943</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-06T15:17:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New javascript-based monster template */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="30523">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:You should probably put some kind of (largish) warning on each page saying that the source code is not current. Yes, it's possible to see that the [[Hack.c-1.0]] page isn't from 3.4.3, but just in case. And maybe use a directory like [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]]? --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::That's a good idea. I moved the article to [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]] now. I think it's a very clear form. Who knows when files with the *.c-1.0 extension are introduced to the actual code? ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 17:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, all done! See [[Hack 1.0 source code]]. I agree, we don't need every minor version; I will upload 3.0.0, 3.1.0, 3.2.0, 3.3.0 and 3.4.0, and all the early revisions (none are that big... not that space is an issue - Uncyclopedia takes up 18 gigabytes). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

== Lookup source code by symbol ==

How useful would it have some sort of wikified ctags(1) output for the source code pages?
E.g. [[Functions/rndcurse]] would be a redirect to [[sit.c#line311]], the point where rndcurse is defined.
Perhaps also have [[Functions]] be a master list, for easy searching?
Ctags is known to do a good job on the NetHack code, so this would be a simple bot-programming problem.
--[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 07:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
:I think it's a good idea. [[User:GreyKnight]] had the same idea [[Talk:Source_code#Function/macro reference|here]]; you should probably confer with him. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
::From what I know, #REDIRECT to sections does not work in MediaWiki; it redirects to the top of the page instead. Beware of that. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:20, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

== Style guide on sidebar; More admins and bureaucrats? ==

[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I edited [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] to put the [[Wikihack:Style guide]] in the navigation box on the left. (It might not show on some pages until you reload the page.)

Meanwhile, I was wondering if we should designate more wiki administrators. [[Special:Listusers/sysop]] shows who we have now, but  because founder [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] has not edited here since October 2005, that leaves Jayt, ZeroOne and myself. It is not as if the wiki needs more administrators; though admins have extra tools (mostly the same tools as on Wikipedia!) to fight spam and vandalism, there has not been much need for them. However, admins do get to tinker with the "MediaWiki:" pages, delete extra copies and images, and move pages over other pages.

I am the only "Bureaucrat", a user who can use [[Special:Makesysop]] to make other administrators (or bureaucrats). We might want to make at least one more, in case I am away when someone needs a "promotion". --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

:Yes, this wiki has grown ''a lot'', so I don't think three admins is enough anymore. I nominate [[User:Lotte]] and [[User:Ray Chason]] as new admins. Lotte, although apparently currently on vacation, has been in here for almost as long as myself and Ray has proven himself worthy by doing amazing job with documenting the game history. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::I second these nominations. We are currently blessed with little or no vandalism, and a userbase comprised almost entirely of thoughtful contributors, so without intending to lessen the contributions of other editors, I also nominate [[User:Eidolos]]. Additionally, I would be happy for ZeroOne to become a second bureaucrat. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::::::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>7vjtk9d2i1vpacwgxeg53wgub3m1sg2</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9947</id>
      <parentid>9946</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-06T17:20:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New javascript-based monster template */ Our JavaScript createShowHideButtons is broken.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="30935">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:You should probably put some kind of (largish) warning on each page saying that the source code is not current. Yes, it's possible to see that the [[Hack.c-1.0]] page isn't from 3.4.3, but just in case. And maybe use a directory like [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]]? --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::That's a good idea. I moved the article to [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]] now. I think it's a very clear form. Who knows when files with the *.c-1.0 extension are introduced to the actual code? ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 17:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, all done! See [[Hack 1.0 source code]]. I agree, we don't need every minor version; I will upload 3.0.0, 3.1.0, 3.2.0, 3.3.0 and 3.4.0, and all the early revisions (none are that big... not that space is an issue - Uncyclopedia takes up 18 gigabytes). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

== Lookup source code by symbol ==

How useful would it have some sort of wikified ctags(1) output for the source code pages?
E.g. [[Functions/rndcurse]] would be a redirect to [[sit.c#line311]], the point where rndcurse is defined.
Perhaps also have [[Functions]] be a master list, for easy searching?
Ctags is known to do a good job on the NetHack code, so this would be a simple bot-programming problem.
--[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 07:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
:I think it's a good idea. [[User:GreyKnight]] had the same idea [[Talk:Source_code#Function/macro reference|here]]; you should probably confer with him. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
::From what I know, #REDIRECT to sections does not work in MediaWiki; it redirects to the top of the page instead. Beware of that. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:20, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

== Style guide on sidebar; More admins and bureaucrats? ==

[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I edited [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] to put the [[Wikihack:Style guide]] in the navigation box on the left. (It might not show on some pages until you reload the page.)

Meanwhile, I was wondering if we should designate more wiki administrators. [[Special:Listusers/sysop]] shows who we have now, but  because founder [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] has not edited here since October 2005, that leaves Jayt, ZeroOne and myself. It is not as if the wiki needs more administrators; though admins have extra tools (mostly the same tools as on Wikipedia!) to fight spam and vandalism, there has not been much need for them. However, admins do get to tinker with the "MediaWiki:" pages, delete extra copies and images, and move pages over other pages.

I am the only "Bureaucrat", a user who can use [[Special:Makesysop]] to make other administrators (or bureaucrats). We might want to make at least one more, in case I am away when someone needs a "promotion". --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

:Yes, this wiki has grown ''a lot'', so I don't think three admins is enough anymore. I nominate [[User:Lotte]] and [[User:Ray Chason]] as new admins. Lotte, although apparently currently on vacation, has been in here for almost as long as myself and Ray has proven himself worthy by doing amazing job with documenting the game history. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::I second these nominations. We are currently blessed with little or no vandalism, and a userbase comprised almost entirely of thoughtful contributors, so without intending to lessen the contributions of other editors, I also nominate [[User:Eidolos]]. Additionally, I would be happy for ZeroOne to become a second bureaucrat. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: ''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>8jgmg8im4aduf3gt3q46v149i0ud20q</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9948</id>
      <parentid>9947</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-06T17:32:23Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>But wait... it is a cache problem?</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="31364">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:You should probably put some kind of (largish) warning on each page saying that the source code is not current. Yes, it's possible to see that the [[Hack.c-1.0]] page isn't from 3.4.3, but just in case. And maybe use a directory like [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]]? --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::That's a good idea. I moved the article to [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]] now. I think it's a very clear form. Who knows when files with the *.c-1.0 extension are introduced to the actual code? ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 17:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, all done! See [[Hack 1.0 source code]]. I agree, we don't need every minor version; I will upload 3.0.0, 3.1.0, 3.2.0, 3.3.0 and 3.4.0, and all the early revisions (none are that big... not that space is an issue - Uncyclopedia takes up 18 gigabytes). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

== Lookup source code by symbol ==

How useful would it have some sort of wikified ctags(1) output for the source code pages?
E.g. [[Functions/rndcurse]] would be a redirect to [[sit.c#line311]], the point where rndcurse is defined.
Perhaps also have [[Functions]] be a master list, for easy searching?
Ctags is known to do a good job on the NetHack code, so this would be a simple bot-programming problem.
--[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 07:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
:I think it's a good idea. [[User:GreyKnight]] had the same idea [[Talk:Source_code#Function/macro reference|here]]; you should probably confer with him. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
::From what I know, #REDIRECT to sections does not work in MediaWiki; it redirects to the top of the page instead. Beware of that. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:20, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

== Style guide on sidebar; More admins and bureaucrats? ==

[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I edited [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] to put the [[Wikihack:Style guide]] in the navigation box on the left. (It might not show on some pages until you reload the page.)

Meanwhile, I was wondering if we should designate more wiki administrators. [[Special:Listusers/sysop]] shows who we have now, but  because founder [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] has not edited here since October 2005, that leaves Jayt, ZeroOne and myself. It is not as if the wiki needs more administrators; though admins have extra tools (mostly the same tools as on Wikipedia!) to fight spam and vandalism, there has not been much need for them. However, admins do get to tinker with the "MediaWiki:" pages, delete extra copies and images, and move pages over other pages.

I am the only "Bureaucrat", a user who can use [[Special:Makesysop]] to make other administrators (or bureaucrats). We might want to make at least one more, in case I am away when someone needs a "promotion". --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

:Yes, this wiki has grown ''a lot'', so I don't think three admins is enough anymore. I nominate [[User:Lotte]] and [[User:Ray Chason]] as new admins. Lotte, although apparently currently on vacation, has been in here for almost as long as myself and Ray has proven himself worthy by doing amazing job with documenting the game history. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::I second these nominations. We are currently blessed with little or no vandalism, and a userbase comprised almost entirely of thoughtful contributors, so without intending to lessen the contributions of other editors, I also nominate [[User:Eidolos]]. Additionally, I would be happy for ZeroOne to become a second bureaucrat. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This is MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>hv1h9tnfl24b6erp38efs2so22n7hhd</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9950</id>
      <parentid>9948</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-06T19:11:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eidolos</username>
        <id>239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New javascript-based monster template */ No flicker, resistances conveyed should be in summary</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="31753">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:You should probably put some kind of (largish) warning on each page saying that the source code is not current. Yes, it's possible to see that the [[Hack.c-1.0]] page isn't from 3.4.3, but just in case. And maybe use a directory like [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]]? --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::That's a good idea. I moved the article to [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]] now. I think it's a very clear form. Who knows when files with the *.c-1.0 extension are introduced to the actual code? ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 17:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, all done! See [[Hack 1.0 source code]]. I agree, we don't need every minor version; I will upload 3.0.0, 3.1.0, 3.2.0, 3.3.0 and 3.4.0, and all the early revisions (none are that big... not that space is an issue - Uncyclopedia takes up 18 gigabytes). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

== Lookup source code by symbol ==

How useful would it have some sort of wikified ctags(1) output for the source code pages?
E.g. [[Functions/rndcurse]] would be a redirect to [[sit.c#line311]], the point where rndcurse is defined.
Perhaps also have [[Functions]] be a master list, for easy searching?
Ctags is known to do a good job on the NetHack code, so this would be a simple bot-programming problem.
--[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 07:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
:I think it's a good idea. [[User:GreyKnight]] had the same idea [[Talk:Source_code#Function/macro reference|here]]; you should probably confer with him. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
::From what I know, #REDIRECT to sections does not work in MediaWiki; it redirects to the top of the page instead. Beware of that. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:20, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

== Style guide on sidebar; More admins and bureaucrats? ==

[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I edited [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] to put the [[Wikihack:Style guide]] in the navigation box on the left. (It might not show on some pages until you reload the page.)

Meanwhile, I was wondering if we should designate more wiki administrators. [[Special:Listusers/sysop]] shows who we have now, but  because founder [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] has not edited here since October 2005, that leaves Jayt, ZeroOne and myself. It is not as if the wiki needs more administrators; though admins have extra tools (mostly the same tools as on Wikipedia!) to fight spam and vandalism, there has not been much need for them. However, admins do get to tinker with the "MediaWiki:" pages, delete extra copies and images, and move pages over other pages.

I am the only "Bureaucrat", a user who can use [[Special:Makesysop]] to make other administrators (or bureaucrats). We might want to make at least one more, in case I am away when someone needs a "promotion". --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

:Yes, this wiki has grown ''a lot'', so I don't think three admins is enough anymore. I nominate [[User:Lotte]] and [[User:Ray Chason]] as new admins. Lotte, although apparently currently on vacation, has been in here for almost as long as myself and Ray has proven himself worthy by doing amazing job with documenting the game history. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::I second these nominations. We are currently blessed with little or no vandalism, and a userbase comprised almost entirely of thoughtful contributors, so without intending to lessen the contributions of other editors, I also nominate [[User:Eidolos]]. Additionally, I would be happy for ZeroOne to become a second bureaucrat. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This is MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>caxplob5wo66c9kzqi3aqpgu9v5ptun</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9952</id>
      <parentid>9950</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-06T20:03:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Addendum */ ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --~~~~''</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="31934">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:You should probably put some kind of (largish) warning on each page saying that the source code is not current. Yes, it's possible to see that the [[Hack.c-1.0]] page isn't from 3.4.3, but just in case. And maybe use a directory like [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]]? --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::That's a good idea. I moved the article to [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]] now. I think it's a very clear form. Who knows when files with the *.c-1.0 extension are introduced to the actual code? ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 17:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, all done! See [[Hack 1.0 source code]]. I agree, we don't need every minor version; I will upload 3.0.0, 3.1.0, 3.2.0, 3.3.0 and 3.4.0, and all the early revisions (none are that big... not that space is an issue - Uncyclopedia takes up 18 gigabytes). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

== Lookup source code by symbol ==

How useful would it have some sort of wikified ctags(1) output for the source code pages?
E.g. [[Functions/rndcurse]] would be a redirect to [[sit.c#line311]], the point where rndcurse is defined.
Perhaps also have [[Functions]] be a master list, for easy searching?
Ctags is known to do a good job on the NetHack code, so this would be a simple bot-programming problem.
--[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 07:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
:I think it's a good idea. [[User:GreyKnight]] had the same idea [[Talk:Source_code#Function/macro reference|here]]; you should probably confer with him. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
::From what I know, #REDIRECT to sections does not work in MediaWiki; it redirects to the top of the page instead. Beware of that. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:20, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

== Style guide on sidebar; More admins and bureaucrats? ==

[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I edited [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] to put the [[Wikihack:Style guide]] in the navigation box on the left. (It might not show on some pages until you reload the page.)

Meanwhile, I was wondering if we should designate more wiki administrators. [[Special:Listusers/sysop]] shows who we have now, but  because founder [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] has not edited here since October 2005, that leaves Jayt, ZeroOne and myself. It is not as if the wiki needs more administrators; though admins have extra tools (mostly the same tools as on Wikipedia!) to fight spam and vandalism, there has not been much need for them. However, admins do get to tinker with the "MediaWiki:" pages, delete extra copies and images, and move pages over other pages.

I am the only "Bureaucrat", a user who can use [[Special:Makesysop]] to make other administrators (or bureaucrats). We might want to make at least one more, in case I am away when someone needs a "promotion". --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

:Yes, this wiki has grown ''a lot'', so I don't think three admins is enough anymore. I nominate [[User:Lotte]] and [[User:Ray Chason]] as new admins. Lotte, although apparently currently on vacation, has been in here for almost as long as myself and Ray has proven himself worthy by doing amazing job with documenting the game history. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::I second these nominations. We are currently blessed with little or no vandalism, and a userbase comprised almost entirely of thoughtful contributors, so without intending to lessen the contributions of other editors, I also nominate [[User:Eidolos]]. Additionally, I would be happy for ZeroOne to become a second bureaucrat. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''</text>
      <sha1>o9w9jpn8ucxodv02hfwe3lvrdmt5oqc</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9955</id>
      <parentid>9952</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-07T00:35:44Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Stefanor</username>
        <id>775</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New javascript-based monster template */  - Elinks tested</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="32426">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:You should probably put some kind of (largish) warning on each page saying that the source code is not current. Yes, it's possible to see that the [[Hack.c-1.0]] page isn't from 3.4.3, but just in case. And maybe use a directory like [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]]? --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::That's a good idea. I moved the article to [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]] now. I think it's a very clear form. Who knows when files with the *.c-1.0 extension are introduced to the actual code? ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 17:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, all done! See [[Hack 1.0 source code]]. I agree, we don't need every minor version; I will upload 3.0.0, 3.1.0, 3.2.0, 3.3.0 and 3.4.0, and all the early revisions (none are that big... not that space is an issue - Uncyclopedia takes up 18 gigabytes). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

== Lookup source code by symbol ==

How useful would it have some sort of wikified ctags(1) output for the source code pages?
E.g. [[Functions/rndcurse]] would be a redirect to [[sit.c#line311]], the point where rndcurse is defined.
Perhaps also have [[Functions]] be a master list, for easy searching?
Ctags is known to do a good job on the NetHack code, so this would be a simple bot-programming problem.
--[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 07:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
:I think it's a good idea. [[User:GreyKnight]] had the same idea [[Talk:Source_code#Function/macro reference|here]]; you should probably confer with him. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
::From what I know, #REDIRECT to sections does not work in MediaWiki; it redirects to the top of the page instead. Beware of that. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:20, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

== Style guide on sidebar; More admins and bureaucrats? ==

[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I edited [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] to put the [[Wikihack:Style guide]] in the navigation box on the left. (It might not show on some pages until you reload the page.)

Meanwhile, I was wondering if we should designate more wiki administrators. [[Special:Listusers/sysop]] shows who we have now, but  because founder [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] has not edited here since October 2005, that leaves Jayt, ZeroOne and myself. It is not as if the wiki needs more administrators; though admins have extra tools (mostly the same tools as on Wikipedia!) to fight spam and vandalism, there has not been much need for them. However, admins do get to tinker with the "MediaWiki:" pages, delete extra copies and images, and move pages over other pages.

I am the only "Bureaucrat", a user who can use [[Special:Makesysop]] to make other administrators (or bureaucrats). We might want to make at least one more, in case I am away when someone needs a "promotion". --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

:Yes, this wiki has grown ''a lot'', so I don't think three admins is enough anymore. I nominate [[User:Lotte]] and [[User:Ray Chason]] as new admins. Lotte, although apparently currently on vacation, has been in here for almost as long as myself and Ray has proven himself worthy by doing amazing job with documenting the game history. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::I second these nominations. We are currently blessed with little or no vandalism, and a userbase comprised almost entirely of thoughtful contributors, so without intending to lessen the contributions of other editors, I also nominate [[User:Eidolos]]. Additionally, I would be happy for ZeroOne to become a second bureaucrat. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''</text>
      <sha1>amnkdakqm8xlysgayaky4gigrzbqf0j</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9980</id>
      <parentid>9955</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-07T12:22:01Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New javascript-based monster template */ is it working now? apparently so.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="33159">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:You should probably put some kind of (largish) warning on each page saying that the source code is not current. Yes, it's possible to see that the [[Hack.c-1.0]] page isn't from 3.4.3, but just in case. And maybe use a directory like [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]]? --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::That's a good idea. I moved the article to [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]] now. I think it's a very clear form. Who knows when files with the *.c-1.0 extension are introduced to the actual code? ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 17:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, all done! See [[Hack 1.0 source code]]. I agree, we don't need every minor version; I will upload 3.0.0, 3.1.0, 3.2.0, 3.3.0 and 3.4.0, and all the early revisions (none are that big... not that space is an issue - Uncyclopedia takes up 18 gigabytes). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

== Lookup source code by symbol ==

How useful would it have some sort of wikified ctags(1) output for the source code pages?
E.g. [[Functions/rndcurse]] would be a redirect to [[sit.c#line311]], the point where rndcurse is defined.
Perhaps also have [[Functions]] be a master list, for easy searching?
Ctags is known to do a good job on the NetHack code, so this would be a simple bot-programming problem.
--[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 07:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
:I think it's a good idea. [[User:GreyKnight]] had the same idea [[Talk:Source_code#Function/macro reference|here]]; you should probably confer with him. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
::From what I know, #REDIRECT to sections does not work in MediaWiki; it redirects to the top of the page instead. Beware of that. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:20, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

== Style guide on sidebar; More admins and bureaucrats? ==

[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I edited [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] to put the [[Wikihack:Style guide]] in the navigation box on the left. (It might not show on some pages until you reload the page.)

Meanwhile, I was wondering if we should designate more wiki administrators. [[Special:Listusers/sysop]] shows who we have now, but  because founder [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] has not edited here since October 2005, that leaves Jayt, ZeroOne and myself. It is not as if the wiki needs more administrators; though admins have extra tools (mostly the same tools as on Wikipedia!) to fight spam and vandalism, there has not been much need for them. However, admins do get to tinker with the "MediaWiki:" pages, delete extra copies and images, and move pages over other pages.

I am the only "Bureaucrat", a user who can use [[Special:Makesysop]] to make other administrators (or bureaucrats). We might want to make at least one more, in case I am away when someone needs a "promotion". --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

:Yes, this wiki has grown ''a lot'', so I don't think three admins is enough anymore. I nominate [[User:Lotte]] and [[User:Ray Chason]] as new admins. Lotte, although apparently currently on vacation, has been in here for almost as long as myself and Ray has proven himself worthy by doing amazing job with documenting the game history. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::I second these nominations. We are currently blessed with little or no vandalism, and a userbase comprised almost entirely of thoughtful contributors, so without intending to lessen the contributions of other editors, I also nominate [[User:Eidolos]]. Additionally, I would be happy for ZeroOne to become a second bureaucrat. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>edfwlu4q1cgoyu3w3ygnnh64xt9uq0t</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>9992</id>
      <parentid>9980</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-08T01:39:44Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Style guide on sidebar; More admins and bureaucrats? */ Promoted.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="33586">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:You should probably put some kind of (largish) warning on each page saying that the source code is not current. Yes, it's possible to see that the [[Hack.c-1.0]] page isn't from 3.4.3, but just in case. And maybe use a directory like [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]]? --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::That's a good idea. I moved the article to [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]] now. I think it's a very clear form. Who knows when files with the *.c-1.0 extension are introduced to the actual code? ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 17:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, all done! See [[Hack 1.0 source code]]. I agree, we don't need every minor version; I will upload 3.0.0, 3.1.0, 3.2.0, 3.3.0 and 3.4.0, and all the early revisions (none are that big... not that space is an issue - Uncyclopedia takes up 18 gigabytes). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

== Lookup source code by symbol ==

How useful would it have some sort of wikified ctags(1) output for the source code pages?
E.g. [[Functions/rndcurse]] would be a redirect to [[sit.c#line311]], the point where rndcurse is defined.
Perhaps also have [[Functions]] be a master list, for easy searching?
Ctags is known to do a good job on the NetHack code, so this would be a simple bot-programming problem.
--[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 07:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
:I think it's a good idea. [[User:GreyKnight]] had the same idea [[Talk:Source_code#Function/macro reference|here]]; you should probably confer with him. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
::From what I know, #REDIRECT to sections does not work in MediaWiki; it redirects to the top of the page instead. Beware of that. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:20, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

== Style guide on sidebar; More admins and bureaucrats? ==

[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I edited [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] to put the [[Wikihack:Style guide]] in the navigation box on the left. (It might not show on some pages until you reload the page.)

Meanwhile, I was wondering if we should designate more wiki administrators. [[Special:Listusers/sysop]] shows who we have now, but  because founder [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] has not edited here since October 2005, that leaves Jayt, ZeroOne and myself. It is not as if the wiki needs more administrators; though admins have extra tools (mostly the same tools as on Wikipedia!) to fight spam and vandalism, there has not been much need for them. However, admins do get to tinker with the "MediaWiki:" pages, delete extra copies and images, and move pages over other pages.

I am the only "Bureaucrat", a user who can use [[Special:Makesysop]] to make other administrators (or bureaucrats). We might want to make at least one more, in case I am away when someone needs a "promotion". --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

:Yes, this wiki has grown ''a lot'', so I don't think three admins is enough anymore. I nominate [[User:Lotte]] and [[User:Ray Chason]] as new admins. Lotte, although apparently currently on vacation, has been in here for almost as long as myself and Ray has proven himself worthy by doing amazing job with documenting the game history. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::I second these nominations. We are currently blessed with little or no vandalism, and a userbase comprised almost entirely of thoughtful contributors, so without intending to lessen the contributions of other editors, I also nominate [[User:Eidolos]]. Additionally, I would be happy for ZeroOne to become a second bureaucrat. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Okay, I went and promoted Lotte, Ray Chason, Eidolos to sysop and ZeroOne to bureaucrat. (Lotte was also accidentally bureaucrat for a short while; thank you [[w:User:Splarka|Splarka]] for fixing my mistake!) Now I have to go leave messages on their talk pages... [[User talk:Lotte]], [[User talk:Ray Chason]], [[User talk:Eidolos]], [[User talk:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]]. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:39, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>awwjyjpkw77gnbhfjo42kbbs09ewdjq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10027</id>
      <parentid>9992</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-08T13:38:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New javascript-based monster template */ final version. last chance to complain!</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="34248">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:You should probably put some kind of (largish) warning on each page saying that the source code is not current. Yes, it's possible to see that the [[Hack.c-1.0]] page isn't from 3.4.3, but just in case. And maybe use a directory like [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]]? --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::That's a good idea. I moved the article to [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]] now. I think it's a very clear form. Who knows when files with the *.c-1.0 extension are introduced to the actual code? ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 17:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, all done! See [[Hack 1.0 source code]]. I agree, we don't need every minor version; I will upload 3.0.0, 3.1.0, 3.2.0, 3.3.0 and 3.4.0, and all the early revisions (none are that big... not that space is an issue - Uncyclopedia takes up 18 gigabytes). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

== Lookup source code by symbol ==

How useful would it have some sort of wikified ctags(1) output for the source code pages?
E.g. [[Functions/rndcurse]] would be a redirect to [[sit.c#line311]], the point where rndcurse is defined.
Perhaps also have [[Functions]] be a master list, for easy searching?
Ctags is known to do a good job on the NetHack code, so this would be a simple bot-programming problem.
--[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 07:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
:I think it's a good idea. [[User:GreyKnight]] had the same idea [[Talk:Source_code#Function/macro reference|here]]; you should probably confer with him. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
::From what I know, #REDIRECT to sections does not work in MediaWiki; it redirects to the top of the page instead. Beware of that. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:20, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

== Style guide on sidebar; More admins and bureaucrats? ==

[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I edited [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] to put the [[Wikihack:Style guide]] in the navigation box on the left. (It might not show on some pages until you reload the page.)

Meanwhile, I was wondering if we should designate more wiki administrators. [[Special:Listusers/sysop]] shows who we have now, but  because founder [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] has not edited here since October 2005, that leaves Jayt, ZeroOne and myself. It is not as if the wiki needs more administrators; though admins have extra tools (mostly the same tools as on Wikipedia!) to fight spam and vandalism, there has not been much need for them. However, admins do get to tinker with the "MediaWiki:" pages, delete extra copies and images, and move pages over other pages.

I am the only "Bureaucrat", a user who can use [[Special:Makesysop]] to make other administrators (or bureaucrats). We might want to make at least one more, in case I am away when someone needs a "promotion". --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

:Yes, this wiki has grown ''a lot'', so I don't think three admins is enough anymore. I nominate [[User:Lotte]] and [[User:Ray Chason]] as new admins. Lotte, although apparently currently on vacation, has been in here for almost as long as myself and Ray has proven himself worthy by doing amazing job with documenting the game history. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::I second these nominations. We are currently blessed with little or no vandalism, and a userbase comprised almost entirely of thoughtful contributors, so without intending to lessen the contributions of other editors, I also nominate [[User:Eidolos]]. Additionally, I would be happy for ZeroOne to become a second bureaucrat. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Okay, I went and promoted Lotte, Ray Chason, Eidolos to sysop and ZeroOne to bureaucrat. (Lotte was also accidentally bureaucrat for a short while; thank you [[w:User:Splarka|Splarka]] for fixing my mistake!) Now I have to go leave messages on their talk pages... [[User talk:Lotte]], [[User talk:Ray Chason]], [[User talk:Eidolos]], [[User talk:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]]. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:39, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{test
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>7hi76xz6jvdln6ww8mapovfb4n8kzed</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10044</id>
      <parentid>10027</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-08T16:24:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eidolos</username>
        <id>239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Final comments */ Exclude monster name from attributes.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="34439">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:You should probably put some kind of (largish) warning on each page saying that the source code is not current. Yes, it's possible to see that the [[Hack.c-1.0]] page isn't from 3.4.3, but just in case. And maybe use a directory like [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]]? --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::That's a good idea. I moved the article to [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]] now. I think it's a very clear form. Who knows when files with the *.c-1.0 extension are introduced to the actual code? ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 17:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, all done! See [[Hack 1.0 source code]]. I agree, we don't need every minor version; I will upload 3.0.0, 3.1.0, 3.2.0, 3.3.0 and 3.4.0, and all the early revisions (none are that big... not that space is an issue - Uncyclopedia takes up 18 gigabytes). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

== Lookup source code by symbol ==

How useful would it have some sort of wikified ctags(1) output for the source code pages?
E.g. [[Functions/rndcurse]] would be a redirect to [[sit.c#line311]], the point where rndcurse is defined.
Perhaps also have [[Functions]] be a master list, for easy searching?
Ctags is known to do a good job on the NetHack code, so this would be a simple bot-programming problem.
--[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 07:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
:I think it's a good idea. [[User:GreyKnight]] had the same idea [[Talk:Source_code#Function/macro reference|here]]; you should probably confer with him. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
::From what I know, #REDIRECT to sections does not work in MediaWiki; it redirects to the top of the page instead. Beware of that. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:20, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

== Style guide on sidebar; More admins and bureaucrats? ==

[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I edited [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] to put the [[Wikihack:Style guide]] in the navigation box on the left. (It might not show on some pages until you reload the page.)

Meanwhile, I was wondering if we should designate more wiki administrators. [[Special:Listusers/sysop]] shows who we have now, but  because founder [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] has not edited here since October 2005, that leaves Jayt, ZeroOne and myself. It is not as if the wiki needs more administrators; though admins have extra tools (mostly the same tools as on Wikipedia!) to fight spam and vandalism, there has not been much need for them. However, admins do get to tinker with the "MediaWiki:" pages, delete extra copies and images, and move pages over other pages.

I am the only "Bureaucrat", a user who can use [[Special:Makesysop]] to make other administrators (or bureaucrats). We might want to make at least one more, in case I am away when someone needs a "promotion". --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

:Yes, this wiki has grown ''a lot'', so I don't think three admins is enough anymore. I nominate [[User:Lotte]] and [[User:Ray Chason]] as new admins. Lotte, although apparently currently on vacation, has been in here for almost as long as myself and Ray has proven himself worthy by doing amazing job with documenting the game history. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::I second these nominations. We are currently blessed with little or no vandalism, and a userbase comprised almost entirely of thoughtful contributors, so without intending to lessen the contributions of other editors, I also nominate [[User:Eidolos]]. Additionally, I would be happy for ZeroOne to become a second bureaucrat. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Okay, I went and promoted Lotte, Ray Chason, Eidolos to sysop and ZeroOne to bureaucrat. (Lotte was also accidentally bureaucrat for a short while; thank you [[w:User:Splarka|Splarka]] for fixing my mistake!) Now I have to go leave messages on their talk pages... [[User talk:Lotte]], [[User talk:Ray Chason]], [[User talk:Eidolos]], [[User talk:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]]. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:39, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{test
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>hrhvmi58o12sk1af0jv2n6uiwqpfwzq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10081</id>
      <parentid>10044</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-08T21:51:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eidolos</username>
        <id>239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Final comments */ Afterwards I'll autoupload the rest of the monsters.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="34648">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:You should probably put some kind of (largish) warning on each page saying that the source code is not current. Yes, it's possible to see that the [[Hack.c-1.0]] page isn't from 3.4.3, but just in case. And maybe use a directory like [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]]? --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::That's a good idea. I moved the article to [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]] now. I think it's a very clear form. Who knows when files with the *.c-1.0 extension are introduced to the actual code? ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 17:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, all done! See [[Hack 1.0 source code]]. I agree, we don't need every minor version; I will upload 3.0.0, 3.1.0, 3.2.0, 3.3.0 and 3.4.0, and all the early revisions (none are that big... not that space is an issue - Uncyclopedia takes up 18 gigabytes). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

== Lookup source code by symbol ==

How useful would it have some sort of wikified ctags(1) output for the source code pages?
E.g. [[Functions/rndcurse]] would be a redirect to [[sit.c#line311]], the point where rndcurse is defined.
Perhaps also have [[Functions]] be a master list, for easy searching?
Ctags is known to do a good job on the NetHack code, so this would be a simple bot-programming problem.
--[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 07:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
:I think it's a good idea. [[User:GreyKnight]] had the same idea [[Talk:Source_code#Function/macro reference|here]]; you should probably confer with him. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
::From what I know, #REDIRECT to sections does not work in MediaWiki; it redirects to the top of the page instead. Beware of that. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:20, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

== Style guide on sidebar; More admins and bureaucrats? ==

[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I edited [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] to put the [[Wikihack:Style guide]] in the navigation box on the left. (It might not show on some pages until you reload the page.)

Meanwhile, I was wondering if we should designate more wiki administrators. [[Special:Listusers/sysop]] shows who we have now, but  because founder [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] has not edited here since October 2005, that leaves Jayt, ZeroOne and myself. It is not as if the wiki needs more administrators; though admins have extra tools (mostly the same tools as on Wikipedia!) to fight spam and vandalism, there has not been much need for them. However, admins do get to tinker with the "MediaWiki:" pages, delete extra copies and images, and move pages over other pages.

I am the only "Bureaucrat", a user who can use [[Special:Makesysop]] to make other administrators (or bureaucrats). We might want to make at least one more, in case I am away when someone needs a "promotion". --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

:Yes, this wiki has grown ''a lot'', so I don't think three admins is enough anymore. I nominate [[User:Lotte]] and [[User:Ray Chason]] as new admins. Lotte, although apparently currently on vacation, has been in here for almost as long as myself and Ray has proven himself worthy by doing amazing job with documenting the game history. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::I second these nominations. We are currently blessed with little or no vandalism, and a userbase comprised almost entirely of thoughtful contributors, so without intending to lessen the contributions of other editors, I also nominate [[User:Eidolos]]. Additionally, I would be happy for ZeroOne to become a second bureaucrat. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Okay, I went and promoted Lotte, Ray Chason, Eidolos to sysop and ZeroOne to bureaucrat. (Lotte was also accidentally bureaucrat for a short while; thank you [[w:User:Splarka|Splarka]] for fixing my mistake!) Now I have to go leave messages on their talk pages... [[User talk:Lotte]], [[User talk:Ray Chason]], [[User talk:Eidolos]], [[User talk:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]]. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:39, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{test
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>qo8g88ejy6o8ku000n5f8fzt6i2nxmj</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>10263</id>
      <parentid>10081</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-11T12:19:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Final comments */ all done ; Google Analytics</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="35304">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:You should probably put some kind of (largish) warning on each page saying that the source code is not current. Yes, it's possible to see that the [[Hack.c-1.0]] page isn't from 3.4.3, but just in case. And maybe use a directory like [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]]? --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::That's a good idea. I moved the article to [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]] now. I think it's a very clear form. Who knows when files with the *.c-1.0 extension are introduced to the actual code? ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 17:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, all done! See [[Hack 1.0 source code]]. I agree, we don't need every minor version; I will upload 3.0.0, 3.1.0, 3.2.0, 3.3.0 and 3.4.0, and all the early revisions (none are that big... not that space is an issue - Uncyclopedia takes up 18 gigabytes). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

== Lookup source code by symbol ==

How useful would it have some sort of wikified ctags(1) output for the source code pages?
E.g. [[Functions/rndcurse]] would be a redirect to [[sit.c#line311]], the point where rndcurse is defined.
Perhaps also have [[Functions]] be a master list, for easy searching?
Ctags is known to do a good job on the NetHack code, so this would be a simple bot-programming problem.
--[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 07:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
:I think it's a good idea. [[User:GreyKnight]] had the same idea [[Talk:Source_code#Function/macro reference|here]]; you should probably confer with him. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
::From what I know, #REDIRECT to sections does not work in MediaWiki; it redirects to the top of the page instead. Beware of that. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:20, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

== Style guide on sidebar; More admins and bureaucrats? ==

[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I edited [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] to put the [[Wikihack:Style guide]] in the navigation box on the left. (It might not show on some pages until you reload the page.)

Meanwhile, I was wondering if we should designate more wiki administrators. [[Special:Listusers/sysop]] shows who we have now, but  because founder [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] has not edited here since October 2005, that leaves Jayt, ZeroOne and myself. It is not as if the wiki needs more administrators; though admins have extra tools (mostly the same tools as on Wikipedia!) to fight spam and vandalism, there has not been much need for them. However, admins do get to tinker with the "MediaWiki:" pages, delete extra copies and images, and move pages over other pages.

I am the only "Bureaucrat", a user who can use [[Special:Makesysop]] to make other administrators (or bureaucrats). We might want to make at least one more, in case I am away when someone needs a "promotion". --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

:Yes, this wiki has grown ''a lot'', so I don't think three admins is enough anymore. I nominate [[User:Lotte]] and [[User:Ray Chason]] as new admins. Lotte, although apparently currently on vacation, has been in here for almost as long as myself and Ray has proven himself worthy by doing amazing job with documenting the game history. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::I second these nominations. We are currently blessed with little or no vandalism, and a userbase comprised almost entirely of thoughtful contributors, so without intending to lessen the contributions of other editors, I also nominate [[User:Eidolos]]. Additionally, I would be happy for ZeroOne to become a second bureaucrat. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Okay, I went and promoted Lotte, Ray Chason, Eidolos to sysop and ZeroOne to bureaucrat. (Lotte was also accidentally bureaucrat for a short while; thank you [[w:User:Splarka|Splarka]] for fixing my mistake!) Now I have to go leave messages on their talk pages... [[User talk:Lotte]], [[User talk:Ray Chason]], [[User talk:Eidolos]], [[User talk:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]]. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:39, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>cl2h602h5b84lvhtsowe7kti97kns9u</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>11000</id>
      <parentid>10263</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-24T00:15:38Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Lotte</username>
        <id>509</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Item drops?</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="35713">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:You should probably put some kind of (largish) warning on each page saying that the source code is not current. Yes, it's possible to see that the [[Hack.c-1.0]] page isn't from 3.4.3, but just in case. And maybe use a directory like [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]]? --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::That's a good idea. I moved the article to [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]] now. I think it's a very clear form. Who knows when files with the *.c-1.0 extension are introduced to the actual code? ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 17:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, all done! See [[Hack 1.0 source code]]. I agree, we don't need every minor version; I will upload 3.0.0, 3.1.0, 3.2.0, 3.3.0 and 3.4.0, and all the early revisions (none are that big... not that space is an issue - Uncyclopedia takes up 18 gigabytes). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

== Lookup source code by symbol ==

How useful would it have some sort of wikified ctags(1) output for the source code pages?
E.g. [[Functions/rndcurse]] would be a redirect to [[sit.c#line311]], the point where rndcurse is defined.
Perhaps also have [[Functions]] be a master list, for easy searching?
Ctags is known to do a good job on the NetHack code, so this would be a simple bot-programming problem.
--[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 07:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
:I think it's a good idea. [[User:GreyKnight]] had the same idea [[Talk:Source_code#Function/macro reference|here]]; you should probably confer with him. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
::From what I know, #REDIRECT to sections does not work in MediaWiki; it redirects to the top of the page instead. Beware of that. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:20, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

== Style guide on sidebar; More admins and bureaucrats? ==

[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I edited [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] to put the [[Wikihack:Style guide]] in the navigation box on the left. (It might not show on some pages until you reload the page.)

Meanwhile, I was wondering if we should designate more wiki administrators. [[Special:Listusers/sysop]] shows who we have now, but  because founder [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] has not edited here since October 2005, that leaves Jayt, ZeroOne and myself. It is not as if the wiki needs more administrators; though admins have extra tools (mostly the same tools as on Wikipedia!) to fight spam and vandalism, there has not been much need for them. However, admins do get to tinker with the "MediaWiki:" pages, delete extra copies and images, and move pages over other pages.

I am the only "Bureaucrat", a user who can use [[Special:Makesysop]] to make other administrators (or bureaucrats). We might want to make at least one more, in case I am away when someone needs a "promotion". --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

:Yes, this wiki has grown ''a lot'', so I don't think three admins is enough anymore. I nominate [[User:Lotte]] and [[User:Ray Chason]] as new admins. Lotte, although apparently currently on vacation, has been in here for almost as long as myself and Ray has proven himself worthy by doing amazing job with documenting the game history. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::I second these nominations. We are currently blessed with little or no vandalism, and a userbase comprised almost entirely of thoughtful contributors, so without intending to lessen the contributions of other editors, I also nominate [[User:Eidolos]]. Additionally, I would be happy for ZeroOne to become a second bureaucrat. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Okay, I went and promoted Lotte, Ray Chason, Eidolos to sysop and ZeroOne to bureaucrat. (Lotte was also accidentally bureaucrat for a short while; thank you [[w:User:Splarka|Splarka]] for fixing my mistake!) Now I have to go leave messages on their talk pages... [[User talk:Lotte]], [[User talk:Ray Chason]], [[User talk:Eidolos]], [[User talk:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]]. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:39, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>6apk0d7w9urto78wpjjo25syl1u5hgs</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>11003</id>
      <parentid>11000</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-24T00:28:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Item drops? */ I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --~~~~</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="35899">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:You should probably put some kind of (largish) warning on each page saying that the source code is not current. Yes, it's possible to see that the [[Hack.c-1.0]] page isn't from 3.4.3, but just in case. And maybe use a directory like [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]]? --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::That's a good idea. I moved the article to [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]] now. I think it's a very clear form. Who knows when files with the *.c-1.0 extension are introduced to the actual code? ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 17:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, all done! See [[Hack 1.0 source code]]. I agree, we don't need every minor version; I will upload 3.0.0, 3.1.0, 3.2.0, 3.3.0 and 3.4.0, and all the early revisions (none are that big... not that space is an issue - Uncyclopedia takes up 18 gigabytes). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

== Lookup source code by symbol ==

How useful would it have some sort of wikified ctags(1) output for the source code pages?
E.g. [[Functions/rndcurse]] would be a redirect to [[sit.c#line311]], the point where rndcurse is defined.
Perhaps also have [[Functions]] be a master list, for easy searching?
Ctags is known to do a good job on the NetHack code, so this would be a simple bot-programming problem.
--[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 07:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
:I think it's a good idea. [[User:GreyKnight]] had the same idea [[Talk:Source_code#Function/macro reference|here]]; you should probably confer with him. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
::From what I know, #REDIRECT to sections does not work in MediaWiki; it redirects to the top of the page instead. Beware of that. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:20, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

== Style guide on sidebar; More admins and bureaucrats? ==

[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I edited [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] to put the [[Wikihack:Style guide]] in the navigation box on the left. (It might not show on some pages until you reload the page.)

Meanwhile, I was wondering if we should designate more wiki administrators. [[Special:Listusers/sysop]] shows who we have now, but  because founder [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] has not edited here since October 2005, that leaves Jayt, ZeroOne and myself. It is not as if the wiki needs more administrators; though admins have extra tools (mostly the same tools as on Wikipedia!) to fight spam and vandalism, there has not been much need for them. However, admins do get to tinker with the "MediaWiki:" pages, delete extra copies and images, and move pages over other pages.

I am the only "Bureaucrat", a user who can use [[Special:Makesysop]] to make other administrators (or bureaucrats). We might want to make at least one more, in case I am away when someone needs a "promotion". --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

:Yes, this wiki has grown ''a lot'', so I don't think three admins is enough anymore. I nominate [[User:Lotte]] and [[User:Ray Chason]] as new admins. Lotte, although apparently currently on vacation, has been in here for almost as long as myself and Ray has proven himself worthy by doing amazing job with documenting the game history. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::I second these nominations. We are currently blessed with little or no vandalism, and a userbase comprised almost entirely of thoughtful contributors, so without intending to lessen the contributions of other editors, I also nominate [[User:Eidolos]]. Additionally, I would be happy for ZeroOne to become a second bureaucrat. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Okay, I went and promoted Lotte, Ray Chason, Eidolos to sysop and ZeroOne to bureaucrat. (Lotte was also accidentally bureaucrat for a short while; thank you [[w:User:Splarka|Splarka]] for fixing my mistake!) Now I have to go leave messages on their talk pages... [[User talk:Lotte]], [[User talk:Ray Chason]], [[User talk:Eidolos]], [[User talk:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]]. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:39, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>t0v4ej5s2gbxcj1a5hlh9cwutgam9ys</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>11023</id>
      <parentid>11003</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-24T12:14:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Item drops? */ monequip spoiler</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="36285">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:You should probably put some kind of (largish) warning on each page saying that the source code is not current. Yes, it's possible to see that the [[Hack.c-1.0]] page isn't from 3.4.3, but just in case. And maybe use a directory like [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]]? --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::That's a good idea. I moved the article to [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]] now. I think it's a very clear form. Who knows when files with the *.c-1.0 extension are introduced to the actual code? ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 17:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, all done! See [[Hack 1.0 source code]]. I agree, we don't need every minor version; I will upload 3.0.0, 3.1.0, 3.2.0, 3.3.0 and 3.4.0, and all the early revisions (none are that big... not that space is an issue - Uncyclopedia takes up 18 gigabytes). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

== Lookup source code by symbol ==

How useful would it have some sort of wikified ctags(1) output for the source code pages?
E.g. [[Functions/rndcurse]] would be a redirect to [[sit.c#line311]], the point where rndcurse is defined.
Perhaps also have [[Functions]] be a master list, for easy searching?
Ctags is known to do a good job on the NetHack code, so this would be a simple bot-programming problem.
--[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 07:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
:I think it's a good idea. [[User:GreyKnight]] had the same idea [[Talk:Source_code#Function/macro reference|here]]; you should probably confer with him. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
::From what I know, #REDIRECT to sections does not work in MediaWiki; it redirects to the top of the page instead. Beware of that. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:20, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

== Style guide on sidebar; More admins and bureaucrats? ==

[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I edited [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] to put the [[Wikihack:Style guide]] in the navigation box on the left. (It might not show on some pages until you reload the page.)

Meanwhile, I was wondering if we should designate more wiki administrators. [[Special:Listusers/sysop]] shows who we have now, but  because founder [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] has not edited here since October 2005, that leaves Jayt, ZeroOne and myself. It is not as if the wiki needs more administrators; though admins have extra tools (mostly the same tools as on Wikipedia!) to fight spam and vandalism, there has not been much need for them. However, admins do get to tinker with the "MediaWiki:" pages, delete extra copies and images, and move pages over other pages.

I am the only "Bureaucrat", a user who can use [[Special:Makesysop]] to make other administrators (or bureaucrats). We might want to make at least one more, in case I am away when someone needs a "promotion". --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

:Yes, this wiki has grown ''a lot'', so I don't think three admins is enough anymore. I nominate [[User:Lotte]] and [[User:Ray Chason]] as new admins. Lotte, although apparently currently on vacation, has been in here for almost as long as myself and Ray has proven himself worthy by doing amazing job with documenting the game history. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::I second these nominations. We are currently blessed with little or no vandalism, and a userbase comprised almost entirely of thoughtful contributors, so without intending to lessen the contributions of other editors, I also nominate [[User:Eidolos]]. Additionally, I would be happy for ZeroOne to become a second bureaucrat. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Okay, I went and promoted Lotte, Ray Chason, Eidolos to sysop and ZeroOne to bureaucrat. (Lotte was also accidentally bureaucrat for a short while; thank you [[w:User:Splarka|Splarka]] for fixing my mistake!) Now I have to go leave messages on their talk pages... [[User talk:Lotte]], [[User talk:Ray Chason]], [[User talk:Eidolos]], [[User talk:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]]. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:39, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>gft3qtpjayvhjm9q4hhmih3ei41xmws</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>11169</id>
      <parentid>11023</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-24T17:33:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Lotte</username>
        <id>509</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Item drops? */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="36521">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:You should probably put some kind of (largish) warning on each page saying that the source code is not current. Yes, it's possible to see that the [[Hack.c-1.0]] page isn't from 3.4.3, but just in case. And maybe use a directory like [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]]? --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::That's a good idea. I moved the article to [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]] now. I think it's a very clear form. Who knows when files with the *.c-1.0 extension are introduced to the actual code? ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 17:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, all done! See [[Hack 1.0 source code]]. I agree, we don't need every minor version; I will upload 3.0.0, 3.1.0, 3.2.0, 3.3.0 and 3.4.0, and all the early revisions (none are that big... not that space is an issue - Uncyclopedia takes up 18 gigabytes). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

== Lookup source code by symbol ==

How useful would it have some sort of wikified ctags(1) output for the source code pages?
E.g. [[Functions/rndcurse]] would be a redirect to [[sit.c#line311]], the point where rndcurse is defined.
Perhaps also have [[Functions]] be a master list, for easy searching?
Ctags is known to do a good job on the NetHack code, so this would be a simple bot-programming problem.
--[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 07:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
:I think it's a good idea. [[User:GreyKnight]] had the same idea [[Talk:Source_code#Function/macro reference|here]]; you should probably confer with him. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
::From what I know, #REDIRECT to sections does not work in MediaWiki; it redirects to the top of the page instead. Beware of that. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:20, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

== Style guide on sidebar; More admins and bureaucrats? ==

[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I edited [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] to put the [[Wikihack:Style guide]] in the navigation box on the left. (It might not show on some pages until you reload the page.)

Meanwhile, I was wondering if we should designate more wiki administrators. [[Special:Listusers/sysop]] shows who we have now, but  because founder [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] has not edited here since October 2005, that leaves Jayt, ZeroOne and myself. It is not as if the wiki needs more administrators; though admins have extra tools (mostly the same tools as on Wikipedia!) to fight spam and vandalism, there has not been much need for them. However, admins do get to tinker with the "MediaWiki:" pages, delete extra copies and images, and move pages over other pages.

I am the only "Bureaucrat", a user who can use [[Special:Makesysop]] to make other administrators (or bureaucrats). We might want to make at least one more, in case I am away when someone needs a "promotion". --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

:Yes, this wiki has grown ''a lot'', so I don't think three admins is enough anymore. I nominate [[User:Lotte]] and [[User:Ray Chason]] as new admins. Lotte, although apparently currently on vacation, has been in here for almost as long as myself and Ray has proven himself worthy by doing amazing job with documenting the game history. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::I second these nominations. We are currently blessed with little or no vandalism, and a userbase comprised almost entirely of thoughtful contributors, so without intending to lessen the contributions of other editors, I also nominate [[User:Eidolos]]. Additionally, I would be happy for ZeroOne to become a second bureaucrat. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Okay, I went and promoted Lotte, Ray Chason, Eidolos to sysop and ZeroOne to bureaucrat. (Lotte was also accidentally bureaucrat for a short while; thank you [[w:User:Splarka|Splarka]] for fixing my mistake!) Now I have to go leave messages on their talk pages... [[User talk:Lotte]], [[User talk:Ray Chason]], [[User talk:Eidolos]], [[User talk:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]]. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:39, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>b9sztdu1q1o3h5oeivqaq6uyclytrt2</sha1>
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      <id>11671</id>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="36617">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:You should probably put some kind of (largish) warning on each page saying that the source code is not current. Yes, it's possible to see that the [[Hack.c-1.0]] page isn't from 3.4.3, but just in case. And maybe use a directory like [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]]? --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::That's a good idea. I moved the article to [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]] now. I think it's a very clear form. Who knows when files with the *.c-1.0 extension are introduced to the actual code? ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 17:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, all done! See [[Hack 1.0 source code]]. I agree, we don't need every minor version; I will upload 3.0.0, 3.1.0, 3.2.0, 3.3.0 and 3.4.0, and all the early revisions (none are that big... not that space is an issue - Uncyclopedia takes up 18 gigabytes). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

== Lookup source code by symbol ==

How useful would it have some sort of wikified ctags(1) output for the source code pages?
E.g. [[Functions/rndcurse]] would be a redirect to [[sit.c#line311]], the point where rndcurse is defined.
Perhaps also have [[Functions]] be a master list, for easy searching?
Ctags is known to do a good job on the NetHack code, so this would be a simple bot-programming problem.
--[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 07:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
:I think it's a good idea. [[User:GreyKnight]] had the same idea [[Talk:Source_code#Function/macro reference|here]]; you should probably confer with him. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
::From what I know, #REDIRECT to sections does not work in MediaWiki; it redirects to the top of the page instead. Beware of that. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:20, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

== Style guide on sidebar; More admins and bureaucrats? ==

[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I edited [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] to put the [[Wikihack:Style guide]] in the navigation box on the left. (It might not show on some pages until you reload the page.)

Meanwhile, I was wondering if we should designate more wiki administrators. [[Special:Listusers/sysop]] shows who we have now, but  because founder [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] has not edited here since October 2005, that leaves Jayt, ZeroOne and myself. It is not as if the wiki needs more administrators; though admins have extra tools (mostly the same tools as on Wikipedia!) to fight spam and vandalism, there has not been much need for them. However, admins do get to tinker with the "MediaWiki:" pages, delete extra copies and images, and move pages over other pages.

I am the only "Bureaucrat", a user who can use [[Special:Makesysop]] to make other administrators (or bureaucrats). We might want to make at least one more, in case I am away when someone needs a "promotion". --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

:Yes, this wiki has grown ''a lot'', so I don't think three admins is enough anymore. I nominate [[User:Lotte]] and [[User:Ray Chason]] as new admins. Lotte, although apparently currently on vacation, has been in here for almost as long as myself and Ray has proven himself worthy by doing amazing job with documenting the game history. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::I second these nominations. We are currently blessed with little or no vandalism, and a userbase comprised almost entirely of thoughtful contributors, so without intending to lessen the contributions of other editors, I also nominate [[User:Eidolos]]. Additionally, I would be happy for ZeroOne to become a second bureaucrat. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Okay, I went and promoted Lotte, Ray Chason, Eidolos to sysop and ZeroOne to bureaucrat. (Lotte was also accidentally bureaucrat for a short while; thank you [[w:User:Splarka|Splarka]] for fixing my mistake!) Now I have to go leave messages on their talk pages... [[User talk:Lotte]], [[User talk:Ray Chason]], [[User talk:Eidolos]], [[User talk:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]]. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:39, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Instructional ttyrecs ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas?</text>
      <sha1>o1v1ist5gq84ncjae97j6b7ueo4urih</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>11680</id>
      <parentid>11671</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-25T13:23:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Stumbly</username>
        <id>783</id>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="36624">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:You should probably put some kind of (largish) warning on each page saying that the source code is not current. Yes, it's possible to see that the [[Hack.c-1.0]] page isn't from 3.4.3, but just in case. And maybe use a directory like [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]]? --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::That's a good idea. I moved the article to [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]] now. I think it's a very clear form. Who knows when files with the *.c-1.0 extension are introduced to the actual code? ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 17:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, all done! See [[Hack 1.0 source code]]. I agree, we don't need every minor version; I will upload 3.0.0, 3.1.0, 3.2.0, 3.3.0 and 3.4.0, and all the early revisions (none are that big... not that space is an issue - Uncyclopedia takes up 18 gigabytes). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

== Lookup source code by symbol ==

How useful would it have some sort of wikified ctags(1) output for the source code pages?
E.g. [[Functions/rndcurse]] would be a redirect to [[sit.c#line311]], the point where rndcurse is defined.
Perhaps also have [[Functions]] be a master list, for easy searching?
Ctags is known to do a good job on the NetHack code, so this would be a simple bot-programming problem.
--[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 07:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
:I think it's a good idea. [[User:GreyKnight]] had the same idea [[Talk:Source_code#Function/macro reference|here]]; you should probably confer with him. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
::From what I know, #REDIRECT to sections does not work in MediaWiki; it redirects to the top of the page instead. Beware of that. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:20, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

== Style guide on sidebar; More admins and bureaucrats? ==

[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I edited [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] to put the [[Wikihack:Style guide]] in the navigation box on the left. (It might not show on some pages until you reload the page.)

Meanwhile, I was wondering if we should designate more wiki administrators. [[Special:Listusers/sysop]] shows who we have now, but  because founder [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] has not edited here since October 2005, that leaves Jayt, ZeroOne and myself. It is not as if the wiki needs more administrators; though admins have extra tools (mostly the same tools as on Wikipedia!) to fight spam and vandalism, there has not been much need for them. However, admins do get to tinker with the "MediaWiki:" pages, delete extra copies and images, and move pages over other pages.

I am the only "Bureaucrat", a user who can use [[Special:Makesysop]] to make other administrators (or bureaucrats). We might want to make at least one more, in case I am away when someone needs a "promotion". --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

:Yes, this wiki has grown ''a lot'', so I don't think three admins is enough anymore. I nominate [[User:Lotte]] and [[User:Ray Chason]] as new admins. Lotte, although apparently currently on vacation, has been in here for almost as long as myself and Ray has proven himself worthy by doing amazing job with documenting the game history. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::I second these nominations. We are currently blessed with little or no vandalism, and a userbase comprised almost entirely of thoughtful contributors, so without intending to lessen the contributions of other editors, I also nominate [[User:Eidolos]]. Additionally, I would be happy for ZeroOne to become a second bureaucrat. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Okay, I went and promoted Lotte, Ray Chason, Eidolos to sysop and ZeroOne to bureaucrat. (Lotte was also accidentally bureaucrat for a short while; thank you [[w:User:Splarka|Splarka]] for fixing my mistake!) Now I have to go leave messages on their talk pages... [[User talk:Lotte]], [[User talk:Ray Chason]], [[User talk:Eidolos]], [[User talk:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]]. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:39, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas?</text>
      <sha1>jm27t14vknwjhyittd1c9k8of5aa1pb</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>11688</id>
      <parentid>11680</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-25T13:36:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Instructional ttyrecs */ unsigned post by Stumbly + reply</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="37023">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:You should probably put some kind of (largish) warning on each page saying that the source code is not current. Yes, it's possible to see that the [[Hack.c-1.0]] page isn't from 3.4.3, but just in case. And maybe use a directory like [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]]? --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::That's a good idea. I moved the article to [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]] now. I think it's a very clear form. Who knows when files with the *.c-1.0 extension are introduced to the actual code? ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 17:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, all done! See [[Hack 1.0 source code]]. I agree, we don't need every minor version; I will upload 3.0.0, 3.1.0, 3.2.0, 3.3.0 and 3.4.0, and all the early revisions (none are that big... not that space is an issue - Uncyclopedia takes up 18 gigabytes). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

== Lookup source code by symbol ==

How useful would it have some sort of wikified ctags(1) output for the source code pages?
E.g. [[Functions/rndcurse]] would be a redirect to [[sit.c#line311]], the point where rndcurse is defined.
Perhaps also have [[Functions]] be a master list, for easy searching?
Ctags is known to do a good job on the NetHack code, so this would be a simple bot-programming problem.
--[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 07:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
:I think it's a good idea. [[User:GreyKnight]] had the same idea [[Talk:Source_code#Function/macro reference|here]]; you should probably confer with him. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
::From what I know, #REDIRECT to sections does not work in MediaWiki; it redirects to the top of the page instead. Beware of that. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:20, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

== Style guide on sidebar; More admins and bureaucrats? ==

[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I edited [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] to put the [[Wikihack:Style guide]] in the navigation box on the left. (It might not show on some pages until you reload the page.)

Meanwhile, I was wondering if we should designate more wiki administrators. [[Special:Listusers/sysop]] shows who we have now, but  because founder [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] has not edited here since October 2005, that leaves Jayt, ZeroOne and myself. It is not as if the wiki needs more administrators; though admins have extra tools (mostly the same tools as on Wikipedia!) to fight spam and vandalism, there has not been much need for them. However, admins do get to tinker with the "MediaWiki:" pages, delete extra copies and images, and move pages over other pages.

I am the only "Bureaucrat", a user who can use [[Special:Makesysop]] to make other administrators (or bureaucrats). We might want to make at least one more, in case I am away when someone needs a "promotion". --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

:Yes, this wiki has grown ''a lot'', so I don't think three admins is enough anymore. I nominate [[User:Lotte]] and [[User:Ray Chason]] as new admins. Lotte, although apparently currently on vacation, has been in here for almost as long as myself and Ray has proven himself worthy by doing amazing job with documenting the game history. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::I second these nominations. We are currently blessed with little or no vandalism, and a userbase comprised almost entirely of thoughtful contributors, so without intending to lessen the contributions of other editors, I also nominate [[User:Eidolos]]. Additionally, I would be happy for ZeroOne to become a second bureaucrat. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Okay, I went and promoted Lotte, Ray Chason, Eidolos to sysop and ZeroOne to bureaucrat. (Lotte was also accidentally bureaucrat for a short while; thank you [[w:User:Splarka|Splarka]] for fixing my mistake!) Now I have to go leave messages on their talk pages... [[User talk:Lotte]], [[User talk:Ray Chason]], [[User talk:Eidolos]], [[User talk:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]]. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:39, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>3nt0g4trkfudmbuly5xlnhw9m5kvhl7</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>12482</id>
      <parentid>11688</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-26T17:21:44Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Multiple entities on one page</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="38235">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:You should probably put some kind of (largish) warning on each page saying that the source code is not current. Yes, it's possible to see that the [[Hack.c-1.0]] page isn't from 3.4.3, but just in case. And maybe use a directory like [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]]? --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::That's a good idea. I moved the article to [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]] now. I think it's a very clear form. Who knows when files with the *.c-1.0 extension are introduced to the actual code? ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 17:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, all done! See [[Hack 1.0 source code]]. I agree, we don't need every minor version; I will upload 3.0.0, 3.1.0, 3.2.0, 3.3.0 and 3.4.0, and all the early revisions (none are that big... not that space is an issue - Uncyclopedia takes up 18 gigabytes). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

== Lookup source code by symbol ==

How useful would it have some sort of wikified ctags(1) output for the source code pages?
E.g. [[Functions/rndcurse]] would be a redirect to [[sit.c#line311]], the point where rndcurse is defined.
Perhaps also have [[Functions]] be a master list, for easy searching?
Ctags is known to do a good job on the NetHack code, so this would be a simple bot-programming problem.
--[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 07:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
:I think it's a good idea. [[User:GreyKnight]] had the same idea [[Talk:Source_code#Function/macro reference|here]]; you should probably confer with him. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
::From what I know, #REDIRECT to sections does not work in MediaWiki; it redirects to the top of the page instead. Beware of that. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:20, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

== Style guide on sidebar; More admins and bureaucrats? ==

[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I edited [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] to put the [[Wikihack:Style guide]] in the navigation box on the left. (It might not show on some pages until you reload the page.)

Meanwhile, I was wondering if we should designate more wiki administrators. [[Special:Listusers/sysop]] shows who we have now, but  because founder [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] has not edited here since October 2005, that leaves Jayt, ZeroOne and myself. It is not as if the wiki needs more administrators; though admins have extra tools (mostly the same tools as on Wikipedia!) to fight spam and vandalism, there has not been much need for them. However, admins do get to tinker with the "MediaWiki:" pages, delete extra copies and images, and move pages over other pages.

I am the only "Bureaucrat", a user who can use [[Special:Makesysop]] to make other administrators (or bureaucrats). We might want to make at least one more, in case I am away when someone needs a "promotion". --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

:Yes, this wiki has grown ''a lot'', so I don't think three admins is enough anymore. I nominate [[User:Lotte]] and [[User:Ray Chason]] as new admins. Lotte, although apparently currently on vacation, has been in here for almost as long as myself and Ray has proven himself worthy by doing amazing job with documenting the game history. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::I second these nominations. We are currently blessed with little or no vandalism, and a userbase comprised almost entirely of thoughtful contributors, so without intending to lessen the contributions of other editors, I also nominate [[User:Eidolos]]. Additionally, I would be happy for ZeroOne to become a second bureaucrat. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Okay, I went and promoted Lotte, Ray Chason, Eidolos to sysop and ZeroOne to bureaucrat. (Lotte was also accidentally bureaucrat for a short while; thank you [[w:User:Splarka|Splarka]] for fixing my mistake!) Now I have to go leave messages on their talk pages... [[User talk:Lotte]], [[User talk:Ray Chason]], [[User talk:Eidolos]], [[User talk:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]]. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:39, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>1b7wuasgcv9j2ydxeg3x8m0j39kj0oc</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>12487</id>
      <parentid>12482</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-26T18:24:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>SGrunt</username>
        <id>712</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Multiple entities on one page */ I object (to a very specific case)</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="38739">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:You should probably put some kind of (largish) warning on each page saying that the source code is not current. Yes, it's possible to see that the [[Hack.c-1.0]] page isn't from 3.4.3, but just in case. And maybe use a directory like [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]]? --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::That's a good idea. I moved the article to [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]] now. I think it's a very clear form. Who knows when files with the *.c-1.0 extension are introduced to the actual code? ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 17:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, all done! See [[Hack 1.0 source code]]. I agree, we don't need every minor version; I will upload 3.0.0, 3.1.0, 3.2.0, 3.3.0 and 3.4.0, and all the early revisions (none are that big... not that space is an issue - Uncyclopedia takes up 18 gigabytes). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

== Lookup source code by symbol ==

How useful would it have some sort of wikified ctags(1) output for the source code pages?
E.g. [[Functions/rndcurse]] would be a redirect to [[sit.c#line311]], the point where rndcurse is defined.
Perhaps also have [[Functions]] be a master list, for easy searching?
Ctags is known to do a good job on the NetHack code, so this would be a simple bot-programming problem.
--[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 07:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
:I think it's a good idea. [[User:GreyKnight]] had the same idea [[Talk:Source_code#Function/macro reference|here]]; you should probably confer with him. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
::From what I know, #REDIRECT to sections does not work in MediaWiki; it redirects to the top of the page instead. Beware of that. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:20, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

== Style guide on sidebar; More admins and bureaucrats? ==

[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I edited [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] to put the [[Wikihack:Style guide]] in the navigation box on the left. (It might not show on some pages until you reload the page.)

Meanwhile, I was wondering if we should designate more wiki administrators. [[Special:Listusers/sysop]] shows who we have now, but  because founder [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] has not edited here since October 2005, that leaves Jayt, ZeroOne and myself. It is not as if the wiki needs more administrators; though admins have extra tools (mostly the same tools as on Wikipedia!) to fight spam and vandalism, there has not been much need for them. However, admins do get to tinker with the "MediaWiki:" pages, delete extra copies and images, and move pages over other pages.

I am the only "Bureaucrat", a user who can use [[Special:Makesysop]] to make other administrators (or bureaucrats). We might want to make at least one more, in case I am away when someone needs a "promotion". --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

:Yes, this wiki has grown ''a lot'', so I don't think three admins is enough anymore. I nominate [[User:Lotte]] and [[User:Ray Chason]] as new admins. Lotte, although apparently currently on vacation, has been in here for almost as long as myself and Ray has proven himself worthy by doing amazing job with documenting the game history. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::I second these nominations. We are currently blessed with little or no vandalism, and a userbase comprised almost entirely of thoughtful contributors, so without intending to lessen the contributions of other editors, I also nominate [[User:Eidolos]]. Additionally, I would be happy for ZeroOne to become a second bureaucrat. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Okay, I went and promoted Lotte, Ray Chason, Eidolos to sysop and ZeroOne to bureaucrat. (Lotte was also accidentally bureaucrat for a short while; thank you [[w:User:Splarka|Splarka]] for fixing my mistake!) Now I have to go leave messages on their talk pages... [[User talk:Lotte]], [[User talk:Ray Chason]], [[User talk:Eidolos]], [[User talk:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]]. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:39, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
*The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>16bkn0fliavvxj3obvhbdi8k6ziv969</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>12505</id>
      <parentid>12487</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-26T22:46:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Multiple entities on one page */ dragon's aren't that similar, plus usability and consistency issues</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="39518">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:You should probably put some kind of (largish) warning on each page saying that the source code is not current. Yes, it's possible to see that the [[Hack.c-1.0]] page isn't from 3.4.3, but just in case. And maybe use a directory like [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]]? --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::That's a good idea. I moved the article to [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]] now. I think it's a very clear form. Who knows when files with the *.c-1.0 extension are introduced to the actual code? ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 17:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, all done! See [[Hack 1.0 source code]]. I agree, we don't need every minor version; I will upload 3.0.0, 3.1.0, 3.2.0, 3.3.0 and 3.4.0, and all the early revisions (none are that big... not that space is an issue - Uncyclopedia takes up 18 gigabytes). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

== Lookup source code by symbol ==

How useful would it have some sort of wikified ctags(1) output for the source code pages?
E.g. [[Functions/rndcurse]] would be a redirect to [[sit.c#line311]], the point where rndcurse is defined.
Perhaps also have [[Functions]] be a master list, for easy searching?
Ctags is known to do a good job on the NetHack code, so this would be a simple bot-programming problem.
--[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 07:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
:I think it's a good idea. [[User:GreyKnight]] had the same idea [[Talk:Source_code#Function/macro reference|here]]; you should probably confer with him. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
::From what I know, #REDIRECT to sections does not work in MediaWiki; it redirects to the top of the page instead. Beware of that. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:20, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

== Style guide on sidebar; More admins and bureaucrats? ==

[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I edited [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] to put the [[Wikihack:Style guide]] in the navigation box on the left. (It might not show on some pages until you reload the page.)

Meanwhile, I was wondering if we should designate more wiki administrators. [[Special:Listusers/sysop]] shows who we have now, but  because founder [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] has not edited here since October 2005, that leaves Jayt, ZeroOne and myself. It is not as if the wiki needs more administrators; though admins have extra tools (mostly the same tools as on Wikipedia!) to fight spam and vandalism, there has not been much need for them. However, admins do get to tinker with the "MediaWiki:" pages, delete extra copies and images, and move pages over other pages.

I am the only "Bureaucrat", a user who can use [[Special:Makesysop]] to make other administrators (or bureaucrats). We might want to make at least one more, in case I am away when someone needs a "promotion". --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

:Yes, this wiki has grown ''a lot'', so I don't think three admins is enough anymore. I nominate [[User:Lotte]] and [[User:Ray Chason]] as new admins. Lotte, although apparently currently on vacation, has been in here for almost as long as myself and Ray has proven himself worthy by doing amazing job with documenting the game history. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::I second these nominations. We are currently blessed with little or no vandalism, and a userbase comprised almost entirely of thoughtful contributors, so without intending to lessen the contributions of other editors, I also nominate [[User:Eidolos]]. Additionally, I would be happy for ZeroOne to become a second bureaucrat. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Okay, I went and promoted Lotte, Ray Chason, Eidolos to sysop and ZeroOne to bureaucrat. (Lotte was also accidentally bureaucrat for a short while; thank you [[w:User:Splarka|Splarka]] for fixing my mistake!) Now I have to go leave messages on their talk pages... [[User talk:Lotte]], [[User talk:Ray Chason]], [[User talk:Eidolos]], [[User talk:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]]. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:39, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>kbga9rtea41k6elkyrvrb1wde5es25t</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>12845</id>
      <parentid>12505</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-30T11:58:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
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      <comment>/* Multiple entities on one page */ any further comments?</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="39686">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Commented / uncommented source code categories ==

I think the source code pages should be categorized based on whether they are commented or not. When all pages are commented (probably not within this year), the scheme can be completely removed. Until that, it would be a helpful aid in knowing what pages still need comments. Maybe Jayt's bot could do the categorizing? Before the bot uploaded them all, all source code pages that were added were commented pretty much right away. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 10:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think any of the source files are fully annotated yet. [[Artifact.c]] looks about 20% done; maybe we could add a note to that effect on [[Source code]], like this:

*[[allmain.c]]
*[[alloc.c]]
*[[apply.c]]
*[[artifact.c]] (20% annotated)
*...

:AFAIK, all the annotations have been by Kernigh. Kernigh, would you like to track your progress on [[Source code]], with notes like the above? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

:: [[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I might start doing something like that in the future. Note that "100%" would probably only mean that every function is documented somehow, but someone might still want to perform cleanup or make corrections or add more thorough documentation. For example, the paragraph under [[artifact.c#line1219]], about invoking [[the Staff of Aesculapius]], neglects to mention that is causes a "You feel better" message.

:: Meanwhile, ''anyone'' can look through the source and add percentages to the [[source code]] page. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 02:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

:::If we are going to use percentages then I suggest we borrow the [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Template:Stages 5-stage concept] from Wikibooks. Replace the word "text" by the word "comments" and start adding those little images next to those links! 87.5% would round up to 100%.
:::About your second point, it's just that it's a really tedious process, there being hundreds of source files. That's why I suggested a bot could do it. It shouldn't be too difficult, just compare the number of lines that are source code against the number of lines that not source code, right? --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:33, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
::::I like the 5 stages ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations", "developed annotations", "comprehensive annotations"). If we add stage 0 to the beginning ("no annotations"), we can just let an empty space stand for that. Since the great majority of files are not annotated, that means a lot less work. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:59, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm planning on automating the addition of monster data to wikiHack. As a stepping stone project I could write a script to parse the source code and display the annotation status of each file next to its name. I see two options

:::::Option 1 - put a single line at the top of every code file indicating its annotation status. ie: &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;!--annotation: 50% --&gt; or &lt;!--annotation: a --&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;, where the letters a,b,c ... correspond to ("sparse annotations", "developing annotations", "maturing annotations" ...). The script would parse each source file biweekly and update the annotation status on the index page.

:::::Option 2 - run a one time script on the index page to put a status code next to each file. Whoever annotates the code should update the status.

:::::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== Dylan O'Donnell spoilers ==

While these are a great resource, I don't especially like the mass copying of them here. It's redundant. The idea of the wiki, as I understand it, is to do and say things text-based spoilers currently do not. Interface alone doesn't seem like enough of a difference. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
:A goal of the wiki for me is to make it a "total spoiler", where you can find any piece of information about the game. If all information is going to be added eventually, we may as well add it in a structured way, and I think the DOD spoilers are great in that respect. However, they are not perfect: there are at least two ways we can improve them using this wiki: wikilinks, and commentary/strategy. The text-spoilers are ''very'' conservative in offering only facts, with no opinions. I think we can relax that a bit and have a Comments/Strategy section on every page. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
::I agree with Lotte in that I hate the spoiler look. They are too abstract and concise. It's impossible to learn anything about playing the game by reading one. They always remind me of the parts catalogues in auto body shops. 

::I also realize that the spoilers contain good information. They are a great reference (once you understand them) because they were written by experts for experts. It's the format and presenatation that sucks. They are a great starting point as long as we reformat them and collate the information in a meaningful way.

::-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::Is it pages like [[potion of object detection]] you don't like? How would you go about changing them? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to writeup a sample article on potion of acid but did not get the chance. It's not the [[potion of object detection]] pages that are bad. It's pages like [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Scrl-343.txt this one]. All the object detection page needs is more commentary and moving the canonical messages into their ouw section. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure what you mean by moving the canonical messages, but I agree about xxxx-343.txt. Those are just here for reference - they're not intended to be the final word on "potn"s, "scrl"s and "spl1"s. When I said we can improve these spoilers, I didn't mean we should use them as a base. I meant we should take the information in those spoilers and completely refactor it into wiki articles. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 09:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

== WikiHack upload bot ==

I would like to upload a set of images and articles to WikiHack and would like a bot to automate the process. 

Please point me to open source bots. My first preference is for bots written in C++, with Perl a close second. I am willing to learn Python if bots in the aforementioned languages are not available. 

Also, I am new to wikis in general. Please point me to resources about writing and managing bots on wikis. I have a great deal of programming experience, so I am not looking for a coding tut, rather I want an explanation of how bots and wikis communicate with each other.

Thanks in advance
-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
:There is lots of info for you to digest about [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Pywikipediabot Pywikipediabot], a set of python scripts designed to do pretty much exactly what you want, by the sounds of it (one of them is upload.py). This wiki is powered by Mediawiki, the same software that wikipedia uses, so pywikipediabot fits in nicely.

:The most important thing about running a bot is not to let it run rampant! Do a few test runs first, and discuss it here, on this page - there is a chance that you have something crazy planned which the rest of the community would like the chance to dispute :-). So what ''do'' you have planned? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

::I have some time this weekend and I was planning on uploading all the x16 graphic tiles. There are 764 tiles in all and I have managed to split them into images correspondence to their NetHack names. See [[Wikihack:NetHack Tiles]] for the index. When I do run the bot, do I need a delay between each upload? -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

:::You should probably upload as [[User:PraetorFenixBot]] and write on that user page what the bot is doing. 764 uploads will flood Recentchanges whether you wait 2 minutes between uploads or not; I suggest a minimal delay, as then it will be flooded only for a few hours. 
:::The page should be simply [[Tiles]], since it's about NetHack, not Wikihack. I also think it will look nice when it's done! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::::I moved the page to [[List of vanilla NetHack tiles]]. I think [[tiles]] could be a separate article discussing them, listing alternatives etc. The list is a reference-like article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 22:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

::: Well, ran into some delays. Who would've guessed that the python scripts needed additional configuration before they would run :). Anyway, it's late so i'll turn in for today. The images will be uploaded tomorrow. I've created a new category for them 'NetHack Tiles x16'. In the meantime I wrote this article on running [[wikihack:wikiBot]]s, enjoy ;)

::: The image 'Image:Horse.PNG' has to be deleted or renamed.

== Ideas for improving {{tl|monster}}? ==

The monster template, in use on [[soldier ant]] and hopefully soon to be in use on [[owlbear]], is big and ugly. It's unabashedly based on the Monster Manual, but not completely. It doesn't include the line of supplementary information, like "A wererat has no hands. It can regenerate itself. etc." It ''does'' include near-useless information like Frequency and Difficulty. Finally, its length makes it interfere with section titles below

I suggest a shorter infobox for the top of the article:

{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|{{brown|Y}}
|-
!'''Base level'''
|5
|-
!'''Base AC'''
|5
|-
!'''Speed'''
|12
|-
!'''Attacks'''
|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;
Bearhug: 2d8
|}

This gives a quick appraisal of the major things you need to worry about (how tough it is, how easily you can hit it, how fast it can hit you, and how hard it can hit you).

Then, at the end of the article, we can have a ==Detailed stats== section which contains the full Monster Manual table, and all info about what kind of hands it has and all that.

Does anybody have any better ideas? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 18:08, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:Looks good. Could the 16x16 tiles go there? In a lot of articles there just isn't a good place to put it and in my opinion at least they look awkward just slapped randomly into the text. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 23:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: When I check monster spoilers, I usually want to know whether to eat its corpse. I like Jayt's short, simple version of {{tl|monster}}, and I agree with Lotte that we should include tiles, but I suggest fitting in one more line, something like this: --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::{|class="wikitable"
! Corpse
| Poisonous, gives [[poison resistance]]
|}

:::OK, I added a corpse line. The new template is {{tl|monsterbasics}}. I've updated [[owlbear]] to use it. {{tl|monster}} still exists for the full infobox, but I [[User:BotFenix|see]] PraetorFenix has plans to auto-wikify this data, which I greatly encourage, as there are 250+ monsters. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

::::One piece of information I have failed to find from anywhere is, whether polymorphing into a certain kind of monster breaks your armor. The size obviously isn't the only criteria as, for example, winged gargoyles are human-sized but their wings break the armor anyway. Two other pieces of information of some interest to me are the food the monster eats (can it eat metal/rocks) and what special abilities other than attacks does the monster have - dragons fly, xorns have the phasing ability, etc. Although I'm not sure if any of these would merit their place in this template. Maybe they just need to be mentioned in the article. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 02:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
:I am strongly in favor of the short info box as I think the ant template is too clunky. Once everyone decides on the templates and information therin I am planning on writing a script to parse the code and automatically place the template the monster page.

:Now the top of the page should have a mini template, but this does not mean that there should only be one template. We can include several templates in a page. I'm thinking in terms of three templates. A small one at the top that lists critical information that's frequently checked. A medium one with corpse data and other releveant info about the monster. And a canonical one listing all the other monster data at the bottom of the page.

:I would like everyone to be happy with the end result and have the information they need represented in the templates. So before we proceed we should find out what information players are looking for.

:Here's my suggestions
:{|class="wikitable"
!width="10%"|{{brown|Y}}
!width="80%" colspan="2"|Bug Bear
!width="10%"|[[Image:bugbear.png]]
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base level'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Base AC'''
|colspan="2"|5
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Speed'''
|colspan="2"|12
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attacks'''
|colspan="2"|Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Claw: 1d6&lt;br/&gt;Bearhug: 2d8
|-
!colspan="2"|'''Attack Resistances'''
|colspan="2"|None.
|}

:Now I would like the glyph and tile to be at the extreme ends of the table but could not figure out the html.

:{|class="wikitable"
!colspan="2"|Corpse
|-
!Nutrition
|50
|-
!Effects
|Is Poisonous
|-
!Conveyances
|[[poison resistance]]
|-
!colspan="2"|Attributes
|-
|colspan="2"|
* has humanoid head/arms/torso
* omnivorous
* strong (or big) monster
* picks up weapons and food
* visible by infravision
* has infravision
|-
|}

:-- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::Where would you put the Corpse infobox? Somewhere in the middle of the page?
::In your example, the Attributes are really those of the monster rather than its corpse, and surely belong in the Full Info box.
::Are a monster's attack resistances really Important? I'm not sure. I think the Important infobox should be about what the monster can do to you, not what you can do to it. Hence the AC line probably doesn't belong there either. I would much rather strip this box down to the basics than have all possible relevant info creep in. A well-designed Full Info box should make it easy enough to find out any additional information, especially if we place it at the end of every monster page - then the procedure for finding out corpse info is: 1) type in monster name, 2) scroll to bottom, 3) voila. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
::I've also changed the code in your suggestion - something about having a table within a table was breaking the whole page layout. I'm afraid it doesn't look quite right, but I'm no HTML/CSS expert either. FWIW, I think having the name of the monster here is redundant since this box is going right at the top of the page, just under the page title, which is the monster's name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

:::I changed the html of the table even further - I believe it looks now like it is supposed to.
:::Here's just an idea: we could use only one template, if we had a way to hide the lesser-used information. See [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser|Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser]] for an example of such a behaviour. Scroll to Version history: it says "Select show to expand". If we could reverse-engineer how that works, well, wouldn't it be cool?
:::Jayt: I think it is not redundant to put the name of the monster in the box in case there are several monsters on the same article, such as [[piercer]] or [[mummies]]. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:24, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

::::I followed the instructions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:ShowHide here] for a showhide template, and have it working with my user CSS/JS. It's going to need a lot more tweaking to get it working nicely, but it looks good! What a great idea! :-) Yes, you are right about the infobox needing the monster name. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Update: I give up. I'm not a CSS coder by trade. If anyone wants to try making something neat, copy [[User:Jayt/common.css]], [[User:Jayt/monobook.css]], and [[User:Jayt/monobook.js]] to the same locations under your user page and edit [[Template:Showhide]]. I think what we really want is the ability to toggle between displaying two different divs rather than showing or hiding one. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 19:02, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

:::: Hey, this is a neat idea ZeroOne. Thanks for finding the code Jayt. I'll give it a shot, but I'm no web guru, so we'll see. -- [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]] 02:26, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

==Community Portal pruning==

I made an archive page containing all the old topics. Please don't delete old conversations without putting them elsewhere! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

== New main page ==

I've created a layout for a [[User:Jayt/Sandbox/Main_Page|new main page]]. The goal is to provide links straight to the good stuff, and to give a high-level overview of the whole wiki. I'd like to keep the links in the Items and Roles columns as they are, but the remaining two columns are up for grabs if anyone has a better idea how to fill them.

We need really excellent featured-article quality articles for each of the roles.

The line of monsters at the bottom is more gimmicky than useful, but it looks nice (and, importantly, adds instant NetHack flavour). One potential improvement is to have every monster listed here. That means, for example, having 8 or so brown {{brown|d}}s. That's a good job for a script.

Also, is anyone browsing with a low screen resolution? Are 4 columns too much for 800x600? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

: The 4 colums seem to barely fit in my browser window; it is the row of monsters at the bottom that is too wide. Perhaps the lowercase and uppercase monsters could be on different rows? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

::I've done some considerable tweaking to the overview template; it's now 6 boxes arranged as two rows of three columns. I've used nhtohtml to list all monsters, in rows of 30 symbols at a time. Hopefully this will fit on most sensible screens. If there are no objections, I will replace the current main page with the new one soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 00:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== monst.c -&gt; {{tl|monster}} ==

While making the monster box on the front page, I realised that [http://nethack.simra.net/nhtohtml/nhtohtml.tar.gz nhtohtml.pl] is exactly what we need to  generate the data to fill the {{tl|monster}} template once it's done. I would still like to see a clever javascript minibox/maxibox thing. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

== CSS tweak to stop long templates overlapping headings ==

I added the following lines to my [[User:Jayt/monobook.css|user CSS]]:

 h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  clear: both;
 }
 
 div.editsection {
  clear:right;
 } 

This fixes pages like [[Dagger]] which previously had long templates overlapping the next section header. The minor downside is that a lot of whitespace opens up. The major downside is that the [edit] link is no longer lined up with the section header.

If anyone has a fix for this, or if nobody thinks it's a big deal, I'll add this code to the [[Mediawiki:Monobook.css|main CSS]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

: I tried to "fix" the [[Dagger]] page by borrowing {{tl|clear}} from another wiki and using it to manually clear above sections that have templates. (I had previously used it to control sections containg floating images on pages like [[w:c:Gameinfo:ADOM]].) I also tried to adjust {{tl|weapon}} to appear nicer; it now uses the same markup as floating images to draw a white border.

: That leaves two options: adding {{tl|clear}}s to other pages that need them, or following Jayt's suggestion of clearing under all h2...h6. I do want to avoid misaligning those [edit] links if possible. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

:: OK, {{tl|clear}} seems to be a better way to achieve a nice look, but it feels very wrong: it's a big step backwards from semantic markup and kind of annoying to have to use it for every overlong infobox.  I'm sure there must be a way to do this in CSS, but, again, I'm not a CSS expert. I will use {{tl|clear}} for now. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

== New bots ==

[[User:Eidobot]] and [[User:Jaytbot]] have been flagged as bots. I'm sure we can get [[User:BotFenix]] flagged if that's going to be used in the future. The edits of bots are hidden in [[Special:RecentChanges]] by default, but can be seen by clicking "Show bots". --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 10:55, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

== Featured articles on the main page ==

''see [[Talk:Main Page#Featured article?]]''

== Polling extension ==

&lt;poll&gt;
Favorite alignment?
Lawful
Neutral
Chaotic
&lt;/poll&gt;

Wikia recently installed support for polls. Here is one to play with. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

== Source code for old versions ==

Would anybody be interested in having historical source code available as wiki articles? It might be useful to link to from the [[History]] pages, as well as being kind of interesting. It is not available anywhere else on the net in plain text format - only in archives. See an example: [[Hack.c-1.0]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:Well, how many files does, say, Hack 1.0 have? I don't think that every patch version needs their complete source uploaded, as most of the code is same anyway. Maybe just one of each major version? The current source files should in my opinion just be replaced with new versions when the next version comes out. That makes it interesting, because then you can use the Mediawiki built-in "show differences" command. :) When version 4.0.0 comes out, if it ever comes out, the 3.x.x version files can be archived and completely new articles for the new files can be started. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:You should probably put some kind of (largish) warning on each page saying that the source code is not current. Yes, it's possible to see that the [[Hack.c-1.0]] page isn't from 3.4.3, but just in case. And maybe use a directory like [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]]? --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 15:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

::That's a good idea. I moved the article to [[Hack 1.0/hack.c]] now. I think it's a very clear form. Who knows when files with the *.c-1.0 extension are introduced to the actual code? ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 17:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, all done! See [[Hack 1.0 source code]]. I agree, we don't need every minor version; I will upload 3.0.0, 3.1.0, 3.2.0, 3.3.0 and 3.4.0, and all the early revisions (none are that big... not that space is an issue - Uncyclopedia takes up 18 gigabytes). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:24, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

== Lookup source code by symbol ==

How useful would it have some sort of wikified ctags(1) output for the source code pages?
E.g. [[Functions/rndcurse]] would be a redirect to [[sit.c#line311]], the point where rndcurse is defined.
Perhaps also have [[Functions]] be a master list, for easy searching?
Ctags is known to do a good job on the NetHack code, so this would be a simple bot-programming problem.
--[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 07:58, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
:I think it's a good idea. [[User:GreyKnight]] had the same idea [[Talk:Source_code#Function/macro reference|here]]; you should probably confer with him. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:03, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
::From what I know, #REDIRECT to sections does not work in MediaWiki; it redirects to the top of the page instead. Beware of that. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:20, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

== Style guide on sidebar; More admins and bureaucrats? ==

[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] writes: I edited [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] to put the [[Wikihack:Style guide]] in the navigation box on the left. (It might not show on some pages until you reload the page.)

Meanwhile, I was wondering if we should designate more wiki administrators. [[Special:Listusers/sysop]] shows who we have now, but  because founder [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] has not edited here since October 2005, that leaves Jayt, ZeroOne and myself. It is not as if the wiki needs more administrators; though admins have extra tools (mostly the same tools as on Wikipedia!) to fight spam and vandalism, there has not been much need for them. However, admins do get to tinker with the "MediaWiki:" pages, delete extra copies and images, and move pages over other pages.

I am the only "Bureaucrat", a user who can use [[Special:Makesysop]] to make other administrators (or bureaucrats). We might want to make at least one more, in case I am away when someone needs a "promotion". --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 22:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

:Yes, this wiki has grown ''a lot'', so I don't think three admins is enough anymore. I nominate [[User:Lotte]] and [[User:Ray Chason]] as new admins. Lotte, although apparently currently on vacation, has been in here for almost as long as myself and Ray has proven himself worthy by doing amazing job with documenting the game history. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::I second these nominations. We are currently blessed with little or no vandalism, and a userbase comprised almost entirely of thoughtful contributors, so without intending to lessen the contributions of other editors, I also nominate [[User:Eidolos]]. Additionally, I would be happy for ZeroOne to become a second bureaucrat. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Okay, I went and promoted Lotte, Ray Chason, Eidolos to sysop and ZeroOne to bureaucrat. (Lotte was also accidentally bureaucrat for a short while; thank you [[w:User:Splarka|Splarka]] for fixing my mistake!) Now I have to go leave messages on their talk pages... [[User talk:Lotte]], [[User talk:Ray Chason]], [[User talk:Eidolos]], [[User talk:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]]. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 01:39, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>5in92m78lykqjbkhqeel23fla2sguu5</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>12869</id>
      <parentid>12845</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-09-30T22:54:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Moved older topics to 2nd archive.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="13763">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>c5c6212vyxbvg60a43tujhsybaps93z</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>12894</id>
      <parentid>12869</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-10-01T02:56:14Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Killian</username>
        <id>467</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>HI_LEATHER and logical colours</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="14241">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>4dre97mgzg9nimqumr5zk04slfza70c</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>13003</id>
      <parentid>12894</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-10-01T14:03:12Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Logical colour templates */ use {{leather}}, etc.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="14553">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>3jkknuxby4rqsfpyfffaatlijjix8rq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>13008</id>
      <parentid>13003</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-10-01T15:04:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>any problem with this new template?</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="15257">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>36n5k4lw5su096ixonn6s0k39vnevqk</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>13448</id>
      <parentid>13008</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-10-03T19:27:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>SGrunt</username>
        <id>712</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Internal names for article titles</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="16056">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>iw20omf72zc3pvaymolb45pip6uede9</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>13450</id>
      <parentid>13448</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-10-03T19:32:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>SGrunt</username>
        <id>712</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Another tweak to the monster template */ I support this</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="16178">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>biwcikddqjn33b39h1iymyvnrhdm5ye</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>13455</id>
      <parentid>13450</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-10-03T21:31:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jayt</username>
        <id>396</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Internal names for article titles */ agreed</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="16319">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ezqkwa5m32zifi601m43tf1yb01vhwl</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>13460</id>
      <parentid>13455</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-10-04T01:30:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>SGrunt</username>
        <id>712</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Internal names for article titles */ Hence why I've left them where they are. -- ~~~~</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="16416">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>99vcn4t6n1fbbiygohwvwsi3ghyj2o0</sha1>
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      <comment>there was a problem with some of the infobox templates putting too much vertical whitespace in pages</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="17094">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)</text>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="17382">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>pzuavfopmlz7y2130va1tl5o4xvjovq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>13942</id>
      <parentid>13941</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-10-13T16:11:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>131.107.0.75</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Google Analytics */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="17459">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

* /*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>3pev79vc6xpmmyi0ixx1ep7sbrbqvh6</sha1>
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      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Google Analytics */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="17458">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

* *coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)</text>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="17650">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>pyzv3cd0jm5q933f8t3lizlri369hte</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>14351</id>
      <parentid>13944</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-10-16T21:17:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Linking to Wikipedia</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="18421">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[w:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[w:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>424samevezod90u2wj066peymhnebfi</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>14356</id>
      <parentid>14351</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-10-17T00:11:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>SGrunt</username>
        <id>712</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>agreed</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="18742">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[w:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[w:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>tu9eo9to9dt1dhkkxcxvnjhf564ahtk</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>14365</id>
      <parentid>14356</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-10-17T04:29:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Linking to Wikipedia */ ("wikipedia:" not "w:")</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="18946">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))</text>
      <sha1>5lqlqnk5tydpu3mj22qmmbn4v5w2hi2</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>16252</id>
      <parentid>14365</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-12-09T01:05:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Pokemonman</username>
        <id>645</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Incomplete</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="19074">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.</text>
      <sha1>m5f292zj2wdb7i3er8i9dewy3g6vlcl</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>16253</id>
      <parentid>16252</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-12-09T01:57:37Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Pokemonman</username>
        <id>645</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Incomplete */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="19120">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does.</text>
      <sha1>s5howau2lbt59g5apiz9atq33kkzp3j</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>16262</id>
      <parentid>16253</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-12-09T05:48:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Incomplete */ Added [[wizard lock]].</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="19245">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does.

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>376yqx6neryfurwiiqtef3zzme1i3za</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>16263</id>
      <parentid>16262</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-12-09T12:32:23Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Incomplete */ {{unsigned}} comment</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="19285">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>df9gn3gt742igesbon8a9skl59q0ej4</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>16533</id>
      <parentid>16263</parentid>
      <timestamp>2006-12-21T20:31:01Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Intx13</username>
        <id>374</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Random page function</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="19768">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>pork6pfdmbja2c80fu7n2xrffwtsxvu</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>18978</id>
      <parentid>16533</parentid>
      <timestamp>2007-02-16T15:49:13Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>64.218.194.120</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Random page function */ how it could work</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="20004">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>sitzai9twsgzlozr4pwgbpauy2qgj9h</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>19650</id>
      <parentid>18978</parentid>
      <timestamp>2007-03-13T16:59:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>212.149.217.107</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Please answer</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="20497">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia</text>
      <sha1>ar6t2tndmzktskobhdoz9mllgga01sj</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>19673</id>
      <parentid>19650</parentid>
      <timestamp>2007-03-14T23:08:42Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Cultural references */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="20713">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>mal922cy4kfzl05wy305li09gma756o</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>19683</id>
      <parentid>19673</parentid>
      <timestamp>2007-03-15T15:40:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>212.149.217.107</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Cultural references */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="20743">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.</text>
      <sha1>pcguj32pavj6a8hdhkp46f4mvb5xq4h</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>20076</id>
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        <id>630</id>
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      <comment>NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="21344">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>1rztm9lgssh65ttw6x7vfc0swdyfpb8</sha1>
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      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="4217">HacKeD By UzMaN


http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:_vH72MDpZMGiAM:http://img99.echo.cx/img99/1073/image18ux.jpg


K-0wN_x1.q41 -  Kuzux - ScoRPioN -  Diablo - ZeHiR - HyeNa - And TekHacK.Net



» Bızım Gercek Kıldıklarımızı Sız Hayal Bıle Edemedınız « 


» DALIMIZI KIRANIN ,KÖKÜNÜ SÖKERIZ « 


» YA SUSTURURSUNUZ YADA KAN KUSTURURUZ « 


her ayagına pantolon giyen DELİKANLİ olmaz .. her DELİKANLİ bu dunyanın kahrını cekemeZ!!! «




HacKeD By UzMaN


http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:_vH72MDpZMGiAM:http://img99.echo.cx/img99/1073/image18ux.jpg


K-0wN_x1.q41 -  Kuzux - ScoRPioN -  Diablo - ZeHiR - HyeNa - And TekHacK.Net



» Bızım Gercek Kıldıklarımızı Sız Hayal Bıle Edemedınız « 


» DALIMIZI KIRANIN ,KÖKÜNÜ SÖKERIZ « 


» YA SUSTURURSUNUZ YADA KAN KUSTURURUZ « 


her ayagına pantolon giyen DELİKANLİ olmaz .. her DELİKANLİ bu dunyanın kahrını cekemeZ!!! «




HacKeD By UzMaN


http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:_vH72MDpZMGiAM:http://img99.echo.cx/img99/1073/image18ux.jpg


K-0wN_x1.q41 -  Kuzux - ScoRPioN -  Diablo - ZeHiR - HyeNa - And TekHacK.Net



» Bızım Gercek Kıldıklarımızı Sız Hayal Bıle Edemedınız « 


» DALIMIZI KIRANIN ,KÖKÜNÜ SÖKERIZ « 


» YA SUSTURURSUNUZ YADA KAN KUSTURURUZ « 


her ayagına pantolon giyen DELİKANLİ olmaz .. her DELİKANLİ bu dunyanın kahrını cekemeZ!!! «




HacKeD By UzMaN


http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:_vH72MDpZMGiAM:http://img99.echo.cx/img99/1073/image18ux.jpg


K-0wN_x1.q41 -  Kuzux - ScoRPioN -  Diablo - ZeHiR - HyeNa - And TekHacK.Net



» Bızım Gercek Kıldıklarımızı Sız Hayal Bıle Edemedınız « 


» DALIMIZI KIRANIN ,KÖKÜNÜ SÖKERIZ « 


» YA SUSTURURSUNUZ YADA KAN KUSTURURUZ « 


her ayagına pantolon giyen DELİKANLİ olmaz .. her DELİKANLİ bu dunyanın kahrını cekemeZ!!! «





HacKeD By UzMaN


http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:_vH72MDpZMGiAM:http://img99.echo.cx/img99/1073/image18ux.jpg


K-0wN_x1.q41 -  Kuzux - ScoRPioN -  Diablo - ZeHiR - HyeNa - And TekHacK.Net



» Bızım Gercek Kıldıklarımızı Sız Hayal Bıle Edemedınız « 


» DALIMIZI KIRANIN ,KÖKÜNÜ SÖKERIZ « 


» YA SUSTURURSUNUZ YADA KAN KUSTURURUZ « 


her ayagına pantolon giyen DELİKANLİ olmaz .. her DELİKANLİ bu dunyanın kahrını cekemeZ!!! «




HacKeD By UzMaN


http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:_vH72MDpZMGiAM:http://img99.echo.cx/img99/1073/image18ux.jpg


K-0wN_x1.q41 -  Kuzux - ScoRPioN -  Diablo - ZeHiR - HyeNa - And TekHacK.Net



» Bızım Gercek Kıldıklarımızı Sız Hayal Bıle Edemedınız « 


» DALIMIZI KIRANIN ,KÖKÜNÜ SÖKERIZ « 


» YA SUSTURURSUNUZ YADA KAN KUSTURURUZ « 


her ayagına pantolon giyen DELİKANLİ olmaz .. her DELİKANLİ bu dunyanın kahrını cekemeZ!!! «




HacKeD By UzMaN


http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:_vH72MDpZMGiAM:http://img99.echo.cx/img99/1073/image18ux.jpg


K-0wN_x1.q41 -  Kuzux - ScoRPioN -  Diablo - ZeHiR - HyeNa - And TekHacK.Net



» Bızım Gercek Kıldıklarımızı Sız Hayal Bıle Edemedınız « 


» DALIMIZI KIRANIN ,KÖKÜNÜ SÖKERIZ « 


» YA SUSTURURSUNUZ YADA KAN KUSTURURUZ « 


her ayagına pantolon giyen DELİKANLİ olmaz .. her DELİKANLİ bu dunyanın kahrını cekemeZ!!! «




HacKeD By UzMaN


http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:_vH72MDpZMGiAM:http://img99.echo.cx/img99/1073/image18ux.jpg


K-0wN_x1.q41 -  Kuzux - ScoRPioN -  Diablo - ZeHiR - HyeNa - And TekHacK.Net



» Bızım Gercek Kıldıklarımızı Sız Hayal Bıle Edemedınız « 


» DALIMIZI KIRANIN ,KÖKÜNÜ SÖKERIZ « 


» YA SUSTURURSUNUZ YADA KAN KUSTURURUZ « 


her ayagına pantolon giyen DELİKANLİ olmaz .. her DELİKANLİ bu dunyanın kahrını cekemeZ!!! «




HacKeD By UzMaN


http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:_vH72MDpZMGiAM:http://img99.echo.cx/img99/1073/image18ux.jpg


K-0wN_x1.q41 -  Kuzux - ScoRPioN -  Diablo - ZeHiR - HyeNa - And TekHacK.Net



» Bızım Gercek Kıldıklarımızı Sız Hayal Bıle Edemedınız « 


» DALIMIZI KIRANIN ,KÖKÜNÜ SÖKERIZ « 


» YA SUSTURURSUNUZ YADA KAN KUSTURURUZ « 


her ayagına pantolon giyen DELİKANLİ olmaz .. her DELİKANLİ bu dunyanın kahrını cekemeZ!!! «</text>
      <sha1>nd7j6dni2jfxfrfadwtdt3a4xyhc9fk</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>20273</id>
      <parentid>20271</parentid>
      <timestamp>2007-04-02T15:06:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Jack Phoenix</username>
        <id>386</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Undo revision 20271 by [[Special:Contributions/88.254.89.104]] ([[User talk:88.254.89.104]])</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="21344">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>1rztm9lgssh65ttw6x7vfc0swdyfpb8</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>20862</id>
      <parentid>20273</parentid>
      <timestamp>2007-05-09T22:14:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ray Chason</username>
        <id>679</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random */ Move the pages, yes, but use a bot</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="21606">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>8goo0usdxzy0iqho96ldpbzg25e8eip</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>21296</id>
      <parentid>20862</parentid>
      <timestamp>2007-06-17T14:22:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>PeterGFin</username>
        <id>635</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Monsters which are also starting races</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="22067">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:22, 17 June 2007 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ezckv9fp1v6zyxl5bj4gb01f9ii6fs7</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>21298</id>
      <parentid>21296</parentid>
      <timestamp>2007-06-17T14:27:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>PeterGFin</username>
        <id>635</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Monsters which are also starting races</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="22067">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>tc3pn16yt02ejnnfz6ywkdxuz4gr068</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>21791</id>
      <parentid>21298</parentid>
      <timestamp>2007-07-27T12:15:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>192.193.245.16</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="22516">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>bdr93587s1qksahw6mr44rmz1oxlqct</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>24176</id>
      <parentid>21791</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-01-06T18:49:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>RegalStar</username>
        <id>684</id>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="22846">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>44s6mr4fck7oemh710gm3gub18obot7</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>25649</id>
      <parentid>24176</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-02-23T06:26:41Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>TBF02</username>
        <id>797</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Modifying NetHack */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="25444">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

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== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

/* START: BETA: Detective */
{	{"Detective", 0}, {
	{"Detective", 0},
	{"Detective", 0},
	{"Detective", 0},
	{"Detective", 0},
	{"Detective", 0},
	{"Detective", 0},
	{"Detective", 0},
	{"Detective", 0},
	{"Detective", 0} },
	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
},
/* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

	case PM_DETECTIVE:
	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

/* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
    MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
/* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

/* END: BETA: Detective */
    MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
	HI_DOMESTIC),
/* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>nz16wfcpg7tfnwcqahr0e2rnp8odcp4</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>25650</id>
      <parentid>25649</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-02-23T06:30:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>TBF02</username>
        <id>797</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Modifying NetHack */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="25493">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

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== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>s1ky83ltfal9j30ids46nynmirsc70p</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>25718</id>
      <parentid>25650</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-02-24T21:26:01Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random */ Warn everyone that I want to run a bot to move the source code pages into the Source: namespace.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="26361">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ou53ponh3joma8xqw2b61x5r9ofo5bt</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>25720</id>
      <parentid>25718</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-02-24T21:55:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Fredil Yupigo</username>
        <id>282</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random */ go for it!</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="26547">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>kmenlyfiqgu6gq7gqgkyo3kdzj40g7m</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>25794</id>
      <parentid>25720</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-02-25T07:14:58Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="26629">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* #nethack on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)</text>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="26662">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>la0drdrxc4wt8bosgk822p8atkn5jaw</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>26326</id>
      <parentid>25829</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-03-02T01:39:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Fredil Yupigo</username>
        <id>282</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random */ question</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="26770">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>9dlapvzt05sb9u4511b196rkymtengj</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>26330</id>
      <parentid>26326</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-03-02T08:30:48Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="26921">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>d7eok67gja0po8vzqjo48xaixu2nesx</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>27182</id>
      <parentid>26330</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-03-04T00:39:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random */ Bot is running, seems to work correctly so far.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="27256">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>nr982h7w1cplkfvyir3147j8ldzfgqf</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>29792</id>
      <parentid>27182</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-03-04T15:57:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random */ need to move Slash'em sources too...</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="27481">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ly00527sgx79n4yblyznzmtm77uljmt</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>29795</id>
      <parentid>29792</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-03-04T16:22:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random */ Comment.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="27598">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>hrv33majraxp01w3gofiqbqk93ima6d</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>29798</id>
      <parentid>29795</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-03-04T16:39:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="27655">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>s4bgcodse11632e18kqgrnc3jeb6m9i</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>29882</id>
      <parentid>29798</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-03-05T15:13:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kernigh</username>
        <id>458</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random */ Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --~~~~</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="27791">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>42ea4g9nplxrncytfn4fbnw5i48bz7z</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>29937</id>
      <parentid>29882</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-03-06T15:19:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Q: Weapon damages and min-max values, maybe use template</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="28229">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>nx6gg4ll8xrar0jeeq6ddwoq0w24018</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>30717</id>
      <parentid>29937</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-03-20T04:15:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Floatingeye</username>
        <id>272</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="29964">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>02r7imh3e5lljxxmy0de6wplhxkw7ol</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>30721</id>
      <parentid>30717</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-03-20T05:42:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Mniot</username>
        <id>559</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? */   pointers to templates &amp; source code</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="30667">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>rmxdfhbff4h0it12oyws0n6833vsdr1</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>31217</id>
      <parentid>30721</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-04-10T15:43:13Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Killian</username>
        <id>467</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>what happened to the theme?</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="30813">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>1h9zzovk4uf7nbtj3tyvsq97ad4123n</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>31218</id>
      <parentid>31217</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-04-10T16:52:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Theme change */ blame [[User:Kirkburn]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="30960">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>0cu661uihoxecv4kyh8pcrqib2a0ene</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>31220</id>
      <parentid>31218</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-04-10T18:00:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Theme change */ how to complain</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="31097">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>o3tbx1eocfbuqq5737gvlpb0t6wq018</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>31221</id>
      <parentid>31220</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-04-10T18:20:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ray Chason</username>
        <id>679</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Theme change */ How to choose a different skin</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="31606">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>75aje8tywk1zrvh0t25z1dy8x5x2616</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>31223</id>
      <parentid>31221</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-04-10T18:28:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kirkburn</username>
        <id>468</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Theme change */ +</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="31740">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>6727x38x34llvyq373ukqf6mwqvc89p</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>31226</id>
      <parentid>31223</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-04-10T20:55:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Eidolos</username>
        <id>239</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Theme change */ Anyone want Monaco back?</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="31936">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>n6pttwbk4j4h57btgetf3bzzzi865em</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>31227</id>
      <parentid>31226</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-04-10T21:46:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ray Chason</username>
        <id>679</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Theme change */ It's back the way it was before</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="32643">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>cysf8y9ly05gkqmvqmdi6u8c07q0u4z</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>31243</id>
      <parentid>31227</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-04-11T17:19:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kirkburn</username>
        <id>468</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Theme change */ +</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="33026">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>tp9v7rtklki62gjnwrq7v1tuxm0avwc</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>31694</id>
      <parentid>31243</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-05-07T19:34:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>NerdLord</username>
        <id>584</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Modifying NetHack */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="33222">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull wip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>hcl0velwbw9coydy0jqnuodrno4vk8f</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>31695</id>
      <parentid>31694</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-05-07T19:35:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>NerdLord</username>
        <id>584</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Modifying NetHack */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="33223">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>bv6kykseinvfdjtfqt1gqiefrmqj6n7</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>31699</id>
      <parentid>31695</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-05-07T22:17:44Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ray Chason</username>
        <id>679</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Modifying NetHack */ Savescumming is frowned upon</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="33482">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>0zz00k07hlazm7v4be5viwn0jjyugrs</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>32416</id>
      <parentid>31699</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-05-29T03:16:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>220.255.7.242</ip>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="33602">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>li0o7wwbwcmsp2qnyes3vabzna15syo</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>32646</id>
      <parentid>32416</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-06-07T15:46:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Rogerb-on-NAO</username>
        <id>701</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* The problem with MR */  Done!</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="33826">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ljtrfybmgwmsjprvrfeev5uqwmumnsh</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>32647</id>
      <parentid>32646</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-06-07T16:04:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Rogerb-on-NAO</username>
        <id>701</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Engraving and Elbereth */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="35610">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>nu3o9ytwhrwmeu1okx3c5nex5l7nf5v</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>33149</id>
      <parentid>32647</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-06-16T23:10:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Rogerb-on-NAO</username>
        <id>701</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Disambiguation Template:for2 */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="36024">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>jzcauoc36nd8z3ovf8yd8ufkzfz1cb2</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>33218</id>
      <parentid>33149</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-06-18T22:41:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Rogerb-on-NAO</username>
        <id>701</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Monsters which are also starting races */  We need to disambiguate!</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="38021">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>osbbwb6mk97v51ey3mf6ezqnf78ngz0</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>33219</id>
      <parentid>33218</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-06-18T22:50:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Rogerb-on-NAO</username>
        <id>701</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Long reply above */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="38285">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>gy4q1go5ulqj7qmhrbsce7k7g8q4g6m</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>33691</id>
      <parentid>33219</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-07-10T22:53:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Rogerb-on-NAO</username>
        <id>701</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Engraving and Elbereth */  I'll just go ahead then.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="38510">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>abnedwv4pitm61903mck1cs1emrq6wc</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>33742</id>
      <parentid>33691</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-07-13T15:32:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>84.121.141.24</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Interhack */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="38687">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001.</text>
      <sha1>l8w9hdr2iq1uvchpww00fgssvtntihw</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>33746</id>
      <parentid>33742</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-07-13T19:24:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Rogerb-on-NAO</username>
        <id>701</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Interhack */ Probably. Why don't you add it?</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="38925">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>8uy8ndir3anf31qty5objr7lmmcqy7o</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>34709</id>
      <parentid>33746</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-08-09T01:07:53Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Shijun</username>
        <id>735</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? */ templates are tricky</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="39406">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>oaldlwjmrfre6qr0fuius7ek3hnfie4</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>34710</id>
      <parentid>34709</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-08-09T01:45:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Shijun</username>
        <id>735</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? */ the dice template is really cool</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="39619">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== New javascript-based monster template ==

As was discussed a while ago, I've created a new template, currently at {{tl|test}}, which combines the short and long form of the monster infoboxes, toggling between them with some javascript at [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]]. You can see it in action on [[killer bee]], if you make sure to clear your cache first. I've tested it on Firefox, Opera and Konqueror, but it doesn't appear to work on IE6 at the moment. Can someone else confirm that? I think the problem is with the following code:

&lt;pre&gt;
if (window.addEventListener)
window.addEventListener("load", createNavigationBarToggleButton, false)
else if (window.attachEvent)
window.attachEvent("onload", createNavigationBarToggleButton)
else if (document.getElementById)
window.LoadOff=createNavigationBarToggleButton;
&lt;/pre&gt;

but I have no idea what it is. Help! I'm not a programmer! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 23:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

: It is code to try to tell the createNavigationBarToggleButton function to run after the document loads (so that document.getElementById can find everything). The code ''did'' work when I found a copy of IE6 to test it on, but that was after you put in the missing semicolons. Meanwhile, I decided to replace that code with "addOnloadHook( createNavigationBarToggleButton );" which calls an addOnloadHook function from http://nethack.wikia.com/skins3/common/wikibits.js?1, which loads before [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]] does. By using addOnloadHook, our code runs before some of MediaWiki's own code, so there is less delay before the "Show detail" link shows up. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:: Thanks, this is a much tidier solution. But there are still two or three people in #nethack who can't see the "Show details" link, even on almost identical setups to mine (Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu). Their cache was cleared. I've tested it successfully on Firefox, IE6, Opera and Konqueror, on Kubuntu and Windows. Any ideas what could be going wrong? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::: Strangely, [[killer bee]] now works beautifully for me (I'm one of the Firefox 1.5.0.5 on Kubuntu guys). None of the pages have been edited since it was last broken, and I haven't done anything special, so I have no clue why it suddenly started working, or indeed, why it was broken in the first place. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 17:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

:::: I observed the same situation on Firefox 1.5.something on same computer as IE6. I think that it might have went away when I logged in with Firefox (as I already was logged in with IE). I heard once that Wikia might use a server-side cache for anonymous users (not for logged-in users who have their name on every page), a setup that might be like one at Wikimedia. Possibly that caused it. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

::::Fascinating... I will test on a few more setups and ask around for results, but assuming it works as plans, what do you all think about replacing {{tl|monster}} with {{tl|test}}? I deliberately made the rolled-up version very very brief. I replaced '''Base level''' with '''Difficulty''', which I now understand to be a good general summary of the monster's... difficulty ([http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/aef30c69c11fd963 see RGRN])! The game uses it to determine which monsters to generate for a given level. 

::::Finally, I made the full table display by default, for when JS is not working/available. Does anybody notice a flicker when the page is first loaded, or will that JS always execute before the page is rendered for the first time? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::There's no noticeable flicker here, and even if there was I wouldn't mind. I think resistances conveyed by eating should be in the hidden-details table as well; it's sufficiently useful information. (Also we should give percentages on how often each resistance is conveyed by that monster, but that's neither here nor there). --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 19:11, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::I've tested [[Killer bee]] in eLinks, my other browser of choice (a member of the lynx family, no JS support).  I notice that both the small and large tables are visible.  Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?  I've also tested in JS-disabled Firefox 1.0, and the show/hide link becomes an empty table row.  This actually makes it look nicer - a visual separator between need-to-know and nice-to know. --[[User:Stefanor|Stefanor]] 00:35, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

:::::: ''Would it be practical to only output the small table using JS?'' That's what it does; a browser without JS will inevitably see both tables, unless it also supports CSS. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
=== Addendum ===
Addendum: Oops, I've now realised that the template won't work when more than one copy of it is on a page, which we should probably have on pages like [[Mummy]]. I'll have a think about this later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 01:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

:Okaaay, I think I have it working. Except I'm running into the same cache problem, so I'm going to wait and see if it magically starts working later. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::Try logging out and then back to Wikia. That should clear the cache. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 15:17, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

::: &lt;s&gt;''No, it is not the cache.'' It does not work in Firefox nor Opera on my Mac. I have now moved to my OpenBSD box (so I can use Konqueror's JavaScript debugger). So far, the createShowHideButtons function seems to be broken; calling it from a debugger acts as if the function does not exist. I am still investigating if we have a syntax problem. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt; Well, the debugger is giving me old code. It turns out that [http://nethack.wikia.com/index.php?title=-&amp;action=raw&amp;smaxage=0&amp;gen=js] gives me old code even if I reload it. So there is a cache, but not the ''same'' cache. This &lt;s&gt;is&lt;/s&gt; might be MediaWiki's internal cache (the one that we reset with action=purge, but I have no way to purge this one), not the anonymous-users cache. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 17:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC) ''Update: since I really have no idea what the problem is, I am waiting for help in #wikia on Freenode. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 20:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)''

:::: Whatever problem there was seems to have cleared up now. Does the template not work for anybody? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===CSS===

There is also the matter of the new code requiring more divs. I haven't yet discovered a way to make these shrink-wrap to the point of invisibility, so that's why there's an extra grey border. Could somebody please fiddle with the template ({{tl|test}}) until the border looks good? :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

===Final comments===

I have made several improvements. Here's an example of the final result:

{{monster
 |name=killer bee
 |symbol={{yellow|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Killer bee.png]]
 |difficulty=5
 |level=1
 |experience=19
 |speed=18
 |AC=-1
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Rare, appears in large groups
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Sting 1d3 [[poison]]ous
 |weight=1
 |nutr=5
 |size=Tiny
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison (30%)
 |attributes=A killer bee:
* is poisonous
* can fly
* is an animal
* has no hands
* is female
}}

If there are no complaints, I will replace the {{tl|monster}} template soon. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 13:38, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: I don't think the "A killer bee:" line of the attributes is at all necessary. Otherwise, looks pretty good on this end, good work! --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 16:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

: Once the new monster template goes live, I'll see what I can do about automatically uploading the rest of the monster species with [[User:Eidobot]]. --[[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 21:51, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

:: It's at {{tl|monster}} now. I suggest the line "A killer bee:" is included to make the lines in the attributes box complete sentences. And yes, an automated upload would be nice! --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

==Google Analytics==

(Wikihack has been a bit flaky for the last few days. The Wikia admins are aware of it. I'm sure they're doing something about it.)

I sent some Google Analytics javascript code to [http://wikia.com/wiki/User:Jasonr User:Jasonr]; hopefully he'll put it in the right place soon and we'll have a better idea of which pages people actually read. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

:*coff* The trouble with Google Analytics is that it runs in scripts on the pages that use it, and they're linked directly from Google's domain.  Anyone using a script blocker probably blocks it - and anyone who is worried about security and uses Firefox will probably have NoScript.  :[  (addendum by Michael Martin, unregistered reader; 9:10, 13 October 2006)

::Perhaps, but it's better than nothing. Although Wikia are being reticent about GA, so I suspect they don't want us to see the stats anyway. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

== Item drops? ==

I'm not sure what article or template would fit this best, but I think it'd be good if we had a list of which monsters tend to carry/drop which items. (For instance, nymphs often carry [[mirror]]s and a [[potion of object detection]]; gnomes carry an [[aklys]], etc.) If this already exists, I think it should be consolidated somewhere. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 00:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: I do not know if wehave such an article yet, but one can use the m_initinv function at [[makemon.c#line487]] as a reference. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:28, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

: The death-dropped item is random, but there is a spoiler [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/msg/e34120648c374754 here] listing which items monsters can start with. It would make a nice wiki article, but you might want to contact Boudewijn before copying it wholesale (it doesn't carry a copyright notice). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 12:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

::Never knew that existed, thanks. (I wasn't planning to include deathdrops in the list). I'd imagine the source code would be a decent reference, but if needed we could contact him. [[User:Lotte|Lotte]] 17:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

== Instructional ttyrecs == 
ala Eidolos'?  Castle with instrument, Kaen, maybe a newb one,... ideas? {{unsigned|Stumbly|25 September 2006}}

:What about instructional ttyrecs? I don't think those can be uploaded to this wiki, if that's what you are asking. But creating an article with a list of those and links to them may be a good idea, although I don't know where to find them in the first place... Maybe just by searching the r.g.r.n?   --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 13:36, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Multiple entities on one page ==

We currently don't have any guidelines for when multiple entities should be documented in a single wiki article. For example, [[mithril-coat]] contains both elven and dwarvish varieties; [[Dragon]] contains all dragons; [[mimic]] contains all mimics; and there may be more. This can be good infodesign, but I suggest:

# Two entities (weapon, tool, monster, ...) should only be on the same page if there is useful commentary that spans them both.
# To emphasise that the two entities are in fact separate game objects:
#* each should have its own &lt;nowiki&gt;==section==&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and 
#* each should have a dedicated infobox ({{tl|weapon}}, {{tl|tool}}, {{tl|monster}}, ...).

[[The Banes]] fails the first point. I suggest it is broken up and redirected to [[bane]], a disambiguation page.

[[Dragon]] will need 9 sections and 9 infoboxes to comply with the second point (I think [[baby dragon]]s are sufficiently different to need a separate page); putting "see article" under Attacks really defeats the point of an infobox.

Any objections or comments before I add this advice to the [[Wikihack:Style guide|style guide]]? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 17:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

:The reason [[Dragon]] is set up as it is is because almost all of the information in the infobox is '''completely identical''' between the different types of dragon.  We do not need nine infoboxes containing largely the same information - it is horribly redundant.  I am thinking separate infoboxes should only be used if there are substantial differences between entities (as with the [[mimic]]s, [[Keystone Kop]]s, the [[Yendorian Army]], etc. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 18:24, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

::Sure it's redundant, but Wikihack is a massively redundant enterprise, all for the sake of usability. Firstly, when people look up info on a monster, they ''could'' read the current dragon template and ignore the non-relevant bits, or they ''could'' dig through mon1-343.txt, but I think the very purpose of an infobox is to document exactly one thing. Secondly, I don't think dragons really are similar enough to justify making an exception to the normal use of infoboxes: there are three fields in the current box saying "see article", and of course there's no monster with the name "dragon". It gets worse when the attributes list is added (yellow and green dragons are acidic and poisonous, respectively and uniquely). --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 22:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Any further comments on this from anyone? I will leave [[Dragon]] alone for now if it's a major objection, SGrunt. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 11:58, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

== Logical colour templates ==

In the spirit of [[Template:Black]] and &lt;code&gt;CLR_BLACK&lt;/code&gt;, I'm tempted to create a set of colour templates corresponding to &lt;code&gt;HI_LEATHER&lt;/code&gt;, &lt;code&gt;HI_METAL&lt;/code&gt; etc. from [[color.h]]. This would make transcribing infoboxes from source easier, and would insulate us from potential changes. Not sure whether I'd call them "leather color" or "HI_LEATHER", though. Any thoughts? --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 02:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:I see no reason not to use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{leather}}, {{silver}}, {{organic}}, {{metal}}, etc.&lt;/nowiki&gt;. They won't interfere with similarly titled pages in the article namespace, and this seems as good a use for them as any. Also, has any object ever changed colour? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 14:03, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
:Ah, but I see now that you've already done it :-) --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

==Another tweak to the monster template==

{{test
 |name=giant beetle
 |symbol={{darkgray|a}}
 |tile=[[Image:Giant beetle.png]]
 |difficulty=6
 |level=5
 |experience=56
 |speed=6
 |AC=4
 |MR=0
 |align=0
 |frequency=Uncommon
 |genocidable=Yes
 |attacks=Bite 3d6
 |weight=10
 |nutr=10
 |size=Large
 |resistances=Poison
 |resistances conveyed=Poison
}}

I put the monster's name on the top row for an even more compact table, as originally envisaged by [[User:PraetorFenix|PraetorFenix]]. Any reason I shouldn't merge this into the {{tl|monster}} template? --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 15:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
*I would support this - it gives a proper title to the monster box. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

== Internal names for article titles ==

I have moved several articles ([[Bell of Opening]], [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], [[Dark One]], etc.) from titles prefixed with '''The''' to those without to match the internal names specified for those entities.  My justifications for this are as follows:

# Pages generated with the assistance of tools (e.g. [[Monster]]) will point at the internal name and therefore a large number of links will point at the article with the internal title.
# As it stands, the majority of links pointing to the articles in question already point to the internal title (possibly as a consequence of the above).

If there is any rationale for preficing the articles with the unnecessary "The", please state it here. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 19:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

:Agreed. Quest artifacts are the exception - they are prefixed with The in [[artilist.h]]. --[[User:Jayt|Jayt]] 21:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::Hence why I've left them where they are. -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 01:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Extra linebreaks in infobox templates ==

I noticed there was a problem with some of the [[:Category:Infobox templates|infobox templates]]: if you placed them in their own paragraph, before the first paragraph of the article, there was too much vertical space before the text itself. Turns out this was caused by having a linebreak between the end of the template body and the &lt;code&gt;&amp;lt;noinclude&amp;gt;&lt;/code&gt; tag. Removing the linebreak in the template solved the problem, so it's no longer necessary to put the template-include in the same paragraph as the article introduction (which is what I've had to do recently). --[[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

== Linking to Wikipedia ==

I added links to Wikipedia articles [[wikipedia:K-ration|K-ration]] and [[wikipedia:C-ration|C-ration]] into our own [[K-ration]] and [[C-ration]] articles. I only did this because it isn't clear, what these things are actually supposed to be, and Wikipedia has some interesting background on them. The reason I am posting to Community Portal now is to prevent anyone from thinking that hey, it might be a good idea to add that template to ''all'' articles. If it isn't clear yet, I am strongly against adding {{tl|wikipedia}} to all articles. Everyone knows, for example, what a [[dog]], a [[tin opener]] or an [[apple]] is like. That is, I think the Wikipedia-link template should be used sparingly. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
*Agreed.  The {{tl|wikipedia}} template should only be used when it's not at all clear what something is, such as in the case of some of the demons, or perhaps to provide background on famous monster appearing in the game as a unique (such as [[Ashikaga Takauji]]). -- [[User:SGrunt|SGrunt]] 00:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
*(The interwiki prefix to Wikipedia is "wikipedia:" &amp;ndash; "w:" points to [[w:Wikia|Central Wikia]]. I fixed the two links above. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 04:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC))

== Incomplete ==

A lot of monsters are missing from the Wikihack database.  I was wondering if anyone could fix this problem.  I'd also love to know what wizard lock does. {{unsigned|Pokemonman|9 December 2006}}

: Concerning [[wizard lock]], I just now gave to it a wiki article. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 05:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

== Random page function ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, so feel free to move it if its not.  It might be nice to stop the random page function from including source code... there's so much source code that more often than not you end up reading some random file from some random revision of the game, which most people using the "Random page" link aren't really intending to see.  Just my thoughts on it.  -- [[User:Intx13|Intx13]] 20:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:As far as I know, the only simple way to accomplish this would be to move it to a different namespace (like the User: and Wikihack: namespaces - call it "Source:"?). [[User:64.218.194.120|64.218.194.120]] 15:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>43riki9p26wb6z9lq8pwflvaqmvxtkx</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>34714</id>
      <parentid>34710</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-08-09T20:03:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Shijun</username>
        <id>735</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>moved older topics to [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|Archive3]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="20375">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>fy14ab1ad2vm356k6nlalifsb55lo25</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>34716</id>
      <parentid>34714</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-08-09T20:31:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Shijun</username>
        <id>735</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Cultural references */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="20926">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members.

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other ''[[NetHack]]'' communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

__TOC__

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ar72avv21hxsfhlka5qa9faecphd70t</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>34721</id>
      <parentid>34716</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-08-09T21:48:41Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Shijun</username>
        <id>735</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>added info about the "Ask an expert" page</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="21054">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is about [[NetHack]], please discuss it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>jwp55wr5j0yqpop81vu34iizkrq2y25</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>34722</id>
      <parentid>34721</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-08-09T21:51:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
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        <id>735</id>
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      <minor/>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="21079">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with WikiHack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consdier discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>il4539bouiqf3z0gbusfe4gfwfd4hts</sha1>
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      <id>34723</id>
      <parentid>34722</parentid>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Shijun</username>
        <id>735</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>fixed typo</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="21079">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>27gggofdidc7w7082ptp7gpnsrumfk3</sha1>
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      <id>34730</id>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Shijun</username>
        <id>735</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Theme change */ provide link to [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="21233">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>t3msqd8irdto5wxjibh1o9yl8eq7n90</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>34744</id>
      <parentid>34730</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-08-10T22:51:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Shijun</username>
        <id>735</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>added note about adding new sections</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="21260">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>iof383zkpjhxnyh4n5gozdtmpscev2j</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>35284</id>
      <parentid>34744</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-09-27T23:22:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Fredil Yupigo</username>
        <id>282</id>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="21476">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ok1g9atlyno88ye1cugfiil19mrbpql</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>35292</id>
      <parentid>35284</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-09-28T17:46:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ray Chason</username>
        <id>679</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Article Number Count */ Some idle speculation</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="22077">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>o69sj2iq4ttjsxchn04w3ztv8dmaqkl</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>35455</id>
      <parentid>35292</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-10-10T21:26:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Fredil Yupigo</username>
        <id>282</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Addicted to Wikihack? */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="22315">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>51i4vaofsg1vyy98j7tynnk5sgjcu04</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>35682</id>
      <parentid>35455</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-10-21T08:11:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>118.67.12.92</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Interhack */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="23723">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>frxv8gzllah8wttr0ik13sfk3capunf</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>36085</id>
      <parentid>35682</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-10-30T21:36:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>83.226.116.98</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Addicted to Wikihack? */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="23778">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]</text>
      <sha1>lnqdhtmeh8cdzjnxekkr9w1vaht31ak</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>36273</id>
      <parentid>36085</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-11-13T00:09:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Asking for help with another wiki (Civ4)</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="24797">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>js7hok5tmr1ucz2kdnbz1oxvk2opxom</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>36337</id>
      <parentid>36273</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-11-17T16:41:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Modifying wikia default templates */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="25103">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>trsi1fv7p3yig1i701d6iyccayiuh07</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>37155</id>
      <parentid>36337</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-12-30T00:29:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kalon</username>
        <id>447</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>How do we handle non-canon variants?</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="25791">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>62fobvjg0at2m24xo9x9t38i5mbuug1</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>37156</id>
      <parentid>37155</parentid>
      <timestamp>2008-12-30T01:39:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Handling variants */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="26308">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ebax45lz2z384qdx99c4bueguyczr2c</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>37862</id>
      <parentid>37156</parentid>
      <timestamp>2009-02-12T20:55:53Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Wikia Spotlight</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="28147">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>3be4l4dbwl3txz06eee8t74c206bmmu</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>37864</id>
      <parentid>37862</parentid>
      <timestamp>2009-02-12T21:48:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Shijun</username>
        <id>735</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Wikia Spotlight */ comments</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="28582">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>2xlyvpoew8f5rnt2zggh86o1qojbblu</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>38034</id>
      <parentid>37864</parentid>
      <timestamp>2009-02-21T11:49:42Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Wikia Spotlight */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="28910">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>1r2e4mhbfoze29ebgo4dqyzbz7e6gg3</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>38125</id>
      <parentid>38034</parentid>
      <timestamp>2009-02-27T08:00:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Recent changes patrol */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="29499">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>f6tobnw3togt8asn417vlpnwnt6q7p6</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>38925</id>
      <parentid>38125</parentid>
      <timestamp>2009-04-08T09:52:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Wikia Spotlight */ [[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="29814">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>jeyal6gznxg4qjl0j3vvkegvzfb86rv</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>39008</id>
      <parentid>38925</parentid>
      <timestamp>2009-04-15T09:15:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Bhaak</username>
        <id>91</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Variant specific information */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="30591">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into WikiHack. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>d57bw9jf8u5959gg1rqism3n3i2gu5x</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>39020</id>
      <parentid>39008</parentid>
      <timestamp>2009-04-15T22:57:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kalon</username>
        <id>447</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Variant specific information */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="31217">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into WikiHack. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>lk5ieou46i80utzqfuuqztebk2ridbh</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>39028</id>
      <parentid>39020</parentid>
      <timestamp>2009-04-16T08:11:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Variant specific information */ yeah, what Kalon just said.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="32368">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into WikiHack. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>nh6vtlsxs8iy3y6rsben42chkl0mrph</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>39317</id>
      <parentid>39028</parentid>
      <timestamp>2009-04-24T17:08:48Z</timestamp>
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      <comment>/* NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random */ Opinions on this?</comment>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="32780">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into WikiHack. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>9qtxx6ygskzxczc7enah21q4qy70vei</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>39332</id>
      <parentid>39317</parentid>
      <timestamp>2009-04-25T12:52:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Killian</username>
        <id>467</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random */ I concur</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="33037">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into WikiHack. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>5tb1j2k3f0p8moktmf6ggmgui2rxxqz</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>39394</id>
      <parentid>39332</parentid>
      <timestamp>2009-04-30T06:54:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random */ Fixed.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="33167">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into WikiHack. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>f4gu22zm5p0wkix6we3cbeye15rhzq9</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>39862</id>
      <parentid>39394</parentid>
      <timestamp>2009-05-20T00:25:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>66.30.202.87</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Is NetHack Alive? */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="33400">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into WikiHack. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting WikiHack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead?</text>
      <sha1>7f9ttbcveavwl6s4y4m9jsabnfn9ukk</sha1>
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    <revision>
      <id>39867</id>
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      <comment>/* Is NetHack Alive? */</comment>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="33804">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into WikiHack. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting WikiHack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead?

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on Wikihack. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>aq6ufnv0rveu2atvqvi095j7i5g2ls3</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>39868</id>
      <parentid>39867</parentid>
      <timestamp>2009-05-20T06:10:01Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Shijun</username>
        <id>735</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Is NetHack Alive? */ noted unsigned comment</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="33844">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into WikiHack. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting WikiHack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on Wikihack. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>0njkcv2xqvmfxuvne70ucfhxxga7264</sha1>
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      <id>39874</id>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="34695">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into WikiHack. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting WikiHack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on Wikihack. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>jd4cw9rrg4vbgwdrp0njojqopkcax90</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>39879</id>
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      <model>wikitext</model>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="34942">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into WikiHack. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting WikiHack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on Wikihack. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''developement'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superceded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>b8yo7vcjou2th1j3179suaox9l21ozs</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="35118">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into WikiHack. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting WikiHack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on Wikihack. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''developement'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superceded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —13:32, 20 May 2009 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>iw0g8w53q91kleo5mpecpuzavktjp0f</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>39882</id>
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      <timestamp>2009-05-20T13:33:10Z</timestamp>
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      <comment>/* Is NetHack Alive? */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="35139">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into WikiHack. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting WikiHack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on Wikihack. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''developement'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superceded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:32, 20 May 2009 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>j4q4upj6efg5cnsydi6xqrw3jugpp2f</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>39883</id>
      <parentid>39882</parentid>
      <timestamp>2009-05-20T13:35:06Z</timestamp>
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      <model>wikitext</model>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="35139">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into WikiHack. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting WikiHack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on Wikihack. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''developement'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superceded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)</text>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="35711">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into WikiHack. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting WikiHack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on Wikihack. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''developement'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superceded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined WikiHack and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out WikiHack's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>dvkt16gfhyvyulwyhlsxn3p1ty566i5</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>39891</id>
      <parentid>39888</parentid>
      <timestamp>2009-05-20T15:06:36Z</timestamp>
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      <comment>/* Is NetHack Alive? */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="35879">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into WikiHack. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting WikiHack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on Wikihack. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''developement'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superceded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined WikiHack and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out WikiHack's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>i90so19o39dt0zfqo3z2gs5w2ngve6u</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>39892</id>
      <parentid>39891</parentid>
      <timestamp>2009-05-20T15:08:32Z</timestamp>
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      <comment>/* Is NetHack Alive? */ sigh, my spelling</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="35878">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into WikiHack. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting WikiHack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on Wikihack. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined WikiHack and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out WikiHack's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>5csvnqycssm4zb9zqzuxoh0quvljs9b</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>39893</id>
      <parentid>39892</parentid>
      <timestamp>2009-05-20T15:14:41Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>propose Slashem namespace</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="36305">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into WikiHack. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting WikiHack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on Wikihack. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined WikiHack and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out WikiHack's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>2pz4gtd4p9ear192v4dncjrle1kfxpw</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>39894</id>
      <parentid>39893</parentid>
      <timestamp>2009-05-20T17:00:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>DemonDoll</username>
        <id>197</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Slashem Namespace */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="36751">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into WikiHack. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting WikiHack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on Wikihack. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined WikiHack and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out WikiHack's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them.</text>
      <sha1>o1qa1kv4q3e5x8z2l3y0osm0mlptw7j</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>39895</id>
      <parentid>39894</parentid>
      <timestamp>2009-05-20T17:03:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>DemonDoll</username>
        <id>197</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Slashem Namespace */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="36913">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into WikiHack. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting WikiHack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on Wikihack. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined WikiHack and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out WikiHack's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>pa9xkb7aatfcpkdj2dqtbbzru0rf9ov</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>43564</id>
      <parentid>39895</parentid>
      <timestamp>2009-09-19T11:09:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>114.129.168.15</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Interhack */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="35788">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into WikiHack. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting WikiHack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on Wikihack. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined WikiHack and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out WikiHack's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>9cgxrz203irzbjic7xhwjd6wfukl14r</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>43572</id>
      <parentid>43564</parentid>
      <timestamp>2009-09-19T21:16:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Shijun</username>
        <id>735</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>there's no reason to delete older comments</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="37096">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into WikiHack. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting WikiHack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on Wikihack. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined WikiHack and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out WikiHack's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>k3vn59lk9i61buotmc7r2b0jhkpugkz</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>45390</id>
      <parentid>43572</parentid>
      <timestamp>2009-12-31T03:55:41Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
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      <comment>/* Template for Encyclopedia */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="37812">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into WikiHack. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting WikiHack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on Wikihack. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined WikiHack and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out WikiHack's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>0lmvx0avrqumh602oxqe5erjaywmmna</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>45416</id>
      <parentid>45390</parentid>
      <timestamp>2009-12-31T06:55:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Shijun</username>
        <id>735</id>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="38251">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into WikiHack. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting WikiHack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on Wikihack. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined WikiHack and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out WikiHack's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:I had a somewhat similar idea, except the template would hold the content in addition to the formatting (which is a bit ambitious, I have to admit, and why I never got around to making the template). A formatting template is a better idea and easier to implement. I should be able to make it in the next few days or so. Though may I ask for a shorter name such as "Encyclopedia"? —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>2m384r0gzotev6hijn1963k2g3drsad</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>45424</id>
      <parentid>45416</parentid>
      <timestamp>2009-12-31T13:10:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Template for Encyclopedia */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="38365">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into WikiHack. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting WikiHack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on Wikihack. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined WikiHack and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out WikiHack's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:I had a somewhat similar idea, except the template would hold the content in addition to the formatting (which is a bit ambitious, I have to admit, and why I never got around to making the template). A formatting template is a better idea and easier to implement. I should be able to make it in the next few days or so. Though may I ask for a shorter name such as "Encyclopedia"? —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:: I like self-documenting names. How about FormatEncyclopedia? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:10, December 31, 2009 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>qqbd2zbwm5azcata6xgk88be8lv4nqc</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>45425</id>
      <parentid>45424</parentid>
      <timestamp>2009-12-31T13:12:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Template for Encyclopedia */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="38458">{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into WikiHack. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting WikiHack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on Wikihack. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined WikiHack and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out WikiHack's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:I had a somewhat similar idea, except the template would hold the content in addition to the formatting (which is a bit ambitious, I have to admit, and why I never got around to making the template). A formatting template is a better idea and easier to implement. I should be able to make it in the next few days or so. Though may I ask for a shorter name such as "Encyclopedia"? —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:: I like self-documenting names. How about EncyclopediaFormat? On a second thought, a newbie is probably smart enough to figure out what Encyclopedia does. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>hr36jdamfrca97pi52qgjwll39uvro9</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>46212</id>
      <parentid>45425</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-01-26T13:41:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Zapwire</username>
        <id>917</id>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="38476">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into WikiHack. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting WikiHack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on Wikihack. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined WikiHack and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out WikiHack's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:I had a somewhat similar idea, except the template would hold the content in addition to the formatting (which is a bit ambitious, I have to admit, and why I never got around to making the template). A formatting template is a better idea and easier to implement. I should be able to make it in the next few days or so. Though may I ask for a shorter name such as "Encyclopedia"? —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:: I like self-documenting names. How about EncyclopediaFormat? On a second thought, a newbie is probably smart enough to figure out what Encyclopedia does. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>gpbs1ibjh6bzphrqp7h9go7s8ifgnfv</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>46213</id>
      <parentid>46212</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-01-26T13:43:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Zapwire</username>
        <id>917</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New skin */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="38840">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into WikiHack. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting WikiHack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on Wikihack. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined WikiHack and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out WikiHack's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:I had a somewhat similar idea, except the template would hold the content in addition to the formatting (which is a bit ambitious, I have to admit, and why I never got around to making the template). A formatting template is a better idea and easier to implement. I should be able to make it in the next few days or so. Though may I ask for a shorter name such as "Encyclopedia"? —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:: I like self-documenting names. How about EncyclopediaFormat? On a second thought, a newbie is probably smart enough to figure out what Encyclopedia does. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

== New skin ==

I've used the monaco skin to create a Wikihack styled skin - just copy and paste [[User:Zapwire/monaco.css]] to [[special:MyPage/monaco.css]], clear cache, enjoy. Suggestions are welcome. --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 13:43, January 26, 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>8vhlsz66f07awzizq53u5jy82z9xb8h</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>46352</id>
      <parentid>46213</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-02-01T16:47:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Zapwire</username>
        <id>917</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Monster pronunciation */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="39130">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into WikiHack. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting WikiHack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on Wikihack. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined WikiHack and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out WikiHack's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:I had a somewhat similar idea, except the template would hold the content in addition to the formatting (which is a bit ambitious, I have to admit, and why I never got around to making the template). A formatting template is a better idea and easier to implement. I should be able to make it in the next few days or so. Though may I ask for a shorter name such as "Encyclopedia"? —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:: I like self-documenting names. How about EncyclopediaFormat? On a second thought, a newbie is probably smart enough to figure out what Encyclopedia does. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

== New skin ==

I've used the monaco skin to create a Wikihack styled skin - just copy and paste [[User:Zapwire/monaco.css]] to [[special:MyPage/monaco.css]], clear cache, enjoy. Suggestions are welcome. --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 13:43, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

== Monster pronunciation ==

Some people have difficultly saying monster names. Maybe we could include pronunciations for things? --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 16:47, February 1, 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>g50v1bulosjpn79lwp345ouf9zjych1</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>46961</id>
      <parentid>46352</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-02-28T17:27:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Monster pronunciation */ what do you have in mind?</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="39352">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into WikiHack. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting WikiHack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on Wikihack. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined WikiHack and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out WikiHack's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:I had a somewhat similar idea, except the template would hold the content in addition to the formatting (which is a bit ambitious, I have to admit, and why I never got around to making the template). A formatting template is a better idea and easier to implement. I should be able to make it in the next few days or so. Though may I ask for a shorter name such as "Encyclopedia"? —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:: I like self-documenting names. How about EncyclopediaFormat? On a second thought, a newbie is probably smart enough to figure out what Encyclopedia does. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

== New skin ==

I've used the monaco skin to create a Wikihack styled skin - just copy and paste [[User:Zapwire/monaco.css]] to [[special:MyPage/monaco.css]], clear cache, enjoy. Suggestions are welcome. --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 13:43, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

== Monster pronunciation ==

Some people have difficultly saying monster names. Maybe we could include pronunciations for things? --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 16:47, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

: What exactly do you have in mind? .mp3 files spoken by the DevTeam? By native speakers? A transcription in [[wikipedia:IPA|IPA]] alphabet? (Who understands IPA anyway?) -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:27, February 28, 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>5zu1482yn1s3e6wxpwovuf15nlcp0jg</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53302</id>
      <parentid>46961</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-10-28T22:20:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="43178">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into WikiHack. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting WikiHack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on Wikihack. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined WikiHack and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out WikiHack's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:I had a somewhat similar idea, except the template would hold the content in addition to the formatting (which is a bit ambitious, I have to admit, and why I never got around to making the template). A formatting template is a better idea and easier to implement. I should be able to make it in the next few days or so. Though may I ask for a shorter name such as "Encyclopedia"? —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:: I like self-documenting names. How about EncyclopediaFormat? On a second thought, a newbie is probably smart enough to figure out what Encyclopedia does. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

== New skin ==

I've used the monaco skin to create a Wikihack styled skin - just copy and paste [[User:Zapwire/monaco.css]] to [[special:MyPage/monaco.css]], clear cache, enjoy. Suggestions are welcome. --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 13:43, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

== Monster pronunciation ==

Some people have difficultly saying monster names. Maybe we could include pronunciations for things? --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 16:47, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

: What exactly do you have in mind? .mp3 files spoken by the DevTeam? By native speakers? A transcription in [[wikipedia:IPA|IPA]] alphabet? (Who understands IPA anyway?) -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:27, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

== New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks ==

===Summary of the problems===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#Important_changes_with_the_new_skin WoWWiki discusses problems] we alse have. Especially bad is the wasted screen space. Wiki functionality navigation and social-network-ization come second.

===What we can't do===
From the [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Important_Updates_on_Wikia%E2%80%99s_New_Look staff blog]:

:'' In keeping with the goals of the new look, our [[w:c:wikia:Terms_Of_Use|Terms of Use]] have been updated as well. Admins will no longer be able to completely remove core features for all users by using custom CSS or JavaScript. This is to protect the universal layout and functionality of every wiki on Wikia and ensure that users have access to all of the features available in the new design. Remember, these [[Help:Customization_policy |new terms]] only apply to the CSS of the wiki as a whole -- they don’t apply to your personal pages.''
:''To give a few practical examples of what this means: It’s not permitted to remove the right sidebar modules, blogs, and image attribution or add a banner that shifts the entire content area down the page, or alter the fixed width. You can still personalize your wiki with different colors and themes, add large, standout images to the wiki background, create styled templates and tables within the content area. There are plenty of ways to be creative! While these terms will limit what you can do to the overall layout, creativity is still an essential part of Wikia.''

===Ideas and solutions===
Wikia has a very poor record of fixing things, so we are on our own. [[User:Paxed|Paxed]] has already clawed back a lot of wasted space and changed the unreadable color for text.

* '''Image attribution''': [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Is_there_a_way_to_remove_%22added_by%22_from_thumbnails%3F&amp;t=20101028155200 a solution]
* '''A new logo''': I think our logo should be less tall, wider, should read "Nethack" instead of "Wikia", and it should have a similar graphical theme as the old one to help brand recognition. Perhaps parts could be made clickable to hack in a make-shift navbar.
* '''Wasted vertical space at the top.''':  We aren't allowed to hide the crap. Somehow rearrange widgets beside each other?
* '''[[MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation]]''' needs to be updated. See [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Can_sidebar_site_navigation_be_returned_in_a_show/hide_box%3F our options], [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Wiki_Navigation&amp;t=20101024095706 ].
* '''Navigation sucks''': Lots of cases, e. g. try viewing the article whose talk page you are editing. Basically, the only way to get around is to type in the URL. Can we site-wide customize "my tools"?
* '''Eyestrain''' From the cited WoWWiki page: ''Wikia staff members (ie Sannse) have been deleting ANY post which mentions eyestrain or headaches on the community blogs. There have been several ophthalmologists from Britain who've posted that the skin has caused eyestrain to those who have dominant right eyes, and that the eyestrain could easily cause a headache. All posts were deleted with the reason being "spam".''

===Impractical: moving away from Wikia===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia "Should WoWWiki leave Wikia"] is definitely worth a read.  Moving is perhaps not yet justified. Wikia would keep the old content; at best, we'd get a split in the userbase, and a shadow wiki left behind. http://wikkii.com. I'm sure Wikia will not make any concessions if we threaten. If we're lucky, we can get a copy-paste reply (though much the larger WoWWiki got some screen space). [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:20, October 28, 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>rllg9qxtkr9y07zo45bxhspfu2ce3ug</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53304</id>
      <parentid>53302</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-10-28T22:23:11Z</timestamp>
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        <id>831</id>
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      <minor/>
      <comment>/* New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks */ wording</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="43184">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into WikiHack. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting WikiHack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on Wikihack. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined WikiHack and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out WikiHack's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:I had a somewhat similar idea, except the template would hold the content in addition to the formatting (which is a bit ambitious, I have to admit, and why I never got around to making the template). A formatting template is a better idea and easier to implement. I should be able to make it in the next few days or so. Though may I ask for a shorter name such as "Encyclopedia"? —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:: I like self-documenting names. How about EncyclopediaFormat? On a second thought, a newbie is probably smart enough to figure out what Encyclopedia does. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

== New skin ==

I've used the monaco skin to create a Wikihack styled skin - just copy and paste [[User:Zapwire/monaco.css]] to [[special:MyPage/monaco.css]], clear cache, enjoy. Suggestions are welcome. --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 13:43, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

== Monster pronunciation ==

Some people have difficultly saying monster names. Maybe we could include pronunciations for things? --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 16:47, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

: What exactly do you have in mind? .mp3 files spoken by the DevTeam? By native speakers? A transcription in [[wikipedia:IPA|IPA]] alphabet? (Who understands IPA anyway?) -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:27, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

== New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks ==

===Summary of the problems===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#Important_changes_with_the_new_skin WoWWiki discusses problems] we alse have. Especially bad is the wasted screen space. Wiki functionality navigation and social-network-ization come second.

===What we can't do===
From the [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Important_Updates_on_Wikia%E2%80%99s_New_Look staff blog]:

:'' In keeping with the goals of the new look, our [[w:c:wikia:Terms_Of_Use|Terms of Use]] have been updated as well. Admins will no longer be able to completely remove core features for all users by using custom CSS or JavaScript. This is to protect the universal layout and functionality of every wiki on Wikia and ensure that users have access to all of the features available in the new design. Remember, these [[Help:Customization_policy |new terms]] only apply to the CSS of the wiki as a whole -- they don’t apply to your personal pages.''
:''To give a few practical examples of what this means: It’s not permitted to remove the right sidebar modules, blogs, and image attribution or add a banner that shifts the entire content area down the page, or alter the fixed width. You can still personalize your wiki with different colors and themes, add large, standout images to the wiki background, create styled templates and tables within the content area. There are plenty of ways to be creative! While these terms will limit what you can do to the overall layout, creativity is still an essential part of Wikia.''

===Ideas and solutions===
Wikia has a very poor track record of fixing things, so we are on our own. [[User:Paxed|Paxed]] has already clawed back a lot of wasted space and changed the unreadable color for text.

* '''Image attribution''': [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Is_there_a_way_to_remove_%22added_by%22_from_thumbnails%3F&amp;t=20101028155200 a solution]
* '''A new logo''': I think our logo should be less tall, wider, should read "Nethack" instead of "Wikia", and it should have a similar graphical theme as the old one to help brand recognition. Perhaps parts could be made clickable to hack in a make-shift navbar.
* '''Wasted vertical space at the top.''':  We aren't allowed to hide the crap. Somehow rearrange widgets beside each other?
* '''[[MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation]]''' needs to be updated. See [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Can_sidebar_site_navigation_be_returned_in_a_show/hide_box%3F our options], [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Wiki_Navigation&amp;t=20101024095706 ].
* '''Navigation sucks''': Lots of cases, e. g. try viewing the article whose talk page you are editing. Basically, the only way to get around is to type in the URL. Can we site-wide customize "my tools"?
* '''Eyestrain''' From the cited WoWWiki page: ''Wikia staff members (ie Sannse) have been deleting ANY post which mentions eyestrain or headaches on the community blogs. There have been several ophthalmologists from Britain who've posted that the skin has caused eyestrain to those who have dominant right eyes, and that the eyestrain could easily cause a headache. All posts were deleted with the reason being "spam".''

===Impractical: moving away from Wikia===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia "Should WoWWiki leave Wikia"] is definitely worth a read.  Moving is perhaps not yet justified. Wikia would keep the old content; at best, we'd get a split in the userbase, and a shadow wiki left behind. http://wikkii.com. I'm sure Wikia will not make any concessions if we threaten. If we're lucky, we can get a copy-paste reply (though much the larger WoWWiki got some screen space). [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:20, October 28, 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>3cf2nklkc8gc0s32jzer76lzp8vjk95</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53305</id>
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      <timestamp>2010-10-28T22:23:56Z</timestamp>
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        <id>831</id>
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      <minor/>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="43031">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into WikiHack. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting WikiHack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on Wikihack. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined WikiHack and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out WikiHack's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:I had a somewhat similar idea, except the template would hold the content in addition to the formatting (which is a bit ambitious, I have to admit, and why I never got around to making the template). A formatting template is a better idea and easier to implement. I should be able to make it in the next few days or so. Though may I ask for a shorter name such as "Encyclopedia"? —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:: I like self-documenting names. How about EncyclopediaFormat? On a second thought, a newbie is probably smart enough to figure out what Encyclopedia does. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

== New skin ==

I've used the monaco skin to create a Wikihack styled skin - just copy and paste [[User:Zapwire/monaco.css]] to [[special:MyPage/monaco.css]], clear cache, enjoy. Suggestions are welcome. --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 13:43, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

== Monster pronunciation ==

Some people have difficultly saying monster names. Maybe we could include pronunciations for things? --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 16:47, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

: What exactly do you have in mind? .mp3 files spoken by the DevTeam? By native speakers? A transcription in [[wikipedia:IPA|IPA]] alphabet? (Who understands IPA anyway?) -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:27, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

== New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks ==

===Summary of the problems===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#Important_changes_with_the_new_skin WoWWiki discusses problems] we alse have. Especially bad is the wasted screen space. Wiki functionality navigation and social-network-ization come second.

===What we can't do===
From the [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Important_Updates_on_Wikia%E2%80%99s_New_Look staff blog]:

:'' In keeping with the goals of the new look, our [[w:c:wikia:Terms_Of_Use|Terms of Use]] have been updated as well. Admins will no longer be able to completely remove core features for all users by using custom CSS or JavaScript. This is to protect the universal layout and functionality of every wiki on Wikia and ensure that users have access to all of the features available in the new design. Remember, these [[Help:Customization_policy |new terms]] only apply to the CSS of the wiki as a whole -- they don’t apply to your personal pages.''
:''To give a few practical examples of what this means: It’s not permitted to remove the right sidebar modules, blogs, and image attribution or add a banner that shifts the entire content area down the page, or alter the fixed width. You can still personalize your wiki with different colors and themes, add large, standout images to the wiki background, create styled templates and tables within the content area. ...''

===Ideas and solutions===
Wikia has a very poor track record of fixing things, so we are on our own. [[User:Paxed|Paxed]] has already clawed back a lot of wasted space and changed the unreadable color for text.

* '''Image attribution''': [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Is_there_a_way_to_remove_%22added_by%22_from_thumbnails%3F&amp;t=20101028155200 a solution]
* '''A new logo''': I think our logo should be less tall, wider, should read "Nethack" instead of "Wikia", and it should have a similar graphical theme as the old one to help brand recognition. Perhaps parts could be made clickable to hack in a make-shift navbar.
* '''Wasted vertical space at the top.''':  We aren't allowed to hide the crap. Somehow rearrange widgets beside each other?
* '''[[MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation]]''' needs to be updated. See [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Can_sidebar_site_navigation_be_returned_in_a_show/hide_box%3F our options], [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Wiki_Navigation&amp;t=20101024095706 ].
* '''Navigation sucks''': Lots of cases, e. g. try viewing the article whose talk page you are editing. Basically, the only way to get around is to type in the URL. Can we site-wide customize "my tools"?
* '''Eyestrain''' From the cited WoWWiki page: ''Wikia staff members (ie Sannse) have been deleting ANY post which mentions eyestrain or headaches on the community blogs. There have been several ophthalmologists from Britain who've posted that the skin has caused eyestrain to those who have dominant right eyes, and that the eyestrain could easily cause a headache. All posts were deleted with the reason being "spam".''

===Impractical: moving away from Wikia===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia "Should WoWWiki leave Wikia"] is definitely worth a read.  Moving is perhaps not yet justified. Wikia would keep the old content; at best, we'd get a split in the userbase, and a shadow wiki left behind. http://wikkii.com. I'm sure Wikia will not make any concessions if we threaten. If we're lucky, we can get a copy-paste reply (though much the larger WoWWiki got some screen space). [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:20, October 28, 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>lgd94ptq68u5eni0ieokrj1mikbj6qs</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53308</id>
      <parentid>53305</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-10-28T23:19:44Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Impractical: moving away from Wikia */ clarify</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="43038">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into WikiHack. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting WikiHack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on Wikihack. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined WikiHack and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out WikiHack's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:I had a somewhat similar idea, except the template would hold the content in addition to the formatting (which is a bit ambitious, I have to admit, and why I never got around to making the template). A formatting template is a better idea and easier to implement. I should be able to make it in the next few days or so. Though may I ask for a shorter name such as "Encyclopedia"? —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:: I like self-documenting names. How about EncyclopediaFormat? On a second thought, a newbie is probably smart enough to figure out what Encyclopedia does. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

== New skin ==

I've used the monaco skin to create a Wikihack styled skin - just copy and paste [[User:Zapwire/monaco.css]] to [[special:MyPage/monaco.css]], clear cache, enjoy. Suggestions are welcome. --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 13:43, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

== Monster pronunciation ==

Some people have difficultly saying monster names. Maybe we could include pronunciations for things? --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 16:47, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

: What exactly do you have in mind? .mp3 files spoken by the DevTeam? By native speakers? A transcription in [[wikipedia:IPA|IPA]] alphabet? (Who understands IPA anyway?) -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:27, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

== New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks ==

===Summary of the problems===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#Important_changes_with_the_new_skin WoWWiki discusses problems] we alse have. Especially bad is the wasted screen space. Wiki functionality navigation and social-network-ization come second.

===What we can't do===
From the [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Important_Updates_on_Wikia%E2%80%99s_New_Look staff blog]:

:'' In keeping with the goals of the new look, our [[w:c:wikia:Terms_Of_Use|Terms of Use]] have been updated as well. Admins will no longer be able to completely remove core features for all users by using custom CSS or JavaScript. This is to protect the universal layout and functionality of every wiki on Wikia and ensure that users have access to all of the features available in the new design. Remember, these [[Help:Customization_policy |new terms]] only apply to the CSS of the wiki as a whole -- they don’t apply to your personal pages.''
:''To give a few practical examples of what this means: It’s not permitted to remove the right sidebar modules, blogs, and image attribution or add a banner that shifts the entire content area down the page, or alter the fixed width. You can still personalize your wiki with different colors and themes, add large, standout images to the wiki background, create styled templates and tables within the content area. ...''

===Ideas and solutions===
Wikia has a very poor track record of fixing things, so we are on our own. [[User:Paxed|Paxed]] has already clawed back a lot of wasted space and changed the unreadable color for text.

* '''Image attribution''': [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Is_there_a_way_to_remove_%22added_by%22_from_thumbnails%3F&amp;t=20101028155200 a solution]
* '''A new logo''': I think our logo should be less tall, wider, should read "Nethack" instead of "Wikia", and it should have a similar graphical theme as the old one to help brand recognition. Perhaps parts could be made clickable to hack in a make-shift navbar.
* '''Wasted vertical space at the top.''':  We aren't allowed to hide the crap. Somehow rearrange widgets beside each other?
* '''[[MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation]]''' needs to be updated. See [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Can_sidebar_site_navigation_be_returned_in_a_show/hide_box%3F our options], [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Wiki_Navigation&amp;t=20101024095706 ].
* '''Navigation sucks''': Lots of cases, e. g. try viewing the article whose talk page you are editing. Basically, the only way to get around is to type in the URL. Can we site-wide customize "my tools"?
* '''Eyestrain''' From the cited WoWWiki page: ''Wikia staff members (ie Sannse) have been deleting ANY post which mentions eyestrain or headaches on the community blogs. There have been several ophthalmologists from Britain who've posted that the skin has caused eyestrain to those who have dominant right eyes, and that the eyestrain could easily cause a headache. All posts were deleted with the reason being "spam".''

===Impractical: moving away from Wikia===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia "Should WoWWiki leave Wikia"] is definitely worth a read.  Moving is perhaps not yet justified for us. Wikia would keep the old content; at best, we'd get a split in the userbase, and a shadow wiki left behind. http://wikkii.com. I'm sure Wikia will not make any concessions if we threaten. If we're lucky, we can get a copy-paste reply (though much the larger WoWWiki got some screen space). [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:20, October 28, 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>rbycrm8nomfj42sf6d919ew7o3dmzgp</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53309</id>
      <parentid>53308</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-10-28T23:27:44Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Ideas and solutions */ ... if permitted</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="43052">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into WikiHack. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting WikiHack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on Wikihack. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined WikiHack and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out WikiHack's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:I had a somewhat similar idea, except the template would hold the content in addition to the formatting (which is a bit ambitious, I have to admit, and why I never got around to making the template). A formatting template is a better idea and easier to implement. I should be able to make it in the next few days or so. Though may I ask for a shorter name such as "Encyclopedia"? —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:: I like self-documenting names. How about EncyclopediaFormat? On a second thought, a newbie is probably smart enough to figure out what Encyclopedia does. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

== New skin ==

I've used the monaco skin to create a Wikihack styled skin - just copy and paste [[User:Zapwire/monaco.css]] to [[special:MyPage/monaco.css]], clear cache, enjoy. Suggestions are welcome. --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 13:43, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

== Monster pronunciation ==

Some people have difficultly saying monster names. Maybe we could include pronunciations for things? --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 16:47, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

: What exactly do you have in mind? .mp3 files spoken by the DevTeam? By native speakers? A transcription in [[wikipedia:IPA|IPA]] alphabet? (Who understands IPA anyway?) -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:27, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

== New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks ==

===Summary of the problems===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#Important_changes_with_the_new_skin WoWWiki discusses problems] we alse have. Especially bad is the wasted screen space. Wiki functionality navigation and social-network-ization come second.

===What we can't do===
From the [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Important_Updates_on_Wikia%E2%80%99s_New_Look staff blog]:

:'' In keeping with the goals of the new look, our [[w:c:wikia:Terms_Of_Use|Terms of Use]] have been updated as well. Admins will no longer be able to completely remove core features for all users by using custom CSS or JavaScript. This is to protect the universal layout and functionality of every wiki on Wikia and ensure that users have access to all of the features available in the new design. Remember, these [[Help:Customization_policy |new terms]] only apply to the CSS of the wiki as a whole -- they don’t apply to your personal pages.''
:''To give a few practical examples of what this means: It’s not permitted to remove the right sidebar modules, blogs, and image attribution or add a banner that shifts the entire content area down the page, or alter the fixed width. You can still personalize your wiki with different colors and themes, add large, standout images to the wiki background, create styled templates and tables within the content area. ...''

===Ideas and solutions===
Wikia has a very poor track record of fixing things, so we are on our own. [[User:Paxed|Paxed]] has already clawed back a lot of wasted space and changed the unreadable color for text.

* '''Image attribution''': [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Is_there_a_way_to_remove_%22added_by%22_from_thumbnails%3F&amp;t=20101028155200 a solution] iff permitted
* '''A new logo''': I think our logo should be less tall, wider, should read "Nethack" instead of "Wikia", and it should have a similar graphical theme as the old one to help brand recognition. Perhaps parts could be made clickable to hack in a make-shift navbar.
* '''Wasted vertical space at the top.''':  We aren't allowed to hide the crap. Somehow rearrange widgets beside each other?
* '''[[MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation]]''' needs to be updated. See [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Can_sidebar_site_navigation_be_returned_in_a_show/hide_box%3F our options], [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Wiki_Navigation&amp;t=20101024095706 ].
* '''Navigation sucks''': Lots of cases, e. g. try viewing the article whose talk page you are editing. Basically, the only way to get around is to type in the URL. Can we site-wide customize "my tools"?
* '''Eyestrain''' From the cited WoWWiki page: ''Wikia staff members (ie Sannse) have been deleting ANY post which mentions eyestrain or headaches on the community blogs. There have been several ophthalmologists from Britain who've posted that the skin has caused eyestrain to those who have dominant right eyes, and that the eyestrain could easily cause a headache. All posts were deleted with the reason being "spam".''

===Impractical: moving away from Wikia===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia "Should WoWWiki leave Wikia"] is definitely worth a read.  Moving is perhaps not yet justified for us. Wikia would keep the old content; at best, we'd get a split in the userbase, and a shadow wiki left behind. http://wikkii.com. I'm sure Wikia will not make any concessions if we threaten. If we're lucky, we can get a copy-paste reply (though much the larger WoWWiki got some screen space). [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:20, October 28, 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>klxzj7ve6v6worxpi79n5vn8r12xmd6</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53338</id>
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      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Impractical: moving away from Wikia */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="43544">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into WikiHack. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting WikiHack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on Wikihack. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined WikiHack and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out WikiHack's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:I had a somewhat similar idea, except the template would hold the content in addition to the formatting (which is a bit ambitious, I have to admit, and why I never got around to making the template). A formatting template is a better idea and easier to implement. I should be able to make it in the next few days or so. Though may I ask for a shorter name such as "Encyclopedia"? —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:: I like self-documenting names. How about EncyclopediaFormat? On a second thought, a newbie is probably smart enough to figure out what Encyclopedia does. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

== New skin ==

I've used the monaco skin to create a Wikihack styled skin - just copy and paste [[User:Zapwire/monaco.css]] to [[special:MyPage/monaco.css]], clear cache, enjoy. Suggestions are welcome. --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 13:43, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

== Monster pronunciation ==

Some people have difficultly saying monster names. Maybe we could include pronunciations for things? --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 16:47, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

: What exactly do you have in mind? .mp3 files spoken by the DevTeam? By native speakers? A transcription in [[wikipedia:IPA|IPA]] alphabet? (Who understands IPA anyway?) -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:27, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

== New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks ==

===Summary of the problems===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#Important_changes_with_the_new_skin WoWWiki discusses problems] we alse have. Especially bad is the wasted screen space. Wiki functionality navigation and social-network-ization come second.

===What we can't do===
From the [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Important_Updates_on_Wikia%E2%80%99s_New_Look staff blog]:

:'' In keeping with the goals of the new look, our [[w:c:wikia:Terms_Of_Use|Terms of Use]] have been updated as well. Admins will no longer be able to completely remove core features for all users by using custom CSS or JavaScript. This is to protect the universal layout and functionality of every wiki on Wikia and ensure that users have access to all of the features available in the new design. Remember, these [[Help:Customization_policy |new terms]] only apply to the CSS of the wiki as a whole -- they don’t apply to your personal pages.''
:''To give a few practical examples of what this means: It’s not permitted to remove the right sidebar modules, blogs, and image attribution or add a banner that shifts the entire content area down the page, or alter the fixed width. You can still personalize your wiki with different colors and themes, add large, standout images to the wiki background, create styled templates and tables within the content area. ...''

===Ideas and solutions===
Wikia has a very poor track record of fixing things, so we are on our own. [[User:Paxed|Paxed]] has already clawed back a lot of wasted space and changed the unreadable color for text.

* '''Image attribution''': [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Is_there_a_way_to_remove_%22added_by%22_from_thumbnails%3F&amp;t=20101028155200 a solution] iff permitted
* '''A new logo''': I think our logo should be less tall, wider, should read "Nethack" instead of "Wikia", and it should have a similar graphical theme as the old one to help brand recognition. Perhaps parts could be made clickable to hack in a make-shift navbar.
* '''Wasted vertical space at the top.''':  We aren't allowed to hide the crap. Somehow rearrange widgets beside each other?
* '''[[MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation]]''' needs to be updated. See [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Can_sidebar_site_navigation_be_returned_in_a_show/hide_box%3F our options], [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Wiki_Navigation&amp;t=20101024095706 ].
* '''Navigation sucks''': Lots of cases, e. g. try viewing the article whose talk page you are editing. Basically, the only way to get around is to type in the URL. Can we site-wide customize "my tools"?
* '''Eyestrain''' From the cited WoWWiki page: ''Wikia staff members (ie Sannse) have been deleting ANY post which mentions eyestrain or headaches on the community blogs. There have been several ophthalmologists from Britain who've posted that the skin has caused eyestrain to those who have dominant right eyes, and that the eyestrain could easily cause a headache. All posts were deleted with the reason being "spam".''

===Impractical: moving away from Wikia===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia "Should WoWWiki leave Wikia"] is definitely worth a read.  Moving is perhaps not yet justified for us. Wikia would keep the old content; at best, we'd get a split in the userbase, and a shadow wiki left behind. http://wikkii.com. I'm sure Wikia will not make any concessions if we threaten. If we're lucky, we can get a copy-paste reply (though much the larger WoWWiki got some screen space). [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:20, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
:That could be handled in two ways: a) Site-wide notification that the nethack wiki has moved, or b) Just mirror the data from the nethack wiki, and resynch every N days or whatever.
:I talked with dtype, and as far as he's concerned, we could run a mediawiki on the alt.org server (and mirror the nethack wiki content there or whatever). The only problem is that I've never set up mediawiki, and I doubt I have the time to do that too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:04, October 30, 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>hey3z9o2taxy71u5rdz7xa1ukpd97ax</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53354</id>
      <parentid>53338</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-10-31T17:20:12Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
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      <comment>/* Impractical: moving away from Wikia */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="43897">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into WikiHack. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting WikiHack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on Wikihack. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined WikiHack and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out WikiHack's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:I had a somewhat similar idea, except the template would hold the content in addition to the formatting (which is a bit ambitious, I have to admit, and why I never got around to making the template). A formatting template is a better idea and easier to implement. I should be able to make it in the next few days or so. Though may I ask for a shorter name such as "Encyclopedia"? —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:: I like self-documenting names. How about EncyclopediaFormat? On a second thought, a newbie is probably smart enough to figure out what Encyclopedia does. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

== New skin ==

I've used the monaco skin to create a Wikihack styled skin - just copy and paste [[User:Zapwire/monaco.css]] to [[special:MyPage/monaco.css]], clear cache, enjoy. Suggestions are welcome. --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 13:43, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

== Monster pronunciation ==

Some people have difficultly saying monster names. Maybe we could include pronunciations for things? --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 16:47, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

: What exactly do you have in mind? .mp3 files spoken by the DevTeam? By native speakers? A transcription in [[wikipedia:IPA|IPA]] alphabet? (Who understands IPA anyway?) -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:27, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

== New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks ==

===Summary of the problems===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#Important_changes_with_the_new_skin WoWWiki discusses problems] we alse have. Especially bad is the wasted screen space. Wiki functionality navigation and social-network-ization come second.

===What we can't do===
From the [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Important_Updates_on_Wikia%E2%80%99s_New_Look staff blog]:

:'' In keeping with the goals of the new look, our [[w:c:wikia:Terms_Of_Use|Terms of Use]] have been updated as well. Admins will no longer be able to completely remove core features for all users by using custom CSS or JavaScript. This is to protect the universal layout and functionality of every wiki on Wikia and ensure that users have access to all of the features available in the new design. Remember, these [[Help:Customization_policy |new terms]] only apply to the CSS of the wiki as a whole -- they don’t apply to your personal pages.''
:''To give a few practical examples of what this means: It’s not permitted to remove the right sidebar modules, blogs, and image attribution or add a banner that shifts the entire content area down the page, or alter the fixed width. You can still personalize your wiki with different colors and themes, add large, standout images to the wiki background, create styled templates and tables within the content area. ...''

===Ideas and solutions===
Wikia has a very poor track record of fixing things, so we are on our own. [[User:Paxed|Paxed]] has already clawed back a lot of wasted space and changed the unreadable color for text.

* '''Image attribution''': [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Is_there_a_way_to_remove_%22added_by%22_from_thumbnails%3F&amp;t=20101028155200 a solution] iff permitted
* '''A new logo''': I think our logo should be less tall, wider, should read "Nethack" instead of "Wikia", and it should have a similar graphical theme as the old one to help brand recognition. Perhaps parts could be made clickable to hack in a make-shift navbar.
* '''Wasted vertical space at the top.''':  We aren't allowed to hide the crap. Somehow rearrange widgets beside each other?
* '''[[MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation]]''' needs to be updated. See [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Can_sidebar_site_navigation_be_returned_in_a_show/hide_box%3F our options], [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Wiki_Navigation&amp;t=20101024095706 ].
* '''Navigation sucks''': Lots of cases, e. g. try viewing the article whose talk page you are editing. Basically, the only way to get around is to type in the URL. Can we site-wide customize "my tools"?
* '''Eyestrain''' From the cited WoWWiki page: ''Wikia staff members (ie Sannse) have been deleting ANY post which mentions eyestrain or headaches on the community blogs. There have been several ophthalmologists from Britain who've posted that the skin has caused eyestrain to those who have dominant right eyes, and that the eyestrain could easily cause a headache. All posts were deleted with the reason being "spam".''

===Impractical: moving away from Wikia===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia "Should WoWWiki leave Wikia"] is definitely worth a read. Moving is perhaps not yet justified for us. Wikia would keep the old content; at best, we'd get a split in the userbase, and a shadow wiki left behind. http://wikkii.com. I'm sure Wikia will not make any concessions if we threaten. If we're lucky, we can get a copy-paste reply (though much the larger WoWWiki got some screen space). [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:20, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
:That could be handled in two ways: a) Site-wide notification that the nethack wiki has moved, or b) Just mirror the data from the nethack wiki, and resynch every N days or whatever.
:I talked with dtype, and as far as he's concerned, we could run a mediawiki on the alt.org server (and mirror the nethack wiki content there or whatever). The only problem is that I've never set up mediawiki, and I doubt I have the time to do that too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:04, October 30, 2010 (UTC)
:A pragmatic solution for the visual pain is to install the add-on [http://userstyles.org/stylish Stylish] and using [http://userstyles.org/styles/39199 this stylesheet] for wikihack. That doesn't fix the underlying problems but your eyes will thank you nevertheless. --[[Special:Contributions/84.74.150.154|84.74.150.154]] 17:20, October 31, 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>9g75vi9bmjvswna272vc2x7ymz00sem</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53356</id>
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      <timestamp>2010-10-31T17:22:31Z</timestamp>
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        <username>Bhaak</username>
        <id>91</id>
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      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Impractical: moving away from Wikia */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="43864">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} [[Category:Wikihack]]

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with Wikihack members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact Wikihack is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on Wikihack right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the Wikihack entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on wikihack and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on wikihack, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across Wikihack.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official Wikihack template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of wikihack about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes Wikihack, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to Wikihack? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more Wikihack-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on Wikihack is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on Wikihack.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into WikiHack. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting WikiHack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on Wikihack. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined WikiHack and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out WikiHack's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:I had a somewhat similar idea, except the template would hold the content in addition to the formatting (which is a bit ambitious, I have to admit, and why I never got around to making the template). A formatting template is a better idea and easier to implement. I should be able to make it in the next few days or so. Though may I ask for a shorter name such as "Encyclopedia"? —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:: I like self-documenting names. How about EncyclopediaFormat? On a second thought, a newbie is probably smart enough to figure out what Encyclopedia does. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

== New skin ==

I've used the monaco skin to create a Wikihack styled skin - just copy and paste [[User:Zapwire/monaco.css]] to [[special:MyPage/monaco.css]], clear cache, enjoy. Suggestions are welcome. --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 13:43, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

== Monster pronunciation ==

Some people have difficultly saying monster names. Maybe we could include pronunciations for things? --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 16:47, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

: What exactly do you have in mind? .mp3 files spoken by the DevTeam? By native speakers? A transcription in [[wikipedia:IPA|IPA]] alphabet? (Who understands IPA anyway?) -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:27, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

== New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks ==

===Summary of the problems===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#Important_changes_with_the_new_skin WoWWiki discusses problems] we alse have. Especially bad is the wasted screen space. Wiki functionality navigation and social-network-ization come second.

===What we can't do===
From the [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Important_Updates_on_Wikia%E2%80%99s_New_Look staff blog]:

:'' In keeping with the goals of the new look, our [[w:c:wikia:Terms_Of_Use|Terms of Use]] have been updated as well. Admins will no longer be able to completely remove core features for all users by using custom CSS or JavaScript. This is to protect the universal layout and functionality of every wiki on Wikia and ensure that users have access to all of the features available in the new design. Remember, these [[Help:Customization_policy |new terms]] only apply to the CSS of the wiki as a whole -- they don’t apply to your personal pages.''
:''To give a few practical examples of what this means: It’s not permitted to remove the right sidebar modules, blogs, and image attribution or add a banner that shifts the entire content area down the page, or alter the fixed width. You can still personalize your wiki with different colors and themes, add large, standout images to the wiki background, create styled templates and tables within the content area. ...''

===Ideas and solutions===
Wikia has a very poor track record of fixing things, so we are on our own. [[User:Paxed|Paxed]] has already clawed back a lot of wasted space and changed the unreadable color for text.

* '''Image attribution''': [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Is_there_a_way_to_remove_%22added_by%22_from_thumbnails%3F&amp;t=20101028155200 a solution] iff permitted
* '''A new logo''': I think our logo should be less tall, wider, should read "Nethack" instead of "Wikia", and it should have a similar graphical theme as the old one to help brand recognition. Perhaps parts could be made clickable to hack in a make-shift navbar.
* '''Wasted vertical space at the top.''':  We aren't allowed to hide the crap. Somehow rearrange widgets beside each other?
* '''[[MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation]]''' needs to be updated. See [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Can_sidebar_site_navigation_be_returned_in_a_show/hide_box%3F our options], [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Wiki_Navigation&amp;t=20101024095706 ].
* '''Navigation sucks''': Lots of cases, e. g. try viewing the article whose talk page you are editing. Basically, the only way to get around is to type in the URL. Can we site-wide customize "my tools"?
* '''Eyestrain''' From the cited WoWWiki page: ''Wikia staff members (ie Sannse) have been deleting ANY post which mentions eyestrain or headaches on the community blogs. There have been several ophthalmologists from Britain who've posted that the skin has caused eyestrain to those who have dominant right eyes, and that the eyestrain could easily cause a headache. All posts were deleted with the reason being "spam".''

===Impractical: moving away from Wikia===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia "Should WoWWiki leave Wikia"] is definitely worth a read. Moving is perhaps not yet justified for us. Wikia would keep the old content; at best, we'd get a split in the userbase, and a shadow wiki left behind. http://wikkii.com. I'm sure Wikia will not make any concessions if we threaten. If we're lucky, we can get a copy-paste reply (though much the larger WoWWiki got some screen space). [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:20, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
:That could be handled in two ways: a) Site-wide notification that the nethack wiki has moved, or b) Just mirror the data from the nethack wiki, and resynch every N days or whatever.
:I talked with dtype, and as far as he's concerned, we could run a mediawiki on the alt.org server (and mirror the nethack wiki content there or whatever). The only problem is that I've never set up mediawiki, and I doubt I have the time to do that too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:04, October 30, 2010 (UTC)
:A pragmatic solution for the visual pain is to install the add-on [http://userstyles.org/stylish Stylish] and using [http://userstyles.org/styles/39199 this stylesheet] for wikihack. That doesn't fix the underlying problems but your eyes will thank you nevertheless. --[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 17:22, October 31, 2010 (UTC)</text>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="43968">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on NethackWiki right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the NethackWiki entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on NethackWiki and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on NethackWiki, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across NethackWiki.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official NethackWiki template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of NethackWiki about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme|If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes NethackWiki, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to NethackWiki? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more NethackWiki-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on NethackWiki is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on NethackWiki.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into NethackWiki. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting Nethack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on NethackWiki. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined NethackWiki and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out NethackWiki's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:I had a somewhat similar idea, except the template would hold the content in addition to the formatting (which is a bit ambitious, I have to admit, and why I never got around to making the template). A formatting template is a better idea and easier to implement. I should be able to make it in the next few days or so. Though may I ask for a shorter name such as "Encyclopedia"? —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:: I like self-documenting names. How about EncyclopediaFormat? On a second thought, a newbie is probably smart enough to figure out what Encyclopedia does. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

== New skin ==

I've used the monaco skin to create a NethackWiki styled skin - just copy and paste [[User:Zapwire/monaco.css]] to [[special:MyPage/monaco.css]], clear cache, enjoy. Suggestions are welcome. --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 13:43, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

== Monster pronunciation ==

Some people have difficultly saying monster names. Maybe we could include pronunciations for things? --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 16:47, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

: What exactly do you have in mind? .mp3 files spoken by the DevTeam? By native speakers? A transcription in [[wikipedia:IPA|IPA]] alphabet? (Who understands IPA anyway?) -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:27, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

== New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks ==

===Summary of the problems===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#Important_changes_with_the_new_skin WoWWiki discusses problems] we alse have. Especially bad is the wasted screen space. Wiki functionality navigation and social-network-ization come second.

===What we can't do===
From the [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Important_Updates_on_Wikia%E2%80%99s_New_Look staff blog]:

:'' In keeping with the goals of the new look, our [[w:c:wikia:Terms_Of_Use|Terms of Use]] have been updated as well. Admins will no longer be able to completely remove core features for all users by using custom CSS or JavaScript. This is to protect the universal layout and functionality of every wiki on Wikia and ensure that users have access to all of the features available in the new design. Remember, these [[Help:Customization_policy |new terms]] only apply to the CSS of the wiki as a whole -- they don’t apply to your personal pages.''
:''To give a few practical examples of what this means: It’s not permitted to remove the right sidebar modules, blogs, and image attribution or add a banner that shifts the entire content area down the page, or alter the fixed width. You can still personalize your wiki with different colors and themes, add large, standout images to the wiki background, create styled templates and tables within the content area. ...''

===Ideas and solutions===
Wikia has a very poor track record of fixing things, so we are on our own. [[User:Paxed|Paxed]] has already clawed back a lot of wasted space and changed the unreadable color for text.

* '''Image attribution''': [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Is_there_a_way_to_remove_%22added_by%22_from_thumbnails%3F&amp;t=20101028155200 a solution] iff permitted
* '''A new logo''': I think our logo should be less tall, wider, should read "Nethack" instead of "Wikia", and it should have a similar graphical theme as the old one to help brand recognition. Perhaps parts could be made clickable to hack in a make-shift navbar.
* '''Wasted vertical space at the top.''':  We aren't allowed to hide the crap. Somehow rearrange widgets beside each other?
* '''[[MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation]]''' needs to be updated. See [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Can_sidebar_site_navigation_be_returned_in_a_show/hide_box%3F our options], [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Wiki_Navigation&amp;t=20101024095706 ].
* '''Navigation sucks''': Lots of cases, e. g. try viewing the article whose talk page you are editing. Basically, the only way to get around is to type in the URL. Can we site-wide customize "my tools"?
* '''Eyestrain''' From the cited WoWWiki page: ''Wikia staff members (ie Sannse) have been deleting ANY post which mentions eyestrain or headaches on the community blogs. There have been several ophthalmologists from Britain who've posted that the skin has caused eyestrain to those who have dominant right eyes, and that the eyestrain could easily cause a headache. All posts were deleted with the reason being "spam".''

===Impractical: moving away from Wikia===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia "Should WoWWiki leave Wikia"] is definitely worth a read. Moving is perhaps not yet justified for us. Wikia would keep the old content; at best, we'd get a split in the userbase, and a shadow wiki left behind. http://wikkii.com. I'm sure Wikia will not make any concessions if we threaten. If we're lucky, we can get a copy-paste reply (though much the larger WoWWiki got some screen space). [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:20, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
:That could be handled in two ways: a) Site-wide notification that the nethack wiki has moved, or b) Just mirror the data from the nethack wiki, and resynch every N days or whatever.
:I talked with dtype, and as far as he's concerned, we could run a mediawiki on the alt.org server (and mirror the nethack wiki content there or whatever). The only problem is that I've never set up mediawiki, and I doubt I have the time to do that too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:04, October 30, 2010 (UTC)
:A pragmatic solution for the visual pain is to install the add-on [http://userstyles.org/stylish Stylish] and using [http://userstyles.org/styles/39199 this stylesheet] for NethackWiki. That doesn't fix the underlying problems but your eyes will thank you nevertheless. --[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 17:22, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
[[Category:NethackWiki]]</text>
      <sha1>i161q3flrn8te68b8so8emfupgvfx1m</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53426</id>
      <parentid>53366</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-01T14:49:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>added gamespot.com nethack form</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="44083">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on NethackWiki right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the NethackWiki entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on NethackWiki and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on NethackWiki, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across NethackWiki.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official NethackWiki template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of NethackWiki about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme|If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes NethackWiki, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to NethackWiki? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more NethackWiki-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on NethackWiki is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on NethackWiki.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into NethackWiki. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting Nethack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on NethackWiki. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined NethackWiki and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out NethackWiki's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:I had a somewhat similar idea, except the template would hold the content in addition to the formatting (which is a bit ambitious, I have to admit, and why I never got around to making the template). A formatting template is a better idea and easier to implement. I should be able to make it in the next few days or so. Though may I ask for a shorter name such as "Encyclopedia"? —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:: I like self-documenting names. How about EncyclopediaFormat? On a second thought, a newbie is probably smart enough to figure out what Encyclopedia does. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

== New skin ==

I've used the monaco skin to create a NethackWiki styled skin - just copy and paste [[User:Zapwire/monaco.css]] to [[special:MyPage/monaco.css]], clear cache, enjoy. Suggestions are welcome. --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 13:43, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

== Monster pronunciation ==

Some people have difficultly saying monster names. Maybe we could include pronunciations for things? --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 16:47, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

: What exactly do you have in mind? .mp3 files spoken by the DevTeam? By native speakers? A transcription in [[wikipedia:IPA|IPA]] alphabet? (Who understands IPA anyway?) -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:27, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

== New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks ==

===Summary of the problems===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#Important_changes_with_the_new_skin WoWWiki discusses problems] we alse have. Especially bad is the wasted screen space. Wiki functionality navigation and social-network-ization come second.

===What we can't do===
From the [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Important_Updates_on_Wikia%E2%80%99s_New_Look staff blog]:

:'' In keeping with the goals of the new look, our [[w:c:wikia:Terms_Of_Use|Terms of Use]] have been updated as well. Admins will no longer be able to completely remove core features for all users by using custom CSS or JavaScript. This is to protect the universal layout and functionality of every wiki on Wikia and ensure that users have access to all of the features available in the new design. Remember, these [[Help:Customization_policy |new terms]] only apply to the CSS of the wiki as a whole -- they don’t apply to your personal pages.''
:''To give a few practical examples of what this means: It’s not permitted to remove the right sidebar modules, blogs, and image attribution or add a banner that shifts the entire content area down the page, or alter the fixed width. You can still personalize your wiki with different colors and themes, add large, standout images to the wiki background, create styled templates and tables within the content area. ...''

===Ideas and solutions===
Wikia has a very poor track record of fixing things, so we are on our own. [[User:Paxed|Paxed]] has already clawed back a lot of wasted space and changed the unreadable color for text.

* '''Image attribution''': [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Is_there_a_way_to_remove_%22added_by%22_from_thumbnails%3F&amp;t=20101028155200 a solution] iff permitted
* '''A new logo''': I think our logo should be less tall, wider, should read "Nethack" instead of "Wikia", and it should have a similar graphical theme as the old one to help brand recognition. Perhaps parts could be made clickable to hack in a make-shift navbar.
* '''Wasted vertical space at the top.''':  We aren't allowed to hide the crap. Somehow rearrange widgets beside each other?
* '''[[MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation]]''' needs to be updated. See [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Can_sidebar_site_navigation_be_returned_in_a_show/hide_box%3F our options], [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Wiki_Navigation&amp;t=20101024095706 ].
* '''Navigation sucks''': Lots of cases, e. g. try viewing the article whose talk page you are editing. Basically, the only way to get around is to type in the URL. Can we site-wide customize "my tools"?
* '''Eyestrain''' From the cited WoWWiki page: ''Wikia staff members (ie Sannse) have been deleting ANY post which mentions eyestrain or headaches on the community blogs. There have been several ophthalmologists from Britain who've posted that the skin has caused eyestrain to those who have dominant right eyes, and that the eyestrain could easily cause a headache. All posts were deleted with the reason being "spam".''

===Impractical: moving away from Wikia===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia "Should WoWWiki leave Wikia"] is definitely worth a read. Moving is perhaps not yet justified for us. Wikia would keep the old content; at best, we'd get a split in the userbase, and a shadow wiki left behind. http://wikkii.com. I'm sure Wikia will not make any concessions if we threaten. If we're lucky, we can get a copy-paste reply (though much the larger WoWWiki got some screen space). [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:20, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
:That could be handled in two ways: a) Site-wide notification that the nethack wiki has moved, or b) Just mirror the data from the nethack wiki, and resynch every N days or whatever.
:I talked with dtype, and as far as he's concerned, we could run a mediawiki on the alt.org server (and mirror the nethack wiki content there or whatever). The only problem is that I've never set up mediawiki, and I doubt I have the time to do that too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:04, October 30, 2010 (UTC)
:A pragmatic solution for the visual pain is to install the add-on [http://userstyles.org/stylish Stylish] and using [http://userstyles.org/styles/39199 this stylesheet] for NethackWiki. That doesn't fix the underlying problems but your eyes will thank you nevertheless. --[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 17:22, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
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Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on NethackWiki right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the NethackWiki entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on NethackWiki and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on NethackWiki, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across NethackWiki.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official NethackWiki template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of NethackWiki about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme|If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes NethackWiki, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to NethackWiki? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more NethackWiki-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on NethackWiki is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on NethackWiki.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into NethackWiki. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting Nethack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on NethackWiki. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined NethackWiki and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out NethackWiki's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:I had a somewhat similar idea, except the template would hold the content in addition to the formatting (which is a bit ambitious, I have to admit, and why I never got around to making the template). A formatting template is a better idea and easier to implement. I should be able to make it in the next few days or so. Though may I ask for a shorter name such as "Encyclopedia"? —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:: I like self-documenting names. How about EncyclopediaFormat? On a second thought, a newbie is probably smart enough to figure out what Encyclopedia does. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

== New skin ==

I've used the monaco skin to create a NethackWiki styled skin - just copy and paste [[User:Zapwire/monaco.css]] to [[special:MyPage/monaco.css]], clear cache, enjoy. Suggestions are welcome. --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 13:43, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

== Monster pronunciation ==

Some people have difficultly saying monster names. Maybe we could include pronunciations for things? --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 16:47, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

: What exactly do you have in mind? .mp3 files spoken by the DevTeam? By native speakers? A transcription in [[wikipedia:IPA|IPA]] alphabet? (Who understands IPA anyway?) -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:27, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

== New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks ==

===Summary of the problems===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#Important_changes_with_the_new_skin WoWWiki discusses problems] we alse have. Especially bad is the wasted screen space. Wiki functionality navigation and social-network-ization come second.

===What we can't do===
From the [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Important_Updates_on_Wikia%E2%80%99s_New_Look staff blog]:

:'' In keeping with the goals of the new look, our [[w:c:wikia:Terms_Of_Use|Terms of Use]] have been updated as well. Admins will no longer be able to completely remove core features for all users by using custom CSS or JavaScript. This is to protect the universal layout and functionality of every wiki on Wikia and ensure that users have access to all of the features available in the new design. Remember, these [[Help:Customization_policy |new terms]] only apply to the CSS of the wiki as a whole -- they don’t apply to your personal pages.''
:''To give a few practical examples of what this means: It’s not permitted to remove the right sidebar modules, blogs, and image attribution or add a banner that shifts the entire content area down the page, or alter the fixed width. You can still personalize your wiki with different colors and themes, add large, standout images to the wiki background, create styled templates and tables within the content area. ...''

===Ideas and solutions===
Wikia has a very poor track record of fixing things, so we are on our own. [[User:Paxed|Paxed]] has already clawed back a lot of wasted space and changed the unreadable color for text.

* '''Image attribution''': [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Is_there_a_way_to_remove_%22added_by%22_from_thumbnails%3F&amp;t=20101028155200 a solution] iff permitted
* '''A new logo''': I think our logo should be less tall, wider, should read "Nethack" instead of "Wikia", and it should have a similar graphical theme as the old one to help brand recognition. Perhaps parts could be made clickable to hack in a make-shift navbar.
* '''Wasted vertical space at the top.''':  We aren't allowed to hide the crap. Somehow rearrange widgets beside each other?
* '''[[MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation]]''' needs to be updated. See [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Can_sidebar_site_navigation_be_returned_in_a_show/hide_box%3F our options], [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Wiki_Navigation&amp;t=20101024095706 ].
* '''Navigation sucks''': Lots of cases, e. g. try viewing the article whose talk page you are editing. Basically, the only way to get around is to type in the URL. Can we site-wide customize "my tools"?
* '''Eyestrain''' From the cited WoWWiki page: ''Wikia staff members (ie Sannse) have been deleting ANY post which mentions eyestrain or headaches on the community blogs. There have been several ophthalmologists from Britain who've posted that the skin has caused eyestrain to those who have dominant right eyes, and that the eyestrain could easily cause a headache. All posts were deleted with the reason being "spam".''

===Impractical: moving away from Wikia===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia "Should WoWWiki leave Wikia"] is definitely worth a read. Moving is perhaps not yet justified for us. Wikia would keep the old content; at best, we'd get a split in the userbase, and a shadow wiki left behind. http://wikkii.com. I'm sure Wikia will not make any concessions if we threaten. If we're lucky, we can get a copy-paste reply (though much the larger WoWWiki got some screen space). [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:20, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
:That could be handled in two ways: a) Site-wide notification that the nethack wiki has moved, or b) Just mirror the data from the nethack wiki, and resynch every N days or whatever.
:I talked with dtype, and as far as he's concerned, we could run a mediawiki on the alt.org server (and mirror the nethack wiki content there or whatever). The only problem is that I've never set up mediawiki, and I doubt I have the time to do that too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:04, October 30, 2010 (UTC)
::Friendly admin of the [[w:c:d20npcs|d20 NPCs wiki]]. I recently migrated away from Wikia with the Dungeons and Dragons wiki, and this is one of the only wikis on Wikia I still visit, and I think this content is perfect for the wiki environment, and am saddened by Wikia's insistence on moving towards a more "social networking" model. I am very familiar with MediaWiki as a wiki engine, and would be glad to help get this wiki set up with a new home, if it helps break away from Wikia. --&lt;span style="font-variant:small-caps"&gt;[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]]&lt;/span&gt;☇([[w:c:d20npcs:User Talk:MidnightLightning|talk]]) 04:27, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
:A pragmatic solution for the visual pain is to install the add-on [http://userstyles.org/stylish Stylish] and using [http://userstyles.org/styles/39199 this stylesheet] for NethackWiki. That doesn't fix the underlying problems but your eyes will thank you nevertheless. --[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 17:22, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
[[Category:NethackWiki]]</text>
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      <id>53495</id>
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      <comment>/* New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks */</comment>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="44752">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on NethackWiki right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the NethackWiki entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on NethackWiki and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on NethackWiki, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across NethackWiki.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official NethackWiki template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of NethackWiki about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme|If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes NethackWiki, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to NethackWiki? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more NethackWiki-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on NethackWiki is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on NethackWiki.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into NethackWiki. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting Nethack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on NethackWiki. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined NethackWiki and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out NethackWiki's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:I had a somewhat similar idea, except the template would hold the content in addition to the formatting (which is a bit ambitious, I have to admit, and why I never got around to making the template). A formatting template is a better idea and easier to implement. I should be able to make it in the next few days or so. Though may I ask for a shorter name such as "Encyclopedia"? —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:: I like self-documenting names. How about EncyclopediaFormat? On a second thought, a newbie is probably smart enough to figure out what Encyclopedia does. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

== New skin ==

I've used the monaco skin to create a NethackWiki styled skin - just copy and paste [[User:Zapwire/monaco.css]] to [[special:MyPage/monaco.css]], clear cache, enjoy. Suggestions are welcome. --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 13:43, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

== Monster pronunciation ==

Some people have difficultly saying monster names. Maybe we could include pronunciations for things? --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 16:47, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

: What exactly do you have in mind? .mp3 files spoken by the DevTeam? By native speakers? A transcription in [[wikipedia:IPA|IPA]] alphabet? (Who understands IPA anyway?) -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:27, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

== New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks ==

===Summary of the problems===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#Important_changes_with_the_new_skin WoWWiki discusses problems] we alse have. Especially bad is the wasted screen space. Wiki functionality navigation and social-network-ization come second.

===What we can't do===
From the [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Important_Updates_on_Wikia%E2%80%99s_New_Look staff blog]:

:'' In keeping with the goals of the new look, our [[w:c:wikia:Terms_Of_Use|Terms of Use]] have been updated as well. Admins will no longer be able to completely remove core features for all users by using custom CSS or JavaScript. This is to protect the universal layout and functionality of every wiki on Wikia and ensure that users have access to all of the features available in the new design. Remember, these [[Help:Customization_policy |new terms]] only apply to the CSS of the wiki as a whole -- they don’t apply to your personal pages.''
:''To give a few practical examples of what this means: It’s not permitted to remove the right sidebar modules, blogs, and image attribution or add a banner that shifts the entire content area down the page, or alter the fixed width. You can still personalize your wiki with different colors and themes, add large, standout images to the wiki background, create styled templates and tables within the content area. ...''

===Ideas and solutions===
Wikia has a very poor track record of fixing things, so we are on our own. [[User:Paxed|Paxed]] has already clawed back a lot of wasted space and changed the unreadable color for text.

* '''Image attribution''': [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Is_there_a_way_to_remove_%22added_by%22_from_thumbnails%3F&amp;t=20101028155200 a solution] iff permitted
* '''A new logo''': I think our logo should be less tall, wider, should read "Nethack" instead of "Wikia", and it should have a similar graphical theme as the old one to help brand recognition. Perhaps parts could be made clickable to hack in a make-shift navbar.
* '''Wasted vertical space at the top.''':  We aren't allowed to hide the crap. Somehow rearrange widgets beside each other?
* '''[[MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation]]''' needs to be updated. See [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Can_sidebar_site_navigation_be_returned_in_a_show/hide_box%3F our options], [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Wiki_Navigation&amp;t=20101024095706 ].
* '''Navigation sucks''': Lots of cases, e. g. try viewing the article whose talk page you are editing. Basically, the only way to get around is to type in the URL. Can we site-wide customize "my tools"?
* '''Eyestrain''' From the cited WoWWiki page: ''Wikia staff members (ie Sannse) have been deleting ANY post which mentions eyestrain or headaches on the community blogs. There have been several ophthalmologists from Britain who've posted that the skin has caused eyestrain to those who have dominant right eyes, and that the eyestrain could easily cause a headache. All posts were deleted with the reason being "spam".''

===Impractical: moving away from Wikia===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia "Should WoWWiki leave Wikia"] is definitely worth a read. Moving is perhaps not yet justified for us. Wikia would keep the old content; at best, we'd get a split in the userbase, and a shadow wiki left behind. http://wikkii.com. I'm sure Wikia will not make any concessions if we threaten. If we're lucky, we can get a copy-paste reply (though much the larger WoWWiki got some screen space). [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:20, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
:That could be handled in two ways: a) Site-wide notification that the nethack wiki has moved, or b) Just mirror the data from the nethack wiki, and resynch every N days or whatever.
:I talked with dtype, and as far as he's concerned, we could run a mediawiki on the alt.org server (and mirror the nethack wiki content there or whatever). The only problem is that I've never set up mediawiki, and I doubt I have the time to do that too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:04, October 30, 2010 (UTC)
::Friendly admin of the [[w:c:d20npcs|d20 NPCs wiki]], here. I recently migrated away from Wikia with the Dungeons and Dragons wiki, and this is one of the only wikis on Wikia I still visit, and I think this content is perfect for the wiki environment, and am saddened by Wikia's insistence on moving towards a more "social networking" model. I am very familiar with MediaWiki as a wiki engine, and would be glad to help get this wiki set up with a new home, if it helps break away from Wikia. --&lt;span style="font-variant:small-caps"&gt;[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]]&lt;/span&gt;☇([[w:c:d20npcs:User Talk:MidnightLightning|talk]]) 04:27, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
:A pragmatic solution for the visual pain is to install the add-on [http://userstyles.org/stylish Stylish] and using [http://userstyles.org/styles/39199 this stylesheet] for NethackWiki. That doesn't fix the underlying problems but your eyes will thank you nevertheless. --[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 17:22, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
[[Category:NethackWiki]]</text>
      <sha1>l45qpndla97quq1poym4ru7hnuf3sc4</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53499</id>
      <parentid>53495</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-06T10:56:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="45836">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on NethackWiki right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the NethackWiki entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on NethackWiki and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on NethackWiki, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across NethackWiki.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official NethackWiki template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of NethackWiki about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme|If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes NethackWiki, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to NethackWiki? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more NethackWiki-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on NethackWiki is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on NethackWiki.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into NethackWiki. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting Nethack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on NethackWiki. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined NethackWiki and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out NethackWiki's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:I had a somewhat similar idea, except the template would hold the content in addition to the formatting (which is a bit ambitious, I have to admit, and why I never got around to making the template). A formatting template is a better idea and easier to implement. I should be able to make it in the next few days or so. Though may I ask for a shorter name such as "Encyclopedia"? —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:: I like self-documenting names. How about EncyclopediaFormat? On a second thought, a newbie is probably smart enough to figure out what Encyclopedia does. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

== New skin ==

I've used the monaco skin to create a NethackWiki styled skin - just copy and paste [[User:Zapwire/monaco.css]] to [[special:MyPage/monaco.css]], clear cache, enjoy. Suggestions are welcome. --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 13:43, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

== Monster pronunciation ==

Some people have difficultly saying monster names. Maybe we could include pronunciations for things? --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 16:47, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

: What exactly do you have in mind? .mp3 files spoken by the DevTeam? By native speakers? A transcription in [[wikipedia:IPA|IPA]] alphabet? (Who understands IPA anyway?) -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:27, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

== New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks ==
===What the proposed move means in practise===
New address: http://nethackwiki.com
* More Nethack content on your screen.
** Less clutter, ads, and javascript.
** [http://gtmetrix.com/compare/lCChfItL/iRME7p42 Faster loading time].
** Wikipedia-style skin.
* Hosted on the same server as NAO.
** backed by [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Paxed Paxed], [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Tjr Tjr], and the other active wiki admins
* Keep your old account, password, and edits
** Just log in with your wikia credentials if you have already edited here
** No unified login across wikia for new editors
* Almost all Wikia features keep working
** Rich text editor works, but not social network stuff, facebook, blogs.
* Ghost town at the old site, and Wikia will try to split the community
** Most incoming links already point to http://nethackwiki.com
** Once Google ranks us above the old place, it will dry up. Expect about 4 months.

===Summary of the problems===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#Important_changes_with_the_new_skin WoWWiki discusses problems] we alse have. Especially bad is the wasted screen space. Wiki functionality navigation and social-network-ization come second.

===What we can't do===
From the [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Important_Updates_on_Wikia%E2%80%99s_New_Look staff blog]:

:'' In keeping with the goals of the new look, our [[w:c:wikia:Terms_Of_Use|Terms of Use]] have been updated as well. Admins will no longer be able to completely remove core features for all users by using custom CSS or JavaScript. This is to protect the universal layout and functionality of every wiki on Wikia and ensure that users have access to all of the features available in the new design. Remember, these [[Help:Customization_policy |new terms]] only apply to the CSS of the wiki as a whole -- they don’t apply to your personal pages.''
:''To give a few practical examples of what this means: It’s not permitted to remove the right sidebar modules, blogs, and image attribution or add a banner that shifts the entire content area down the page, or alter the fixed width. You can still personalize your wiki with different colors and themes, add large, standout images to the wiki background, create styled templates and tables within the content area. ...''

===Ideas and solutions===
Wikia has a very poor track record of fixing things, so we are on our own. [[User:Paxed|Paxed]] has already clawed back a lot of wasted space and changed the unreadable color for text.

* '''Image attribution''': [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Is_there_a_way_to_remove_%22added_by%22_from_thumbnails%3F&amp;t=20101028155200 a solution] iff permitted
* '''A new logo''': I think our logo should be less tall, wider, should read "Nethack" instead of "Wikia", and it should have a similar graphical theme as the old one to help brand recognition. Perhaps parts could be made clickable to hack in a make-shift navbar.
* '''Wasted vertical space at the top.''':  We aren't allowed to hide the crap. Somehow rearrange widgets beside each other?
* '''[[MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation]]''' needs to be updated. See [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Can_sidebar_site_navigation_be_returned_in_a_show/hide_box%3F our options], [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Wiki_Navigation&amp;t=20101024095706 ].
* '''Navigation sucks''': Lots of cases, e. g. try viewing the article whose talk page you are editing. Basically, the only way to get around is to type in the URL. Can we site-wide customize "my tools"?
* '''Eyestrain''' From the cited WoWWiki page: ''Wikia staff members (ie Sannse) have been deleting ANY post which mentions eyestrain or headaches on the community blogs. There have been several ophthalmologists from Britain who've posted that the skin has caused eyestrain to those who have dominant right eyes, and that the eyestrain could easily cause a headache. All posts were deleted with the reason being "spam".''

===Moving away from Wikia===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia "Should WoWWiki leave Wikia"] is definitely worth a read. Moving is perhaps not yet justified for us. Wikia would keep the old content; at best, we'd get a split in the userbase, and a shadow wiki left behind. http://wikkii.com. I'm sure Wikia will not make any concessions if we threaten. If we're lucky, we can get a copy-paste reply (though much the larger WoWWiki got some screen space). [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:20, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
:That could be handled in two ways: a) Site-wide notification that the nethack wiki has moved, or b) Just mirror the data from the nethack wiki, and resynch every N days or whatever.
:I talked with dtype, and as far as he's concerned, we could run a mediawiki on the alt.org server (and mirror the nethack wiki content there or whatever). The only problem is that I've never set up mediawiki, and I doubt I have the time to do that too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:04, October 30, 2010 (UTC)
::Friendly admin of the [[w:c:d20npcs|d20 NPCs wiki]], here. I recently migrated away from Wikia with the Dungeons and Dragons wiki, and this is one of the only wikis on Wikia I still visit, and I think this content is perfect for the wiki environment, and am saddened by Wikia's insistence on moving towards a more "social networking" model. I am very familiar with MediaWiki as a wiki engine, and would be glad to help get this wiki set up with a new home, if it helps break away from Wikia. --&lt;span style="font-variant:small-caps"&gt;[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]]&lt;/span&gt;☇([[w:c:d20npcs:User Talk:MidnightLightning|talk]]) 04:27, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
:A pragmatic solution for the visual pain is to install the add-on [http://userstyles.org/stylish Stylish] and using [http://userstyles.org/styles/39199 this stylesheet] for NethackWiki. That doesn't fix the underlying problems but your eyes will thank you nevertheless. --[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 17:22, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
[[Category:NethackWiki]]
:: Edit: the old heading said "impractical: Moving away from wikia" because I didn't want to raise undue attention. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 10:56, November 6, 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>asr8c9l04sf3ap9knpyc72m8gkos53s</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53500</id>
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      <timestamp>2010-11-06T11:08:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="46032">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on NethackWiki right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the NethackWiki entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on NethackWiki and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on NethackWiki, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across NethackWiki.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official NethackWiki template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of NethackWiki about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme|If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes NethackWiki, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to NethackWiki? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more NethackWiki-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on NethackWiki is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on NethackWiki.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into NethackWiki. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting Nethack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on NethackWiki. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined NethackWiki and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out NethackWiki's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:I had a somewhat similar idea, except the template would hold the content in addition to the formatting (which is a bit ambitious, I have to admit, and why I never got around to making the template). A formatting template is a better idea and easier to implement. I should be able to make it in the next few days or so. Though may I ask for a shorter name such as "Encyclopedia"? —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:: I like self-documenting names. How about EncyclopediaFormat? On a second thought, a newbie is probably smart enough to figure out what Encyclopedia does. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

== New skin ==

I've used the monaco skin to create a NethackWiki styled skin - just copy and paste [[User:Zapwire/monaco.css]] to [[special:MyPage/monaco.css]], clear cache, enjoy. Suggestions are welcome. --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 13:43, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

== Monster pronunciation ==

Some people have difficultly saying monster names. Maybe we could include pronunciations for things? --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 16:47, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

: What exactly do you have in mind? .mp3 files spoken by the DevTeam? By native speakers? A transcription in [[wikipedia:IPA|IPA]] alphabet? (Who understands IPA anyway?) -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:27, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

== New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks ==
===What the proposed move means in practise===
New address: http://nethackwiki.com
* More Nethack content on your screen.
** Less clutter, ads, and javascript.
** [http://gtmetrix.com/compare/lCChfItL/iRME7p42 Faster loading time].
** Wikipedia-style skin.
* Hosted on the same server as NAO.
** backed by [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Paxed Paxed], [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Tjr Tjr], and the other active wiki admins
* Keep your old account, password, and edits
** Just log in with your wikia credentials if you have already edited here
** No unified login across wikia for new editors
* Almost all Wikia features keep working
** Rich text editor works, but not social network stuff, facebook, blogs.
* Ghost town at the old site, and Wikia will try to split the community
** Most incoming links already point to http://nethackwiki.com
** Once Google ranks us above the old place, it will dry up. Expect [http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#I.27ve_experienced_a_major_project-fork_move_before.2C_so_here.27s_my_thoughts about 4 months].
* Respect for you, the Nethack community.

===Summary of the problems===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#Important_changes_with_the_new_skin WoWWiki discusses problems] we alse have. Especially bad is the wasted screen space. Wiki functionality navigation and social-network-ization come second.

===What we can't do===
From the [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Important_Updates_on_Wikia%E2%80%99s_New_Look staff blog]:

:'' In keeping with the goals of the new look, our [[w:c:wikia:Terms_Of_Use|Terms of Use]] have been updated as well. Admins will no longer be able to completely remove core features for all users by using custom CSS or JavaScript. This is to protect the universal layout and functionality of every wiki on Wikia and ensure that users have access to all of the features available in the new design. Remember, these [[Help:Customization_policy |new terms]] only apply to the CSS of the wiki as a whole -- they don’t apply to your personal pages.''
:''To give a few practical examples of what this means: It’s not permitted to remove the right sidebar modules, blogs, and image attribution or add a banner that shifts the entire content area down the page, or alter the fixed width. You can still personalize your wiki with different colors and themes, add large, standout images to the wiki background, create styled templates and tables within the content area. ...''

===Ideas and solutions===
Wikia has a very poor track record of fixing things, so we are on our own. [[User:Paxed|Paxed]] has already clawed back a lot of wasted space and changed the unreadable color for text.

* '''Image attribution''': [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Is_there_a_way_to_remove_%22added_by%22_from_thumbnails%3F&amp;t=20101028155200 a solution] iff permitted
* '''A new logo''': I think our logo should be less tall, wider, should read "Nethack" instead of "Wikia", and it should have a similar graphical theme as the old one to help brand recognition. Perhaps parts could be made clickable to hack in a make-shift navbar.
* '''Wasted vertical space at the top.''':  We aren't allowed to hide the crap. Somehow rearrange widgets beside each other?
* '''[[MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation]]''' needs to be updated. See [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Can_sidebar_site_navigation_be_returned_in_a_show/hide_box%3F our options], [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Wiki_Navigation&amp;t=20101024095706 ].
* '''Navigation sucks''': Lots of cases, e. g. try viewing the article whose talk page you are editing. Basically, the only way to get around is to type in the URL. Can we site-wide customize "my tools"?
* '''Eyestrain''' From the cited WoWWiki page: ''Wikia staff members (ie Sannse) have been deleting ANY post which mentions eyestrain or headaches on the community blogs. There have been several ophthalmologists from Britain who've posted that the skin has caused eyestrain to those who have dominant right eyes, and that the eyestrain could easily cause a headache. All posts were deleted with the reason being "spam".''

===Moving away from Wikia===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia "Should WoWWiki leave Wikia"] is definitely worth a read. Moving is perhaps not yet justified for us. Wikia would keep the old content; at best, we'd get a split in the userbase, and a shadow wiki left behind. http://wikkii.com. I'm sure Wikia will not make any concessions if we threaten. If we're lucky, we can get a copy-paste reply (though much the larger WoWWiki got some screen space). [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:20, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
:That could be handled in two ways: a) Site-wide notification that the nethack wiki has moved, or b) Just mirror the data from the nethack wiki, and resynch every N days or whatever.
:I talked with dtype, and as far as he's concerned, we could run a mediawiki on the alt.org server (and mirror the nethack wiki content there or whatever). The only problem is that I've never set up mediawiki, and I doubt I have the time to do that too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:04, October 30, 2010 (UTC)
::Friendly admin of the [[w:c:d20npcs|d20 NPCs wiki]], here. I recently migrated away from Wikia with the Dungeons and Dragons wiki, and this is one of the only wikis on Wikia I still visit, and I think this content is perfect for the wiki environment, and am saddened by Wikia's insistence on moving towards a more "social networking" model. I am very familiar with MediaWiki as a wiki engine, and would be glad to help get this wiki set up with a new home, if it helps break away from Wikia. --&lt;span style="font-variant:small-caps"&gt;[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]]&lt;/span&gt;☇([[w:c:d20npcs:User Talk:MidnightLightning|talk]]) 04:27, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
:A pragmatic solution for the visual pain is to install the add-on [http://userstyles.org/stylish Stylish] and using [http://userstyles.org/styles/39199 this stylesheet] for NethackWiki. That doesn't fix the underlying problems but your eyes will thank you nevertheless. --[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 17:22, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
[[Category:NethackWiki]]
:: Edit: the old heading said "impractical: Moving away from wikia" because I didn't want to raise undue attention. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 10:56, November 6, 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>7uq5h038b49c8cpfe29z42bdggd24ap</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53501</id>
      <parentid>53500</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-06T11:19:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks */ the cited place says 1-2 months</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="46028">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on NethackWiki right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the NethackWiki entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on NethackWiki and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on NethackWiki, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across NethackWiki.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official NethackWiki template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of NethackWiki about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme|If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes NethackWiki, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to NethackWiki? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more NethackWiki-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on NethackWiki is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on NethackWiki.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into NethackWiki. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting Nethack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on NethackWiki. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined NethackWiki and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out NethackWiki's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:I had a somewhat similar idea, except the template would hold the content in addition to the formatting (which is a bit ambitious, I have to admit, and why I never got around to making the template). A formatting template is a better idea and easier to implement. I should be able to make it in the next few days or so. Though may I ask for a shorter name such as "Encyclopedia"? —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:: I like self-documenting names. How about EncyclopediaFormat? On a second thought, a newbie is probably smart enough to figure out what Encyclopedia does. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

== New skin ==

I've used the monaco skin to create a NethackWiki styled skin - just copy and paste [[User:Zapwire/monaco.css]] to [[special:MyPage/monaco.css]], clear cache, enjoy. Suggestions are welcome. --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 13:43, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

== Monster pronunciation ==

Some people have difficultly saying monster names. Maybe we could include pronunciations for things? --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 16:47, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

: What exactly do you have in mind? .mp3 files spoken by the DevTeam? By native speakers? A transcription in [[wikipedia:IPA|IPA]] alphabet? (Who understands IPA anyway?) -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:27, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

== New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks ==
===What the proposed move means in practise===
New address: http://nethackwiki.com
* More Nethack content on your screen.
** Less clutter, ads, and javascript.
** [http://gtmetrix.com/compare/lCChfItL/iRME7p42 Faster loading time].
** Wikipedia-style skin.
* Hosted on the same server as NAO.
** backed by [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Paxed Paxed], [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Tjr Tjr], and the other active wiki admins
* Keep your old account, password, and edits
** Just log in with your wikia credentials if you have already edited here
** No unified login across wikia for new editors
* Almost all Wikia features keep working
** Rich text editor works, but not social network stuff, facebook, blogs.
* Ghost town at the old site, and Wikia will try to split the community
** Most incoming links already point to http://nethackwiki.com
** Once Google ranks us above the old place, it will dry up. Expect [http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#I.27ve_experienced_a_major_project-fork_move_before.2C_so_here.27s_my_thoughts 1-3 months].
* Respect for you, the Nethack community.

===Summary of the problems===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#Important_changes_with_the_new_skin WoWWiki discusses problems] we alse have. Especially bad is the wasted screen space. Wiki functionality navigation and social-network-ization come second.

===What we can't do===
From the [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Important_Updates_on_Wikia%E2%80%99s_New_Look staff blog]:

:'' In keeping with the goals of the new look, our [[w:c:wikia:Terms_Of_Use|Terms of Use]] have been updated as well. Admins will no longer be able to completely remove core features for all users by using custom CSS or JavaScript. This is to protect the universal layout and functionality of every wiki on Wikia and ensure that users have access to all of the features available in the new design. Remember, these [[Help:Customization_policy |new terms]] only apply to the CSS of the wiki as a whole -- they don’t apply to your personal pages.''
:''To give a few practical examples of what this means: It’s not permitted to remove the right sidebar modules, blogs, and image attribution or add a banner that shifts the entire content area down the page, or alter the fixed width. You can still personalize your wiki with different colors and themes, add large, standout images to the wiki background, create styled templates and tables within the content area. ...''

===Ideas and solutions===
Wikia has a very poor track record of fixing things, so we are on our own. [[User:Paxed|Paxed]] has already clawed back a lot of wasted space and changed the unreadable color for text.

* '''Image attribution''': [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Is_there_a_way_to_remove_%22added_by%22_from_thumbnails%3F&amp;t=20101028155200 a solution] iff permitted
* '''A new logo''': I think our logo should be less tall, wider, should read "Nethack" instead of "Wikia", and it should have a similar graphical theme as the old one to help brand recognition. Perhaps parts could be made clickable to hack in a make-shift navbar.
* '''Wasted vertical space at the top.''':  We aren't allowed to hide the crap. Somehow rearrange widgets beside each other?
* '''[[MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation]]''' needs to be updated. See [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Can_sidebar_site_navigation_be_returned_in_a_show/hide_box%3F our options], [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Wiki_Navigation&amp;t=20101024095706 ].
* '''Navigation sucks''': Lots of cases, e. g. try viewing the article whose talk page you are editing. Basically, the only way to get around is to type in the URL. Can we site-wide customize "my tools"?
* '''Eyestrain''' From the cited WoWWiki page: ''Wikia staff members (ie Sannse) have been deleting ANY post which mentions eyestrain or headaches on the community blogs. There have been several ophthalmologists from Britain who've posted that the skin has caused eyestrain to those who have dominant right eyes, and that the eyestrain could easily cause a headache. All posts were deleted with the reason being "spam".''

===Moving away from Wikia===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia "Should WoWWiki leave Wikia"] is definitely worth a read. Moving is perhaps not yet justified for us. Wikia would keep the old content; at best, we'd get a split in the userbase, and a shadow wiki left behind. http://wikkii.com. I'm sure Wikia will not make any concessions if we threaten. If we're lucky, we can get a copy-paste reply (though much the larger WoWWiki got some screen space). [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:20, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
:That could be handled in two ways: a) Site-wide notification that the nethack wiki has moved, or b) Just mirror the data from the nethack wiki, and resynch every N days or whatever.
:I talked with dtype, and as far as he's concerned, we could run a mediawiki on the alt.org server (and mirror the nethack wiki content there or whatever). The only problem is that I've never set up mediawiki, and I doubt I have the time to do that too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:04, October 30, 2010 (UTC)
::Friendly admin of the [[w:c:d20npcs|d20 NPCs wiki]], here. I recently migrated away from Wikia with the Dungeons and Dragons wiki, and this is one of the only wikis on Wikia I still visit, and I think this content is perfect for the wiki environment, and am saddened by Wikia's insistence on moving towards a more "social networking" model. I am very familiar with MediaWiki as a wiki engine, and would be glad to help get this wiki set up with a new home, if it helps break away from Wikia. --&lt;span style="font-variant:small-caps"&gt;[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]]&lt;/span&gt;☇([[w:c:d20npcs:User Talk:MidnightLightning|talk]]) 04:27, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
:A pragmatic solution for the visual pain is to install the add-on [http://userstyles.org/stylish Stylish] and using [http://userstyles.org/styles/39199 this stylesheet] for NethackWiki. That doesn't fix the underlying problems but your eyes will thank you nevertheless. --[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 17:22, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
[[Category:NethackWiki]]
:: Edit: the old heading said "impractical: Moving away from wikia" because I didn't want to raise undue attention. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 10:56, November 6, 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>iufeflcrd79hw1zz1ucm2vtnchb915z</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53502</id>
      <parentid>53501</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-06T11:21:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* What the proposed move means in practise */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="46098">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on NethackWiki right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the NethackWiki entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on NethackWiki and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on NethackWiki, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across NethackWiki.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official NethackWiki template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of NethackWiki about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme|If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes NethackWiki, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to NethackWiki? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more NethackWiki-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on NethackWiki is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on NethackWiki.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into NethackWiki. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting Nethack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on NethackWiki. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined NethackWiki and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out NethackWiki's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:I had a somewhat similar idea, except the template would hold the content in addition to the formatting (which is a bit ambitious, I have to admit, and why I never got around to making the template). A formatting template is a better idea and easier to implement. I should be able to make it in the next few days or so. Though may I ask for a shorter name such as "Encyclopedia"? —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:: I like self-documenting names. How about EncyclopediaFormat? On a second thought, a newbie is probably smart enough to figure out what Encyclopedia does. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

== New skin ==

I've used the monaco skin to create a NethackWiki styled skin - just copy and paste [[User:Zapwire/monaco.css]] to [[special:MyPage/monaco.css]], clear cache, enjoy. Suggestions are welcome. --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 13:43, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

== Monster pronunciation ==

Some people have difficultly saying monster names. Maybe we could include pronunciations for things? --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 16:47, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

: What exactly do you have in mind? .mp3 files spoken by the DevTeam? By native speakers? A transcription in [[wikipedia:IPA|IPA]] alphabet? (Who understands IPA anyway?) -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:27, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

== New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks ==
===What the proposed move means in practise===
New address: http://nethackwiki.com
* More Nethack content on your screen.
** Less clutter, ads, and javascript.
** [http://gtmetrix.com/compare/lCChfItL/iRME7p42 Faster loading time].
** Wikipedia-style skin.
* Hosted on the same server as NAO.
** backed by [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Paxed Paxed], [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Tjr Tjr], and the other active wiki admins
* Keep your old account, password, and edits
** Just log in with your wikia credentials if you have already edited here
** No unified login across wikia for new editors
* Almost all Wikia features keep working
** Rich text editor works, but not social network stuff, facebook, blogs.
* Ghost town at the old site, and Wikia will try to split the community
** Most incoming links already point to http://nethackwiki.com
** Once Google ranks us above the old place, it will dry up. Expect [http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#I.27ve_experienced_a_major_project-fork_move_before.2C_so_here.27s_my_thoughts 1-3 months].
* Respect for you, the Nethack community.
** Prediction: Wikia will become more and more abusive in the future.

===Summary of the problems===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#Important_changes_with_the_new_skin WoWWiki discusses problems] we alse have. Especially bad is the wasted screen space. Wiki functionality navigation and social-network-ization come second.

===What we can't do===
From the [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Important_Updates_on_Wikia%E2%80%99s_New_Look staff blog]:

:'' In keeping with the goals of the new look, our [[w:c:wikia:Terms_Of_Use|Terms of Use]] have been updated as well. Admins will no longer be able to completely remove core features for all users by using custom CSS or JavaScript. This is to protect the universal layout and functionality of every wiki on Wikia and ensure that users have access to all of the features available in the new design. Remember, these [[Help:Customization_policy |new terms]] only apply to the CSS of the wiki as a whole -- they don’t apply to your personal pages.''
:''To give a few practical examples of what this means: It’s not permitted to remove the right sidebar modules, blogs, and image attribution or add a banner that shifts the entire content area down the page, or alter the fixed width. You can still personalize your wiki with different colors and themes, add large, standout images to the wiki background, create styled templates and tables within the content area. ...''

===Ideas and solutions===
Wikia has a very poor track record of fixing things, so we are on our own. [[User:Paxed|Paxed]] has already clawed back a lot of wasted space and changed the unreadable color for text.

* '''Image attribution''': [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Is_there_a_way_to_remove_%22added_by%22_from_thumbnails%3F&amp;t=20101028155200 a solution] iff permitted
* '''A new logo''': I think our logo should be less tall, wider, should read "Nethack" instead of "Wikia", and it should have a similar graphical theme as the old one to help brand recognition. Perhaps parts could be made clickable to hack in a make-shift navbar.
* '''Wasted vertical space at the top.''':  We aren't allowed to hide the crap. Somehow rearrange widgets beside each other?
* '''[[MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation]]''' needs to be updated. See [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Can_sidebar_site_navigation_be_returned_in_a_show/hide_box%3F our options], [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Wiki_Navigation&amp;t=20101024095706 ].
* '''Navigation sucks''': Lots of cases, e. g. try viewing the article whose talk page you are editing. Basically, the only way to get around is to type in the URL. Can we site-wide customize "my tools"?
* '''Eyestrain''' From the cited WoWWiki page: ''Wikia staff members (ie Sannse) have been deleting ANY post which mentions eyestrain or headaches on the community blogs. There have been several ophthalmologists from Britain who've posted that the skin has caused eyestrain to those who have dominant right eyes, and that the eyestrain could easily cause a headache. All posts were deleted with the reason being "spam".''

===Moving away from Wikia===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia "Should WoWWiki leave Wikia"] is definitely worth a read. Moving is perhaps not yet justified for us. Wikia would keep the old content; at best, we'd get a split in the userbase, and a shadow wiki left behind. http://wikkii.com. I'm sure Wikia will not make any concessions if we threaten. If we're lucky, we can get a copy-paste reply (though much the larger WoWWiki got some screen space). [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:20, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
:That could be handled in two ways: a) Site-wide notification that the nethack wiki has moved, or b) Just mirror the data from the nethack wiki, and resynch every N days or whatever.
:I talked with dtype, and as far as he's concerned, we could run a mediawiki on the alt.org server (and mirror the nethack wiki content there or whatever). The only problem is that I've never set up mediawiki, and I doubt I have the time to do that too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:04, October 30, 2010 (UTC)
::Friendly admin of the [[w:c:d20npcs|d20 NPCs wiki]], here. I recently migrated away from Wikia with the Dungeons and Dragons wiki, and this is one of the only wikis on Wikia I still visit, and I think this content is perfect for the wiki environment, and am saddened by Wikia's insistence on moving towards a more "social networking" model. I am very familiar with MediaWiki as a wiki engine, and would be glad to help get this wiki set up with a new home, if it helps break away from Wikia. --&lt;span style="font-variant:small-caps"&gt;[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]]&lt;/span&gt;☇([[w:c:d20npcs:User Talk:MidnightLightning|talk]]) 04:27, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
:A pragmatic solution for the visual pain is to install the add-on [http://userstyles.org/stylish Stylish] and using [http://userstyles.org/styles/39199 this stylesheet] for NethackWiki. That doesn't fix the underlying problems but your eyes will thank you nevertheless. --[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 17:22, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
[[Category:NethackWiki]]
:: Edit: the old heading said "impractical: Moving away from wikia" because I didn't want to raise undue attention. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 10:56, November 6, 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ijrqdcehdt2m1w0oq0nfsaiiucvka7d</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53504</id>
      <parentid>53502</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-06T11:45:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* What the proposed move means in practise */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="46128">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on NethackWiki right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the NethackWiki entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on NethackWiki and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on NethackWiki, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across NethackWiki.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official NethackWiki template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of NethackWiki about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme|If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes NethackWiki, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to NethackWiki? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more NethackWiki-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on NethackWiki is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on NethackWiki.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into NethackWiki. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting Nethack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on NethackWiki. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined NethackWiki and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out NethackWiki's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:I had a somewhat similar idea, except the template would hold the content in addition to the formatting (which is a bit ambitious, I have to admit, and why I never got around to making the template). A formatting template is a better idea and easier to implement. I should be able to make it in the next few days or so. Though may I ask for a shorter name such as "Encyclopedia"? —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:: I like self-documenting names. How about EncyclopediaFormat? On a second thought, a newbie is probably smart enough to figure out what Encyclopedia does. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

== New skin ==

I've used the monaco skin to create a NethackWiki styled skin - just copy and paste [[User:Zapwire/monaco.css]] to [[special:MyPage/monaco.css]], clear cache, enjoy. Suggestions are welcome. --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 13:43, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

== Monster pronunciation ==

Some people have difficultly saying monster names. Maybe we could include pronunciations for things? --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 16:47, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

: What exactly do you have in mind? .mp3 files spoken by the DevTeam? By native speakers? A transcription in [[wikipedia:IPA|IPA]] alphabet? (Who understands IPA anyway?) -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:27, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

== New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks ==
===What the proposed move means in practise===
New address: http://nethackwiki.com
* More Nethack content on your screen.
** Less clutter, ads, and javascript.
** [http://gtmetrix.com/compare/lCChfItL/iRME7p42 Faster loading time].
** Wikipedia-style skin.
* Hosted on the same server as NAO.
** backed by [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Paxed Paxed], [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Tjr Tjr], and the other active wiki admins
* Keep your old account, password, and edits
** Just log in with your wikia credentials if you have already edited here
** No unified login across wikia for new editors
* Almost all Wikia features keep working
** Rich text editor works, but not social network stuff, facebook, blogs.
* Ghost town at the old site, and Wikia will try to split the community
** Most incoming links already point to http://nethackwiki.com. That redirects here for now.
** Once Google ranks us above the old place, it will dry up. Expect [http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#I.27ve_experienced_a_major_project-fork_move_before.2C_so_here.27s_my_thoughts 1-3 months].
* Respect for you, the Nethack community.
** Prediction: Wikia will become more and more abusive in the future.

===Summary of the problems===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#Important_changes_with_the_new_skin WoWWiki discusses problems] we alse have. Especially bad is the wasted screen space. Wiki functionality navigation and social-network-ization come second.

===What we can't do===
From the [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Important_Updates_on_Wikia%E2%80%99s_New_Look staff blog]:

:'' In keeping with the goals of the new look, our [[w:c:wikia:Terms_Of_Use|Terms of Use]] have been updated as well. Admins will no longer be able to completely remove core features for all users by using custom CSS or JavaScript. This is to protect the universal layout and functionality of every wiki on Wikia and ensure that users have access to all of the features available in the new design. Remember, these [[Help:Customization_policy |new terms]] only apply to the CSS of the wiki as a whole -- they don’t apply to your personal pages.''
:''To give a few practical examples of what this means: It’s not permitted to remove the right sidebar modules, blogs, and image attribution or add a banner that shifts the entire content area down the page, or alter the fixed width. You can still personalize your wiki with different colors and themes, add large, standout images to the wiki background, create styled templates and tables within the content area. ...''

===Ideas and solutions===
Wikia has a very poor track record of fixing things, so we are on our own. [[User:Paxed|Paxed]] has already clawed back a lot of wasted space and changed the unreadable color for text.

* '''Image attribution''': [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Is_there_a_way_to_remove_%22added_by%22_from_thumbnails%3F&amp;t=20101028155200 a solution] iff permitted
* '''A new logo''': I think our logo should be less tall, wider, should read "Nethack" instead of "Wikia", and it should have a similar graphical theme as the old one to help brand recognition. Perhaps parts could be made clickable to hack in a make-shift navbar.
* '''Wasted vertical space at the top.''':  We aren't allowed to hide the crap. Somehow rearrange widgets beside each other?
* '''[[MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation]]''' needs to be updated. See [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Can_sidebar_site_navigation_be_returned_in_a_show/hide_box%3F our options], [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Wiki_Navigation&amp;t=20101024095706 ].
* '''Navigation sucks''': Lots of cases, e. g. try viewing the article whose talk page you are editing. Basically, the only way to get around is to type in the URL. Can we site-wide customize "my tools"?
* '''Eyestrain''' From the cited WoWWiki page: ''Wikia staff members (ie Sannse) have been deleting ANY post which mentions eyestrain or headaches on the community blogs. There have been several ophthalmologists from Britain who've posted that the skin has caused eyestrain to those who have dominant right eyes, and that the eyestrain could easily cause a headache. All posts were deleted with the reason being "spam".''

===Moving away from Wikia===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia "Should WoWWiki leave Wikia"] is definitely worth a read. Moving is perhaps not yet justified for us. Wikia would keep the old content; at best, we'd get a split in the userbase, and a shadow wiki left behind. http://wikkii.com. I'm sure Wikia will not make any concessions if we threaten. If we're lucky, we can get a copy-paste reply (though much the larger WoWWiki got some screen space). [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:20, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
:That could be handled in two ways: a) Site-wide notification that the nethack wiki has moved, or b) Just mirror the data from the nethack wiki, and resynch every N days or whatever.
:I talked with dtype, and as far as he's concerned, we could run a mediawiki on the alt.org server (and mirror the nethack wiki content there or whatever). The only problem is that I've never set up mediawiki, and I doubt I have the time to do that too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:04, October 30, 2010 (UTC)
::Friendly admin of the [[w:c:d20npcs|d20 NPCs wiki]], here. I recently migrated away from Wikia with the Dungeons and Dragons wiki, and this is one of the only wikis on Wikia I still visit, and I think this content is perfect for the wiki environment, and am saddened by Wikia's insistence on moving towards a more "social networking" model. I am very familiar with MediaWiki as a wiki engine, and would be glad to help get this wiki set up with a new home, if it helps break away from Wikia. --&lt;span style="font-variant:small-caps"&gt;[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]]&lt;/span&gt;☇([[w:c:d20npcs:User Talk:MidnightLightning|talk]]) 04:27, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
:A pragmatic solution for the visual pain is to install the add-on [http://userstyles.org/stylish Stylish] and using [http://userstyles.org/styles/39199 this stylesheet] for NethackWiki. That doesn't fix the underlying problems but your eyes will thank you nevertheless. --[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 17:22, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
[[Category:NethackWiki]]
:: Edit: the old heading said "impractical: Moving away from wikia" because I didn't want to raise undue attention. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 10:56, November 6, 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>1tybr3dpzr5hq7j47srykh950j4qylu</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53508</id>
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      <timestamp>2010-11-06T17:50:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Moving away from Wikia */ same discussion in other wikis</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="46539">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on NethackWiki right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the NethackWiki entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on NethackWiki and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on NethackWiki, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across NethackWiki.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official NethackWiki template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of NethackWiki about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme|If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes NethackWiki, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to NethackWiki? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more NethackWiki-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on NethackWiki is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on NethackWiki.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into NethackWiki. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting Nethack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on NethackWiki. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined NethackWiki and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out NethackWiki's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:I had a somewhat similar idea, except the template would hold the content in addition to the formatting (which is a bit ambitious, I have to admit, and why I never got around to making the template). A formatting template is a better idea and easier to implement. I should be able to make it in the next few days or so. Though may I ask for a shorter name such as "Encyclopedia"? —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:: I like self-documenting names. How about EncyclopediaFormat? On a second thought, a newbie is probably smart enough to figure out what Encyclopedia does. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

== New skin ==

I've used the monaco skin to create a NethackWiki styled skin - just copy and paste [[User:Zapwire/monaco.css]] to [[special:MyPage/monaco.css]], clear cache, enjoy. Suggestions are welcome. --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 13:43, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

== Monster pronunciation ==

Some people have difficultly saying monster names. Maybe we could include pronunciations for things? --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 16:47, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

: What exactly do you have in mind? .mp3 files spoken by the DevTeam? By native speakers? A transcription in [[wikipedia:IPA|IPA]] alphabet? (Who understands IPA anyway?) -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:27, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

== New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks ==
===What the proposed move means in practise===
New address: http://nethackwiki.com
* More Nethack content on your screen.
** Less clutter, ads, and javascript.
** [http://gtmetrix.com/compare/lCChfItL/iRME7p42 Faster loading time].
** Wikipedia-style skin.
* Hosted on the same server as NAO.
** backed by [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Paxed Paxed], [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Tjr Tjr], and the other active wiki admins
* Keep your old account, password, and edits
** Just log in with your wikia credentials if you have already edited here
** No unified login across wikia for new editors
* Almost all Wikia features keep working
** Rich text editor works, but not social network stuff, facebook, blogs.
* Ghost town at the old site, and Wikia will try to split the community
** Most incoming links already point to http://nethackwiki.com. That redirects here for now.
** Once Google ranks us above the old place, it will dry up. Expect [http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#I.27ve_experienced_a_major_project-fork_move_before.2C_so_here.27s_my_thoughts 1-3 months].
* Respect for you, the Nethack community.
** Prediction: Wikia will become more and more abusive in the future.

===Summary of the problems===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#Important_changes_with_the_new_skin WoWWiki discusses problems] we alse have. Especially bad is the wasted screen space. Wiki functionality navigation and social-network-ization come second.

===What we can't do===
From the [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Important_Updates_on_Wikia%E2%80%99s_New_Look staff blog]:

:'' In keeping with the goals of the new look, our [[w:c:wikia:Terms_Of_Use|Terms of Use]] have been updated as well. Admins will no longer be able to completely remove core features for all users by using custom CSS or JavaScript. This is to protect the universal layout and functionality of every wiki on Wikia and ensure that users have access to all of the features available in the new design. Remember, these [[Help:Customization_policy |new terms]] only apply to the CSS of the wiki as a whole -- they don’t apply to your personal pages.''
:''To give a few practical examples of what this means: It’s not permitted to remove the right sidebar modules, blogs, and image attribution or add a banner that shifts the entire content area down the page, or alter the fixed width. You can still personalize your wiki with different colors and themes, add large, standout images to the wiki background, create styled templates and tables within the content area. ...''

===Ideas and solutions===
Wikia has a very poor track record of fixing things, so we are on our own. [[User:Paxed|Paxed]] has already clawed back a lot of wasted space and changed the unreadable color for text.

* '''Image attribution''': [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Is_there_a_way_to_remove_%22added_by%22_from_thumbnails%3F&amp;t=20101028155200 a solution] iff permitted
* '''A new logo''': I think our logo should be less tall, wider, should read "Nethack" instead of "Wikia", and it should have a similar graphical theme as the old one to help brand recognition. Perhaps parts could be made clickable to hack in a make-shift navbar.
* '''Wasted vertical space at the top.''':  We aren't allowed to hide the crap. Somehow rearrange widgets beside each other?
* '''[[MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation]]''' needs to be updated. See [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Can_sidebar_site_navigation_be_returned_in_a_show/hide_box%3F our options], [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Wiki_Navigation&amp;t=20101024095706 ].
* '''Navigation sucks''': Lots of cases, e. g. try viewing the article whose talk page you are editing. Basically, the only way to get around is to type in the URL. Can we site-wide customize "my tools"?
* '''Eyestrain''' From the cited WoWWiki page: ''Wikia staff members (ie Sannse) have been deleting ANY post which mentions eyestrain or headaches on the community blogs. There have been several ophthalmologists from Britain who've posted that the skin has caused eyestrain to those who have dominant right eyes, and that the eyestrain could easily cause a headache. All posts were deleted with the reason being "spam".''

===Moving away from Wikia===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia "Should WoWWiki leave Wikia"] is definitely worth a read. Moving is perhaps not yet justified for us. Wikia would keep the old content; at best, we'd get a split in the userbase, and a shadow wiki left behind. http://wikkii.com. I'm sure Wikia will not make any concessions if we threaten. If we're lucky, we can get a copy-paste reply (though much the larger WoWWiki got some screen space). [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:20, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
:That could be handled in two ways: a) Site-wide notification that the nethack wiki has moved, or b) Just mirror the data from the nethack wiki, and resynch every N days or whatever.
:I talked with dtype, and as far as he's concerned, we could run a mediawiki on the alt.org server (and mirror the nethack wiki content there or whatever). The only problem is that I've never set up mediawiki, and I doubt I have the time to do that too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:04, October 30, 2010 (UTC)
::Friendly admin of the [[w:c:d20npcs|d20 NPCs wiki]], here. I recently migrated away from Wikia with the Dungeons and Dragons wiki, and this is one of the only wikis on Wikia I still visit, and I think this content is perfect for the wiki environment, and am saddened by Wikia's insistence on moving towards a more "social networking" model. I am very familiar with MediaWiki as a wiki engine, and would be glad to help get this wiki set up with a new home, if it helps break away from Wikia. --&lt;span style="font-variant:small-caps"&gt;[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]]&lt;/span&gt;☇([[w:c:d20npcs:User Talk:MidnightLightning|talk]]) 04:27, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
:A pragmatic solution for the visual pain is to install the add-on [http://userstyles.org/stylish Stylish] and using [http://userstyles.org/styles/39199 this stylesheet] for NethackWiki. That doesn't fix the underlying problems but your eyes will thank you nevertheless. --[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 17:22, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
[[Category:NethackWiki]]
:: Edit: the old heading said "impractical: Moving away from wikia" because I didn't want to raise undue attention. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 10:56, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

Similar discussions in other wikis: [[w:c:gta:Oasis|Grand Theft Auto]], [http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia WoWWiki], [[w:c:community:Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance|Anti-Wikia_Alliance]], [http://tech.slashdot.org/story/07/09/15/0327236/How-to-Stop-Commerial-Use-of-Copyleft-Materials Slashdot about preventing Wikia from using the wiki contents] [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:50, November 6, 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>rloom4yj1be4vnczt7b6sungsuwqnd3</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53509</id>
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      <timestamp>2010-11-06T19:37:13Z</timestamp>
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        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
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      <comment>/* Moving away from Wikia */ I could help too</comment>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="46766">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on NethackWiki right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the NethackWiki entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on NethackWiki and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on NethackWiki, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across NethackWiki.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official NethackWiki template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of NethackWiki about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme|If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes NethackWiki, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to NethackWiki? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more NethackWiki-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on NethackWiki is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on NethackWiki.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into NethackWiki. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting Nethack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on NethackWiki. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined NethackWiki and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out NethackWiki's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:I had a somewhat similar idea, except the template would hold the content in addition to the formatting (which is a bit ambitious, I have to admit, and why I never got around to making the template). A formatting template is a better idea and easier to implement. I should be able to make it in the next few days or so. Though may I ask for a shorter name such as "Encyclopedia"? —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:: I like self-documenting names. How about EncyclopediaFormat? On a second thought, a newbie is probably smart enough to figure out what Encyclopedia does. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

== New skin ==

I've used the monaco skin to create a NethackWiki styled skin - just copy and paste [[User:Zapwire/monaco.css]] to [[special:MyPage/monaco.css]], clear cache, enjoy. Suggestions are welcome. --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 13:43, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

== Monster pronunciation ==

Some people have difficultly saying monster names. Maybe we could include pronunciations for things? --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 16:47, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

: What exactly do you have in mind? .mp3 files spoken by the DevTeam? By native speakers? A transcription in [[wikipedia:IPA|IPA]] alphabet? (Who understands IPA anyway?) -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:27, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

== New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks ==
===What the proposed move means in practise===
New address: http://nethackwiki.com
* More Nethack content on your screen.
** Less clutter, ads, and javascript.
** [http://gtmetrix.com/compare/lCChfItL/iRME7p42 Faster loading time].
** Wikipedia-style skin.
* Hosted on the same server as NAO.
** backed by [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Paxed Paxed], [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Tjr Tjr], and the other active wiki admins
* Keep your old account, password, and edits
** Just log in with your wikia credentials if you have already edited here
** No unified login across wikia for new editors
* Almost all Wikia features keep working
** Rich text editor works, but not social network stuff, facebook, blogs.
* Ghost town at the old site, and Wikia will try to split the community
** Most incoming links already point to http://nethackwiki.com. That redirects here for now.
** Once Google ranks us above the old place, it will dry up. Expect [http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#I.27ve_experienced_a_major_project-fork_move_before.2C_so_here.27s_my_thoughts 1-3 months].
* Respect for you, the Nethack community.
** Prediction: Wikia will become more and more abusive in the future.

===Summary of the problems===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#Important_changes_with_the_new_skin WoWWiki discusses problems] we alse have. Especially bad is the wasted screen space. Wiki functionality navigation and social-network-ization come second.

===What we can't do===
From the [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Important_Updates_on_Wikia%E2%80%99s_New_Look staff blog]:

:'' In keeping with the goals of the new look, our [[w:c:wikia:Terms_Of_Use|Terms of Use]] have been updated as well. Admins will no longer be able to completely remove core features for all users by using custom CSS or JavaScript. This is to protect the universal layout and functionality of every wiki on Wikia and ensure that users have access to all of the features available in the new design. Remember, these [[Help:Customization_policy |new terms]] only apply to the CSS of the wiki as a whole -- they don’t apply to your personal pages.''
:''To give a few practical examples of what this means: It’s not permitted to remove the right sidebar modules, blogs, and image attribution or add a banner that shifts the entire content area down the page, or alter the fixed width. You can still personalize your wiki with different colors and themes, add large, standout images to the wiki background, create styled templates and tables within the content area. ...''

===Ideas and solutions===
Wikia has a very poor track record of fixing things, so we are on our own. [[User:Paxed|Paxed]] has already clawed back a lot of wasted space and changed the unreadable color for text.

* '''Image attribution''': [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Is_there_a_way_to_remove_%22added_by%22_from_thumbnails%3F&amp;t=20101028155200 a solution] iff permitted
* '''A new logo''': I think our logo should be less tall, wider, should read "Nethack" instead of "Wikia", and it should have a similar graphical theme as the old one to help brand recognition. Perhaps parts could be made clickable to hack in a make-shift navbar.
* '''Wasted vertical space at the top.''':  We aren't allowed to hide the crap. Somehow rearrange widgets beside each other?
* '''[[MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation]]''' needs to be updated. See [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Can_sidebar_site_navigation_be_returned_in_a_show/hide_box%3F our options], [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Wiki_Navigation&amp;t=20101024095706 ].
* '''Navigation sucks''': Lots of cases, e. g. try viewing the article whose talk page you are editing. Basically, the only way to get around is to type in the URL. Can we site-wide customize "my tools"?
* '''Eyestrain''' From the cited WoWWiki page: ''Wikia staff members (ie Sannse) have been deleting ANY post which mentions eyestrain or headaches on the community blogs. There have been several ophthalmologists from Britain who've posted that the skin has caused eyestrain to those who have dominant right eyes, and that the eyestrain could easily cause a headache. All posts were deleted with the reason being "spam".''

===Moving away from Wikia===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia "Should WoWWiki leave Wikia"] is definitely worth a read. Moving is perhaps not yet justified for us. Wikia would keep the old content; at best, we'd get a split in the userbase, and a shadow wiki left behind. http://wikkii.com. I'm sure Wikia will not make any concessions if we threaten. If we're lucky, we can get a copy-paste reply (though much the larger WoWWiki got some screen space). [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:20, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
:That could be handled in two ways: a) Site-wide notification that the nethack wiki has moved, or b) Just mirror the data from the nethack wiki, and resynch every N days or whatever.
:I talked with dtype, and as far as he's concerned, we could run a mediawiki on the alt.org server (and mirror the nethack wiki content there or whatever). The only problem is that I've never set up mediawiki, and I doubt I have the time to do that too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:04, October 30, 2010 (UTC)
::Friendly admin of the [[w:c:d20npcs|d20 NPCs wiki]], here. I recently migrated away from Wikia with the Dungeons and Dragons wiki, and this is one of the only wikis on Wikia I still visit, and I think this content is perfect for the wiki environment, and am saddened by Wikia's insistence on moving towards a more "social networking" model. I am very familiar with MediaWiki as a wiki engine, and would be glad to help get this wiki set up with a new home, if it helps break away from Wikia. --&lt;span style="font-variant:small-caps"&gt;[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]]&lt;/span&gt;☇([[w:c:d20npcs:User Talk:MidnightLightning|talk]]) 04:27, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
::If help is needed, I also have a bit of MediaWiki experience I could contribute.  (I'm [[mw:User:Ilmari Karonen|User:Ilmari Karonen]] at mediawiki.org.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:37, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
:A pragmatic solution for the visual pain is to install the add-on [http://userstyles.org/stylish Stylish] and using [http://userstyles.org/styles/39199 this stylesheet] for NethackWiki. That doesn't fix the underlying problems but your eyes will thank you nevertheless. --[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 17:22, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
[[Category:NethackWiki]]
:: Edit: the old heading said "impractical: Moving away from wikia" because I didn't want to raise undue attention. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 10:56, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

Similar discussions in other wikis: [[w:c:gta:Oasis|Grand Theft Auto]], [http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia WoWWiki], [[w:c:community:Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance|Anti-Wikia_Alliance]], [http://tech.slashdot.org/story/07/09/15/0327236/How-to-Stop-Commerial-Use-of-Copyleft-Materials Slashdot about preventing Wikia from using the wiki contents] [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:50, November 6, 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>pe85mqvzyy84picsac0we59mbtm7c1n</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53510</id>
      <parentid>53509</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-06T22:17:59Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Spazm</username>
        <id>764</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Moving away from Wikia */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="47148">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on NethackWiki right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the NethackWiki entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on NethackWiki and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on NethackWiki, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across NethackWiki.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official NethackWiki template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of NethackWiki about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme|If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes NethackWiki, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to NethackWiki? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more NethackWiki-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on NethackWiki is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on NethackWiki.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into NethackWiki. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting Nethack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on NethackWiki. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined NethackWiki and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out NethackWiki's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:I had a somewhat similar idea, except the template would hold the content in addition to the formatting (which is a bit ambitious, I have to admit, and why I never got around to making the template). A formatting template is a better idea and easier to implement. I should be able to make it in the next few days or so. Though may I ask for a shorter name such as "Encyclopedia"? —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:: I like self-documenting names. How about EncyclopediaFormat? On a second thought, a newbie is probably smart enough to figure out what Encyclopedia does. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

== New skin ==

I've used the monaco skin to create a NethackWiki styled skin - just copy and paste [[User:Zapwire/monaco.css]] to [[special:MyPage/monaco.css]], clear cache, enjoy. Suggestions are welcome. --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 13:43, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

== Monster pronunciation ==

Some people have difficultly saying monster names. Maybe we could include pronunciations for things? --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 16:47, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

: What exactly do you have in mind? .mp3 files spoken by the DevTeam? By native speakers? A transcription in [[wikipedia:IPA|IPA]] alphabet? (Who understands IPA anyway?) -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:27, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

== New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks ==
===What the proposed move means in practise===
New address: http://nethackwiki.com
* More Nethack content on your screen.
** Less clutter, ads, and javascript.
** [http://gtmetrix.com/compare/lCChfItL/iRME7p42 Faster loading time].
** Wikipedia-style skin.
* Hosted on the same server as NAO.
** backed by [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Paxed Paxed], [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Tjr Tjr], and the other active wiki admins
* Keep your old account, password, and edits
** Just log in with your wikia credentials if you have already edited here
** No unified login across wikia for new editors
* Almost all Wikia features keep working
** Rich text editor works, but not social network stuff, facebook, blogs.
* Ghost town at the old site, and Wikia will try to split the community
** Most incoming links already point to http://nethackwiki.com. That redirects here for now.
** Once Google ranks us above the old place, it will dry up. Expect [http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#I.27ve_experienced_a_major_project-fork_move_before.2C_so_here.27s_my_thoughts 1-3 months].
* Respect for you, the Nethack community.
** Prediction: Wikia will become more and more abusive in the future.

===Summary of the problems===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#Important_changes_with_the_new_skin WoWWiki discusses problems] we alse have. Especially bad is the wasted screen space. Wiki functionality navigation and social-network-ization come second.

===What we can't do===
From the [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Important_Updates_on_Wikia%E2%80%99s_New_Look staff blog]:

:'' In keeping with the goals of the new look, our [[w:c:wikia:Terms_Of_Use|Terms of Use]] have been updated as well. Admins will no longer be able to completely remove core features for all users by using custom CSS or JavaScript. This is to protect the universal layout and functionality of every wiki on Wikia and ensure that users have access to all of the features available in the new design. Remember, these [[Help:Customization_policy |new terms]] only apply to the CSS of the wiki as a whole -- they don’t apply to your personal pages.''
:''To give a few practical examples of what this means: It’s not permitted to remove the right sidebar modules, blogs, and image attribution or add a banner that shifts the entire content area down the page, or alter the fixed width. You can still personalize your wiki with different colors and themes, add large, standout images to the wiki background, create styled templates and tables within the content area. ...''

===Ideas and solutions===
Wikia has a very poor track record of fixing things, so we are on our own. [[User:Paxed|Paxed]] has already clawed back a lot of wasted space and changed the unreadable color for text.

* '''Image attribution''': [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Is_there_a_way_to_remove_%22added_by%22_from_thumbnails%3F&amp;t=20101028155200 a solution] iff permitted
* '''A new logo''': I think our logo should be less tall, wider, should read "Nethack" instead of "Wikia", and it should have a similar graphical theme as the old one to help brand recognition. Perhaps parts could be made clickable to hack in a make-shift navbar.
* '''Wasted vertical space at the top.''':  We aren't allowed to hide the crap. Somehow rearrange widgets beside each other?
* '''[[MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation]]''' needs to be updated. See [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Can_sidebar_site_navigation_be_returned_in_a_show/hide_box%3F our options], [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Wiki_Navigation&amp;t=20101024095706 ].
* '''Navigation sucks''': Lots of cases, e. g. try viewing the article whose talk page you are editing. Basically, the only way to get around is to type in the URL. Can we site-wide customize "my tools"?
* '''Eyestrain''' From the cited WoWWiki page: ''Wikia staff members (ie Sannse) have been deleting ANY post which mentions eyestrain or headaches on the community blogs. There have been several ophthalmologists from Britain who've posted that the skin has caused eyestrain to those who have dominant right eyes, and that the eyestrain could easily cause a headache. All posts were deleted with the reason being "spam".''

===Moving away from Wikia===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia "Should WoWWiki leave Wikia"] is definitely worth a read. Moving is perhaps not yet justified for us. Wikia would keep the old content; at best, we'd get a split in the userbase, and a shadow wiki left behind. http://wikkii.com. I'm sure Wikia will not make any concessions if we threaten. If we're lucky, we can get a copy-paste reply (though much the larger WoWWiki got some screen space). [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:20, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
:That could be handled in two ways: a) Site-wide notification that the nethack wiki has moved, or b) Just mirror the data from the nethack wiki, and resynch every N days or whatever.
:I talked with dtype, and as far as he's concerned, we could run a mediawiki on the alt.org server (and mirror the nethack wiki content there or whatever). The only problem is that I've never set up mediawiki, and I doubt I have the time to do that too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:04, October 30, 2010 (UTC)
::Friendly admin of the [[w:c:d20npcs|d20 NPCs wiki]], here. I recently migrated away from Wikia with the Dungeons and Dragons wiki, and this is one of the only wikis on Wikia I still visit, and I think this content is perfect for the wiki environment, and am saddened by Wikia's insistence on moving towards a more "social networking" model. I am very familiar with MediaWiki as a wiki engine, and would be glad to help get this wiki set up with a new home, if it helps break away from Wikia. --&lt;span style="font-variant:small-caps"&gt;[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]]&lt;/span&gt;☇([[w:c:d20npcs:User Talk:MidnightLightning|talk]]) 04:27, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
::If help is needed, I also have a bit of MediaWiki experience I could contribute.  (I'm [[mw:User:Ilmari Karonen|User:Ilmari Karonen]] at mediawiki.org.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:37, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
:A pragmatic solution for the visual pain is to install the add-on [http://userstyles.org/stylish Stylish] and using [http://userstyles.org/styles/39199 this stylesheet] for NethackWiki. That doesn't fix the underlying problems but your eyes will thank you nevertheless. --[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 17:22, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
[[Category:NethackWiki]]
:: Edit: the old heading said "impractical: Moving away from wikia" because I didn't want to raise undue attention. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 10:56, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
:Seems like this would be a lot of work, but this would be worth it in the end. Wikia has gone downhill fast in the past couple of years, with the slow page loadtimes, annoying adds, and wonky user interface changes. I would love to have a simple, clean, and fast wiki back for nethack :) I would also volunteer to help if needed. [[User:Spazm|Spazm]] 22:17, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

Similar discussions in other wikis: [[w:c:gta:Oasis|Grand Theft Auto]], [http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia WoWWiki], [[w:c:community:Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance|Anti-Wikia_Alliance]], [http://tech.slashdot.org/story/07/09/15/0327236/How-to-Stop-Commerial-Use-of-Copyleft-Materials Slashdot about preventing Wikia from using the wiki contents] [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:50, November 6, 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>187nt5jg6licepm9wls01810ngtw6ga</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53517</id>
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      <timestamp>2010-11-07T23:00:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
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      <minor/>
      <comment>/* New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks */ D&amp;D wiki move</comment>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="47218">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on NethackWiki right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the NethackWiki entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on NethackWiki and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on NethackWiki, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across NethackWiki.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official NethackWiki template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of NethackWiki about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme|If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes NethackWiki, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to NethackWiki? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more NethackWiki-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on NethackWiki is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on NethackWiki.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into NethackWiki. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting Nethack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on NethackWiki. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined NethackWiki and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out NethackWiki's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:I had a somewhat similar idea, except the template would hold the content in addition to the formatting (which is a bit ambitious, I have to admit, and why I never got around to making the template). A formatting template is a better idea and easier to implement. I should be able to make it in the next few days or so. Though may I ask for a shorter name such as "Encyclopedia"? —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:: I like self-documenting names. How about EncyclopediaFormat? On a second thought, a newbie is probably smart enough to figure out what Encyclopedia does. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

== New skin ==

I've used the monaco skin to create a NethackWiki styled skin - just copy and paste [[User:Zapwire/monaco.css]] to [[special:MyPage/monaco.css]], clear cache, enjoy. Suggestions are welcome. --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 13:43, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

== Monster pronunciation ==

Some people have difficultly saying monster names. Maybe we could include pronunciations for things? --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 16:47, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

: What exactly do you have in mind? .mp3 files spoken by the DevTeam? By native speakers? A transcription in [[wikipedia:IPA|IPA]] alphabet? (Who understands IPA anyway?) -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:27, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

== TjrNew "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks ==
===What the proposed move means in practise===
New address: http://nethackwiki.com
* More Nethack content on your screen.
** Less clutter, ads, and javascript.
** [http://gtmetrix.com/compare/lCChfItL/iRME7p42 Faster loading time].
** Wikipedia-style skin.
* Hosted on the same server as NAO.
** backed by [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Paxed Paxed], [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Tjr Tjr], and the other active wiki admins
* Keep your old account, password, and edits
** Just log in with your wikia credentials if you have already edited here
** No unified login across wikia for new editors
* Almost all Wikia features keep working
** Rich text editor works, but not social network stuff, facebook, blogs.
* Ghost town at the old site, and Wikia will try to split the community
** Most incoming links already point to http://nethackwiki.com. That redirects here for now.
** Once Google ranks us above the old place, it will dry up. Expect [http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#I.27ve_experienced_a_major_project-fork_move_before.2C_so_here.27s_my_thoughts 1-3 months].
* Respect for you, the Nethack community.
** Prediction: Wikia will become more and more abusive in the future.

===Summary of the problems===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#Important_changes_with_the_new_skin WoWWiki discusses problems] we alse have. Especially bad is the wasted screen space. Wiki functionality navigation and social-network-ization come second.

===What we can't do===
From the [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Important_Updates_on_Wikia%E2%80%99s_New_Look staff blog]:

:''In keeping with the goals of the new look, our [[w:c:wikia:Terms_Of_Use|Terms of Use]] have been updated as well. Admins will no longer be able to completely remove core features for all users by using custom CSS or JavaScript. This is to protect the universal layout and functionality of every wiki on Wikia and ensure that users have access to all of the features available in the new design. Remember, these [[Help:Customization_policy |new terms]] only apply to the CSS of the wiki as a whole -- they don’t apply to your personal pages.''
:''To give a few practical examples of what this means: It’s not permitted to remove the right sidebar modules, blogs, and image attribution or add a banner that shifts the entire content area down the page, or alter the fixed width. You can still personalize your wiki with different colors and themes, add large, standout images to the wiki background, create styled templates and tables within the content area. ...''

===Ideas and solutions===
Wikia has a very poor track record of fixing things, so we are on our own. [[User:Paxed|Paxed]] has already clawed back a lot of wasted space and changed the unreadable color for text.

* '''Image attribution''': [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Is_there_a_way_to_remove_%22added_by%22_from_thumbnails%3F&amp;t=20101028155200 a solution] iff permitted
* '''A new logo''': I think our logo should be less tall, wider, should read "Nethack" instead of "Wikia", and it should have a similar graphical theme as the old one to help brand recognition. Perhaps parts could be made clickable to hack in a make-shift navbar.
* '''Wasted vertical space at the top.''': We aren't allowed to hide the crap. Somehow rearrange widgets beside each other?
* '''[[MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation]]''' needs to be updated. See [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Can_sidebar_site_navigation_be_returned_in_a_show/hide_box%3F our options], [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Wiki_Navigation&amp;t=20101024095706].
* '''Navigation sucks''': Lots of cases, e. g. try viewing the article whose talk page you are editing. Basically, the only way to get around is to type in the URL. Can we site-wide customize "my tools"?
* '''Eyestrain''' From the cited WoWWiki page: ''Wikia staff members (ie Sannse) have been deleting ANY post which mentions eyestrain or headaches on the community blogs. There have been several ophthalmologists from Britain who've posted that the skin has caused eyestrain to those who have dominant right eyes, and that the eyestrain could easily cause a headache. All posts were deleted with the reason being "spam".''

===Moving away from Wikia===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia "Should WoWWiki leave Wikia"] is definitely worth a read. Moving is perhaps not yet justified for us. Wikia would keep the old content; at best, we'd get a split in the userbase, and a shadow wiki left behind. http://wikkii.com. I'm sure Wikia will not make any concessions if we threaten. If we're lucky, we can get a copy-paste reply (though much the larger WoWWiki got some screen space). [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:20, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
:That could be handled in two ways: a) Site-wide notification that the nethack wiki has moved, or b) Just mirror the data from the nethack wiki, and resynch every N days or whatever.
:I talked with dtype, and as far as he's concerned, we could run a mediawiki on the alt.org server (and mirror the nethack wiki content there or whatever). The only problem is that I've never set up mediawiki, and I doubt I have the time to do that too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:04, October 30, 2010 (UTC)
::Friendly admin of the [[w:c:d20npcs|d20 NPCs wiki]], here. I recently migrated away from Wikia with the Dungeons and Dragons wiki, and this is one of the only wikis on Wikia I still visit, and I think this content is perfect for the wiki environment, and am saddened by Wikia's insistence on moving towards a more "social networking" model. I am very familiar with MediaWiki as a wiki engine, and would be glad to help get this wiki set up with a new home, if it helps break away from Wikia. --&lt;span style="font-variant:small-caps"&gt;[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]]&lt;/span&gt;☇([[w:c:d20npcs:User Talk:MidnightLightning|talk]]) 04:27, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
::If help is needed, I also have a bit of MediaWiki experience I could contribute. (I'm [[mw:User:Ilmari Karonen|User:Ilmari Karonen]] at mediawiki.org.) --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:37, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
:A pragmatic solution for the visual pain is to install the add-on [http://userstyles.org/stylish Stylish] and using [http://userstyles.org/styles/39199 this stylesheet] for NethackWiki. That doesn't fix the underlying problems but your eyes will thank you nevertheless. --[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 17:22, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
[[Category:NethackWiki]]
:: Edit: the old heading said "impractical: Moving away from wikia" because I didn't want to raise undue attention. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 10:56, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
:Seems like this would be a lot of work, but this would be worth it in the end. Wikia has gone downhill fast in the past couple of years, with the slow page loadtimes, annoying adds, and wonky user interface changes. I would love to have a simple, clean, and fast wiki back for nethack :) I would also volunteer to help if needed. [[User:Spazm|Spazm]] 22:17, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

Similar discussions in other wikis: [[w:c:gta:Oasis|Grand Theft Auto]], [http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia WoWWiki], [[w:c:community:Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance|Anti-Wikia_Alliance]], [http://tech.slashdot.org/story/07/09/15/0327236/How-to-Stop-Commerial-Use-of-Copyleft-Materials Slashdot about preventing Wikia from using the wiki contents], [http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/User_talk:Surgo outcome at Dungeons&amp;Dragons] [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:50, November 6, 2010 (UTC)</text>
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Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on NethackWiki right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the NethackWiki entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on NethackWiki and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on NethackWiki, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across NethackWiki.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official NethackWiki template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of NethackWiki about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme|If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes NethackWiki, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to NethackWiki? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more NethackWiki-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on NethackWiki is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on NethackWiki.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into NethackWiki. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting Nethack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on NethackWiki. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined NethackWiki and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out NethackWiki's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:I had a somewhat similar idea, except the template would hold the content in addition to the formatting (which is a bit ambitious, I have to admit, and why I never got around to making the template). A formatting template is a better idea and easier to implement. I should be able to make it in the next few days or so. Though may I ask for a shorter name such as "Encyclopedia"? —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:: I like self-documenting names. How about EncyclopediaFormat? On a second thought, a newbie is probably smart enough to figure out what Encyclopedia does. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

== New skin ==

I've used the monaco skin to create a NethackWiki styled skin - just copy and paste [[User:Zapwire/monaco.css]] to [[special:MyPage/monaco.css]], clear cache, enjoy. Suggestions are welcome. --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 13:43, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

== Monster pronunciation ==

Some people have difficultly saying monster names. Maybe we could include pronunciations for things? --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 16:47, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

: What exactly do you have in mind? .mp3 files spoken by the DevTeam? By native speakers? A transcription in [[wikipedia:IPA|IPA]] alphabet? (Who understands IPA anyway?) -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:27, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

==New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks ==
===What the proposed move means in practise===
New address: http://nethackwiki.com
* More Nethack content on your screen.
** Less clutter, ads, and javascript.
** [http://gtmetrix.com/compare/lCChfItL/iRME7p42 Faster loading time].
** Wikipedia-style skin.
* Hosted on the same server as NAO.
** backed by [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Paxed Paxed], [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Tjr Tjr], and the other active wiki admins
* Keep your old account, password, and edits
** Just log in with your wikia credentials if you have already edited here
** No unified login across wikia for new editors
* Almost all Wikia features keep working
** Rich text editor works, but not social network stuff, facebook, blogs.
* Ghost town at the old site, and Wikia will try to split the community
** Most incoming links already point to http://nethackwiki.com. That redirects here for now.
** Once Google ranks us above the old place, it will dry up. Expect [http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#I.27ve_experienced_a_major_project-fork_move_before.2C_so_here.27s_my_thoughts 1-3 months].
* Respect for you, the Nethack community.
** Prediction: Wikia will become more and more abusive in the future.

===Summary of the problems===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#Important_changes_with_the_new_skin WoWWiki discusses problems] we alse have. Especially bad is the wasted screen space. Wiki functionality navigation and social-network-ization come second.

===What we can't do===
From the [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Important_Updates_on_Wikia%E2%80%99s_New_Look staff blog]:

:''In keeping with the goals of the new look, our [[w:c:wikia:Terms_Of_Use|Terms of Use]] have been updated as well. Admins will no longer be able to completely remove core features for all users by using custom CSS or JavaScript. This is to protect the universal layout and functionality of every wiki on Wikia and ensure that users have access to all of the features available in the new design. Remember, these [[Help:Customization_policy |new terms]] only apply to the CSS of the wiki as a whole -- they don’t apply to your personal pages.''
:''To give a few practical examples of what this means: It’s not permitted to remove the right sidebar modules, blogs, and image attribution or add a banner that shifts the entire content area down the page, or alter the fixed width. You can still personalize your wiki with different colors and themes, add large, standout images to the wiki background, create styled templates and tables within the content area. ...''

===Ideas and solutions===
Wikia has a very poor track record of fixing things, so we are on our own. [[User:Paxed|Paxed]] has already clawed back a lot of wasted space and changed the unreadable color for text.

* '''Image attribution''': [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Is_there_a_way_to_remove_%22added_by%22_from_thumbnails%3F&amp;t=20101028155200 a solution] iff permitted
* '''A new logo''': I think our logo should be less tall, wider, should read "Nethack" instead of "Wikia", and it should have a similar graphical theme as the old one to help brand recognition. Perhaps parts could be made clickable to hack in a make-shift navbar.
* '''Wasted vertical space at the top.''': We aren't allowed to hide the crap. Somehow rearrange widgets beside each other?
* '''[[MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation]]''' needs to be updated. See [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Can_sidebar_site_navigation_be_returned_in_a_show/hide_box%3F our options], [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Wiki_Navigation&amp;t=20101024095706].
* '''Navigation sucks''': Lots of cases, e. g. try viewing the article whose talk page you are editing. Basically, the only way to get around is to type in the URL. Can we site-wide customize "my tools"?
* '''Eyestrain''' From the cited WoWWiki page: ''Wikia staff members (ie Sannse) have been deleting ANY post which mentions eyestrain or headaches on the community blogs. There have been several ophthalmologists from Britain who've posted that the skin has caused eyestrain to those who have dominant right eyes, and that the eyestrain could easily cause a headache. All posts were deleted with the reason being "spam".''

===Moving away from Wikia===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia "Should WoWWiki leave Wikia"] is definitely worth a read. Moving is perhaps not yet justified for us. Wikia would keep the old content; at best, we'd get a split in the userbase, and a shadow wiki left behind. http://wikkii.com. I'm sure Wikia will not make any concessions if we threaten. If we're lucky, we can get a copy-paste reply (though much the larger WoWWiki got some screen space). [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:20, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
:That could be handled in two ways: a) Site-wide notification that the nethack wiki has moved, or b) Just mirror the data from the nethack wiki, and resynch every N days or whatever.
:I talked with dtype, and as far as he's concerned, we could run a mediawiki on the alt.org server (and mirror the nethack wiki content there or whatever). The only problem is that I've never set up mediawiki, and I doubt I have the time to do that too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:04, October 30, 2010 (UTC)
::Friendly admin of the [[w:c:d20npcs|d20 NPCs wiki]], here. I recently migrated away from Wikia with the Dungeons and Dragons wiki, and this is one of the only wikis on Wikia I still visit, and I think this content is perfect for the wiki environment, and am saddened by Wikia's insistence on moving towards a more "social networking" model. I am very familiar with MediaWiki as a wiki engine, and would be glad to help get this wiki set up with a new home, if it helps break away from Wikia. --&lt;span style="font-variant:small-caps"&gt;[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]]&lt;/span&gt;☇([[w:c:d20npcs:User Talk:MidnightLightning|talk]]) 04:27, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
::If help is needed, I also have a bit of MediaWiki experience I could contribute. (I'm [[mw:User:Ilmari Karonen|User:Ilmari Karonen]] at mediawiki.org.) --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:37, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
:A pragmatic solution for the visual pain is to install the add-on [http://userstyles.org/stylish Stylish] and using [http://userstyles.org/styles/39199 this stylesheet] for NethackWiki. That doesn't fix the underlying problems but your eyes will thank you nevertheless. --[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 17:22, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
[[Category:NethackWiki]]
:: Edit: the old heading said "impractical: Moving away from wikia" because I didn't want to raise undue attention. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 10:56, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
:Seems like this would be a lot of work, but this would be worth it in the end. Wikia has gone downhill fast in the past couple of years, with the slow page loadtimes, annoying adds, and wonky user interface changes. I would love to have a simple, clean, and fast wiki back for nethack :) I would also volunteer to help if needed. [[User:Spazm|Spazm]] 22:17, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

Similar discussions in other wikis: [[w:c:gta:Oasis|Grand Theft Auto]], [http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia WoWWiki], [[w:c:community:Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance|Anti-Wikia_Alliance]], [http://tech.slashdot.org/story/07/09/15/0327236/How-to-Stop-Commerial-Use-of-Copyleft-Materials Slashdot about preventing Wikia from using the wiki contents], [http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/User_talk:Surgo outcome at Dungeons&amp;Dragons] [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:50, November 6, 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>cf83v26fbel3tp0ai8u6wepavy3gewl</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53520</id>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="47266">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on NethackWiki right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the NethackWiki entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on NethackWiki and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on NethackWiki, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across NethackWiki.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official NethackWiki template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of NethackWiki about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme|If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes NethackWiki, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to NethackWiki? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more NethackWiki-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on NethackWiki is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on NethackWiki.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into NethackWiki. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting Nethack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on NethackWiki. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined NethackWiki and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out NethackWiki's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:I had a somewhat similar idea, except the template would hold the content in addition to the formatting (which is a bit ambitious, I have to admit, and why I never got around to making the template). A formatting template is a better idea and easier to implement. I should be able to make it in the next few days or so. Though may I ask for a shorter name such as "Encyclopedia"? —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:: I like self-documenting names. How about EncyclopediaFormat? On a second thought, a newbie is probably smart enough to figure out what Encyclopedia does. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

== New skin ==

I've used the monaco skin to create a NethackWiki styled skin - just copy and paste [[User:Zapwire/monaco.css]] to [[special:MyPage/monaco.css]], clear cache, enjoy. Suggestions are welcome. --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 13:43, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

== Monster pronunciation ==

Some people have difficultly saying monster names. Maybe we could include pronunciations for things? --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 16:47, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

: What exactly do you have in mind? .mp3 files spoken by the DevTeam? By native speakers? A transcription in [[wikipedia:IPA|IPA]] alphabet? (Who understands IPA anyway?) -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:27, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

==New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks ==
===What the proposed move means in practise===
New address: http://nethackwiki.com
* More Nethack content on your screen.
** Less clutter, ads, and javascript.
** [http://gtmetrix.com/compare/lCChfItL/iRME7p42 Faster loading time].
** Wikipedia-style skin.
* Hosted on the same server as NAO.
** backed by [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Paxed Paxed], [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Tjr Tjr], and the other active wiki admins
* Keep your old account, password, and edits
** Just log in with your wikia credentials if you have already edited here
** No unified login across wikia for new editors
* Almost all Wikia features keep working
** Rich text editor works, but not social network stuff, facebook, blogs.
* Ghost town at the old site, and Wikia will try to split the community
** Most incoming links already point to http://nethackwiki.com. That redirects here for now.
** Once Google ranks us above the old place, it will dry up. Expect [http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#I.27ve_experienced_a_major_project-fork_move_before.2C_so_here.27s_my_thoughts 1-3 months].
* Respect for you, the Nethack community.
** Prediction: Wikia will become more and more abusive in the future.

===Summary of the problems===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#Important_changes_with_the_new_skin WoWWiki discusses problems] we alse have. Especially bad is the wasted screen space. Wiki functionality navigation and social-network-ization come second.

===What we can't do===
From the [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Important_Updates_on_Wikia%E2%80%99s_New_Look staff blog]:

:''In keeping with the goals of the new look, our [[w:c:wikia:Terms_Of_Use|Terms of Use]] have been updated as well. Admins will no longer be able to completely remove core features for all users by using custom CSS or JavaScript. This is to protect the universal layout and functionality of every wiki on Wikia and ensure that users have access to all of the features available in the new design. Remember, these [[Help:Customization_policy |new terms]] only apply to the CSS of the wiki as a whole -- they don’t apply to your personal pages.''
:''To give a few practical examples of what this means: It’s not permitted to remove the right sidebar modules, blogs, and image attribution or add a banner that shifts the entire content area down the page, or alter the fixed width. You can still personalize your wiki with different colors and themes, add large, standout images to the wiki background, create styled templates and tables within the content area. ...''

===Ideas and solutions===
Wikia has a very poor track record of fixing things, so we are on our own. [[User:Paxed|Paxed]] has already clawed back a lot of wasted space and changed the unreadable color for text.

* '''Image attribution''': [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Is_there_a_way_to_remove_%22added_by%22_from_thumbnails%3F&amp;t=20101028155200 a solution] iff permitted
* '''A new logo''': I think our logo should be less tall, wider, should read "Nethack" instead of "Wikia", and it should have a similar graphical theme as the old one to help brand recognition. Perhaps parts could be made clickable to hack in a make-shift navbar.
* '''Wasted vertical space at the top.''': We aren't allowed to hide the crap. Somehow rearrange widgets beside each other?
* '''[[MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation]]''' needs to be updated. See [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Can_sidebar_site_navigation_be_returned_in_a_show/hide_box%3F our options], [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Wiki_Navigation&amp;t=20101024095706].
* '''Navigation sucks''': Lots of cases, e. g. try viewing the article whose talk page you are editing. Basically, the only way to get around is to type in the URL. Can we site-wide customize "my tools"?
* '''Eyestrain''' From the cited WoWWiki page: ''Wikia staff members (ie Sannse) have been deleting ANY post which mentions eyestrain or headaches on the community blogs. There have been several ophthalmologists from Britain who've posted that the skin has caused eyestrain to those who have dominant right eyes, and that the eyestrain could easily cause a headache. All posts were deleted with the reason being "spam".''

===Moving away from Wikia===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia "Should WoWWiki leave Wikia"] is definitely worth a read. Moving is perhaps not yet justified for us. Wikia would keep the old content; at best, we'd get a split in the userbase, and a shadow wiki left behind. http://wikkii.com. I'm sure Wikia will not make any concessions if we threaten. If we're lucky, we can get a copy-paste reply (though much the larger WoWWiki got some screen space). [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:20, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
:That could be handled in two ways: a) Site-wide notification that the nethack wiki has moved, or b) Just mirror the data from the nethack wiki, and resynch every N days or whatever.
:I talked with dtype, and as far as he's concerned, we could run a mediawiki on the alt.org server (and mirror the nethack wiki content there or whatever). The only problem is that I've never set up mediawiki, and I doubt I have the time to do that too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:04, October 30, 2010 (UTC)
::Friendly admin of the [[w:c:d20npcs|d20 NPCs wiki]], here. I recently migrated away from Wikia with the Dungeons and Dragons wiki, and this is one of the only wikis on Wikia I still visit, and I think this content is perfect for the wiki environment, and am saddened by Wikia's insistence on moving towards a more "social networking" model. I am very familiar with MediaWiki as a wiki engine, and would be glad to help get this wiki set up with a new home, if it helps break away from Wikia. --&lt;span style="font-variant:small-caps"&gt;[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]]&lt;/span&gt;☇([[w:c:d20npcs:User Talk:MidnightLightning|talk]]) 04:27, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
::If help is needed, I also have a bit of MediaWiki experience I could contribute. (I'm [[mw:User:Ilmari Karonen|User:Ilmari Karonen]] at mediawiki.org.) --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:37, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
:A pragmatic solution for the visual pain is to install the add-on [http://userstyles.org/stylish Stylish] and using [http://userstyles.org/styles/39199 this stylesheet] for NethackWiki. That doesn't fix the underlying problems but your eyes will thank you nevertheless. --[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 17:22, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
[[Category:NethackWiki]]
:: Edit: the old heading said "impractical: Moving away from wikia" because I didn't want to raise undue attention. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 10:56, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
:Seems like this would be a lot of work, but this would be worth it in the end. Wikia has gone downhill fast in the past couple of years, with the slow page loadtimes, annoying adds, and wonky user interface changes. I would love to have a simple, clean, and fast wiki back for nethack :) I would also volunteer to help if needed. [[User:Spazm|Spazm]] 22:17, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

Similar discussions in other wikis: [[w:c:gta:Oasis|Grand Theft Auto]], [http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia WoWWiki], [[w:c:community:Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance|Anti-Wikia_Alliance]], [http://tech.slashdot.org/story/07/09/15/0327236/How-to-Stop-Commerial-Use-of-Copyleft-Materials Slashdot about preventing Wikia from using the wiki contents], [http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:We%27re_Moving Dungeons&amp;Dragons], [http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/User_talk:Surgo outcome] [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:50, November 6, 2010 (UTC)</text>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="47767">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on NethackWiki right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the NethackWiki entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on NethackWiki and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on NethackWiki, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across NethackWiki.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official NethackWiki template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of NethackWiki about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme|If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes NethackWiki, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to NethackWiki? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more NethackWiki-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on NethackWiki is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on NethackWiki.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into NethackWiki. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting Nethack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on NethackWiki. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined NethackWiki and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out NethackWiki's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:I had a somewhat similar idea, except the template would hold the content in addition to the formatting (which is a bit ambitious, I have to admit, and why I never got around to making the template). A formatting template is a better idea and easier to implement. I should be able to make it in the next few days or so. Though may I ask for a shorter name such as "Encyclopedia"? —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:: I like self-documenting names. How about EncyclopediaFormat? On a second thought, a newbie is probably smart enough to figure out what Encyclopedia does. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

== New skin ==

I've used the monaco skin to create a NethackWiki styled skin - just copy and paste [[User:Zapwire/monaco.css]] to [[special:MyPage/monaco.css]], clear cache, enjoy. Suggestions are welcome. --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 13:43, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

== Monster pronunciation ==

Some people have difficultly saying monster names. Maybe we could include pronunciations for things? --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 16:47, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

: What exactly do you have in mind? .mp3 files spoken by the DevTeam? By native speakers? A transcription in [[wikipedia:IPA|IPA]] alphabet? (Who understands IPA anyway?) -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:27, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

==New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks ==
===What the proposed move means in practise===
New address: http://nethackwiki.com
* More Nethack content on your screen.
** Less clutter, ads, and javascript.
** [http://gtmetrix.com/compare/lCChfItL/iRME7p42 Faster loading time].
** Wikipedia-style skin.
* Hosted on the same server as NAO.
** backed by [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Paxed Paxed], [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Tjr Tjr], and the other active wiki admins
* Keep your old account, password, and edits
** Just log in with your wikia credentials if you have already edited here
** No unified login across wikia for new editors
* Almost all Wikia features keep working
** Rich text editor works, but not social network stuff, facebook, blogs.
* Ghost town at the old site, and Wikia will try to split the community
** Most incoming links already point to http://nethackwiki.com. That redirects here for now.
** Once Google ranks us above the old place, it will dry up. Expect [http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#I.27ve_experienced_a_major_project-fork_move_before.2C_so_here.27s_my_thoughts 1-3 months].
* Respect for you, the Nethack community.
** Prediction: Wikia will become more and more abusive in the future.

===Summary of the problems===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#Important_changes_with_the_new_skin WoWWiki discusses problems] we alse have. Especially bad is the wasted screen space. Wiki functionality navigation and social-network-ization come second.

===What we can't do===
From the [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Important_Updates_on_Wikia%E2%80%99s_New_Look staff blog]:

:''In keeping with the goals of the new look, our [[w:c:wikia:Terms_Of_Use|Terms of Use]] have been updated as well. Admins will no longer be able to completely remove core features for all users by using custom CSS or JavaScript. This is to protect the universal layout and functionality of every wiki on Wikia and ensure that users have access to all of the features available in the new design. Remember, these [[Help:Customization_policy |new terms]] only apply to the CSS of the wiki as a whole -- they don’t apply to your personal pages.''
:''To give a few practical examples of what this means: It’s not permitted to remove the right sidebar modules, blogs, and image attribution or add a banner that shifts the entire content area down the page, or alter the fixed width. You can still personalize your wiki with different colors and themes, add large, standout images to the wiki background, create styled templates and tables within the content area. ...''

===Ideas and solutions===
Wikia has a very poor track record of fixing things, so we are on our own. [[User:Paxed|Paxed]] has already clawed back a lot of wasted space and changed the unreadable color for text.

* '''Image attribution''': [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Is_there_a_way_to_remove_%22added_by%22_from_thumbnails%3F&amp;t=20101028155200 a solution] iff permitted
* '''A new logo''': I think our logo should be less tall, wider, should read "Nethack" instead of "Wikia", and it should have a similar graphical theme as the old one to help brand recognition. Perhaps parts could be made clickable to hack in a make-shift navbar.
* '''Wasted vertical space at the top.''': We aren't allowed to hide the crap. Somehow rearrange widgets beside each other?
* '''[[MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation]]''' needs to be updated. See [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Can_sidebar_site_navigation_be_returned_in_a_show/hide_box%3F our options], [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Wiki_Navigation&amp;t=20101024095706].
* '''Navigation sucks''': Lots of cases, e. g. try viewing the article whose talk page you are editing. Basically, the only way to get around is to type in the URL. Can we site-wide customize "my tools"?
* '''Eyestrain''' From the cited WoWWiki page: ''Wikia staff members (ie Sannse) have been deleting ANY post which mentions eyestrain or headaches on the community blogs. There have been several ophthalmologists from Britain who've posted that the skin has caused eyestrain to those who have dominant right eyes, and that the eyestrain could easily cause a headache. All posts were deleted with the reason being "spam".''

===Moving away from Wikia===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia "Should WoWWiki leave Wikia"] is definitely worth a read. Moving is perhaps not yet justified for us. Wikia would keep the old content; at best, we'd get a split in the userbase, and a shadow wiki left behind. http://wikkii.com. I'm sure Wikia will not make any concessions if we threaten. If we're lucky, we can get a copy-paste reply (though much the larger WoWWiki got some screen space). [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:20, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
:That could be handled in two ways: a) Site-wide notification that the nethack wiki has moved, or b) Just mirror the data from the nethack wiki, and resynch every N days or whatever.
:I talked with dtype, and as far as he's concerned, we could run a mediawiki on the alt.org server (and mirror the nethack wiki content there or whatever). The only problem is that I've never set up mediawiki, and I doubt I have the time to do that too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:04, October 30, 2010 (UTC)
::Friendly admin of the [[w:c:d20npcs|d20 NPCs wiki]], here. I recently migrated away from Wikia with the Dungeons and Dragons wiki, and this is one of the only wikis on Wikia I still visit, and I think this content is perfect for the wiki environment, and am saddened by Wikia's insistence on moving towards a more "social networking" model. I am very familiar with MediaWiki as a wiki engine, and would be glad to help get this wiki set up with a new home, if it helps break away from Wikia. --&lt;span style="font-variant:small-caps"&gt;[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]]&lt;/span&gt;☇([[w:c:d20npcs:User Talk:MidnightLightning|talk]]) 04:27, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
::If help is needed, I also have a bit of MediaWiki experience I could contribute. (I'm [[mw:User:Ilmari Karonen|User:Ilmari Karonen]] at mediawiki.org.) --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:37, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
:A pragmatic solution for the visual pain is to install the add-on [http://userstyles.org/stylish Stylish] and using [http://userstyles.org/styles/39199 this stylesheet] for NethackWiki. That doesn't fix the underlying problems but your eyes will thank you nevertheless. --[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 17:22, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
[[Category:NethackWiki]]
:: Edit: the old heading said "impractical: Moving away from wikia" because I didn't want to raise undue attention. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 10:56, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
:Seems like this would be a lot of work, but this would be worth it in the end. Wikia has gone downhill fast in the past couple of years, with the slow page loadtimes, annoying adds, and wonky user interface changes. I would love to have a simple, clean, and fast wiki back for nethack :) I would also volunteer to help if needed. [[User:Spazm|Spazm]] 22:17, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

Similar discussions in other wikis: [[w:c:gta:Oasis|Grand Theft Auto]], [http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia WoWWiki], [[w:c:community:Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance|Anti-Wikia_Alliance]], [http://tech.slashdot.org/story/07/09/15/0327236/How-to-Stop-Commerial-Use-of-Copyleft-Materials Slashdot about preventing Wikia from using the wiki contents], [http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:We%27re_Moving Dungeons&amp;Dragons], [http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/User_talk:Surgo outcome] [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:50, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

===Outcome of the vote===
NetHackWiki is moving away from Wikia. '''Http://nethackwiki.com''' will point to the new wiki as soon as possible. It currently redirects here, so you can already update your bookmarks.

{| class="wikitable"
!Option!!Votes!!Percentage
|-
|Move||157||72%
|-
|Stay||42||19%
|-
|Undecided||19||9%
|-
|Total||218||100%
|}
&lt;!--Vote until Sunday, 24:00h CET = 6:00pm Eastern = 3:00pm Pacific time.&lt;br&gt;
&lt;poll&gt; 
Should NetHackWiki move away from Wikia?
Yes
No
Undecided
&lt;/poll&gt;--&gt;</text>
      <sha1>005isikl5lzssccnrj8d300s2i61j8e</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53522</id>
      <parentid>53521</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-08T02:43:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Outcome of the vote */ s/nethack.wikia.com/nethackwiki.com/</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="47832">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on NethackWiki right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the NethackWiki entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on NethackWiki and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on NethackWiki, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across NethackWiki.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official NethackWiki template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of NethackWiki about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme|If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes NethackWiki, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to NethackWiki? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more NethackWiki-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on NethackWiki is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on NethackWiki.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into NethackWiki. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting Nethack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on NethackWiki. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined NethackWiki and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out NethackWiki's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:I had a somewhat similar idea, except the template would hold the content in addition to the formatting (which is a bit ambitious, I have to admit, and why I never got around to making the template). A formatting template is a better idea and easier to implement. I should be able to make it in the next few days or so. Though may I ask for a shorter name such as "Encyclopedia"? —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:: I like self-documenting names. How about EncyclopediaFormat? On a second thought, a newbie is probably smart enough to figure out what Encyclopedia does. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

== New skin ==

I've used the monaco skin to create a NethackWiki styled skin - just copy and paste [[User:Zapwire/monaco.css]] to [[special:MyPage/monaco.css]], clear cache, enjoy. Suggestions are welcome. --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 13:43, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

== Monster pronunciation ==

Some people have difficultly saying monster names. Maybe we could include pronunciations for things? --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 16:47, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

: What exactly do you have in mind? .mp3 files spoken by the DevTeam? By native speakers? A transcription in [[wikipedia:IPA|IPA]] alphabet? (Who understands IPA anyway?) -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:27, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

==New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks ==
===What the proposed move means in practise===
New address: http://nethackwiki.com
* More Nethack content on your screen.
** Less clutter, ads, and javascript.
** [http://gtmetrix.com/compare/lCChfItL/iRME7p42 Faster loading time].
** Wikipedia-style skin.
* Hosted on the same server as NAO.
** backed by [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Paxed Paxed], [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Tjr Tjr], and the other active wiki admins
* Keep your old account, password, and edits
** Just log in with your wikia credentials if you have already edited here
** No unified login across wikia for new editors
* Almost all Wikia features keep working
** Rich text editor works, but not social network stuff, facebook, blogs.
* Ghost town at the old site, and Wikia will try to split the community
** Most incoming links already point to http://nethackwiki.com. That redirects here for now.
** Once Google ranks us above the old place, it will dry up. Expect [http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#I.27ve_experienced_a_major_project-fork_move_before.2C_so_here.27s_my_thoughts 1-3 months].
* Respect for you, the Nethack community.
** Prediction: Wikia will become more and more abusive in the future.

===Summary of the problems===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#Important_changes_with_the_new_skin WoWWiki discusses problems] we alse have. Especially bad is the wasted screen space. Wiki functionality navigation and social-network-ization come second.

===What we can't do===
From the [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Important_Updates_on_Wikia%E2%80%99s_New_Look staff blog]:

:''In keeping with the goals of the new look, our [[w:c:wikia:Terms_Of_Use|Terms of Use]] have been updated as well. Admins will no longer be able to completely remove core features for all users by using custom CSS or JavaScript. This is to protect the universal layout and functionality of every wiki on Wikia and ensure that users have access to all of the features available in the new design. Remember, these [[Help:Customization_policy |new terms]] only apply to the CSS of the wiki as a whole -- they don’t apply to your personal pages.''
:''To give a few practical examples of what this means: It’s not permitted to remove the right sidebar modules, blogs, and image attribution or add a banner that shifts the entire content area down the page, or alter the fixed width. You can still personalize your wiki with different colors and themes, add large, standout images to the wiki background, create styled templates and tables within the content area. ...''

===Ideas and solutions===
Wikia has a very poor track record of fixing things, so we are on our own. [[User:Paxed|Paxed]] has already clawed back a lot of wasted space and changed the unreadable color for text.

* '''Image attribution''': [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Is_there_a_way_to_remove_%22added_by%22_from_thumbnails%3F&amp;t=20101028155200 a solution] iff permitted
* '''A new logo''': I think our logo should be less tall, wider, should read "Nethack" instead of "Wikia", and it should have a similar graphical theme as the old one to help brand recognition. Perhaps parts could be made clickable to hack in a make-shift navbar.
* '''Wasted vertical space at the top.''': We aren't allowed to hide the crap. Somehow rearrange widgets beside each other?
* '''[[MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation]]''' needs to be updated. See [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Can_sidebar_site_navigation_be_returned_in_a_show/hide_box%3F our options], [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Wiki_Navigation&amp;t=20101024095706].
* '''Navigation sucks''': Lots of cases, e. g. try viewing the article whose talk page you are editing. Basically, the only way to get around is to type in the URL. Can we site-wide customize "my tools"?
* '''Eyestrain''' From the cited WoWWiki page: ''Wikia staff members (ie Sannse) have been deleting ANY post which mentions eyestrain or headaches on the community blogs. There have been several ophthalmologists from Britain who've posted that the skin has caused eyestrain to those who have dominant right eyes, and that the eyestrain could easily cause a headache. All posts were deleted with the reason being "spam".''

===Moving away from Wikia===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia "Should WoWWiki leave Wikia"] is definitely worth a read. Moving is perhaps not yet justified for us. Wikia would keep the old content; at best, we'd get a split in the userbase, and a shadow wiki left behind. http://wikkii.com. I'm sure Wikia will not make any concessions if we threaten. If we're lucky, we can get a copy-paste reply (though much the larger WoWWiki got some screen space). [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:20, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
:That could be handled in two ways: a) Site-wide notification that the nethack wiki has moved, or b) Just mirror the data from the nethack wiki, and resynch every N days or whatever.
:I talked with dtype, and as far as he's concerned, we could run a mediawiki on the alt.org server (and mirror the nethack wiki content there or whatever). The only problem is that I've never set up mediawiki, and I doubt I have the time to do that too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:04, October 30, 2010 (UTC)
::Friendly admin of the [[w:c:d20npcs|d20 NPCs wiki]], here. I recently migrated away from Wikia with the Dungeons and Dragons wiki, and this is one of the only wikis on Wikia I still visit, and I think this content is perfect for the wiki environment, and am saddened by Wikia's insistence on moving towards a more "social networking" model. I am very familiar with MediaWiki as a wiki engine, and would be glad to help get this wiki set up with a new home, if it helps break away from Wikia. --&lt;span style="font-variant:small-caps"&gt;[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]]&lt;/span&gt;☇([[w:c:d20npcs:User Talk:MidnightLightning|talk]]) 04:27, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
::If help is needed, I also have a bit of MediaWiki experience I could contribute. (I'm [[mw:User:Ilmari Karonen|User:Ilmari Karonen]] at mediawiki.org.) --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:37, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
:A pragmatic solution for the visual pain is to install the add-on [http://userstyles.org/stylish Stylish] and using [http://userstyles.org/styles/39199 this stylesheet] for NethackWiki. That doesn't fix the underlying problems but your eyes will thank you nevertheless. --[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 17:22, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
[[Category:NethackWiki]]
:: Edit: the old heading said "impractical: Moving away from wikia" because I didn't want to raise undue attention. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 10:56, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
:Seems like this would be a lot of work, but this would be worth it in the end. Wikia has gone downhill fast in the past couple of years, with the slow page loadtimes, annoying adds, and wonky user interface changes. I would love to have a simple, clean, and fast wiki back for nethack :) I would also volunteer to help if needed. [[User:Spazm|Spazm]] 22:17, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

Similar discussions in other wikis: [[w:c:gta:Oasis|Grand Theft Auto]], [http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia WoWWiki], [[w:c:community:Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance|Anti-Wikia_Alliance]], [http://tech.slashdot.org/story/07/09/15/0327236/How-to-Stop-Commerial-Use-of-Copyleft-Materials Slashdot about preventing Wikia from using the wiki contents], [http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:We%27re_Moving Dungeons&amp;Dragons], [http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/User_talk:Surgo outcome] [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:50, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

===Outcome of the vote===
NetHackWiki is moving away from Wikia. '''Http://nethackwiki.com''' will point to the new wiki as soon as possible. It currently redirects here, so you can already update your bookmarks. (For Perl fans, s/nethack.wikia.com/nethackwiki.com/ is enough.)

{| class="wikitable"
!Option!!Votes!!Percentage
|-
|Move||157||72%
|-
|Stay||42||19%
|-
|Undecided||19||9%
|-
|Total||218||100%
|}
&lt;!--Vote until Sunday, 24:00h CET = 6:00pm Eastern = 3:00pm Pacific time.&lt;br&gt;
&lt;poll&gt; 
Should NetHackWiki move away from Wikia?
Yes
No
Undecided
&lt;/poll&gt;--&gt;</text>
      <sha1>s3iu0t5j2l354rdqxok5isehqjsznyd</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53614</id>
      <parentid>53522</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T01:08:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Watchlists missing on new wiki */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="48613">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on NethackWiki right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the NethackWiki entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on NethackWiki and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on NethackWiki, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across NethackWiki.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official NethackWiki template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of NethackWiki about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme|If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes NethackWiki, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to NethackWiki? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more NethackWiki-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on NethackWiki is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on NethackWiki.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into NethackWiki. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting Nethack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on NethackWiki. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined NethackWiki and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out NethackWiki's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:I had a somewhat similar idea, except the template would hold the content in addition to the formatting (which is a bit ambitious, I have to admit, and why I never got around to making the template). A formatting template is a better idea and easier to implement. I should be able to make it in the next few days or so. Though may I ask for a shorter name such as "Encyclopedia"? —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:: I like self-documenting names. How about EncyclopediaFormat? On a second thought, a newbie is probably smart enough to figure out what Encyclopedia does. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

== New skin ==

I've used the monaco skin to create a NethackWiki styled skin - just copy and paste [[User:Zapwire/monaco.css]] to [[special:MyPage/monaco.css]], clear cache, enjoy. Suggestions are welcome. --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 13:43, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

== Monster pronunciation ==

Some people have difficultly saying monster names. Maybe we could include pronunciations for things? --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 16:47, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

: What exactly do you have in mind? .mp3 files spoken by the DevTeam? By native speakers? A transcription in [[wikipedia:IPA|IPA]] alphabet? (Who understands IPA anyway?) -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:27, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

==New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks ==
===What the proposed move means in practise===
New address: http://nethackwiki.com
* More Nethack content on your screen.
** Less clutter, ads, and javascript.
** [http://gtmetrix.com/compare/lCChfItL/iRME7p42 Faster loading time].
** Wikipedia-style skin.
* Hosted on the same server as NAO.
** backed by [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Paxed Paxed], [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Tjr Tjr], and the other active wiki admins
* Keep your old account, password, and edits
** Just log in with your wikia credentials if you have already edited here
** No unified login across wikia for new editors
* Almost all Wikia features keep working
** Rich text editor works, but not social network stuff, facebook, blogs.
* Ghost town at the old site, and Wikia will try to split the community
** Most incoming links already point to http://nethackwiki.com. That redirects here for now.
** Once Google ranks us above the old place, it will dry up. Expect [http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#I.27ve_experienced_a_major_project-fork_move_before.2C_so_here.27s_my_thoughts 1-3 months].
* Respect for you, the Nethack community.
** Prediction: Wikia will become more and more abusive in the future.

===Summary of the problems===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#Important_changes_with_the_new_skin WoWWiki discusses problems] we alse have. Especially bad is the wasted screen space. Wiki functionality navigation and social-network-ization come second.

===What we can't do===
From the [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Important_Updates_on_Wikia%E2%80%99s_New_Look staff blog]:

:''In keeping with the goals of the new look, our [[w:c:wikia:Terms_Of_Use|Terms of Use]] have been updated as well. Admins will no longer be able to completely remove core features for all users by using custom CSS or JavaScript. This is to protect the universal layout and functionality of every wiki on Wikia and ensure that users have access to all of the features available in the new design. Remember, these [[Help:Customization_policy |new terms]] only apply to the CSS of the wiki as a whole -- they don’t apply to your personal pages.''
:''To give a few practical examples of what this means: It’s not permitted to remove the right sidebar modules, blogs, and image attribution or add a banner that shifts the entire content area down the page, or alter the fixed width. You can still personalize your wiki with different colors and themes, add large, standout images to the wiki background, create styled templates and tables within the content area. ...''

===Ideas and solutions===
Wikia has a very poor track record of fixing things, so we are on our own. [[User:Paxed|Paxed]] has already clawed back a lot of wasted space and changed the unreadable color for text.

* '''Image attribution''': [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Is_there_a_way_to_remove_%22added_by%22_from_thumbnails%3F&amp;t=20101028155200 a solution] iff permitted
* '''A new logo''': I think our logo should be less tall, wider, should read "Nethack" instead of "Wikia", and it should have a similar graphical theme as the old one to help brand recognition. Perhaps parts could be made clickable to hack in a make-shift navbar.
* '''Wasted vertical space at the top.''': We aren't allowed to hide the crap. Somehow rearrange widgets beside each other?
* '''[[MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation]]''' needs to be updated. See [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Can_sidebar_site_navigation_be_returned_in_a_show/hide_box%3F our options], [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Wiki_Navigation&amp;t=20101024095706].
* '''Navigation sucks''': Lots of cases, e. g. try viewing the article whose talk page you are editing. Basically, the only way to get around is to type in the URL. Can we site-wide customize "my tools"?
* '''Eyestrain''' From the cited WoWWiki page: ''Wikia staff members (ie Sannse) have been deleting ANY post which mentions eyestrain or headaches on the community blogs. There have been several ophthalmologists from Britain who've posted that the skin has caused eyestrain to those who have dominant right eyes, and that the eyestrain could easily cause a headache. All posts were deleted with the reason being "spam".''

===Moving away from Wikia===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia "Should WoWWiki leave Wikia"] is definitely worth a read. Moving is perhaps not yet justified for us. Wikia would keep the old content; at best, we'd get a split in the userbase, and a shadow wiki left behind. http://wikkii.com. I'm sure Wikia will not make any concessions if we threaten. If we're lucky, we can get a copy-paste reply (though much the larger WoWWiki got some screen space). [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:20, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
:That could be handled in two ways: a) Site-wide notification that the nethack wiki has moved, or b) Just mirror the data from the nethack wiki, and resynch every N days or whatever.
:I talked with dtype, and as far as he's concerned, we could run a mediawiki on the alt.org server (and mirror the nethack wiki content there or whatever). The only problem is that I've never set up mediawiki, and I doubt I have the time to do that too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:04, October 30, 2010 (UTC)
::Friendly admin of the [[w:c:d20npcs|d20 NPCs wiki]], here. I recently migrated away from Wikia with the Dungeons and Dragons wiki, and this is one of the only wikis on Wikia I still visit, and I think this content is perfect for the wiki environment, and am saddened by Wikia's insistence on moving towards a more "social networking" model. I am very familiar with MediaWiki as a wiki engine, and would be glad to help get this wiki set up with a new home, if it helps break away from Wikia. --&lt;span style="font-variant:small-caps"&gt;[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]]&lt;/span&gt;☇([[w:c:d20npcs:User Talk:MidnightLightning|talk]]) 04:27, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
::If help is needed, I also have a bit of MediaWiki experience I could contribute. (I'm [[mw:User:Ilmari Karonen|User:Ilmari Karonen]] at mediawiki.org.) --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:37, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
:A pragmatic solution for the visual pain is to install the add-on [http://userstyles.org/stylish Stylish] and using [http://userstyles.org/styles/39199 this stylesheet] for NethackWiki. That doesn't fix the underlying problems but your eyes will thank you nevertheless. --[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 17:22, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
[[Category:NethackWiki]]
:: Edit: the old heading said "impractical: Moving away from wikia" because I didn't want to raise undue attention. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 10:56, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
:Seems like this would be a lot of work, but this would be worth it in the end. Wikia has gone downhill fast in the past couple of years, with the slow page loadtimes, annoying adds, and wonky user interface changes. I would love to have a simple, clean, and fast wiki back for nethack :) I would also volunteer to help if needed. [[User:Spazm|Spazm]] 22:17, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

Similar discussions in other wikis: [[w:c:gta:Oasis|Grand Theft Auto]], [http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia WoWWiki], [[w:c:community:Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance|Anti-Wikia_Alliance]], [http://tech.slashdot.org/story/07/09/15/0327236/How-to-Stop-Commerial-Use-of-Copyleft-Materials Slashdot about preventing Wikia from using the wiki contents], [http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:We%27re_Moving Dungeons&amp;Dragons], [http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/User_talk:Surgo outcome] [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:50, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

===Outcome of the vote===
NetHackWiki is moving away from Wikia. '''Http://nethackwiki.com''' will point to the new wiki as soon as possible. It currently redirects here, so you can already update your bookmarks. (For Perl fans, s/nethack.wikia.com/nethackwiki.com/ is enough.)

{| class="wikitable"
!Option!!Votes!!Percentage
|-
|Move||157||72%
|-
|Stay||42||19%
|-
|Undecided||19||9%
|-
|Total||218||100%
|}
&lt;!--Vote until Sunday, 24:00h CET = 6:00pm Eastern = 3:00pm Pacific time.&lt;br&gt;
&lt;poll&gt; 
Should NetHackWiki move away from Wikia?
Yes
No
Undecided
&lt;/poll&gt;--&gt;

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>2mopm0kb95owhnslsvdr8u69efjys6v</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53615</id>
      <parentid>53614</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T01:18:01Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Watchlists missing on new wiki */ looks like user preferences don't get imported either</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="48885">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on NethackWiki right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the NethackWiki entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on NethackWiki and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on NethackWiki, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across NethackWiki.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official NethackWiki template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of NethackWiki about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme|If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes NethackWiki, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to NethackWiki? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more NethackWiki-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on NethackWiki is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on NethackWiki.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into NethackWiki. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting Nethack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on NethackWiki. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined NethackWiki and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out NethackWiki's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:I had a somewhat similar idea, except the template would hold the content in addition to the formatting (which is a bit ambitious, I have to admit, and why I never got around to making the template). A formatting template is a better idea and easier to implement. I should be able to make it in the next few days or so. Though may I ask for a shorter name such as "Encyclopedia"? —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:: I like self-documenting names. How about EncyclopediaFormat? On a second thought, a newbie is probably smart enough to figure out what Encyclopedia does. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

== New skin ==

I've used the monaco skin to create a NethackWiki styled skin - just copy and paste [[User:Zapwire/monaco.css]] to [[special:MyPage/monaco.css]], clear cache, enjoy. Suggestions are welcome. --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 13:43, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

== Monster pronunciation ==

Some people have difficultly saying monster names. Maybe we could include pronunciations for things? --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 16:47, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

: What exactly do you have in mind? .mp3 files spoken by the DevTeam? By native speakers? A transcription in [[wikipedia:IPA|IPA]] alphabet? (Who understands IPA anyway?) -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:27, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

==New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks ==
===What the proposed move means in practise===
New address: http://nethackwiki.com
* More Nethack content on your screen.
** Less clutter, ads, and javascript.
** [http://gtmetrix.com/compare/lCChfItL/iRME7p42 Faster loading time].
** Wikipedia-style skin.
* Hosted on the same server as NAO.
** backed by [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Paxed Paxed], [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Tjr Tjr], and the other active wiki admins
* Keep your old account, password, and edits
** Just log in with your wikia credentials if you have already edited here
** No unified login across wikia for new editors
* Almost all Wikia features keep working
** Rich text editor works, but not social network stuff, facebook, blogs.
* Ghost town at the old site, and Wikia will try to split the community
** Most incoming links already point to http://nethackwiki.com. That redirects here for now.
** Once Google ranks us above the old place, it will dry up. Expect [http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#I.27ve_experienced_a_major_project-fork_move_before.2C_so_here.27s_my_thoughts 1-3 months].
* Respect for you, the Nethack community.
** Prediction: Wikia will become more and more abusive in the future.

===Summary of the problems===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#Important_changes_with_the_new_skin WoWWiki discusses problems] we alse have. Especially bad is the wasted screen space. Wiki functionality navigation and social-network-ization come second.

===What we can't do===
From the [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Important_Updates_on_Wikia%E2%80%99s_New_Look staff blog]:

:''In keeping with the goals of the new look, our [[w:c:wikia:Terms_Of_Use|Terms of Use]] have been updated as well. Admins will no longer be able to completely remove core features for all users by using custom CSS or JavaScript. This is to protect the universal layout and functionality of every wiki on Wikia and ensure that users have access to all of the features available in the new design. Remember, these [[Help:Customization_policy |new terms]] only apply to the CSS of the wiki as a whole -- they don’t apply to your personal pages.''
:''To give a few practical examples of what this means: It’s not permitted to remove the right sidebar modules, blogs, and image attribution or add a banner that shifts the entire content area down the page, or alter the fixed width. You can still personalize your wiki with different colors and themes, add large, standout images to the wiki background, create styled templates and tables within the content area. ...''

===Ideas and solutions===
Wikia has a very poor track record of fixing things, so we are on our own. [[User:Paxed|Paxed]] has already clawed back a lot of wasted space and changed the unreadable color for text.

* '''Image attribution''': [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Is_there_a_way_to_remove_%22added_by%22_from_thumbnails%3F&amp;t=20101028155200 a solution] iff permitted
* '''A new logo''': I think our logo should be less tall, wider, should read "Nethack" instead of "Wikia", and it should have a similar graphical theme as the old one to help brand recognition. Perhaps parts could be made clickable to hack in a make-shift navbar.
* '''Wasted vertical space at the top.''': We aren't allowed to hide the crap. Somehow rearrange widgets beside each other?
* '''[[MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation]]''' needs to be updated. See [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Can_sidebar_site_navigation_be_returned_in_a_show/hide_box%3F our options], [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Wiki_Navigation&amp;t=20101024095706].
* '''Navigation sucks''': Lots of cases, e. g. try viewing the article whose talk page you are editing. Basically, the only way to get around is to type in the URL. Can we site-wide customize "my tools"?
* '''Eyestrain''' From the cited WoWWiki page: ''Wikia staff members (ie Sannse) have been deleting ANY post which mentions eyestrain or headaches on the community blogs. There have been several ophthalmologists from Britain who've posted that the skin has caused eyestrain to those who have dominant right eyes, and that the eyestrain could easily cause a headache. All posts were deleted with the reason being "spam".''

===Moving away from Wikia===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia "Should WoWWiki leave Wikia"] is definitely worth a read. Moving is perhaps not yet justified for us. Wikia would keep the old content; at best, we'd get a split in the userbase, and a shadow wiki left behind. http://wikkii.com. I'm sure Wikia will not make any concessions if we threaten. If we're lucky, we can get a copy-paste reply (though much the larger WoWWiki got some screen space). [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:20, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
:That could be handled in two ways: a) Site-wide notification that the nethack wiki has moved, or b) Just mirror the data from the nethack wiki, and resynch every N days or whatever.
:I talked with dtype, and as far as he's concerned, we could run a mediawiki on the alt.org server (and mirror the nethack wiki content there or whatever). The only problem is that I've never set up mediawiki, and I doubt I have the time to do that too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:04, October 30, 2010 (UTC)
::Friendly admin of the [[w:c:d20npcs|d20 NPCs wiki]], here. I recently migrated away from Wikia with the Dungeons and Dragons wiki, and this is one of the only wikis on Wikia I still visit, and I think this content is perfect for the wiki environment, and am saddened by Wikia's insistence on moving towards a more "social networking" model. I am very familiar with MediaWiki as a wiki engine, and would be glad to help get this wiki set up with a new home, if it helps break away from Wikia. --&lt;span style="font-variant:small-caps"&gt;[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]]&lt;/span&gt;☇([[w:c:d20npcs:User Talk:MidnightLightning|talk]]) 04:27, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
::If help is needed, I also have a bit of MediaWiki experience I could contribute. (I'm [[mw:User:Ilmari Karonen|User:Ilmari Karonen]] at mediawiki.org.) --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:37, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
:A pragmatic solution for the visual pain is to install the add-on [http://userstyles.org/stylish Stylish] and using [http://userstyles.org/styles/39199 this stylesheet] for NethackWiki. That doesn't fix the underlying problems but your eyes will thank you nevertheless. --[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 17:22, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
[[Category:NethackWiki]]
:: Edit: the old heading said "impractical: Moving away from wikia" because I didn't want to raise undue attention. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 10:56, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
:Seems like this would be a lot of work, but this would be worth it in the end. Wikia has gone downhill fast in the past couple of years, with the slow page loadtimes, annoying adds, and wonky user interface changes. I would love to have a simple, clean, and fast wiki back for nethack :) I would also volunteer to help if needed. [[User:Spazm|Spazm]] 22:17, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

Similar discussions in other wikis: [[w:c:gta:Oasis|Grand Theft Auto]], [http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia WoWWiki], [[w:c:community:Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance|Anti-Wikia_Alliance]], [http://tech.slashdot.org/story/07/09/15/0327236/How-to-Stop-Commerial-Use-of-Copyleft-Materials Slashdot about preventing Wikia from using the wiki contents], [http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:We%27re_Moving Dungeons&amp;Dragons], [http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/User_talk:Surgo outcome] [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:50, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

===Outcome of the vote===
NetHackWiki is moving away from Wikia. '''Http://nethackwiki.com''' will point to the new wiki as soon as possible. It currently redirects here, so you can already update your bookmarks. (For Perl fans, s/nethack.wikia.com/nethackwiki.com/ is enough.)

{| class="wikitable"
!Option!!Votes!!Percentage
|-
|Move||157||72%
|-
|Stay||42||19%
|-
|Undecided||19||9%
|-
|Total||218||100%
|}
&lt;!--Vote until Sunday, 24:00h CET = 6:00pm Eastern = 3:00pm Pacific time.&lt;br&gt;
&lt;poll&gt; 
Should NetHackWiki move away from Wikia?
Yes
No
Undecided
&lt;/poll&gt;--&gt;

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ciq8nucbwo54fy136hz3vlgrom27ui5</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53683</id>
      <parentid>53615</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T02:12:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* We need a new logo */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="49495">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on NethackWiki right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the NethackWiki entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on NethackWiki and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on NethackWiki, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across NethackWiki.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official NethackWiki template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of NethackWiki about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme|If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes NethackWiki, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to NethackWiki? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more NethackWiki-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on NethackWiki is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on NethackWiki.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into NethackWiki. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting Nethack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on NethackWiki. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined NethackWiki and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out NethackWiki's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:I had a somewhat similar idea, except the template would hold the content in addition to the formatting (which is a bit ambitious, I have to admit, and why I never got around to making the template). A formatting template is a better idea and easier to implement. I should be able to make it in the next few days or so. Though may I ask for a shorter name such as "Encyclopedia"? —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:: I like self-documenting names. How about EncyclopediaFormat? On a second thought, a newbie is probably smart enough to figure out what Encyclopedia does. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

== New skin ==

I've used the monaco skin to create a NethackWiki styled skin - just copy and paste [[User:Zapwire/monaco.css]] to [[special:MyPage/monaco.css]], clear cache, enjoy. Suggestions are welcome. --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 13:43, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

== Monster pronunciation ==

Some people have difficultly saying monster names. Maybe we could include pronunciations for things? --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 16:47, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

: What exactly do you have in mind? .mp3 files spoken by the DevTeam? By native speakers? A transcription in [[wikipedia:IPA|IPA]] alphabet? (Who understands IPA anyway?) -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:27, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

==New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks ==
===What the proposed move means in practise===
New address: http://nethackwiki.com
* More Nethack content on your screen.
** Less clutter, ads, and javascript.
** [http://gtmetrix.com/compare/lCChfItL/iRME7p42 Faster loading time].
** Wikipedia-style skin.
* Hosted on the same server as NAO.
** backed by [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Paxed Paxed], [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Tjr Tjr], and the other active wiki admins
* Keep your old account, password, and edits
** Just log in with your wikia credentials if you have already edited here
** No unified login across wikia for new editors
* Almost all Wikia features keep working
** Rich text editor works, but not social network stuff, facebook, blogs.
* Ghost town at the old site, and Wikia will try to split the community
** Most incoming links already point to http://nethackwiki.com. That redirects here for now.
** Once Google ranks us above the old place, it will dry up. Expect [http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#I.27ve_experienced_a_major_project-fork_move_before.2C_so_here.27s_my_thoughts 1-3 months].
* Respect for you, the Nethack community.
** Prediction: Wikia will become more and more abusive in the future.

===Summary of the problems===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#Important_changes_with_the_new_skin WoWWiki discusses problems] we alse have. Especially bad is the wasted screen space. Wiki functionality navigation and social-network-ization come second.

===What we can't do===
From the [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Important_Updates_on_Wikia%E2%80%99s_New_Look staff blog]:

:''In keeping with the goals of the new look, our [[w:c:wikia:Terms_Of_Use|Terms of Use]] have been updated as well. Admins will no longer be able to completely remove core features for all users by using custom CSS or JavaScript. This is to protect the universal layout and functionality of every wiki on Wikia and ensure that users have access to all of the features available in the new design. Remember, these [[Help:Customization_policy |new terms]] only apply to the CSS of the wiki as a whole -- they don’t apply to your personal pages.''
:''To give a few practical examples of what this means: It’s not permitted to remove the right sidebar modules, blogs, and image attribution or add a banner that shifts the entire content area down the page, or alter the fixed width. You can still personalize your wiki with different colors and themes, add large, standout images to the wiki background, create styled templates and tables within the content area. ...''

===Ideas and solutions===
Wikia has a very poor track record of fixing things, so we are on our own. [[User:Paxed|Paxed]] has already clawed back a lot of wasted space and changed the unreadable color for text.

* '''Image attribution''': [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Is_there_a_way_to_remove_%22added_by%22_from_thumbnails%3F&amp;t=20101028155200 a solution] iff permitted
* '''A new logo''': I think our logo should be less tall, wider, should read "Nethack" instead of "Wikia", and it should have a similar graphical theme as the old one to help brand recognition. Perhaps parts could be made clickable to hack in a make-shift navbar.
* '''Wasted vertical space at the top.''': We aren't allowed to hide the crap. Somehow rearrange widgets beside each other?
* '''[[MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation]]''' needs to be updated. See [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Can_sidebar_site_navigation_be_returned_in_a_show/hide_box%3F our options], [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Wiki_Navigation&amp;t=20101024095706].
* '''Navigation sucks''': Lots of cases, e. g. try viewing the article whose talk page you are editing. Basically, the only way to get around is to type in the URL. Can we site-wide customize "my tools"?
* '''Eyestrain''' From the cited WoWWiki page: ''Wikia staff members (ie Sannse) have been deleting ANY post which mentions eyestrain or headaches on the community blogs. There have been several ophthalmologists from Britain who've posted that the skin has caused eyestrain to those who have dominant right eyes, and that the eyestrain could easily cause a headache. All posts were deleted with the reason being "spam".''

===Moving away from Wikia===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia "Should WoWWiki leave Wikia"] is definitely worth a read. Moving is perhaps not yet justified for us. Wikia would keep the old content; at best, we'd get a split in the userbase, and a shadow wiki left behind. http://wikkii.com. I'm sure Wikia will not make any concessions if we threaten. If we're lucky, we can get a copy-paste reply (though much the larger WoWWiki got some screen space). [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:20, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
:That could be handled in two ways: a) Site-wide notification that the nethack wiki has moved, or b) Just mirror the data from the nethack wiki, and resynch every N days or whatever.
:I talked with dtype, and as far as he's concerned, we could run a mediawiki on the alt.org server (and mirror the nethack wiki content there or whatever). The only problem is that I've never set up mediawiki, and I doubt I have the time to do that too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:04, October 30, 2010 (UTC)
::Friendly admin of the [[w:c:d20npcs|d20 NPCs wiki]], here. I recently migrated away from Wikia with the Dungeons and Dragons wiki, and this is one of the only wikis on Wikia I still visit, and I think this content is perfect for the wiki environment, and am saddened by Wikia's insistence on moving towards a more "social networking" model. I am very familiar with MediaWiki as a wiki engine, and would be glad to help get this wiki set up with a new home, if it helps break away from Wikia. --&lt;span style="font-variant:small-caps"&gt;[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]]&lt;/span&gt;☇([[w:c:d20npcs:User Talk:MidnightLightning|talk]]) 04:27, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
::If help is needed, I also have a bit of MediaWiki experience I could contribute. (I'm [[mw:User:Ilmari Karonen|User:Ilmari Karonen]] at mediawiki.org.) --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:37, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
:A pragmatic solution for the visual pain is to install the add-on [http://userstyles.org/stylish Stylish] and using [http://userstyles.org/styles/39199 this stylesheet] for NethackWiki. That doesn't fix the underlying problems but your eyes will thank you nevertheless. --[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 17:22, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
[[Category:NethackWiki]]
:: Edit: the old heading said "impractical: Moving away from wikia" because I didn't want to raise undue attention. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 10:56, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
:Seems like this would be a lot of work, but this would be worth it in the end. Wikia has gone downhill fast in the past couple of years, with the slow page loadtimes, annoying adds, and wonky user interface changes. I would love to have a simple, clean, and fast wiki back for nethack :) I would also volunteer to help if needed. [[User:Spazm|Spazm]] 22:17, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

Similar discussions in other wikis: [[w:c:gta:Oasis|Grand Theft Auto]], [http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia WoWWiki], [[w:c:community:Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance|Anti-Wikia_Alliance]], [http://tech.slashdot.org/story/07/09/15/0327236/How-to-Stop-Commerial-Use-of-Copyleft-Materials Slashdot about preventing Wikia from using the wiki contents], [http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:We%27re_Moving Dungeons&amp;Dragons], [http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/User_talk:Surgo outcome] [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:50, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

===Outcome of the vote===
NetHackWiki is moving away from Wikia. '''Http://nethackwiki.com''' will point to the new wiki as soon as possible. It currently redirects here, so you can already update your bookmarks. (For Perl fans, s/nethack.wikia.com/nethackwiki.com/ is enough.)

{| class="wikitable"
!Option!!Votes!!Percentage
|-
|Move||157||72%
|-
|Stay||42||19%
|-
|Undecided||19||9%
|-
|Total||218||100%
|}
&lt;!--Vote until Sunday, 24:00h CET = 6:00pm Eastern = 3:00pm Pacific time.&lt;br&gt;
&lt;poll&gt; 
Should NetHackWiki move away from Wikia?
Yes
No
Undecided
&lt;/poll&gt;--&gt;

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>clhj7337w4m43dl8lxgmdgq9k5ovhgx</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53724</id>
      <parentid>53683</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T07:12:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="50135">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on NethackWiki right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the NethackWiki entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on NethackWiki and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on NethackWiki, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across NethackWiki.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official NethackWiki template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of NethackWiki about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme|If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes NethackWiki, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to NethackWiki? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more NethackWiki-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on NethackWiki is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on NethackWiki.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into NethackWiki. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting Nethack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on NethackWiki. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined NethackWiki and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out NethackWiki's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:I had a somewhat similar idea, except the template would hold the content in addition to the formatting (which is a bit ambitious, I have to admit, and why I never got around to making the template). A formatting template is a better idea and easier to implement. I should be able to make it in the next few days or so. Though may I ask for a shorter name such as "Encyclopedia"? —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:: I like self-documenting names. How about EncyclopediaFormat? On a second thought, a newbie is probably smart enough to figure out what Encyclopedia does. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

== New skin ==

I've used the monaco skin to create a NethackWiki styled skin - just copy and paste [[User:Zapwire/monaco.css]] to [[special:MyPage/monaco.css]], clear cache, enjoy. Suggestions are welcome. --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 13:43, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

== Monster pronunciation ==

Some people have difficultly saying monster names. Maybe we could include pronunciations for things? --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 16:47, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

: What exactly do you have in mind? .mp3 files spoken by the DevTeam? By native speakers? A transcription in [[wikipedia:IPA|IPA]] alphabet? (Who understands IPA anyway?) -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:27, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

==New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks ==
===What the proposed move means in practise===
New address: http://nethackwiki.com
* More Nethack content on your screen.
** Less clutter, ads, and javascript.
** [http://gtmetrix.com/compare/lCChfItL/iRME7p42 Faster loading time].
** Wikipedia-style skin.
* Hosted on the same server as NAO.
** backed by [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Paxed Paxed], [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Tjr Tjr], and the other active wiki admins
* Keep your old account, password, and edits
** Just log in with your wikia credentials if you have already edited here
** No unified login across wikia for new editors
* Almost all Wikia features keep working
** Rich text editor works, but not social network stuff, facebook, blogs.
* Ghost town at the old site, and Wikia will try to split the community
** Most incoming links already point to http://nethackwiki.com. That redirects here for now.
** Once Google ranks us above the old place, it will dry up. Expect [http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#I.27ve_experienced_a_major_project-fork_move_before.2C_so_here.27s_my_thoughts 1-3 months].
* Respect for you, the Nethack community.
** Prediction: Wikia will become more and more abusive in the future.

===Summary of the problems===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#Important_changes_with_the_new_skin WoWWiki discusses problems] we alse have. Especially bad is the wasted screen space. Wiki functionality navigation and social-network-ization come second.

===What we can't do===
From the [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Important_Updates_on_Wikia%E2%80%99s_New_Look staff blog]:

:''In keeping with the goals of the new look, our [[w:c:wikia:Terms_Of_Use|Terms of Use]] have been updated as well. Admins will no longer be able to completely remove core features for all users by using custom CSS or JavaScript. This is to protect the universal layout and functionality of every wiki on Wikia and ensure that users have access to all of the features available in the new design. Remember, these [[Help:Customization_policy |new terms]] only apply to the CSS of the wiki as a whole -- they don’t apply to your personal pages.''
:''To give a few practical examples of what this means: It’s not permitted to remove the right sidebar modules, blogs, and image attribution or add a banner that shifts the entire content area down the page, or alter the fixed width. You can still personalize your wiki with different colors and themes, add large, standout images to the wiki background, create styled templates and tables within the content area. ...''

===Ideas and solutions===
Wikia has a very poor track record of fixing things, so we are on our own. [[User:Paxed|Paxed]] has already clawed back a lot of wasted space and changed the unreadable color for text.

* '''Image attribution''': [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Is_there_a_way_to_remove_%22added_by%22_from_thumbnails%3F&amp;t=20101028155200 a solution] iff permitted
* '''A new logo''': I think our logo should be less tall, wider, should read "Nethack" instead of "Wikia", and it should have a similar graphical theme as the old one to help brand recognition. Perhaps parts could be made clickable to hack in a make-shift navbar.
* '''Wasted vertical space at the top.''': We aren't allowed to hide the crap. Somehow rearrange widgets beside each other?
* '''[[MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation]]''' needs to be updated. See [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Can_sidebar_site_navigation_be_returned_in_a_show/hide_box%3F our options], [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Wiki_Navigation&amp;t=20101024095706].
* '''Navigation sucks''': Lots of cases, e. g. try viewing the article whose talk page you are editing. Basically, the only way to get around is to type in the URL. Can we site-wide customize "my tools"?
* '''Eyestrain''' From the cited WoWWiki page: ''Wikia staff members (ie Sannse) have been deleting ANY post which mentions eyestrain or headaches on the community blogs. There have been several ophthalmologists from Britain who've posted that the skin has caused eyestrain to those who have dominant right eyes, and that the eyestrain could easily cause a headache. All posts were deleted with the reason being "spam".''

===Moving away from Wikia===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia "Should WoWWiki leave Wikia"] is definitely worth a read. Moving is perhaps not yet justified for us. Wikia would keep the old content; at best, we'd get a split in the userbase, and a shadow wiki left behind. http://wikkii.com. I'm sure Wikia will not make any concessions if we threaten. If we're lucky, we can get a copy-paste reply (though much the larger WoWWiki got some screen space). [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:20, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
:That could be handled in two ways: a) Site-wide notification that the nethack wiki has moved, or b) Just mirror the data from the nethack wiki, and resynch every N days or whatever.
:I talked with dtype, and as far as he's concerned, we could run a mediawiki on the alt.org server (and mirror the nethack wiki content there or whatever). The only problem is that I've never set up mediawiki, and I doubt I have the time to do that too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:04, October 30, 2010 (UTC)
::Friendly admin of the [[w:c:d20npcs|d20 NPCs wiki]], here. I recently migrated away from Wikia with the Dungeons and Dragons wiki, and this is one of the only wikis on Wikia I still visit, and I think this content is perfect for the wiki environment, and am saddened by Wikia's insistence on moving towards a more "social networking" model. I am very familiar with MediaWiki as a wiki engine, and would be glad to help get this wiki set up with a new home, if it helps break away from Wikia. --&lt;span style="font-variant:small-caps"&gt;[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]]&lt;/span&gt;☇([[w:c:d20npcs:User Talk:MidnightLightning|talk]]) 04:27, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
::If help is needed, I also have a bit of MediaWiki experience I could contribute. (I'm [[mw:User:Ilmari Karonen|User:Ilmari Karonen]] at mediawiki.org.) --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:37, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
:A pragmatic solution for the visual pain is to install the add-on [http://userstyles.org/stylish Stylish] and using [http://userstyles.org/styles/39199 this stylesheet] for NethackWiki. That doesn't fix the underlying problems but your eyes will thank you nevertheless. --[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 17:22, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
[[Category:NethackWiki]]
:: Edit: the old heading said "impractical: Moving away from wikia" because I didn't want to raise undue attention. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 10:56, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
:Seems like this would be a lot of work, but this would be worth it in the end. Wikia has gone downhill fast in the past couple of years, with the slow page loadtimes, annoying adds, and wonky user interface changes. I would love to have a simple, clean, and fast wiki back for nethack :) I would also volunteer to help if needed. [[User:Spazm|Spazm]] 22:17, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

Similar discussions in other wikis: [[w:c:gta:Oasis|Grand Theft Auto]], [http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia WoWWiki], [[w:c:community:Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance|Anti-Wikia_Alliance]], [http://tech.slashdot.org/story/07/09/15/0327236/How-to-Stop-Commerial-Use-of-Copyleft-Materials Slashdot about preventing Wikia from using the wiki contents], [http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:We%27re_Moving Dungeons&amp;Dragons], [http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/User_talk:Surgo outcome] [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:50, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

===Outcome of the vote===
NetHackWiki is moving away from Wikia. '''Http://nethackwiki.com''' will point to the new wiki as soon as possible. It currently redirects here, so you can already update your bookmarks. (For Perl fans, s/nethack.wikia.com/nethackwiki.com/ is enough.)

{| class="wikitable"
!Option!!Votes!!Percentage
|-
|Move||157||72%
|-
|Stay||42||19%
|-
|Undecided||19||9%
|-
|Total||218||100%
|}
&lt;!--Vote until Sunday, 24:00h CET = 6:00pm Eastern = 3:00pm Pacific time.&lt;br&gt;
&lt;poll&gt; 
Should NetHackWiki move away from Wikia?
Yes
No
Undecided
&lt;/poll&gt;--&gt;

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>kytf8qe7p04bgzc8ws8xdf99sea4br8</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53725</id>
      <parentid>53724</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T07:48:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ reply x 3</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="50790">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on NethackWiki right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the NethackWiki entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on NethackWiki and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on NethackWiki, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across NethackWiki.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official NethackWiki template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of NethackWiki about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme|If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes NethackWiki, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to NethackWiki? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more NethackWiki-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on NethackWiki is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on NethackWiki.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into NethackWiki. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting Nethack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on NethackWiki. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined NethackWiki and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out NethackWiki's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:I had a somewhat similar idea, except the template would hold the content in addition to the formatting (which is a bit ambitious, I have to admit, and why I never got around to making the template). A formatting template is a better idea and easier to implement. I should be able to make it in the next few days or so. Though may I ask for a shorter name such as "Encyclopedia"? —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:: I like self-documenting names. How about EncyclopediaFormat? On a second thought, a newbie is probably smart enough to figure out what Encyclopedia does. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

== New skin ==

I've used the monaco skin to create a NethackWiki styled skin - just copy and paste [[User:Zapwire/monaco.css]] to [[special:MyPage/monaco.css]], clear cache, enjoy. Suggestions are welcome. --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 13:43, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

== Monster pronunciation ==

Some people have difficultly saying monster names. Maybe we could include pronunciations for things? --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 16:47, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

: What exactly do you have in mind? .mp3 files spoken by the DevTeam? By native speakers? A transcription in [[wikipedia:IPA|IPA]] alphabet? (Who understands IPA anyway?) -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:27, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

==New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks ==
===What the proposed move means in practise===
New address: http://nethackwiki.com
* More Nethack content on your screen.
** Less clutter, ads, and javascript.
** [http://gtmetrix.com/compare/lCChfItL/iRME7p42 Faster loading time].
** Wikipedia-style skin.
* Hosted on the same server as NAO.
** backed by [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Paxed Paxed], [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Tjr Tjr], and the other active wiki admins
* Keep your old account, password, and edits
** Just log in with your wikia credentials if you have already edited here
** No unified login across wikia for new editors
* Almost all Wikia features keep working
** Rich text editor works, but not social network stuff, facebook, blogs.
* Ghost town at the old site, and Wikia will try to split the community
** Most incoming links already point to http://nethackwiki.com. That redirects here for now.
** Once Google ranks us above the old place, it will dry up. Expect [http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#I.27ve_experienced_a_major_project-fork_move_before.2C_so_here.27s_my_thoughts 1-3 months].
* Respect for you, the Nethack community.
** Prediction: Wikia will become more and more abusive in the future.

===Summary of the problems===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#Important_changes_with_the_new_skin WoWWiki discusses problems] we alse have. Especially bad is the wasted screen space. Wiki functionality navigation and social-network-ization come second.

===What we can't do===
From the [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Important_Updates_on_Wikia%E2%80%99s_New_Look staff blog]:

:''In keeping with the goals of the new look, our [[w:c:wikia:Terms_Of_Use|Terms of Use]] have been updated as well. Admins will no longer be able to completely remove core features for all users by using custom CSS or JavaScript. This is to protect the universal layout and functionality of every wiki on Wikia and ensure that users have access to all of the features available in the new design. Remember, these [[Help:Customization_policy |new terms]] only apply to the CSS of the wiki as a whole -- they don’t apply to your personal pages.''
:''To give a few practical examples of what this means: It’s not permitted to remove the right sidebar modules, blogs, and image attribution or add a banner that shifts the entire content area down the page, or alter the fixed width. You can still personalize your wiki with different colors and themes, add large, standout images to the wiki background, create styled templates and tables within the content area. ...''

===Ideas and solutions===
Wikia has a very poor track record of fixing things, so we are on our own. [[User:Paxed|Paxed]] has already clawed back a lot of wasted space and changed the unreadable color for text.

* '''Image attribution''': [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Is_there_a_way_to_remove_%22added_by%22_from_thumbnails%3F&amp;t=20101028155200 a solution] iff permitted
* '''A new logo''': I think our logo should be less tall, wider, should read "Nethack" instead of "Wikia", and it should have a similar graphical theme as the old one to help brand recognition. Perhaps parts could be made clickable to hack in a make-shift navbar.
* '''Wasted vertical space at the top.''': We aren't allowed to hide the crap. Somehow rearrange widgets beside each other?
* '''[[MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation]]''' needs to be updated. See [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Can_sidebar_site_navigation_be_returned_in_a_show/hide_box%3F our options], [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Wiki_Navigation&amp;t=20101024095706].
* '''Navigation sucks''': Lots of cases, e. g. try viewing the article whose talk page you are editing. Basically, the only way to get around is to type in the URL. Can we site-wide customize "my tools"?
* '''Eyestrain''' From the cited WoWWiki page: ''Wikia staff members (ie Sannse) have been deleting ANY post which mentions eyestrain or headaches on the community blogs. There have been several ophthalmologists from Britain who've posted that the skin has caused eyestrain to those who have dominant right eyes, and that the eyestrain could easily cause a headache. All posts were deleted with the reason being "spam".''

===Moving away from Wikia===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia "Should WoWWiki leave Wikia"] is definitely worth a read. Moving is perhaps not yet justified for us. Wikia would keep the old content; at best, we'd get a split in the userbase, and a shadow wiki left behind. http://wikkii.com. I'm sure Wikia will not make any concessions if we threaten. If we're lucky, we can get a copy-paste reply (though much the larger WoWWiki got some screen space). [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:20, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
:That could be handled in two ways: a) Site-wide notification that the nethack wiki has moved, or b) Just mirror the data from the nethack wiki, and resynch every N days or whatever.
:I talked with dtype, and as far as he's concerned, we could run a mediawiki on the alt.org server (and mirror the nethack wiki content there or whatever). The only problem is that I've never set up mediawiki, and I doubt I have the time to do that too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:04, October 30, 2010 (UTC)
::Friendly admin of the [[w:c:d20npcs|d20 NPCs wiki]], here. I recently migrated away from Wikia with the Dungeons and Dragons wiki, and this is one of the only wikis on Wikia I still visit, and I think this content is perfect for the wiki environment, and am saddened by Wikia's insistence on moving towards a more "social networking" model. I am very familiar with MediaWiki as a wiki engine, and would be glad to help get this wiki set up with a new home, if it helps break away from Wikia. --&lt;span style="font-variant:small-caps"&gt;[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]]&lt;/span&gt;☇([[w:c:d20npcs:User Talk:MidnightLightning|talk]]) 04:27, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
::If help is needed, I also have a bit of MediaWiki experience I could contribute. (I'm [[mw:User:Ilmari Karonen|User:Ilmari Karonen]] at mediawiki.org.) --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:37, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
:A pragmatic solution for the visual pain is to install the add-on [http://userstyles.org/stylish Stylish] and using [http://userstyles.org/styles/39199 this stylesheet] for NethackWiki. That doesn't fix the underlying problems but your eyes will thank you nevertheless. --[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 17:22, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
[[Category:NethackWiki]]
:: Edit: the old heading said "impractical: Moving away from wikia" because I didn't want to raise undue attention. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 10:56, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
:Seems like this would be a lot of work, but this would be worth it in the end. Wikia has gone downhill fast in the past couple of years, with the slow page loadtimes, annoying adds, and wonky user interface changes. I would love to have a simple, clean, and fast wiki back for nethack :) I would also volunteer to help if needed. [[User:Spazm|Spazm]] 22:17, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

Similar discussions in other wikis: [[w:c:gta:Oasis|Grand Theft Auto]], [http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia WoWWiki], [[w:c:community:Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance|Anti-Wikia_Alliance]], [http://tech.slashdot.org/story/07/09/15/0327236/How-to-Stop-Commerial-Use-of-Copyleft-Materials Slashdot about preventing Wikia from using the wiki contents], [http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:We%27re_Moving Dungeons&amp;Dragons], [http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/User_talk:Surgo outcome] [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:50, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

===Outcome of the vote===
NetHackWiki is moving away from Wikia. '''Http://nethackwiki.com''' will point to the new wiki as soon as possible. It currently redirects here, so you can already update your bookmarks. (For Perl fans, s/nethack.wikia.com/nethackwiki.com/ is enough.)

{| class="wikitable"
!Option!!Votes!!Percentage
|-
|Move||157||72%
|-
|Stay||42||19%
|-
|Undecided||19||9%
|-
|Total||218||100%
|}
&lt;!--Vote until Sunday, 24:00h CET = 6:00pm Eastern = 3:00pm Pacific time.&lt;br&gt;
&lt;poll&gt; 
Should NetHackWiki move away from Wikia?
Yes
No
Undecided
&lt;/poll&gt;--&gt;

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>oxu1d0956vhjmuy1rk88cgfb7c61lg6</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53726</id>
      <parentid>53725</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T07:58:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ yes, please.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="51066">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on NethackWiki right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the NethackWiki entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on NethackWiki and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on NethackWiki, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across NethackWiki.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official NethackWiki template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of NethackWiki about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme|If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes NethackWiki, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to NethackWiki? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more NethackWiki-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on NethackWiki is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on NethackWiki.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into NethackWiki. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting Nethack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on NethackWiki. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined NethackWiki and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out NethackWiki's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:I had a somewhat similar idea, except the template would hold the content in addition to the formatting (which is a bit ambitious, I have to admit, and why I never got around to making the template). A formatting template is a better idea and easier to implement. I should be able to make it in the next few days or so. Though may I ask for a shorter name such as "Encyclopedia"? —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:: I like self-documenting names. How about EncyclopediaFormat? On a second thought, a newbie is probably smart enough to figure out what Encyclopedia does. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

== New skin ==

I've used the monaco skin to create a NethackWiki styled skin - just copy and paste [[User:Zapwire/monaco.css]] to [[special:MyPage/monaco.css]], clear cache, enjoy. Suggestions are welcome. --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 13:43, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

== Monster pronunciation ==

Some people have difficultly saying monster names. Maybe we could include pronunciations for things? --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 16:47, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

: What exactly do you have in mind? .mp3 files spoken by the DevTeam? By native speakers? A transcription in [[wikipedia:IPA|IPA]] alphabet? (Who understands IPA anyway?) -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:27, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

==New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks ==
===What the proposed move means in practise===
New address: http://nethackwiki.com
* More Nethack content on your screen.
** Less clutter, ads, and javascript.
** [http://gtmetrix.com/compare/lCChfItL/iRME7p42 Faster loading time].
** Wikipedia-style skin.
* Hosted on the same server as NAO.
** backed by [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Paxed Paxed], [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Tjr Tjr], and the other active wiki admins
* Keep your old account, password, and edits
** Just log in with your wikia credentials if you have already edited here
** No unified login across wikia for new editors
* Almost all Wikia features keep working
** Rich text editor works, but not social network stuff, facebook, blogs.
* Ghost town at the old site, and Wikia will try to split the community
** Most incoming links already point to http://nethackwiki.com. That redirects here for now.
** Once Google ranks us above the old place, it will dry up. Expect [http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#I.27ve_experienced_a_major_project-fork_move_before.2C_so_here.27s_my_thoughts 1-3 months].
* Respect for you, the Nethack community.
** Prediction: Wikia will become more and more abusive in the future.

===Summary of the problems===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#Important_changes_with_the_new_skin WoWWiki discusses problems] we alse have. Especially bad is the wasted screen space. Wiki functionality navigation and social-network-ization come second.

===What we can't do===
From the [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Important_Updates_on_Wikia%E2%80%99s_New_Look staff blog]:

:''In keeping with the goals of the new look, our [[w:c:wikia:Terms_Of_Use|Terms of Use]] have been updated as well. Admins will no longer be able to completely remove core features for all users by using custom CSS or JavaScript. This is to protect the universal layout and functionality of every wiki on Wikia and ensure that users have access to all of the features available in the new design. Remember, these [[Help:Customization_policy |new terms]] only apply to the CSS of the wiki as a whole -- they don’t apply to your personal pages.''
:''To give a few practical examples of what this means: It’s not permitted to remove the right sidebar modules, blogs, and image attribution or add a banner that shifts the entire content area down the page, or alter the fixed width. You can still personalize your wiki with different colors and themes, add large, standout images to the wiki background, create styled templates and tables within the content area. ...''

===Ideas and solutions===
Wikia has a very poor track record of fixing things, so we are on our own. [[User:Paxed|Paxed]] has already clawed back a lot of wasted space and changed the unreadable color for text.

* '''Image attribution''': [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Is_there_a_way_to_remove_%22added_by%22_from_thumbnails%3F&amp;t=20101028155200 a solution] iff permitted
* '''A new logo''': I think our logo should be less tall, wider, should read "Nethack" instead of "Wikia", and it should have a similar graphical theme as the old one to help brand recognition. Perhaps parts could be made clickable to hack in a make-shift navbar.
* '''Wasted vertical space at the top.''': We aren't allowed to hide the crap. Somehow rearrange widgets beside each other?
* '''[[MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation]]''' needs to be updated. See [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Can_sidebar_site_navigation_be_returned_in_a_show/hide_box%3F our options], [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Wiki_Navigation&amp;t=20101024095706].
* '''Navigation sucks''': Lots of cases, e. g. try viewing the article whose talk page you are editing. Basically, the only way to get around is to type in the URL. Can we site-wide customize "my tools"?
* '''Eyestrain''' From the cited WoWWiki page: ''Wikia staff members (ie Sannse) have been deleting ANY post which mentions eyestrain or headaches on the community blogs. There have been several ophthalmologists from Britain who've posted that the skin has caused eyestrain to those who have dominant right eyes, and that the eyestrain could easily cause a headache. All posts were deleted with the reason being "spam".''

===Moving away from Wikia===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia "Should WoWWiki leave Wikia"] is definitely worth a read. Moving is perhaps not yet justified for us. Wikia would keep the old content; at best, we'd get a split in the userbase, and a shadow wiki left behind. http://wikkii.com. I'm sure Wikia will not make any concessions if we threaten. If we're lucky, we can get a copy-paste reply (though much the larger WoWWiki got some screen space). [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:20, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
:That could be handled in two ways: a) Site-wide notification that the nethack wiki has moved, or b) Just mirror the data from the nethack wiki, and resynch every N days or whatever.
:I talked with dtype, and as far as he's concerned, we could run a mediawiki on the alt.org server (and mirror the nethack wiki content there or whatever). The only problem is that I've never set up mediawiki, and I doubt I have the time to do that too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:04, October 30, 2010 (UTC)
::Friendly admin of the [[w:c:d20npcs|d20 NPCs wiki]], here. I recently migrated away from Wikia with the Dungeons and Dragons wiki, and this is one of the only wikis on Wikia I still visit, and I think this content is perfect for the wiki environment, and am saddened by Wikia's insistence on moving towards a more "social networking" model. I am very familiar with MediaWiki as a wiki engine, and would be glad to help get this wiki set up with a new home, if it helps break away from Wikia. --&lt;span style="font-variant:small-caps"&gt;[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]]&lt;/span&gt;☇([[w:c:d20npcs:User Talk:MidnightLightning|talk]]) 04:27, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
::If help is needed, I also have a bit of MediaWiki experience I could contribute. (I'm [[mw:User:Ilmari Karonen|User:Ilmari Karonen]] at mediawiki.org.) --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:37, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
:A pragmatic solution for the visual pain is to install the add-on [http://userstyles.org/stylish Stylish] and using [http://userstyles.org/styles/39199 this stylesheet] for NethackWiki. That doesn't fix the underlying problems but your eyes will thank you nevertheless. --[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 17:22, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
[[Category:NethackWiki]]
:: Edit: the old heading said "impractical: Moving away from wikia" because I didn't want to raise undue attention. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 10:56, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
:Seems like this would be a lot of work, but this would be worth it in the end. Wikia has gone downhill fast in the past couple of years, with the slow page loadtimes, annoying adds, and wonky user interface changes. I would love to have a simple, clean, and fast wiki back for nethack :) I would also volunteer to help if needed. [[User:Spazm|Spazm]] 22:17, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

Similar discussions in other wikis: [[w:c:gta:Oasis|Grand Theft Auto]], [http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia WoWWiki], [[w:c:community:Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance|Anti-Wikia_Alliance]], [http://tech.slashdot.org/story/07/09/15/0327236/How-to-Stop-Commerial-Use-of-Copyleft-Materials Slashdot about preventing Wikia from using the wiki contents], [http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:We%27re_Moving Dungeons&amp;Dragons], [http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/User_talk:Surgo outcome] [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:50, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

===Outcome of the vote===
NetHackWiki is moving away from Wikia. '''Http://nethackwiki.com''' will point to the new wiki as soon as possible. It currently redirects here, so you can already update your bookmarks. (For Perl fans, s/nethack.wikia.com/nethackwiki.com/ is enough.)

{| class="wikitable"
!Option!!Votes!!Percentage
|-
|Move||157||72%
|-
|Stay||42||19%
|-
|Undecided||19||9%
|-
|Total||218||100%
|}
&lt;!--Vote until Sunday, 24:00h CET = 6:00pm Eastern = 3:00pm Pacific time.&lt;br&gt;
&lt;poll&gt; 
Should NetHackWiki move away from Wikia?
Yes
No
Undecided
&lt;/poll&gt;--&gt;

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>9i9lj9raegy8klf56bp77sihtfd8qi6</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53727</id>
      <parentid>53726</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T08:02:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ seems we had a total of five of these</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="51542">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on NethackWiki right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the NethackWiki entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on NethackWiki and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on NethackWiki, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across NethackWiki.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official NethackWiki template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of NethackWiki about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme|If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes NethackWiki, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to NethackWiki? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more NethackWiki-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on NethackWiki is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on NethackWiki.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into NethackWiki. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting Nethack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on NethackWiki. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined NethackWiki and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out NethackWiki's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:I had a somewhat similar idea, except the template would hold the content in addition to the formatting (which is a bit ambitious, I have to admit, and why I never got around to making the template). A formatting template is a better idea and easier to implement. I should be able to make it in the next few days or so. Though may I ask for a shorter name such as "Encyclopedia"? —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:: I like self-documenting names. How about EncyclopediaFormat? On a second thought, a newbie is probably smart enough to figure out what Encyclopedia does. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

== New skin ==

I've used the monaco skin to create a NethackWiki styled skin - just copy and paste [[User:Zapwire/monaco.css]] to [[special:MyPage/monaco.css]], clear cache, enjoy. Suggestions are welcome. --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 13:43, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

== Monster pronunciation ==

Some people have difficultly saying monster names. Maybe we could include pronunciations for things? --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 16:47, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

: What exactly do you have in mind? .mp3 files spoken by the DevTeam? By native speakers? A transcription in [[wikipedia:IPA|IPA]] alphabet? (Who understands IPA anyway?) -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:27, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

==New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks ==
===What the proposed move means in practise===
New address: http://nethackwiki.com
* More Nethack content on your screen.
** Less clutter, ads, and javascript.
** [http://gtmetrix.com/compare/lCChfItL/iRME7p42 Faster loading time].
** Wikipedia-style skin.
* Hosted on the same server as NAO.
** backed by [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Paxed Paxed], [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Tjr Tjr], and the other active wiki admins
* Keep your old account, password, and edits
** Just log in with your wikia credentials if you have already edited here
** No unified login across wikia for new editors
* Almost all Wikia features keep working
** Rich text editor works, but not social network stuff, facebook, blogs.
* Ghost town at the old site, and Wikia will try to split the community
** Most incoming links already point to http://nethackwiki.com. That redirects here for now.
** Once Google ranks us above the old place, it will dry up. Expect [http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#I.27ve_experienced_a_major_project-fork_move_before.2C_so_here.27s_my_thoughts 1-3 months].
* Respect for you, the Nethack community.
** Prediction: Wikia will become more and more abusive in the future.

===Summary of the problems===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#Important_changes_with_the_new_skin WoWWiki discusses problems] we alse have. Especially bad is the wasted screen space. Wiki functionality navigation and social-network-ization come second.

===What we can't do===
From the [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Important_Updates_on_Wikia%E2%80%99s_New_Look staff blog]:

:''In keeping with the goals of the new look, our [[w:c:wikia:Terms_Of_Use|Terms of Use]] have been updated as well. Admins will no longer be able to completely remove core features for all users by using custom CSS or JavaScript. This is to protect the universal layout and functionality of every wiki on Wikia and ensure that users have access to all of the features available in the new design. Remember, these [[Help:Customization_policy |new terms]] only apply to the CSS of the wiki as a whole -- they don’t apply to your personal pages.''
:''To give a few practical examples of what this means: It’s not permitted to remove the right sidebar modules, blogs, and image attribution or add a banner that shifts the entire content area down the page, or alter the fixed width. You can still personalize your wiki with different colors and themes, add large, standout images to the wiki background, create styled templates and tables within the content area. ...''

===Ideas and solutions===
Wikia has a very poor track record of fixing things, so we are on our own. [[User:Paxed|Paxed]] has already clawed back a lot of wasted space and changed the unreadable color for text.

* '''Image attribution''': [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Is_there_a_way_to_remove_%22added_by%22_from_thumbnails%3F&amp;t=20101028155200 a solution] iff permitted
* '''A new logo''': I think our logo should be less tall, wider, should read "Nethack" instead of "Wikia", and it should have a similar graphical theme as the old one to help brand recognition. Perhaps parts could be made clickable to hack in a make-shift navbar.
* '''Wasted vertical space at the top.''': We aren't allowed to hide the crap. Somehow rearrange widgets beside each other?
* '''[[MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation]]''' needs to be updated. See [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Can_sidebar_site_navigation_be_returned_in_a_show/hide_box%3F our options], [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Wiki_Navigation&amp;t=20101024095706].
* '''Navigation sucks''': Lots of cases, e. g. try viewing the article whose talk page you are editing. Basically, the only way to get around is to type in the URL. Can we site-wide customize "my tools"?
* '''Eyestrain''' From the cited WoWWiki page: ''Wikia staff members (ie Sannse) have been deleting ANY post which mentions eyestrain or headaches on the community blogs. There have been several ophthalmologists from Britain who've posted that the skin has caused eyestrain to those who have dominant right eyes, and that the eyestrain could easily cause a headache. All posts were deleted with the reason being "spam".''

===Moving away from Wikia===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia "Should WoWWiki leave Wikia"] is definitely worth a read. Moving is perhaps not yet justified for us. Wikia would keep the old content; at best, we'd get a split in the userbase, and a shadow wiki left behind. http://wikkii.com. I'm sure Wikia will not make any concessions if we threaten. If we're lucky, we can get a copy-paste reply (though much the larger WoWWiki got some screen space). [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:20, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
:That could be handled in two ways: a) Site-wide notification that the nethack wiki has moved, or b) Just mirror the data from the nethack wiki, and resynch every N days or whatever.
:I talked with dtype, and as far as he's concerned, we could run a mediawiki on the alt.org server (and mirror the nethack wiki content there or whatever). The only problem is that I've never set up mediawiki, and I doubt I have the time to do that too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:04, October 30, 2010 (UTC)
::Friendly admin of the [[w:c:d20npcs|d20 NPCs wiki]], here. I recently migrated away from Wikia with the Dungeons and Dragons wiki, and this is one of the only wikis on Wikia I still visit, and I think this content is perfect for the wiki environment, and am saddened by Wikia's insistence on moving towards a more "social networking" model. I am very familiar with MediaWiki as a wiki engine, and would be glad to help get this wiki set up with a new home, if it helps break away from Wikia. --&lt;span style="font-variant:small-caps"&gt;[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]]&lt;/span&gt;☇([[w:c:d20npcs:User Talk:MidnightLightning|talk]]) 04:27, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
::If help is needed, I also have a bit of MediaWiki experience I could contribute. (I'm [[mw:User:Ilmari Karonen|User:Ilmari Karonen]] at mediawiki.org.) --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:37, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
:A pragmatic solution for the visual pain is to install the add-on [http://userstyles.org/stylish Stylish] and using [http://userstyles.org/styles/39199 this stylesheet] for NethackWiki. That doesn't fix the underlying problems but your eyes will thank you nevertheless. --[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 17:22, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
[[Category:NethackWiki]]
:: Edit: the old heading said "impractical: Moving away from wikia" because I didn't want to raise undue attention. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 10:56, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
:Seems like this would be a lot of work, but this would be worth it in the end. Wikia has gone downhill fast in the past couple of years, with the slow page loadtimes, annoying adds, and wonky user interface changes. I would love to have a simple, clean, and fast wiki back for nethack :) I would also volunteer to help if needed. [[User:Spazm|Spazm]] 22:17, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

Similar discussions in other wikis: [[w:c:gta:Oasis|Grand Theft Auto]], [http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia WoWWiki], [[w:c:community:Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance|Anti-Wikia_Alliance]], [http://tech.slashdot.org/story/07/09/15/0327236/How-to-Stop-Commerial-Use-of-Copyleft-Materials Slashdot about preventing Wikia from using the wiki contents], [http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:We%27re_Moving Dungeons&amp;Dragons], [http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/User_talk:Surgo outcome] [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:50, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

===Outcome of the vote===
NetHackWiki is moving away from Wikia. '''Http://nethackwiki.com''' will point to the new wiki as soon as possible. It currently redirects here, so you can already update your bookmarks. (For Perl fans, s/nethack.wikia.com/nethackwiki.com/ is enough.)

{| class="wikitable"
!Option!!Votes!!Percentage
|-
|Move||157||72%
|-
|Stay||42||19%
|-
|Undecided||19||9%
|-
|Total||218||100%
|}
&lt;!--Vote until Sunday, 24:00h CET = 6:00pm Eastern = 3:00pm Pacific time.&lt;br&gt;
&lt;poll&gt; 
Should NetHackWiki move away from Wikia?
Yes
No
Undecided
&lt;/poll&gt;--&gt;

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>lahksrd52dmgqymyhh3ykwq28sxs1di</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53729</id>
      <parentid>53727</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T08:23:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ suggest some config changes</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="52001">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Cultural references ==

Is there any kind list (like in en-wiki [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology_and_fiction_in_NetHack]) or something else here for cultural references in NetHack? I haven't found one myself, and it would really help me with the Finnish counterpart in Wikipedia.

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiprojekti_Nethack] - Wikiproject NetHack in Finnish Wikipedia

[http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:DlNh] - My usersite in Finnish Wikipedia

:No, I don't think we have an equivalent list. But just browse the articles, they've got links to single Wikipedia articles for more background of their topics. --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 23:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

::Thank you for information.

:I just wanted to mention that the closest list we have on NethackWiki right now is in the article for [[hallucinatory monster]], which lists all the monsters you will see if you're hallucinating (and often these monsters are direct references to pop culture). [[NetHack encyclopedia]] should really mention some of the cultural references (or at least the literature the encyclopedia quotes from). I've added the link you provided into the NethackWiki entry for the in-game encyclopedia. Thank you. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 20:31, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== NetHack sources on NethackWiki and Special:Random ==

IMO, Special:Random is not very useful for most users, because there's so many source code articles, and those simply aren't interesting for the majority of people.

I talked with some admins on the #wikia irc channel, and asked if there's a way to prevent the random page-link from showing the source code articles. Answer: move the pages to another namespace. The end result was that there's now a new namespace on wikia: Source

I suggest we move all the source code to the Source -namespace. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 17:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

:There are, of course, a lot of source code pages.  Your idea is a good one, but we should get a bot to do the moves, to complete the task in a reasonable time and avoid flooding the Recent Changes list. --[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

: I made a bot-readable list of source code articles to help give this idea some impetus :-) [http://greyfire.org/NetHack/wikihack-source-list.txt] It doesn't include everything from [[:Category:Source code]], just those matching /.*\.[ch]$/ (which I ''think'' is what we want?)  Let me know on [[User talk:GreyKnight]] if you want something different. --[[User:GreyKnight]]'''(as anon)''' (PS: will be back on IRC sometime soon, see y'all there!)
----
Then the problem was to find someone with a bot that would move the pages. I discussed this with Paxed in the #nethack channel. I managed to configure a pywikipediabot to use [[User:Kernigh bot]]. I tested the bot by moving User:Kernigh/sandbox to User:Kernigh/sandcastle. Then Paxed converted GreyKnight's list into a shell script of &lt;tt&gt;python movepages.py -from:"x" -to:"y"; sleep 30&lt;/tt&gt; commands [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-source-list.txt]. Before I run these commands, I need Wikia staff to give a bot flag to [[User:Kernigh bot]] to hide the huge number of moves from recent changes.

I now propose that [[User:Kernigh bot]] receive a bot flag, run the commands, thus moving the source code pages into the Source: namespace. Is this okay, or does someone not want this to happen? --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 21:26, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:Sounds good to me. Now when I want to learn about something random in NetHack, all I have to do is hit alt-shift-x :) [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:55, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm obviously all for this. --[[User:Paxed|Paxed]] 07:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
::So when is this mass move going to happen? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 01:39, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
:::As soon as someone with a bot-flagged username runs the script through a bot... Kernigh, probably. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:30, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I requested the bot flag (through [[Special:Contact]], with a reference to this section of the community portal) and received the bot flag. A few hours ago, [[User:Kernigh bot]] began to move pages. The bot sleeps 30 seconds between moves. So far, the bot seems to work correctly. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 00:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:There's also slashem sources on NethackWiki, those should be moved too... here's a S'em 0.0.7E7F2 move script: [http://bilious.homelinux.org/~paxed/wikihack-slashem-sources.txt] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Paxed, your script has extra lines between the .h and .c moves. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 16:22, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:39, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I will have [[User:Kernigh bot]] run the script, probably at Friday 7 March. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 15:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Special:Random still seems to choose pages in the Source-namespace. Apparently only staff can set what namespaces Special:Random chooses from (by marking them content or not-content), and if we decide to exclude Source, then it also means Source-pages will not count towards article count. I think we should ask the staff to exclude Source from Special:Random. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:08, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:No objection from me. While there are a few source files with rich annotations, most of them don't deserve to be counted as real articles anyway. It will be nice to have a useful random-page feature. -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 12:52, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Source-namespace has now been excluded, thanks to [[User:Uberfuzzy|Uberfuzzy]] --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Monsters which are also starting races ==

My concern is that these are handled inconsistently. Most notably the standard  [[dwarf (monster)]] {{red|h}} is missing altogether. I am hoping someone responsible can decide upon a suitable convention and apply it across NethackWiki.

The [[dwarf (monster)]] todo page I created provides the relevant links. I apologise for the fact I couldn't fix it myself.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 14:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

:I've taken a look at this. Basically, all starting races have deeply ambiguous meanings, embracing all of the following:
:* A [[race]] (obviously)
:* A [[monster class|class]] (or part class) of monsters
:* A [[monster attribute]] ([[M2_HUMAN]] etc.) used to determine [[cannibalism]] and own-race [[sacrifice]]
:* A [[monster]], sometimes used mainly for [[corpse]]s, sometimes not.

:The meaning required is determined by context, and often assumed implicitly, although this can be misleading; for example, does the phrase "human or elf" include [[Kop]]s? The answer is, it depends on whether you are looking at the monster class, or the monster attributes. So {{white|@}} ignore all Elbereth - they are [[human or elf]], Kops only respect Elbereth when you stand on it - they have the [[human (monster attribute)|human]] monster attribute. But "human or elf", meaning {{white|@}} is usually linked as &lt;nowiki&gt;"[[human]] or [[elf]]"&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and none of the meanings at either page encapsulated what {{white|@}} is (until I recently changed "Human", but you're still out of luck at "Elf".)

:In my opinion, this means that [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]] and [[orc]] should all be disambiguation pages delineating these various meanings and pointing enquirers in the right direction. In addition, we need a proper page for each monster class - that is, monsters who share the same symbol. Internally, NetHack uses this symbol to determine behaviour in certain cases. Classes such as [[human or elf]], [[wraith (monster class)|wraith]] and [[orc (monster class)|orc]] (includes [[goblin]] and [[hobgoblin]]) currently have no such page. All these example classes are used internally to determine game behaviour at some point.

:Human comes closest currently to how I see things should be handled, although a page for {{white|@}} [[human or elf]] does not currently exist ([[@]] is essentially a disambiguation page).

:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== The problem with [[Magic resistance|MR]] ==

For the [[Magic resistance|MR]] topic, it records only the MR of the player and not of the monster. I have no idea what base MR does for monster (well, some ideas, but not enough). Someone ought to add something about that. [[User:RegalStar|RegalStar]] 18:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

:I saw this too and added [[Magic resistance (monster)]], and put it in [[Template:Otheruses]] at the top of [[Magic resistance]] recently. Hope it's useful.
:--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 15:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

== [[Modifying NetHack]] ==

Can someone make a small guide? There's only one guide I can find, http://failsure.net:8085/root/usr/src/pub/games/nethack/vms/vmsbuild.com , but it doesn't tell you how make a new class. Also, I need to know how to use makedefs. I try to run it, but it flashes for a second saying it has invalid arguments (0). It doesn't even say how to use it. (FYI, my source and tools are installed in C:\nh343\ and C:\MinGW\)

By-the-way, here's the code I'm using:

Roles.c, under the bit about ranger:

 /* START: BETA: Detective */
 {	{"Detective", 0}, {
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0},
 	{"Detective", 0} },
 	"God", "God", "God", /* God */
 	"Det", "someplace 1", "someplace 2",
 	PM_RANGER, NON_PM, PM_BOMB_DOG,
 	PM_ORION, PM_HUNTER, PM_SCORPIUS,
 	PM_FOREST_CENTAUR, PM_SCORPION, S_CENTAUR, S_SPIDER,
 	ART_LONGBOW_OF_DIANA,
 	MH_HUMAN|MH_ELF|MH_GNOME|MH_ORC | ROLE_MALE|ROLE_FEMALE |
 	  ROLE_NEUTRAL|ROLE_CHAOTIC,
 	/* Str Int Wis Dex Con Cha */
 	{  13, 13, 13,  9, 13,  7 },
 	{  30, 10, 10, 20, 20, 10 },
 	/* Init   Lower  Higher */
 	{ 13, 0,  0, 6,  1, 0 },	/* Hit points */
 	{  1, 0,  0, 1,  0, 1 },12,	/* Energy */
 	10, 9, 2, 1, 10, A_INT, SPE_INVISIBILITY,   -4
 },
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

Roles.c, above the knight and samurai's hello thing:

 	case PM_DETECTIVE:
 	    return ("Here's the thing");        /* -- A. Monk */

Monst.c, under the large dog code:

 /* START: BETA: BOMB DOG */
     MON("bomb dog", S_DOG,
 	LVL(6, 15, 4, 0, 0), (G_GENO|1),
 	A(ATTK(AT_BITE, AD_PHYS, 2, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(800, 250, 0, MS_BARK, MZ_MEDIUM), 0, 0,
 	M1_ANIMAL|M1_NOHANDS|M1_CARNIVORE,
 	M2_STRONG|M2_DOMESTIC, M3_INFRAVISIBLE, HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: BOMB DOG */

Monst.c, under the ranger code:

 /* END: BETA: Detective */
     MON("detective", S_HUMAN,
 	LVL(10, 12, 10, 2, -3), G_NOGEN,
 	A(ATTK(AT_WEAP, AD_PHYS, 1, 4),
 	  NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK, NO_ATTK),
 	SIZ(WT_HUMAN, 400, 0, MS_HUMANOID, MZ_HUMAN), 0, 0,
 	M1_HUMANOID|M1_OMNIVORE,
 	M2_NOPOLY|M2_HUMAN|M2_STRONG|M2_COLLECT, M3_INFRAVISIBLE,
 	HI_DOMESTIC),
 /* END: BETA: Detective */

How would I make it so a class has a revolver (the archilogiest had one, or am I just thinking that Indy had one, so Archy must have one? XD) and wipes (which I'd have to program in myself).

Also, are there any really interesting points in the code? Like, I'd like to keep the game from deleting your save when you die.

[[User:TBF02|TBF02]] 06:26, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I've played as Archeologist a few times, and to my knowledge there is no revolver, but there is a bull whip.  if you dont want the save deleted, copy it to a different folder before reopening it.{{unsigned|NerdLord}}
:If you want firearms, then [[SLASH'EM]] is for you.  Be aware that "SLASH'EM wants you dead."  And please don't come claiming an ascension if you've [[save scumming|save scummed]].--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 22:17, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
A revolver and wipes couldn't be too hard to hack. Just give your detective a modified wand of magic missile and towel.

== Weapon damages and min-max values, use template? ==
I saw someone added the minimum and maximum damages that [[Vorpal Blade]] and [[Battle-axe]] could do to their artifact/weapon template. I decided to write a template that could calculate those automagically given the [[d notation]]: See '''[[User:Paxed/Template:dice]]'''. Opinions, do we want to use it? (I'm obviously all for it) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:19, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
:paxed, that's a really cool template! I would love to see that used in the various monster infoboxes. I think this should be an official NethackWiki template! :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:45, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Monster (Pet) equipment - info box template? ==

I'm new to contributing: I'm not sure exactly how the info punched into the monster box on the right comes out the way it does. Take the entry for [[Djinni]]: the box at the right has an "other attributes" section that lists in bullet points that a Djinni has a head, arms, and a torso, that it can pick up weapons, etc., but in the edit section it just has some values set.

What I'd like to see is very specific information about exactly what equipment a  monster can equip, especially after it has been tamed. For example, I had a pet Djinni, and it could wear a shield and gloves as well, and I believe it was equipping a cloak, but it wouldn't take any armor. I would have thought something that can wear a cloak could wear body armor. Without a wand of probing, I couldn't tell if it had something cursed on or if it simply couldn't equip it.

It'd be nice to see some consistent section on what equipment a monster will use as a pet, something like:

Centaur
Can equip:
Weapon
Shield
Helmet
Gloves
Amulet of Lifesaving
Can use:
Unicorn Horn
Potion of Gain Level

Would it be possible to have the exact information on what a pet can equip converted from those values entered in the template - are these values/flags consistent, do they apply across the board? Or does every monster have it's own equipment rules? 

If the latter is true, and it would be too complicated to work into the template, can anyone point to the best resource where I can find specifics on what a pet will wear and use? I'm thinking about adding an "As a Pet" section at the bottom of monster articles as I fool around with Polymorph traps. [[User:Floatingeye|Floatingeye]] 04:15, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:The monster template is at [[Template:Monster]].  But the thing you're looking at is actually an inner template, [[Template:Attributes]].  The things in that template are lifted straight from the source code.  [[Source:Monflag.h]] contains all the flags.  Take a look at the djinni: [[Monst.c#line2782]].  The flag "humanoid" says that your djinni has all the usual human bits, so it is a mystery why he wouldn't wear armor.
:Templates are tricky, so if you want to improve them, I suggest trying to talk to [[User:Shijun|Shijun]] or [[User:Paxed|Paxed]], since they've worked on them recently.  #nethack on IRC is probably a good way to find people.
:-[[User:Mniot|Mniot]] 05:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

:Floatingeye, I think your djinni couldn't wear the armor because it didn't take off the cloak first (you always need to take off the cloak first before you can wear armor; obviously the monster AI isn't advanced enough to figure this out).

:And yes, I agree with Mniot... templates are tricky (and sometimes I have trouble coding them). There could definitely be more user-friendly documentation about templates though. ;)

:—[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 01:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== Theme change ==

What the heck happened to the theme?  How do I get the old look back? -- [[User:Killian|Killian]] 15:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:[[User:Kirkburn]] changed it. Did he talk with the sysops/whatever of NethackWiki about it first?! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:I'll use [[Special:Contact]] to complain about this, maybe others should do so too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::He didn't contact ''me'' at any rate.  I could change it back, if there's a clear consensus for doing so.  Anyway, if you're logged in, you'll see a small button marked MORE next to your name at the top right.  Click that, and select "My preferences".  ([[Special:Preferences|This link]] should also work.)  Click the Skin tab on the resulting screen, and you can change the theme.  The old look is "MonoBook" and you'll find it toward the bottom.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 18:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I've changed the default theme back to Slate. As the discussion should have been: is there anyone who would like to see us switch to Monaco? [[User:Eidolos|Eidolos]] 20:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I've deleted the offending setting altogether, so now the user's Skin setting will be respected whether or not s/he checks the "allow admins to override" setting.  I've confirmed we're still back to MonoBook when not logged in.  I've also set my own setting to Monaco Sapphire -- I rather like the new skin but the Slate theme strikes me as overly stark.  Sapphire at least has similar colors to the MonoBook skin.  I might try experimenting with CSS, to get a Monaco that looks reasonably close to MonoBook -- it has some features that I think are neat.  Having a "Problem reports list" on my sidebar will make that feature a bit more useful.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 21:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

See [[Talk:Main Page#Monaco skin]] for more. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 18:28, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Ray, thank you for looking into it. Sapphire could be a better fit - I went for slate due to the relatively neutral tones. Remember users can choose their own skins, this would mainly be a change for what anonymous users see - monaco has a lot of improvements for "viewers" along with editors. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Anyone following this topic may be interested in reading [[Wikihack:If you prefer the old theme|If you prefer the old theme]]. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 08:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Engraving]] and [[Elbereth]] ==

Almost the entire article [[Engraving]] is repeated almost verbatim in [[Elbereth]].

The danger of this is that editors update only one page, and the info in both gets out of sync. This has happened in this case.

Clearly these should be merged; I would just go ahead with this, but I don't want to make major changes to a featured page without some discussion.

There are a few points of view I can think of here:

:1. Although in principle you can engrave anything, in practice little else is ever engraved than Elbereth or 'x' when illiterate. (There is some argument for engraving other things when identifying wands that might be teleportation). Thus Engraving should be merged into Elbereth and Engraving become a redirect to Elbereth. This would leave the Elbereth page largely untouched.

:2. Large sections of the Elbereth page are really about the detailed mechanics of Engraving. All these details belong there and should be moved. The Elbereth page can simply point there as necessary.

:3. Engraving and Elbereth are important topics that deserve their own, unpolluted pages. However, strategy decisions during play are important. An Elbereth strategy page or section should be created that discusses the interactions and how they affect play.

No doubt there are other possible viewpoints/solutions that I haven't thought of.

Things are somewhat complicated by the fact that, although it is a featured article, Elbereth does not seem to follow the Style Guide particularly well; in particular, it merges fact and comment throughout.

Personally I favour option 3, separating the comment in the current Elbereth page into a strategy section.

What do others think?

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 16:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

:Since it's been a month now with no responses I'll take it I should just go ahead and do whatever I think best. I'll do just that whenever I get round to it. --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:53, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== Disambiguation Template:for2 ==

On [[Gender]], I had need to disambiguate 3 links for the page itself and 2 redirects; neither [[Template:for]] nor [[Template:otheruses]] could do this. I created [[Template:For2]] as a general purpose tool, after [[wikipedia:Template:for2]] (documented at [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Hatnotes#For (other topic)]]).

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 23:10, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Long reply above ==

Just in case you missed it, I put in a sizeable reply to  [[Wikihack:Community Portal#Monsters which are also starting races|Monsters which are also starting races]] above.

--[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 22:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

== Interhack ==

Interhack an earlier attempt at multiplayer nethack. The project was put on hold in 2001 due to time constraints. While the latest version was 1.0.5 - it could barely be called complete. In order to maintain the turn-based aspect of Nethack, the developers came up with the idea of "sureal-time". In the original algorithm, monsters were "tied" to a particular player on the level. When that player moved, those monsters also moved. Unfortunately the developers still resorted to real time movement when players were in close proximity.

Of course "sureal-time" in 2008 would work something like this:
  * Monsters are tied to the nearest player and move in conjunction with that player.
  * Objects have an "age" - as a player travels around a level, objects age. As objects get older, they disappear etc. This prevents the following scenario: Player A and B are in the same room. A is in dire need of healing. B runs off and gets a potion and returns with the bottle.
  * When a monster is attacked by a player they are not tied to, they can "react" to the other attacker.

The key problem with multiplayer was not a turn-based algorithm that would work. Multiple players introduce the need for new data structures, and effectively a complete re-write of Nethack code. Interhack was written in C++ as this was an ideal language for a world based on objects. And re-writing the code is no small task.

...

Shouldn't this wiki mention [[Interhack]]? The multiplayer nethack, I mean. I know the project got abandoned, but it still had a stable 1.0.5 release in 2001. {{unsigned|84.121.141.24}}

:As it was a NetHack variant, I should think so. Now all we need is for someone to take it upon themselves to add it (looks at the anonymous OP) --[[User:Rogerb-on-NAO|Rogerb-on-NAO]] 19:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Interhack continues to be developed and is currently in an Alpha verion: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=Interhack {{unsigned|114.129.168.15|2009-09-19}}

== Article Number Count ==
For some reason, the number suddenly jumped from what I distinctly remember to be 1750 to around 3400. Any explanation? [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 23:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:The [[w:c:charmed:Main Page|Charmed Wikia]], which I also frequent and sometimes write for, doesn't seem to have experienced a similar jump.  What distinguishes NethackWiki, however, is the large number of articles in the [[Source code]] namespace.  The prior article count included only articles in the main namespace that were not redirects.  I suspect that either the new article count is including non-main-namespace articles, or it is including the redirects left behind from when the source code archives lived in the main namespace.--[[User:Ray Chason|Ray Chason]] 17:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Addicted to NethackWiki? ==

I think I've read all the articles, excepting the source code... when I press random article 100 times, there isn't one I haven't read... o.O [[User:Fredil Yupigo|Fredil Yupigo]] 21:26, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Could have been worse... [http://www.bash.org/?20788]

== Calling for help for the Civilization IV wiki ==

Hello people. This post does not really relate to NetHack, but I thought I'd ask for your help anyway. I recently got the ''Civilization IV'' game and subsequently (today) became an administrator of the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Civ4 Wiki] at Wikia. I recon NetHack and Civilization are both games of patience and long-term planning, so I think some other NetHackers might also be Civ-enthusiasts. In case anyone is willing to help, join the wiki and find something to do. For one, all but one articles about individual units are missing. You may use the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Keshik Keshik] page as an example and start filling data for the [http://civ4.wikia.com/wiki/Units other units] ([http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/units/] is a good source). Or create articles about resources or amend the articles about technologies. Or you may just wish me luck doing all that by myself. ;) --[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] 00:09, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

== Modifying wikia default templates ==

We should modify at least [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]] and [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] so they contain more NethackWiki-related help and templates. (I put in some suggestions on the talk pages of those two templates). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

== Handling variants ==

I'm taking an interest in [[ZAPM]] following the /dev/null tournament, and have added a stub entry describing the most apparent similarities and differences. I am looking for some advice on how to manage some of the big changes - e.g. [[BUC]] is now "buggy, debugged, optimized" but is this worthy of separate pages? A redirect seems like a cop out to me. Also, there is little information (and no readily-accessible source) that I can easily dig in to, so I don't even know what NetHack version it is based off! I'll do my best, but before I go an pollute the namespace, I thought I'd seek a little advice. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:I think that for now everything ZAPM-related should be kept on the single ZAPM-page, if the page does not grow to be too large. In my opinion we should only create more new articles to only the most well established variants, namely [[SLASH'EM]] and maybe [[SporkHack]], too. There's still plenty of room for improvement in both of those categories. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 01:39, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==Wikia Spotlight==

I was thinking that it would be nice to get this wiki a spotlight with [[w:Wikia:Spotlights]]: "Wikia Spotlights are images that appear on each Wikia page that link to other Wikia sites." For that, the following conditions should be met: 

*The wiki should have a Welcome template for logged-in users and anonymous-IPs. Every new user should get a welcome on their talk page. Spotlights bring in new contributors, and it's very important that the community welcomes these new users, and helps them to get started. There shouldn't be any red Talk links on Recent changes. This is essential for any wiki that gets spotlighted.

We have the {{t|welcome}} template that I have been using. Would you other guys and gals start using this too?

*The wiki should use the Monaco skin as the default. 

I'm quite fond of the old MonoBook style we have, but what do you think? Have you overridden this choice and are you using the Monaco skin?

*The wiki should have at least 100 content pages, not counting stubs. 

This is definitely fullfilled.

*The wiki should have a logo. 

Yup, done.

*The main page of the wiki should have at least one picture, and clear links to the most important content. 

No pics, but they are not really applicable to NetHack anyway... We do have clear links.

*The wiki should have a clear category structure to help readers navigate around the site. Every content page should be in a category.

I think we do have a clear category structure. Some pages might still need categorizing.

All the points above say that the wiki ''should'' do those, but it does not say that they ''must'' be fulfilled to get the spotlight. Thoughts? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:55, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

:I think the kind of pics that should be on NethackWiki is screenshots. We don't really have a whole lot of them and I think they'll make some of the articles more clear. Unfortunately, I don't have free time to make some, but we could make getting screenshots a project here on NethackWiki.

:Oh, and I haven't noticed the welcome template. I'll use it when I get some free time. :) —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 21:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

::I filed a request for a spotlight and just got a message in my [[User talk:ZeroOne|talk page]] saying that the request was approved and we are in the queue. :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

:::I just found out that the Spotlight has been installed and can be seen in other wikis:
[[Image:Wikihack Wikia Spotlight.gif]]
:::Pretty cool, huh? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

==Recent changes patrol==

I asked for the Wikia staff to enable the [[Help:Recent changes patrol|Recent changes patrol]] feature, which they did. This helps us fight vandalism, as now every unchecked edit appears with a red "!" next to it. When you click the diff-link, there's a "Mark as patrolled" link which then removes the exclamation mark, thus signalling the other users that the edit was legitimate. Any comments? &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:00, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

== Variant specific information ==

Lately I've been source diving a lot in different variants of NetHack and would like to enter some of the knowledge into NethackWiki. Especially that concerning how the variants have tackled some shortcomings of NetHack (e.g. pudding farming or boring Gehennom).

Now it is clear to me that large texts (like Lethes Gehennom) should be incorporated into the page of its variant or maybe even get their own article.

But smaller changes like how a variant tries to prevent pudding farming should probably go into a new section. How should that section be called? ''Variant behaviour''? ''Variant modification''?

And should a new category be added to the article? Like ''Variant information''?
--[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 09:15, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
* I asked around for roughly the same sort of guidance, and there isn't anything hard-and-fast, rules-wise. As a personal guide, I think that for notes within an existing page that don't have the content to warrant articles of their own, a section titled after the variant is sufficient - there are plenty of sections relating to SLASH'EM in other articles, for example. If you are covering a whole variant, a summary page with differences may be warranted - see my own (abortive) example at [[ZAPM]]. Just my 2zm, but it keeps the wiki looking "nice". Yuck, hate that word. -- [[User:Kalon|Kalon]] 22:57, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**You may have already found it, but we already do have an article about the [[Gehennom (Lethe patch)|Gehennom]] of the [[Lethe patch]]. Anyway, I'd start by writing a general article about the variant first. There, I'd describe the new features briefly and then I'd use the {{t|main}} template to link to the main articles, which would cover the topic in more detail. But that's just how I'd do it. Kalon has done great job with the [[ZAPM]] article. So far it all fits nicely into one page — breaking it into multiple pages would just hinder the readability. Of course, he has also reserved links into articles such as [[software engineer]], where the subject can be discussed in greater detail. Now I'm just repeating what Kalon just said but for new sections, see how the [[Gehennom]] article treats SLASH'EM. If you were to add an explanation of, say, the Gehennom of [[Sporkhack]], you should probably put the Sporkhack header and the SLASH'EM header under a ''Variants'' header. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 08:11, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

== Is NetHack Alive? ==

Are a lot of people still playing the game and/or visiting Nethack? What is visit rate and edit rate on here? In particular, do questions get answered in a few days or less or is the community mostly dead? {{unsigned|66.30.202.87|on 2009-05-19}}

:You can look [[Special:WikiaStats|here]] if you want to see the visit and edit rates on NethackWiki. And yes, questions here do usually get answered within a few days. Look at this response for example. ;)

:I'm not sure if a lot of people are still playing the game. It depends on what you mean by "a lot". I hope someone else can answer this question. —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: The [[:/dev/null/nethack tournament]] 2008 had 22,812 completed games played by 1,305 players, [[NAO]] has usually more than [http://alt.org/nethack/dailygames_ct.html 400 games a day], the [http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/index.php?group_id=196&amp;ugn=nethack&amp;type=&amp;mode=year sourceforge statistics page] shows more than 150,000 hits per month for nethack.org and more than 10,000 downloads per month.
: For the community, you should also look at [[RGRN]] and #nethack on freenode. I guess that's where most of the action is. This community portal is used much less than IRC or Usenet.
: NetHack sure isn't dead, but it isn't WoW either. Depends on your definition if this qualifies as "a lot". And as soon as I release my übervariant of NetHack, WoW might notice that the tides have turned ;-D —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 07:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:Even the devteam, though it has not uttered a line of code since 2004, does update their online bug list. But I personally think ''development'' of Nethack in part dead, in part superseded by Slashem. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Superceded? The last life sign of Slash'Em development was two years ago. I'd rather say the Slash'Em DevTeam has catched up with NetHacks. :-} —[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 13:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for you responses. I am certainly not looking for WoW and have joined NethackWiki and will contribute what I can to the community (though I have a lot to learn about formatting wikis). I have wanted to try SLASH'EM and checked out NethackWiki's knowledge base a few months ago and found information on SLASH'EM sorely lacking... but this seems to have been remedied now so I'll try Vulture's Claw. Do you guys look down on people trying the fancy new interfaces? Anyway, nice to meet you all and thank again. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 14:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I really like Vulture's, but I play tiles because I want to know the inventory letter and object description at a glance. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

==Slashem Namespace==
As Slashem pages proliferate, we will reach a point where roughly 1/3 of all pages either have a Slashem section or a "pagename (SLASH'EM)" counterpart.
I think Slashem should have its own namespace instead for cleanlyness, and there should be a template such that Slashem pages #include the vanilla page by default.
Let's reach a consensus. What do you think? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

: I love the idea but don't know what this "namespace" business is. Is there some way to toggle whether you want to see SLASH'EM or not so that it displays either the vanilla page or SLASH page? However, if that were done, the vanilla and SLASH pages might go out of sync in terms of information so perhaps better yet would be some universal toggle like that shows or hides a "In SLASH'EM:" section at the bottom of the articles that have them. Better yet (and this might be what you mean by namespace), a WikiSLASH encyclopedia. If so, I'm all for it. [[User:DemonDoll|DemonDoll]] 17:03, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template for Encyclopedia ==

Perhaps we should make a template '''&lt;nowiki&gt;{{&lt;/nowiki&gt;NethackEncyclopediaFormatting|'''content'''&lt;nowiki&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;''' that fully formats the Nethack Encyclopedia paragraphs. I think the encyclopedia might look better black on light blue, in a  script font (e. g. Apple Chancery), and with a box around it (e. g. similar to Wikipedia's &lt;nowiki&gt;{{divbox|green||&lt;center&gt;Content&lt;/center&gt;}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) instead of the current typewriter font. Also, a template would/should automatically make sure appearance is consistent across pages while providing a single set of controls to fine-tune. Any opionion? Who could make such a template? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:I had a somewhat similar idea, except the template would hold the content in addition to the formatting (which is a bit ambitious, I have to admit, and why I never got around to making the template). A formatting template is a better idea and easier to implement. I should be able to make it in the next few days or so. Though may I ask for a shorter name such as "Encyclopedia"? —[[User:Shijun|Shijun]] 06:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

:: I like self-documenting names. How about EncyclopediaFormat? On a second thought, a newbie is probably smart enough to figure out what Encyclopedia does. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

== New skin ==

I've used the monaco skin to create a NethackWiki styled skin - just copy and paste [[User:Zapwire/monaco.css]] to [[special:MyPage/monaco.css]], clear cache, enjoy. Suggestions are welcome. --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 13:43, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

== Monster pronunciation ==

Some people have difficultly saying monster names. Maybe we could include pronunciations for things? --[[User:Zapwire|'''Zapwire''']] ([[user talk:zapwire|talk]]/[[user blog:zapwire|blog]]/[[special:Contributions/zapwire|edits]]) 16:47, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

: What exactly do you have in mind? .mp3 files spoken by the DevTeam? By native speakers? A transcription in [[wikipedia:IPA|IPA]] alphabet? (Who understands IPA anyway?) -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:27, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

==New "Wikia" aka "Oasis" skin: Problems, legal restrictions, and tweaks ==
===What the proposed move means in practise===
New address: http://nethackwiki.com
* More Nethack content on your screen.
** Less clutter, ads, and javascript.
** [http://gtmetrix.com/compare/lCChfItL/iRME7p42 Faster loading time].
** Wikipedia-style skin.
* Hosted on the same server as NAO.
** backed by [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Paxed Paxed], [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Tjr Tjr], and the other active wiki admins
* Keep your old account, password, and edits
** Just log in with your wikia credentials if you have already edited here
** No unified login across wikia for new editors
* Almost all Wikia features keep working
** Rich text editor works, but not social network stuff, facebook, blogs.
* Ghost town at the old site, and Wikia will try to split the community
** Most incoming links already point to http://nethackwiki.com. That redirects here for now.
** Once Google ranks us above the old place, it will dry up. Expect [http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#I.27ve_experienced_a_major_project-fork_move_before.2C_so_here.27s_my_thoughts 1-3 months].
* Respect for you, the Nethack community.
** Prediction: Wikia will become more and more abusive in the future.

===Summary of the problems===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia?#Important_changes_with_the_new_skin WoWWiki discusses problems] we alse have. Especially bad is the wasted screen space. Wiki functionality navigation and social-network-ization come second.

===What we can't do===
From the [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Important_Updates_on_Wikia%E2%80%99s_New_Look staff blog]:

:''In keeping with the goals of the new look, our [[w:c:wikia:Terms_Of_Use|Terms of Use]] have been updated as well. Admins will no longer be able to completely remove core features for all users by using custom CSS or JavaScript. This is to protect the universal layout and functionality of every wiki on Wikia and ensure that users have access to all of the features available in the new design. Remember, these [[Help:Customization_policy |new terms]] only apply to the CSS of the wiki as a whole -- they don’t apply to your personal pages.''
:''To give a few practical examples of what this means: It’s not permitted to remove the right sidebar modules, blogs, and image attribution or add a banner that shifts the entire content area down the page, or alter the fixed width. You can still personalize your wiki with different colors and themes, add large, standout images to the wiki background, create styled templates and tables within the content area. ...''

===Ideas and solutions===
Wikia has a very poor track record of fixing things, so we are on our own. [[User:Paxed|Paxed]] has already clawed back a lot of wasted space and changed the unreadable color for text.

* '''Image attribution''': [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Is_there_a_way_to_remove_%22added_by%22_from_thumbnails%3F&amp;t=20101028155200 a solution] iff permitted
* '''A new logo''': I think our logo should be less tall, wider, should read "Nethack" instead of "Wikia", and it should have a similar graphical theme as the old one to help brand recognition. Perhaps parts could be made clickable to hack in a make-shift navbar.
* '''Wasted vertical space at the top.''': We aren't allowed to hide the crap. Somehow rearrange widgets beside each other?
* '''[[MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation]]''' needs to be updated. See [http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Can_sidebar_site_navigation_be_returned_in_a_show/hide_box%3F our options], [http://community.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Wiki_Navigation&amp;t=20101024095706].
* '''Navigation sucks''': Lots of cases, e. g. try viewing the article whose talk page you are editing. Basically, the only way to get around is to type in the URL. Can we site-wide customize "my tools"?
* '''Eyestrain''' From the cited WoWWiki page: ''Wikia staff members (ie Sannse) have been deleting ANY post which mentions eyestrain or headaches on the community blogs. There have been several ophthalmologists from Britain who've posted that the skin has caused eyestrain to those who have dominant right eyes, and that the eyestrain could easily cause a headache. All posts were deleted with the reason being "spam".''

===Moving away from Wikia===
[http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia "Should WoWWiki leave Wikia"] is definitely worth a read. Moving is perhaps not yet justified for us. Wikia would keep the old content; at best, we'd get a split in the userbase, and a shadow wiki left behind. http://wikkii.com. I'm sure Wikia will not make any concessions if we threaten. If we're lucky, we can get a copy-paste reply (though much the larger WoWWiki got some screen space). [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:20, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
:That could be handled in two ways: a) Site-wide notification that the nethack wiki has moved, or b) Just mirror the data from the nethack wiki, and resynch every N days or whatever.
:I talked with dtype, and as far as he's concerned, we could run a mediawiki on the alt.org server (and mirror the nethack wiki content there or whatever). The only problem is that I've never set up mediawiki, and I doubt I have the time to do that too... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:04, October 30, 2010 (UTC)
::Friendly admin of the [[w:c:d20npcs|d20 NPCs wiki]], here. I recently migrated away from Wikia with the Dungeons and Dragons wiki, and this is one of the only wikis on Wikia I still visit, and I think this content is perfect for the wiki environment, and am saddened by Wikia's insistence on moving towards a more "social networking" model. I am very familiar with MediaWiki as a wiki engine, and would be glad to help get this wiki set up with a new home, if it helps break away from Wikia. --&lt;span style="font-variant:small-caps"&gt;[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]]&lt;/span&gt;☇([[w:c:d20npcs:User Talk:MidnightLightning|talk]]) 04:27, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
::If help is needed, I also have a bit of MediaWiki experience I could contribute. (I'm [[mw:User:Ilmari Karonen|User:Ilmari Karonen]] at mediawiki.org.) --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:37, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
:A pragmatic solution for the visual pain is to install the add-on [http://userstyles.org/stylish Stylish] and using [http://userstyles.org/styles/39199 this stylesheet] for NethackWiki. That doesn't fix the underlying problems but your eyes will thank you nevertheless. --[[User:Bhaak|bhaak]] 17:22, October 31, 2010 (UTC)
[[Category:NethackWiki]]
:: Edit: the old heading said "impractical: Moving away from wikia" because I didn't want to raise undue attention. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 10:56, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
:Seems like this would be a lot of work, but this would be worth it in the end. Wikia has gone downhill fast in the past couple of years, with the slow page loadtimes, annoying adds, and wonky user interface changes. I would love to have a simple, clean, and fast wiki back for nethack :) I would also volunteer to help if needed. [[User:Spazm|Spazm]] 22:17, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

Similar discussions in other wikis: [[w:c:gta:Oasis|Grand Theft Auto]], [http://www.wowwiki.com/Forum:Should_WoWWiki_leave_Wikia WoWWiki], [[w:c:community:Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance|Anti-Wikia_Alliance]], [http://tech.slashdot.org/story/07/09/15/0327236/How-to-Stop-Commerial-Use-of-Copyleft-Materials Slashdot about preventing Wikia from using the wiki contents], [http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:We%27re_Moving Dungeons&amp;Dragons], [http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/User_talk:Surgo outcome] [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:50, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

===Outcome of the vote===
NetHackWiki is moving away from Wikia. '''Http://nethackwiki.com''' will point to the new wiki as soon as possible. It currently redirects here, so you can already update your bookmarks. (For Perl fans, s/nethack.wikia.com/nethackwiki.com/ is enough.)

{| class="wikitable"
!Option!!Votes!!Percentage
|-
|Move||157||72%
|-
|Stay||42||19%
|-
|Undecided||19||9%
|-
|Total||218||100%
|}
&lt;!--Vote until Sunday, 24:00h CET = 6:00pm Eastern = 3:00pm Pacific time.&lt;br&gt;
&lt;poll&gt; 
Should NetHackWiki move away from Wikia?
Yes
No
Undecided
&lt;/poll&gt;--&gt;

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>pb7h58kqxffm2063gdtw777ld59vaw4</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53732</id>
      <parentid>53729</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T08:29:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>moved old discussions into an archive page</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="5273">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>gtjky1rwhpcizo3oewfzlushz1q2w3v</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53737</id>
      <parentid>53732</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T08:37:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ files all fixed now; missing templates</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="5650">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>500qqttr6mkvqld3rpb88hm5mfbw8hs</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53738</id>
      <parentid>53737</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T08:40:58Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="5817">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>1fyo7y3v9lcqw7h3rsbl14r0ko3o9a5</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53740</id>
      <parentid>53738</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T08:55:37Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ licensing</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="6280">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>4tep2ogfuzy1aledjjexl17s16tkaid</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53742</id>
      <parentid>53740</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T09:00:38Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ user group called wikian</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="6619">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>d1wn2rgth60x20jiefo1yddlk62qbux</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53743</id>
      <parentid>53742</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T09:01:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>#nethackwiki@freenode</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="6673">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>jez6uqzx8domiu3ijf1xwxmrt4e91jw</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53744</id>
      <parentid>53743</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T09:05:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* We need a new logo */ looking good! but how about a bit more limited color palette?</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="6926">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>onc8s4axbj39vr62mll29e479c2cxcy</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53746</id>
      <parentid>53744</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T09:54:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ my todos</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="8265">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:: If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
* make font larger
* long list of editing work
* create short, fitting articles about Nethack on various other wikis. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
* Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>kibp36vemnv4i4gr238zt1lfzckb8dq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53747</id>
      <parentid>53746</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T09:54:44Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="8255">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:: If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
* make font larger
* long list of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
* Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>b294uxpcgqh51tdkgpwbqhx265blg2l</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53748</id>
      <parentid>53747</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T10:42:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* We need a new logo */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="8430">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:: If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
* make font larger
* long list of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
* Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>65gl6ocn1xah0bs62hoj46atanr1pi5</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53750</id>
      <parentid>53748</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T11:12:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ non-image files done.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="8438">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:: If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
* make font larger
* long list of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
* Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>2p8zaritlb6536iqi9yjj927409dtrl</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53751</id>
      <parentid>53750</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T11:14:13Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ e-mail notification does seem to be enabled</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="8609">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, &lt;s&gt;and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes&lt;/s&gt;.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:: If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
* make font larger
* long list of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
* Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>iq1tt2zv3uqhcnds20bj02rw42krmum</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53752</id>
      <parentid>53751</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T11:14:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ createbox &amp; dplforum</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="8750">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, &lt;s&gt;and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes&lt;/s&gt;.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:: If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
* make font larger
* long list of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
* Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>5evuwod5osj636tmkz50lw1mexoh7br</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53758</id>
      <parentid>53752</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T11:34:53Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ "wikian" -&gt; "converted wikians"</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="8865">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, &lt;s&gt;and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes&lt;/s&gt;.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?
*** Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
* make font larger
* long list of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
* Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>9svnfuqxayhtbpax8rjpgk55fonc808</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53759</id>
      <parentid>53758</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T11:46:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="9056">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, &lt;s&gt;and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes&lt;/s&gt;.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
* make font larger
* long list of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
* Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>dun6kgkvgd3pri11hswitxzflvgqmer</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53760</id>
      <parentid>53759</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T14:58:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ rsvg</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="9157">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, &lt;s&gt;and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes&lt;/s&gt;.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
* make font larger
* long list of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
* Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>4fkcd9iralzojbmb0k1ggpx4f4htlwf</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53761</id>
      <parentid>53760</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T15:01:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ dplforum forums work</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="9166">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, &lt;s&gt;and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes&lt;/s&gt;.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
* make font larger
* long list of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
* Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>6nmccu6eh2gltdmarf0org286b9bxkc</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53766</id>
      <parentid>53761</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T16:17:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ added some upload licenses</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="9270">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, &lt;s&gt;and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes&lt;/s&gt;.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
* make font larger
* long list of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
* Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ejsncj6ibjure4e496p6fu88a852ekb</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53767</id>
      <parentid>53766</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T16:29:04Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ [[Template:Nethack-343]] &amp;c</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="9467">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, &lt;s&gt;and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes&lt;/s&gt;.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
* make font larger
* long list of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
* Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>cajjiishj9ern5nl44n2zkc1q0whtky</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53768</id>
      <parentid>53767</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T16:37:04Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ 3 more issues</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="9659">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122 source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, &lt;s&gt;and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes&lt;/s&gt;.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
* make font larger
* long list of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
* Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>4qptm8f5arbvv7b8w0lzkb9gzrji1c0</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53769</id>
      <parentid>53768</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T16:37:48Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ pfft.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="9659">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, &lt;s&gt;and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes&lt;/s&gt;.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
* make font larger
* long list of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
* Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ijjuefvi96q7m84o4vh7mgk9n07ogqh</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53770</id>
      <parentid>53769</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T18:21:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ pdfhandler installed</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="9660">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, &lt;s&gt;and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes&lt;/s&gt;.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
* make font larger
* long list of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
* Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ec3bulgoms2utao6wgjq7wxu26vg2pe</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53778</id>
      <parentid>53770</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T19:32:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ fixed two small issues</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="9669">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, &lt;s&gt;and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes&lt;/s&gt;.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
* make font larger
* long list of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
* Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>39edax0bonbp4t8v0f8xo6f8ks41xik</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53779</id>
      <parentid>53778</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T19:40:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MidnightLightning</username>
        <id>540</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="9885">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, &lt;s&gt;and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes&lt;/s&gt;.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
* make font larger
* long list of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
* Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>1wy1pczohjnava64di9972k21o93jjo</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53780</id>
      <parentid>53779</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T19:51:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ make the template styles skin-specific</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="10110">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, &lt;s&gt;and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes&lt;/s&gt;.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
* make font larger
* long list of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
* Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>hcrbp229fioqju9kqfntourw738cmut</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53783</id>
      <parentid>53780</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T19:57:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ edittools should show up now.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="10223">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, &lt;s&gt;and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes&lt;/s&gt;.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
* make font larger
* long list of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
* Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>8eoty7o0w3j90j2l9vdrdsfl1rbro87</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53784</id>
      <parentid>53783</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T20:01:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>simplify edit link</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="10202">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, &lt;s&gt;and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes&lt;/s&gt;.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
* make font larger
* long list of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
* Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>2ymhc6akqlndtxayt4dqw425o71cw3q</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53791</id>
      <parentid>53784</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T20:41:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* We need a new logo */ we have a better SVG renderer now</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="10209">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, &lt;s&gt;and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes&lt;/s&gt;.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
* make font larger
* long list of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
* Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>2k1hth17f4d3btqati6bzz9cq3fvq68</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53809</id>
      <parentid>53791</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T21:40:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ SVG rendering is fine now, top icons work again</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="10477">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, &lt;s&gt;and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes&lt;/s&gt;.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
* make font larger
* long list of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
* Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>rvdfa3bu843dvlymryrnydfqh9pt23l</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53817</id>
      <parentid>53809</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-10T23:21:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ Re: collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="10800">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]
* [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/nethack/forum.html?board_id=m-1-582497&amp;pid=582497 Nethack forum on gamespot.com]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, &lt;s&gt;and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes&lt;/s&gt;.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
* make font larger
* long list of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
* Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>fldbdljrongheg5zmnx4lzkkkqsshie</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53818</id>
      <parentid>53817</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T00:48:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>remove gamespot forum: I had to come back on 4 days and still couldn't post; All wikipedia now correctly link to us except Russian</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="10858">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, &lt;s&gt;and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes&lt;/s&gt;.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
&lt;s&gt;* Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>niskdorxquaqeve454g51zpy5oljvb0</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53820</id>
      <parentid>53818</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T00:53:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ * before &lt;s&gt;</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="10858">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, &lt;s&gt;and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes&lt;/s&gt;.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>0njfkuzgwxuf4ohz1yj3uk6l9ehzwe9</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53824</id>
      <parentid>53820</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T01:10:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ {{SITENAME}}</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="11066">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, &lt;s&gt;and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes&lt;/s&gt;.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>7oawyf3iq85yqrus1a6pxr6bubx3ujr</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53825</id>
      <parentid>53824</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T01:26:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>lots of custom interface text doesn't use SITENAME</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="11212">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, &lt;s&gt;and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes&lt;/s&gt;.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>oawc44luqlf7jaa0jhoib5v516rf5hh</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53836</id>
      <parentid>53825</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T07:17:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>edittools shows up now</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="11221">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, &lt;s&gt;and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes&lt;/s&gt;.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>sd86rw0w2wmsa5dfnam60lv2qefrdne</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53846</id>
      <parentid>53836</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T08:12:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ short urls</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="11377">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, &lt;s&gt;and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes&lt;/s&gt;.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>fk2rsfz74tvulyjxwwih1amxcnr5zq0</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53847</id>
      <parentid>53846</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T08:14:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace; not much privacy on a public wiki</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="11947">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, &lt;s&gt;and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes&lt;/s&gt;.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

* Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>9u79hia5n8nfvob820w7rkfp9u4i33j</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53872</id>
      <parentid>53847</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T09:53:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ *.des files added</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="12045">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, &lt;s&gt;and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes&lt;/s&gt;.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>1oexmxjdmu987f76avbl2ahrezsvgyn</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53883</id>
      <parentid>53872</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T10:20:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ installed quicklink extension</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="12200">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, &lt;s&gt;and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes&lt;/s&gt;.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>2nmhwny4j7deeep3nkemr4vay92k5nw</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53922</id>
      <parentid>53883</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T14:08:18Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>other missing stuff</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="12448">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, &lt;s&gt;and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes&lt;/s&gt;.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>kjy5mix1a9htpn04iz1hk70vq8yzncv</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53926</id>
      <parentid>53922</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T14:20:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>need welcome bot</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="12467">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, &lt;s&gt;and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes&lt;/s&gt;.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* [[Welcome]] bot</text>
      <sha1>67ibubn7xogj83442e8tfnl0ebl4wtc</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53954</id>
      <parentid>53926</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T15:15:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ places to post move announcements to</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="12661">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, &lt;s&gt;and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes&lt;/s&gt;.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* [[Welcome]] bot

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.
Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings.</text>
      <sha1>cn4rd7nrk1ezr1ieha8zzwbgmm42s8k</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53955</id>
      <parentid>53954</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T15:19:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Move announcements at various places */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="13177">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, &lt;s&gt;and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes&lt;/s&gt;.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* [[Welcome]] bot

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.
Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/
FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>gogzi8nv8c9o3hlzmvecxfskgw0gxa5</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53956</id>
      <parentid>53955</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T15:29:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ welcome bot is wikia-specific</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="13324">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, &lt;s&gt;and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes&lt;/s&gt;.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.
Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/
FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>cpvd15g0fnrtqexn6i6e86flg8cjhtg</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53957</id>
      <parentid>53956</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T15:33:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ turned on user emailing.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="13326">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.
Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/
FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ji01y8sqe5ww72jq160v2w14uyawjk4</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53958</id>
      <parentid>53957</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T16:17:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Move announcements at various places */ LJ</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="13473">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/
FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>bgtjlxg4n0erlw4qnuytgwc07qlp9jz</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53959</id>
      <parentid>53958</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T16:28:18Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Move announcements at various places */ FB</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="13527">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>1ztz7m2t1dsxlzinwg2koc0ix1c2rk0</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53963</id>
      <parentid>53959</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T16:43:41Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ welcome bot: mediawiki extension that does it</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="13653">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>r6mu4bujv6mcrsivanyjpl10st42tv2</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53964</id>
      <parentid>53963</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T16:53:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ installed NewUserMessage extension</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="13727">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>47qtok70itiglup96f6pvhgkn1rd4n0</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53965</id>
      <parentid>53964</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T17:22:44Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Unified login (in the remote future) */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="14791">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 09:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login</text>
      <sha1>pfcrxv1rob8hfur91ct21kc6e66ewi2</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>53966</id>
      <parentid>53965</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T17:31:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ no help pages yet; Russian wikipedia done</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="14840">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* Help pages missing. I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login</text>
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      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ sorted a bit</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="14849">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login</text>
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Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NethackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NethackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NethackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
* http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login</text>
      <sha1>o3oiu6kxcse6thcnzcixyf3loy1f9t3</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>54054</id>
      <parentid>53969</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T18:19:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>s/NethackWiki/NetHackWiki/</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="14990">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.

Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* &lt;s&gt;Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki&lt;/s&gt;
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
* http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login</text>
      <sha1>tnnttgu2i0s4tvx1qoykiteydjjinwy</sha1>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="15108">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* &lt;s&gt;Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki&lt;/s&gt;
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
* http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login</text>
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Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Wikihack:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[Wikihack:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text
* &lt;s&gt;Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki&lt;/s&gt;
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
* http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login</text>
      <sha1>15ib3dnhm4nfb42g9adfk275tmx0i61</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56210</id>
      <parentid>56062</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T19:46:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>done with s/Wikihack/NetHackWiki/</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="15194">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
* http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login</text>
      <sha1>g8w4i8a0juniqga0x1vs6thvpp61ts0</sha1>
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    <revision>
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      <timestamp>2010-11-11T20:13:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
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      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="15365">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to send mail to [http://www.wikia.com/mailman/listinfo/nethack-l our mailing list], or leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
* http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login</text>
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      <comment>no mailing list; interwiki links are broken</comment>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="15368">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
* http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis are broken. Example: [[w:c:wowwiki:Main_Page]].

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login</text>
      <sha1>cnwb1dhzlzrg5ajrkjtfctccawfp82b</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56218</id>
      <parentid>56217</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T20:27:12Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */  interwiki links to other wikia do seem to work. my fault.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="15399">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikia, wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
* http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login</text>
      <sha1>spkyl8jkl6v2u8x5yc6674oxcdkrgq8</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56229</id>
      <parentid>56218</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T21:23:14Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ the string wikia needs to be audited for</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="15544">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
* http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login</text>
      <sha1>dqlxutcabkgzyqxdu2kehkyvvyemm32</sha1>
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    <revision>
      <id>56230</id>
      <parentid>56229</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T21:29:24Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Unified login (in the remote future) */ CentralAuth handles all that, but assumes all wikis are on the same servers</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="16091">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
* http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>olnh0nwpbeba8gcxm0lm29k4h0mri0l</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56231</id>
      <parentid>56230</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T21:31:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Unified login (in the remote future) */ scratch that</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="16303">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
* http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>k9t06od5ektj3ucihzlx9uswnnts2pq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56232</id>
      <parentid>56231</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T21:34:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="16482">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
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      <id>56233</id>
      <parentid>56232</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T21:39:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ don't need an extension to autoconfirm</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="16808">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>0wvrqehsrxo1f8cza10s4bu1pvp5snz</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56234</id>
      <parentid>56233</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T21:53:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Announcing edits on IRC? */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="17292">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>5wn4n2myncvsfncro8tsd0lax2wpv4j</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56235</id>
      <parentid>56234</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T22:03:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Google and optimization */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="18220">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* Original and fresh content. When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>n5fwpockkm2q35zibx8118tjme9rhom</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56244</id>
      <parentid>56235</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T22:26:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Google and optimization */ main page is probably getting extra visits due to the move announcements</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="18677">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* Original and fresh content. When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>lwxaijl7hn7m6yuv6klwc59r1bbn8i3</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56246</id>
      <parentid>56244</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T22:32:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Google and optimization */ I think the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="19107">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* Original and fresh content. When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>i7vs617d09h86v6mjkvg4mvfvvgm4d1</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56248</id>
      <parentid>56246</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T22:39:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>we broke lots of links.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="19662">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all], 
&lt;s&gt;* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* Original and fresh content. When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>n5szzwltuuyy3i379ehs1lf13eqg6ei</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56249</id>
      <parentid>56248</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-11T22:40:58Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Google and optimization */ yes, there are broken links</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="19777">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all], 
&lt;s&gt;* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* Original and fresh content. When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>eilfyuni8drxywbllffcq8vlo5to9ou</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56294</id>
      <parentid>56249</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-12T03:34:58Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ please install Extension:RandomInclude</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="20023">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all], 
&lt;s&gt;* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* Original and fresh content. When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>oyswbwhn43uhb6yl5o5pr2bwsyz614k</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56300</id>
      <parentid>56294</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-12T04:36:41Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ could already kluge up something like that with ParserFunctions</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="20345">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all], 
&lt;s&gt;* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* Original and fresh content. When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>2v5r5cyu5xnqv96bt9hekccahz9iaba</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56312</id>
      <parentid>56300</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-12T07:37:44Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Google and optimization */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="20627">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all], 
&lt;s&gt;* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* Original and fresh content. When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>tosgz4tvxls2cqptgztpx8n53uly0jf</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56313</id>
      <parentid>56312</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-12T08:25:53Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Google and optimization */ a main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="21628">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all], 
&lt;s&gt;* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* Original and fresh content. When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>p0agm8mvtaapcrzu4y7kwl2ag1h8r4p</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56337</id>
      <parentid>56313</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-12T15:30:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="21853">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* Original and fresh content. When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>2qz7tzqoirwbevkuxsgfmu9gfdfu0mf</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56338</id>
      <parentid>56337</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-12T15:32:14Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ can't reproduce the missing edit button thing</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="21963">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* Original and fresh content. When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>oeoee89tbqx0hi7nfu6z7utwp2gw5nf</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56348</id>
      <parentid>56338</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-12T17:14:59Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>various replies.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="22358">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
&lt;/s&gt;
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* Original and fresh content. When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>8ajcveng2aa4bq6e555ha8xq0h0jpcv</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56363</id>
      <parentid>56348</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-13T10:14:12Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ color glyph insert box is now movable again.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="22358">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
&lt;/s&gt;
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* Original and fresh content. When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ratgnnptp6bp5r4lnp6i8m8judyu13a</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56373</id>
      <parentid>56363</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-13T13:56:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ i hacked the quicklink extension to work more sensibly.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="22367">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
&lt;/s&gt;
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* Original and fresh content. When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>3n3p20qet1t5y6gkw9ybe56dp3d2dyg</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56376</id>
      <parentid>56373</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-13T14:37:24Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ nothing to change there, really.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="22374">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
&lt;/s&gt;
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* Original and fresh content. When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ern51il7a9agap53zzg276i2c86fho5</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56379</id>
      <parentid>56376</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-13T15:11:42Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ missing edit button: case closed</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="22456">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
&lt;/s&gt;
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* Original and fresh content. When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>pnhca9cyy0e0rznrmgaeuj6cmu2nevj</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56381</id>
      <parentid>56379</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-13T15:17:42Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Announcing edits on IRC? */ yes, please</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="22892">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
&lt;/s&gt;
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* Original and fresh content. When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>43txe3ybaz429q6v4cgu6vd4k28pd97</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56382</id>
      <parentid>56381</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-13T19:32:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Google and optimization */ the main page thing only shows up when the moon is new or full</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="23322">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
&lt;/s&gt;
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* Original and fresh content. When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>1n9ubyud03u34hobpglcibeckti77ej</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56384</id>
      <parentid>56382</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-13T19:41:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="23713">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
&lt;/s&gt;
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)


{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* Original and fresh content. When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>65w3gyekdog2pkxcutyfvd6cd80ei7a</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56568</id>
      <parentid>56384</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-13T20:49:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ showhide should work.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="23821">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)


{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* Original and fresh content. When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>is0tgdrthb8pmb9jqoxa8njagezio03</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56593</id>
      <parentid>56568</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-14T00:46:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ done: help, except images (too boring)</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="23864">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)


{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* Original and fresh content. When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>1bo2zr9mbvu1uelpj4un9t13zdue9mm</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56604</id>
      <parentid>56593</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-14T02:09:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ template to promote other wikis leaving Wikia needs to be put in an active place.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="24203">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;nowiki&gt;={{Template:AWA_Promotion}} should be put where it will be included on every page. Ideally, the sidebar, but that didn't work. Also, rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off.

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* Original and fresh content. When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>1xu9hd6rmo32q6v91hdva555cee4hge</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56605</id>
      <parentid>56604</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-14T02:21:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>closing &lt;/nowiki&gt;, fine-tuning.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="24325">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:21, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* Original and fresh content. When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ixip8yhsvynx5k07c8h5wmkxwwhq0vr</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56613</id>
      <parentid>56605</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-14T03:51:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Google and optimization */ rel="nofollow" is the reason for our abysmal Google rank.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="24777">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:21, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>1ny77vww9pnlswbbdwzbrex0b6z5i73</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56614</id>
      <parentid>56613</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-14T03:55:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ interwiki is very important.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="24871">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you propose, to standardize things?
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:21, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>g7xzbsvm64f8dixysgqn8bxwtwxpvgx</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56615</id>
      <parentid>56614</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-14T04:05:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ edits are discarded if you realize too late you aren't logged in.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="25050">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you propose, to standardize things?
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ox8au29qnyw285tg3gexmwqooln1mfh</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56616</id>
      <parentid>56615</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-14T04:13:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>clarify + linkify interwiki proposal</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="25137">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>e3dwhmdc79m0mooci3qtoqt8zl9vsc2</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56619</id>
      <parentid>56616</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-14T04:32:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>the list of incoming links</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="25225">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted".</text>
      <sha1>501mfnc3ppbo10jvord0iuwxjwkhhq9</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56620</id>
      <parentid>56619</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-14T04:33:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Google and optimization */ .. is private</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="25266">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.</text>
      <sha1>t585krtad25yycyq18eadfjmryzvil9</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56621</id>
      <parentid>56620</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-14T04:53:37Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ fix broken close tag, add comment</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="25811">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.</text>
      <sha1>56103onskglce8dud8o69s76xvmp9np</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56627</id>
      <parentid>56621</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-14T06:13:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ ad links on bottom</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="25916">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.</text>
      <sha1>qmuo7c0l9vt41pevqvru7b34qe9d8nv</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56645</id>
      <parentid>56627</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-14T10:09:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ new ajax login script now live</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="26169">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.</text>
      <sha1>dt0q4ktvm6fxp32ydg58ewe999zuqnz</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56659</id>
      <parentid>56645</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-14T18:58:42Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ need to check '''[[w:'''</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="26300">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.</text>
      <sha1>b7810b0t98fuc4ya1hwvtzbyeq78jsg</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56660</id>
      <parentid>56659</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-14T19:18:38Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ short urls work now. hopefully nothing broke.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="26393">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.</text>
      <sha1>cnxaegkg6w0khml7ohst8f7eo627bt9</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56661</id>
      <parentid>56660</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-14T19:26:58Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ let's not touch the old wiki.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="26491">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.</text>
      <sha1>b1mh0um3qp8k29a2uek86zxcdgg8ryp</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56664</id>
      <parentid>56661</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-14T21:02:42Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>interwiki prefix is '''nethack'''</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="26636">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.</text>
      <sha1>7adynvcixsezlus4tkkhpizuqkb2cg6</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56874</id>
      <parentid>56664</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-15T22:09:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Google and optimization */  Todos from a SEO tutorial</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="27968">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]].

* valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
**Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.</text>
      <sha1>03d2uf8k7xb92enw038yhuxtq3d5hhl</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56875</id>
      <parentid>56874</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-15T22:11:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Google and optimization */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="28054">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
**Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.</text>
      <sha1>nat2qhqcf5mljxwggylsj1dhit15drv</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56876</id>
      <parentid>56875</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-15T22:26:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>let's gradually replace the "ad" links with sites that link back, and make it more stable over time.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="28355">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
**Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.</text>
      <sha1>nlzinodmcw57ocn68pc4wwozv3fhknj</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56877</id>
      <parentid>56876</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-15T22:28:42Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="28382">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
**Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.</text>
      <sha1>cvj9kny4mtcewafkn2cdwo97nx93i0c</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56878</id>
      <parentid>56877</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-15T22:35:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Google and optimization */ more SEO stuff</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="28522">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
**Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html</text>
      <sha1>7j2q46h0o74d1fwbd42t07dhdd0dh55</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56879</id>
      <parentid>56878</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-15T22:36:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Google and optimization */ 1 more link</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="28576">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
**Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].</text>
      <sha1>p32rhsnxpz0qle9t3wcjslufu43gxjn</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56881</id>
      <parentid>56879</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-15T22:58:14Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Google and optimization */ duplicate content can hurt us.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="28672">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
**Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]</text>
      <sha1>tau4jwifrj3m5g8ghdoznz9n7ui4syi</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56905</id>
      <parentid>56881</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-16T18:23:42Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Announcing edits on IRC? */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="28792">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
**Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]</text>
      <sha1>40wu25t1cr0p2iyckmda8hxjihda9bn</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56918</id>
      <parentid>56905</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-16T21:48:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ firefox does not automatically fill in the password at the new login form.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="28896">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
**Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]</text>
      <sha1>79trhw67pgzn3tcdh5ffkm4dbm46aug</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56956</id>
      <parentid>56918</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-17T08:48:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Source code syntax highlighting? */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="29293">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
**Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>fl4m7iyxnjxzsxgnmguc7l9um5wcqju</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56992</id>
      <parentid>56956</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-18T10:02:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Source code syntax highlighting? */ yes, we should</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="29372">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
**Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>998cuhvhogcomilbbfx25iirbnz8yho</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56995</id>
      <parentid>56992</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-18T10:14:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Google and optimization */ see [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="29539">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
**Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>r6lge0bduhjwzxio079hhqgq448lfvt</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56996</id>
      <parentid>56995</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-18T11:44:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Google and optimization */ please fix broken scripted links and hide Mediawiki keywords from Googlebot</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="30456">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
**Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack wiki''
** Please hide the MediaWiki navigation keywords from bots: edit, navigate, search, and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>5ndrkhx8qofsuferdrg3scc1p2wsv2q</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56997</id>
      <parentid>56996</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-18T11:50:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Google and optimization */ "stub" is another keyword we don't want to rank high for. Link anchor issue.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="30549">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
**Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
** Please hide MediaWiki navigation keywords from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>q5s9p5disjuqfk5okb8mf836zlk47oq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56998</id>
      <parentid>56997</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-18T12:04:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Google and optimization */ robots.txt keeps Googlebot out of the forums. Please fix.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="30636">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
**Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
** Please hide MediaWiki navigation keywords from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>83jpazis4h8q4ah6ot3g9bn8vnoso2c</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>56999</id>
      <parentid>56998</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-18T12:09:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Google and optimization */ Google shouldn't interpret png as a keyword in the monster template</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="30658">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
**Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>kg6kp2rcw0ids6c3uejyrax5zqd7dj8</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57004</id>
      <parentid>56999</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-18T13:02:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Google and optimization */ reply x 2</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="31194">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
**Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].
*** The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>8txcwmehw136fehtx3h4z8gyw4guyco</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57005</id>
      <parentid>57004</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-18T13:19:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Google and optimization */ more replies</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="31850">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
**Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].
*** The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>g7t18njvjh98tyn2g4i82wnnsv05zqi</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57006</id>
      <parentid>57005</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-18T14:03:01Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>various replies.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="32756">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
**Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].
*** The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>jcgyj9bx5jjfibe45utt3d15hlozm18</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57007</id>
      <parentid>57006</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-18T14:07:14Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Google and optimization */ s/NetHack wiki/NetHack Wiki/</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="32756">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
**Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].
*** The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>1bect2u011dzz3pzy64dymivck79i1z</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57010</id>
      <parentid>57007</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-18T14:35:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Google and optimization */ I prefer NetHackWiki.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="33146">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
**Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].
*** The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>dxojeertcpjklhclblt6x4urie8iew0</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57011</id>
      <parentid>57010</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-18T14:40:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Google and optimization */ non-valid html is MW devel business.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="33323">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].
*** The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>f9e1aeimopbr7zxgucmgjhdsda5faan</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57012</id>
      <parentid>57011</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-18T14:45:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="34577">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].
*** The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>13w7n9apnissx35v846arnvmo62o8ik</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57013</id>
      <parentid>57012</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-18T14:46:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="34588">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].
*** The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>78xyl2d18tne3mv0vugt9kc20r6ekrl</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57014</id>
      <parentid>57013</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-18T14:48:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search */ not that many incoming links use NetHackWiki as anchor text</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="34651">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].
*** The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>kty9uy9yvemj77kczf0p1ed9gamyqj8</sha1>
    </revision>
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      <id>57015</id>
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      <comment>/* Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search */ comments</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="35327">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].
*** The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>qrv5skqh6cx5scqaqsi1ec6pnfgkx0v</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57017</id>
      <parentid>57015</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-18T15:07:23Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="35442">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].
*** The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack wiki to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>sglu93cqnlzv7oqqea1x2mk1stsuzng</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57018</id>
      <parentid>57017</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-18T15:08:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="35444">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].
*** The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>8gfr16o7x6hiql5bnecwo2vhjy2q4pz</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57020</id>
      <parentid>57018</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-18T15:22:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Google and optimization */ sitemap done.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="35735">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].
*** The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>g1ahiu0ebq24s3mjgn4aituu13ipl1g</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57021</id>
      <parentid>57020</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-18T15:28:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search */  what Google thinks we currently stand for</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="36027">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].
*** The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>cdho054mowqk443fs3ptv6lyi7ms5hz</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57030</id>
      <parentid>57021</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-18T17:35:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Source code syntax highlighting? */ function redirect pages, what format?</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="36580">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].
*** The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>letdyacplolq7dum3vizlmnb5kx6vvt</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57052</id>
      <parentid>57030</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-18T20:32:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Source code syntax highlighting? */ src/feel_cockatrice would be nice</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="36809">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].
*** The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>au13zdrth7fx40x6ue7in38xvszuizf</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57053</id>
      <parentid>57052</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-18T20:50:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Source code syntax highlighting? */ yes, i know.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="36973">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].
*** The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>7u64ihxrpyjckk58soq6jfc75mpjlmw</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57055</id>
      <parentid>57053</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-19T00:06:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Source code syntax highlighting? */ [[Source:function_name()]]?</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="37566">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].
*** The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>6mlactpksv3lpy7enx9oy40cw27cx5v</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57112</id>
      <parentid>57055</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-20T06:55:18Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Google and optimization */ Where Googlebot found the bad link http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="37675">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].
*** The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>fbamfnvxzsc17pwntttm8ocwdzfqo07</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57113</id>
      <parentid>57112</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-20T06:57:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Google and optimization */ www.nethackwiki.com redirects to nethackwiki.com</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="37746">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].
*** The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>0mtofoue3ycnd38x8mofmdbiia1lbs4</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57143</id>
      <parentid>57113</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-20T08:39:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Google and optimization */ can't do anything about it, and done.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="38069">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>lxfznzppnrstj3esowgynyi1i28ll6h</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57144</id>
      <parentid>57143</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-20T08:44:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Source code syntax highlighting? */ hacked on...</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="38379">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>2b0yskhywpeola67fi0vg1bohsbe6hm</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57301</id>
      <parentid>57144</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-20T19:21:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Source code syntax highlighting? */ nh343 src files use syntax coloring</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="38573">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>fbdvgo2o1yhwhn8clfo2pkv6zeh7qj0</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57322</id>
      <parentid>57301</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-21T13:50:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>87.171.104.177</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>4 pages of archives</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="38618">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>8k9s29pmnnmvv8ax8zigkjhftt2gscb</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57335</id>
      <parentid>57322</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-21T15:41:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Source code syntax highlighting? */ is the current function name url good?</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="38822">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>rnikp98adxnbymgieh66ged8v8gyzo9</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57360</id>
      <parentid>57335</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-21T16:34:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>fine</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="38882">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>7vxs20pc84k9tlrnhk5ejtk75skq4lw</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57389</id>
      <parentid>57360</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-21T22:22:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* robots.txt and forums */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="40328">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 User-agent: *
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
# Disallow: Special:Search
# Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:22, 21 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>juje6a4ykbjf0ud6829qck8rhxmlpt8</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57390</id>
      <parentid>57389</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-21T22:22:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Proposed robots.txt */ formatting</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="40328">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 User-agent: *
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:22, 21 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>5v6of99m36y7ghknqf7fqcj0t4jit6q</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57403</id>
      <parentid>57390</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-22T02:08:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proposed robots.txt */ clarify</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="40404">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 User-agent: *
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URL previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>tqom22cahdwg0hxew5bo9f50xto7e3x</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57404</id>
      <parentid>57403</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-22T02:09:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Proposed robots.txt */ typo</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="40405">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 User-agent: *
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>nl4h2nfkr7xbinf6gmiyfw0nug10cnp</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57409</id>
      <parentid>57404</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-22T06:57:18Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* robots.txt and forums */ simpler</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="41380">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 User-agent: *
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>k86ktyyezodw5uymkhrsbkkmm1qa1t8</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57410</id>
      <parentid>57409</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-22T07:01:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Proposed robots.txt */ tweak, reorder lines: some bots stop at the first matching line</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="41440">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 User-agent: *
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>2h2mdsri5ymlx4628407mw0h3mdu4ya</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57411</id>
      <parentid>57410</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-22T08:56:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>PeterGFin</username>
        <id>635</id>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="41627">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 User-agent: *
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>htj57ehx0lnjipvqq3zfhjtanpxm5dq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57412</id>
      <parentid>57411</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-22T09:08:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Login form bug */ add section heading + reply</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="41877">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 User-agent: *
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>4ycm173410t97m92eyn6suwh16h9cuc</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57417</id>
      <parentid>57412</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-22T14:08:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proposed robots.txt */ reply</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="43671">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

 User-agent: *
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Allow: /
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>nzsc84k7kn9f15npjw1t07i703v2l7j</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57419</id>
      <parentid>57417</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-22T14:37:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proposed robots.txt */ replies</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="44602">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Allow: /
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>kdcc81ka66iks7d6rp4bxvneg0e67fx</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57422</id>
      <parentid>57419</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-22T15:10:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Incorporated fixes by Ilmari Karonen, including those on IRC</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="45330">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 ##paranoia: some other page might generate such links
 Disallow: /*?action=
 Disallow: /*?*&amp;action=
 ## Spiders need access to RecentChanges and Categories, else they get stuck or stale
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 ## Most of the pages in these namespaces and their talk are neither fresh, nor original content, nor on-topic.
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 ## The links to the forums need to be Google-valid, so special case it
 ## Fixme: patch MediaWiki to insert &lt;meta canonical=...&gt; b/c rotating links to the forums
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 ## recommended by MediaWiki; all "private" URL point there
 Disallow: /mediawiki
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Incorporated your fixes, including those on #nethackwiki. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ibdiydya83vj5iwqlqwazfk6h1hmpqj</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57423</id>
      <parentid>57422</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-22T15:14:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Proposed robots.txt */ oops</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="45394">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 ##paranoia: some other page might generate such links
 Disallow: /*?action=
 Disallow: /*?*&amp;action=
 ## Spiders need access to RecentChanges and Categories, else they get stuck or stale
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3AAllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 ## Most of the pages in these namespaces and their talk are neither fresh, nor original content, nor on-topic.
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 ## The links to the forums need to be Google-valid, so special case it
 ## Fixme: patch MediaWiki to insert &lt;meta canonical=...&gt; b/c rotating links to the forums
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 ## recommended by MediaWiki; all "private" URL point there
 Disallow: /mediawiki
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Incorporated your fixes, including those on #nethackwiki. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>g83p2rhd3xkt40ndlvx2ylje7vlqh5q</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57428</id>
      <parentid>57423</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-22T16:11:13Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ Extension:CorrectMainPageTitle</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="45533">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

* Please intastall [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:CorrectMainPageTitle|CorrectMainPageTitle]] --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 ##paranoia: some other page might generate such links
 Disallow: /*?action=
 Disallow: /*?*&amp;action=
 ## Spiders need access to RecentChanges and Categories, else they get stuck or stale
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3AAllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 ## Most of the pages in these namespaces and their talk are neither fresh, nor original content, nor on-topic.
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 ## The links to the forums need to be Google-valid, so special case it
 ## Fixme: patch MediaWiki to insert &lt;meta canonical=...&gt; b/c rotating links to the forums
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 ## recommended by MediaWiki; all "private" URL point there
 Disallow: /mediawiki
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Incorporated your fixes, including those on #nethackwiki. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>n2y6wyde43ubh5wh843jyzmnh0aetjh</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57430</id>
      <parentid>57428</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-22T16:25:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proposed robots.txt */ perhaps exclude [[Special:AllPages]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="45746">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

* Please intastall [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:CorrectMainPageTitle|CorrectMainPageTitle]] --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 ##paranoia: some other page might generate such links
 Disallow: /*?action=
 Disallow: /*?*&amp;action=
 ## Spiders need access to RecentChanges and Categories, else they get stuck or stale
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 ## Most of the pages in these namespaces and their talk are neither fresh, nor original content, nor on-topic.
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 ## The links to the forums need to be Google-valid, so special case it
 ## Fixme: patch MediaWiki to insert &lt;meta canonical=...&gt; b/c rotating links to the forums
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 ## recommended by MediaWiki; all "private" URL point there
 Disallow: /mediawiki
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Incorporated your fixes, including those on #nethackwiki. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I'm getting second thoughts about [[Special:AllPages]]. Google explicitly does not want to see results of internal searches, and this is not that different. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>m4iqlk9v5aflpowosu0rp6m78sfw4rm</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57433</id>
      <parentid>57430</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-22T16:46:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Login form bug */ solved</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="45986">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

* Please intastall [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:CorrectMainPageTitle|CorrectMainPageTitle]] --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 ##paranoia: some other page might generate such links
 Disallow: /*?action=
 Disallow: /*?*&amp;action=
 ## Spiders need access to RecentChanges and Categories, else they get stuck or stale
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 ## Most of the pages in these namespaces and their talk are neither fresh, nor original content, nor on-topic.
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 ## The links to the forums need to be Google-valid, so special case it
 ## Fixme: patch MediaWiki to insert &lt;meta canonical=...&gt; b/c rotating links to the forums
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 ## recommended by MediaWiki; all "private" URL point there
 Disallow: /mediawiki
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Incorporated your fixes, including those on #nethackwiki. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I'm getting second thoughts about [[Special:AllPages]]. Google explicitly does not want to see results of internal searches, and this is not that different. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Solved.  I'd simply left out the forward slash from the closing &amp;lt;/form&amp;gt; tag in the dialog, which FF apparently ignored but which caused IE to freak out.  Oops.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>sju7j6k0a5bnofy12xgzme9jcsxguuk</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57434</id>
      <parentid>57433</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-22T16:52:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proposed robots.txt */ [[Special:AllPages]] seems more like a site map to me, but it probably doesn't matter either way</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="46271">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

* Please intastall [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:CorrectMainPageTitle|CorrectMainPageTitle]] --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 ##paranoia: some other page might generate such links
 Disallow: /*?action=
 Disallow: /*?*&amp;action=
 ## Spiders need access to RecentChanges and Categories, else they get stuck or stale
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 ## Most of the pages in these namespaces and their talk are neither fresh, nor original content, nor on-topic.
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 ## The links to the forums need to be Google-valid, so special case it
 ## Fixme: patch MediaWiki to insert &lt;meta canonical=...&gt; b/c rotating links to the forums
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 ## recommended by MediaWiki; all "private" URL point there
 Disallow: /mediawiki
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Incorporated your fixes, including those on #nethackwiki. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I'm getting second thoughts about [[Special:AllPages]]. Google explicitly does not want to see results of internal searches, and this is not that different. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: I'd say it's more like a site map, which they presumably do want to see.  But it probably doesn't matter much either way, since it's mostly redundant to the XML sitemaps, and we don't link to it prominently.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Solved.  I'd simply left out the forward slash from the closing &amp;lt;/form&amp;gt; tag in the dialog, which FF apparently ignored but which caused IE to freak out.  Oops.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>c3s3020f2f3a9htrzxy72zg6jrxn3hq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57446</id>
      <parentid>57434</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-22T19:33:01Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Proposed robots.txt */ url canonicalization format</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="46313">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

* Please intastall [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:CorrectMainPageTitle|CorrectMainPageTitle]] --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 ##paranoia: some other page might generate such links
 Disallow: /*?action=
 Disallow: /*?*&amp;action=
 ## Spiders need access to RecentChanges and Categories, else they get stuck or stale
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 ## Most of the pages in these namespaces and their talk are neither fresh, nor original content, nor on-topic.
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 ## The links to the forums need to be Google-valid, so special case it
 ## Fixme: patch MediaWiki to insert &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;link rel=”canonical” href=”http:.../&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; into rotating links to the forums
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 ## recommended by MediaWiki; all "private" URL point there
 Disallow: /mediawiki
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Incorporated your fixes, including those on #nethackwiki. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I'm getting second thoughts about [[Special:AllPages]]. Google explicitly does not want to see results of internal searches, and this is not that different. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: I'd say it's more like a site map, which they presumably do want to see.  But it probably doesn't matter much either way, since it's mostly redundant to the XML sitemaps, and we don't link to it prominently.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Solved.  I'd simply left out the forward slash from the closing &amp;lt;/form&amp;gt; tag in the dialog, which FF apparently ignored but which caused IE to freak out.  Oops.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>3y3h9f14nalu88bc0w3gjluhmx8mvai</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57472</id>
      <parentid>57446</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-23T02:49:14Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Google and optimization */ sitemap broken: is says http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="46618">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

* Please intastall [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:CorrectMainPageTitle|CorrectMainPageTitle]] --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]]. I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 ##paranoia: some other page might generate such links
 Disallow: /*?action=
 Disallow: /*?*&amp;action=
 ## Spiders need access to RecentChanges and Categories, else they get stuck or stale
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 ## Most of the pages in these namespaces and their talk are neither fresh, nor original content, nor on-topic.
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 ## The links to the forums need to be Google-valid, so special case it
 ## Fixme: patch MediaWiki to insert &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;link rel=”canonical” href=”http:.../&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; into rotating links to the forums
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 ## recommended by MediaWiki; all "private" URL point there
 Disallow: /mediawiki
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Incorporated your fixes, including those on #nethackwiki. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I'm getting second thoughts about [[Special:AllPages]]. Google explicitly does not want to see results of internal searches, and this is not that different. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: I'd say it's more like a site map, which they presumably do want to see.  But it probably doesn't matter much either way, since it's mostly redundant to the XML sitemaps, and we don't link to it prominently.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Solved.  I'd simply left out the forward slash from the closing &amp;lt;/form&amp;gt; tag in the dialog, which FF apparently ignored but which caused IE to freak out.  Oops.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>pym9yyx9mi79be6jr2putnj2n3muucg</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57473</id>
      <parentid>57472</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-23T02:51:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Google and optimization */ oops</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="46625">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

* Please intastall [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:CorrectMainPageTitle|CorrectMainPageTitle]] --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** [[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 ##paranoia: some other page might generate such links
 Disallow: /*?action=
 Disallow: /*?*&amp;action=
 ## Spiders need access to RecentChanges and Categories, else they get stuck or stale
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 ## Most of the pages in these namespaces and their talk are neither fresh, nor original content, nor on-topic.
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 ## The links to the forums need to be Google-valid, so special case it
 ## Fixme: patch MediaWiki to insert &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;link rel=”canonical” href=”http:.../&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; into rotating links to the forums
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 ## recommended by MediaWiki; all "private" URL point there
 Disallow: /mediawiki
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Incorporated your fixes, including those on #nethackwiki. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I'm getting second thoughts about [[Special:AllPages]]. Google explicitly does not want to see results of internal searches, and this is not that different. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: I'd say it's more like a site map, which they presumably do want to see.  But it probably doesn't matter much either way, since it's mostly redundant to the XML sitemaps, and we don't link to it prominently.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Solved.  I'd simply left out the forward slash from the closing &amp;lt;/form&amp;gt; tag in the dialog, which FF apparently ignored but which caused IE to freak out.  Oops.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>clhsiru7afmzu717xxskod6by8b6dri</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>57474</id>
      <parentid>57473</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-23T02:52:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Google and optimization */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="46632">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

* Please intastall [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:CorrectMainPageTitle|CorrectMainPageTitle]] --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 ##paranoia: some other page might generate such links
 Disallow: /*?action=
 Disallow: /*?*&amp;action=
 ## Spiders need access to RecentChanges and Categories, else they get stuck or stale
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 ## Most of the pages in these namespaces and their talk are neither fresh, nor original content, nor on-topic.
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 ## The links to the forums need to be Google-valid, so special case it
 ## Fixme: patch MediaWiki to insert &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;link rel=”canonical” href=”http:.../&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; into rotating links to the forums
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 ## recommended by MediaWiki; all "private" URL point there
 Disallow: /mediawiki
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Incorporated your fixes, including those on #nethackwiki. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I'm getting second thoughts about [[Special:AllPages]]. Google explicitly does not want to see results of internal searches, and this is not that different. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: I'd say it's more like a site map, which they presumably do want to see.  But it probably doesn't matter much either way, since it's mostly redundant to the XML sitemaps, and we don't link to it prominently.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Solved.  I'd simply left out the forward slash from the closing &amp;lt;/form&amp;gt; tag in the dialog, which FF apparently ignored but which caused IE to freak out.  Oops.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>c132okwxxspxjt7aoxzpm52tkuv6zc0</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>59270</id>
      <parentid>57474</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-23T20:31:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Google and optimization */ bought Google ads; willing to improve</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="46796">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

* Please intastall [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:CorrectMainPageTitle|CorrectMainPageTitle]] --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 ##paranoia: some other page might generate such links
 Disallow: /*?action=
 Disallow: /*?*&amp;action=
 ## Spiders need access to RecentChanges and Categories, else they get stuck or stale
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 ## Most of the pages in these namespaces and their talk are neither fresh, nor original content, nor on-topic.
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 ## The links to the forums need to be Google-valid, so special case it
 ## Fixme: patch MediaWiki to insert &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;link rel=”canonical” href=”http:.../&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; into rotating links to the forums
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 ## recommended by MediaWiki; all "private" URL point there
 Disallow: /mediawiki
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Incorporated your fixes, including those on #nethackwiki. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I'm getting second thoughts about [[Special:AllPages]]. Google explicitly does not want to see results of internal searches, and this is not that different. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: I'd say it's more like a site map, which they presumably do want to see.  But it probably doesn't matter much either way, since it's mostly redundant to the XML sitemaps, and we don't link to it prominently.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Solved.  I'd simply left out the forward slash from the closing &amp;lt;/form&amp;gt; tag in the dialog, which FF apparently ignored but which caused IE to freak out.  Oops.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>8na8j6h629s5ud93c2pau14un26hr61</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>59617</id>
      <parentid>59270</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-23T20:57:53Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Source code syntax highlighting? */ added src ref redirects</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="46892">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

* Please intastall [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:CorrectMainPageTitle|CorrectMainPageTitle]] --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 ##paranoia: some other page might generate such links
 Disallow: /*?action=
 Disallow: /*?*&amp;action=
 ## Spiders need access to RecentChanges and Categories, else they get stuck or stale
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 ## Most of the pages in these namespaces and their talk are neither fresh, nor original content, nor on-topic.
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 ## The links to the forums need to be Google-valid, so special case it
 ## Fixme: patch MediaWiki to insert &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;link rel=”canonical” href=”http:.../&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; into rotating links to the forums
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 ## recommended by MediaWiki; all "private" URL point there
 Disallow: /mediawiki
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Incorporated your fixes, including those on #nethackwiki. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I'm getting second thoughts about [[Special:AllPages]]. Google explicitly does not want to see results of internal searches, and this is not that different. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: I'd say it's more like a site map, which they presumably do want to see.  But it probably doesn't matter much either way, since it's mostly redundant to the XML sitemaps, and we don't link to it prominently.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Solved.  I'd simply left out the forward slash from the closing &amp;lt;/form&amp;gt; tag in the dialog, which FF apparently ignored but which caused IE to freak out.  Oops.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>c9ub7u17hkvlrjcx4i9962q19a9mchu</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>59849</id>
      <parentid>59617</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-24T15:31:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Too many forums? */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="47160">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

* Please intastall [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:CorrectMainPageTitle|CorrectMainPageTitle]] --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 ##paranoia: some other page might generate such links
 Disallow: /*?action=
 Disallow: /*?*&amp;action=
 ## Spiders need access to RecentChanges and Categories, else they get stuck or stale
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 ## Most of the pages in these namespaces and their talk are neither fresh, nor original content, nor on-topic.
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 ## The links to the forums need to be Google-valid, so special case it
 ## Fixme: patch MediaWiki to insert &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;link rel=”canonical” href=”http:.../&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; into rotating links to the forums
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 ## recommended by MediaWiki; all "private" URL point there
 Disallow: /mediawiki
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Incorporated your fixes, including those on #nethackwiki. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I'm getting second thoughts about [[Special:AllPages]]. Google explicitly does not want to see results of internal searches, and this is not that different. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: I'd say it's more like a site map, which they presumably do want to see.  But it probably doesn't matter much either way, since it's mostly redundant to the XML sitemaps, and we don't link to it prominently.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Solved.  I'd simply left out the forward slash from the closing &amp;lt;/form&amp;gt; tag in the dialog, which FF apparently ignored but which caused IE to freak out.  Oops.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>rcjvu4uhu56ftob1n3x4kgd3j497sqi</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>59850</id>
      <parentid>59849</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-24T15:37:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ CorrectMainPageTitle added.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="47233">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Please intastall [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:CorrectMainPageTitle|CorrectMainPageTitle]] --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
**Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:37, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 ##paranoia: some other page might generate such links
 Disallow: /*?action=
 Disallow: /*?*&amp;action=
 ## Spiders need access to RecentChanges and Categories, else they get stuck or stale
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 ## Most of the pages in these namespaces and their talk are neither fresh, nor original content, nor on-topic.
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 ## The links to the forums need to be Google-valid, so special case it
 ## Fixme: patch MediaWiki to insert &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;link rel=”canonical” href=”http:.../&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; into rotating links to the forums
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 ## recommended by MediaWiki; all "private" URL point there
 Disallow: /mediawiki
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Incorporated your fixes, including those on #nethackwiki. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I'm getting second thoughts about [[Special:AllPages]]. Google explicitly does not want to see results of internal searches, and this is not that different. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: I'd say it's more like a site map, which they presumably do want to see.  But it probably doesn't matter much either way, since it's mostly redundant to the XML sitemaps, and we don't link to it prominently.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Solved.  I'd simply left out the forward slash from the closing &amp;lt;/form&amp;gt; tag in the dialog, which FF apparently ignored but which caused IE to freak out.  Oops.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>0cs68lt3iqq0rq10aky0u1xxr5t3go1</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>59851</id>
      <parentid>59850</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-24T15:39:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>add clear</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="47244">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Please intastall [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:CorrectMainPageTitle|CorrectMainPageTitle]] --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
**Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:37, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 ##paranoia: some other page might generate such links
 Disallow: /*?action=
 Disallow: /*?*&amp;action=
 ## Spiders need access to RecentChanges and Categories, else they get stuck or stale
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 ## Most of the pages in these namespaces and their talk are neither fresh, nor original content, nor on-topic.
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 ## The links to the forums need to be Google-valid, so special case it
 ## Fixme: patch MediaWiki to insert &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;link rel=”canonical” href=”http:.../&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; into rotating links to the forums
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 ## recommended by MediaWiki; all "private" URL point there
 Disallow: /mediawiki
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Incorporated your fixes, including those on #nethackwiki. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I'm getting second thoughts about [[Special:AllPages]]. Google explicitly does not want to see results of internal searches, and this is not that different. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: I'd say it's more like a site map, which they presumably do want to see.  But it probably doesn't matter much either way, since it's mostly redundant to the XML sitemaps, and we don't link to it prominently.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Solved.  I'd simply left out the forward slash from the closing &amp;lt;/form&amp;gt; tag in the dialog, which FF apparently ignored but which caused IE to freak out.  Oops.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ax06r78wsds8dae62q3ms1uo92udtqn</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>59852</id>
      <parentid>59851</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-24T15:53:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>yes, too many forums.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="47306">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Please intastall [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:CorrectMainPageTitle|CorrectMainPageTitle]] --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
**Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:37, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 ##paranoia: some other page might generate such links
 Disallow: /*?action=
 Disallow: /*?*&amp;action=
 ## Spiders need access to RecentChanges and Categories, else they get stuck or stale
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 ## Most of the pages in these namespaces and their talk are neither fresh, nor original content, nor on-topic.
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 ## The links to the forums need to be Google-valid, so special case it
 ## Fixme: patch MediaWiki to insert &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;link rel=”canonical” href=”http:.../&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; into rotating links to the forums
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 ## recommended by MediaWiki; all "private" URL point there
 Disallow: /mediawiki
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Incorporated your fixes, including those on #nethackwiki. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I'm getting second thoughts about [[Special:AllPages]]. Google explicitly does not want to see results of internal searches, and this is not that different. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: I'd say it's more like a site map, which they presumably do want to see.  But it probably doesn't matter much either way, since it's mostly redundant to the XML sitemaps, and we don't link to it prominently.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Solved.  I'd simply left out the forward slash from the closing &amp;lt;/form&amp;gt; tag in the dialog, which FF apparently ignored but which caused IE to freak out.  Oops.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>5a0wrhte5ar5o1cfzmxnwetspv56t5a</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>59901</id>
      <parentid>59852</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-25T03:25:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ion frigate</username>
        <id>375</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Source code syntax highlighting? */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="47552">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Please intastall [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:CorrectMainPageTitle|CorrectMainPageTitle]] --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
**Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:37, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 ##paranoia: some other page might generate such links
 Disallow: /*?action=
 Disallow: /*?*&amp;action=
 ## Spiders need access to RecentChanges and Categories, else they get stuck or stale
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 ## Most of the pages in these namespaces and their talk are neither fresh, nor original content, nor on-topic.
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 ## The links to the forums need to be Google-valid, so special case it
 ## Fixme: patch MediaWiki to insert &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;link rel=”canonical” href=”http:.../&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; into rotating links to the forums
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 ## recommended by MediaWiki; all "private" URL point there
 Disallow: /mediawiki
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Incorporated your fixes, including those on #nethackwiki. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I'm getting second thoughts about [[Special:AllPages]]. Google explicitly does not want to see results of internal searches, and this is not that different. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: I'd say it's more like a site map, which they presumably do want to see.  But it probably doesn't matter much either way, since it's mostly redundant to the XML sitemaps, and we don't link to it prominently.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Solved.  I'd simply left out the forward slash from the closing &amp;lt;/form&amp;gt; tag in the dialog, which FF apparently ignored but which caused IE to freak out.  Oops.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ohtgtnqp7lxypsgbvgecm0ao0nvxqgs</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>59929</id>
      <parentid>59901</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-25T19:20:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ please install an extension to control the way we appear in Google search results</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="47952">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Please intastall [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:CorrectMainPageTitle|CorrectMainPageTitle]] --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
**Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:37, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* Please let me specify how we are described on the Google search results page. [[MediaWiki:Description]] doesn't work anymore. One of [[mw:Extension:MetaDescriptionTag]], [[mw:MediaWiki Description]], [[mw:Extension:ExplicitDescription]] should solve the issue.
** Something like [[mw:Extension:OpenGraphMeta]] would help make it easy to link to us. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:20, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 ##paranoia: some other page might generate such links
 Disallow: /*?action=
 Disallow: /*?*&amp;action=
 ## Spiders need access to RecentChanges and Categories, else they get stuck or stale
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 ## Most of the pages in these namespaces and their talk are neither fresh, nor original content, nor on-topic.
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 ## The links to the forums need to be Google-valid, so special case it
 ## Fixme: patch MediaWiki to insert &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;link rel=”canonical” href=”http:.../&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; into rotating links to the forums
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 ## recommended by MediaWiki; all "private" URL point there
 Disallow: /mediawiki
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Incorporated your fixes, including those on #nethackwiki. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I'm getting second thoughts about [[Special:AllPages]]. Google explicitly does not want to see results of internal searches, and this is not that different. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: I'd say it's more like a site map, which they presumably do want to see.  But it probably doesn't matter much either way, since it's mostly redundant to the XML sitemaps, and we don't link to it prominently.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Solved.  I'd simply left out the forward slash from the closing &amp;lt;/form&amp;gt; tag in the dialog, which FF apparently ignored but which caused IE to freak out.  Oops.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>mr6v40as14t49bxuvp2h484chc1cvv1</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>59930</id>
      <parentid>59929</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-25T19:29:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ linko</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="48049">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Please intastall [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:CorrectMainPageTitle|CorrectMainPageTitle]] --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
**Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:37, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* Please let me specify how we are described on the Google search results page. [[MediaWiki:Description]] doesn't work anymore. One of [[mw:Extension:MetaDescriptionTag]], [[mw:Extension:Description2]], [[mw:Extension:ExplicitDescription]], [http://jimbojw.com/wiki/index.php?title=MetaKeywordsTag_Extension MetaKeywordsTag_Extension]  should solve the issue.
** Something like [[mw:Extension:OpenGraphMeta]] would help make it easy to link to us. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:20, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 ##paranoia: some other page might generate such links
 Disallow: /*?action=
 Disallow: /*?*&amp;action=
 ## Spiders need access to RecentChanges and Categories, else they get stuck or stale
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 ## Most of the pages in these namespaces and their talk are neither fresh, nor original content, nor on-topic.
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 ## The links to the forums need to be Google-valid, so special case it
 ## Fixme: patch MediaWiki to insert &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;link rel=”canonical” href=”http:.../&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; into rotating links to the forums
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 ## recommended by MediaWiki; all "private" URL point there
 Disallow: /mediawiki
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Incorporated your fixes, including those on #nethackwiki. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I'm getting second thoughts about [[Special:AllPages]]. Google explicitly does not want to see results of internal searches, and this is not that different. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: I'd say it's more like a site map, which they presumably do want to see.  But it probably doesn't matter much either way, since it's mostly redundant to the XML sitemaps, and we don't link to it prominently.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Solved.  I'd simply left out the forward slash from the closing &amp;lt;/form&amp;gt; tag in the dialog, which FF apparently ignored but which caused IE to freak out.  Oops.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>faoves1vtgfos85kjbedxzqahsmg6o2</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>59932</id>
      <parentid>59930</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-25T20:22:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ installed ArticleMetaDescription extension from Wikia.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="48288">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Please intastall [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:CorrectMainPageTitle|CorrectMainPageTitle]] --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
**Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:37, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
* Please let me specify how we are described on the Google search results page. [[MediaWiki:Description]] doesn't work anymore. One of [[mw:Extension:MetaDescriptionTag]], [[mw:Extension:Description2]], [[mw:Extension:ExplicitDescription]], [http://jimbojw.com/wiki/index.php?title=MetaKeywordsTag_Extension MetaKeywordsTag_Extension]  should solve the issue.
** Something like [[mw:Extension:OpenGraphMeta]] would help make it easy to link to us. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:20, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
***I've installed the ArticleMetaDescription extension from wikia, so [[MediaWiki:Description]] works now. All other pages get their description from the first paragraph in the article. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:22, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 ##paranoia: some other page might generate such links
 Disallow: /*?action=
 Disallow: /*?*&amp;action=
 ## Spiders need access to RecentChanges and Categories, else they get stuck or stale
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 ## Most of the pages in these namespaces and their talk are neither fresh, nor original content, nor on-topic.
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 ## The links to the forums need to be Google-valid, so special case it
 ## Fixme: patch MediaWiki to insert &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;link rel=”canonical” href=”http:.../&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; into rotating links to the forums
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 ## recommended by MediaWiki; all "private" URL point there
 Disallow: /mediawiki
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Incorporated your fixes, including those on #nethackwiki. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I'm getting second thoughts about [[Special:AllPages]]. Google explicitly does not want to see results of internal searches, and this is not that different. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: I'd say it's more like a site map, which they presumably do want to see.  But it probably doesn't matter much either way, since it's mostly redundant to the XML sitemaps, and we don't link to it prominently.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Solved.  I'd simply left out the forward slash from the closing &amp;lt;/form&amp;gt; tag in the dialog, which FF apparently ignored but which caused IE to freak out.  Oops.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>b5eq38bq6gystg5z7zqpjoq6ftgwtdu</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>59935</id>
      <parentid>59932</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-25T21:02:13Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Source code syntax highlighting? */ don't see that.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="48442">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Please intastall [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:CorrectMainPageTitle|CorrectMainPageTitle]] --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
**Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:37, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
* Please let me specify how we are described on the Google search results page. [[MediaWiki:Description]] doesn't work anymore. One of [[mw:Extension:MetaDescriptionTag]], [[mw:Extension:Description2]], [[mw:Extension:ExplicitDescription]], [http://jimbojw.com/wiki/index.php?title=MetaKeywordsTag_Extension MetaKeywordsTag_Extension]  should solve the issue.
** Something like [[mw:Extension:OpenGraphMeta]] would help make it easy to link to us. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:20, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
***I've installed the ArticleMetaDescription extension from wikia, so [[MediaWiki:Description]] works now. All other pages get their description from the first paragraph in the article. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:22, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 ##paranoia: some other page might generate such links
 Disallow: /*?action=
 Disallow: /*?*&amp;action=
 ## Spiders need access to RecentChanges and Categories, else they get stuck or stale
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 ## Most of the pages in these namespaces and their talk are neither fresh, nor original content, nor on-topic.
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 ## The links to the forums need to be Google-valid, so special case it
 ## Fixme: patch MediaWiki to insert &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;link rel=”canonical” href=”http:.../&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; into rotating links to the forums
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 ## recommended by MediaWiki; all "private" URL point there
 Disallow: /mediawiki
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Incorporated your fixes, including those on #nethackwiki. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I'm getting second thoughts about [[Special:AllPages]]. Google explicitly does not want to see results of internal searches, and this is not that different. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: I'd say it's more like a site map, which they presumably do want to see.  But it probably doesn't matter much either way, since it's mostly redundant to the XML sitemaps, and we don't link to it prominently.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Solved.  I'd simply left out the forward slash from the closing &amp;lt;/form&amp;gt; tag in the dialog, which FF apparently ignored but which caused IE to freak out.  Oops.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>mvtnvxfbrskjzpobx4cyk3nrx5z0ihf</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>59950</id>
      <parentid>59935</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-26T04:02:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ion frigate</username>
        <id>375</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Source code syntax highlighting? */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="48536">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Please intastall [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:CorrectMainPageTitle|CorrectMainPageTitle]] --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
**Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:37, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
* Please let me specify how we are described on the Google search results page. [[MediaWiki:Description]] doesn't work anymore. One of [[mw:Extension:MetaDescriptionTag]], [[mw:Extension:Description2]], [[mw:Extension:ExplicitDescription]], [http://jimbojw.com/wiki/index.php?title=MetaKeywordsTag_Extension MetaKeywordsTag_Extension]  should solve the issue.
** Something like [[mw:Extension:OpenGraphMeta]] would help make it easy to link to us. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:20, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
***I've installed the ArticleMetaDescription extension from wikia, so [[MediaWiki:Description]] works now. All other pages get their description from the first paragraph in the article. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:22, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as Underscore.jpg

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 ##paranoia: some other page might generate such links
 Disallow: /*?action=
 Disallow: /*?*&amp;action=
 ## Spiders need access to RecentChanges and Categories, else they get stuck or stale
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 ## Most of the pages in these namespaces and their talk are neither fresh, nor original content, nor on-topic.
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 ## The links to the forums need to be Google-valid, so special case it
 ## Fixme: patch MediaWiki to insert &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;link rel=”canonical” href=”http:.../&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; into rotating links to the forums
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 ## recommended by MediaWiki; all "private" URL point there
 Disallow: /mediawiki
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Incorporated your fixes, including those on #nethackwiki. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I'm getting second thoughts about [[Special:AllPages]]. Google explicitly does not want to see results of internal searches, and this is not that different. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: I'd say it's more like a site map, which they presumably do want to see.  But it probably doesn't matter much either way, since it's mostly redundant to the XML sitemaps, and we don't link to it prominently.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Solved.  I'd simply left out the forward slash from the closing &amp;lt;/form&amp;gt; tag in the dialog, which FF apparently ignored but which caused IE to freak out.  Oops.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>s7dkzeiikysfpvvvwrxouk2jpg6prdk</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>59951</id>
      <parentid>59950</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-26T04:02:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ion frigate</username>
        <id>375</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Source code syntax highlighting? */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="48601">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Please intastall [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:CorrectMainPageTitle|CorrectMainPageTitle]] --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
**Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:37, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
* Please let me specify how we are described on the Google search results page. [[MediaWiki:Description]] doesn't work anymore. One of [[mw:Extension:MetaDescriptionTag]], [[mw:Extension:Description2]], [[mw:Extension:ExplicitDescription]], [http://jimbojw.com/wiki/index.php?title=MetaKeywordsTag_Extension MetaKeywordsTag_Extension]  should solve the issue.
** Something like [[mw:Extension:OpenGraphMeta]] would help make it easy to link to us. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:20, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
***I've installed the ArticleMetaDescription extension from wikia, so [[MediaWiki:Description]] works now. All other pages get their description from the first paragraph in the article. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:22, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as Underscore.jpg. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 ##paranoia: some other page might generate such links
 Disallow: /*?action=
 Disallow: /*?*&amp;action=
 ## Spiders need access to RecentChanges and Categories, else they get stuck or stale
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 ## Most of the pages in these namespaces and their talk are neither fresh, nor original content, nor on-topic.
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 ## The links to the forums need to be Google-valid, so special case it
 ## Fixme: patch MediaWiki to insert &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;link rel=”canonical” href=”http:.../&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; into rotating links to the forums
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 ## recommended by MediaWiki; all "private" URL point there
 Disallow: /mediawiki
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Incorporated your fixes, including those on #nethackwiki. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I'm getting second thoughts about [[Special:AllPages]]. Google explicitly does not want to see results of internal searches, and this is not that different. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: I'd say it's more like a site map, which they presumably do want to see.  But it probably doesn't matter much either way, since it's mostly redundant to the XML sitemaps, and we don't link to it prominently.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Solved.  I'd simply left out the forward slash from the closing &amp;lt;/form&amp;gt; tag in the dialog, which FF apparently ignored but which caused IE to freak out.  Oops.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>aipzn3eap1mn84cin5k8lhfgttapmm5</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>59952</id>
      <parentid>59951</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-26T07:11:14Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Source code syntax highlighting? */ Works For Me.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="48721">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Please intastall [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:CorrectMainPageTitle|CorrectMainPageTitle]] --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
**Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:37, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
* Please let me specify how we are described on the Google search results page. [[MediaWiki:Description]] doesn't work anymore. One of [[mw:Extension:MetaDescriptionTag]], [[mw:Extension:Description2]], [[mw:Extension:ExplicitDescription]], [http://jimbojw.com/wiki/index.php?title=MetaKeywordsTag_Extension MetaKeywordsTag_Extension]  should solve the issue.
** Something like [[mw:Extension:OpenGraphMeta]] would help make it easy to link to us. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:20, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
***I've installed the ArticleMetaDescription extension from wikia, so [[MediaWiki:Description]] works now. All other pages get their description from the first paragraph in the article. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:22, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 ##paranoia: some other page might generate such links
 Disallow: /*?action=
 Disallow: /*?*&amp;action=
 ## Spiders need access to RecentChanges and Categories, else they get stuck or stale
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 ## Most of the pages in these namespaces and their talk are neither fresh, nor original content, nor on-topic.
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 ## The links to the forums need to be Google-valid, so special case it
 ## Fixme: patch MediaWiki to insert &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;link rel=”canonical” href=”http:.../&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; into rotating links to the forums
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 ## recommended by MediaWiki; all "private" URL point there
 Disallow: /mediawiki
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Incorporated your fixes, including those on #nethackwiki. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I'm getting second thoughts about [[Special:AllPages]]. Google explicitly does not want to see results of internal searches, and this is not that different. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: I'd say it's more like a site map, which they presumably do want to see.  But it probably doesn't matter much either way, since it's mostly redundant to the XML sitemaps, and we don't link to it prominently.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Solved.  I'd simply left out the forward slash from the closing &amp;lt;/form&amp;gt; tag in the dialog, which FF apparently ignored but which caused IE to freak out.  Oops.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>4ozqdan048i0j2oft2q3y23yx8ay19v</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>59953</id>
      <parentid>59952</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-26T07:26:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Source code syntax highlighting? */ maybe it's not underscore?</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="48949">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Please intastall [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:CorrectMainPageTitle|CorrectMainPageTitle]] --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
**Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:37, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
* Please let me specify how we are described on the Google search results page. [[MediaWiki:Description]] doesn't work anymore. One of [[mw:Extension:MetaDescriptionTag]], [[mw:Extension:Description2]], [[mw:Extension:ExplicitDescription]], [http://jimbojw.com/wiki/index.php?title=MetaKeywordsTag_Extension MetaKeywordsTag_Extension]  should solve the issue.
** Something like [[mw:Extension:OpenGraphMeta]] would help make it easy to link to us. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:20, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
***I've installed the ArticleMetaDescription extension from wikia, so [[MediaWiki:Description]] works now. All other pages get their description from the first paragraph in the article. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:22, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 ##paranoia: some other page might generate such links
 Disallow: /*?action=
 Disallow: /*?*&amp;action=
 ## Spiders need access to RecentChanges and Categories, else they get stuck or stale
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 ## Most of the pages in these namespaces and their talk are neither fresh, nor original content, nor on-topic.
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 ## The links to the forums need to be Google-valid, so special case it
 ## Fixme: patch MediaWiki to insert &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;link rel=”canonical” href=”http:.../&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; into rotating links to the forums
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 ## recommended by MediaWiki; all "private" URL point there
 Disallow: /mediawiki
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Incorporated your fixes, including those on #nethackwiki. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I'm getting second thoughts about [[Special:AllPages]]. Google explicitly does not want to see results of internal searches, and this is not that different. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: I'd say it's more like a site map, which they presumably do want to see.  But it probably doesn't matter much either way, since it's mostly redundant to the XML sitemaps, and we don't link to it prominently.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Solved.  I'd simply left out the forward slash from the closing &amp;lt;/form&amp;gt; tag in the dialog, which FF apparently ignored but which caused IE to freak out.  Oops.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ctieqqwx08zpd2lnd9ehv3tyjuuk7qc</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>59954</id>
      <parentid>59953</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-26T07:27:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Source code syntax highlighting? */ clear the image</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="48960">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Please intastall [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:CorrectMainPageTitle|CorrectMainPageTitle]] --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
**Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:37, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
* Please let me specify how we are described on the Google search results page. [[MediaWiki:Description]] doesn't work anymore. One of [[mw:Extension:MetaDescriptionTag]], [[mw:Extension:Description2]], [[mw:Extension:ExplicitDescription]], [http://jimbojw.com/wiki/index.php?title=MetaKeywordsTag_Extension MetaKeywordsTag_Extension]  should solve the issue.
** Something like [[mw:Extension:OpenGraphMeta]] would help make it easy to link to us. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:20, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
***I've installed the ArticleMetaDescription extension from wikia, so [[MediaWiki:Description]] works now. All other pages get their description from the first paragraph in the article. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:22, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 ##paranoia: some other page might generate such links
 Disallow: /*?action=
 Disallow: /*?*&amp;action=
 ## Spiders need access to RecentChanges and Categories, else they get stuck or stale
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 ## Most of the pages in these namespaces and their talk are neither fresh, nor original content, nor on-topic.
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 ## The links to the forums need to be Google-valid, so special case it
 ## Fixme: patch MediaWiki to insert &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;link rel=”canonical” href=”http:.../&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; into rotating links to the forums
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 ## recommended by MediaWiki; all "private" URL point there
 Disallow: /mediawiki
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Incorporated your fixes, including those on #nethackwiki. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I'm getting second thoughts about [[Special:AllPages]]. Google explicitly does not want to see results of internal searches, and this is not that different. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: I'd say it's more like a site map, which they presumably do want to see.  But it probably doesn't matter much either way, since it's mostly redundant to the XML sitemaps, and we don't link to it prominently.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Solved.  I'd simply left out the forward slash from the closing &amp;lt;/form&amp;gt; tag in the dialog, which FF apparently ignored but which caused IE to freak out.  Oops.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>qdl33zemrqlfz41hu8igw11q1t8rck9</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>59956</id>
      <parentid>59954</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-26T09:55:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Source code syntax highlighting? */ it's a line height issue</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="49715">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Please intastall [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:CorrectMainPageTitle|CorrectMainPageTitle]] --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
**Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:37, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
* Please let me specify how we are described on the Google search results page. [[MediaWiki:Description]] doesn't work anymore. One of [[mw:Extension:MetaDescriptionTag]], [[mw:Extension:Description2]], [[mw:Extension:ExplicitDescription]], [http://jimbojw.com/wiki/index.php?title=MetaKeywordsTag_Extension MetaKeywordsTag_Extension]  should solve the issue.
** Something like [[mw:Extension:OpenGraphMeta]] would help make it easy to link to us. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:20, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
***I've installed the ArticleMetaDescription extension from wikia, so [[MediaWiki:Description]] works now. All other pages get their description from the first paragraph in the article. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:22, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 ##paranoia: some other page might generate such links
 Disallow: /*?action=
 Disallow: /*?*&amp;action=
 ## Spiders need access to RecentChanges and Categories, else they get stuck or stale
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 ## Most of the pages in these namespaces and their talk are neither fresh, nor original content, nor on-topic.
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 ## The links to the forums need to be Google-valid, so special case it
 ## Fixme: patch MediaWiki to insert &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;link rel=”canonical” href=”http:.../&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; into rotating links to the forums
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 ## recommended by MediaWiki; all "private" URL point there
 Disallow: /mediawiki
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Incorporated your fixes, including those on #nethackwiki. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I'm getting second thoughts about [[Special:AllPages]]. Google explicitly does not want to see results of internal searches, and this is not that different. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: I'd say it's more like a site map, which they presumably do want to see.  But it probably doesn't matter much either way, since it's mostly redundant to the XML sitemaps, and we don't link to it prominently.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Solved.  I'd simply left out the forward slash from the closing &amp;lt;/form&amp;gt; tag in the dialog, which FF apparently ignored but which caused IE to freak out.  Oops.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>7uamz6cley6kc864krchwfh8qyqd9sq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>59957</id>
      <parentid>59956</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-26T13:22:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Google and optimization */ on the first result page already :)</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="50098">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Please intastall [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:CorrectMainPageTitle|CorrectMainPageTitle]] --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
**Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:37, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
* Please let me specify how we are described on the Google search results page. [[MediaWiki:Description]] doesn't work anymore. One of [[mw:Extension:MetaDescriptionTag]], [[mw:Extension:Description2]], [[mw:Extension:ExplicitDescription]], [http://jimbojw.com/wiki/index.php?title=MetaKeywordsTag_Extension MetaKeywordsTag_Extension]  should solve the issue.
** Something like [[mw:Extension:OpenGraphMeta]] would help make it easy to link to us. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:20, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
***I've installed the ArticleMetaDescription extension from wikia, so [[MediaWiki:Description]] works now. All other pages get their description from the first paragraph in the article. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:22, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 ##paranoia: some other page might generate such links
 Disallow: /*?action=
 Disallow: /*?*&amp;action=
 ## Spiders need access to RecentChanges and Categories, else they get stuck or stale
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 ## Most of the pages in these namespaces and their talk are neither fresh, nor original content, nor on-topic.
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 ## The links to the forums need to be Google-valid, so special case it
 ## Fixme: patch MediaWiki to insert &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;link rel=”canonical” href=”http:.../&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; into rotating links to the forums
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 ## recommended by MediaWiki; all "private" URL point there
 Disallow: /mediawiki
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Incorporated your fixes, including those on #nethackwiki. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I'm getting second thoughts about [[Special:AllPages]]. Google explicitly does not want to see results of internal searches, and this is not that different. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: I'd say it's more like a site map, which they presumably do want to see.  But it probably doesn't matter much either way, since it's mostly redundant to the XML sitemaps, and we don't link to it prominently.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Solved.  I'd simply left out the forward slash from the closing &amp;lt;/form&amp;gt; tag in the dialog, which FF apparently ignored but which caused IE to freak out.  Oops.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>cbz5ferknqa5nd8ediynliq5ry5a3z5</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>60119</id>
      <parentid>59957</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-26T17:23:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>I hope the google ranking sticks</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="50325">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Please intastall [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:CorrectMainPageTitle|CorrectMainPageTitle]] --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
**Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:37, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
* Please let me specify how we are described on the Google search results page. [[MediaWiki:Description]] doesn't work anymore. One of [[mw:Extension:MetaDescriptionTag]], [[mw:Extension:Description2]], [[mw:Extension:ExplicitDescription]], [http://jimbojw.com/wiki/index.php?title=MetaKeywordsTag_Extension MetaKeywordsTag_Extension]  should solve the issue.
** Something like [[mw:Extension:OpenGraphMeta]] would help make it easy to link to us. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:20, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
***I've installed the ArticleMetaDescription extension from wikia, so [[MediaWiki:Description]] works now. All other pages get their description from the first paragraph in the article. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:22, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 ##paranoia: some other page might generate such links
 Disallow: /*?action=
 Disallow: /*?*&amp;action=
 ## Spiders need access to RecentChanges and Categories, else they get stuck or stale
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 ## Most of the pages in these namespaces and their talk are neither fresh, nor original content, nor on-topic.
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 ## The links to the forums need to be Google-valid, so special case it
 ## Fixme: patch MediaWiki to insert &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;link rel=”canonical” href=”http:.../&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; into rotating links to the forums
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 ## recommended by MediaWiki; all "private" URL point there
 Disallow: /mediawiki
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Incorporated your fixes, including those on #nethackwiki. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I'm getting second thoughts about [[Special:AllPages]]. Google explicitly does not want to see results of internal searches, and this is not that different. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: I'd say it's more like a site map, which they presumably do want to see.  But it probably doesn't matter much either way, since it's mostly redundant to the XML sitemaps, and we don't link to it prominently.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Solved.  I'd simply left out the forward slash from the closing &amp;lt;/form&amp;gt; tag in the dialog, which FF apparently ignored but which caused IE to freak out.  Oops.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ce1jkc9o9a4dyzh2bdkn8k9lt80ag0r</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>60151</id>
      <parentid>60119</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-27T04:25:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ion frigate</username>
        <id>375</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Source code syntax highlighting? */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="50524">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Please intastall [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:CorrectMainPageTitle|CorrectMainPageTitle]] --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
**Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:37, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
* Please let me specify how we are described on the Google search results page. [[MediaWiki:Description]] doesn't work anymore. One of [[mw:Extension:MetaDescriptionTag]], [[mw:Extension:Description2]], [[mw:Extension:ExplicitDescription]], [http://jimbojw.com/wiki/index.php?title=MetaKeywordsTag_Extension MetaKeywordsTag_Extension]  should solve the issue.
** Something like [[mw:Extension:OpenGraphMeta]] would help make it easy to link to us. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:20, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
***I've installed the ArticleMetaDescription extension from wikia, so [[MediaWiki:Description]] works now. All other pages get their description from the first paragraph in the article. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:22, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 ##paranoia: some other page might generate such links
 Disallow: /*?action=
 Disallow: /*?*&amp;action=
 ## Spiders need access to RecentChanges and Categories, else they get stuck or stale
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 ## Most of the pages in these namespaces and their talk are neither fresh, nor original content, nor on-topic.
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 ## The links to the forums need to be Google-valid, so special case it
 ## Fixme: patch MediaWiki to insert &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;link rel=”canonical” href=”http:.../&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; into rotating links to the forums
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 ## recommended by MediaWiki; all "private" URL point there
 Disallow: /mediawiki
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Incorporated your fixes, including those on #nethackwiki. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I'm getting second thoughts about [[Special:AllPages]]. Google explicitly does not want to see results of internal searches, and this is not that different. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: I'd say it's more like a site map, which they presumably do want to see.  But it probably doesn't matter much either way, since it's mostly redundant to the XML sitemaps, and we don't link to it prominently.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Solved.  I'd simply left out the forward slash from the closing &amp;lt;/form&amp;gt; tag in the dialog, which FF apparently ignored but which caused IE to freak out.  Oops.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>67ylefvxl9mb0vu0vkezkwih6bwmwsq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>60170</id>
      <parentid>60151</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-27T09:28:58Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Source code syntax highlighting? */ edit the skin-specific css file</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="50912">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Please intastall [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:CorrectMainPageTitle|CorrectMainPageTitle]] --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
**Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:37, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
* Please let me specify how we are described on the Google search results page. [[MediaWiki:Description]] doesn't work anymore. One of [[mw:Extension:MetaDescriptionTag]], [[mw:Extension:Description2]], [[mw:Extension:ExplicitDescription]], [http://jimbojw.com/wiki/index.php?title=MetaKeywordsTag_Extension MetaKeywordsTag_Extension]  should solve the issue.
** Something like [[mw:Extension:OpenGraphMeta]] would help make it easy to link to us. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:20, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
***I've installed the ArticleMetaDescription extension from wikia, so [[MediaWiki:Description]] works now. All other pages get their description from the first paragraph in the article. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:22, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 ##paranoia: some other page might generate such links
 Disallow: /*?action=
 Disallow: /*?*&amp;action=
 ## Spiders need access to RecentChanges and Categories, else they get stuck or stale
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 ## Most of the pages in these namespaces and their talk are neither fresh, nor original content, nor on-topic.
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 ## The links to the forums need to be Google-valid, so special case it
 ## Fixme: patch MediaWiki to insert &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;link rel=”canonical” href=”http:.../&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; into rotating links to the forums
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 ## recommended by MediaWiki; all "private" URL point there
 Disallow: /mediawiki
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Incorporated your fixes, including those on #nethackwiki. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I'm getting second thoughts about [[Special:AllPages]]. Google explicitly does not want to see results of internal searches, and this is not that different. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: I'd say it's more like a site map, which they presumably do want to see.  But it probably doesn't matter much either way, since it's mostly redundant to the XML sitemaps, and we don't link to it prominently.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Solved.  I'd simply left out the forward slash from the closing &amp;lt;/form&amp;gt; tag in the dialog, which FF apparently ignored but which caused IE to freak out.  Oops.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>6bh5myetam3p85vmbpf41qlr501s24h</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>60200</id>
      <parentid>60170</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-27T19:38:14Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ion frigate</username>
        <id>375</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Source code syntax highlighting? */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="51012">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Please intastall [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:CorrectMainPageTitle|CorrectMainPageTitle]] --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
**Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:37, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
* Please let me specify how we are described on the Google search results page. [[MediaWiki:Description]] doesn't work anymore. One of [[mw:Extension:MetaDescriptionTag]], [[mw:Extension:Description2]], [[mw:Extension:ExplicitDescription]], [http://jimbojw.com/wiki/index.php?title=MetaKeywordsTag_Extension MetaKeywordsTag_Extension]  should solve the issue.
** Something like [[mw:Extension:OpenGraphMeta]] would help make it easy to link to us. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:20, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
***I've installed the ArticleMetaDescription extension from wikia, so [[MediaWiki:Description]] works now. All other pages get their description from the first paragraph in the article. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:22, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 ##paranoia: some other page might generate such links
 Disallow: /*?action=
 Disallow: /*?*&amp;action=
 ## Spiders need access to RecentChanges and Categories, else they get stuck or stale
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 ## Most of the pages in these namespaces and their talk are neither fresh, nor original content, nor on-topic.
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 ## The links to the forums need to be Google-valid, so special case it
 ## Fixme: patch MediaWiki to insert &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;link rel=”canonical” href=”http:.../&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; into rotating links to the forums
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 ## recommended by MediaWiki; all "private" URL point there
 Disallow: /mediawiki
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Incorporated your fixes, including those on #nethackwiki. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I'm getting second thoughts about [[Special:AllPages]]. Google explicitly does not want to see results of internal searches, and this is not that different. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: I'd say it's more like a site map, which they presumably do want to see.  But it probably doesn't matter much either way, since it's mostly redundant to the XML sitemaps, and we don't link to it prominently.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Solved.  I'd simply left out the forward slash from the closing &amp;lt;/form&amp;gt; tag in the dialog, which FF apparently ignored but which caused IE to freak out.  Oops.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>izhyqw1vqamtjd5skichwjdddo6xj8k</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>60370</id>
      <parentid>60200</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-28T16:08:38Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>made instructions how to import watchlist link to Wikia</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="51014">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[w:c:gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Please intastall [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:CorrectMainPageTitle|CorrectMainPageTitle]] --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
**Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:37, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
* Please let me specify how we are described on the Google search results page. [[MediaWiki:Description]] doesn't work anymore. One of [[mw:Extension:MetaDescriptionTag]], [[mw:Extension:Description2]], [[mw:Extension:ExplicitDescription]], [http://jimbojw.com/wiki/index.php?title=MetaKeywordsTag_Extension MetaKeywordsTag_Extension]  should solve the issue.
** Something like [[mw:Extension:OpenGraphMeta]] would help make it easy to link to us. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:20, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
***I've installed the ArticleMetaDescription extension from wikia, so [[MediaWiki:Description]] works now. All other pages get their description from the first paragraph in the article. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:22, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 ##paranoia: some other page might generate such links
 Disallow: /*?action=
 Disallow: /*?*&amp;action=
 ## Spiders need access to RecentChanges and Categories, else they get stuck or stale
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 ## Most of the pages in these namespaces and their talk are neither fresh, nor original content, nor on-topic.
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 ## The links to the forums need to be Google-valid, so special case it
 ## Fixme: patch MediaWiki to insert &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;link rel=”canonical” href=”http:.../&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; into rotating links to the forums
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 ## recommended by MediaWiki; all "private" URL point there
 Disallow: /mediawiki
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Incorporated your fixes, including those on #nethackwiki. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I'm getting second thoughts about [[Special:AllPages]]. Google explicitly does not want to see results of internal searches, and this is not that different. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: I'd say it's more like a site map, which they presumably do want to see.  But it probably doesn't matter much either way, since it's mostly redundant to the XML sitemaps, and we don't link to it prominently.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Solved.  I'd simply left out the forward slash from the closing &amp;lt;/form&amp;gt; tag in the dialog, which FF apparently ignored but which caused IE to freak out.  Oops.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ttcdklnue91bhc5cdf0il6iaxjkzpv7</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>60373</id>
      <parentid>60370</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-28T16:59:18Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>s/[[w:c:gta:/[[gta:/</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="51010">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Please intastall [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:CorrectMainPageTitle|CorrectMainPageTitle]] --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
**Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:37, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
* Please let me specify how we are described on the Google search results page. [[MediaWiki:Description]] doesn't work anymore. One of [[mw:Extension:MetaDescriptionTag]], [[mw:Extension:Description2]], [[mw:Extension:ExplicitDescription]], [http://jimbojw.com/wiki/index.php?title=MetaKeywordsTag_Extension MetaKeywordsTag_Extension]  should solve the issue.
** Something like [[mw:Extension:OpenGraphMeta]] would help make it easy to link to us. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:20, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
***I've installed the ArticleMetaDescription extension from wikia, so [[MediaWiki:Description]] works now. All other pages get their description from the first paragraph in the article. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:22, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 ##paranoia: some other page might generate such links
 Disallow: /*?action=
 Disallow: /*?*&amp;action=
 ## Spiders need access to RecentChanges and Categories, else they get stuck or stale
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 ## Most of the pages in these namespaces and their talk are neither fresh, nor original content, nor on-topic.
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 ## The links to the forums need to be Google-valid, so special case it
 ## Fixme: patch MediaWiki to insert &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;link rel=”canonical” href=”http:.../&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; into rotating links to the forums
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 ## recommended by MediaWiki; all "private" URL point there
 Disallow: /mediawiki
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Incorporated your fixes, including those on #nethackwiki. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I'm getting second thoughts about [[Special:AllPages]]. Google explicitly does not want to see results of internal searches, and this is not that different. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: I'd say it's more like a site map, which they presumably do want to see.  But it probably doesn't matter much either way, since it's mostly redundant to the XML sitemaps, and we don't link to it prominently.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Solved.  I'd simply left out the forward slash from the closing &amp;lt;/form&amp;gt; tag in the dialog, which FF apparently ignored but which caused IE to freak out.  Oops.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>sefjk88xanukxqkv6hgva5vd7m3wuuf</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>60401</id>
      <parentid>60373</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-28T23:43:53Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Source code syntax highlighting? */ Geishi 404 list</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="51166">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Please intastall [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:CorrectMainPageTitle|CorrectMainPageTitle]] --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
**Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:37, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
* Please let me specify how we are described on the Google search results page. [[MediaWiki:Description]] doesn't work anymore. One of [[mw:Extension:MetaDescriptionTag]], [[mw:Extension:Description2]], [[mw:Extension:ExplicitDescription]], [http://jimbojw.com/wiki/index.php?title=MetaKeywordsTag_Extension MetaKeywordsTag_Extension]  should solve the issue.
** Something like [[mw:Extension:OpenGraphMeta]] would help make it easy to link to us. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:20, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
***I've installed the ArticleMetaDescription extension from wikia, so [[MediaWiki:Description]] works now. All other pages get their description from the first paragraph in the article. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:22, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 ##paranoia: some other page might generate such links
 Disallow: /*?action=
 Disallow: /*?*&amp;action=
 ## Spiders need access to RecentChanges and Categories, else they get stuck or stale
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 ## Most of the pages in these namespaces and their talk are neither fresh, nor original content, nor on-topic.
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 ## The links to the forums need to be Google-valid, so special case it
 ## Fixme: patch MediaWiki to insert &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;link rel=”canonical” href=”http:.../&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; into rotating links to the forums
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 ## recommended by MediaWiki; all "private" URL point there
 Disallow: /mediawiki
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Incorporated your fixes, including those on #nethackwiki. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I'm getting second thoughts about [[Special:AllPages]]. Google explicitly does not want to see results of internal searches, and this is not that different. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: I'd say it's more like a site map, which they presumably do want to see.  But it probably doesn't matter much either way, since it's mostly redundant to the XML sitemaps, and we don't link to it prominently.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Solved.  I'd simply left out the forward slash from the closing &amp;lt;/form&amp;gt; tag in the dialog, which FF apparently ignored but which caused IE to freak out.  Oops.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>7ganasd539foy5u68880lsy7b3lbu72</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>60417</id>
      <parentid>60401</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-29T00:50:23Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Let's audit advice */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="51644">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Please intastall [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:CorrectMainPageTitle|CorrectMainPageTitle]] --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
**Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:37, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
* Please let me specify how we are described on the Google search results page. [[MediaWiki:Description]] doesn't work anymore. One of [[mw:Extension:MetaDescriptionTag]], [[mw:Extension:Description2]], [[mw:Extension:ExplicitDescription]], [http://jimbojw.com/wiki/index.php?title=MetaKeywordsTag_Extension MetaKeywordsTag_Extension]  should solve the issue.
** Something like [[mw:Extension:OpenGraphMeta]] would help make it easy to link to us. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:20, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
***I've installed the ArticleMetaDescription extension from wikia, so [[MediaWiki:Description]] works now. All other pages get their description from the first paragraph in the article. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:22, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 ##paranoia: some other page might generate such links
 Disallow: /*?action=
 Disallow: /*?*&amp;action=
 ## Spiders need access to RecentChanges and Categories, else they get stuck or stale
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 ## Most of the pages in these namespaces and their talk are neither fresh, nor original content, nor on-topic.
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 ## The links to the forums need to be Google-valid, so special case it
 ## Fixme: patch MediaWiki to insert &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;link rel=”canonical” href=”http:.../&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; into rotating links to the forums
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 ## recommended by MediaWiki; all "private" URL point there
 Disallow: /mediawiki
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Incorporated your fixes, including those on #nethackwiki. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I'm getting second thoughts about [[Special:AllPages]]. Google explicitly does not want to see results of internal searches, and this is not that different. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: I'd say it's more like a site map, which they presumably do want to see.  But it probably doesn't matter much either way, since it's mostly redundant to the XML sitemaps, and we don't link to it prominently.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Solved.  I'd simply left out the forward slash from the closing &amp;lt;/form&amp;gt; tag in the dialog, which FF apparently ignored but which caused IE to freak out.  Oops.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>kqlonxjafn4e4ikvz0j1c78muatcjfz</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>60419</id>
      <parentid>60417</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-29T01:06:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Let's audit advice */ why not a template?</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="51831">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Please intastall [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:CorrectMainPageTitle|CorrectMainPageTitle]] --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
**Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:37, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
* Please let me specify how we are described on the Google search results page. [[MediaWiki:Description]] doesn't work anymore. One of [[mw:Extension:MetaDescriptionTag]], [[mw:Extension:Description2]], [[mw:Extension:ExplicitDescription]], [http://jimbojw.com/wiki/index.php?title=MetaKeywordsTag_Extension MetaKeywordsTag_Extension]  should solve the issue.
** Something like [[mw:Extension:OpenGraphMeta]] would help make it easy to link to us. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:20, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
***I've installed the ArticleMetaDescription extension from wikia, so [[MediaWiki:Description]] works now. All other pages get their description from the first paragraph in the article. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:22, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 ##paranoia: some other page might generate such links
 Disallow: /*?action=
 Disallow: /*?*&amp;action=
 ## Spiders need access to RecentChanges and Categories, else they get stuck or stale
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 ## Most of the pages in these namespaces and their talk are neither fresh, nor original content, nor on-topic.
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 ## The links to the forums need to be Google-valid, so special case it
 ## Fixme: patch MediaWiki to insert &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;link rel=”canonical” href=”http:.../&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; into rotating links to the forums
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 ## recommended by MediaWiki; all "private" URL point there
 Disallow: /mediawiki
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Incorporated your fixes, including those on #nethackwiki. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I'm getting second thoughts about [[Special:AllPages]]. Google explicitly does not want to see results of internal searches, and this is not that different. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: I'd say it's more like a site map, which they presumably do want to see.  But it probably doesn't matter much either way, since it's mostly redundant to the XML sitemaps, and we don't link to it prominently.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Solved.  I'd simply left out the forward slash from the closing &amp;lt;/form&amp;gt; tag in the dialog, which FF apparently ignored but which caused IE to freak out.  Oops.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>cu9d470i9pj5kodu243ptg55rdi5789</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>60421</id>
      <parentid>60419</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-29T01:10:58Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>good point. How to find the complement of a category?</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="52060">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Please intastall [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:CorrectMainPageTitle|CorrectMainPageTitle]] --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
**Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:37, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
* Please let me specify how we are described on the Google search results page. [[MediaWiki:Description]] doesn't work anymore. One of [[mw:Extension:MetaDescriptionTag]], [[mw:Extension:Description2]], [[mw:Extension:ExplicitDescription]], [http://jimbojw.com/wiki/index.php?title=MetaKeywordsTag_Extension MetaKeywordsTag_Extension]  should solve the issue.
** Something like [[mw:Extension:OpenGraphMeta]] would help make it easy to link to us. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:20, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
***I've installed the ArticleMetaDescription extension from wikia, so [[MediaWiki:Description]] works now. All other pages get their description from the first paragraph in the article. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:22, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 ##paranoia: some other page might generate such links
 Disallow: /*?action=
 Disallow: /*?*&amp;action=
 ## Spiders need access to RecentChanges and Categories, else they get stuck or stale
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 ## Most of the pages in these namespaces and their talk are neither fresh, nor original content, nor on-topic.
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 ## The links to the forums need to be Google-valid, so special case it
 ## Fixme: patch MediaWiki to insert &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;link rel=”canonical” href=”http:.../&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; into rotating links to the forums
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 ## recommended by MediaWiki; all "private" URL point there
 Disallow: /mediawiki
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Incorporated your fixes, including those on #nethackwiki. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I'm getting second thoughts about [[Special:AllPages]]. Google explicitly does not want to see results of internal searches, and this is not that different. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: I'd say it's more like a site map, which they presumably do want to see.  But it probably doesn't matter much either way, since it's mostly redundant to the XML sitemaps, and we don't link to it prominently.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Solved.  I'd simply left out the forward slash from the closing &amp;lt;/form&amp;gt; tag in the dialog, which FF apparently ignored but which caused IE to freak out.  Oops.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>j8xd4tzr4yab491e6shlwtd1h2tshq7</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>60433</id>
      <parentid>60421</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-11-29T05:33:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ please install &lt;nowiki&gt;[[special:nuke]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="52266">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

There are still some problems that I need to fix:

&lt;s&gt;
*SVG renderer (See eg. [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg Nethackwiki-logo.svg]). I know nothing about this, so need to take a look how to fix it.
**See [[mw:Manual:Image Administration#SVG]].  Basically you need to pick a renderer, install it and set $wgSVGConverter.  As for the renderers, rsvg is fast but not very good, though still ''much'' better than ImageMagick.  It's what Wikipedia uses.  Inkscape is better, but note the home directory issue.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's now rsvg. Still looking pretty fugly... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Forums (eg. [[Forum:Watercooler]]) require an extension or two. I'll install the extension(s) later today.
**CreateBox-extension installed, and it seems to work. DPLforum-extension doesn't work? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*User watchlists, emails, etc. settings are not imported from Wikia. This is hard, so not worth the effort, most likely.
**See partial workaround above.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
*Non-image files did not get moved from Wikia. Need to reupload.
**Let me know if you need help with this, I should be able to kluge together some scripts to do it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***There aren't that many of those files, so possible to do it by hand. OTOH, if you have the time to help, I wouldn't say no; this is My First MW Installation, after all... Talk to me on IRC, freenode, channel #nethackwiki --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:58, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
****I just checked, and it seems we had a [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.odt total] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.odt five] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NethackArmor.pdf of] [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:Favicon.ico these], of which the [[:File:Favicon.ico|last one]] has already been fixed.  The others can't be uploaded until their extensions have been added to [[mw:Manual:$wgFileExtensions|$wgFileExtensions]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*****[[:File:ScrollsAmulets.odt|They're]] [[:File:ScrollsAmulets.pdf|all]] [[:File:NethackArmor.odt|fixed]] [[:File:NethackArmor.pdf|now]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
******Might want to install [[mw:Extension:PdfHandler]] so those PDF files can be thumbnailed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*[[Template:Nethack-343]] and others (eg. in [[NetHackWiki:Next_version]]) need to be checked, they were designed for the wikia monaco(?) skin. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**The styles for such templates should really be put in [[MediaWiki:Vector.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. so they can be tailored to each skin.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***Should be working now ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|browser cache purging]] may be required).  I also put the templates in [[:Category:Top icon templates]] for later maintenance.  Let me know if I missed any.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Edit the sidebar, should have links to the wiki forums.
*Javascript [[Source:Do_wear.c#line122|source code hilight doesn't work]]
*Editing: Cannot move the javascript color glyph insert box.
*Show/hide javascript doesn't work: &lt;tt&gt;importScriptPage('ShowHide/code.js', 'dev');&lt;/tt&gt; in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
**Should work now, except we're not using it anywhere? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:49, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;


Please add any problems you notice to here. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

&lt;s&gt;
*The [[Special:EmailUser|e-mail this user]] feature is not enabled, and neither is e-mail notification on talk page changes.  I'd suggest setting both [[mw:Manual:$wgEnableUserEmail|$wgEnableUserEmail]] and [[mw:Manual:$wgEnotifUserTalk|$wgEnotifUserTalk]] true.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**Actually, e-mail notification does seem to be enabled.  Not sure why I thought it wasn't.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:14, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*We've got a bunch of [[Special:WantedTemplates|missing templates]] that should be imported.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*The license selector on [[Special:Upload]] (which comes from [[MediaWiki:Licenses]] IIRC) is empty.  Should put some actual licensing options there.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
**I added some, based on MediaWiki and Wikia ones. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*Which reminds me, [[NetHackWiki:Copyrights]] is outdated.  I assume we got relicensed to CC-BY-SA-3.0 along with the rest of Wikia, but the page still says we're GFDL.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:55, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
*&lt;s&gt;There's a minor annoyance at [[Special:Preferences]]: you are listed as belonging to a group called "wikian". That's clearly not appropriate as we are not in Wikia anymore. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:00, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;If it tracks users with pre-move accounts, how about calling it "converted wikians"?&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;Good idea.  That's how it's shown now.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* I'm not seeing the [[MediaWiki:Edittools|Edit Tools]] show up under the edit window; is that my settings, or site-configuration setting? --[[User:MidnightLightning|MidnightLightning]] 19:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
** It should show up now, needed to do ?action=purge on it. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:57, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

I'll add my scoop of todos:
* examine all outgoing &lt;nowiki&gt;[url ]&lt;/nowiki&gt;-style links
** &lt;s&gt;change &lt;nowiki&gt;[http://nethackwiki/wiki/&lt;/nowiki&gt; to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;Fix all occurences of wikihack etc, including in the interface text&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;The edit tools still show Wikihack-specific templates, Color symbols etc.
*** That the "Color symbols" functions happen to be named with "WikiHack" prefix does not matter functionally at all. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** wikia needs to be audited for, e.g. with [[Special:ReplaceText]].
***Need to check &lt;tt&gt;'''[[w:'''&lt;/tt&gt; -links; those will be expanded to wikia. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Capitalization: Net'''H'''ackWiki
** MediaWiki has a &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; keyword that automatically expands to the official wiki name (currently {{SITENAME}}).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***I overwrote a lot of interface text still on the old wiki because only staff could set SITENAME.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* http://domain/title should redirect to http://domain/wiki/title
** This is actually problematic, and not suggested, see http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
***It's bad to create such a structure, but even worse to turn it off. Wikia had this enabled. Besides, it's a convenience when typing in URLs.
***We also broke lots of URLs existing out there. E.g. from my talk page: [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User%3ADemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;diff=52696&amp;oldid=52607 offending edits], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;curid=14805&amp;action=history page history], [http://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=User:DemonSlayerThe3rd&amp;action=edit&amp;undoafter=52607&amp;undo=53468 revert it all],
****Those urls will now work (index.php will redirect to correct place, keeping the params instact), but I've got no luck getting '''nethackwiki.com/PageNameFoo''' to work. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
**Short urls work now, hopefully nothing broke. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
* collapse multiple edits to the same page on RecentChanges
** This is a personal, not a wiki-wide setting. Go to [[Special:Preferences]] -&gt; Recent Changes -&gt; check "Use enhanced recent changes (requires JavaScript)". &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;missing edit button, eg http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Deletereason-dropdown&amp;action=edit
** I can't reproduce this, or I don't get what you mean. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:32, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Now it's there. Strange.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:11, 13 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
&lt;s&gt;
* autocompletion popup when typing [[ ]]
**Installed [[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:QuickLink]], but it might need some tweaking... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* make font larger
* very long backlog of editing work
* create good content for other wikis that links to Nethack. (But I already annoyed the D&amp;D people.)
:: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/NetHack, http://elona.wikia.com/wiki/index.php?search=nethack&amp;fulltext=0, http://archive.gamespy.com/legacy/halloffame/nethack_a.shtm, http://adom.wikia.com/wiki/Links
*&lt;s&gt; Wikipedia should link to us, including all languages, all cite notes unrelated pages etc.&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;Only Russian Wikipedia still needs to be updated.&lt;/s&gt;
** We could even ask to be added to the Wikimedia [[wikipedia:meta:interwiki map|interwiki map]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 11:46, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
***That's crucial for our Google ranking. Which prefix do you [[metawikimedia:Talk:Interwiki_map#Proposed_additions|propose]], to standardize things when asking other gaming wikis?
****I decided on &lt;nowiki&gt;[[nethack:pagetitle]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Link_Database#Quick_creation_of_interwiki_map see here].
* traffic monitoring here
* Where should my list of (corrected) incoming links go? Perferrably on the wiki, out of sight of Wikia.
** Sounds like a contradiction in terms; kind of hard to keep anything hidden on a public wiki.  (I suppose you could install one of the extensions that try to implement read restrictions, or maybe put the list on a page and delete it.  But both are pretty klugey solutions.)  Are you worried they'd try to revert you?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Yes. A page only admins can see would be perfect.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Not related to the move AFAIK, but it seems the dat/*.des files are missing from the Source: namespace.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** ...aaand fixed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Makedefs and the unix/, windowport subdirs are also missing. Users will not be able to find main().[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* [[Welcome]] bot
**This is a Wikia-specific extension, and there's no such thing for generic MediaWiki, AFAIK. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
**[http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:NewUserMessage] should work
***Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
* &lt;s&gt;import wikimedia help, or interwiki-source wholesale
** I tried adding help as an interwiki prefix, but that didn't work.
*** That's because it's one of the standard local namespaces.  Anyway, see [[mw:Project:PD help/Copying]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:34, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** import images referenced in help.
* &lt;s&gt;http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Autoconfirmed We have semi-protected pages which can be edited only by autoconfirmed users.
** You don't need that extension to autoconfirm users, it's a core MediaWiki feature; see [[mw:Manual:User rights#List of Groups]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
* Interwiki links to other wikia wikis look broken, but actually do work. Example: [[gta:Special:RecentChanges]].
** That looks like a normal interwiki link to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
* All external links are currently rel="nofollow", we should switch that off. (At wikia, it worked fine with "real" links.)
*&lt;s&gt;Could we please have http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RandomInclude ? I'd like to add random, unobtrusive links to other wikis leaving Wikia. [http://awa.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Forum:Anti-Wikia_Alliance/linkdatabase#Linking_support ].
**You could already kluge up something like that with [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions|ParserFunctions]], e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:{{#time:U}} mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:36, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
***Then Googlebot would see links to the one same wiki all over the place because it requests pages in short sequence. That defeats the purpose of randomization: I don't want to worry about rotating and spreading the links evenly over all the wikis I want to help.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
****I'm pretty sure Googlebot doesn't hit a single site ''that'' fast (rather, they crawl many sites in parallel), but in any case, &lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; = {{#switch:{{#expr:({{#time:U}}+{{REVISIONID}}) mod 3}}|0=foo|1=bar|2=baz}} should fix that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
**"&lt;nowiki&gt;{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;" = "{{Template:AWA_Promotion}}" codes that. But: 1) it needs to be put somewhere active, (sidebar didn't work) 2) rel="nofollow" needs to be turned off, 3) how much does it affect load times? 4) Do we want to support other movers? (I say yes.) 5) If no-display is bad, make it say "visit a random wiki". [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:05, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**We now have "ad" links on the bottom of the page. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
*** It turns out [http://www.site-reference.com/articles/Website-Development/Top-Dirty-Linking-Tricks.html rotating links aren't so good]. Let's make it depend on REVISIONID only, and let's gradually replace the "ads" with sites that are related to NetHack and actually link back. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
* &lt;s&gt;If you edit an article as an anon and click login instead of going through the captcha, your edit will be discarded.
** It should be still there if you use the back button, but I agree that this isn't very intuitive.  It's standard MediaWiki behavior, though.  I believe Wikia has an AJAX-based login form that solves this issue, we should see if there's an existing extension to do the same.  (Actually, it should even be possible to do this via [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], no extension needed.  But installing an existing piece of code should still be easier than writing it from scratch.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:53, 14 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
*** I wrote [[MediaWiki:AJAXLogin.js|a little script]] to do it.  Let me know if you find any bugs.  ([[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|Cache purging]] may be required as usual.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:09, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Firefox cannot auto-fill the password at that form. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:48, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;s&gt;
* Please intastall [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:CorrectMainPageTitle|CorrectMainPageTitle]] --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
**Installed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:37, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
* Please let me specify how we are described on the Google search results page. [[MediaWiki:Description]] doesn't work anymore. One of [[mw:Extension:MetaDescriptionTag]], [[mw:Extension:Description2]], [[mw:Extension:ExplicitDescription]], [http://jimbojw.com/wiki/index.php?title=MetaKeywordsTag_Extension MetaKeywordsTag_Extension]  should solve the issue.
** Something like [[mw:Extension:OpenGraphMeta]] would help make it easy to link to us. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:20, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
***I've installed the ArticleMetaDescription extension from wikia, so [[MediaWiki:Description]] works now. All other pages get their description from the first paragraph in the article. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:22, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;
*Please install [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Nuke]] and similar tools. We don't have spam problems, but it's good to have the tools ready in case a flood hits. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 05:33, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
{{clear}}
&lt;s&gt;
On the old wiki:
* poll on the old wiki: why aren't you at the new site?
* traffic monitoring on the old site: people how do come, from where and why?
**No, let's not touch the old wiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:26, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
&lt;/s&gt;

===Move announcements at various places===
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 ##paranoia: some other page might generate such links
 Disallow: /*?action=
 Disallow: /*?*&amp;action=
 ## Spiders need access to RecentChanges and Categories, else they get stuck or stale
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 ## Most of the pages in these namespaces and their talk are neither fresh, nor original content, nor on-topic.
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 ## The links to the forums need to be Google-valid, so special case it
 ## Fixme: patch MediaWiki to insert &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;link rel=”canonical” href=”http:.../&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; into rotating links to the forums
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 ## recommended by MediaWiki; all "private" URL point there
 Disallow: /mediawiki
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Incorporated your fixes, including those on #nethackwiki. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I'm getting second thoughts about [[Special:AllPages]]. Google explicitly does not want to see results of internal searches, and this is not that different. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: I'd say it's more like a site map, which they presumably do want to see.  But it probably doesn't matter much either way, since it's mostly redundant to the XML sitemaps, and we don't link to it prominently.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Solved.  I'd simply left out the forward slash from the closing &amp;lt;/form&amp;gt; tag in the dialog, which FF apparently ignored but which caused IE to freak out.  Oops.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>dk4dcyrkoppii53mciw004q28c3wh81</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>60559</id>
      <parentid>60433</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-01T16:57:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Problems on this Wiki */ moved to [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Bugs and feature requests]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="35239">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Bugs and feature requests]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== robots.txt and forums ==

Mediawiki recommends disallowing the /mediawiki/ directory in robots.txt. However, the DPLforums extension wants to create links into that directory. Possible courses of actions:
* ''Disallow /mediawiki'' --&gt; Bad because forums won't get pagerank.
* ''Allow everything'' --&gt; Bad because duplicate and irrelevant content dilutes our search relevance.
* ''Disallow /mediawiki, specify timestamp=no'' in the &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;forum&gt;...&lt;/nowiki&gt; code. --&gt; Browsers color the forums as visited despite new forum posts.
* ''Fine-tune robots.txt'' --&gt; more maintainance work.

===Proposed robots.txt===
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 Allow: Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 Allow: /wiki/Special:UserLogin
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:CategoryTree
 Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Disallow: Special:
 #Disallow: Special:Search
 #Disallow: Special:Random
 Disallow: ?action=
 Disallow: &amp;action=
 Disallow: ?printable=
 Disallow: &amp;printable=
 Disallow: ?oldid=
 Disallow: &amp;oldid=
 Disallow: ?redirect=
 Disallow: api.php?
 Disallow: &amp;redirect=
 Disallow: namespace=
 Disallow: Help:
 Disallow: Help_Talk:
 Disallow: Template:
 Disallow: Template_Talk:
 Disallow: MediaWiki:
 Disallow: MediaWiki_Talk:
 Disallow: /images/archive/
 Disallow: /skins/
 Disallow: /mediawiki-

This rule set should block all relevant URLs previously blocked, except that Images would be indexed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Fixed blank line, added api.php and various talk. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: Most of those lines are still broken without wildcards.  But I think your second proposal below is better anyway.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:There are some other URLs you really should block, such as anything beginning with "/mediawiki/api.php".  And I think most of those lines would need * wildcards (which not all search bots support).  Oh, and blank lines are section separators in robots.txt.

:I think a simpler solution would be something like this:

 User-agent: *
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /*?*action=  # just in case
 Disallow: /*?*oldid=   # just in case
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 Disallow: /mediawiki
 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml

:But really, I don't think even that Allow: line there is really necessary: the forums still link to the corresponding category (e.g. [[:Category:Watercooler]]), which links to all the forum discussions using normal non-timestamped wikilinks.  So Google should find and index the discussions just fine in any case.  Besides, they show up in the sitemap too.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: The point is bestowing page rank onto and from the Forums. That's why the internal links need to work. Especially from the Main Page.
::: OK, maybe I'm not understanding something here.  How does a link from [[Forum:Watercooler]] bestow more page rank than a link from [[:Category:Watercooler]] (which is linked from [[Forum:Watercooler]])? --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:: 1) Google honors the Allow: / Disallow: with the longest pattern, so the doulbe exceptions won't work. 2) The entries already are full substring searches. Also, the * won't work for many search engines. 3) At least RecentChanges and Categories need to be allowed, else the bot won't get around or find freshness.

:: How about this:

 Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap/sitemap-index-wikihackdb.xml
 
 User-agent: *
 ##paranoia: some other page might generate such links
 Disallow: /*?action=
 Disallow: /*?*&amp;action=
 ## Spiders need access to RecentChanges and Categories, else they get stuck or stale
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:Contributions
 # Allow: /wiki/Special:ActiveUsers
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:AllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special%3AAllPages
 #Allow: /wiki/Special:AllPages
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ARecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special:RecentChanges
 Allow: /wiki/Special%3ACategories
 Allow: /wiki/Special:Categories
 Disallow: /wiki/Special%3A
 Disallow: /wiki/Special:
 ## Most of the pages in these namespaces and their talk are neither fresh, nor original content, nor on-topic.
 Disallow: /wiki/Help
 Disallow: /wiki/Template
 Disallow: /wiki/MediaWiki
 # Disallow: /mediawiki/images/archive
 # Allow: /mediawiki/images/
 ## The links to the forums need to be Google-valid, so special case it
 ## Fixme: patch MediaWiki to insert &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;link rel=”canonical” href=”http:.../&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; into rotating links to the forums
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;redirect=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;oldid=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;printable=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;action=
 Disallow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;action=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum%3A*&amp;t=
 Allow: /mediawiki/index.php?title=Forum:*&amp;t=
 ## recommended by MediaWiki; all "private" URL point there
 Disallow: /mediawiki
--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:That should work, I think.  We might want to allow [[Special:AllPages]] too, and perhaps disallow "/*?action=" and "/*?*&amp;action=" anyway for the sake of paranoia (MediaWiki won't generate links like {{fullurl:Project:Sandbox}}?action=delete by itself, but someone might).  Also, I'm pretty sure that "Allow: /" is a no-op.  But those are all minor issues, basically that looks OK to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 14:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:: Incorporated your fixes, including those on #nethackwiki. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:10, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::: I'm getting second thoughts about [[Special:AllPages]]. Google explicitly does not want to see results of internal searches, and this is not that different. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: I'd say it's more like a site map, which they presumably do want to see.  But it probably doesn't matter much either way, since it's mostly redundant to the XML sitemaps, and we don't link to it prominently.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Login form bug ==
Clicking log in on Avant Browser for XPSP3 (at work) produced 4 dialog boxes, only one of which was the actual Login in menu.--[[User:PeterGFin|PeterGFin]] 08:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

:OK, that's definitely a bug.  Unfortunately I don't have access to either Avant or XP right now, but I'll try and see if I can replicate that later today.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:08, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
::Solved.  I'd simply left out the forward slash from the closing &amp;lt;/form&amp;gt; tag in the dialog, which FF apparently ignored but which caused IE to freak out.  Oops.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:46, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>gv833okldq1kco57n1mtwk49edl05ph</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>60589</id>
      <parentid>60559</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-01T18:17:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>move some technical discussions to [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Bugs and feature requests]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="27947">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Bugs and feature requests]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>5i63b57h8baxc3f08c94hsxz0swe4xz</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>60605</id>
      <parentid>60589</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-01T18:41:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Source code syntax highlighting? */ now in [[MediaWiki:Commons.css]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="28159">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Bugs and feature requests]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Commons.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>gdrbzuz9hmlafuscvd59ilmk3efjj17</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>60606</id>
      <parentid>60605</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-01T18:41:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Source code syntax highlighting? */ learn to spell :(</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="28158">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Bugs and feature requests]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>1y16vpplhxpgx5pyoq3s30cv2j4lyfh</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>60682</id>
      <parentid>60606</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-02T13:11:59Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Privacy policy */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="28536">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Bugs and feature requests]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>aw0wwafze7kng2tevbb0mekt85bau0s</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>60685</id>
      <parentid>60682</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-02T13:16:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Let's audit advice */ [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should do it</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="28746">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Bugs and feature requests]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>17fjtfembziwgikz2cg16q9dk05oawc</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>60687</id>
      <parentid>60685</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-02T13:21:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="28861">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Bugs and feature requests]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>4b3bgwiw9nzj2euvd4x7svep3dt4it2</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>60688</id>
      <parentid>60687</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-02T13:22:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Privacy policy */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="29045">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]]. 

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Bugs and feature requests]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>a84q9x2ffl6r4hxhrhl8r047znql0s9</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>60692</id>
      <parentid>60688</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-02T13:38:44Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>[[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Bugs and feature requests]] moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="29144">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ox9auaou98ivw6h6pqnbuncikrdiwmv</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>60791</id>
      <parentid>60692</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-02T19:15:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>99.241.123.250</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Printed Nethack Guidebook */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="29384">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.</text>
      <sha1>caoto19xugt44cp6plq88bw45ionkvp</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>60792</id>
      <parentid>60791</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-02T19:16:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>99.241.123.250</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Printed Nethack Guidebook */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="29471">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>bh7peeui2rc9w4z0b3t6dkwlnyqy24h</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>60932</id>
      <parentid>60792</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-04T18:14:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Geishi 404 have been fixed.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="29582">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>4tiajg5j56qwv057nld3qddynl33tek</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>60956</id>
      <parentid>60932</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-04T21:50:12Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Printed Nethack Guidebook */ please help update links</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="31567">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[m:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --~~

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]</text>
      <sha1>c4q0to7ck4iazf6vvna0cud6o6zdcsc</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>60958</id>
      <parentid>60956</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-04T21:53:01Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Printed Nethack Guidebook */ fix sig</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="31610">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[m:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]</text>
      <sha1>m3h7onnd9nhipvh1xuh33s48ia4y30t</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>60959</id>
      <parentid>60958</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-04T21:53:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Help update incoming links */ fix sig</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="31639">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[m:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>stkyj54ymvrzzhpemgu7tqnlccbqv2c</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61068</id>
      <parentid>60959</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-05T23:03:53Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>88.72.50.178</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Printed Nethack Guidebook */ fix mediawiki link</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="31651">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>baa3c2o95u51e3gmhqgldhcajefvrw7</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61096</id>
      <parentid>61068</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-06T21:23:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Too many forums? */ I'm merging the forums</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="31874">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>nz28bqunaczfij93risk3c7las3vx15</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61098</id>
      <parentid>61096</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-06T21:32:54Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Too many forums? */ done, but the commands don't seem to execute</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="32055">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>bdgfap1crr14m8pqd6ochc651zun913</sha1>
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      <id>61099</id>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
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      <minor/>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="32149">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>geodfm4y6h9ehhw4njpk8whf3fbnivw</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61155</id>
      <parentid>61099</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-07T15:35:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Too many forums? */ every 3 hours is quite long</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="32466">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>hve4q9isqyh3joi2sysd6ll213arswr</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61156</id>
      <parentid>61155</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-07T16:02:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Too many forums? */ runs every 6 minutes now.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="32596">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
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Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>j7r3l5udtnoyds16vhn3kl2qid7etu7</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61185</id>
      <parentid>61184</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-07T22:03:59Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Talk page signature checker */ cache bypass may be required</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="33609">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>p4b0so4qy9dv02siwskzadpxxypem4u</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61189</id>
      <parentid>61185</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-08T00:15:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Talk page signature checker */ I think I've made it work right on project pages too</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="33888">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>dehliksea14ev2c2q42hnt27myvh9lx</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61251</id>
      <parentid>61189</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-10T03:28:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Renaming the old site back to Wikihack */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="34536">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>f99z0vvcdrkmbbowqdhvyloqo806p7p</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61255</id>
      <parentid>61251</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-10T04:19:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Renaming the old site back to Wikihack */ suggest it on the Community Portal there</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="34732">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>t77z5oo6rby7pnuwdp93v1i01otmv67</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61256</id>
      <parentid>61255</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-10T13:53:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Bhaak</username>
        <id>91</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Renaming the old site back to Wikihack */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="34965">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>rjul6bhy4mxgdvq8vkbg2qdr4hxae2b</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61291</id>
      <parentid>61256</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-12T19:57:13Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>IngerAlHaosului</username>
        <id>369</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Google and optimization */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="35240">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ldu6pft77jgfje1h8c7r7w3sihyknp1</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61293</id>
      <parentid>61291</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-12T20:48:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>I'd love to remove the old wiki, but I can't.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="35315">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>8pqopu2vvd8zrlfdn8os5v1aombv6v3</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61307</id>
      <parentid>61293</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-13T16:28:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Better "Welcome" logo? */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="35570">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}</text>
      <sha1>nolzrfw0q3qz8dwzjf8ewt8w31ac390</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61323</id>
      <parentid>61307</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-13T23:53:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Better "Welcome" logo? */ how about this?</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="35909">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>r964dmuzbjskvxvfyfzt02l43u8d69v</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61344</id>
      <parentid>61323</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-14T09:33:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Bhaak</username>
        <id>91</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Better "Welcome" logo? */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="36118">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>mk52oxzui3o8587mhuf88s0c2vzo8ge</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61362</id>
      <parentid>61344</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-14T19:48:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Better "Welcome" logo? */ pro: easier to read; todo: keep it short</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="36360">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>gdc4qkazwhgaerk93i6oe455857yh4k</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61371</id>
      <parentid>61362</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-14T20:22:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ZeroOne</username>
        <id>924</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Better "Welcome" logo? */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="36922">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>756b8n6surcbfdz0zogow1ysiq4kp30</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61373</id>
      <parentid>61371</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-14T22:03:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Better "Welcome" logo? */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="37044">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>00xyh5o2ztuwagbg0orikdxtedfm3s7</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61386</id>
      <parentid>61373</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-15T13:24:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Better "Welcome" logo? */ see [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="38068">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>nw4hitt0ih2v0tugr7eemfz73flsfxo</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61718</id>
      <parentid>61386</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-21T04:04:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* People have trouble with our captchas */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="38423">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>gx6iyyeqpi407bree1w91sef49ryig2</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61719</id>
      <parentid>61718</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-21T04:53:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Andrew</username>
        <id>4000051</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* People have trouble with our captchas */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="38586">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>r2ny1m77xjg1eunjeizi1q79dq4g2xz</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61721</id>
      <parentid>61719</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-21T06:40:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* People have trouble with our captchas */ "Which symbol represents a wand in NetHack?"</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="38728">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>osqcfbvtr1fsd8178ba9zje45s5w6zi</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61722</id>
      <parentid>61721</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-21T06:55:48Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* People have trouble with our captchas */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="38952">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>q5ilogsxl0llif7wy35dyf1ufwsexzz</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61724</id>
      <parentid>61722</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-21T07:01:24Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* People have trouble with our captchas */ heck, they're right in the middle of the main page</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="39250">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>kaxevry4nbr40sb5nshn3lrz4k91hge</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61725</id>
      <parentid>61724</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-21T08:10:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* People have trouble with our captchas */ added "in NetHack"</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="39325">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>cjn9kv6ehyfjxohts9zwdy1f6mz6706</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61727</id>
      <parentid>61725</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-21T14:46:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* People have trouble with our captchas */ suggest "bad behavior" again.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="39549">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>o1wk6plmjkbf1yt8wjy1m2kirwtvmt1</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61728</id>
      <parentid>61727</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-21T15:05:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* People have trouble with our captchas */ now i'm bitchin'</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="40150">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>chx2pljgirb5vo59vzrxy8kvrwy1k93</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61729</id>
      <parentid>61728</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-21T15:16:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Sorry. additional line of defence.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="40357">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>gbyzxnk6tmgdv2q1w2si62c99bkr9k1</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61730</id>
      <parentid>61729</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-21T15:18:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* People have trouble with our captchas */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="40363">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>1rl44erjlghodqitx841abtbay05jhc</sha1>
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    <revision>
      <id>61813</id>
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      <comment>/* Standard format for the "Messages" section. */ new section</comment>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="41590">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>69kjnpb1cigzzwao8gwdleyl5s4c7gx</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61814</id>
      <parentid>61813</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-24T21:07:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Dptr1988</username>
        <id>214</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Let's audit advice */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="42720">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>06rf7cnxpdvogqyme3xmlrfgqepd7a9</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61827</id>
      <parentid>61814</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-25T08:36:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>99.239.146.253</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Wikia Links */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="43030">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>62nog6y2f1snggaoi6e0n959lg24kur</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61828</id>
      <parentid>61827</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-25T08:52:24Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Wikia Links */ need to be fixed</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="43238">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>qj6r74izh4doqk6b0nugf0jkblzdsm0</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61829</id>
      <parentid>61828</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-25T08:53:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Wikia Links */ +in</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="43241">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>5zezg7m41z2t3g1il26ic18z16gyt6x</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61833</id>
      <parentid>61829</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-25T09:39:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Wikia Links */ edited the pages</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="43547">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>9gzm1st9p13qrsrr46moc0bqid13k3k</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61834</id>
      <parentid>61833</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-25T09:51:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Standard format for the "Messages" section. */ a standard format for messages would be nice</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="44065">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>3kwykt8bmh0nzgmoeszuhpyd5il2cm6</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61847</id>
      <parentid>61834</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-25T22:41:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* "Did you know" section */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="44248">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]</text>
      <sha1>5mzyp9w2gg12ksi60cj2ok74lt4a2ru</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61949</id>
      <parentid>61847</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-27T20:39:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>99.239.146.253</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Incorrect title on left menu */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="44584">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>syj6o4tbdns8aa0qven7vautwue2jhj</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>61950</id>
      <parentid>61949</parentid>
      <timestamp>2010-12-27T20:57:04Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>99.239.146.253</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* "Did you know" section */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="44806">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>mrc8mfszv40fq26qv8u8u4251vco4iy</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>62149</id>
      <parentid>61950</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-01-01T18:53:12Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* "Did you know" section */ choice and phrasing of facts can make a difference</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="45286">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>oxkeppfmh6n5f0eyoiuq0abzck9nu6q</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>62258</id>
      <parentid>62149</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-01-02T02:27:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>99.239.146.253</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Incorrect title on left menu */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="45444">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>jxke7a9r30aeoz0h180ybaoiyid2ws4</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>62273</id>
      <parentid>62258</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-01-02T02:45:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>incorrect title -- SEO attempt for key keyword phrase nethack+wiki</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="45754">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]</text>
      <sha1>15gvk4yzzoq4pzxnz9g7pg0moqwf7bb</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>62331</id>
      <parentid>62273</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-01-02T09:11:14Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="45999">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>8op1njljbv9w61pgb640kw0g7njep9y</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>62333</id>
      <parentid>62331</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-01-02T11:37:28Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>vote: should merge; don't see how</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="46210">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)</text>
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Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>alxke0elkee5bpx0z2u9itvapdeqm5k</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>62369</id>
      <parentid>62338</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-01-02T20:40:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* "Did you know" section */ [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="46608">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>bekqmwdy615xc3gm4jn5dad4ym5hak1</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>62437</id>
      <parentid>62369</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-01-03T16:07:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? */ done</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="46663">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[NetHackWiki:Ask an expert|Ask an expert]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>cdxhyv2qfelxq0o72ah0dl1xhwf1jj5</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>62440</id>
      <parentid>62437</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-01-03T16:11:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>point people to the forum instead of ask an expert</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="46651">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>d0eg9wj9k9hikrqmgpvgyqjpl4y4hnu</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>62586</id>
      <parentid>62440</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-01-05T20:46:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>move the blue "Community" box from main page to here.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="46995">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 

&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>bdgfpddvh30xz3hiis9izp5yuvn73zh</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>62795</id>
      <parentid>62586</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-01-08T13:07:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Encyclopedia entries */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="47418">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 

&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>la0atfu9flyp2d9ekhgp0joltegtvzc</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>62809</id>
      <parentid>62795</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-01-08T16:21:37Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Dptr1988</username>
        <id>214</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Encyclopedia entries */ Agree</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="47770">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 

&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>h8qur9k4yfvb3ud0wkgfeetrh5tb6fk</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>62810</id>
      <parentid>62809</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-01-08T16:32:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>mark resolved issues</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="47844">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 

&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>3b2pigulpyaw1rotsnzmhksum8vahj0</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>62893</id>
      <parentid>62810</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-01-08T21:14:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Improving the special level maps */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="48190">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 

&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>g6w5mjcgi81ocbqgllfxu5r67cf5dnr</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>63129</id>
      <parentid>62893</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-01-12T13:07:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>2x agreed</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="48398">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 

&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>lajkegm451ntce7uhegshjduorpb3kz</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>63237</id>
      <parentid>63129</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-01-13T00:18:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Improving our click-through rate */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="49063">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 

&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>rpxt8w10svj1sohh4beobclna6orkjb</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>63239</id>
      <parentid>63237</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-01-13T00:50:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ilmari Karonen</username>
        <id>366</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Improving our click-through rate */ my vague impression</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="49466">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 

&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ghp3kekqabtzypvmahtuqbwylo55he7</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>63319</id>
      <parentid>63239</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-01-14T01:28:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>done</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="49551">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 

&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>dsqojqc4gatcassihe3jvxsfv92gp4u</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>63564</id>
      <parentid>63319</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-01-16T15:05:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Improving the special level maps */ one problem.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="49817">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 

&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>fou95xrbovqlq2q25jbsuo0ft4ia2kk</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>63982</id>
      <parentid>63564</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-01-26T12:34:26Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Improving our click-through rate */ The simple title made things worse, any better suggestions?</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="49940">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 

&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>bs3ww9chbapcwkj8sfcmz62by5rslcx</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>64018</id>
      <parentid>63982</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-01-26T18:38:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Neat ideas to copy */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="51112">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 

&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* [http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com A clustermap of visitors] to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>sld00oveyz4a7qwhhzcjrv2zbp2b5c3</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>64019</id>
      <parentid>64018</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-01-26T18:39:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
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      <minor/>
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      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="51126">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 

&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>swkiuxmav3ahpr7dsxkx0ljv64ntm2g</sha1>
    </revision>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="51856">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 

&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>7bub9zdr5z8f07rj142d0fhbh990npk</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>64075</id>
      <parentid>64058</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-01-27T19:33:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Wikia Links */ list of pages with wikia links</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="52498">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 

&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>opqsv1g6zlwvc9lkw7dxnyacmpvud0q</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>64077</id>
      <parentid>64075</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-01-27T20:39:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Wikia Links */ pages with strink "ikia.com"</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="53292">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 

&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>oznl9kvtkf19nlkxsy5bcpb3ihxfp1h</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>64089</id>
      <parentid>64077</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-01-27T22:21:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Wikia Links */ mostly done; unsure about the forums</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="53542">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 

&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ba2xt7c60iurxttravelg7vf7z2in8k</sha1>
    </revision>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="53695">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 

&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)</text>
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    </revision>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="53769">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 

&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>85gavf2quynbdtku21ni33hktiio66f</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>68442</id>
      <parentid>68426</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-02-05T15:15:14Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* People have trouble with our captchas */ resolved</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="53806">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 

&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>dplj94wrnimmvxm75k1iajrw5l6iw8b</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>70181</id>
      <parentid>68442</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-05-02T06:00:14Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kynde</username>
        <id>485</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* kidding */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="53893">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 

&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ke255ljgjcmb8gzgq0xwy3ocmuspp16</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>70475</id>
      <parentid>70181</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-05-18T13:29:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Collapsable sidebar? */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="54441">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 

&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]]. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>j5pzm8k996t9vbvs0zgct68b09hufvi</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>70476</id>
      <parentid>70475</parentid>
      <timestamp>2011-05-18T13:31:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Collapsable sidebar? */ polyforms with carrying capacity</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="54498">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 

&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;

*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;

* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.
*** It should match link anchor texts, though... 
**** Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
******I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>saquyj10bsg5akxeeusneh3oqfnungp</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>76456</id>
      <parentid>70476</parentid>
      <timestamp>2012-02-22T14:50:18Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ais523</username>
        <id>27</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Google and optimization */ fix markup that was somehow escaping the section (and the preview!) and covering the entire page</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="54528">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}} 

&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;

Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>8jwzddmwq5e1l6airc8jzjkjpur3yny</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>77129</id>
      <parentid>76456</parentid>
      <timestamp>2012-04-08T16:26:18Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>99.239.147.0</ip>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="54550">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]</text>
      <sha1>m6l3qvcsb7aiuiuwae34imvhg7ajnkl</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>77137</id>
      <parentid>77129</parentid>
      <timestamp>2012-04-09T00:35:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Matt493</username>
        <id>4000252</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Default font used in nethack? */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="54781">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==

All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font?</text>
      <sha1>c7vv1q9fwq1qw8hbnf76sdef3ubg9nl</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>77139</id>
      <parentid>77137</parentid>
      <timestamp>2012-04-09T02:47:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>99.239.147.0</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Default font used in nethack? */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="55111">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>4cc3s455azywe8osaw792carzowydox</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>77143</id>
      <parentid>77139</parentid>
      <timestamp>2012-04-09T11:28:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ais523</username>
        <id>27</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Default font used in nethack? */ elaborate</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="55422">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>stzg16ygbex8g7pwai0d1eivzprtye3</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>77185</id>
      <parentid>77143</parentid>
      <timestamp>2012-04-10T22:54:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Matt493</username>
        <id>4000252</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Nethack welcome box: */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="56121">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>hrefr8lwuwnxm670xxovsuvh419i1d0</sha1>
    </revision>
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      <id>77186</id>
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      <model>wikitext</model>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="56436">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>nc9dy4snd2wlytrw7wv8d94myf9lw1g</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>81326</id>
      <parentid>77186</parentid>
      <timestamp>2012-11-01T01:23:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Scorchgeek</username>
        <id>723</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Role articles */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="57191">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>oj92r0uxoe5ac9yr590dwwpo6wvisom</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>81454</id>
      <parentid>81326</parentid>
      <timestamp>2012-11-10T11:24:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Bcode</username>
        <id>4000180</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Role articles */ good ideas, here are some more (hopefully they're also good)</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="58983">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>mwxy7yydxotsmp66hk645xq8m3qx13o</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>81832</id>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="59111">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>95fz8wfniwjdpbkwslxzo72dxqg1ct8</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>82079</id>
      <parentid>81832</parentid>
      <timestamp>2012-12-29T05:35:37Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>24.61.180.68</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Password issues */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="59407">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>fzarmrgrz0lgi4iyq8yi6c5omajdqhp</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>82080</id>
      <parentid>82079</parentid>
      <timestamp>2012-12-29T05:35:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>24.61.180.68</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Password issues */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="59703">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>5yqu55jpeok0s71inwsf276cn9rrf52</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>82081</id>
      <parentid>82080</parentid>
      <timestamp>2012-12-29T05:36:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>24.61.180.68</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Password issues */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="59407">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>fzarmrgrz0lgi4iyq8yi6c5omajdqhp</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>82086</id>
      <parentid>82081</parentid>
      <timestamp>2012-12-29T16:30:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Scorchgeek</username>
        <id>723</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Password issues */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="59545">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>kfv93vlwctw260yo931r7t1jxu6ivsq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>82092</id>
      <parentid>82086</parentid>
      <timestamp>2012-12-30T01:27:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>24.61.180.68</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Password issues */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="59697">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>as489st820yyrmtvjo94c90ast59gye</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>82093</id>
      <parentid>82092</parentid>
      <timestamp>2012-12-30T01:35:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Scorchgeek</username>
        <id>723</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Password issues */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="59860">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>euj9hlas07jzka3ux3kh4q9ow8bxxvh</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>82127</id>
      <parentid>82093</parentid>
      <timestamp>2012-12-31T07:30:53Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kahran042 R</username>
        <id>4000346</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Password issues */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="60056">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>5wzqd71yd6y5wagie3mx085oxuy4s84</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>82128</id>
      <parentid>82127</parentid>
      <timestamp>2012-12-31T08:05:39Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Bcode</username>
        <id>4000180</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Password issues */ Moving the page would be fine, though there's also a relevant item in [[Template:News]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="60758">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>sefajkb73zum5egk3mztci6dz6mx2mc</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>83642</id>
      <parentid>82128</parentid>
      <timestamp>2013-03-28T23:19:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Prometheus77</username>
        <id>4000292</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Putting alternate tilesets in articles */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="61959">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

I am one of a growing number of NetHack players using smartphones and tablets to play the game. Most of us use one of various graphical tilesets because they are more friendly to the new media (I prefer the Abigaba/Chozo tileset myself). As such, I've long wanted to add alternate tiles to articles on monsters/items/etc. to make NetHackWiki more usable to people like me. I create the [[Template:Alternate_tilesets]] for this purpose, which produces a result like so:
{{Alternate tilesets|name=giant ant}}

I'd like some help to get this ready for production:
#Does anyone have a way of systematically cutting up large tileset files into numbered subfiles that can be renamed and uploaded to the wiki?
#Can someone please fix the template to float *below* the monster, weapon, etc. template rather than next to it?
#Can someone please fix the template to be expandable (e.g. "more" button) rather than always appearing, as it's quite large and could be distracting to many non-smartphone/tablet players

Any other improvement suggestions welcome. Thanks!
--[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 23:19, 28 March 2013 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>0sif22jx85oilrzzcj6nc20mc7an36b</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>83649</id>
      <parentid>83642</parentid>
      <timestamp>2013-03-29T09:03:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>alt tilesets: good idea</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="62062">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

I am one of a growing number of NetHack players using smartphones and tablets to play the game. Most of us use one of various graphical tilesets because they are more friendly to the new media (I prefer the Abigaba/Chozo tileset myself). As such, I've long wanted to add alternate tiles to articles on monsters/items/etc. to make NetHackWiki more usable to people like me. I create the [[Template:Alternate_tilesets]] for this purpose, which produces a result like so:
{{Alternate tilesets|name=giant ant}}

I'd like some help to get this ready for production:
#Does anyone have a way of systematically cutting up large tileset files into numbered subfiles that can be renamed and uploaded to the wiki?
#Can someone please fix the template to float *below* the monster, weapon, etc. template rather than next to it?
#Can someone please fix the template to be expandable (e.g. "more" button) rather than always appearing, as it's quite large and could be distracting to many non-smartphone/tablet players

Any other improvement suggestions welcome. Thanks!
--[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 23:19, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

: I agree this is a good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 09:03, 29 March 2013 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>hfrnw8cgpqg3cr2e8t3lcb93hx7qee2</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>83659</id>
      <parentid>83649</parentid>
      <timestamp>2013-03-29T12:28:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Bcode</username>
        <id>4000180</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Putting alternate tilesets in articles */ did #3; doubt I can do #2 myself; #1 would be easy to do</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="62808">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

I am one of a growing number of NetHack players using smartphones and tablets to play the game. Most of us use one of various graphical tilesets because they are more friendly to the new media (I prefer the Abigaba/Chozo tileset myself). As such, I've long wanted to add alternate tiles to articles on monsters/items/etc. to make NetHackWiki more usable to people like me. I create the [[Template:Alternate_tilesets]] for this purpose, which produces a result like so:
{{Alternate tilesets|name=giant ant}}

I'd like some help to get this ready for production:
#Does anyone have a way of systematically cutting up large tileset files into numbered subfiles that can be renamed and uploaded to the wiki?
#Can someone please fix the template to float *below* the monster, weapon, etc. template rather than next to it?
#Can someone please fix the template to be expandable (e.g. "more" button) rather than always appearing, as it's quite large and could be distracting to many non-smartphone/tablet players

Any other improvement suggestions welcome. Thanks!
--[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 23:19, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

: I agree this is a good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 09:03, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

:#This should be easy to automate, yes. I don't have an account with the bot flag set, though, and I certainly don't want to flood [[Special:RecentChanges]] with automated uploads (and it'd be good form to ask first, anyway).
:#Someone with a better knowledge of CSS might want to look at that.
:#[{{canonicalurl:Template:Alternate tilesets|diff=83658&amp;oldid=83648}} Done].
:Would there be a problem with renaming the &lt;tt&gt;name&lt;/tt&gt; parameter/converting it into a numbered parameter? It seems it'd be the "main" parameter, anyway, so &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{alternate tilesets|giant ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; might be better. —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 12:28, 29 March 2013 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>1wovu3wrks856qzflcl8a1o18ioqxf8</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>83661</id>
      <parentid>83659</parentid>
      <timestamp>2013-03-29T13:42:59Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Prometheus77</username>
        <id>4000292</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Putting alternate tilesets in articles */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="63498">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

I am one of a growing number of NetHack players using smartphones and tablets to play the game. Most of us use one of various graphical tilesets because they are more friendly to the new media (I prefer the Abigaba/Chozo tileset myself). As such, I've long wanted to add alternate tiles to articles on monsters/items/etc. to make NetHackWiki more usable to people like me. I create the [[Template:Alternate_tilesets]] for this purpose, which produces a result like so:
{{Alternate tilesets|name=giant ant}}

I'd like some help to get this ready for production:
#Does anyone have a way of systematically cutting up large tileset files into numbered subfiles that can be renamed and uploaded to the wiki?
#Can someone please fix the template to float *below* the monster, weapon, etc. template rather than next to it?
#Can someone please fix the template to be expandable (e.g. "more" button) rather than always appearing, as it's quite large and could be distracting to many non-smartphone/tablet players

Any other improvement suggestions welcome. Thanks!
--[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 23:19, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

: I agree this is a good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 09:03, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

:#This should be easy to automate, yes. I don't have an account with the bot flag set, though, and I certainly don't want to flood [[Special:RecentChanges]] with automated uploads (and it'd be good form to ask first, anyway).
:#Someone with a better knowledge of CSS might want to look at that.
:#[{{canonicalurl:Template:Alternate tilesets|diff=83658&amp;oldid=83648}} Done].
:Would there be a problem with renaming the &lt;tt&gt;name&lt;/tt&gt; parameter/converting it into a numbered parameter? It seems it'd be the "main" parameter, anyway, so &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{alternate tilesets|giant ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; might be better. —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 12:28, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

::Thanks, that's a significant improvement. Poking around on bilious.alt.org last night I found a page that does what we're looking for, but it seems to do it by loading the entire tileset file and cropping.
::http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/tilecmp.php
::I'm not a skilled enough html programmer to try to implement something like this in the template, but it seems like it may be a better solution. It would be ideal if there was a way to have the template lookup xy coordinates for each tile, but I don't know if it's possible to put lookup functionality into a template.
::--[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 13:42, 29 March 2013 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>5y3u01q75vuzh1lqcnjie5gtibwxec9</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>83665</id>
      <parentid>83661</parentid>
      <timestamp>2013-03-29T14:57:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Bcode</username>
        <id>4000180</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Putting alternate tilesets in articles */ well, it probably *could* be done that way, but is it a good idea?</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="63955">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

I am one of a growing number of NetHack players using smartphones and tablets to play the game. Most of us use one of various graphical tilesets because they are more friendly to the new media (I prefer the Abigaba/Chozo tileset myself). As such, I've long wanted to add alternate tiles to articles on monsters/items/etc. to make NetHackWiki more usable to people like me. I create the [[Template:Alternate_tilesets]] for this purpose, which produces a result like so:
{{Alternate tilesets|name=giant ant}}

I'd like some help to get this ready for production:
#Does anyone have a way of systematically cutting up large tileset files into numbered subfiles that can be renamed and uploaded to the wiki?
#Can someone please fix the template to float *below* the monster, weapon, etc. template rather than next to it?
#Can someone please fix the template to be expandable (e.g. "more" button) rather than always appearing, as it's quite large and could be distracting to many non-smartphone/tablet players

Any other improvement suggestions welcome. Thanks!
--[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 23:19, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

: I agree this is a good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 09:03, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

:#This should be easy to automate, yes. I don't have an account with the bot flag set, though, and I certainly don't want to flood [[Special:RecentChanges]] with automated uploads (and it'd be good form to ask first, anyway).
:#Someone with a better knowledge of CSS might want to look at that.
:#[{{canonicalurl:Template:Alternate tilesets|diff=83658&amp;oldid=83648}} Done].
:Would there be a problem with renaming the &lt;tt&gt;name&lt;/tt&gt; parameter/converting it into a numbered parameter? It seems it'd be the "main" parameter, anyway, so &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{alternate tilesets|giant ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; might be better. —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 12:28, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

::Thanks, that's a significant improvement. Poking around on bilious.alt.org last night I found a page that does what we're looking for, but it seems to do it by loading the entire tileset file and cropping.
::http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/tilecmp.php
::I'm not a skilled enough html programmer to try to implement something like this in the template, but it seems like it may be a better solution. It would be ideal if there was a way to have the template lookup xy coordinates for each tile, but I don't know if it's possible to put lookup functionality into a template.
::--[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 13:42, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

:::I'm not sure there's a good MediaWiki solution for this. The lookup thing could be done in a &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:…}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt;, though I'm not sure it's worth it. That HTML/CSS-based cropping seems quite hackish to me. (Also, it doesn't allow us to link to a single tile, [[:File:Giant ant.png|like this]].) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 14:57, 29 March 2013 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>p3n4wv5xnj6cxqvf7qiqgd8nzzc81q5</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>83666</id>
      <parentid>83665</parentid>
      <timestamp>2013-03-29T16:12:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Putting alternate tilesets in articles */ MW extension could do that</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="64181">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

I am one of a growing number of NetHack players using smartphones and tablets to play the game. Most of us use one of various graphical tilesets because they are more friendly to the new media (I prefer the Abigaba/Chozo tileset myself). As such, I've long wanted to add alternate tiles to articles on monsters/items/etc. to make NetHackWiki more usable to people like me. I create the [[Template:Alternate_tilesets]] for this purpose, which produces a result like so:
{{Alternate tilesets|name=giant ant}}

I'd like some help to get this ready for production:
#Does anyone have a way of systematically cutting up large tileset files into numbered subfiles that can be renamed and uploaded to the wiki?
#Can someone please fix the template to float *below* the monster, weapon, etc. template rather than next to it?
#Can someone please fix the template to be expandable (e.g. "more" button) rather than always appearing, as it's quite large and could be distracting to many non-smartphone/tablet players

Any other improvement suggestions welcome. Thanks!
--[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 23:19, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

: I agree this is a good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 09:03, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

:#This should be easy to automate, yes. I don't have an account with the bot flag set, though, and I certainly don't want to flood [[Special:RecentChanges]] with automated uploads (and it'd be good form to ask first, anyway).
:#Someone with a better knowledge of CSS might want to look at that.
:#[{{canonicalurl:Template:Alternate tilesets|diff=83658&amp;oldid=83648}} Done].
:Would there be a problem with renaming the &lt;tt&gt;name&lt;/tt&gt; parameter/converting it into a numbered parameter? It seems it'd be the "main" parameter, anyway, so &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{alternate tilesets|giant ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; might be better. —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 12:28, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

::Thanks, that's a significant improvement. Poking around on bilious.alt.org last night I found a page that does what we're looking for, but it seems to do it by loading the entire tileset file and cropping.
::http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/tilecmp.php
::I'm not a skilled enough html programmer to try to implement something like this in the template, but it seems like it may be a better solution. It would be ideal if there was a way to have the template lookup xy coordinates for each tile, but I don't know if it's possible to put lookup functionality into a template.
::--[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 13:42, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

:::I'm not sure there's a good MediaWiki solution for this. The lookup thing could be done in a &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:…}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt;, though I'm not sure it's worth it. That HTML/CSS-based cropping seems quite hackish to me. (Also, it doesn't allow us to link to a single tile, [[:File:Giant ant.png|like this]].) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 14:57, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

::::It wouldn't be too hard to code a MW extension that does lookups like converting a monster name into tile position within the large tile image. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] ([[User talk:Paxed|talk]]) 16:12, 29 March 2013 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>doftaoye6cvmgw725gbnp7dy9jat3uy</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>83668</id>
      <parentid>83666</parentid>
      <timestamp>2013-03-29T20:37:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Prometheus77</username>
        <id>4000292</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Putting alternate tilesets in articles */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="64880">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

I am one of a growing number of NetHack players using smartphones and tablets to play the game. Most of us use one of various graphical tilesets because they are more friendly to the new media (I prefer the Abigaba/Chozo tileset myself). As such, I've long wanted to add alternate tiles to articles on monsters/items/etc. to make NetHackWiki more usable to people like me. I create the [[Template:Alternate_tilesets]] for this purpose, which produces a result like so:
{{Alternate tilesets|name=giant ant}}

I'd like some help to get this ready for production:
#Does anyone have a way of systematically cutting up large tileset files into numbered subfiles that can be renamed and uploaded to the wiki?
#Can someone please fix the template to float *below* the monster, weapon, etc. template rather than next to it?
#Can someone please fix the template to be expandable (e.g. "more" button) rather than always appearing, as it's quite large and could be distracting to many non-smartphone/tablet players

Any other improvement suggestions welcome. Thanks!
--[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 23:19, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

: I agree this is a good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 09:03, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

:#This should be easy to automate, yes. I don't have an account with the bot flag set, though, and I certainly don't want to flood [[Special:RecentChanges]] with automated uploads (and it'd be good form to ask first, anyway).
:#Someone with a better knowledge of CSS might want to look at that.
:#[{{canonicalurl:Template:Alternate tilesets|diff=83658&amp;oldid=83648}} Done].
:Would there be a problem with renaming the &lt;tt&gt;name&lt;/tt&gt; parameter/converting it into a numbered parameter? It seems it'd be the "main" parameter, anyway, so &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{alternate tilesets|giant ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; might be better. —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 12:28, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

::Thanks, that's a significant improvement. Poking around on bilious.alt.org last night I found a page that does what we're looking for, but it seems to do it by loading the entire tileset file and cropping.
::http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/tilecmp.php
::I'm not a skilled enough html programmer to try to implement something like this in the template, but it seems like it may be a better solution. It would be ideal if there was a way to have the template lookup xy coordinates for each tile, but I don't know if it's possible to put lookup functionality into a template.
::--[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 13:42, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

:::I'm not sure there's a good MediaWiki solution for this. The lookup thing could be done in a &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:…}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt;, though I'm not sure it's worth it. That HTML/CSS-based cropping seems quite hackish to me. (Also, it doesn't allow us to link to a single tile, [[:File:Giant ant.png|like this]].) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 14:57, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

::::It wouldn't be too hard to code a MW extension that does lookups like converting a monster name into tile position within the large tile image. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] ([[User talk:Paxed|talk]]) 16:12, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

:::::The more I think about it, the less enthused I am with that solution. For one thing, it sounds difficult to implement. For another, it would entail loading several full tilesets for each page rather than just the tiles in question, which could bog down load times. I guess we're probably better off going the mass upload route.
:::::On that note, if anyone has a solution that would allow them to cut up the files, I'm happy to take on doing the renaming by hand. We'll also need a way to do a mass upload to the server, since I'm not of a mind to upload several thousand individual files.
:::::--[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 20:37, 29 March 2013 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>608g3a9atdaqoezzqiiodkipz92k7z5</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>83669</id>
      <parentid>83668</parentid>
      <timestamp>2013-03-29T20:48:49Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Bcode</username>
        <id>4000180</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Putting alternate tilesets in articles */ in any case, the cutting part is done, but I'm not going to do anything with the files before consensus is reached.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="65404">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

I am one of a growing number of NetHack players using smartphones and tablets to play the game. Most of us use one of various graphical tilesets because they are more friendly to the new media (I prefer the Abigaba/Chozo tileset myself). As such, I've long wanted to add alternate tiles to articles on monsters/items/etc. to make NetHackWiki more usable to people like me. I create the [[Template:Alternate_tilesets]] for this purpose, which produces a result like so:
{{Alternate tilesets|name=giant ant}}

I'd like some help to get this ready for production:
#Does anyone have a way of systematically cutting up large tileset files into numbered subfiles that can be renamed and uploaded to the wiki?
#Can someone please fix the template to float *below* the monster, weapon, etc. template rather than next to it?
#Can someone please fix the template to be expandable (e.g. "more" button) rather than always appearing, as it's quite large and could be distracting to many non-smartphone/tablet players

Any other improvement suggestions welcome. Thanks!
--[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 23:19, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

: I agree this is a good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 09:03, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

:#This should be easy to automate, yes. I don't have an account with the bot flag set, though, and I certainly don't want to flood [[Special:RecentChanges]] with automated uploads (and it'd be good form to ask first, anyway).
:#Someone with a better knowledge of CSS might want to look at that.
:#[{{canonicalurl:Template:Alternate tilesets|diff=83658&amp;oldid=83648}} Done].
:Would there be a problem with renaming the &lt;tt&gt;name&lt;/tt&gt; parameter/converting it into a numbered parameter? It seems it'd be the "main" parameter, anyway, so &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{alternate tilesets|giant ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; might be better. —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 12:28, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

::Thanks, that's a significant improvement. Poking around on bilious.alt.org last night I found a page that does what we're looking for, but it seems to do it by loading the entire tileset file and cropping.
::http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/tilecmp.php
::I'm not a skilled enough html programmer to try to implement something like this in the template, but it seems like it may be a better solution. It would be ideal if there was a way to have the template lookup xy coordinates for each tile, but I don't know if it's possible to put lookup functionality into a template.
::--[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 13:42, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

:::I'm not sure there's a good MediaWiki solution for this. The lookup thing could be done in a &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:…}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt;, though I'm not sure it's worth it. That HTML/CSS-based cropping seems quite hackish to me. (Also, it doesn't allow us to link to a single tile, [[:File:Giant ant.png|like this]].) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 14:57, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

::::It wouldn't be too hard to code a MW extension that does lookups like converting a monster name into tile position within the large tile image. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] ([[User talk:Paxed|talk]]) 16:12, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

:::::The more I think about it, the less enthused I am with that solution. For one thing, it sounds difficult to implement. For another, it would entail loading several full tilesets for each page rather than just the tiles in question, which could bog down load times. I guess we're probably better off going the mass upload route.
:::::On that note, if anyone has a solution that would allow them to cut up the files, I'm happy to take on doing the renaming by hand. We'll also need a way to do a mass upload to the server, since I'm not of a mind to upload several thousand individual files.
:::::--[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 20:37, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

::::::I already wrote a program to cut the tilesets (tested it on Geoduck's only so far, but should work on any tileset) and split them into many tiles.
::::::As for uploading them, that should also be easy to automate, but it should be done using a bot-flagged account once there's consensus on the method to be used (no use for hundreds of unused images if it's done some other way). —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 20:48, 29 March 2013 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>59xd77yw38svi7kov2ijlm7qkw31hec</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>83680</id>
      <parentid>83669</parentid>
      <timestamp>2013-03-30T04:12:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Bcode</username>
        <id>4000180</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Putting alternate tilesets in articles */ fixing [[Template:Alternate tilesets]] call</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="65399">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

I am one of a growing number of NetHack players using smartphones and tablets to play the game. Most of us use one of various graphical tilesets because they are more friendly to the new media (I prefer the Abigaba/Chozo tileset myself). As such, I've long wanted to add alternate tiles to articles on monsters/items/etc. to make NetHackWiki more usable to people like me. I create the [[Template:Alternate_tilesets]] for this purpose, which produces a result like so:
{{Alternate tilesets|giant ant}}

I'd like some help to get this ready for production:
#Does anyone have a way of systematically cutting up large tileset files into numbered subfiles that can be renamed and uploaded to the wiki?
#Can someone please fix the template to float *below* the monster, weapon, etc. template rather than next to it?
#Can someone please fix the template to be expandable (e.g. "more" button) rather than always appearing, as it's quite large and could be distracting to many non-smartphone/tablet players

Any other improvement suggestions welcome. Thanks!
--[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 23:19, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

: I agree this is a good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 09:03, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

:#This should be easy to automate, yes. I don't have an account with the bot flag set, though, and I certainly don't want to flood [[Special:RecentChanges]] with automated uploads (and it'd be good form to ask first, anyway).
:#Someone with a better knowledge of CSS might want to look at that.
:#[{{canonicalurl:Template:Alternate tilesets|diff=83658&amp;oldid=83648}} Done].
:Would there be a problem with renaming the &lt;tt&gt;name&lt;/tt&gt; parameter/converting it into a numbered parameter? It seems it'd be the "main" parameter, anyway, so &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{alternate tilesets|giant ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; might be better. —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 12:28, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

::Thanks, that's a significant improvement. Poking around on bilious.alt.org last night I found a page that does what we're looking for, but it seems to do it by loading the entire tileset file and cropping.
::http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/tilecmp.php
::I'm not a skilled enough html programmer to try to implement something like this in the template, but it seems like it may be a better solution. It would be ideal if there was a way to have the template lookup xy coordinates for each tile, but I don't know if it's possible to put lookup functionality into a template.
::--[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 13:42, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

:::I'm not sure there's a good MediaWiki solution for this. The lookup thing could be done in a &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:…}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt;, though I'm not sure it's worth it. That HTML/CSS-based cropping seems quite hackish to me. (Also, it doesn't allow us to link to a single tile, [[:File:Giant ant.png|like this]].) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 14:57, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

::::It wouldn't be too hard to code a MW extension that does lookups like converting a monster name into tile position within the large tile image. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] ([[User talk:Paxed|talk]]) 16:12, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

:::::The more I think about it, the less enthused I am with that solution. For one thing, it sounds difficult to implement. For another, it would entail loading several full tilesets for each page rather than just the tiles in question, which could bog down load times. I guess we're probably better off going the mass upload route.
:::::On that note, if anyone has a solution that would allow them to cut up the files, I'm happy to take on doing the renaming by hand. We'll also need a way to do a mass upload to the server, since I'm not of a mind to upload several thousand individual files.
:::::--[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 20:37, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

::::::I already wrote a program to cut the tilesets (tested it on Geoduck's only so far, but should work on any tileset) and split them into many tiles.
::::::As for uploading them, that should also be easy to automate, but it should be done using a bot-flagged account once there's consensus on the method to be used (no use for hundreds of unused images if it's done some other way). —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 20:48, 29 March 2013 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ntyq79f3rncc5d5hzhzg8ehenksy1cs</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>83683</id>
      <parentid>83680</parentid>
      <timestamp>2013-03-30T11:20:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Prometheus77</username>
        <id>4000292</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Putting alternate tilesets in articles */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="66237">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

I am one of a growing number of NetHack players using smartphones and tablets to play the game. Most of us use one of various graphical tilesets because they are more friendly to the new media (I prefer the Abigaba/Chozo tileset myself). As such, I've long wanted to add alternate tiles to articles on monsters/items/etc. to make NetHackWiki more usable to people like me. I create the [[Template:Alternate_tilesets]] for this purpose, which produces a result like so:
{{Alternate tilesets|giant ant}}

I'd like some help to get this ready for production:
#Does anyone have a way of systematically cutting up large tileset files into numbered subfiles that can be renamed and uploaded to the wiki?
#Can someone please fix the template to float *below* the monster, weapon, etc. template rather than next to it?
#Can someone please fix the template to be expandable (e.g. "more" button) rather than always appearing, as it's quite large and could be distracting to many non-smartphone/tablet players

Any other improvement suggestions welcome. Thanks!
--[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 23:19, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

: I agree this is a good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 09:03, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

:#This should be easy to automate, yes. I don't have an account with the bot flag set, though, and I certainly don't want to flood [[Special:RecentChanges]] with automated uploads (and it'd be good form to ask first, anyway).
:#Someone with a better knowledge of CSS might want to look at that.
:#[{{canonicalurl:Template:Alternate tilesets|diff=83658&amp;oldid=83648}} Done].
:Would there be a problem with renaming the &lt;tt&gt;name&lt;/tt&gt; parameter/converting it into a numbered parameter? It seems it'd be the "main" parameter, anyway, so &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{alternate tilesets|giant ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; might be better. —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 12:28, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

::Thanks, that's a significant improvement. Poking around on bilious.alt.org last night I found a page that does what we're looking for, but it seems to do it by loading the entire tileset file and cropping.
::http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/tilecmp.php
::I'm not a skilled enough html programmer to try to implement something like this in the template, but it seems like it may be a better solution. It would be ideal if there was a way to have the template lookup xy coordinates for each tile, but I don't know if it's possible to put lookup functionality into a template.
::--[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 13:42, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

:::I'm not sure there's a good MediaWiki solution for this. The lookup thing could be done in a &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:…}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt;, though I'm not sure it's worth it. That HTML/CSS-based cropping seems quite hackish to me. (Also, it doesn't allow us to link to a single tile, [[:File:Giant ant.png|like this]].) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 14:57, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

::::It wouldn't be too hard to code a MW extension that does lookups like converting a monster name into tile position within the large tile image. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] ([[User talk:Paxed|talk]]) 16:12, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

:::::The more I think about it, the less enthused I am with that solution. For one thing, it sounds difficult to implement. For another, it would entail loading several full tilesets for each page rather than just the tiles in question, which could bog down load times. I guess we're probably better off going the mass upload route.
:::::On that note, if anyone has a solution that would allow them to cut up the files, I'm happy to take on doing the renaming by hand. We'll also need a way to do a mass upload to the server, since I'm not of a mind to upload several thousand individual files.
:::::--[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 20:37, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

::::::I already wrote a program to cut the tilesets (tested it on Geoduck's only so far, but should work on any tileset) and split them into many tiles.
::::::As for uploading them, that should also be easy to automate, but it should be done using a bot-flagged account once there's consensus on the method to be used (no use for hundreds of unused images if it's done some other way). —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 20:48, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

:::::::I edited the template to remove the multiple instances of Default (you really only need 32x32) and attempted to make all of the tiles scale to the same size (64 height). For some reason, it won't force smaller images to scale up to 64, however, so you still have for example NeXTSTEP tiles appearing at an unrecognizably small size. I note that looking at the file's page does scale it up in a nicely pixellated fashion (http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NeXTSTEP_giant_ant.png), but apparently the &lt;nowiki&gt;[[file:foo.png|x32px]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; syntax doesn't scale up, only down. Any help?
:::::::Also, I noticed bilious has several tilesets that I didn't include: itakura, aoki, aoki2k5, and Kins. Any others we ought to include?
:::::::--[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 11:20, 30 March 2013 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>6khysmbqqh636wqmx5ege2xp9vgvz2v</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>83689</id>
      <parentid>83683</parentid>
      <timestamp>2013-03-30T16:20:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Bcode</username>
        <id>4000180</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Putting alternate tilesets in articles */ all x64px now</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="66708">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

I am one of a growing number of NetHack players using smartphones and tablets to play the game. Most of us use one of various graphical tilesets because they are more friendly to the new media (I prefer the Abigaba/Chozo tileset myself). As such, I've long wanted to add alternate tiles to articles on monsters/items/etc. to make NetHackWiki more usable to people like me. I create the [[Template:Alternate_tilesets]] for this purpose, which produces a result like so:
{{Alternate tilesets|giant ant}}

I'd like some help to get this ready for production:
#Does anyone have a way of systematically cutting up large tileset files into numbered subfiles that can be renamed and uploaded to the wiki?
#Can someone please fix the template to float *below* the monster, weapon, etc. template rather than next to it?
#Can someone please fix the template to be expandable (e.g. "more" button) rather than always appearing, as it's quite large and could be distracting to many non-smartphone/tablet players

Any other improvement suggestions welcome. Thanks!
--[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 23:19, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

: I agree this is a good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 09:03, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

:#This should be easy to automate, yes. I don't have an account with the bot flag set, though, and I certainly don't want to flood [[Special:RecentChanges]] with automated uploads (and it'd be good form to ask first, anyway).
:#Someone with a better knowledge of CSS might want to look at that.
:#[{{canonicalurl:Template:Alternate tilesets|diff=83658&amp;oldid=83648}} Done].
:Would there be a problem with renaming the &lt;tt&gt;name&lt;/tt&gt; parameter/converting it into a numbered parameter? It seems it'd be the "main" parameter, anyway, so &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{alternate tilesets|giant ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; might be better. —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 12:28, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

::Thanks, that's a significant improvement. Poking around on bilious.alt.org last night I found a page that does what we're looking for, but it seems to do it by loading the entire tileset file and cropping.
::http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/tilecmp.php
::I'm not a skilled enough html programmer to try to implement something like this in the template, but it seems like it may be a better solution. It would be ideal if there was a way to have the template lookup xy coordinates for each tile, but I don't know if it's possible to put lookup functionality into a template.
::--[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 13:42, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

:::I'm not sure there's a good MediaWiki solution for this. The lookup thing could be done in a &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:…}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt;, though I'm not sure it's worth it. That HTML/CSS-based cropping seems quite hackish to me. (Also, it doesn't allow us to link to a single tile, [[:File:Giant ant.png|like this]].) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 14:57, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

::::It wouldn't be too hard to code a MW extension that does lookups like converting a monster name into tile position within the large tile image. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] ([[User talk:Paxed|talk]]) 16:12, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

:::::The more I think about it, the less enthused I am with that solution. For one thing, it sounds difficult to implement. For another, it would entail loading several full tilesets for each page rather than just the tiles in question, which could bog down load times. I guess we're probably better off going the mass upload route.
:::::On that note, if anyone has a solution that would allow them to cut up the files, I'm happy to take on doing the renaming by hand. We'll also need a way to do a mass upload to the server, since I'm not of a mind to upload several thousand individual files.
:::::--[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 20:37, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

::::::I already wrote a program to cut the tilesets (tested it on Geoduck's only so far, but should work on any tileset) and split them into many tiles.
::::::As for uploading them, that should also be easy to automate, but it should be done using a bot-flagged account once there's consensus on the method to be used (no use for hundreds of unused images if it's done some other way). —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 20:48, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

:::::::I edited the template to remove the multiple instances of Default (you really only need 32x32) and attempted to make all of the tiles scale to the same size (64 height). For some reason, it won't force smaller images to scale up to 64, however, so you still have for example NeXTSTEP tiles appearing at an unrecognizably small size. I note that looking at the file's page does scale it up in a nicely pixellated fashion (http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NeXTSTEP_giant_ant.png), but apparently the &lt;nowiki&gt;[[file:foo.png|x32px]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; syntax doesn't scale up, only down. Any help?
:::::::Also, I noticed bilious has several tilesets that I didn't include: itakura, aoki, aoki2k5, and Kins. Any others we ought to include?
:::::::--[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 11:20, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

::::::::(There is no need to use an external link. You can just link to [[:File:NeXTSTEP giant ant.png]]. Please also see [[Help:Images]].)
::::::::[{{canonicalurl:Template:Alternate tilesets|diff=83688&amp;oldid=83682}} They're all 64px ''high'' now.] I decided to mostly keep the aspect ratio for Geoduck's and lagged's tiles, though. —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:20, 30 March 2013 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>rz8wi613enmbvb1k0yaxpijmv6cq79i</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>83776</id>
      <parentid>83689</parentid>
      <timestamp>2013-04-02T07:09:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Bcode</username>
        <id>4000180</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Putting alternate tilesets in articles */ update on making it behave as other infoboxes do</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="67118">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

I am one of a growing number of NetHack players using smartphones and tablets to play the game. Most of us use one of various graphical tilesets because they are more friendly to the new media (I prefer the Abigaba/Chozo tileset myself). As such, I've long wanted to add alternate tiles to articles on monsters/items/etc. to make NetHackWiki more usable to people like me. I create the [[Template:Alternate_tilesets]] for this purpose, which produces a result like so:
{{Alternate tilesets|giant ant}}

I'd like some help to get this ready for production:
#Does anyone have a way of systematically cutting up large tileset files into numbered subfiles that can be renamed and uploaded to the wiki?
#Can someone please fix the template to float *below* the monster, weapon, etc. template rather than next to it?
#Can someone please fix the template to be expandable (e.g. "more" button) rather than always appearing, as it's quite large and could be distracting to many non-smartphone/tablet players

Any other improvement suggestions welcome. Thanks!
--[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 23:19, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

: I agree this is a good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 09:03, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

:#This should be easy to automate, yes. I don't have an account with the bot flag set, though, and I certainly don't want to flood [[Special:RecentChanges]] with automated uploads (and it'd be good form to ask first, anyway).
:#Someone with a better knowledge of CSS might want to look at that.
:#[{{canonicalurl:Template:Alternate tilesets|diff=83658&amp;oldid=83648}} Done].
:Would there be a problem with renaming the &lt;tt&gt;name&lt;/tt&gt; parameter/converting it into a numbered parameter? It seems it'd be the "main" parameter, anyway, so &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{alternate tilesets|giant ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt; might be better. —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 12:28, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

::Thanks, that's a significant improvement. Poking around on bilious.alt.org last night I found a page that does what we're looking for, but it seems to do it by loading the entire tileset file and cropping.
::http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/tilecmp.php
::I'm not a skilled enough html programmer to try to implement something like this in the template, but it seems like it may be a better solution. It would be ideal if there was a way to have the template lookup xy coordinates for each tile, but I don't know if it's possible to put lookup functionality into a template.
::--[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 13:42, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

:::I'm not sure there's a good MediaWiki solution for this. The lookup thing could be done in a &lt;tt&gt;&lt;nowiki&gt;{{#switch:…}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/tt&gt;, though I'm not sure it's worth it. That HTML/CSS-based cropping seems quite hackish to me. (Also, it doesn't allow us to link to a single tile, [[:File:Giant ant.png|like this]].) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 14:57, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

::::It wouldn't be too hard to code a MW extension that does lookups like converting a monster name into tile position within the large tile image. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] ([[User talk:Paxed|talk]]) 16:12, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

:::::The more I think about it, the less enthused I am with that solution. For one thing, it sounds difficult to implement. For another, it would entail loading several full tilesets for each page rather than just the tiles in question, which could bog down load times. I guess we're probably better off going the mass upload route.
:::::On that note, if anyone has a solution that would allow them to cut up the files, I'm happy to take on doing the renaming by hand. We'll also need a way to do a mass upload to the server, since I'm not of a mind to upload several thousand individual files.
:::::--[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 20:37, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

::::::I already wrote a program to cut the tilesets (tested it on Geoduck's only so far, but should work on any tileset) and split them into many tiles.
::::::As for uploading them, that should also be easy to automate, but it should be done using a bot-flagged account once there's consensus on the method to be used (no use for hundreds of unused images if it's done some other way). —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 20:48, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

:::::::I edited the template to remove the multiple instances of Default (you really only need 32x32) and attempted to make all of the tiles scale to the same size (64 height). For some reason, it won't force smaller images to scale up to 64, however, so you still have for example NeXTSTEP tiles appearing at an unrecognizably small size. I note that looking at the file's page does scale it up in a nicely pixellated fashion (http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/File:NeXTSTEP_giant_ant.png), but apparently the &lt;nowiki&gt;[[file:foo.png|x32px]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; syntax doesn't scale up, only down. Any help?
:::::::Also, I noticed bilious has several tilesets that I didn't include: itakura, aoki, aoki2k5, and Kins. Any others we ought to include?
:::::::--[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 11:20, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

::::::::(There is no need to use an external link. You can just link to [[:File:NeXTSTEP giant ant.png]]. Please also see [[Help:Images]].)
::::::::[{{canonicalurl:Template:Alternate tilesets|diff=83688&amp;oldid=83682}} They're all 64px ''high'' now.] I decided to mostly keep the aspect ratio for Geoduck's and lagged's tiles, though. —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:20, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

:::::::::I've done the second requested improvement (to make it go below other infoboxes – see the [[giant ant]] page for an example or try playing with it in the [[NetHackWiki:Sandbox|sandbox]]), too.[{{canonicalurl:Template:Alternate tilesets|diff=83775&amp;oldid=83688}}] —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 07:09, 2 April 2013 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>hv4zwfihhtvyled72b8vlecyygf07fs</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>84119</id>
      <parentid>83776</parentid>
      <timestamp>2013-04-16T14:52:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Prometheus77</username>
        <id>4000292</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Putting alternate tilesets in articles */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="60864">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]</text>
      <sha1>727s5n0zy699gtob9ih0tq5qs3etx8c</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>84284</id>
      <parentid>84119</parentid>
      <timestamp>2013-04-23T15:23:48Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Prometheus77</username>
        <id>4000292</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Role articles */ SLASH'EM role info</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="61200">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]</text>
      <sha1>6i3cgewexwf52sqgxyli96oa6bz2roi</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>84291</id>
      <parentid>84284</parentid>
      <timestamp>2013-04-23T18:10:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Tjr</username>
        <id>831</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>slashem roles: good job</comment>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="61422">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]</text>
      <sha1>kmun424rwy2hclx83soxq5p62y14zzi</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>85432</id>
      <parentid>84291</parentid>
      <timestamp>2013-05-29T15:36:36Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Bulwersator</username>
        <id>4000045</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="62439">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>0vlagh4otyuhs7xbu3lowx72oar8s0d</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>85435</id>
      <parentid>85432</parentid>
      <timestamp>2013-05-29T15:52:47Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Bcode</username>
        <id>4000180</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack */ some opinions on monsym</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="63566">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>2g0pxj9egtscj2lcoxd9ae65xssuhpa</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>85436</id>
      <parentid>85435</parentid>
      <timestamp>2013-05-29T15:57:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Bulwersator</username>
        <id>4000045</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack */ ::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters ~~~~</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="63708">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>t632lv9c8w2fhyjdewigfum0e8xkik4</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>85438</id>
      <parentid>85436</parentid>
      <timestamp>2013-05-29T16:06:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Bcode</username>
        <id>4000180</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack */ I know about that parameter, but that's not really what I meant… the implementation, anyway</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="64343">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>tq4naliakoryhzwzx1xvl0pjkn5fyty</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>87406</id>
      <parentid>85438</parentid>
      <timestamp>2013-10-17T07:32:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ASnail</username>
        <id>4000445</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Role articles */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="64614">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>f4lz9azjc91e0asqgzrmg0u377hfkr3</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>88140</id>
      <parentid>87406</parentid>
      <timestamp>2014-01-12T05:22:55Z</timestamp>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="64885">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>q02s1845hlnlhcrls3bfjgw3zqd6n1a</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>91841</id>
      <parentid>88140</parentid>
      <timestamp>2015-01-11T04:56:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Raindog308</username>
        <id>4000464</id>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="65409">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>25qhxnzsu8ag04l21qbafzulu7gru6g</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>92026</id>
      <parentid>91841</parentid>
      <timestamp>2015-01-30T02:52:45Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Raindog308</username>
        <id>4000464</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back? */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="65524">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>byr33hwd6flobg5dabzz0umkzb13rn1</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>92669</id>
      <parentid>92026</parentid>
      <timestamp>2015-03-08T16:39:48Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Vitorgghz</username>
        <id>4000591</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Medica Ossium */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="66136">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Leve 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[[Media:http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]]
[[Media:http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D</text>
      <sha1>tf85ruafqr9vf4udmgfr0av6osdnhbj</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>92677</id>
      <parentid>92669</parentid>
      <timestamp>2015-03-09T05:52:53Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <ip>76.121.93.40</ip>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Medica Ossium */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="66121">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D</text>
      <sha1>lxug48cuemw5bnf5bvxhzf20m3bwyfq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>92687</id>
      <parentid>92677</parentid>
      <timestamp>2015-03-09T19:48:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ais523</username>
        <id>27</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Medica Ossium */ it's a player monster</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="66284">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>jwmyo86bgagb18fhy1nwjyw0jbwfmy5</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>93686</id>
      <parentid>92687</parentid>
      <timestamp>2015-04-24T08:23:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Netzhack</username>
        <id>4000251</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New page please: Command line arguments */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="66643">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>l93cqr9zfenpcmdsh5jytxfadjqecdf</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>94929</id>
      <parentid>93686</parentid>
      <timestamp>2015-06-18T13:09:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kahran042</username>
        <id>443</id>
      </contributor>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="67020">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>tfuli4whq8244lg9o16zctdl15x1rfk</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>97060</id>
      <parentid>94929</parentid>
      <timestamp>2015-10-22T18:41:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Char212</username>
        <id>4000651</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="67115">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n</text>
      <sha1>ay02t7xxnk3efjv405jzba14k0hp0py</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>102907</id>
      <parentid>97060</parentid>
      <timestamp>2016-05-26T01:09:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Fenris</username>
        <id>4000764</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="67524">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>gw9ejxevfll3ku12dvjurd08ebsswq9</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>103347</id>
      <parentid>102907</parentid>
      <timestamp>2016-06-29T22:22:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>MyNameWasTaken</username>
        <id>4000790</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="67706">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>i117hd2q4tzg51yn0swkc867rgt5qsh</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>103357</id>
      <parentid>103347</parentid>
      <timestamp>2016-07-01T13:58:50Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Cherokee Jack</username>
        <id>4000629</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>How to update source code references</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="69275">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>cmde980ve5msd5pd4g5lhp59iyvvy2o</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>107758</id>
      <parentid>103357</parentid>
      <timestamp>2017-10-23T05:20:20Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Burden1tom</username>
        <id>4001066</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Amazon Prime Customer Service @ +1_844_679_1016 @Call Amazon For Prime Membership @ +1_844_679_1016  */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="71496">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

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      <sha1>m05gm6pbvws129bav4esd1xri8rgffp</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>107759</id>
      <parentid>107758</parentid>
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      <contributor>
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      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/Burden1tom|Burden1tom]] ([[User talk:Burden1tom|talk]]) to last revision by [[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
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&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>cmde980ve5msd5pd4g5lhp59iyvvy2o</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>109204</id>
      <parentid>107759</parentid>
      <timestamp>2018-03-22T08:52:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Luldenced</username>
        <id>4001129</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* We need a new logo */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="69535">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}
:::: It's very quite and colorful! I like it. I have some some time as someone[https://doahomework.com/research-paper-help/ help me write my term paper] and maybe I could create some interesting ideas) --[[User:Luldenced|Luldenced]] 10:48, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>0w5rhvbqugglj30ck7xhsx5uxy6a3ix</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>109205</id>
      <parentid>109204</parentid>
      <timestamp>2018-03-22T09:03:18Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Paxed</username>
        <id>630</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/Luldenced|Luldenced]] ([[User talk:Luldenced|talk]]) to last revision by [[User:Dtype|Dtype]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="69275">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>cmde980ve5msd5pd4g5lhp59iyvvy2o</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>122883</id>
      <parentid>109205</parentid>
      <timestamp>2018-06-05T00:35:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Winny</username>
        <id>4000894</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Mathoid server (fallback math rendering service) 502 sometimes */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="69984">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Mathoid server (fallback math rendering service) 502 sometimes ==

When using the Appearance option "MathML with SVG or PNG fallback (recommended for modern browsers and accessibility tools)", I often get 502 Errors from [http://mathoid.testme.wmflabs.org/ mathoid.testme.wmflabs.org]. I fixed it by instead switching the Math option to "PNG images". I looked at the current MediaWiki documentation for the Math extension, and it looks like they [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Math#Mathoid suggest using a different server for rendering math]. Maybe NetHackWiki should use the URL mentioned in the documentation? &amp;mdash; [[User:Winny|Winny]] ([[User talk:Winny|talk]]) 00:35, 5 June 2018 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>aqx45da3rp82r0y8hu67iqho0ydierd</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>122884</id>
      <parentid>122883</parentid>
      <timestamp>2018-06-05T00:43:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Winny</username>
        <id>4000894</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Undo revision 122883 by [[Special:Contributions/Winny|Winny]] ([[User talk:Winny|talk]]) moving to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]]</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="69275">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>cmde980ve5msd5pd4g5lhp59iyvvy2o</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>124805</id>
      <parentid>122884</parentid>
      <timestamp>2018-12-02T15:14:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>GetOffThisPlanet</username>
        <id>4001222</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="69938">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>3hi83dv6o9exer7g7obiupuvvfsrui2</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>125951</id>
      <parentid>124805</parentid>
      <timestamp>2019-05-24T11:55:48Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Andrio Celos</username>
        <id>4000681</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Link to GitHub with Template:Refsrc? */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="70596">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>k1je2q9to4gkbozg7a9cordilqkmf5c</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>125956</id>
      <parentid>125951</parentid>
      <timestamp>2019-05-24T22:15:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Qazmlpok</username>
        <id>663</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Link to GitHub with Template:Refsrc? */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="71038">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>nrvz1bsy61chi9z4bp8hd2ur7o8egvz</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>126928</id>
      <parentid>125956</parentid>
      <timestamp>2019-08-10T21:45:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Pinkbeast</username>
        <id>4001163</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Artifact weapon */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="71282">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ejmrof4rzc8vcmc45k23j66c3mbo4qq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>132979</id>
      <parentid>126928</parentid>
      <timestamp>2020-03-21T17:02:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Aximili</username>
        <id>4000978</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Identification section */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="72168">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>7xf0hw1w4xv7sx7ekeuvxirmmfchouh</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>132980</id>
      <parentid>132979</parentid>
      <timestamp>2020-03-21T17:05:24Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Aximili</username>
        <id>4000978</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Identification section */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="72342">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section.</text>
      <sha1>adp1std64vic592dj7i9b2cmgkldufu</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>132981</id>
      <parentid>132980</parentid>
      <timestamp>2020-03-21T17:05:35Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Aximili</username>
        <id>4000978</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Identification section */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="72425">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>bv0tkele95hsiddrgz2wuy3sqiyandq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>133012</id>
      <parentid>132981</parentid>
      <timestamp>2020-03-22T23:28:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Umbire the Phantom</username>
        <id>4001279</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Identification section */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="73418">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature; informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>0n3un4zb0c0tkebd04bv0gmghtvww3y</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>133024</id>
      <parentid>133012</parentid>
      <timestamp>2020-03-23T13:52:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Umbire the Phantom</username>
        <id>4001279</id>
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      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Identification section */</comment>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="73418">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>3205nzvacr8n0kyuuen0w0nil82hpt5</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>133045</id>
      <parentid>133024</parentid>
      <timestamp>2020-03-24T23:23:37Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Aximili</username>
        <id>4000978</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Identification section */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="73617">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>b6uijkevrrfzsn1ibsn7e5v5r6nof96</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>140765</id>
      <parentid>133045</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-06-06T18:05:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Actual-nh</username>
        <id>4001463</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* "What links here" link availability? */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="74280">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.freenode.net/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.freenode.net - see [[Freenode]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>2uezg5zpji8o8wlgjt9ivsbc985yztz</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>140766</id>
      <parentid>140765</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-06-06T18:15:12Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Actual-nh</username>
        <id>4001463</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Freenode to Libera</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="74275">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>k5rle5wa05qysh0dimwd1ae1i2hyut1</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>143089</id>
      <parentid>140766</parentid>
      <timestamp>2021-10-06T00:18:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Kingeorg</username>
        <id>4000666</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="74922">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Freenode|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>kyo4300hwo86nbgagg4egj0zgkul8ps</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>144310</id>
      <parentid>143089</parentid>
      <timestamp>2022-02-02T11:35:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Umbire the Phantom</username>
        <id>4001279</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="74920">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>qawpvvp0f6e12lac8kcfu85mx7wl3il</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>149932</id>
      <parentid>144310</parentid>
      <timestamp>2023-02-10T18:58:12Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Sgeo</username>
        <id>729</id>
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      <comment>/* GetIndie.wiki listing? */ new section</comment>
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&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>0c4r5r0rajk1vwh9y0d1gkw1inftemv</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>149933</id>
      <parentid>149932</parentid>
      <timestamp>2023-02-10T21:35:42Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Cathartes</username>
        <id>4001483</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* GetIndie.wiki listing? */ reply</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="75664">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>n4kvyl0hrs1nxviyltderra16c9lttc</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>149946</id>
      <parentid>149933</parentid>
      <timestamp>2023-02-12T22:53:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Cathartes</username>
        <id>4001483</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* GetIndie.wiki listing? */ submitted</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="75877">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>b1hyfilbd9ypylcwml8k4jjj4sgwsps</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>150968</id>
      <parentid>149946</parentid>
      <timestamp>2023-05-26T06:31:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Cathartes</username>
        <id>4001483</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="77597">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ljg4jryikbpwdiohy6wzkdqiqbs9o3q</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>150969</id>
      <parentid>150968</parentid>
      <timestamp>2023-05-26T14:13:37Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Umbire the Phantom</username>
        <id>4001279</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful */ reply</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="77877">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>hc1bv3z2coif4ygwxdpb0larugdv6oh</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>150970</id>
      <parentid>150969</parentid>
      <timestamp>2023-05-26T14:39:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ion frigate</username>
        <id>375</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Disabled for now</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="78213">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>c5j4n49csvwszxdg546brdvnnyqllmu</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>151753</id>
      <parentid>150970</parentid>
      <timestamp>2023-06-22T18:06:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Cssdixieland</username>
        <id>4001674</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>On the incorrectly implemented limit on supposedly 'large edits' by new users</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="78658">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki.</text>
      <sha1>d0cer2cfg403wmxccp8nq6xgvl5mnzf</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>151758</id>
      <parentid>151753</parentid>
      <timestamp>2023-06-22T23:40:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ion frigate</username>
        <id>375</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Filter is gone now</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="78869">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki.

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>bkcq5y5bxke5jfwa78fhhnsnkv2ov00</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>151895</id>
      <parentid>151758</parentid>
      <timestamp>2023-06-30T17:59:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Cssdixieland</username>
        <id>4001674</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful */ Adding name of contributor (sorry, when I wrote it some days ago I did not add it)</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="78964">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>9ds12no94b6cqlrx172j6ui2gixh0yp</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>151896</id>
      <parentid>151895</parentid>
      <timestamp>2023-06-30T21:32:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Umbire the Phantom</username>
        <id>4001279</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful */ very small note re: original reply time</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="79000">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>809qrthgsevpi2bs6bv43dbl7c6chkz</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>151910</id>
      <parentid>151896</parentid>
      <timestamp>2023-07-01T02:34:58Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Cssdixieland</username>
        <id>4001674</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>New section: Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="86068">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

Version or...........Ascensions......Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero.......in Junethack 2023........per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..........................575....................................4
NotDNetHack.............8..........................211....................................3.79
GnollHack..................3............................92....................................3.26
DNetHack...................7..........................248....................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2............................99....................................2.02
AceHack....................3..........................174....................................1.72
NetHack4...................9..........................588....................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51........................3936....................................1.3
NetHack Fourk...........1............................84....................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25........................3333....................................0.75
XNetHack...................3..........................501....................................0.6
EvilHack.....................4..........................742....................................0.54
Slash'EM....................1..........................221....................................0.45
DynaHack..................1..........................358.....................................0.28
HackEM.....................2..........................837.....................................0.24
GruntHack.................1..........................470.....................................0.21
UnNetHack................2........................1245.....................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0............................61.....................................0
SporkHack.................0............................77.....................................0
FIQHack.....................0..........................196.....................................0
SpliceHack.................0........................1630.....................................0

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended.
On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended.
Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive.
A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), serious or casual commit (preserving older sessions or not), with various levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>3mprxzcrlkxacw5vv8qwnbnv0705wb2</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>151927</id>
      <parentid>151910</parentid>
      <timestamp>2023-07-01T11:00:41Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Cssdixieland</username>
        <id>4001674</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Including a hyper link to the GnollHack Forum.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="86282">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

Version or...........Ascensions......Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero.......in Junethack 2023........per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..........................575....................................4
NotDNetHack.............8..........................211....................................3.79
GnollHack..................3............................92....................................3.26
DNetHack...................7..........................248....................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2............................99....................................2.02
AceHack....................3..........................174....................................1.72
NetHack4...................9..........................588....................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51........................3936....................................1.3
NetHack Fourk...........1............................84....................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25........................3333....................................0.75
XNetHack...................3..........................501....................................0.6
EvilHack.....................4..........................742....................................0.54
Slash'EM....................1..........................221....................................0.45
DynaHack..................1..........................358.....................................0.28
HackEM.....................2..........................837.....................................0.24
GruntHack.................1..........................470.....................................0.21
UnNetHack................2........................1245.....................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0............................61.....................................0
SporkHack.................0............................77.....................................0
FIQHack.....................0..........................196.....................................0
SpliceHack.................0........................1630.....................................0

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended.
On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended.
Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive.
A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), serious or casual commit (preserving older sessions or not), with various levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)</text>
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&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>76jqzlukw3hao7iznjpi57asb20y2lm</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171077</id>
      <parentid>151968</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-19T02:23:32Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang?</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="87155">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>5h5cwb6as6qy9okne5xpsggkyu49zv0</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171095</id>
      <parentid>171077</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-19T06:56:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a' */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="93326">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ombtecmwh1cp6hq348cdpf5yz9bgg6n</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171099</id>
      <parentid>171095</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-19T12:14:38Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b' */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="96694">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}</text>
      <sha1>mh85njk9bqdf2bn5zpyb0613644g0pj</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171107</id>
      <parentid>171099</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-19T14:41:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c' */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="101661">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}</text>
      <sha1>euy4dcfj1jh7yra4ekvzm0jvfp665f5</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171111</id>
      <parentid>171107</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-19T17:45:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd' */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="106117">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd' ==

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}</text>
      <sha1>snor9wxil0r06900eel517ykgdxbfbz</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171117</id>
      <parentid>171111</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-19T22:20:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e' */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="111406">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd' ==

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e' ==

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}</text>
      <sha1>78e8aywmrfmjukjftk6t54bhbm67mdb</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171148</id>
      <parentid>171117</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-20T02:00:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Cathartes</username>
        <id>4001483</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? */ do it!</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="111929">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd' ==

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e' ==

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}</text>
      <sha1>talex2jbu6l173fac4gr1inj0i7cpeu</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171176</id>
      <parentid>171148</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-20T03:35:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? */ coming up, gotta clear my plate first</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="112067">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd' ==

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e' ==

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}</text>
      <sha1>095e0tt3qfi97zvt2i208ti5cawxz30</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171245</id>
      <parentid>171176</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-20T12:03:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f' */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="115856">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd' ==

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e' ==

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f' ==

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}</text>
      <sha1>4j7kqwqg57y1v950ro4f5hoyyrd8zm5</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171265</id>
      <parentid>171245</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-20T16:09:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? */ First attempt failed.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="116151">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd' ==

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e' ==

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f' ==

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}</text>
      <sha1>32en2x0a4elr5xxgpaymdc7uda08xut</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171347</id>
      <parentid>171265</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-21T02:49:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Umbire the Phantom</username>
        <id>4001279</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a' */ Done</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="116279">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd' ==

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e' ==

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f' ==

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}</text>
      <sha1>e7f6e2q3uwimjk47sv024dzluh8d72t</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171349</id>
      <parentid>171347</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-21T02:59:21Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a' */ Verified.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="116384">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd' ==

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e' ==

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f' ==

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}</text>
      <sha1>gx8tl8jfb0nqhs7uamp4ohc0i4r4q1i</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171350</id>
      <parentid>171349</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-21T03:04:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a' */ make tables collapsible + collapsed</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="116440">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd' ==

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e' ==

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f' ==

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}</text>
      <sha1>6g4i7x9wsbi13635i12v67z2g2rlxdn</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171351</id>
      <parentid>171350</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-21T03:07:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>make tables collapsible + collapsed</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="116496">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd' ==

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e' ==

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f' ==

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}</text>
      <sha1>3z810qskh5gl10el71vyjih7h1gjd27</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171352</id>
      <parentid>171351</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-21T03:08:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>make tables collapsible + collapsed</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="116552">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd' ==

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e' ==

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f' ==

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}</text>
      <sha1>13j4uawpbqp9ra6rbh8dlhvnqcr4hsn</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171353</id>
      <parentid>171352</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-21T03:10:03Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>make tables collapsible + collapsed</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="116608">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd' ==

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e' ==

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f' ==

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}</text>
      <sha1>1m8plt62uspv4gj620gl0r0uby7vynn</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171354</id>
      <parentid>171353</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-21T03:11:30Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>make tables collapsible + collapsed</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="116664">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd' ==

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e' ==

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f' ==

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}</text>
      <sha1>9jmhwmugxrsztpr9m7drztqx2bernup</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171355</id>
      <parentid>171354</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-21T03:12:19Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>make tables collapsible + collapsed</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="116720">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Watchlists missing on new wiki ==

If you just came here from Wikia, you may have noticed that [[Special:Watchlist|your watchlist]] is empty.  Apparently, the [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|MediaWikiAuth extension]] doesn't import it automatically.  However, you can fix the problem easily:

# Go to [http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Watchlist/raw Special:Watchlist/raw at Wikia].  If you're logged in, you should see a textbox listing the contents of your watchlist on the old wiki.  Select it all and copy it to your clipboard.
# Go to [[Special:Watchlist/raw|the corresponding page]] on the new wiki and paste in what you just copied.  Then click "{{int:watchlistedit-raw-submit}}".

Happy hacking!  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:08, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

PS. It looks like user preferences don't get imported either, even though [[mw:Extension:MediaWikiAuth|the documentation]] says they should be.  Alas, I know of no such easy shortcut to fixing that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:18, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

== We need a new logo ==

[[File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|thumb|132px|Logo suggestion by [[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]]]]
Since we're no longer at Wikia, the [[:File:Wiki.png|current logo]] (which spells "wiki@") seems a bit inappropriate.  We should pick a new one.  To kick things off, here's [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.png|my quick suggestion]] based on the old idea (monsters spelling out the name of the site).  There's also an [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg|SVG version]], &lt;s&gt;although the SVG renderer here makes an awful mess of it&lt;/s&gt;.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 02:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

:Looking good! :) Could be a bit less rainbow'ish, though, but that's just my opinion. &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 09:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
::I think it's pretty much perfect. Looks like happy and colourful and ... oh my god they're tearing me apart, help help! --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 10:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Don't worry. It's just a dwarf king. :) [[User:Kynde|Kynde]] 06:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
{{clear}}

== Problems on this Wiki ==

:''Section moved to [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues]].  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 16:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC)''

== Move announcements at various places ==
Done: [[rgrn]] and most nethack forums.

Done: [http://community.livejournal.com/nethack/106620.html LiveJournal NetHack community]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Most places in [http://nethack-de.sourceforge.net/nethack_poll_results.txt] still need announcement postings:

Adom Forum: http://www.adom.de/forums/
Angband forum: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/
Dwarf Fortress forum: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/
Kingdom of Loathing forum: http://forums.kingdomofloathing.com/vb/
Temple of Roguelikes: http://www.roguetemple.com/forums/
dplusplus's blog: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/dplusplus/

BSDForen.de Forum: http://www.bsdforen.de/

Done: FaceBook: http://www.facebook.com/  (The NetHack Rules! -group with 860+ members)

I'm growing a bit wary of administrivia. Feel free to beat me to the task.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

== Unified login (in the remote future) ==

Each of several major NetHack sites has its own user namespace (this wiki, the old wiki, NAO, freenode, NAO forums, other gameservers). In a long term perspective, some form of unified login would be great. Users would benefit from less signup hassle (and less chance of impersonation). For the wiki, it's a great marketing ploy. Especially as we're competing against ourselves at Wikia. Silly as it seems, each signup act drives away visitors.

I realize this is pie-in-the-sky right now, and we have more pressing chores due to The Move.

Colliding usernames will make unified login difficult. We could let Wikiuser play as w:Wikiuser, and Naoplayer edit as n:Naoplayer until people can merge their accounts themselves. Freenode requires some thought. As a first step, I propose adding a warning "You are about to create a username that already exists on NAO/the wiki/freenode/... Please consider choosing a different name unless you are the same person."

See also: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Unified_login

:&lt;s&gt;The [[mw:Extension:CentralAuth|CentralAuth extension]], which Wikimedia uses, has been designed to address just those username collision issues.  (That's why it's so complicated; if starting from scratch, it would be much easier to just share the user table between wikis.)  However, it's been designed with the assumption that all the wikis are running on the same server(s).  I haven't really looked at the code to see if there might be any way to relax that assumption.&lt;/s&gt;  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::Ah, scratch that, I misread what the issue was.  Still, looking at how CentralAuth handles username conflicts ''might'' be useful.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Announcing edits on IRC? ==

MediaWiki can be set up to [[mw:Manual:IRC RC Bot|report edits on IRC]].  It would be kind of nice to have [[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] announce whenever someone edits the wiki, although some checks would probably have to be set up to avoid flooding the channel if someone makes lots of edits in a short time.  (Just having it not report edits marked as minor might be a good start.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 21:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:Please try it out. The usage data will be valueable, if nothing else. (Personally, I'm too old-fashioned to find value in Twitter.)
:Speaking from RSS/Atom experience, [[Special:RecentChanges]] isn't the right thing to broadcast - too much traffic. At the very least, offer some filtering. E.g. keywords: I expect a Crawl person will want to follow all Crawl-related changes, and so on. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:17, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
::[[Rodney (bot)|Rodney]] will now announce edits in #nethackwiki. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 18:23, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Google and optimization ==

Google was by far the largest source of traffic to the old site, so our Google ranking is very important. How can we raise it?

* '''Original and fresh content.''' When two sites offer identical content, one of them is downranked as copycat. We need to be different from Wikia, and we should offer Googlebot fresh stuff. Can we please have something like [[Special:AncientPages]], except that it shows only pages that have not been modified since Google spidered it, with (by humans) most visited pages sorted first?

* &lt;s&gt;Why did our main page see 1722 hits already, but all other articles go virtually unread? The page view counts were much closer on the old wiki. [[Special:PopularPages]], [[w:c:nethack:Special:Mostvisitedpages]].&lt;/s&gt; I propose adding a box to our main page that explains briefly what NetHack is, aimed at people stumbling into the wiki.

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:The special page idea sounds interesting.  I suspect one reason for the main page being so far ahead here is that all the move announcements link to it.  People get curious, click the link, go "oh, it's just like the old wiki, just a different skin" and leave.  Things ought to even out once the idly curious folks are replaced by people actually interested in looking something up.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

:&lt;s&gt;BTW, I ''think'' the reason [[-]] ranks so high is because MediaWiki uses it as a dummy page name for loading some site JS and CSS code.  Although the fact that those hits get counted at all could be considered a bug.  (At least, I hope that's it.  The other possibility is that there are some broken links somewhere actually sending people to that page.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
::There ''are'' broken links, see above near http://domain/article. [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to make it clear: Those broken links have been taken care of. Also: [[-]] is indeed used as a dummy page name by MW. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:''Don't Panic!'' Most of the visitors right now are those who already know the wiki, but have seen the move announcement in RGRN, LJ, whatever. They just pop in, put the new link in their bookmarks, and go on with their lives. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

::{{moon phase}} Agreed.  It does suggest the possibility that a well timed main page redesign might encourage those visitors to look around a bit more.  We might as well do it anyway, seeing as the current design was optimized for Wikia.  One idea I had was that we might borrow the idea of a [[wikipedia:WP:DYK|Did you know?]] section from Wikipedia (probably starting off without any age or length limits, basically just a regularly updated list of curious NetHack trivia).  It shouldn't be hard to manage, and should serve as a nice hook to lure casual visitors in.

::Ps. I already made some small tweaks to the main page, including greeting logged-in users by name and notifying them of full/new moon like the game does.  I also wrote a quick little [[Template:Moon phase|template]] for displaying moon phases like NAO does (although my version so far only has one image for each of the 8 phases nethack uses internally).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:25, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
::Moon phase does not show up for me.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
:::You mean on the main page or at [[Template:Moon phase]]?  The version I [{{fullurl:Main_Page|diff=56298&amp;oldid=54072}} put on the main page] only says anything when the moon is new or full, just like in the game.  I was thinking of putting (something like) {{[[template:moon phase|moon phase]]}} on the main page too, but hadn't got around to the that yet. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 19:32, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

* '''rel="nofollow"'''. I changed most high-ranking incoming links, but virtually all wikis make external links useless. This is the reason for our abysmal Google rank. (Forums fare better.) The only solution I can see is to ask the respective admins to add us to their interwiki table, and then to make those links interwiki links. Of course, we have to link to them with a "good" link first... --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
:: The [[User:Tjr/incoming_links|list of incoming links]]. Admins go to "view deleted". Our former wikihost should not see this.

*SEO stuff
** valid html. [http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnethackwiki.com&amp;charset=%28detect+automatically%29&amp;doctype=Inline&amp;group=0 errors on main page].
*** If MediaWiki generates non-valid html, bring it up with MediaWiki devels. Trying to patch those myself would be futile. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;Robots.txt needs a sitemap: "Sitemap: http://nethackwiki.com/sitemap.xml"
***See [[mw:Manual:GenerateSitemap.php]].  This should probably be run from cron or something.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
****Sitemap is now done, and will be generated once a week. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:22, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** It doesn't work. Google thinks the sitemap says ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://sitemap-wikihackdb-ns_0-0.xml.gz&lt;/nowiki&gt;''. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
**Perhaps control how we appear in Google results. Example to improve upon: &lt;meta name="description" content="NetHackWiki is about NetHack, the roguelike game, and its variants."&gt;
**&lt;s&gt;The main page should not link to unrelated wikis in the footer.&lt;/s&gt;
**Make it easy to link to us. Example, see the sidebar or the end of the text: http://www.wordsinarow.com/how-to-get-links.html, [http://www.wordsinarow.com/linktous.html linktous].
** Duplicate content should be removed. [http://searchenginewatch.com/3641430 Article on that.]
*** &lt;s&gt;www.nethackwiki.com now redirects to nethackwiki.com&lt;/s&gt;
*'''broken internal links'''
** &lt;s&gt;[[Template:Timeline_of_NetHack]] generates ''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/nethack/nethackwiki-test/mediawiki-1.16.0/index.php/Hack_1.0&lt;/nowiki&gt;''
*** Looks like the EasyTimeline extension was broken before, and some of the broken imagemaps are still cached.  Bumping $wgTimelineSettings-&gt;epochTimestamp should fix it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Fixed. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** &lt;s&gt;''&lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1&lt;/nowiki&gt;'' is linked from 43 pages as Googlebot sees them, e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Detect_monsters&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/s&gt;
*** Huh? [[google:link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1]] says "''&lt;nowiki&gt;Your search - link:http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/$1 - did not match any documents.&lt;/nowiki&gt;''" to me.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** It shows up in the Google Webmaster Tools. I've requested a "show as the Googlebot sees it". Please tell me your Google account, and I'll add you to webtools. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
***** http://pastebin.com/3EQUZU6f shows the offending page. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 06:55, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
******The only &lt;tt&gt;/wiki/$1&lt;/tt&gt; in there is &lt;tt&gt;wgArticlePath&lt;/tt&gt;, and that we cannot change, it's a MediaWiki variable which has to be like that. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** top really non-existant: [[forum:help]], [[NetHackWiki:Privacy_policy]]
** &lt;s&gt;Forums are excluded by robots.txt. Just look at the links in [[Forum:Watercooler]].&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;The posts are still reachable through non-disallowed links via [[:Category:Watercooler]] and [[Special:RecentChangesLinked/Category:Watercooler]].  Also, having sitemaps enabled should help search engines find them.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Fixing [[Forum:Watercooler]] would be better because that would bestow page rank onto the forums. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** We now allow robots to crawl /mediawiki/ --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:39, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

* &lt;s&gt;Top '''Google searches need to be articles''': [[net hack]], [[nethack]], [[nethacker]], [[roguelike]], [[wiki hack]], [[slashem]], [[nethack wiki]], [[sokoban level]], [[nethack spoilers]], [[nethack spoiler]], [[cursed armor]], [[game nethack]], [[nethack game]], [[nethack download]], [[download nethack]], [[nethack windows]], [[nethack for windows]], [[windows nethack]], [[nethack tiles]], [[online nethack]], [[nethack online]], [[nethack guide]], [[nethack sokoban]], [[sokoban nethack]], [[nethack pet]], [[dungeon siege class]], [[nethack armor]], [[linux nethack]], [[nethack commands]], [[play nethack]], [[nethack android]], [[android nethack]], [[nethack for android]], [[qt nethack]], [[nethack qt]], [[cursed artifacts]], [[zork zero]], [[psp nethack]], [[nethack for psp]], [[nethack psp]], [[nethack level]], [[nethack.alt.org]]. I guess the pure download links should redirect to an article about the Devteam site.&lt;/s&gt;
* Our top 6 '''key words''' and their relevance are, as reported by Google: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.
** &lt;s&gt;Please make &lt;nowiki&gt;{{SITENAME}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; report ''NetHack Wiki''.&lt;/s&gt;
*** &lt;s&gt;It should match link anchor texts, though... &lt;/s&gt;
**** &lt;s&gt;Didn't we just go through a whole bunch of work standardizing on "NetHackWiki"?  Seems a bit silly to start changing the site name again already.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
***** &lt;s&gt;People enter "nethack wiki" and "nethack" into Google. So that's where we need to show up. [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u%3d1000000000%26__c%3d1000000000%26ideaRequestType%3dKEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Google External Keyword Tool]. I didn't know better when using NetHackWiki, my fault. Changing it shouldn't be that hard with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
******&lt;s&gt;I'm in favor of keeping it "NetHackWiki", even if it means google doesn't like us. "NetHack Wiki" just doesn't do it for me. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;
** Please '''hide MediaWiki keywords''' from bots, e.g. coding them in images/scripts/...: edit, navigate, search, stub, png (in monster template), and the other ones from the top, left, footer, and section edit bar.
*** That sounds like a hopeless and futile quest to me.  This is a wiki, there will always be wiki-ish things on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** Doing it in the top, left, and footer bar would be enough. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:03, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**** This'll make it impossible to use the wiki on browsers without javascript, though. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
**&lt;s&gt;I am going to rename the category NetHackWiki into NetHack Wiki.[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
*** Decided against it to avoid keyword stuffing.--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 02:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)&lt;/s&gt;

* I've bought '''Google Adwords''' as a stop-gap measure. Please let me know if you see a way to improve the ads. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

** Unrelated to the ads, but I just noticed that the main page of this wiki is currently on the seventh position of first page the Google search "[https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=nethack+wiki nethack wiki]". :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 13:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
*** [http://amateurgeek.blogspot.com/search/label/NetHack Amateurgeek] even blogged about the move. I our Google rank sticks even after the various blog updates loose freshness. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:23, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
****At the moment this site is at position 7 after 2 en wikipedia articles and 5 old site entries. At the moment we appear to be our one worst enemy shouldn't we start considering removing the old wiki?--[[User:IngerAlHaosului|IngerAlHaosului]] 19:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::If I could, I would. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:48, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

== Source code syntax highlighting? ==

As we can now highlight syntax for several programming languages (Thanks to an [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi extension] using [http://qbnz.com/highlighter/ geshi]), should we change the source code pages to use that? For a short test, see [[User:Paxed/src geshi test]]. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:48, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

:Yes.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 10:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

How would we link to the function definitions in the source files? Geshi only knows the function name, so the links would have to be something like [[Source:invent.c#feel_cockatrice|http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Src/feel_cockatrice]], which would redirect to the correct place in the Source namespace. I already have a list of the functions at [[User:Paxed/Source Functions]], but what would be best format for the function redirects? [[Source/function_name]], or [[Src/nh343/function_name]] or what? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:You mean the text the human user will see? Why not &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Src/feel_cockatrice]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;? BTW, your list of source functions is incomplete, and macros are excluded entirely. ---[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:32, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Yes, I know it's incomplete, it's automatically generated from the src-directory, and macros aren't as easy. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:50, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Source:function_name()]] (or [[Source:Nethack 3.4.3/function_name()]]) might make sense for redirects.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

:BTW, I wonder if it would be better to keep the line numbers hardcoded and somehow kluge GeSHi to skip over them?  One nice thing about the way the source files are currently marked up is that adding annotations is really easy and idiot-proof; you can't mess up the line numbering without spending some effort on it.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

::I'm kinda leery about the parenthesis there. Maybe [[SourceRef:function_name]]? Also, I've hacked on the hilight extension, see how it looks at [[User:Paxed/src geshi test2]]. Biggest problem with it: It currently makes editing page sections impossible. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:44, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
::I solved the problem that prevented editing page sections, and I've changed all of the 3.4.3 source files to use this new syntax coloring. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Currently the function names link to [[Source:Ref/function_name]], is that good? Comments? If no objections, I'll run a bot to add the redirects... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:41, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::: Fine. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Added the source reference redirects. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:57, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the highlighting seems to make spaces and underscores 
indistinguishable?  I'm using the old MonoBook skin, so that might have something to do with it. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:25, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
:Indistinguishable? In what way? I don't see such a thing, even if I switch to monobook. Screenshot? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:02, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
::Or rather, underscores seem to show up as spaces; I uploaded a screenshot as [[Image:Underscore.JPG|thumb]]. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:02, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry, all I can say is that it Works For Me... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:11, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
:::Perhaps what you're typing in the firefox search field isn't an underscore? Try entering the underscore via the [[wikipedia:alt_code|Windows alt-code]] (underscore is 95). --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 07:26, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

:::I can replicate the bug if I change the style &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.2em monospace; }&lt;/code&gt; to &lt;code&gt;font: 1em/1em monospace;&lt;/code&gt;.  This causes the lowest few pixels of all characters to be cut off, making underscores look like spaces.  Perhaps on your browser even the 1.2em line height isn't enough?  It might be safer to set the line height to something larger, say 1.4em or more, and, if desired, use negative margins to tighten up the line spacing instead.  (For example, &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/2em monospace; margin: -0.8em 0; }&lt;/code&gt; looks identical to the current style for me, but avoids any risk of characters being cut off.)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
::::Apologies if this is a stupid question, but how do I change the font style?  My knowledge of firefox/mediawiki is somewhat lacking. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 04:25, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
:::::Edit [[User:Ion frigate/vector.css]] (assuming you're using the Vector skin. You can find the link to each of the skin specific css files in your Preferences -&gt; Appearance -&gt; Custom CSS) put something what Ilmari suggested above. (I tested this with &lt;code&gt;#line .de1, #line .de2 { font: 1em/1.4em monospace !important; }&lt;/code&gt;) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
::::::Cool, that fixed it.  Thanks! -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 19:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

::::::Actually, I was talking more about putting that style in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] so it applies to everybody.  Which I've just done.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

{{resolved top}}
A lot of geishi links seem to point nowhere. I've put the list of 404 found by Googlebot at &lt;nowiki&gt;[[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/geishi404]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]
: Fixed. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:14, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Site name "NetHack Wiki" or "NetHackWiki", important for Google search ==

People overwhelmingly search for "nethack" or "nethack wiki", and don't find us. Google has us keyworded and well-ranked for "nethackwiki". There seems to be no connection between "nethackwiki" and either "nethack wiki" or "nethack". (I'm sorry, I was not aware of this disconnect ahead of time.) This is a real problem because Google was the main referrer on the old wiki.

Monthly searches on Google: 60,500 for "nethack", 165,000 for "net+hack", 2,900 for "nethack+wiki", surprisingly same for "wikihack", negligible for "nethackwiki". [https://adwords.google.com/o/Targeting/Explorer?__u=1000000000&amp;__c=1000000000&amp;ideaRequestType=KEYWORD_IDEAS#search.none Source]

Our keywords are, as reported by Google Webmaster Tools: nethackwiki 100%, edit 63%, nethack 36%, monster 35%, navigate 33%, search 31%.

The goal is to make us relevant for "nethack", and for "nethack+wiki".

IMHO things can still be fixed at this time, and should be. Global on-site replacement is easy with [[Special:ReplaceText]]. I can edit the various other wikis myself. Most visitors won't even notice. But I would hate to annoy those helpful individuals who switched external links with another requested change. (Not very many have done so using NetHackWiki as anchor text.) I don't know how bad the mis-match between link anchor text + domain "nethackwiki" versus page title + contents "nethack wiki" is.

What are your opinions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:45, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

:1) "net+hack" we can ignore, they're not looking for us. "nethackwiki" doesn't get more searches because there hasn't been a "nethackwiki". (the old site was called "wikihack", remember?) I'm sure "nethackwiki" will get more searches in the future when people realize that's our name. IMO, using extra spaces will just annoy, maybe create problems/annoyances with some things (category rename, text renames, etc). And most of the links that link to us from reputable roguelike sites will be either "NetHackWiki" or "NetHack Wiki", so eventually google will start ranking us higher than the old site. (domain name match!) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Google has already reacted, but we're not nethack (wiki) to them. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:07, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
::Edit: current keywords + goal. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:28, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Too many forums? ==

Do we really need a "Help Desk" forum and the Talk forum? I'm thinking maybe we could get rid of the help desk one... Would require moving the articles in the other one into the Talk forum. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
: Good idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:53, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
::I'm moving them. The trick is to replace &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Help desk}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; with &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; in all articles in the Forum category. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

:: Done using [[Special:ReplaceText]]; however, [[Special:Statistics]] shows the commands just sitting in the [[Manual:job queue]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:32, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
:::The runJobs-script runs every 3 hours. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
::::It might be worth speeding that up a bit.  Every 5 minutes or so could be fine, or even every minute: it's really quite fast if there are no jobs to run.  Use the --maxjobs option to make sure it won't run too long if there are lots of jobs.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 15:34, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::OK, changed that to run every 6 minutes, and limited the number of jobs. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Let's audit advice ==

The wiki seems to contain a lot of bad advice. Most of its bad reputation is due to that. Advice should make clear its assumptions on player skill, conducts, and available in-game resources.

Let's audit all pages for junk.

I suggest starting with [[special:popularpages]], and adding &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Category:AdviceAuditedBy|YourUsername]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to pages that you have checked.

Thoughts? Better ideas? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:50, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:From a technical viewpoint, a template (e.g. &lt;nowiki&gt;{{Audited|YourUsername|~~~~~}}&lt;/nowiki&gt;) would seem better.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 01:06, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

::Good point. Especially if several people review the same page to minimize play style bias. BTW, is there a way to find all (popular) pages that are ''not'' in a given category? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:10, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

:::Not in stock MediaWiki, but I think the [[mw:Extension:DynamicPageList (Wikimedia)|DynamicPageList extension]] should let you do that.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

:While I think it's a great idea for us to have a concerted effort to audit advice found in this wiki, I don't think it's a good idea to have a "Audited by user X" sticker prominently shown on the page, since that has very little meaning to a reader unless he knows exactly who user X is and trusts his opinion. Also, anybody can change that advice, making that "audited sticker" practically worthless once the advice has changed. Of course, the reader can look at the history and see what changes have been made to the advice since it was lasted audited, but he might as well just go back and see who originally wrote the advice if he's going to bother looking that deep into the history of the article.

:IMO, a more low profile list of who audited what that is mainly visible only to the auditors would be a better way of organizing this effort, since it would reduce the chance of the readers having a false confidence in the advice given in the audited article. A simpler way of saying it: Even though an article has been audited, it's still an article on a wiki.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 21:07, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

== Privacy policy ==

The footer on all of our pages carries a link to [[NetHackWiki:Privacy policy]], but there's currently no page there.  Should we
:a) remove the link, or
:b) write a privacy policy, perhaps based on [[wikia:Privacy Policy|Wikia's]] or [[wikimedia:Privacy policy|Wikimedia's]] policies?
--[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:11, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
: It might be better to have some boilerplate. I don't see the need for a privacy policy, but I'm not a lawyer. (Still, why plaster the entire place with those footer links? Wouldn't links to key navigation pages be better, such as [[strategy]] etc?) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:21, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

== Printed Nethack Guidebook ==

What would it take to get a comprehensive printed guide to nethack based on this wiki?

http://pediapress.com/books/

A 500 page tome of all nethack sounds like just about the best book you could ever own.
--[[Special:Contributions/99.241.123.250|99.241.123.250]] 19:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

: It looks like it takes only [[mediawikiwiki:Extension:Collection]] and [http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/wiki the tool] to make a custom book. In practical terms, you'd likely want to make the auditing advice project finish first. Also, I'm not sure how much would be lost if links aren't handled gracefully. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

==Help update incoming links==
Please help me checking and updating/contacting web sites that link to the old wiki. (I've done some 250 URLs.)

{|class="prettytable"
! Progress list.  !! Url cut in pieces !! to foil address !! harvesters
|-
| https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= || 0AjD-idYyWZBQdHRVZHlWTnF || udjJCY1VUQjB1MjFzdFE&amp;auth || key=CL-Qmc4J&amp;hl=en#gid=0
|}

Tasks:
# Find out who is in charge of the site, and check they haven't been bugged before.
# Find all pages linking to the old wiki
# Email them once, politely asking them to update. Append a complete list bad links.
# ''Mark the site(s)'' in the progress list above.
# Thank them if they do update.

Tell them who you are, what the wiki has that is relevant to site's audience, where they can find that relevant content, and why it's relevant to their visitors. Use your own judgement. I usually write:
* The wiki moved here,
* Please update,
* List of affected URLs,
* The old site is a trap to surfers, we can't do anything about it,
* Really appreciate sending people to the active wiki (and Google ranking)
* [http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4#New_.22Wikia.22_aka_.22Oasis.22_skin:_Problems.2C_legal_restrictions.2C_and_tweaks Why the move]
* Who you are (I say "Tjr, admin at the wiki")

More resources: [http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/search?p=nethack.wikia.com&amp;bwm=i&amp;bwmo=d&amp;bwmf=s Yahoo site explorer] (please don't bug somebody repeatedly!), and link-building howtos [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/email-is-still-the-key-to-a-successful-link-building-campaign 1], [http://www.seomoz.org/blog/good-seo-how-to-request-links-from-picky-sites 2].

--[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:53, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== Talk page signature checker ==

I've added a script to warn users if they edit a [[Help:talk page|talk page]] or a forum without signing their edit with &lt;code&gt;--~~&lt;nowiki&gt;~~&lt;/nowiki&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.  You may need to [[wikipedia:WP:BYPASS|clear your cache]] before it starts working.  Logged-in users can turn it off in their [[Special:preferences|preferences]] (under "Gadgets") if they find it more annoying than useful.  Any feedback or bug reports are very much appreciated.

One known bug is that the script doesn't work on pages in the {{ns:Project}} namespace, such as here on the Community Portal.  The problem is that this namespace contains both discussion and content pages, and it's not trivial to tell them apart.  One possible solution would be to simply hardcode a list of pages that should be treated as talk pages.  A better one might be to query the MediaWiki API to tell if the page contains &lt;nowiki&gt;__NEWSECTIONLINK__&lt;/nowiki&gt;. --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 22:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I think I've made it work right on {{ns:Project}} pages too.  The tricky case is when editing an existing section on such a page, since then an API query is needed to load the complete text of the page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Renaming the old site back to Wikihack ==

I've thought about it again, and I think Bhaak is right. It's too confusing to have two identically branded sites. And I'm not sure if renaming it to anything else except Wikihack wouldn't get reverted. My original motivation why I introduced NetHackWiki was to gently prepare readers for the move, without really thinking through what would happen if Google kept ranking the old site first. With the move notices gone, this point is moot now.

We can't win the fight for the keyword "wikihack" anyway. (We're on position 58.) Let's win "nethackwiki". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 03:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

:Why not suggest it on the Community Portal there?  If nobody objects in a week or so, you can assume it has consensus. :)  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 04:19, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

: +1, what he said. Competing for "WikiHack" also doesn't make sense as pmostly only those already knowing it will look for it. I guess all others will google for "nethack wiki". --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 13:53, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

== Better "Welcome" logo? ==

[[file:welcome.png|thumb||Current "Welcome" logo]]
The current "Welcome" logo should be redone. It's got ugly edges, and it could match the wiki logo better... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

{{clear}}

[[File:Welcoming party.png|thumb|Proposition: new "Welcome" logo]]
:OK, I have created an image called [[:File:Welcoming party.png]], presented at right. How about that? :) &amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 23:53, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

:: I like the one with the heart better :-). Should the font be the same as the one from the nethackwiki logo? Seems to be from the bitstream vera family. --[[User:Bhaak|Bhaak]] 09:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::I like the new one better because it's easier to read. Also, I'd prefer to keep the automated welcome message short. The en.wikipedia.org occupies the entire screen - that's a bad example. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

::::Bhaak, the font probably should be the same but I think only [[User:Ilmari Karonen]] can make it look the same as he is the one who made the current logo and thus knows the correct settings. But let's not rush as no decisions have been made yet. The current version can be considered just a mock-up if you wish.
::::Tjr, we can discuss the message contents at [[Template talk:Welcome]]. 
::::&amp;mdash;[[User:ZeroOne|ZeroOne]] (&lt;small&gt;[[User talk:ZeroOne|talk]]&lt;/small&gt;&amp;nbsp;/&amp;nbsp;&lt;small&gt;[[Special:Emailuser/ZeroOne|@]]&lt;/small&gt;) 20:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
:::::The image also gobbles up space, that's why I'm mentioning it here. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:03, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

:::::There's an editable SVG version of the site logo at [[:File:Nethackwiki-logo.svg]].  The font is DejaVu Sans Mono, which I think is indeed basically identical to Bitstream Vera Sans Mono.  I didn't have any particular reason for picking it, except that it happened to be the nicest looking monospaced font I had installed.  (Also, the colors I used are a bit different from the standard CGA colors used in the site CSS; you can see them on the third line of [[User:Ilmari Karonen/Color schemes|this page]].  In particular, I made the yellow in the logo fairly dark so that the {{yellow|c}} wouldn't stand out too much, and brightened the blue to make the {{blue|e}} more visible.)

:::::As for the proposed logos, I think both the original design and ZeroOne's new version are nice.  If anyone wants to see the original heart design redone in SVG, I could certainly do that, but I think a new design might be a welcome (pun not intended) change.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 13:24, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

{{resolved top}}
== People have trouble with our captchas ==

Reading [[s:w:awa:Talk:Moved_wikis#wikis_which_need_to_maybe_reconsider_login_procedures]], it seems a reasonable fraction of all visitors have problems with the captchas. As a quick fix, I propose rewording it as "Which symbol represents a wand ''in-game''". --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 04:04, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
: I think that a new system using FancyCaptcha with a mix of English words and NetHack terms would be better. [[User:Andrew|Andrew]] 04:53, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:...or perhaps even "Which symbol represents a wand ''in NetHack''?"  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

:This is a ''NetHack''Wiki after all, so what other symbols would we be asking? Also, it's really really simple to actually look up the symbols ''on the wiki itself''... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 06:55, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

::...even on the [[Main Page]], in fact.  But I do think adding "in NetHack" to the questions would still be a good idea, not so much because there should be any ambiguity without it, but simply because it sounds better IMO.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 07:01, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Added "in NetHack" --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 08:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

: What about [http://www.bad-behavior.ioerror.us/ "bad behavior"]? It promises to reduce spam without inconveniencing users at all, by filtering on the user agent http info. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 14:46, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
::That can't combat spam created by actual humans (such as spam bids via Amazon's Mechanical Turk). Our captcha doesn't inconvenience people who know ''anything at all'' about the subject. And if you know nothing about NetHack, you should be good enough to be able to look the information up on the wiki. Also, no captcha after registering. Frankly, I don't want to remove the captcha, as I believe this has been an overblown reaction by someone who just was bitching because he didn't know the answer '''and was too lazy to look it up himself'''. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
:::Sorry. I thought of an additional line of defence.
:::I think it's an overblown reaction with a small [http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/ grain of truth] in it. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:16, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Standard format for the "Messages" section. ==

I've noticed a variety of different formats used for lists nethack messages, but haven't found standard format. Is there a standard format that I have missed? If not, is there a good place to discuss this issue?

Most places where I've seen messages being listed, they are usually in a table or "definition list" type of format, both of which are, IMO, interchangeable without losing any information or ease of use. I prefer the "definition list" way of doing it, since it appears to be a little more flexible, the messages stand out more and there is space for a bigger description of the message. 

Also would there be any benefit for using templates to list individual messages? Not only would that allow for a standard representation of messages, it could also allow for easily cross-referencing messages that appear on multiple pages or some other type of automated features with messages. IMO, it would be nice to have a since source for messages dedicated to listing all types of messages and fully explaining them. And then having other pages referring to those messages to prevent unnecessary duplication.

--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 20:54, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, a standard format for messages would be nice.  I also like the definition list format, even if it has some minor disadvantages (like the fact that colons in messages can mess it up unless encoded).  It would also be nice if we could automatically generate anchors for messages (like MediaWiki generates for section headings) so that one could link to them; I suppose a template could be made to do that.  I could look into it a bit later.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

== Wikia Links ==

There are many links that point to help pages and community central pages on Wikia such as the links in [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] and [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]]. Is this intentional or just temporary? --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 08:36, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:The latter, mostly.  We should fix them to point to corresponding pages here, or rewrite the text they're in so that they're not needed.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 08:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

:I removed the Wikia links from [[NetHackWiki:Administrators]], and edited [[NetHackWiki:Policy]] to clarify that we're no longer part of Wikia (but left the links in for now, since they still describe sensible wiki behavior rules).  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 09:39, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

::A full list of pages with Wikia interwiki links ("&lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:c:something:article]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;") other than user and user talk pages is: [[Ancient_Domains_of_Mystery]], [[Dogley_Dimension]], [[Douglas_Adams]], [[Freenode]], [[Vi]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Role_difficulty]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]].
::Ordinary link syntax [http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&amp;target=wikia.com can be found with Special:Linksearch]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
::And the string "ikia.com": [[Curses_interface]], [[Freenode]], [[Graphical_user_interface]], [[Internet_Relay_Chat]], [[Talk:Default_tileset_scaled_to_32x32]], [[Talk:Main_Page/Archive1]], [[Talk:Nethack.alt.org]], [[NetHackWiki:About]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community_Portal/Archive4]], [[NetHackWiki:Technical_issues]], [[NetHackWiki_talk:Featured_articles]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.js]], [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js]], [[Template:Gameinfo]], [[Template_talk:PD]], [[Template_talk:Wikipedia]], [[Source_talk:Qt_xpms.h]], [[Forum:Main_page_and_skin_changes]], [[Forum:Number_of_articles]]. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 20:39, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

:Most pages on that list are either corrected, extremely old, or legitimately linking to Wikia. An exception are the Forum pages - I'm not sure about the best solution. Perhaps deleting them outright? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 22:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== "Did you know" section ==

Ilmari Karonen suggested a did you know section, as Wikipedia has it. I think that's a good idea. What would it take to implement it? -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

:The only complaint I can see is that people would not want the main page to spoil them on topics they did not specifically look up. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

::I think we should be able to minimize that issue by choosing what to show and how to phrase it.  The idea isn't to plaster blatant spoilers on the main page, but more just to entice readers to look deeper if they want.  So, for example, not "''Did you know that eating a [[lizard]] [[corpse]] can cure [[stoning]]?''", but "''Did you know that there are dozens of ways to be killed by a [[cockatrice]]?''".  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 18:53, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

:Anyway, I went and started collecting possible hooks at [[NetHackWiki:Did you know?]].  Please add more.  Once we have a bunch, we can start putting them on the main page.  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 20:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

== Incorrect title on left menu ==

It seems the correct title of this wiki is NetHackWiki without a space. It is used in that form throughout the wiki, but on the left menu, the link to the main page lists the title as NetHack Wiki with a space. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 20:38, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link should be "Main page". That is more descriptive anyway. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.146.253|99.239.146.253]] 02:27, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Hmm, the mis-link was an attempt to gain more Google relevance for the keyword phrase "nethack+wiki". A lot more people search for that than for "nehackwiki". Ideally, we'd move the Main page to [[nethack_wiki]] and have some link to it on each page, using "nethack wiki" as anchor text. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]]

{{resolved top}}
== Merge "Ask an expert" with Forum? ==

I think the "[[Ask an expert]]" -page is kinda useless; maybe we should get the intro from that page and merge it with the [[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]? --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 09:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

: I agree it should be done. But I don't quite see how without flooding the forum with bumped-up 4-year-old threads. This goes especially for the 4 archive pages. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 11:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

::Stuff in the Ask an expert -page could be left as it is, with a note pointing towards the forums... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 14:58, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Done. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== Encyclopedia entries ==

The same encyclopedia entries are used on several pages. I think it would make sense to put the individual encyclopedia entries in one place, eg. under the encyclopedia template (for example, [[Template:encyclopedia/ant]], and then you could just use &lt;nowiki&gt;{{encyclopedia|ant}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; to get it. (Similar to how [[Template:Monsym]] works) --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 13:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this would be a good idea. {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}} also appears to address the same problem, but I think that in this case transclusion ( like you suggested ) is much better than redirection, especially given the way redirection was handled in {{tl|Encyclopedia-redirect}}.
:--[[User:Dptr1988|Dptr1988]] 16:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

::Agreed. A special case is [[jabberwock]] - I propose we keep the complete poem. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

== Improving the special level maps ==

Currently all the special level maps (eg. in [[Ranger quest]], [[Sokoban]]) are nothing but &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt;-blocks. I suggest we use the [[User:Paxed/ReplaceCharsBlock]]-extension to give them some color, making it easier to see the map features. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

: That's an excellent idea. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:07, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
::There's only one problem: Apparently altar (underscore) will be hidden due to css line-height and such stuff. The same problem as with the c source syntax highlighting had. But the same solution doesn't apply... --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 15:05, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
:::Problem fixed, check out [[Barbarian quest]]. Not all articles have been updated to use that yet. --[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 20:26, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

== Improving our click-through rate ==

Now that the wiki is running well, we need to focus on how fast newbies find us. Google consistently puts us on the first page for the most important query (nethack wiki). Overwhelmingly, we're positions 6-10 with a click through rate of 7%. The [http://www.seomad.com/SEOBlog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/organic-CTR.jpg market average CTR] in these positions ranges from 13% to 7%.

That means there is a lot of room for improvement, and we need to do some testing and tuning. What do you suggest to put in [[MediaWiki:Description]] and [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle-view-mainpage]]? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 00:18, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

:I have a suspicion that the main page title, while possibly helpful for our ranking, may also be hurting our click-through rate precisely because it looks like the kind of "keyword spam" that people have learned to semi-consciously ignore.  Something short and simple might be better.  Maybe just "NetHackWiki, the NetHack wiki"?  --[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] 00:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
::Done. Let's see if the CTR changes. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 01:28, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That backfired -- only 5% CTR and 18% less clicks. Any other suggestions? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 12:34, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

== Neat ideas to copy ==

* [http://deadrisingwiki.com/wiki/Dead_Rising_Wiki Dead Rising Wiki] has a chat box right on their main page. #Nethack would certainly help engage drive-by visitors.
* [http://zelda-temple.net/wiki/Main_Page Zelda Temple] has an eye-catching main page. [http://tmbw.net/wiki/Main_Page tmbw] and [http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/ Talisman Online] aren't bad either. I really should ask the maker of [http://www.thegreatestgameyouwilleverplay.com/ TheGreatestGameYouWillEverPlay].
* [http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Introduction_to_SMW Semantic mediawiki], to extract all kinds of lists of monsters, properties, NAO players, etc.
* [[meatball:TourBusMap]]. Could we perhaps get on the bus tour through interesting wikis?
* [http://www.thetransitioner.org/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=copyleft thetransitioner] explains copyleft in detail, we could just link to it.
* &lt;!--[http://clustrmaps.com/counter/maps.php?url=http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com --&gt;A clustermap of visitors&lt;!--]--&gt; to the [http://masteroforion2.blogspot.com/2005_03_01_masteroforion2_archive.html Master of Orion] forum.
Opinions, anybody? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 18:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

:Those chat boxes tend to be filled with profanities and other excrement. [[wikipedia:Sturgeon's_Law]] applies. Maybe just make the IRC channel link more prominent. (And I totally forgot about the cgi-irc gateway I was going to check out...)
:I like the tmbw main page, but if we do something like that, it would be best to create a whole new skin for our mediawiki. (And allow users to switch back to whatever skin they prefer)
:If I understand correctly, the semantic MW is a bit too involved a patch; it's closer to a MW fork, so might be more work than worth.
:No idea about meatball TourBus, I haven't heard of it (nor meatball) before.
:I'm neutral about the clustrmap.
:--[[User:Paxed|paxed]] 17:29, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

== Collapsable sidebar? ==

How about adding a collapsable sidebar to replace the menus Wikia killed? [http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki See an example].

I'd like to add the browser tabs I always keep open. Right now I have: [[Wand]], [[Weapon]], [[Potion]], [[Ring]], [[Minetown#Maps]], [[Magic_marker#Ink_and_charges]], [[Shopkeeper#Shopkeeper_names]], [[armor]] (with probabilities added), [[Tool]] (with prob. added), [http://nethack.gridbug.de/mm.html Passtune solver], [[Gem#By_color]], and a table of good polyforms stating carrying capacity. –[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 13:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
[[Category:NetHackWiki]]

== Default font used in nethack? ==
All over the wiki (most apparent in the homepage screen shot), the font is much smoother than the one found in my terminal. I was wondering if someone can please tell me the name of this font? &lt;small&gt;—The preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Matt493|Matt493]] ([[User talk:Matt493|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Matt493|contribs]]) 00:35, 9 April 2012‎.&lt;/small&gt;
:It is Courier New. --[[Special:Contributions/99.239.147.0|99.239.147.0]] 02:47, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
:It varies based on which platform you view the page from; if you're viewing from Windows, it's most likely Courier New. The font used in the logo is DejaVu Sans Mono (incidentally, my preferred font for playing NetHack with), which is a likely choice on Linux. [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

== Nethack welcome box: ==

The welcome box on the main menu that displays a welcome message and a rumor seems to be broken (or this feature has not been implemented, if that is the case I would like to propose that this be done then). The rumor from what I have seen is always the same "Acid blobs should be attacked bare-handed." Maybe we can fix it so it can use some of the hooks from the [[Project:Did you know?]] page, and some generic rumors that aren't too big on spoilers from the oracle. Not only would it bring a fresh change to recurring visitors, but it will hopefully spark the curiosity in the wiki/game from new visitors as well.
[[User:Matt493|Matt493]] 22:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
:[[Template:Random true rumor]] mentions in a comment that the acid blob rumor is the default if the javascript fails. Looking at the javascript though, I'm not seeing anything to do with the rumor. So it does look more like "never implemented" than broken. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:19, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

== Role articles ==

I know this has been said for a while, but the role articles could use some substantial work. They're not ''bad'' as they are, but they could be a lot more useful.

In particular, the Strategy section should be split into a couple sections, like Early Game, Midgame, and Late Game. Each section should consider things like weapon choice, general gameplay, and so on.

Should quest information be discussed on the role page, the quest page, or the quest nemesis page? I think we have some of each right now. The others should just link to there.

Other ideas? If we agree on what to actually do, I'd be willing to do some restructuring work.
[[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:23, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

:I think that's a good idea. (The sections might be named "Early '''g'''ame" etc. though for capitalization consistent with the other parts of the wiki.) Strategy can vary quite much between different stages of the game, obviously.
:On quest information - I think it'd make sense for nemesis-specific information to be on the nemesis page, perhaps with a short note on the quest page. Other quest information ("there are many [[vampire bat]]s in the wizard quest", etc.) should be on the main quest page. The role page might mention the quest (something similar to [[Wizard#Quest]], maybe with a note about its difficulty), using {{tl|main}} to link to the quest page for the role in case readers want to know more things about the quest (thus keeping duplication of content to a minimum while still giving the most basic information).
:The strategy sections should probably mention when to do the quest, too, though details about ''how'' to do it are probably best placed on the quest page (or nemesis page in the case of nemesis strategy). This can then be linked to.
:In some cases, the Strategy sections might need to mention different strategies; I don't think we should only specify one of them, especially in cases where all of them are rather common (I'm thinking mostly of [[wizard]]s here &amp;ndash; some people prefer using metal armor early and throwing [[dagger]]s while others try not to use metal armor at all, instead preferring high [[spellcasting]] success rates for all of the game).
:A section about how the respective role is "different" from other roles might also be nice &amp;ndash; [[wizard]]s, for example, are different in that they can use [[magic marker]]s more easily (and other things). --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] ([[User talk:Bcode|talk]]) 11:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm trying it out on [[Valkyrie]]. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 04:19, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to start revamping role articles to include better information on how the roles work in SLASH'EM, which is often significantly different than Vanilla. I've tried it out on [[Rogue#SLASH'EM]], any feedback would be appreciated. --[[User:Prometheus77|Prometheus77]] ([[User talk:Prometheus77|talk]]) 15:23, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Thank you, that's clearly a gap you're filling. (Sadly, I'm totally unqualified wrt slashem, so I can't say anything substantial about the content.) --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr|talk]]) 18:10, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

:Hi, new guy here. Been looking at the wiki for quite some time, decided to help. About the role articles, can we have a set formatting throughout all the articles? I propose the one on Arcs. --[[User:ASnail|ASnail]] ([[User_talk:ASnail|talk]] 7:30, a7/10/2013 (UTC) +0

== Password issues ==

I used to be a member of the old wiki as Kahran042. So I tried to log in, but it wouldn't let me. I tried getting a new password on Wikia, but that didn't help. Can someone pleas help me? --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 05:35, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Did you try the reset password option here? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 16:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but it claimed that I didn't have an e-mail address recorded. --[[Special:Contributions/24.61.180.68|24.61.180.68]] 01:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

In that case, is there a reason you can't just create a new account? [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 01:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I just did, but would I be allowed to transfer the stuff on my old user page to a new user page? --[[User:Kahran042 R|Kahran042 R]] ([[User talk:Kahran042 R|talk]]) 07:30, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

:Sure, if you're the same person (and there's no reason to assume you're not), just [[Special:MovePage/User:Kahran042|move]] your old user page to your new one. This will keep the history intact and create a redirect from your old user page to your new one. You might want to edit your new user page after that to clarify this.
:Alternatively, from [[Template:News]]: "30th March 2012 - PSA: Wiki login problems? Cannot reset your password? EMail paxed at alt dot org"
:(used to be on the [[Main Page]], but as new items were added, it moved "below the fold".) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 08:05, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

== Putting alternate tilesets in articles ==

Conversation moved to [[Template_talk:Alternate_tilesets]]

== Handling monster color changes in UnNetHack ==

Version 5.0 of UnNetHack changes color of multiple monsters ([https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/unnethack/changeset/1455 r1455]). My suggested method of handling this in monsym templates is to it like it is done with Cthulhu (different symbols in UnNetHack and SLASH'EM)
* Create templates for variants ([[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (UnNetHack)]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer (vanilla)]])
* replace [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Monsym/master_mind_flayer|Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] by proper one (or maybe leave multivariant one)
* modify [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer]] to look like [[Template:Monsym/Cthulhu]] (displays both possibilities)

Is there anybody with a better method of handling this change? Second question - when this mass edit should be done? UnNetHack 5.0 will be used during Junethack and released after tournament [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think something like [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/UnNetHack/5.0]] and [[Template:Monsym/master mind flayer/NetHack/3.4.3]] would be even better, actually. That'd involve some work, but it should be not too difficult to automate.
:[[Template:Monsym]] would take a variant parameter and use that variant; it'd also take a version number. I'm not completely sure how to avoid having a duplicated page for ''every'' version released, but there's probably some way I could think of.
:Something like [[mw:Extension:Variables]] would help avoid specifying all the parameters everytime [[Template:Monsym]] is used on a page. Perhaps it could be combined with a modification of the templates suggested on [[NetHackWiki:Next version]], too: have a template that marks individual sections as specific to e.g. UnNetHack 5.0 or vanilla 3.4.3, then have that automatically set the variable. (I've tested something remotely similar to that on a local test installation of MediaWiki once, FWIW.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 15:52, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
::[[Template:Monsymlink]] already takes parameters [[User:Bulwersator|Bulwersator]] ([[User talk:Bulwersator|talk]]) 15:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
:::It doesn't use them the way I'd like, though; see my description above. It also doesn't take a version parameter and asking for e.g. the UnNetHack symbol for a giant ant will not work (as that never changed from vanilla; making this work without duplication or at least redirects will probably involve some work). (I know rather well that [[Template:Monsymlink]] takes a variant parameter; I added it. It's more of a simple hack currently, though, just appending the variant name in parentheses.) —[[User:bcode|bcode]]&amp;nbsp;&lt;sup&gt;[[User talk:bcode|talk]]&amp;nbsp;|&amp;nbsp;[[Special:EmailUser/Bcode|mail]]&lt;/sup&gt; 16:06, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

==Template:YouTubePlayer==
Can we have the YouTubePlayer template?
Also, since this website is not part of wikia, do we have a .CSS page? -[[User:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|WaveDivisionMultiplexer]] ([[User talk:WaveDivisionMultiplexer|talk]]) 05:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

==The Front Page - Can we have the Table of Content section back?==
There used to be a front page that had a sort of "top" TOC with links to Roles/Items/In-Depth/Monsters, etc.  What happened to that?

Here is what I mean:  http://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&amp;oldid=67458

As it is, the front page isn't very useful other than as a welcome page - you have to search for everything which is rather painful.
--[[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 04:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

::I added it back :-) [[User:Raindog308|Raindog308]] ([[User talk:Raindog308|talk]]) 02:52, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

== Medica Ossium ==

Hey.

I didn't find a way to send a message to someone who could help, so I'm gonna write here. Sorry for that.

I'm here just to tell you I find a creature who wasn't cataloged in this website. I tried to create a new page for it myself, but I've failed.

The creature is named "medica ossium" (same name of the healer's rank).

"Status of the medica ossium (neutral): Level 14    HP 65(65)   AC 10."
 
I took a couple of screenshots of it.
[http://postimg.org/image/zch24ma7h/]
[http://postimg.org/image/xmauhu9f5/]

PS: Feel free to send me to hell for doing this. Bye :D
:It's a [[player monster]] (or most likely, a [[doppelganger]] pretending to be one). [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523|talk]]) 19:48, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

== New page please: Command line arguments ==

Uh-oh! The Style Guide says not to create a missing page and just stick {-{stub}-} in it. I'm real busy this week ... maybe someone else has time to put the command line arguments supported by the NetHack binary into Wiki-ese? [[User:Netzhack|Netzhack]] ([[User talk:Netzhack|talk]]) 08:23, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

== Tiles ==

I've noticed that a lot of people have been able to upload tiles, but they're only available in the source code as the little "color by letter" 16x16 squares. How would I go about getting the tiles for the defunct quest monsters for the SLASH'EM racial quests onto the wiki? --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042|talk]]) 13:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

== I want to play on a tournament or server that uses tiles but I can't find one. help? ==

n

== This page may need to be updated for NetHack 3.6.0 ==

on a page which has one of these 3.6 banners how do i show that i have checked one of the links to the source?

i cant remove the 3.6 banner because i havent checked them all but i'd like to indicate to others that they dont have to check this particular link.

any ideas?

[[User:Fenris|Fenris]] ([[User talk:Fenris|talk]]) 01:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

:Which page? You could always leave a note on the discussion page for starters. [[User:MyNameWasTaken|MyNameWasTaken]] ([[User talk:MyNameWasTaken|talk]]) 22:22, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

::Fenris, thanks for getting involved in the wiki!
::You can update in-text 3.4.3 source code references by opening up the [[NetHack 3.4.3 source code]] to the line number being referenced, finding the corresponding line in the [[NetHack 3.6.0 source code]], opening the page you are working on for editing, and changing the number in the Refsrc template call to the new line number.  The reorganization of the source code has caused some extreme shifts in line numbers, so take a good look at the line's context in the 3.4.3 source before you're sure of the new location.  Sometimes the same subheadings are used in both sources, so looking for the nearest subheading in the 3.4.3 source might help you orient yourself in the 3.6.0 source.  
::To make it clear that the reference is now to version 3.6.0, change the Refsrc template call to match the new "versioned" format, which you can find at [[Template:Refsrc]].  Usually this just means including the name of the folder of the file being referenced (src/allmain.c), and adding the name of the version (version=NetHack 3.6.0).  "Category:Pages with unversioned Refsrc templates" has a list of pages that need to be changed to the new syntax, but be aware that some of these are for pages related to [[patch]]es and [[variant]]s that reference a source code other than 3.6.0.
::I haven't figured out the correct new syntax for [[Template:Reffunc]], but if I ever do, I plan to post instructions on how to update it.--[[User:Cherokee Jack|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack|talk]]) 13:58, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

== Macro implementation: nh 3.6, Windows 10 ==

I'm curious if (and how) there are successful recent implementations of the AutoHotKey macro method described at the Wiki "Macro" page.

In 3.6.0, running under Windows 10, I created the runmeonce and trigger ahk scripts, etc, but there is no NHLauncher.exe executable with which to start nethack in the nh distribution, and within the nethack UI (I tried both the "traditional" and windows graphical versions) CTRL+M does not launch the macro creator interface window.

Any help would be appreciated

--[[User:GetOffThisPlanet|GetOffThisPlanet]] ([[User talk:GetOffThisPlanet|talk]]) 15:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

== Link to GitHub with [[Template:Refsrc]]? ==

I'd like to propose to amend [[Template:Refsrc]] to point to GitHub for vanilla NetHack source code links, and possibly some variants as well. This will get around the issue of line number anchors not working, and would work for NetHack 3.6.2 until the source is uploaded to the wiki.

[[User:Wooble]] has independently made the same suggestion on [[IRC]] just now.

[[Template:Reffunc]] may not work with this, ''unless'' we write a list mapping function names to source lines and do a similar thing from there. - [[User:Andrio Celos|Andrio Celos]] ([[User talk:Andrio Celos|talk]]) 11:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
:How hard (comparatively) would it be to fix the line number anchors? I know they used to work and I don't see that anything has changed, so I was surprised to see them broken all of a sudden. 
:The monst template directly links to the source files, but I've been meaning to re-generate them all anyway, since 95% of the templates use incorrect exp values. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 22:14, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

== [[Artifact weapon]] ==

I'd appreciate more eyes on this and the talk page. In my view the recent additions are an incredible pile of verbose nonsense. [[User:Pinkbeast|Pinkbeast]] ([[User talk:Pinkbeast|talk]]) 21:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

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|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd' ==

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e' ==

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f' ==

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}</text>
      <sha1>00h26csdnfc1tliennateddvac1r7t4</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171380</id>
      <parentid>171355</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-21T06:48:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Umbire the Phantom</username>
        <id>4001279</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>archiving so there's less ancient resolved issues taking up space</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="46887">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c' ==

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd' ==

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e' ==

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

== Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f' ==

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}</text>
      <sha1>ksbc6oum67ppcfe925v073ssj23vnu2</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171382</id>
      <parentid>171380</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-21T06:53:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Umbire the Phantom</username>
        <id>4001279</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>group interwiki stuff, link archive page</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="47160">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}</text>
      <sha1>czj0bxtvz4w959ix95rblf55gennq47</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171470</id>
      <parentid>171382</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-21T13:43:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="50965">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}</text>
      <sha1>i6h2bs2mpjc409d8ojkjivj3wd1j7vy</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171517</id>
      <parentid>171470</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-22T00:12:52Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h' */ Round 8.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="53752">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}</text>
      <sha1>ex6gtduzgfed6u430sjpzh4mwo3zjux</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171582</id>
      <parentid>171517</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-22T14:58:40Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i' */ Round 9.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="56700">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}</text>
      <sha1>fw20ssic6xr7l7huk5tumwpbtz2ry5p</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171605</id>
      <parentid>171582</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-22T17:24:25Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="58285">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.</text>
      <sha1>ojw2gd6olkb4fd2l8hys2fb0agwbaa9</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171620</id>
      <parentid>171605</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-22T19:19:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="59803">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.</text>
      <sha1>bwamzl4fctsw1x7kzl6gvyjwhj4svo6</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171674</id>
      <parentid>171620</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-23T04:10:37Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Cathartes</username>
        <id>4001483</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="61133">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>pzx8o8crzy6lo6q3mz0z9rml6s7x88k</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171676</id>
      <parentid>171674</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-23T04:12:38Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Umbire the Phantom</username>
        <id>4001279</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter */ +1</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="61365">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>57j6gnbuxyxpejoemg91cvyxcgg8mju</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171680</id>
      <parentid>171676</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-23T04:27:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Empty edit summary abuse filter: I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="61520">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>l93evmsqsritn8kh3l46z0u69zffxyq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171683</id>
      <parentid>171680</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-23T06:57:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ion frigate</username>
        <id>375</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>i'd say invert the logic there</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="62072">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>gj0z12e9d5w8ftf37yi3bgk1cwr06m1</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171688</id>
      <parentid>171683</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-23T10:18:00Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Umbire the Phantom</username>
        <id>4001279</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>finally...</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="64695">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>sgcfhwdfqpycg91i9uz0et3v3oz04us</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171690</id>
      <parentid>171688</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-23T11:14:53Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Regarding source references and hosting source code */ what is going on with mixed syntax highlighting?</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="66318">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>b9ochvw4l5k8u19v83gghshfbqass5x</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171691</id>
      <parentid>171690</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-23T11:17:17Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Umbire the Phantom</username>
        <id>4001279</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k' */ +1</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="66446">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>r6u2erbwxsnvlosngy6nz2usyciydv1</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171692</id>
      <parentid>171691</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-23T11:56:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Regarding source references and hosting source code */ syntax coloring worked on october 3 2018 and did not work on april 7 2019</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="67014">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>968msil53gj0lhetd1pg59h3twjs01w</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171693</id>
      <parentid>171692</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-23T12:03:01Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k' */ verified.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="67119">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>kn5rih8v5dw6bjl5zfzessflaojap7i</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171699</id>
      <parentid>171693</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-23T15:04:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Interwiki entry requests */ Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="70680">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ls2ultbjig65sm52tyl0rzi5dzux9d6</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171722</id>
      <parentid>171699</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-23T19:55:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="75722">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>5ribnftat8k4uqkvyiiob4ktosdftiy</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171723</id>
      <parentid>171722</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-23T19:55:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>'m': most -&gt; many. 'm' has a lot of keeps.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="75722">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>sjcxu0q7r4ss3ndhru3cj5plpuie3xj</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171761</id>
      <parentid>171723</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-23T21:28:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as Dungeon.h , attrib.c, and Arch.des */ new section</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="77474">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==

These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[atrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>tmxzxb2tjtmcrdvbs4wm0m47nvrr3ug</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171762</id>
      <parentid>171761</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-23T21:41:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>/* Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as Dungeon.h , attrib.c, and Arch.des */ typo: atrib.c -&gt; attrib.c</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="77475">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==

These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>5qw4xjm4m8b4cwps5vkkepl70joycuq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171764</id>
      <parentid>171762</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-23T23:41:55Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="79567">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===

Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==

These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>23m12thbb40xmu9pacz9ko4gxru0w9o</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171766</id>
      <parentid>171764</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-24T00:08:11Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Cathartes</username>
        <id>4001483</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter */ only on main/template namespaces and warning sounds good to me</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="79896">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===

Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==

These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ckjsj1nkead7wn0l231nu1g87fvz775</sha1>
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    <revision>
      <id>171768</id>
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      <comment>Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'</comment>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="82136">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===

Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==

These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>khvlbaqbv6piia9ah6yzvrdbeepw4mq</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171782</id>
      <parentid>171768</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-24T05:52:43Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="87489">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===

Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==

These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>nvd5b3xh8tjdffw1iu082456enmoql4</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171785</id>
      <parentid>171782</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-24T06:05:53Z</timestamp>
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        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="88768">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===

Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

== Safe to delete (q) ==

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

== Keep this for now (q) ==

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==

These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>izmzzex22m9agcam0svkq6qowof3gnb</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171822</id>
      <parentid>171785</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-24T10:13:23Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ion frigate</username>
        <id>375</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="89117">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===

Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

== Safe to delete (q) ==

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

== Keep this for now (q) ==

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==

These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>7lsz4hh2vzeadn61507pqirm3b3loyu</sha1>
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        <id>4001279</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="89554">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===

Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

== Safe to delete (q) ==

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

== Keep this for now (q) ==

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==

These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>o8ux695ttbtibcqh1qtlfhu2a2rz75w</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171827</id>
      <parentid>171823</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-24T10:51:27Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Ion frigate</username>
        <id>375</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>my own thoughts: get rid of them for source refs, but make (short) articles on the source files themselves</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="90426">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===

Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

== Safe to delete (q) ==

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

== Keep this for now (q) ==

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==

These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ef394xt0vb2717c0v47yrdmzh0soi87</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171831</id>
      <parentid>171827</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-24T11:58:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Umbire the Phantom</username>
        <id>4001279</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as Dungeon.h , attrib.c, and Arch.des */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="90779">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===

Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

== Safe to delete (q) ==

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

== Keep this for now (q) ==

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==

These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::I can undelete pages accordingly if need be, but this seems like a fine enough idea - I don't want it to be ''too'' short, though, just meaty enough that it can serve as a source-diving aid of sorts without getting too into the weeds. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>aykhue6v40zopbdvtylb2szjqmwfop3</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171833</id>
      <parentid>171831</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-24T12:10:53Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>src/mon.c would be like a disambiguation file ... sounds like a good idea</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="91030">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===

Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

== Safe to delete (q) ==

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

== Keep this for now (q) ==

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==

These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

:: Huh. This sounds like a good idea. They would be little disambiguation articles, with links at the bottom for 3.4.3, 3.6.7, 3.7-dev, and even for variant source code. They wouldn't have line numbers or functions. And if someone writes &lt;nowiki&gt;[[src/mon.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; in a talk page, then the page won't get stale when a new version comes out, people who read source code can figure out that a comment from 2013 was talking about to the 3.4.3 version, especially if there is a link somewhere to a quickie list of release dates. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ppki4jyvc70etm19fbgrqcdi20mp65q</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171836</id>
      <parentid>171833</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-24T12:27:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Umbire the Phantom</username>
        <id>4001279</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Interwiki entry requests */ context from archive</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="91476">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience.

To give further context: below is a series of interwiki links [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5#Wikia Links|that were slated to be dealt with]] after the move to MediaWiki, but it fell to the wayside for more than a decade before another user decided to draw attention to the matter. Below is a series of lists meant to expedite the process and finish what was meant to be done back in 2011.

--[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC) [Original Message: 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===

Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

== Safe to delete (q) ==

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

== Keep this for now (q) ==

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==

These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

:: Huh. This sounds like a good idea. They would be little disambiguation articles, with links at the bottom for 3.4.3, 3.6.7, 3.7-dev, and even for variant source code. They wouldn't have line numbers or functions. And if someone writes &lt;nowiki&gt;[[src/mon.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; in a talk page, then the page won't get stale when a new version comes out, people who read source code can figure out that a comment from 2013 was talking about to the 3.4.3 version, especially if there is a link somewhere to a quickie list of release dates. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>6m50xosckpxduseknjqqloijti848re</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171844</id>
      <parentid>171836</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-24T12:51:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Umbire the Phantom</username>
        <id>4001279</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>header levels + resolved</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="91641">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience.

To give further context: below is a series of interwiki links [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5#Wikia Links|that were slated to be dealt with]] after the move to MediaWiki, but it fell to the wayside for more than a decade before another user decided to draw attention to the matter. Below is a series of lists meant to expedite the process and finish what was meant to be done back in 2011.

--[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC) [Original Message: 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===

Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==

These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

:: Huh. This sounds like a good idea. They would be little disambiguation articles, with links at the bottom for 3.4.3, 3.6.7, 3.7-dev, and even for variant source code. They wouldn't have line numbers or functions. And if someone writes &lt;nowiki&gt;[[src/mon.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; in a talk page, then the page won't get stale when a new version comes out, people who read source code can figure out that a comment from 2013 was talking about to the 3.4.3 version, especially if there is a link somewhere to a quickie list of release dates. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>rmz9lmln4e0v7acwo6yzybk7nxt9qfy</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171845</id>
      <parentid>171844</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-24T12:55:51Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q' */ Verified. Looks good to me.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="91745">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience.

To give further context: below is a series of interwiki links [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5#Wikia Links|that were slated to be dealt with]] after the move to MediaWiki, but it fell to the wayside for more than a decade before another user decided to draw attention to the matter. Below is a series of lists meant to expedite the process and finish what was meant to be done back in 2011.

--[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC) [Original Message: 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===

Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==

These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

:: Huh. This sounds like a good idea. They would be little disambiguation articles, with links at the bottom for 3.4.3, 3.6.7, 3.7-dev, and even for variant source code. They wouldn't have line numbers or functions. And if someone writes &lt;nowiki&gt;[[src/mon.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; in a talk page, then the page won't get stale when a new version comes out, people who read source code can figure out that a comment from 2013 was talking about to the 3.4.3 version, especially if there is a link somewhere to a quickie list of release dates. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>r11nwtzuhjvkx21vlrr8fr57jw30p9k</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171846</id>
      <parentid>171845</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-24T12:56:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>oops, messed up the markup, then forgot to preview.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="91746">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience.

To give further context: below is a series of interwiki links [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5#Wikia Links|that were slated to be dealt with]] after the move to MediaWiki, but it fell to the wayside for more than a decade before another user decided to draw attention to the matter. Below is a series of lists meant to expedite the process and finish what was meant to be done back in 2011.

--[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC) [Original Message: 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===

Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

{{resolved bottom}}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==

These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

:: Huh. This sounds like a good idea. They would be little disambiguation articles, with links at the bottom for 3.4.3, 3.6.7, 3.7-dev, and even for variant source code. They wouldn't have line numbers or functions. And if someone writes &lt;nowiki&gt;[[src/mon.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; in a talk page, then the page won't get stale when a new version comes out, people who read source code can figure out that a comment from 2013 was talking about to the 3.4.3 version, especially if there is a link somewhere to a quickie list of release dates. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>n8m6khbnbsj588hg0lwftax4q5mviz5</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171847</id>
      <parentid>171846</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-24T13:01:05Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Umbire the Phantom</username>
        <id>4001279</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>mark resolved sections</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="91819">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience.

To give further context: below is a series of interwiki links [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5#Wikia Links|that were slated to be dealt with]] after the move to MediaWiki, but it fell to the wayside for more than a decade before another user decided to draw attention to the matter. Below is a series of lists meant to expedite the process and finish what was meant to be done back in 2011.

--[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC) [Original Message: 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===

Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

{{resolved bottom}}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==

These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

:: Huh. This sounds like a good idea. They would be little disambiguation articles, with links at the bottom for 3.4.3, 3.6.7, 3.7-dev, and even for variant source code. They wouldn't have line numbers or functions. And if someone writes &lt;nowiki&gt;[[src/mon.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; in a talk page, then the page won't get stale when a new version comes out, people who read source code can figure out that a comment from 2013 was talking about to the 3.4.3 version, especially if there is a link somewhere to a quickie list of release dates. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>9wn1zqzplbd4e2cehlrutu7j5z64l97</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171849</id>
      <parentid>171847</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-24T13:41:46Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Umbire the Phantom</username>
        <id>4001279</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>restore lost comment</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="92172">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience.

To give further context: below is a series of interwiki links [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5#Wikia Links|that were slated to be dealt with]] after the move to MediaWiki, but it fell to the wayside for more than a decade before another user decided to draw attention to the matter. Below is a series of lists meant to expedite the process and finish what was meant to be done back in 2011.

--[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC) [Original Message: 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===

Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

{{resolved bottom}}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==

These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::I can undelete pages accordingly if need be, but this seems like a fine enough idea - I don't want it to be ''too'' short, though, just meaty enough that it can serve as a source-diving aid of sorts without getting too into the weeds. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

:: Huh. This sounds like a good idea. They would be little disambiguation articles, with links at the bottom for 3.4.3, 3.6.7, 3.7-dev, and even for variant source code. They wouldn't have line numbers or functions. And if someone writes &lt;nowiki&gt;[[src/mon.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; in a talk page, then the page won't get stale when a new version comes out, people who read source code can figure out that a comment from 2013 was talking about to the 3.4.3 version, especially if there is a link somewhere to a quickie list of release dates. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>bzcqoj2r2630bqf55zneyepizsymv1n</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171850</id>
      <parentid>171849</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-24T13:58:38Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Umbire the Phantom</username>
        <id>4001279</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n' */ +1</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="92336">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience.

To give further context: below is a series of interwiki links [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5#Wikia Links|that were slated to be dealt with]] after the move to MediaWiki, but it fell to the wayside for more than a decade before another user decided to draw attention to the matter. Below is a series of lists meant to expedite the process and finish what was meant to be done back in 2011.

--[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC) [Original Message: 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===
Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 13:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

{{resolved bottom}}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==

These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::I can undelete pages accordingly if need be, but this seems like a fine enough idea - I don't want it to be ''too'' short, though, just meaty enough that it can serve as a source-diving aid of sorts without getting too into the weeds. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

:: Huh. This sounds like a good idea. They would be little disambiguation articles, with links at the bottom for 3.4.3, 3.6.7, 3.7-dev, and even for variant source code. They wouldn't have line numbers or functions. And if someone writes &lt;nowiki&gt;[[src/mon.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; in a talk page, then the page won't get stale when a new version comes out, people who read source code can figure out that a comment from 2013 was talking about to the 3.4.3 version, especially if there is a link somewhere to a quickie list of release dates. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>50d79ptp10qfwc49zmy2unnove9qr1w</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171851</id>
      <parentid>171850</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-24T14:05:38Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Umbire the Phantom</username>
        <id>4001279</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j' */ +1</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="92374">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience.

To give further context: below is a series of interwiki links [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5#Wikia Links|that were slated to be dealt with]] after the move to MediaWiki, but it fell to the wayside for more than a decade before another user decided to draw attention to the matter. Below is a series of lists meant to expedite the process and finish what was meant to be done back in 2011.

--[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC) [Original Message: 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.
{{resolved bottom}}

{{resolved top}}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===
Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 13:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

{{resolved bottom}}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==

These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::I can undelete pages accordingly if need be, but this seems like a fine enough idea - I don't want it to be ''too'' short, though, just meaty enough that it can serve as a source-diving aid of sorts without getting too into the weeds. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

:: Huh. This sounds like a good idea. They would be little disambiguation articles, with links at the bottom for 3.4.3, 3.6.7, 3.7-dev, and even for variant source code. They wouldn't have line numbers or functions. And if someone writes &lt;nowiki&gt;[[src/mon.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; in a talk page, then the page won't get stale when a new version comes out, people who read source code can figure out that a comment from 2013 was talking about to the 3.4.3 version, especially if there is a link somewhere to a quickie list of release dates. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>ntixzdymeozlevfrprqkgizbm3rvd2c</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171852</id>
      <parentid>171851</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-24T14:05:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Umbire the Phantom</username>
        <id>4001279</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>bit too fast on that</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="92519">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience.

To give further context: below is a series of interwiki links [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5#Wikia Links|that were slated to be dealt with]] after the move to MediaWiki, but it fell to the wayside for more than a decade before another user decided to draw attention to the matter. Below is a series of lists meant to expedite the process and finish what was meant to be done back in 2011.

--[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC) [Original Message: 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:05, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

{{resolved top}}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===
Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 13:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

{{resolved bottom}}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==

These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::I can undelete pages accordingly if need be, but this seems like a fine enough idea - I don't want it to be ''too'' short, though, just meaty enough that it can serve as a source-diving aid of sorts without getting too into the weeds. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

:: Huh. This sounds like a good idea. They would be little disambiguation articles, with links at the bottom for 3.4.3, 3.6.7, 3.7-dev, and even for variant source code. They wouldn't have line numbers or functions. And if someone writes &lt;nowiki&gt;[[src/mon.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; in a talk page, then the page won't get stale when a new version comes out, people who read source code can figure out that a comment from 2013 was talking about to the 3.4.3 version, especially if there is a link somewhere to a quickie list of release dates. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
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&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience.

To give further context: below is a series of interwiki links [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5#Wikia Links|that were slated to be dealt with]] after the move to MediaWiki, but it fell to the wayside for more than a decade before another user decided to draw attention to the matter. Below is a series of lists meant to expedite the process and finish what was meant to be done back in 2011.

--[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC) [Original Message: 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:05, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

{{resolved top}}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===
Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 13:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

{{resolved bottom}}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==

These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::I can undelete pages accordingly if need be, but this seems like a fine enough idea - I don't want it to be ''too'' short, though, just meaty enough that it can serve as a source-diving aid of sorts without getting too into the weeds. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

:: Huh. This sounds like a good idea. They would be little disambiguation articles, with links at the bottom for 3.4.3, 3.6.7, 3.7-dev, and even for variant source code. They wouldn't have line numbers or functions. And if someone writes &lt;nowiki&gt;[[src/mon.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; in a talk page, then the page won't get stale when a new version comes out, people who read source code can figure out that a comment from 2013 was talking about to the 3.4.3 version, especially if there is a link somewhere to a quickie list of release dates. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>qd4hy8bg323vqe9l10spotcddv2p2j0</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171855</id>
      <parentid>171854</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-24T14:14:10Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n' */ verified.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="92606">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience.

To give further context: below is a series of interwiki links [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5#Wikia Links|that were slated to be dealt with]] after the move to MediaWiki, but it fell to the wayside for more than a decade before another user decided to draw attention to the matter. Below is a series of lists meant to expedite the process and finish what was meant to be done back in 2011.

--[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC) [Original Message: 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:05, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

{{resolved top}}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===
Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 13:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

{{resolved bottom}}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==

These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::I can undelete pages accordingly if need be, but this seems like a fine enough idea - I don't want it to be ''too'' short, though, just meaty enough that it can serve as a source-diving aid of sorts without getting too into the weeds. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

:: Huh. This sounds like a good idea. They would be little disambiguation articles, with links at the bottom for 3.4.3, 3.6.7, 3.7-dev, and even for variant source code. They wouldn't have line numbers or functions. And if someone writes &lt;nowiki&gt;[[src/mon.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; in a talk page, then the page won't get stale when a new version comes out, people who read source code can figure out that a comment from 2013 was talking about to the 3.4.3 version, especially if there is a link somewhere to a quickie list of release dates. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>c6qhpl111hket07hqoi3dg2433iyvte</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171856</id>
      <parentid>171855</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-24T14:19:15Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j' */ verified</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="92710">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience.

To give further context: below is a series of interwiki links [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5#Wikia Links|that were slated to be dealt with]] after the move to MediaWiki, but it fell to the wayside for more than a decade before another user decided to draw attention to the matter. Below is a series of lists meant to expedite the process and finish what was meant to be done back in 2011.

--[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC) [Original Message: 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:05, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:18, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

{{resolved top}}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===
Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 13:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

{{resolved bottom}}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==

These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::I can undelete pages accordingly if need be, but this seems like a fine enough idea - I don't want it to be ''too'' short, though, just meaty enough that it can serve as a source-diving aid of sorts without getting too into the weeds. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

:: Huh. This sounds like a good idea. They would be little disambiguation articles, with links at the bottom for 3.4.3, 3.6.7, 3.7-dev, and even for variant source code. They wouldn't have line numbers or functions. And if someone writes &lt;nowiki&gt;[[src/mon.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; in a talk page, then the page won't get stale when a new version comes out, people who read source code can figure out that a comment from 2013 was talking about to the 3.4.3 version, especially if there is a link somewhere to a quickie list of release dates. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
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&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience.

To give further context: below is a series of interwiki links [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5#Wikia Links|that were slated to be dealt with]] after the move to MediaWiki, but it fell to the wayside for more than a decade before another user decided to draw attention to the matter. Below is a series of lists meant to expedite the process and finish what was meant to be done back in 2011.

--[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC) [Original Message: 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:05, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:18, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

{{resolved top}}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===
Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 13:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'r'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'r', except for these 4:
* religion, religion-wiki, reviews, roguebasin

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[religion:" or "religion:" so I have to look at hits for "religion" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| radioscanning || http://radioscanning.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| raec || http://www.raec.clacso.edu.ar:8080/raec/Members/raecpedia/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| realestate || http://realestate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reallifesoap || http://rls.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| republiconline || http://RepublicOnline.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| revo || http://purl.org/NET/voko/revo/art/$1.html || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| rfc || https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| roadcycling || http://RoadCycling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| robotbattle || http://RobotBattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rollercoastertycoon || http://rct.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| romhack || http://romhack.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| royalisme || http://Royalisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rpg || http://rpg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ru.townn-titles || http://ru.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| runescape || http://RuneScape.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| russianworld || http://russianworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| religion || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| religion-wiki || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reviews || http://reviews.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| roguebasin || https://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=$1 || unsearchable, 10+ known uses || operational || we have 10+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[roguebasin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==

These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::I can undelete pages accordingly if need be, but this seems like a fine enough idea - I don't want it to be ''too'' short, though, just meaty enough that it can serve as a source-diving aid of sorts without getting too into the weeds. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

:: Huh. This sounds like a good idea. They would be little disambiguation articles, with links at the bottom for 3.4.3, 3.6.7, 3.7-dev, and even for variant source code. They wouldn't have line numbers or functions. And if someone writes &lt;nowiki&gt;[[src/mon.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; in a talk page, then the page won't get stale when a new version comes out, people who read source code can figure out that a comment from 2013 was talking about to the 3.4.3 version, especially if there is a link somewhere to a quickie list of release dates. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>r673oq5zxjbnphivzlh55jv8548vft2</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171868</id>
      <parentid>171858</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-25T01:43:30Z</timestamp>
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        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
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      <comment>Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 's'</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="102412">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience.

To give further context: below is a series of interwiki links [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5#Wikia Links|that were slated to be dealt with]] after the move to MediaWiki, but it fell to the wayside for more than a decade before another user decided to draw attention to the matter. Below is a series of lists meant to expedite the process and finish what was meant to be done back in 2011.

--[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC) [Original Message: 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:05, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:18, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

{{resolved top}}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===
Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 13:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'r'===

Round 18. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'r', except for these 4:
* religion, religion-wiki, reviews, roguebasin

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[religion:" or "religion:" so I have to look at hits for "religion" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| radioscanning || http://radioscanning.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| raec || http://www.raec.clacso.edu.ar:8080/raec/Members/raecpedia/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| realestate || http://realestate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reallifesoap || http://rls.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| republiconline || http://RepublicOnline.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| revo || http://purl.org/NET/voko/revo/art/$1.html || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| rfc || https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| roadcycling || http://RoadCycling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| robotbattle || http://RobotBattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rollercoastertycoon || http://rct.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| romhack || http://romhack.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| royalisme || http://Royalisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rpg || http://rpg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ru.townn-titles || http://ru.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| runescape || http://RuneScape.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| russianworld || http://russianworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| religion || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| religion-wiki || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reviews || http://reviews.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| roguebasin || https://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=$1 || unsearchable, 10+ known uses || operational || we have 10+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[roguebasin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 's'===

Round 19. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 's', except for these 6:
* s, search, seeds, software, startup, students

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[search:" or "search:" so I have to look at hits for "search" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"s" has at least one use.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s23wiki || http://is-root.de/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Buy this domain. || -
|-
| sageswiki || http://sages.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sagewiki || http://sage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| salmesykkel || http://salmesykkel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| samplitude || http://Samplitude.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sandiego || http://sandiego.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sanfranciscowiki || http://sanfrancisco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sca21 || http://sca21.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| schoolcomputing || http://SchoolComputing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| schools || http://schools.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scoop	|| http://scoop.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scouting || http://scouting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| scoutpedia || http://www.scoutpedia.info/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| scratchpad || http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| scriptingwiki || http://scripting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| seapig || http://www.seapig.org/$1 || 0 || Save Money on Shared or Dedicated Hosting || -
|-
| seattlewiki || http://seattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| seattlewireless || http://seattlewireless.net/?$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| seldonshand || http://seldonhand.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| semweb || http://semweb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| senseislibrary || http://senseis.xmp.net/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgcommand || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgwireless || http://sgwireless.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| shakti || http://cgi.algonet.se/htbin/cgiwrap/pgd/ShaktiWiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| shoppingwiki || http://shopping.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| simpsons || http://simpsons.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| sims || http://sims.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sitelibrary || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| skypeme || skype:$1?chat || 0 || (url not tested) || -
|-
| slashdot || http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| slektami || http://slektami.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| smarteam || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| smikipedia || http://www.smikipedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| smw || http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| socialism || http://socialism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sockwiki || http://wiki.socklabs.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| solarconquest	|| http://SolarConquest.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sosdancn || http://wiki.sosdancn.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sourceforge || http://sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sourcewatch || http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| spankart || http://spankingartwiki.animeotk.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sport	|| http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sports || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| squeak || http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| srpstvo || http://Srpstvo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ssb || http://www.ssbwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| stargate || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| startrekwiki || http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| starwars || http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fully operational || -
|-
| storypedia || http://Storypedia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| stpete || http://stpete.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| strategywiki || http://strategywiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| strikiwiki || http://ch.twi.tudelft.nl/~mostert/striki/teststriki.pl?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| suceavacounty || http://Suceava.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| suisse || http://suisse.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sunrisesunset || http://sunrisesunset.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| superstar || http://superstar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || czech
|-
| susning || http://www.susning.nu/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|-
| svgwiki || http://wiki.svg.org/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| svtwiki || http://SVT.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| swtrain || http://train.spottingworld.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s || http://www.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[s:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| search || http://search.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| seeds || http://www.IslandSeeds.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| software || http://software.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| startup || http://startup.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| students || http://students.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==

These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::I can undelete pages accordingly if need be, but this seems like a fine enough idea - I don't want it to be ''too'' short, though, just meaty enough that it can serve as a source-diving aid of sorts without getting too into the weeds. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

:: Huh. This sounds like a good idea. They would be little disambiguation articles, with links at the bottom for 3.4.3, 3.6.7, 3.7-dev, and even for variant source code. They wouldn't have line numbers or functions. And if someone writes &lt;nowiki&gt;[[src/mon.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; in a talk page, then the page won't get stale when a new version comes out, people who read source code can figure out that a comment from 2013 was talking about to the 3.4.3 version, especially if there is a link somewhere to a quickie list of release dates. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>9ielvcldq1hf0kzz8vowrywulxlwuj4</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171957</id>
      <parentid>171868</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-25T16:37:09Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 't'</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="107095">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience.

To give further context: below is a series of interwiki links [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5#Wikia Links|that were slated to be dealt with]] after the move to MediaWiki, but it fell to the wayside for more than a decade before another user decided to draw attention to the matter. Below is a series of lists meant to expedite the process and finish what was meant to be done back in 2011.

--[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC) [Original Message: 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:05, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:18, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

{{resolved top}}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===
Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 13:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'r'===

Round 18. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'r', except for these 4:
* religion, religion-wiki, reviews, roguebasin

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[religion:" or "religion:" so I have to look at hits for "religion" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| radioscanning || http://radioscanning.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| raec || http://www.raec.clacso.edu.ar:8080/raec/Members/raecpedia/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| realestate || http://realestate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reallifesoap || http://rls.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| republiconline || http://RepublicOnline.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| revo || http://purl.org/NET/voko/revo/art/$1.html || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| rfc || https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| roadcycling || http://RoadCycling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| robotbattle || http://RobotBattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rollercoastertycoon || http://rct.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| romhack || http://romhack.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| royalisme || http://Royalisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rpg || http://rpg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ru.townn-titles || http://ru.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| runescape || http://RuneScape.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| russianworld || http://russianworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| religion || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| religion-wiki || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reviews || http://reviews.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| roguebasin || https://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=$1 || unsearchable, 10+ known uses || operational || we have 10+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[roguebasin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 's'===

Round 19. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 's', except for these 6:
* s, search, seeds, software, startup, students

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[search:" or "search:" so I have to look at hits for "search" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"s" has at least one use.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s23wiki || http://is-root.de/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Buy this domain. || -
|-
| sageswiki || http://sages.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sagewiki || http://sage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| salmesykkel || http://salmesykkel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| samplitude || http://Samplitude.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sandiego || http://sandiego.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sanfranciscowiki || http://sanfrancisco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sca21 || http://sca21.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| schoolcomputing || http://SchoolComputing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| schools || http://schools.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scoop	|| http://scoop.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scouting || http://scouting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| scoutpedia || http://www.scoutpedia.info/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| scratchpad || http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| scriptingwiki || http://scripting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| seapig || http://www.seapig.org/$1 || 0 || Save Money on Shared or Dedicated Hosting || -
|-
| seattlewiki || http://seattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| seattlewireless || http://seattlewireless.net/?$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| seldonshand || http://seldonhand.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| semweb || http://semweb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| senseislibrary || http://senseis.xmp.net/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgcommand || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgwireless || http://sgwireless.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| shakti || http://cgi.algonet.se/htbin/cgiwrap/pgd/ShaktiWiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| shoppingwiki || http://shopping.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| simpsons || http://simpsons.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| sims || http://sims.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sitelibrary || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| skypeme || skype:$1?chat || 0 || (url not tested) || -
|-
| slashdot || http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| slektami || http://slektami.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| smarteam || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| smikipedia || http://www.smikipedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| smw || http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| socialism || http://socialism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sockwiki || http://wiki.socklabs.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| solarconquest	|| http://SolarConquest.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sosdancn || http://wiki.sosdancn.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sourceforge || http://sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sourcewatch || http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| spankart || http://spankingartwiki.animeotk.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sport	|| http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sports || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| squeak || http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| srpstvo || http://Srpstvo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ssb || http://www.ssbwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| stargate || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| startrekwiki || http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| starwars || http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fully operational || -
|-
| storypedia || http://Storypedia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| stpete || http://stpete.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| strategywiki || http://strategywiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| strikiwiki || http://ch.twi.tudelft.nl/~mostert/striki/teststriki.pl?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| suceavacounty || http://Suceava.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| suisse || http://suisse.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sunrisesunset || http://sunrisesunset.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| superstar || http://superstar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || czech
|-
| susning || http://www.susning.nu/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|-
| svgwiki || http://wiki.svg.org/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| svtwiki || http://SVT.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| swtrain || http://train.spottingworld.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s || http://www.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[s:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| search || http://search.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| seeds || http://www.IslandSeeds.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| software || http://software.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| startup || http://startup.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| students || http://students.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 't'===

Round 20. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 't', except for these 3:
* town-titles, townn-titles, translation

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[translation:" or "translation:" so I have to look at hits for "translation" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"town-titles" and "townn-titles" have special characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

"tvtropes" was special. I found 4 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. However, 2 of them did not work, because tvtropes re-organized their articles; and were not fixable, because our interwiki link points to the Main section of tvtropes and they moved their article on NetHack to the VideoGame section. And then I saw that our article on tvtropes had obsolete information, so I updated that article, added references, and so on. At the end of my editing session, there were 0 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, so you can delete the interwiki link now. tvtropes certainly has a way of engaging people for longer than they planned.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| tablature || http://tablature.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| talisman || http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Top Live Casino || already done, expedited deletion
|-
| tardis || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tavi || http://tavi.sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| techcompare || http://TechCompare.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tejo || http://www.tejo.org/vikio/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| terrorwiki || http://www.liberalsagainstterrorism.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || How To Grow Your Small Business Into a Large Business || -
|-
| tesoltaiwan || http://www.tesol-taiwan.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || no wiki, redirects to its main page || -
|-
| thelemapedia || http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| theopedia || http://www.theopedia.com/$1 || 0 || Not found || -
|-
| theowiki || http://www.theowiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_RESET || -
|-
| thinkwiki || http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| tianjin || http://Tianjin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tmbw || http://www.tmbw.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tmnet || http://www.technomanifestos.net/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| tmwiki || http://www.EasyTopicMaps.com/?page=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| toronto || http://toronto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tourism || http://tourism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| trains || http://trains.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transformers || http://tfwiki.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transhumanism || http://transhumanism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tricities || http://huntricitiesde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| turismo || http://www.tejo.org/turismo/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| turriwiki || http://wiki.finfur.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || Fatal exception of type MWException || -
|-
| tvtropes || http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/$1 || 0 || operational || our interwiki link points to Main and their NetHack article is no longer in Main, so we no longer use any tvtropes:xxx interwiki links
|-
| twiki || http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| twistedwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/twisted/$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found on this site. || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| town-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| townn-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| translation || http://translation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==

These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::I can undelete pages accordingly if need be, but this seems like a fine enough idea - I don't want it to be ''too'' short, though, just meaty enough that it can serve as a source-diving aid of sorts without getting too into the weeds. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

:: Huh. This sounds like a good idea. They would be little disambiguation articles, with links at the bottom for 3.4.3, 3.6.7, 3.7-dev, and even for variant source code. They wouldn't have line numbers or functions. And if someone writes &lt;nowiki&gt;[[src/mon.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; in a talk page, then the page won't get stale when a new version comes out, people who read source code can figure out that a comment from 2013 was talking about to the 3.4.3 version, especially if there is a link somewhere to a quickie list of release dates. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>tilwp4du2nelz3lzmiamhegbloyauwr</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171963</id>
      <parentid>171957</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-25T17:25:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'u'</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="109156">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience.

To give further context: below is a series of interwiki links [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5#Wikia Links|that were slated to be dealt with]] after the move to MediaWiki, but it fell to the wayside for more than a decade before another user decided to draw attention to the matter. Below is a series of lists meant to expedite the process and finish what was meant to be done back in 2011.

--[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC) [Original Message: 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:05, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:18, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

{{resolved top}}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===
Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 13:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'r'===

Round 18. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'r', except for these 4:
* religion, religion-wiki, reviews, roguebasin

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[religion:" or "religion:" so I have to look at hits for "religion" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| radioscanning || http://radioscanning.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| raec || http://www.raec.clacso.edu.ar:8080/raec/Members/raecpedia/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| realestate || http://realestate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reallifesoap || http://rls.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| republiconline || http://RepublicOnline.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| revo || http://purl.org/NET/voko/revo/art/$1.html || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| rfc || https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| roadcycling || http://RoadCycling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| robotbattle || http://RobotBattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rollercoastertycoon || http://rct.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| romhack || http://romhack.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| royalisme || http://Royalisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rpg || http://rpg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ru.townn-titles || http://ru.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| runescape || http://RuneScape.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| russianworld || http://russianworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| religion || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| religion-wiki || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reviews || http://reviews.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| roguebasin || https://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=$1 || unsearchable, 10+ known uses || operational || we have 10+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[roguebasin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 's'===

Round 19. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 's', except for these 6:
* s, search, seeds, software, startup, students

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[search:" or "search:" so I have to look at hits for "search" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"s" has at least one use.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s23wiki || http://is-root.de/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Buy this domain. || -
|-
| sageswiki || http://sages.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sagewiki || http://sage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| salmesykkel || http://salmesykkel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| samplitude || http://Samplitude.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sandiego || http://sandiego.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sanfranciscowiki || http://sanfrancisco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sca21 || http://sca21.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| schoolcomputing || http://SchoolComputing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| schools || http://schools.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scoop	|| http://scoop.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scouting || http://scouting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| scoutpedia || http://www.scoutpedia.info/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| scratchpad || http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| scriptingwiki || http://scripting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| seapig || http://www.seapig.org/$1 || 0 || Save Money on Shared or Dedicated Hosting || -
|-
| seattlewiki || http://seattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| seattlewireless || http://seattlewireless.net/?$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| seldonshand || http://seldonhand.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| semweb || http://semweb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| senseislibrary || http://senseis.xmp.net/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgcommand || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgwireless || http://sgwireless.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| shakti || http://cgi.algonet.se/htbin/cgiwrap/pgd/ShaktiWiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| shoppingwiki || http://shopping.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| simpsons || http://simpsons.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| sims || http://sims.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sitelibrary || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| skypeme || skype:$1?chat || 0 || (url not tested) || -
|-
| slashdot || http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| slektami || http://slektami.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| smarteam || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| smikipedia || http://www.smikipedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| smw || http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| socialism || http://socialism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sockwiki || http://wiki.socklabs.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| solarconquest	|| http://SolarConquest.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sosdancn || http://wiki.sosdancn.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sourceforge || http://sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sourcewatch || http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| spankart || http://spankingartwiki.animeotk.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sport	|| http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sports || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| squeak || http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| srpstvo || http://Srpstvo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ssb || http://www.ssbwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| stargate || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| startrekwiki || http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| starwars || http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fully operational || -
|-
| storypedia || http://Storypedia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| stpete || http://stpete.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| strategywiki || http://strategywiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| strikiwiki || http://ch.twi.tudelft.nl/~mostert/striki/teststriki.pl?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| suceavacounty || http://Suceava.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| suisse || http://suisse.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sunrisesunset || http://sunrisesunset.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| superstar || http://superstar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || czech
|-
| susning || http://www.susning.nu/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|-
| svgwiki || http://wiki.svg.org/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| svtwiki || http://SVT.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| swtrain || http://train.spottingworld.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s || http://www.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[s:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| search || http://search.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| seeds || http://www.IslandSeeds.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| software || http://software.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| startup || http://startup.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| students || http://students.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 't'===

Round 20. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 't', except for these 3:
* town-titles, townn-titles, translation

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[translation:" or "translation:" so I have to look at hits for "translation" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"town-titles" and "townn-titles" have special characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

"tvtropes" was special. I found 4 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. However, 2 of them did not work, because tvtropes re-organized their articles; and were not fixable, because our interwiki link points to the Main section of tvtropes and they moved their article on NetHack to the VideoGame section. And then I saw that our article on tvtropes had obsolete information, so I updated that article, added references, and so on. At the end of my editing session, there were 0 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, so you can delete the interwiki link now. tvtropes certainly has a way of engaging people for longer than they planned.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| tablature || http://tablature.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| talisman || http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Top Live Casino || already done, expedited deletion
|-
| tardis || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tavi || http://tavi.sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| techcompare || http://TechCompare.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tejo || http://www.tejo.org/vikio/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| terrorwiki || http://www.liberalsagainstterrorism.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || How To Grow Your Small Business Into a Large Business || -
|-
| tesoltaiwan || http://www.tesol-taiwan.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || no wiki, redirects to its main page || -
|-
| thelemapedia || http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| theopedia || http://www.theopedia.com/$1 || 0 || Not found || -
|-
| theowiki || http://www.theowiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_RESET || -
|-
| thinkwiki || http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| tianjin || http://Tianjin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tmbw || http://www.tmbw.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tmnet || http://www.technomanifestos.net/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| tmwiki || http://www.EasyTopicMaps.com/?page=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| toronto || http://toronto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tourism || http://tourism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| trains || http://trains.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transformers || http://tfwiki.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transhumanism || http://transhumanism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tricities || http://huntricitiesde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| turismo || http://www.tejo.org/turismo/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| turriwiki || http://wiki.finfur.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || Fatal exception of type MWException || -
|-
| tvtropes || http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/$1 || 0 || operational || our interwiki link points to Main and their NetHack article is no longer in Main, so we no longer use any tvtropes:xxx interwiki links
|-
| twiki || http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| twistedwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/twisted/$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found on this site. || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| town-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| townn-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| translation || http://translation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'u'===

Round 21. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'u', except for this 1:
* university

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[university:" or "university:" so I have to look at hits for "university" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| uea || http://www.tejo.org/uea/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| ufology || http://ufology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukrailways || http://ukrailways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukroads || http://ukroads.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| uncyclopedia || http://www.uncyclopedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || File not found (404 error) || uncyclopedia moved. I changed all 1 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[uncyclopedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to use direct https to current location.
|-
| universitywikinodewiki || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| unreal || http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ursine || http://ursine.ca/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| usej || http://www.tejo.org/usej/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| utopia || http://Utopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| university || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==

These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::I can undelete pages accordingly if need be, but this seems like a fine enough idea - I don't want it to be ''too'' short, though, just meaty enough that it can serve as a source-diving aid of sorts without getting too into the weeds. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

:: Huh. This sounds like a good idea. They would be little disambiguation articles, with links at the bottom for 3.4.3, 3.6.7, 3.7-dev, and even for variant source code. They wouldn't have line numbers or functions. And if someone writes &lt;nowiki&gt;[[src/mon.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; in a talk page, then the page won't get stale when a new version comes out, people who read source code can figure out that a comment from 2013 was talking about to the 3.4.3 version, especially if there is a link somewhere to a quickie list of release dates. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>hvafnaq6spv5yidiq59srdsfqyxwd5o</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171968</id>
      <parentid>171963</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-25T17:54:07Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as Dungeon.h , attrib.c, and Arch.des */ update.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="109677">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience.

To give further context: below is a series of interwiki links [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5#Wikia Links|that were slated to be dealt with]] after the move to MediaWiki, but it fell to the wayside for more than a decade before another user decided to draw attention to the matter. Below is a series of lists meant to expedite the process and finish what was meant to be done back in 2011.

--[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC) [Original Message: 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:05, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:18, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

{{resolved top}}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===
Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 13:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'r'===

Round 18. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'r', except for these 4:
* religion, religion-wiki, reviews, roguebasin

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[religion:" or "religion:" so I have to look at hits for "religion" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| radioscanning || http://radioscanning.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| raec || http://www.raec.clacso.edu.ar:8080/raec/Members/raecpedia/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| realestate || http://realestate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reallifesoap || http://rls.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| republiconline || http://RepublicOnline.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| revo || http://purl.org/NET/voko/revo/art/$1.html || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| rfc || https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| roadcycling || http://RoadCycling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| robotbattle || http://RobotBattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rollercoastertycoon || http://rct.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| romhack || http://romhack.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| royalisme || http://Royalisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rpg || http://rpg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ru.townn-titles || http://ru.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| runescape || http://RuneScape.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| russianworld || http://russianworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| religion || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| religion-wiki || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reviews || http://reviews.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| roguebasin || https://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=$1 || unsearchable, 10+ known uses || operational || we have 10+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[roguebasin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 's'===

Round 19. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 's', except for these 6:
* s, search, seeds, software, startup, students

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[search:" or "search:" so I have to look at hits for "search" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"s" has at least one use.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s23wiki || http://is-root.de/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Buy this domain. || -
|-
| sageswiki || http://sages.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sagewiki || http://sage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| salmesykkel || http://salmesykkel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| samplitude || http://Samplitude.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sandiego || http://sandiego.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sanfranciscowiki || http://sanfrancisco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sca21 || http://sca21.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| schoolcomputing || http://SchoolComputing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| schools || http://schools.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scoop	|| http://scoop.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scouting || http://scouting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| scoutpedia || http://www.scoutpedia.info/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| scratchpad || http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| scriptingwiki || http://scripting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| seapig || http://www.seapig.org/$1 || 0 || Save Money on Shared or Dedicated Hosting || -
|-
| seattlewiki || http://seattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| seattlewireless || http://seattlewireless.net/?$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| seldonshand || http://seldonhand.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| semweb || http://semweb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| senseislibrary || http://senseis.xmp.net/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgcommand || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgwireless || http://sgwireless.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| shakti || http://cgi.algonet.se/htbin/cgiwrap/pgd/ShaktiWiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| shoppingwiki || http://shopping.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| simpsons || http://simpsons.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| sims || http://sims.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sitelibrary || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| skypeme || skype:$1?chat || 0 || (url not tested) || -
|-
| slashdot || http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| slektami || http://slektami.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| smarteam || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| smikipedia || http://www.smikipedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| smw || http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| socialism || http://socialism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sockwiki || http://wiki.socklabs.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| solarconquest	|| http://SolarConquest.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sosdancn || http://wiki.sosdancn.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sourceforge || http://sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sourcewatch || http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| spankart || http://spankingartwiki.animeotk.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sport	|| http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sports || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| squeak || http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| srpstvo || http://Srpstvo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ssb || http://www.ssbwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| stargate || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| startrekwiki || http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| starwars || http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fully operational || -
|-
| storypedia || http://Storypedia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| stpete || http://stpete.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| strategywiki || http://strategywiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| strikiwiki || http://ch.twi.tudelft.nl/~mostert/striki/teststriki.pl?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| suceavacounty || http://Suceava.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| suisse || http://suisse.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sunrisesunset || http://sunrisesunset.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| superstar || http://superstar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || czech
|-
| susning || http://www.susning.nu/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|-
| svgwiki || http://wiki.svg.org/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| svtwiki || http://SVT.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| swtrain || http://train.spottingworld.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s || http://www.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[s:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| search || http://search.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| seeds || http://www.IslandSeeds.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| software || http://software.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| startup || http://startup.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| students || http://students.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 't'===

Round 20. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 't', except for these 3:
* town-titles, townn-titles, translation

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[translation:" or "translation:" so I have to look at hits for "translation" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"town-titles" and "townn-titles" have special characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

"tvtropes" was special. I found 4 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. However, 2 of them did not work, because tvtropes re-organized their articles; and were not fixable, because our interwiki link points to the Main section of tvtropes and they moved their article on NetHack to the VideoGame section. And then I saw that our article on tvtropes had obsolete information, so I updated that article, added references, and so on. At the end of my editing session, there were 0 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, so you can delete the interwiki link now. tvtropes certainly has a way of engaging people for longer than they planned.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| tablature || http://tablature.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| talisman || http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Top Live Casino || already done, expedited deletion
|-
| tardis || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tavi || http://tavi.sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| techcompare || http://TechCompare.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tejo || http://www.tejo.org/vikio/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| terrorwiki || http://www.liberalsagainstterrorism.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || How To Grow Your Small Business Into a Large Business || -
|-
| tesoltaiwan || http://www.tesol-taiwan.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || no wiki, redirects to its main page || -
|-
| thelemapedia || http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| theopedia || http://www.theopedia.com/$1 || 0 || Not found || -
|-
| theowiki || http://www.theowiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_RESET || -
|-
| thinkwiki || http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| tianjin || http://Tianjin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tmbw || http://www.tmbw.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tmnet || http://www.technomanifestos.net/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| tmwiki || http://www.EasyTopicMaps.com/?page=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| toronto || http://toronto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tourism || http://tourism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| trains || http://trains.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transformers || http://tfwiki.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transhumanism || http://transhumanism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tricities || http://huntricitiesde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| turismo || http://www.tejo.org/turismo/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| turriwiki || http://wiki.finfur.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || Fatal exception of type MWException || -
|-
| tvtropes || http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/$1 || 0 || operational || our interwiki link points to Main and their NetHack article is no longer in Main, so we no longer use any tvtropes:xxx interwiki links
|-
| twiki || http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| twistedwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/twisted/$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found on this site. || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| town-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| townn-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| translation || http://translation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'u'===

Round 21. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'u', except for this 1:
* university

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[university:" or "university:" so I have to look at hits for "university" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| uea || http://www.tejo.org/uea/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| ufology || http://ufology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukrailways || http://ukrailways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukroads || http://ukroads.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| uncyclopedia || http://www.uncyclopedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || File not found (404 error) || uncyclopedia moved. I changed all 1 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[uncyclopedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to use direct https to current location.
|-
| universitywikinodewiki || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| unreal || http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ursine || http://ursine.ca/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| usej || http://www.tejo.org/usej/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| utopia || http://Utopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| university || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==

These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::I can undelete pages accordingly if need be, but this seems like a fine enough idea - I don't want it to be ''too'' short, though, just meaty enough that it can serve as a source-diving aid of sorts without getting too into the weeds. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

:: Huh. This sounds like a good idea. They would be little disambiguation articles, with links at the bottom for 3.4.3, 3.6.7, 3.7-dev, and even for variant source code. They wouldn't have line numbers or functions. And if someone writes &lt;nowiki&gt;[[src/mon.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; in a talk page, then the page won't get stale when a new version comes out, people who read source code can figure out that a comment from 2013 was talking about to the 3.4.3 version, especially if there is a link somewhere to a quickie list of release dates. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

This is more complicated than I thought. For example, NetHackWiki has 14 files and 15 redirects for the source file "dogmove.c". I would like to digest the current scheme before making proposals and carrying out sweeps. Interested editors are invited to read and comment on [[User:Furey/How many copies of dogmove.c?]].

Meanwhile, I withdraw this proposal. I'll come back with rewritten proposals if I can get some consensus on my "how many copies" page. I am still fixing pages that link to ''wrong'' source versions.</text>
      <sha1>nute9qjeh4lkeczixpx4c1hg5hkce22</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171969</id>
      <parentid>171968</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-25T18:05:08Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Umbire the Phantom</username>
        <id>4001279</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>unsigned</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="109696">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience.

To give further context: below is a series of interwiki links [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5#Wikia Links|that were slated to be dealt with]] after the move to MediaWiki, but it fell to the wayside for more than a decade before another user decided to draw attention to the matter. Below is a series of lists meant to expedite the process and finish what was meant to be done back in 2011.

--[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC) [Original Message: 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:05, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:18, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

{{resolved top}}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===
Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 13:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'r'===

Round 18. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'r', except for these 4:
* religion, religion-wiki, reviews, roguebasin

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[religion:" or "religion:" so I have to look at hits for "religion" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| radioscanning || http://radioscanning.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| raec || http://www.raec.clacso.edu.ar:8080/raec/Members/raecpedia/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| realestate || http://realestate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reallifesoap || http://rls.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| republiconline || http://RepublicOnline.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| revo || http://purl.org/NET/voko/revo/art/$1.html || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| rfc || https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| roadcycling || http://RoadCycling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| robotbattle || http://RobotBattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rollercoastertycoon || http://rct.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| romhack || http://romhack.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| royalisme || http://Royalisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rpg || http://rpg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ru.townn-titles || http://ru.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| runescape || http://RuneScape.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| russianworld || http://russianworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| religion || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| religion-wiki || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reviews || http://reviews.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| roguebasin || https://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=$1 || unsearchable, 10+ known uses || operational || we have 10+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[roguebasin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 's'===

Round 19. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 's', except for these 6:
* s, search, seeds, software, startup, students

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[search:" or "search:" so I have to look at hits for "search" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"s" has at least one use.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s23wiki || http://is-root.de/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Buy this domain. || -
|-
| sageswiki || http://sages.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sagewiki || http://sage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| salmesykkel || http://salmesykkel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| samplitude || http://Samplitude.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sandiego || http://sandiego.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sanfranciscowiki || http://sanfrancisco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sca21 || http://sca21.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| schoolcomputing || http://SchoolComputing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| schools || http://schools.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scoop	|| http://scoop.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scouting || http://scouting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| scoutpedia || http://www.scoutpedia.info/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| scratchpad || http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| scriptingwiki || http://scripting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| seapig || http://www.seapig.org/$1 || 0 || Save Money on Shared or Dedicated Hosting || -
|-
| seattlewiki || http://seattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| seattlewireless || http://seattlewireless.net/?$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| seldonshand || http://seldonhand.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| semweb || http://semweb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| senseislibrary || http://senseis.xmp.net/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgcommand || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgwireless || http://sgwireless.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| shakti || http://cgi.algonet.se/htbin/cgiwrap/pgd/ShaktiWiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| shoppingwiki || http://shopping.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| simpsons || http://simpsons.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| sims || http://sims.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sitelibrary || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| skypeme || skype:$1?chat || 0 || (url not tested) || -
|-
| slashdot || http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| slektami || http://slektami.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| smarteam || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| smikipedia || http://www.smikipedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| smw || http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| socialism || http://socialism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sockwiki || http://wiki.socklabs.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| solarconquest	|| http://SolarConquest.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sosdancn || http://wiki.sosdancn.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sourceforge || http://sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sourcewatch || http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| spankart || http://spankingartwiki.animeotk.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sport	|| http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sports || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| squeak || http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| srpstvo || http://Srpstvo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ssb || http://www.ssbwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| stargate || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| startrekwiki || http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| starwars || http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fully operational || -
|-
| storypedia || http://Storypedia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| stpete || http://stpete.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| strategywiki || http://strategywiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| strikiwiki || http://ch.twi.tudelft.nl/~mostert/striki/teststriki.pl?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| suceavacounty || http://Suceava.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| suisse || http://suisse.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sunrisesunset || http://sunrisesunset.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| superstar || http://superstar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || czech
|-
| susning || http://www.susning.nu/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|-
| svgwiki || http://wiki.svg.org/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| svtwiki || http://SVT.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| swtrain || http://train.spottingworld.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s || http://www.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[s:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| search || http://search.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| seeds || http://www.IslandSeeds.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| software || http://software.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| startup || http://startup.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| students || http://students.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 't'===

Round 20. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 't', except for these 3:
* town-titles, townn-titles, translation

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[translation:" or "translation:" so I have to look at hits for "translation" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"town-titles" and "townn-titles" have special characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

"tvtropes" was special. I found 4 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. However, 2 of them did not work, because tvtropes re-organized their articles; and were not fixable, because our interwiki link points to the Main section of tvtropes and they moved their article on NetHack to the VideoGame section. And then I saw that our article on tvtropes had obsolete information, so I updated that article, added references, and so on. At the end of my editing session, there were 0 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, so you can delete the interwiki link now. tvtropes certainly has a way of engaging people for longer than they planned.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| tablature || http://tablature.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| talisman || http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Top Live Casino || already done, expedited deletion
|-
| tardis || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tavi || http://tavi.sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| techcompare || http://TechCompare.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tejo || http://www.tejo.org/vikio/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| terrorwiki || http://www.liberalsagainstterrorism.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || How To Grow Your Small Business Into a Large Business || -
|-
| tesoltaiwan || http://www.tesol-taiwan.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || no wiki, redirects to its main page || -
|-
| thelemapedia || http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| theopedia || http://www.theopedia.com/$1 || 0 || Not found || -
|-
| theowiki || http://www.theowiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_RESET || -
|-
| thinkwiki || http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| tianjin || http://Tianjin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tmbw || http://www.tmbw.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tmnet || http://www.technomanifestos.net/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| tmwiki || http://www.EasyTopicMaps.com/?page=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| toronto || http://toronto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tourism || http://tourism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| trains || http://trains.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transformers || http://tfwiki.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transhumanism || http://transhumanism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tricities || http://huntricitiesde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| turismo || http://www.tejo.org/turismo/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| turriwiki || http://wiki.finfur.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || Fatal exception of type MWException || -
|-
| tvtropes || http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/$1 || 0 || operational || our interwiki link points to Main and their NetHack article is no longer in Main, so we no longer use any tvtropes:xxx interwiki links
|-
| twiki || http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| twistedwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/twisted/$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found on this site. || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| town-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| townn-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| translation || http://translation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'u'===

Round 21. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'u', except for this 1:
* university

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[university:" or "university:" so I have to look at hits for "university" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| uea || http://www.tejo.org/uea/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| ufology || http://ufology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukrailways || http://ukrailways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukroads || http://ukroads.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| uncyclopedia || http://www.uncyclopedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || File not found (404 error) || uncyclopedia moved. I changed all 1 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[uncyclopedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to use direct https to current location.
|-
| universitywikinodewiki || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| unreal || http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ursine || http://ursine.ca/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| usej || http://www.tejo.org/usej/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| utopia || http://Utopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| university || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==

These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::I can undelete pages accordingly if need be, but this seems like a fine enough idea - I don't want it to be ''too'' short, though, just meaty enough that it can serve as a source-diving aid of sorts without getting too into the weeds. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

:: Huh. This sounds like a good idea. They would be little disambiguation articles, with links at the bottom for 3.4.3, 3.6.7, 3.7-dev, and even for variant source code. They wouldn't have line numbers or functions. And if someone writes &lt;nowiki&gt;[[src/mon.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; in a talk page, then the page won't get stale when a new version comes out, people who read source code can figure out that a comment from 2013 was talking about to the 3.4.3 version, especially if there is a link somewhere to a quickie list of release dates. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

This is more complicated than I thought. For example, NetHackWiki has 14 files and 15 redirects for the source file "dogmove.c". I would like to digest the current scheme before making proposals and carrying out sweeps. Interested editors are invited to read and comment on [[User:Furey/How many copies of dogmove.c?]].

Meanwhile, I withdraw this proposal. I'll come back with rewritten proposals if I can get some consensus on my "how many copies" page. I am still fixing pages that link to ''wrong'' source versions. {{unsigned|Furey}}</text>
      <sha1>586phf1v3udspv44m2cbiavmddj8z3h</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>171994</id>
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      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'v'</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="111344">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience.

To give further context: below is a series of interwiki links [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5#Wikia Links|that were slated to be dealt with]] after the move to MediaWiki, but it fell to the wayside for more than a decade before another user decided to draw attention to the matter. Below is a series of lists meant to expedite the process and finish what was meant to be done back in 2011.

--[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC) [Original Message: 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:05, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:18, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

{{resolved top}}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===
Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 13:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'r'===

Round 18. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'r', except for these 4:
* religion, religion-wiki, reviews, roguebasin

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[religion:" or "religion:" so I have to look at hits for "religion" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| radioscanning || http://radioscanning.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| raec || http://www.raec.clacso.edu.ar:8080/raec/Members/raecpedia/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| realestate || http://realestate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reallifesoap || http://rls.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| republiconline || http://RepublicOnline.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| revo || http://purl.org/NET/voko/revo/art/$1.html || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| rfc || https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| roadcycling || http://RoadCycling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| robotbattle || http://RobotBattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rollercoastertycoon || http://rct.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| romhack || http://romhack.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| royalisme || http://Royalisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rpg || http://rpg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ru.townn-titles || http://ru.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| runescape || http://RuneScape.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| russianworld || http://russianworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| religion || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| religion-wiki || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reviews || http://reviews.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| roguebasin || https://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=$1 || unsearchable, 10+ known uses || operational || we have 10+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[roguebasin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 's'===

Round 19. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 's', except for these 6:
* s, search, seeds, software, startup, students

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[search:" or "search:" so I have to look at hits for "search" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"s" has at least one use.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s23wiki || http://is-root.de/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Buy this domain. || -
|-
| sageswiki || http://sages.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sagewiki || http://sage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| salmesykkel || http://salmesykkel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| samplitude || http://Samplitude.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sandiego || http://sandiego.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sanfranciscowiki || http://sanfrancisco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sca21 || http://sca21.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| schoolcomputing || http://SchoolComputing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| schools || http://schools.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scoop	|| http://scoop.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scouting || http://scouting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| scoutpedia || http://www.scoutpedia.info/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| scratchpad || http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| scriptingwiki || http://scripting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| seapig || http://www.seapig.org/$1 || 0 || Save Money on Shared or Dedicated Hosting || -
|-
| seattlewiki || http://seattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| seattlewireless || http://seattlewireless.net/?$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| seldonshand || http://seldonhand.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| semweb || http://semweb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| senseislibrary || http://senseis.xmp.net/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgcommand || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgwireless || http://sgwireless.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| shakti || http://cgi.algonet.se/htbin/cgiwrap/pgd/ShaktiWiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| shoppingwiki || http://shopping.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| simpsons || http://simpsons.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| sims || http://sims.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sitelibrary || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| skypeme || skype:$1?chat || 0 || (url not tested) || -
|-
| slashdot || http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| slektami || http://slektami.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| smarteam || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| smikipedia || http://www.smikipedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| smw || http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| socialism || http://socialism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sockwiki || http://wiki.socklabs.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| solarconquest	|| http://SolarConquest.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sosdancn || http://wiki.sosdancn.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sourceforge || http://sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sourcewatch || http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| spankart || http://spankingartwiki.animeotk.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sport	|| http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sports || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| squeak || http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| srpstvo || http://Srpstvo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ssb || http://www.ssbwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| stargate || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| startrekwiki || http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| starwars || http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fully operational || -
|-
| storypedia || http://Storypedia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| stpete || http://stpete.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| strategywiki || http://strategywiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| strikiwiki || http://ch.twi.tudelft.nl/~mostert/striki/teststriki.pl?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| suceavacounty || http://Suceava.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| suisse || http://suisse.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sunrisesunset || http://sunrisesunset.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| superstar || http://superstar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || czech
|-
| susning || http://www.susning.nu/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|-
| svgwiki || http://wiki.svg.org/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| svtwiki || http://SVT.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| swtrain || http://train.spottingworld.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s || http://www.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[s:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| search || http://search.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| seeds || http://www.IslandSeeds.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| software || http://software.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| startup || http://startup.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| students || http://students.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 't'===

Round 20. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 't', except for these 3:
* town-titles, townn-titles, translation

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[translation:" or "translation:" so I have to look at hits for "translation" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"town-titles" and "townn-titles" have special characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

"tvtropes" was special. I found 4 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. However, 2 of them did not work, because tvtropes re-organized their articles; and were not fixable, because our interwiki link points to the Main section of tvtropes and they moved their article on NetHack to the VideoGame section. And then I saw that our article on tvtropes had obsolete information, so I updated that article, added references, and so on. At the end of my editing session, there were 0 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, so you can delete the interwiki link now. tvtropes certainly has a way of engaging people for longer than they planned.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| tablature || http://tablature.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| talisman || http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Top Live Casino || already done, expedited deletion
|-
| tardis || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tavi || http://tavi.sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| techcompare || http://TechCompare.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tejo || http://www.tejo.org/vikio/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| terrorwiki || http://www.liberalsagainstterrorism.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || How To Grow Your Small Business Into a Large Business || -
|-
| tesoltaiwan || http://www.tesol-taiwan.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || no wiki, redirects to its main page || -
|-
| thelemapedia || http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| theopedia || http://www.theopedia.com/$1 || 0 || Not found || -
|-
| theowiki || http://www.theowiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_RESET || -
|-
| thinkwiki || http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| tianjin || http://Tianjin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tmbw || http://www.tmbw.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tmnet || http://www.technomanifestos.net/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| tmwiki || http://www.EasyTopicMaps.com/?page=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| toronto || http://toronto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tourism || http://tourism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| trains || http://trains.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transformers || http://tfwiki.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transhumanism || http://transhumanism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tricities || http://huntricitiesde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| turismo || http://www.tejo.org/turismo/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| turriwiki || http://wiki.finfur.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || Fatal exception of type MWException || -
|-
| tvtropes || http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/$1 || 0 || operational || our interwiki link points to Main and their NetHack article is no longer in Main, so we no longer use any tvtropes:xxx interwiki links
|-
| twiki || http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| twistedwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/twisted/$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found on this site. || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| town-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| townn-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| translation || http://translation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'u'===

Round 21. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'u', except for this 1:
* university

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[university:" or "university:" so I have to look at hits for "university" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| uea || http://www.tejo.org/uea/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| ufology || http://ufology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukrailways || http://ukrailways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukroads || http://ukroads.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| uncyclopedia || http://www.uncyclopedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || File not found (404 error) || uncyclopedia moved. I changed all 1 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[uncyclopedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to use direct https to current location.
|-
| universitywikinodewiki || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| unreal || http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ursine || http://ursine.ca/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| usej || http://www.tejo.org/usej/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| utopia || http://Utopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| university || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'v'===
Round 22. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'v'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (v) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| vancouver || http://vancouver.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| vanishedlibrary || http://VanishedLibrary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| vegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| villagearts || http://www.Village-Arts.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| vinismo || http://vinismo.com/en/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| virtualpets || http://VirtualPets.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| virus || http://virus.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| visualworks || http://wiki.cs.uiuc.edu/VisualWorks/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| vlaamseklantenbrussel	|| http://vlaamseklantenbrussel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| voterice || http://voterice.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (v) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'v'.

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==

These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::I can undelete pages accordingly if need be, but this seems like a fine enough idea - I don't want it to be ''too'' short, though, just meaty enough that it can serve as a source-diving aid of sorts without getting too into the weeds. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

:: Huh. This sounds like a good idea. They would be little disambiguation articles, with links at the bottom for 3.4.3, 3.6.7, 3.7-dev, and even for variant source code. They wouldn't have line numbers or functions. And if someone writes &lt;nowiki&gt;[[src/mon.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; in a talk page, then the page won't get stale when a new version comes out, people who read source code can figure out that a comment from 2013 was talking about to the 3.4.3 version, especially if there is a link somewhere to a quickie list of release dates. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

This is more complicated than I thought. For example, NetHackWiki has 14 files and 15 redirects for the source file "dogmove.c". I would like to digest the current scheme before making proposals and carrying out sweeps. Interested editors are invited to read and comment on [[User:Furey/How many copies of dogmove.c?]].

Meanwhile, I withdraw this proposal. I'll come back with rewritten proposals if I can get some consensus on my "how many copies" page. I am still fixing pages that link to ''wrong'' source versions. {{unsigned|Furey}}</text>
      <sha1>0f0mlnziu6doacsdnrjve43i0zzd55n</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>172007</id>
      <parentid>171994</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-26T02:13:53Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ScienceBall</username>
        <id>4001468</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as Dungeon.h , attrib.c, and Arch.des */ Style guide says that the unsigned template must be substituted, not transcluded</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="111569">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience.

To give further context: below is a series of interwiki links [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5#Wikia Links|that were slated to be dealt with]] after the move to MediaWiki, but it fell to the wayside for more than a decade before another user decided to draw attention to the matter. Below is a series of lists meant to expedite the process and finish what was meant to be done back in 2011.

--[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC) [Original Message: 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:05, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:18, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

{{resolved top}}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===
Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 13:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'r'===

Round 18. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'r', except for these 4:
* religion, religion-wiki, reviews, roguebasin

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[religion:" or "religion:" so I have to look at hits for "religion" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| radioscanning || http://radioscanning.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| raec || http://www.raec.clacso.edu.ar:8080/raec/Members/raecpedia/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| realestate || http://realestate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reallifesoap || http://rls.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| republiconline || http://RepublicOnline.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| revo || http://purl.org/NET/voko/revo/art/$1.html || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| rfc || https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| roadcycling || http://RoadCycling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| robotbattle || http://RobotBattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rollercoastertycoon || http://rct.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| romhack || http://romhack.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| royalisme || http://Royalisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rpg || http://rpg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ru.townn-titles || http://ru.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| runescape || http://RuneScape.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| russianworld || http://russianworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| religion || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| religion-wiki || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reviews || http://reviews.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| roguebasin || https://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=$1 || unsearchable, 10+ known uses || operational || we have 10+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[roguebasin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 's'===

Round 19. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 's', except for these 6:
* s, search, seeds, software, startup, students

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[search:" or "search:" so I have to look at hits for "search" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"s" has at least one use.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s23wiki || http://is-root.de/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Buy this domain. || -
|-
| sageswiki || http://sages.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sagewiki || http://sage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| salmesykkel || http://salmesykkel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| samplitude || http://Samplitude.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sandiego || http://sandiego.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sanfranciscowiki || http://sanfrancisco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sca21 || http://sca21.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| schoolcomputing || http://SchoolComputing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| schools || http://schools.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scoop	|| http://scoop.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scouting || http://scouting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| scoutpedia || http://www.scoutpedia.info/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| scratchpad || http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| scriptingwiki || http://scripting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| seapig || http://www.seapig.org/$1 || 0 || Save Money on Shared or Dedicated Hosting || -
|-
| seattlewiki || http://seattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| seattlewireless || http://seattlewireless.net/?$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| seldonshand || http://seldonhand.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| semweb || http://semweb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| senseislibrary || http://senseis.xmp.net/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgcommand || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgwireless || http://sgwireless.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| shakti || http://cgi.algonet.se/htbin/cgiwrap/pgd/ShaktiWiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| shoppingwiki || http://shopping.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| simpsons || http://simpsons.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| sims || http://sims.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sitelibrary || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| skypeme || skype:$1?chat || 0 || (url not tested) || -
|-
| slashdot || http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| slektami || http://slektami.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| smarteam || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| smikipedia || http://www.smikipedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| smw || http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| socialism || http://socialism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sockwiki || http://wiki.socklabs.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| solarconquest	|| http://SolarConquest.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sosdancn || http://wiki.sosdancn.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sourceforge || http://sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sourcewatch || http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| spankart || http://spankingartwiki.animeotk.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sport	|| http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sports || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| squeak || http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| srpstvo || http://Srpstvo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ssb || http://www.ssbwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| stargate || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| startrekwiki || http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| starwars || http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fully operational || -
|-
| storypedia || http://Storypedia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| stpete || http://stpete.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| strategywiki || http://strategywiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| strikiwiki || http://ch.twi.tudelft.nl/~mostert/striki/teststriki.pl?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| suceavacounty || http://Suceava.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| suisse || http://suisse.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sunrisesunset || http://sunrisesunset.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| superstar || http://superstar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || czech
|-
| susning || http://www.susning.nu/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|-
| svgwiki || http://wiki.svg.org/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| svtwiki || http://SVT.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| swtrain || http://train.spottingworld.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s || http://www.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[s:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| search || http://search.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| seeds || http://www.IslandSeeds.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| software || http://software.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| startup || http://startup.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| students || http://students.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 't'===

Round 20. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 't', except for these 3:
* town-titles, townn-titles, translation

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[translation:" or "translation:" so I have to look at hits for "translation" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"town-titles" and "townn-titles" have special characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

"tvtropes" was special. I found 4 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. However, 2 of them did not work, because tvtropes re-organized their articles; and were not fixable, because our interwiki link points to the Main section of tvtropes and they moved their article on NetHack to the VideoGame section. And then I saw that our article on tvtropes had obsolete information, so I updated that article, added references, and so on. At the end of my editing session, there were 0 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, so you can delete the interwiki link now. tvtropes certainly has a way of engaging people for longer than they planned.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| tablature || http://tablature.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| talisman || http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Top Live Casino || already done, expedited deletion
|-
| tardis || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tavi || http://tavi.sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| techcompare || http://TechCompare.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tejo || http://www.tejo.org/vikio/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| terrorwiki || http://www.liberalsagainstterrorism.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || How To Grow Your Small Business Into a Large Business || -
|-
| tesoltaiwan || http://www.tesol-taiwan.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || no wiki, redirects to its main page || -
|-
| thelemapedia || http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| theopedia || http://www.theopedia.com/$1 || 0 || Not found || -
|-
| theowiki || http://www.theowiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_RESET || -
|-
| thinkwiki || http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| tianjin || http://Tianjin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tmbw || http://www.tmbw.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tmnet || http://www.technomanifestos.net/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| tmwiki || http://www.EasyTopicMaps.com/?page=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| toronto || http://toronto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tourism || http://tourism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| trains || http://trains.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transformers || http://tfwiki.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transhumanism || http://transhumanism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tricities || http://huntricitiesde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| turismo || http://www.tejo.org/turismo/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| turriwiki || http://wiki.finfur.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || Fatal exception of type MWException || -
|-
| tvtropes || http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/$1 || 0 || operational || our interwiki link points to Main and their NetHack article is no longer in Main, so we no longer use any tvtropes:xxx interwiki links
|-
| twiki || http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| twistedwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/twisted/$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found on this site. || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| town-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| townn-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| translation || http://translation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'u'===

Round 21. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'u', except for this 1:
* university

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[university:" or "university:" so I have to look at hits for "university" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| uea || http://www.tejo.org/uea/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| ufology || http://ufology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukrailways || http://ukrailways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukroads || http://ukroads.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| uncyclopedia || http://www.uncyclopedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || File not found (404 error) || uncyclopedia moved. I changed all 1 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[uncyclopedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to use direct https to current location.
|-
| universitywikinodewiki || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| unreal || http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ursine || http://ursine.ca/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| usej || http://www.tejo.org/usej/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| utopia || http://Utopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| university || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'v'===
Round 22. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'v'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (v) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| vancouver || http://vancouver.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| vanishedlibrary || http://VanishedLibrary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| vegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| villagearts || http://www.Village-Arts.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| vinismo || http://vinismo.com/en/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| virtualpets || http://VirtualPets.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| virus || http://virus.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| visualworks || http://wiki.cs.uiuc.edu/VisualWorks/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| vlaamseklantenbrussel	|| http://vlaamseklantenbrussel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| voterice || http://voterice.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (v) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'v'.

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==

These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::I can undelete pages accordingly if need be, but this seems like a fine enough idea - I don't want it to be ''too'' short, though, just meaty enough that it can serve as a source-diving aid of sorts without getting too into the weeds. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

:: Huh. This sounds like a good idea. They would be little disambiguation articles, with links at the bottom for 3.4.3, 3.6.7, 3.7-dev, and even for variant source code. They wouldn't have line numbers or functions. And if someone writes &lt;nowiki&gt;[[src/mon.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; in a talk page, then the page won't get stale when a new version comes out, people who read source code can figure out that a comment from 2013 was talking about to the 3.4.3 version, especially if there is a link somewhere to a quickie list of release dates. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

This is more complicated than I thought. For example, NetHackWiki has 14 files and 15 redirects for the source file "dogmove.c". I would like to digest the current scheme before making proposals and carrying out sweeps. Interested editors are invited to read and comment on [[User:Furey/How many copies of dogmove.c?]].

Meanwhile, I withdraw this proposal. I'll come back with rewritten proposals if I can get some consensus on my "how many copies" page. I am still fixing pages that link to ''wrong'' source versions. &lt;span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned"&gt;—&amp;#8239;Preceding [[NetHackWiki:Style_guide#Sign_your_posts|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Furey|contribs]]) &lt;/span&gt;</text>
      <sha1>6asn6jh8n84653sytlemm0osrp7715f</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>172011</id>
      <parentid>172007</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-26T03:15:42Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <minor/>
      <comment>Okay. Post is signed. No need for a bunch of markup. ... any interest in the actual subject?</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="111400">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience.

To give further context: below is a series of interwiki links [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5#Wikia Links|that were slated to be dealt with]] after the move to MediaWiki, but it fell to the wayside for more than a decade before another user decided to draw attention to the matter. Below is a series of lists meant to expedite the process and finish what was meant to be done back in 2011.

--[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC) [Original Message: 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:05, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:18, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

{{resolved top}}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===
Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 13:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'r'===

Round 18. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'r', except for these 4:
* religion, religion-wiki, reviews, roguebasin

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[religion:" or "religion:" so I have to look at hits for "religion" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| radioscanning || http://radioscanning.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| raec || http://www.raec.clacso.edu.ar:8080/raec/Members/raecpedia/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| realestate || http://realestate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reallifesoap || http://rls.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| republiconline || http://RepublicOnline.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| revo || http://purl.org/NET/voko/revo/art/$1.html || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| rfc || https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| roadcycling || http://RoadCycling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| robotbattle || http://RobotBattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rollercoastertycoon || http://rct.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| romhack || http://romhack.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| royalisme || http://Royalisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rpg || http://rpg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ru.townn-titles || http://ru.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| runescape || http://RuneScape.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| russianworld || http://russianworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| religion || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| religion-wiki || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reviews || http://reviews.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| roguebasin || https://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=$1 || unsearchable, 10+ known uses || operational || we have 10+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[roguebasin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 's'===

Round 19. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 's', except for these 6:
* s, search, seeds, software, startup, students

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[search:" or "search:" so I have to look at hits for "search" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"s" has at least one use.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s23wiki || http://is-root.de/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Buy this domain. || -
|-
| sageswiki || http://sages.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sagewiki || http://sage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| salmesykkel || http://salmesykkel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| samplitude || http://Samplitude.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sandiego || http://sandiego.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sanfranciscowiki || http://sanfrancisco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sca21 || http://sca21.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| schoolcomputing || http://SchoolComputing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| schools || http://schools.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scoop	|| http://scoop.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scouting || http://scouting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| scoutpedia || http://www.scoutpedia.info/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| scratchpad || http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| scriptingwiki || http://scripting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| seapig || http://www.seapig.org/$1 || 0 || Save Money on Shared or Dedicated Hosting || -
|-
| seattlewiki || http://seattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| seattlewireless || http://seattlewireless.net/?$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| seldonshand || http://seldonhand.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| semweb || http://semweb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| senseislibrary || http://senseis.xmp.net/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgcommand || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgwireless || http://sgwireless.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| shakti || http://cgi.algonet.se/htbin/cgiwrap/pgd/ShaktiWiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| shoppingwiki || http://shopping.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| simpsons || http://simpsons.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| sims || http://sims.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sitelibrary || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| skypeme || skype:$1?chat || 0 || (url not tested) || -
|-
| slashdot || http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| slektami || http://slektami.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| smarteam || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| smikipedia || http://www.smikipedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| smw || http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| socialism || http://socialism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sockwiki || http://wiki.socklabs.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| solarconquest	|| http://SolarConquest.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sosdancn || http://wiki.sosdancn.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sourceforge || http://sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sourcewatch || http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| spankart || http://spankingartwiki.animeotk.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sport	|| http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sports || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| squeak || http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| srpstvo || http://Srpstvo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ssb || http://www.ssbwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| stargate || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| startrekwiki || http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| starwars || http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fully operational || -
|-
| storypedia || http://Storypedia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| stpete || http://stpete.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| strategywiki || http://strategywiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| strikiwiki || http://ch.twi.tudelft.nl/~mostert/striki/teststriki.pl?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| suceavacounty || http://Suceava.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| suisse || http://suisse.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sunrisesunset || http://sunrisesunset.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| superstar || http://superstar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || czech
|-
| susning || http://www.susning.nu/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|-
| svgwiki || http://wiki.svg.org/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| svtwiki || http://SVT.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| swtrain || http://train.spottingworld.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s || http://www.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[s:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| search || http://search.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| seeds || http://www.IslandSeeds.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| software || http://software.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| startup || http://startup.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| students || http://students.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 't'===

Round 20. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 't', except for these 3:
* town-titles, townn-titles, translation

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[translation:" or "translation:" so I have to look at hits for "translation" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"town-titles" and "townn-titles" have special characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

"tvtropes" was special. I found 4 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. However, 2 of them did not work, because tvtropes re-organized their articles; and were not fixable, because our interwiki link points to the Main section of tvtropes and they moved their article on NetHack to the VideoGame section. And then I saw that our article on tvtropes had obsolete information, so I updated that article, added references, and so on. At the end of my editing session, there were 0 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, so you can delete the interwiki link now. tvtropes certainly has a way of engaging people for longer than they planned.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| tablature || http://tablature.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| talisman || http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Top Live Casino || already done, expedited deletion
|-
| tardis || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tavi || http://tavi.sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| techcompare || http://TechCompare.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tejo || http://www.tejo.org/vikio/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| terrorwiki || http://www.liberalsagainstterrorism.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || How To Grow Your Small Business Into a Large Business || -
|-
| tesoltaiwan || http://www.tesol-taiwan.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || no wiki, redirects to its main page || -
|-
| thelemapedia || http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| theopedia || http://www.theopedia.com/$1 || 0 || Not found || -
|-
| theowiki || http://www.theowiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_RESET || -
|-
| thinkwiki || http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| tianjin || http://Tianjin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tmbw || http://www.tmbw.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tmnet || http://www.technomanifestos.net/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| tmwiki || http://www.EasyTopicMaps.com/?page=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| toronto || http://toronto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tourism || http://tourism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| trains || http://trains.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transformers || http://tfwiki.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transhumanism || http://transhumanism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tricities || http://huntricitiesde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| turismo || http://www.tejo.org/turismo/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| turriwiki || http://wiki.finfur.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || Fatal exception of type MWException || -
|-
| tvtropes || http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/$1 || 0 || operational || our interwiki link points to Main and their NetHack article is no longer in Main, so we no longer use any tvtropes:xxx interwiki links
|-
| twiki || http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| twistedwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/twisted/$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found on this site. || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| town-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| townn-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| translation || http://translation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'u'===

Round 21. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'u', except for this 1:
* university

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[university:" or "university:" so I have to look at hits for "university" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| uea || http://www.tejo.org/uea/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| ufology || http://ufology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukrailways || http://ukrailways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukroads || http://ukroads.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| uncyclopedia || http://www.uncyclopedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || File not found (404 error) || uncyclopedia moved. I changed all 1 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[uncyclopedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to use direct https to current location.
|-
| universitywikinodewiki || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| unreal || http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ursine || http://ursine.ca/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| usej || http://www.tejo.org/usej/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| utopia || http://Utopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| university || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'v'===
Round 22. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'v'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (v) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| vancouver || http://vancouver.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| vanishedlibrary || http://VanishedLibrary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| vegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| villagearts || http://www.Village-Arts.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| vinismo || http://vinismo.com/en/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| virtualpets || http://VirtualPets.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| virus || http://virus.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| visualworks || http://wiki.cs.uiuc.edu/VisualWorks/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| vlaamseklantenbrussel	|| http://vlaamseklantenbrussel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| voterice || http://voterice.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (v) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'v'.

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==

These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::I can undelete pages accordingly if need be, but this seems like a fine enough idea - I don't want it to be ''too'' short, though, just meaty enough that it can serve as a source-diving aid of sorts without getting too into the weeds. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

:: Huh. This sounds like a good idea. They would be little disambiguation articles, with links at the bottom for 3.4.3, 3.6.7, 3.7-dev, and even for variant source code. They wouldn't have line numbers or functions. And if someone writes &lt;nowiki&gt;[[src/mon.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; in a talk page, then the page won't get stale when a new version comes out, people who read source code can figure out that a comment from 2013 was talking about to the 3.4.3 version, especially if there is a link somewhere to a quickie list of release dates. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

This is more complicated than I thought. For example, NetHackWiki has 14 files and 15 redirects for the source file "dogmove.c". I would like to digest the current scheme before making proposals and carrying out sweeps. Interested editors are invited to read and comment on [[User:Furey/How many copies of dogmove.c?]].

Meanwhile, I withdraw this proposal. I'll come back with rewritten proposals if I can get some consensus on my "how many copies" page. I am still fixing pages that link to ''wrong'' source versions.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:15, 26 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>hhgr4akckj6kusjlhqj2ooz33f0nagt</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>172084</id>
      <parentid>172011</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-26T14:39:29Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'w'</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="117361">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience.

To give further context: below is a series of interwiki links [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5#Wikia Links|that were slated to be dealt with]] after the move to MediaWiki, but it fell to the wayside for more than a decade before another user decided to draw attention to the matter. Below is a series of lists meant to expedite the process and finish what was meant to be done back in 2011.

--[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC) [Original Message: 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:05, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:18, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

{{resolved top}}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===
Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 13:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'r'===

Round 18. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'r', except for these 4:
* religion, religion-wiki, reviews, roguebasin

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[religion:" or "religion:" so I have to look at hits for "religion" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| radioscanning || http://radioscanning.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| raec || http://www.raec.clacso.edu.ar:8080/raec/Members/raecpedia/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| realestate || http://realestate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reallifesoap || http://rls.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| republiconline || http://RepublicOnline.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| revo || http://purl.org/NET/voko/revo/art/$1.html || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| rfc || https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| roadcycling || http://RoadCycling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| robotbattle || http://RobotBattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rollercoastertycoon || http://rct.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| romhack || http://romhack.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| royalisme || http://Royalisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rpg || http://rpg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ru.townn-titles || http://ru.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| runescape || http://RuneScape.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| russianworld || http://russianworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| religion || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| religion-wiki || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reviews || http://reviews.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| roguebasin || https://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=$1 || unsearchable, 10+ known uses || operational || we have 10+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[roguebasin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 's'===

Round 19. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 's', except for these 6:
* s, search, seeds, software, startup, students

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[search:" or "search:" so I have to look at hits for "search" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"s" has at least one use.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s23wiki || http://is-root.de/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Buy this domain. || -
|-
| sageswiki || http://sages.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sagewiki || http://sage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| salmesykkel || http://salmesykkel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| samplitude || http://Samplitude.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sandiego || http://sandiego.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sanfranciscowiki || http://sanfrancisco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sca21 || http://sca21.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| schoolcomputing || http://SchoolComputing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| schools || http://schools.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scoop	|| http://scoop.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scouting || http://scouting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| scoutpedia || http://www.scoutpedia.info/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| scratchpad || http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| scriptingwiki || http://scripting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| seapig || http://www.seapig.org/$1 || 0 || Save Money on Shared or Dedicated Hosting || -
|-
| seattlewiki || http://seattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| seattlewireless || http://seattlewireless.net/?$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| seldonshand || http://seldonhand.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| semweb || http://semweb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| senseislibrary || http://senseis.xmp.net/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgcommand || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgwireless || http://sgwireless.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| shakti || http://cgi.algonet.se/htbin/cgiwrap/pgd/ShaktiWiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| shoppingwiki || http://shopping.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| simpsons || http://simpsons.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| sims || http://sims.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sitelibrary || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| skypeme || skype:$1?chat || 0 || (url not tested) || -
|-
| slashdot || http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| slektami || http://slektami.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| smarteam || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| smikipedia || http://www.smikipedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| smw || http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| socialism || http://socialism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sockwiki || http://wiki.socklabs.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| solarconquest	|| http://SolarConquest.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sosdancn || http://wiki.sosdancn.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sourceforge || http://sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sourcewatch || http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| spankart || http://spankingartwiki.animeotk.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sport	|| http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sports || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| squeak || http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| srpstvo || http://Srpstvo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ssb || http://www.ssbwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| stargate || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| startrekwiki || http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| starwars || http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fully operational || -
|-
| storypedia || http://Storypedia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| stpete || http://stpete.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| strategywiki || http://strategywiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| strikiwiki || http://ch.twi.tudelft.nl/~mostert/striki/teststriki.pl?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| suceavacounty || http://Suceava.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| suisse || http://suisse.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sunrisesunset || http://sunrisesunset.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| superstar || http://superstar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || czech
|-
| susning || http://www.susning.nu/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|-
| svgwiki || http://wiki.svg.org/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| svtwiki || http://SVT.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| swtrain || http://train.spottingworld.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s || http://www.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[s:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| search || http://search.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| seeds || http://www.IslandSeeds.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| software || http://software.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| startup || http://startup.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| students || http://students.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 't'===

Round 20. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 't', except for these 3:
* town-titles, townn-titles, translation

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[translation:" or "translation:" so I have to look at hits for "translation" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"town-titles" and "townn-titles" have special characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

"tvtropes" was special. I found 4 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. However, 2 of them did not work, because tvtropes re-organized their articles; and were not fixable, because our interwiki link points to the Main section of tvtropes and they moved their article on NetHack to the VideoGame section. And then I saw that our article on tvtropes had obsolete information, so I updated that article, added references, and so on. At the end of my editing session, there were 0 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, so you can delete the interwiki link now. tvtropes certainly has a way of engaging people for longer than they planned.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| tablature || http://tablature.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| talisman || http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Top Live Casino || already done, expedited deletion
|-
| tardis || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tavi || http://tavi.sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| techcompare || http://TechCompare.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tejo || http://www.tejo.org/vikio/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| terrorwiki || http://www.liberalsagainstterrorism.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || How To Grow Your Small Business Into a Large Business || -
|-
| tesoltaiwan || http://www.tesol-taiwan.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || no wiki, redirects to its main page || -
|-
| thelemapedia || http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| theopedia || http://www.theopedia.com/$1 || 0 || Not found || -
|-
| theowiki || http://www.theowiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_RESET || -
|-
| thinkwiki || http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| tianjin || http://Tianjin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tmbw || http://www.tmbw.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tmnet || http://www.technomanifestos.net/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| tmwiki || http://www.EasyTopicMaps.com/?page=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| toronto || http://toronto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tourism || http://tourism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| trains || http://trains.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transformers || http://tfwiki.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transhumanism || http://transhumanism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tricities || http://huntricitiesde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| turismo || http://www.tejo.org/turismo/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| turriwiki || http://wiki.finfur.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || Fatal exception of type MWException || -
|-
| tvtropes || http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/$1 || 0 || operational || our interwiki link points to Main and their NetHack article is no longer in Main, so we no longer use any tvtropes:xxx interwiki links
|-
| twiki || http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| twistedwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/twisted/$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found on this site. || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| town-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| townn-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| translation || http://translation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'u'===

Round 21. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'u', except for this 1:
* university

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[university:" or "university:" so I have to look at hits for "university" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| uea || http://www.tejo.org/uea/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| ufology || http://ufology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukrailways || http://ukrailways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukroads || http://ukroads.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| uncyclopedia || http://www.uncyclopedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || File not found (404 error) || uncyclopedia moved. I changed all 1 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[uncyclopedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to use direct https to current location.
|-
| universitywikinodewiki || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| unreal || http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ursine || http://ursine.ca/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| usej || http://www.tejo.org/usej/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| utopia || http://Utopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| university || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'v'===
Round 22. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'v'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (v) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| vancouver || http://vancouver.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| vanishedlibrary || http://VanishedLibrary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| vegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| villagearts || http://www.Village-Arts.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| vinismo || http://vinismo.com/en/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| virtualpets || http://VirtualPets.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| virus || http://virus.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| visualworks || http://wiki.cs.uiuc.edu/VisualWorks/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| vlaamseklantenbrussel	|| http://vlaamseklantenbrussel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| voterice || http://voterice.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (v) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'v'.

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'w'===

Round 23. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'w', except for these 12:
* w, why, wiki, wikia, wikibooks, wikicities, wikimedia, wikinfo, wikipedia, wikt, wiktionary, worlds

Some of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[w:" or "w:" so I have to look at hits for "w" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (w) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| w:c:academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| w:c:wowwiki || http://www.wowwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| warpedview || http://www.warpedview.com/mediawiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| warzone2100 || http://warzone2100.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| webdevwikinl || http://www.promo-it.nl/WebDevWiki/index.php?page=$1 || 0 || De website die u probeert te vinden is niet bereikbaar || dutch
|-
| webisodes || http://www.webisodes.org/$1 || 0 || HTTP Status: 404 (not found) || -
|-
| webseitzwiki || http://webseitz.fluxent.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| westport || http://Westport.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| whitewolf || http://whiteWolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiablog || http://blogs.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiaentertainment || http://entertainment.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiagaming || http://gaming.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiahelp || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikianswers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wikible || http://www.wikible.org/en/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| wikicomedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikif1 || http://www.wikif1.org/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| wikifur || http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikihelp || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikihow || http://www.wikihow.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiindex || http://wikiindex.com/$1 || 0 || 504 Gateway Time-out || -
|-
| wikimac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikimon || http://wikimon.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikimoon || http://wikimoon.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikinews || http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiquote || http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikirps || http://www.wikirps.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| wikiscum || http://scum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikisource || http://wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikispecies || http://species.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikitravel || http://wikitravel.org/en/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiversity || http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikivoyage || http://www.wikivoyage.org/general/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiworld || http://WikiWorld.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Parse error: syntax error, unexpected 'Namespace' (T_NAMESPACE), expecting identifier (T_STRING) in /var/www/vhosts/wikiworld.com/httpdocs/wiki/includes/Namespace.php on line 46 || -
|-
| windsurfing || http://windsurfing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wlp || http://wlp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wlug || http://www.wlug.org.nz/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wnc || http://wnc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| worldcitizen || http://worldcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wowwiki || http://www.wowwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (w) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| w || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 6+ known uses|| operational || we have 6+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| why || http://clublet.com/c/c/why?$1 || unsearchable || (domain for sale) || -
|-
| wiki || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| wikia || http://www.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| wikibooks || http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/$1 || 3 || operational || we have 3 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikibooks:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikicities || http://www.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 1 || main page of fandom.com || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikicities:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikimedia || http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| wikinfo || http://www.wikinfo.org/index.php/$1 || 2 || wikinfo exists but rearranged site || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikipedia || http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, many || operational || we have many &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikt || http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikt:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wiktionary || http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/$1 || 3 || operational || we have 3 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wiktionary:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| worlds || http://worlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==

These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::I can undelete pages accordingly if need be, but this seems like a fine enough idea - I don't want it to be ''too'' short, though, just meaty enough that it can serve as a source-diving aid of sorts without getting too into the weeds. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

:: Huh. This sounds like a good idea. They would be little disambiguation articles, with links at the bottom for 3.4.3, 3.6.7, 3.7-dev, and even for variant source code. They wouldn't have line numbers or functions. And if someone writes &lt;nowiki&gt;[[src/mon.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; in a talk page, then the page won't get stale when a new version comes out, people who read source code can figure out that a comment from 2013 was talking about to the 3.4.3 version, especially if there is a link somewhere to a quickie list of release dates. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

This is more complicated than I thought. For example, NetHackWiki has 14 files and 15 redirects for the source file "dogmove.c". I would like to digest the current scheme before making proposals and carrying out sweeps. Interested editors are invited to read and comment on [[User:Furey/How many copies of dogmove.c?]].

Meanwhile, I withdraw this proposal. I'll come back with rewritten proposals if I can get some consensus on my "how many copies" page. I am still fixing pages that link to ''wrong'' source versions.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:15, 26 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>t7w81pcqwvgy40xzdrr3iiwxk16xl60</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>172104</id>
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        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
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      <comment>Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'x', 'y', or 'z'</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="119417">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience.

To give further context: below is a series of interwiki links [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5#Wikia Links|that were slated to be dealt with]] after the move to MediaWiki, but it fell to the wayside for more than a decade before another user decided to draw attention to the matter. Below is a series of lists meant to expedite the process and finish what was meant to be done back in 2011.

--[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC) [Original Message: 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:05, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:18, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

{{resolved top}}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===
Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 13:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'r'===

Round 18. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'r', except for these 4:
* religion, religion-wiki, reviews, roguebasin

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[religion:" or "religion:" so I have to look at hits for "religion" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| radioscanning || http://radioscanning.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| raec || http://www.raec.clacso.edu.ar:8080/raec/Members/raecpedia/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| realestate || http://realestate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reallifesoap || http://rls.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| republiconline || http://RepublicOnline.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| revo || http://purl.org/NET/voko/revo/art/$1.html || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| rfc || https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| roadcycling || http://RoadCycling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| robotbattle || http://RobotBattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rollercoastertycoon || http://rct.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| romhack || http://romhack.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| royalisme || http://Royalisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rpg || http://rpg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ru.townn-titles || http://ru.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| runescape || http://RuneScape.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| russianworld || http://russianworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| religion || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| religion-wiki || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reviews || http://reviews.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| roguebasin || https://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=$1 || unsearchable, 10+ known uses || operational || we have 10+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[roguebasin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 's'===

Round 19. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 's', except for these 6:
* s, search, seeds, software, startup, students

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[search:" or "search:" so I have to look at hits for "search" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"s" has at least one use.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s23wiki || http://is-root.de/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Buy this domain. || -
|-
| sageswiki || http://sages.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sagewiki || http://sage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| salmesykkel || http://salmesykkel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| samplitude || http://Samplitude.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sandiego || http://sandiego.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sanfranciscowiki || http://sanfrancisco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sca21 || http://sca21.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| schoolcomputing || http://SchoolComputing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| schools || http://schools.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scoop	|| http://scoop.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scouting || http://scouting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| scoutpedia || http://www.scoutpedia.info/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| scratchpad || http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| scriptingwiki || http://scripting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| seapig || http://www.seapig.org/$1 || 0 || Save Money on Shared or Dedicated Hosting || -
|-
| seattlewiki || http://seattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| seattlewireless || http://seattlewireless.net/?$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| seldonshand || http://seldonhand.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| semweb || http://semweb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| senseislibrary || http://senseis.xmp.net/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgcommand || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgwireless || http://sgwireless.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| shakti || http://cgi.algonet.se/htbin/cgiwrap/pgd/ShaktiWiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| shoppingwiki || http://shopping.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| simpsons || http://simpsons.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| sims || http://sims.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sitelibrary || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| skypeme || skype:$1?chat || 0 || (url not tested) || -
|-
| slashdot || http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| slektami || http://slektami.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| smarteam || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| smikipedia || http://www.smikipedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| smw || http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| socialism || http://socialism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sockwiki || http://wiki.socklabs.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| solarconquest	|| http://SolarConquest.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sosdancn || http://wiki.sosdancn.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sourceforge || http://sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sourcewatch || http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| spankart || http://spankingartwiki.animeotk.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sport	|| http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sports || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| squeak || http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| srpstvo || http://Srpstvo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ssb || http://www.ssbwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| stargate || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| startrekwiki || http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| starwars || http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fully operational || -
|-
| storypedia || http://Storypedia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| stpete || http://stpete.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| strategywiki || http://strategywiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| strikiwiki || http://ch.twi.tudelft.nl/~mostert/striki/teststriki.pl?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| suceavacounty || http://Suceava.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| suisse || http://suisse.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sunrisesunset || http://sunrisesunset.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| superstar || http://superstar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || czech
|-
| susning || http://www.susning.nu/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|-
| svgwiki || http://wiki.svg.org/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| svtwiki || http://SVT.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| swtrain || http://train.spottingworld.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s || http://www.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[s:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| search || http://search.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| seeds || http://www.IslandSeeds.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| software || http://software.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| startup || http://startup.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| students || http://students.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 't'===

Round 20. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 't', except for these 3:
* town-titles, townn-titles, translation

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[translation:" or "translation:" so I have to look at hits for "translation" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"town-titles" and "townn-titles" have special characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

"tvtropes" was special. I found 4 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. However, 2 of them did not work, because tvtropes re-organized their articles; and were not fixable, because our interwiki link points to the Main section of tvtropes and they moved their article on NetHack to the VideoGame section. And then I saw that our article on tvtropes had obsolete information, so I updated that article, added references, and so on. At the end of my editing session, there were 0 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, so you can delete the interwiki link now. tvtropes certainly has a way of engaging people for longer than they planned.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| tablature || http://tablature.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| talisman || http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Top Live Casino || already done, expedited deletion
|-
| tardis || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tavi || http://tavi.sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| techcompare || http://TechCompare.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tejo || http://www.tejo.org/vikio/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| terrorwiki || http://www.liberalsagainstterrorism.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || How To Grow Your Small Business Into a Large Business || -
|-
| tesoltaiwan || http://www.tesol-taiwan.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || no wiki, redirects to its main page || -
|-
| thelemapedia || http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| theopedia || http://www.theopedia.com/$1 || 0 || Not found || -
|-
| theowiki || http://www.theowiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_RESET || -
|-
| thinkwiki || http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| tianjin || http://Tianjin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tmbw || http://www.tmbw.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tmnet || http://www.technomanifestos.net/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| tmwiki || http://www.EasyTopicMaps.com/?page=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| toronto || http://toronto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tourism || http://tourism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| trains || http://trains.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transformers || http://tfwiki.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transhumanism || http://transhumanism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tricities || http://huntricitiesde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| turismo || http://www.tejo.org/turismo/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| turriwiki || http://wiki.finfur.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || Fatal exception of type MWException || -
|-
| tvtropes || http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/$1 || 0 || operational || our interwiki link points to Main and their NetHack article is no longer in Main, so we no longer use any tvtropes:xxx interwiki links
|-
| twiki || http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| twistedwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/twisted/$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found on this site. || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| town-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| townn-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| translation || http://translation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'u'===

Round 21. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'u', except for this 1:
* university

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[university:" or "university:" so I have to look at hits for "university" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| uea || http://www.tejo.org/uea/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| ufology || http://ufology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukrailways || http://ukrailways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukroads || http://ukroads.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| uncyclopedia || http://www.uncyclopedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || File not found (404 error) || uncyclopedia moved. I changed all 1 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[uncyclopedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to use direct https to current location.
|-
| universitywikinodewiki || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| unreal || http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ursine || http://ursine.ca/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| usej || http://www.tejo.org/usej/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| utopia || http://Utopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| university || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'v'===
Round 22. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'v'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (v) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| vancouver || http://vancouver.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| vanishedlibrary || http://VanishedLibrary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| vegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| villagearts || http://www.Village-Arts.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| vinismo || http://vinismo.com/en/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| virtualpets || http://VirtualPets.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| virus || http://virus.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| visualworks || http://wiki.cs.uiuc.edu/VisualWorks/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| vlaamseklantenbrussel	|| http://vlaamseklantenbrussel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| voterice || http://voterice.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (v) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'v'.

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'w'===

Round 23. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'w', except for these 12:
* w, why, wiki, wikia, wikibooks, wikicities, wikimedia, wikinfo, wikipedia, wikt, wiktionary, worlds

Some of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[w:" or "w:" so I have to look at hits for "w" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (w) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| w:c:academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| w:c:wowwiki || http://www.wowwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| warpedview || http://www.warpedview.com/mediawiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| warzone2100 || http://warzone2100.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| webdevwikinl || http://www.promo-it.nl/WebDevWiki/index.php?page=$1 || 0 || De website die u probeert te vinden is niet bereikbaar || dutch
|-
| webisodes || http://www.webisodes.org/$1 || 0 || HTTP Status: 404 (not found) || -
|-
| webseitzwiki || http://webseitz.fluxent.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| westport || http://Westport.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| whitewolf || http://whiteWolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiablog || http://blogs.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiaentertainment || http://entertainment.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiagaming || http://gaming.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiahelp || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikianswers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wikible || http://www.wikible.org/en/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| wikicomedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikif1 || http://www.wikif1.org/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| wikifur || http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikihelp || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikihow || http://www.wikihow.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiindex || http://wikiindex.com/$1 || 0 || 504 Gateway Time-out || -
|-
| wikimac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikimon || http://wikimon.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikimoon || http://wikimoon.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikinews || http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiquote || http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikirps || http://www.wikirps.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| wikiscum || http://scum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikisource || http://wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikispecies || http://species.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikitravel || http://wikitravel.org/en/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiversity || http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikivoyage || http://www.wikivoyage.org/general/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiworld || http://WikiWorld.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Parse error: syntax error, unexpected 'Namespace' (T_NAMESPACE), expecting identifier (T_STRING) in /var/www/vhosts/wikiworld.com/httpdocs/wiki/includes/Namespace.php on line 46 || -
|-
| windsurfing || http://windsurfing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wlp || http://wlp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wlug || http://www.wlug.org.nz/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wnc || http://wnc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| worldcitizen || http://worldcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wowwiki || http://www.wowwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (w) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| w || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 6+ known uses|| operational || we have 6+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| why || http://clublet.com/c/c/why?$1 || unsearchable || (domain for sale) || -
|-
| wiki || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| wikia || http://www.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| wikibooks || http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/$1 || 3 || operational || we have 3 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikibooks:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikicities || http://www.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 1 || main page of fandom.com || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikicities:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikimedia || http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| wikinfo || http://www.wikinfo.org/index.php/$1 || 2 || wikinfo exists but rearranged site || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikipedia || http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, many || operational || we have many &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikt || http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikt:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wiktionary || http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/$1 || 3 || operational || we have 3 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wiktionary:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| worlds || http://worlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'x', 'y', or 'z'===

Round 24. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'x', 'y', or 'z', except for these 5:
* x-files, zh.anime, zh.mac, zh.wikimac, zzz wiki

These 5 prefixes have special characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (x), (y), and (z) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| xao || http://XAO.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ypsieyeball || http://sknkwrks.dyndns.org:1957/writewiki/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| zeldapendium || http://www.zeldapendium.de/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| zeldawiki || http://zeldawiki.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| zemirot || http://zemirotdatabase.org/view_song.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| zhmusic || http://zh.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| zwiki	|| http://zwiki.org/$1 || 0 || zwiki.org link broken #6 || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (x), (y), and (z) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| x-files || http://x-files.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| zh.anime || http://zh.anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zh.mac || http://zh.mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zh.wikimac || http://zh.mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zzz wiki || http://wiki.zzz.ee/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==

These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::I can undelete pages accordingly if need be, but this seems like a fine enough idea - I don't want it to be ''too'' short, though, just meaty enough that it can serve as a source-diving aid of sorts without getting too into the weeds. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

:: Huh. This sounds like a good idea. They would be little disambiguation articles, with links at the bottom for 3.4.3, 3.6.7, 3.7-dev, and even for variant source code. They wouldn't have line numbers or functions. And if someone writes &lt;nowiki&gt;[[src/mon.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; in a talk page, then the page won't get stale when a new version comes out, people who read source code can figure out that a comment from 2013 was talking about to the 3.4.3 version, especially if there is a link somewhere to a quickie list of release dates. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

This is more complicated than I thought. For example, NetHackWiki has 14 files and 15 redirects for the source file "dogmove.c". I would like to digest the current scheme before making proposals and carrying out sweeps. Interested editors are invited to read and comment on [[User:Furey/How many copies of dogmove.c?]].

Meanwhile, I withdraw this proposal. I'll come back with rewritten proposals if I can get some consensus on my "how many copies" page. I am still fixing pages that link to ''wrong'' source versions.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:15, 26 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>mjbnxmpdm7gf7f44nqkdmca1p6b5g7g</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
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      <comment>Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with other first characters</comment>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="121071">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience.

To give further context: below is a series of interwiki links [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5#Wikia Links|that were slated to be dealt with]] after the move to MediaWiki, but it fell to the wayside for more than a decade before another user decided to draw attention to the matter. Below is a series of lists meant to expedite the process and finish what was meant to be done back in 2011.

--[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC) [Original Message: 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:05, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:18, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

{{resolved top}}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===
Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 13:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'r'===

Round 18. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'r', except for these 4:
* religion, religion-wiki, reviews, roguebasin

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[religion:" or "religion:" so I have to look at hits for "religion" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| radioscanning || http://radioscanning.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| raec || http://www.raec.clacso.edu.ar:8080/raec/Members/raecpedia/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| realestate || http://realestate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reallifesoap || http://rls.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| republiconline || http://RepublicOnline.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| revo || http://purl.org/NET/voko/revo/art/$1.html || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| rfc || https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| roadcycling || http://RoadCycling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| robotbattle || http://RobotBattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rollercoastertycoon || http://rct.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| romhack || http://romhack.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| royalisme || http://Royalisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rpg || http://rpg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ru.townn-titles || http://ru.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| runescape || http://RuneScape.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| russianworld || http://russianworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| religion || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| religion-wiki || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reviews || http://reviews.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| roguebasin || https://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=$1 || unsearchable, 10+ known uses || operational || we have 10+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[roguebasin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 's'===

Round 19. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 's', except for these 6:
* s, search, seeds, software, startup, students

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[search:" or "search:" so I have to look at hits for "search" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"s" has at least one use.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s23wiki || http://is-root.de/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Buy this domain. || -
|-
| sageswiki || http://sages.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sagewiki || http://sage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| salmesykkel || http://salmesykkel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| samplitude || http://Samplitude.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sandiego || http://sandiego.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sanfranciscowiki || http://sanfrancisco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sca21 || http://sca21.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| schoolcomputing || http://SchoolComputing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| schools || http://schools.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scoop	|| http://scoop.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scouting || http://scouting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| scoutpedia || http://www.scoutpedia.info/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| scratchpad || http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| scriptingwiki || http://scripting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| seapig || http://www.seapig.org/$1 || 0 || Save Money on Shared or Dedicated Hosting || -
|-
| seattlewiki || http://seattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| seattlewireless || http://seattlewireless.net/?$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| seldonshand || http://seldonhand.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| semweb || http://semweb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| senseislibrary || http://senseis.xmp.net/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgcommand || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgwireless || http://sgwireless.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| shakti || http://cgi.algonet.se/htbin/cgiwrap/pgd/ShaktiWiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| shoppingwiki || http://shopping.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| simpsons || http://simpsons.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| sims || http://sims.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sitelibrary || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| skypeme || skype:$1?chat || 0 || (url not tested) || -
|-
| slashdot || http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| slektami || http://slektami.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| smarteam || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| smikipedia || http://www.smikipedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| smw || http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| socialism || http://socialism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sockwiki || http://wiki.socklabs.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| solarconquest	|| http://SolarConquest.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sosdancn || http://wiki.sosdancn.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sourceforge || http://sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sourcewatch || http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| spankart || http://spankingartwiki.animeotk.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sport	|| http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sports || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| squeak || http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| srpstvo || http://Srpstvo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ssb || http://www.ssbwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| stargate || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| startrekwiki || http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| starwars || http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fully operational || -
|-
| storypedia || http://Storypedia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| stpete || http://stpete.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| strategywiki || http://strategywiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| strikiwiki || http://ch.twi.tudelft.nl/~mostert/striki/teststriki.pl?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| suceavacounty || http://Suceava.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| suisse || http://suisse.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sunrisesunset || http://sunrisesunset.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| superstar || http://superstar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || czech
|-
| susning || http://www.susning.nu/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|-
| svgwiki || http://wiki.svg.org/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| svtwiki || http://SVT.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| swtrain || http://train.spottingworld.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s || http://www.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[s:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| search || http://search.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| seeds || http://www.IslandSeeds.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| software || http://software.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| startup || http://startup.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| students || http://students.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 't'===

Round 20. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 't', except for these 3:
* town-titles, townn-titles, translation

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[translation:" or "translation:" so I have to look at hits for "translation" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"town-titles" and "townn-titles" have special characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

"tvtropes" was special. I found 4 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. However, 2 of them did not work, because tvtropes re-organized their articles; and were not fixable, because our interwiki link points to the Main section of tvtropes and they moved their article on NetHack to the VideoGame section. And then I saw that our article on tvtropes had obsolete information, so I updated that article, added references, and so on. At the end of my editing session, there were 0 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, so you can delete the interwiki link now. tvtropes certainly has a way of engaging people for longer than they planned.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| tablature || http://tablature.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| talisman || http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Top Live Casino || already done, expedited deletion
|-
| tardis || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tavi || http://tavi.sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| techcompare || http://TechCompare.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tejo || http://www.tejo.org/vikio/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| terrorwiki || http://www.liberalsagainstterrorism.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || How To Grow Your Small Business Into a Large Business || -
|-
| tesoltaiwan || http://www.tesol-taiwan.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || no wiki, redirects to its main page || -
|-
| thelemapedia || http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| theopedia || http://www.theopedia.com/$1 || 0 || Not found || -
|-
| theowiki || http://www.theowiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_RESET || -
|-
| thinkwiki || http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| tianjin || http://Tianjin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tmbw || http://www.tmbw.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tmnet || http://www.technomanifestos.net/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| tmwiki || http://www.EasyTopicMaps.com/?page=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| toronto || http://toronto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tourism || http://tourism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| trains || http://trains.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transformers || http://tfwiki.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transhumanism || http://transhumanism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tricities || http://huntricitiesde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| turismo || http://www.tejo.org/turismo/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| turriwiki || http://wiki.finfur.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || Fatal exception of type MWException || -
|-
| tvtropes || http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/$1 || 0 || operational || our interwiki link points to Main and their NetHack article is no longer in Main, so we no longer use any tvtropes:xxx interwiki links
|-
| twiki || http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| twistedwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/twisted/$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found on this site. || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| town-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| townn-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| translation || http://translation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'u'===

Round 21. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'u', except for this 1:
* university

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[university:" or "university:" so I have to look at hits for "university" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| uea || http://www.tejo.org/uea/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| ufology || http://ufology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukrailways || http://ukrailways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukroads || http://ukroads.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| uncyclopedia || http://www.uncyclopedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || File not found (404 error) || uncyclopedia moved. I changed all 1 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[uncyclopedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to use direct https to current location.
|-
| universitywikinodewiki || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| unreal || http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ursine || http://ursine.ca/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| usej || http://www.tejo.org/usej/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| utopia || http://Utopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| university || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'v'===
Round 22. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'v'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (v) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| vancouver || http://vancouver.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| vanishedlibrary || http://VanishedLibrary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| vegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| villagearts || http://www.Village-Arts.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| vinismo || http://vinismo.com/en/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| virtualpets || http://VirtualPets.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| virus || http://virus.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| visualworks || http://wiki.cs.uiuc.edu/VisualWorks/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| vlaamseklantenbrussel	|| http://vlaamseklantenbrussel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| voterice || http://voterice.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (v) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'v'.

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'w'===

Round 23. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'w', except for these 12:
* w, why, wiki, wikia, wikibooks, wikicities, wikimedia, wikinfo, wikipedia, wikt, wiktionary, worlds

Some of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[w:" or "w:" so I have to look at hits for "w" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (w) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| w:c:academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| w:c:wowwiki || http://www.wowwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| warpedview || http://www.warpedview.com/mediawiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| warzone2100 || http://warzone2100.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| webdevwikinl || http://www.promo-it.nl/WebDevWiki/index.php?page=$1 || 0 || De website die u probeert te vinden is niet bereikbaar || dutch
|-
| webisodes || http://www.webisodes.org/$1 || 0 || HTTP Status: 404 (not found) || -
|-
| webseitzwiki || http://webseitz.fluxent.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| westport || http://Westport.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| whitewolf || http://whiteWolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiablog || http://blogs.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiaentertainment || http://entertainment.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiagaming || http://gaming.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiahelp || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikianswers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wikible || http://www.wikible.org/en/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| wikicomedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikif1 || http://www.wikif1.org/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| wikifur || http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikihelp || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikihow || http://www.wikihow.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiindex || http://wikiindex.com/$1 || 0 || 504 Gateway Time-out || -
|-
| wikimac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikimon || http://wikimon.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikimoon || http://wikimoon.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikinews || http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiquote || http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikirps || http://www.wikirps.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| wikiscum || http://scum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikisource || http://wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikispecies || http://species.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikitravel || http://wikitravel.org/en/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiversity || http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikivoyage || http://www.wikivoyage.org/general/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiworld || http://WikiWorld.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Parse error: syntax error, unexpected 'Namespace' (T_NAMESPACE), expecting identifier (T_STRING) in /var/www/vhosts/wikiworld.com/httpdocs/wiki/includes/Namespace.php on line 46 || -
|-
| windsurfing || http://windsurfing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wlp || http://wlp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wlug || http://www.wlug.org.nz/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wnc || http://wnc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| worldcitizen || http://worldcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wowwiki || http://www.wowwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (w) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| w || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 6+ known uses|| operational || we have 6+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| why || http://clublet.com/c/c/why?$1 || unsearchable || (domain for sale) || -
|-
| wiki || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| wikia || http://www.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| wikibooks || http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/$1 || 3 || operational || we have 3 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikibooks:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikicities || http://www.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 1 || main page of fandom.com || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikicities:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikimedia || http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| wikinfo || http://www.wikinfo.org/index.php/$1 || 2 || wikinfo exists but rearranged site || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikipedia || http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, many || operational || we have many &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikt || http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikt:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wiktionary || http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/$1 || 3 || operational || we have 3 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wiktionary:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| worlds || http://worlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'x', 'y', or 'z'===

Round 24. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'x', 'y', or 'z', except for these 5:
* x-files, zh.anime, zh.mac, zh.wikimac, zzz wiki

These 5 prefixes have special characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (x), (y), and (z) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| xao || http://XAO.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ypsieyeball || http://sknkwrks.dyndns.org:1957/writewiki/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| zeldapendium || http://www.zeldapendium.de/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| zeldawiki || http://zeldawiki.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| zemirot || http://zemirotdatabase.org/view_song.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| zhmusic || http://zh.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| zwiki	|| http://zwiki.org/$1 || 0 || zwiki.org link broken #6 || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (x), (y), and (z) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| x-files || http://x-files.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| zh.anime || http://zh.anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zh.mac || http://zh.mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zh.wikimac || http://zh.mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zzz wiki || http://wiki.zzz.ee/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with other first characters===

Round 25. This is the final round.

I would like to request that an admin delete many interwiki entries starting with other first characters except for these 2:
* Cache, Wikihack

Some of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[Cache:" or "Cache:" so I have to look at hits for "Cache" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (other first character) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| 3dgame || http://3dgame.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| AwarenessWiki || http://taoriver.net/aware/$1 || 0 || ERR_ADDRESS_UNREACHABLE || -
|-
| Legowiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Lego-Robotics/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (other first character) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| Cache	|| http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| Wikihack || http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:$1 || unsearchable, 2+ known uses || operational || we have 2+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Wikihack:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==

These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::I can undelete pages accordingly if need be, but this seems like a fine enough idea - I don't want it to be ''too'' short, though, just meaty enough that it can serve as a source-diving aid of sorts without getting too into the weeds. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

:: Huh. This sounds like a good idea. They would be little disambiguation articles, with links at the bottom for 3.4.3, 3.6.7, 3.7-dev, and even for variant source code. They wouldn't have line numbers or functions. And if someone writes &lt;nowiki&gt;[[src/mon.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; in a talk page, then the page won't get stale when a new version comes out, people who read source code can figure out that a comment from 2013 was talking about to the 3.4.3 version, especially if there is a link somewhere to a quickie list of release dates. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

This is more complicated than I thought. For example, NetHackWiki has 14 files and 15 redirects for the source file "dogmove.c". I would like to digest the current scheme before making proposals and carrying out sweeps. Interested editors are invited to read and comment on [[User:Furey/How many copies of dogmove.c?]].

Meanwhile, I withdraw this proposal. I'll come back with rewritten proposals if I can get some consensus on my "how many copies" page. I am still fixing pages that link to ''wrong'' source versions.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:15, 26 June 2024 (UTC)</text>
      <sha1>8bfy57qpgytwauzxsakhf2ivz2106es</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>172114</id>
      <parentid>172113</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-26T17:55:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as Dungeon.h , attrib.c, and Arch.des */ resolved. let me know if i used the resolved tags okay.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="121107">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience.

To give further context: below is a series of interwiki links [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5#Wikia Links|that were slated to be dealt with]] after the move to MediaWiki, but it fell to the wayside for more than a decade before another user decided to draw attention to the matter. Below is a series of lists meant to expedite the process and finish what was meant to be done back in 2011.

--[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC) [Original Message: 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:05, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:18, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

{{resolved top}}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===
Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 13:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'r'===

Round 18. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'r', except for these 4:
* religion, religion-wiki, reviews, roguebasin

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[religion:" or "religion:" so I have to look at hits for "religion" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| radioscanning || http://radioscanning.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| raec || http://www.raec.clacso.edu.ar:8080/raec/Members/raecpedia/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| realestate || http://realestate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reallifesoap || http://rls.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| republiconline || http://RepublicOnline.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| revo || http://purl.org/NET/voko/revo/art/$1.html || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| rfc || https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| roadcycling || http://RoadCycling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| robotbattle || http://RobotBattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rollercoastertycoon || http://rct.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| romhack || http://romhack.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| royalisme || http://Royalisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rpg || http://rpg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ru.townn-titles || http://ru.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| runescape || http://RuneScape.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| russianworld || http://russianworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| religion || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| religion-wiki || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reviews || http://reviews.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| roguebasin || https://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=$1 || unsearchable, 10+ known uses || operational || we have 10+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[roguebasin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 's'===

Round 19. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 's', except for these 6:
* s, search, seeds, software, startup, students

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[search:" or "search:" so I have to look at hits for "search" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"s" has at least one use.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s23wiki || http://is-root.de/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Buy this domain. || -
|-
| sageswiki || http://sages.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sagewiki || http://sage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| salmesykkel || http://salmesykkel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| samplitude || http://Samplitude.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sandiego || http://sandiego.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sanfranciscowiki || http://sanfrancisco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sca21 || http://sca21.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| schoolcomputing || http://SchoolComputing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| schools || http://schools.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scoop	|| http://scoop.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scouting || http://scouting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| scoutpedia || http://www.scoutpedia.info/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| scratchpad || http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| scriptingwiki || http://scripting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| seapig || http://www.seapig.org/$1 || 0 || Save Money on Shared or Dedicated Hosting || -
|-
| seattlewiki || http://seattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| seattlewireless || http://seattlewireless.net/?$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| seldonshand || http://seldonhand.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| semweb || http://semweb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| senseislibrary || http://senseis.xmp.net/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgcommand || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgwireless || http://sgwireless.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| shakti || http://cgi.algonet.se/htbin/cgiwrap/pgd/ShaktiWiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| shoppingwiki || http://shopping.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| simpsons || http://simpsons.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| sims || http://sims.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sitelibrary || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| skypeme || skype:$1?chat || 0 || (url not tested) || -
|-
| slashdot || http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| slektami || http://slektami.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| smarteam || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| smikipedia || http://www.smikipedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| smw || http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| socialism || http://socialism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sockwiki || http://wiki.socklabs.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| solarconquest	|| http://SolarConquest.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sosdancn || http://wiki.sosdancn.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sourceforge || http://sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sourcewatch || http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| spankart || http://spankingartwiki.animeotk.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sport	|| http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sports || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| squeak || http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| srpstvo || http://Srpstvo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ssb || http://www.ssbwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| stargate || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| startrekwiki || http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| starwars || http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fully operational || -
|-
| storypedia || http://Storypedia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| stpete || http://stpete.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| strategywiki || http://strategywiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| strikiwiki || http://ch.twi.tudelft.nl/~mostert/striki/teststriki.pl?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| suceavacounty || http://Suceava.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| suisse || http://suisse.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sunrisesunset || http://sunrisesunset.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| superstar || http://superstar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || czech
|-
| susning || http://www.susning.nu/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|-
| svgwiki || http://wiki.svg.org/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| svtwiki || http://SVT.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| swtrain || http://train.spottingworld.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s || http://www.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[s:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| search || http://search.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| seeds || http://www.IslandSeeds.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| software || http://software.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| startup || http://startup.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| students || http://students.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 't'===

Round 20. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 't', except for these 3:
* town-titles, townn-titles, translation

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[translation:" or "translation:" so I have to look at hits for "translation" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"town-titles" and "townn-titles" have special characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

"tvtropes" was special. I found 4 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. However, 2 of them did not work, because tvtropes re-organized their articles; and were not fixable, because our interwiki link points to the Main section of tvtropes and they moved their article on NetHack to the VideoGame section. And then I saw that our article on tvtropes had obsolete information, so I updated that article, added references, and so on. At the end of my editing session, there were 0 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, so you can delete the interwiki link now. tvtropes certainly has a way of engaging people for longer than they planned.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| tablature || http://tablature.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| talisman || http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Top Live Casino || already done, expedited deletion
|-
| tardis || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tavi || http://tavi.sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| techcompare || http://TechCompare.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tejo || http://www.tejo.org/vikio/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| terrorwiki || http://www.liberalsagainstterrorism.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || How To Grow Your Small Business Into a Large Business || -
|-
| tesoltaiwan || http://www.tesol-taiwan.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || no wiki, redirects to its main page || -
|-
| thelemapedia || http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| theopedia || http://www.theopedia.com/$1 || 0 || Not found || -
|-
| theowiki || http://www.theowiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_RESET || -
|-
| thinkwiki || http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| tianjin || http://Tianjin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tmbw || http://www.tmbw.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tmnet || http://www.technomanifestos.net/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| tmwiki || http://www.EasyTopicMaps.com/?page=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| toronto || http://toronto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tourism || http://tourism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| trains || http://trains.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transformers || http://tfwiki.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transhumanism || http://transhumanism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tricities || http://huntricitiesde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| turismo || http://www.tejo.org/turismo/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| turriwiki || http://wiki.finfur.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || Fatal exception of type MWException || -
|-
| tvtropes || http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/$1 || 0 || operational || our interwiki link points to Main and their NetHack article is no longer in Main, so we no longer use any tvtropes:xxx interwiki links
|-
| twiki || http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| twistedwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/twisted/$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found on this site. || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| town-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| townn-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| translation || http://translation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'u'===

Round 21. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'u', except for this 1:
* university

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[university:" or "university:" so I have to look at hits for "university" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| uea || http://www.tejo.org/uea/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| ufology || http://ufology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukrailways || http://ukrailways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukroads || http://ukroads.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| uncyclopedia || http://www.uncyclopedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || File not found (404 error) || uncyclopedia moved. I changed all 1 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[uncyclopedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to use direct https to current location.
|-
| universitywikinodewiki || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| unreal || http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ursine || http://ursine.ca/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| usej || http://www.tejo.org/usej/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| utopia || http://Utopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| university || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'v'===
Round 22. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'v'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (v) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| vancouver || http://vancouver.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| vanishedlibrary || http://VanishedLibrary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| vegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| villagearts || http://www.Village-Arts.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| vinismo || http://vinismo.com/en/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| virtualpets || http://VirtualPets.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| virus || http://virus.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| visualworks || http://wiki.cs.uiuc.edu/VisualWorks/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| vlaamseklantenbrussel	|| http://vlaamseklantenbrussel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| voterice || http://voterice.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (v) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'v'.

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'w'===

Round 23. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'w', except for these 12:
* w, why, wiki, wikia, wikibooks, wikicities, wikimedia, wikinfo, wikipedia, wikt, wiktionary, worlds

Some of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[w:" or "w:" so I have to look at hits for "w" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (w) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| w:c:academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| w:c:wowwiki || http://www.wowwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| warpedview || http://www.warpedview.com/mediawiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| warzone2100 || http://warzone2100.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| webdevwikinl || http://www.promo-it.nl/WebDevWiki/index.php?page=$1 || 0 || De website die u probeert te vinden is niet bereikbaar || dutch
|-
| webisodes || http://www.webisodes.org/$1 || 0 || HTTP Status: 404 (not found) || -
|-
| webseitzwiki || http://webseitz.fluxent.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| westport || http://Westport.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| whitewolf || http://whiteWolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiablog || http://blogs.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiaentertainment || http://entertainment.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiagaming || http://gaming.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiahelp || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikianswers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wikible || http://www.wikible.org/en/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| wikicomedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikif1 || http://www.wikif1.org/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| wikifur || http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikihelp || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikihow || http://www.wikihow.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiindex || http://wikiindex.com/$1 || 0 || 504 Gateway Time-out || -
|-
| wikimac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikimon || http://wikimon.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikimoon || http://wikimoon.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikinews || http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiquote || http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikirps || http://www.wikirps.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| wikiscum || http://scum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikisource || http://wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikispecies || http://species.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikitravel || http://wikitravel.org/en/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiversity || http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikivoyage || http://www.wikivoyage.org/general/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiworld || http://WikiWorld.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Parse error: syntax error, unexpected 'Namespace' (T_NAMESPACE), expecting identifier (T_STRING) in /var/www/vhosts/wikiworld.com/httpdocs/wiki/includes/Namespace.php on line 46 || -
|-
| windsurfing || http://windsurfing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wlp || http://wlp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wlug || http://www.wlug.org.nz/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wnc || http://wnc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| worldcitizen || http://worldcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wowwiki || http://www.wowwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (w) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| w || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 6+ known uses|| operational || we have 6+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| why || http://clublet.com/c/c/why?$1 || unsearchable || (domain for sale) || -
|-
| wiki || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| wikia || http://www.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| wikibooks || http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/$1 || 3 || operational || we have 3 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikibooks:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikicities || http://www.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 1 || main page of fandom.com || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikicities:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikimedia || http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| wikinfo || http://www.wikinfo.org/index.php/$1 || 2 || wikinfo exists but rearranged site || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikipedia || http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, many || operational || we have many &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikt || http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikt:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wiktionary || http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/$1 || 3 || operational || we have 3 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wiktionary:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| worlds || http://worlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'x', 'y', or 'z'===

Round 24. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'x', 'y', or 'z', except for these 5:
* x-files, zh.anime, zh.mac, zh.wikimac, zzz wiki

These 5 prefixes have special characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (x), (y), and (z) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| xao || http://XAO.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ypsieyeball || http://sknkwrks.dyndns.org:1957/writewiki/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| zeldapendium || http://www.zeldapendium.de/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| zeldawiki || http://zeldawiki.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| zemirot || http://zemirotdatabase.org/view_song.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| zhmusic || http://zh.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| zwiki	|| http://zwiki.org/$1 || 0 || zwiki.org link broken #6 || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (x), (y), and (z) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| x-files || http://x-files.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| zh.anime || http://zh.anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zh.mac || http://zh.mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zh.wikimac || http://zh.mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zzz wiki || http://wiki.zzz.ee/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with other first characters===

Round 25. This is the final round.

I would like to request that an admin delete many interwiki entries starting with other first characters except for these 2:
* Cache, Wikihack

Some of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[Cache:" or "Cache:" so I have to look at hits for "Cache" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (other first character) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| 3dgame || http://3dgame.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| AwarenessWiki || http://taoriver.net/aware/$1 || 0 || ERR_ADDRESS_UNREACHABLE || -
|-
| Legowiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Lego-Robotics/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (other first character) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| Cache	|| http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| Wikihack || http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:$1 || unsearchable, 2+ known uses || operational || we have 2+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Wikihack:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==
{{resolved top}}
These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::I can undelete pages accordingly if need be, but this seems like a fine enough idea - I don't want it to be ''too'' short, though, just meaty enough that it can serve as a source-diving aid of sorts without getting too into the weeds. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

:: Huh. This sounds like a good idea. They would be little disambiguation articles, with links at the bottom for 3.4.3, 3.6.7, 3.7-dev, and even for variant source code. They wouldn't have line numbers or functions. And if someone writes &lt;nowiki&gt;[[src/mon.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; in a talk page, then the page won't get stale when a new version comes out, people who read source code can figure out that a comment from 2013 was talking about to the 3.4.3 version, especially if there is a link somewhere to a quickie list of release dates. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

This is more complicated than I thought. For example, NetHackWiki has 14 files and 15 redirects for the source file "dogmove.c". I would like to digest the current scheme before making proposals and carrying out sweeps. Interested editors are invited to read and comment on [[User:Furey/How many copies of dogmove.c?]].

Meanwhile, I withdraw this proposal. I'll come back with rewritten proposals if I can get some consensus on my "how many copies" page. I am still fixing pages that link to ''wrong'' source versions.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:15, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}</text>
      <sha1>hr7oaqqw9ux0rraq8ptduhmrtenf71g</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>172598</id>
      <parentid>172114</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-28T16:15:16Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Umbire the Phantom</username>
        <id>4001279</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'x', 'y', or 'z' */ comment on zeldawiki</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="121522">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience.

To give further context: below is a series of interwiki links [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5#Wikia Links|that were slated to be dealt with]] after the move to MediaWiki, but it fell to the wayside for more than a decade before another user decided to draw attention to the matter. Below is a series of lists meant to expedite the process and finish what was meant to be done back in 2011.

--[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC) [Original Message: 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:05, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:18, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

{{resolved top}}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===
Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 13:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'r'===

Round 18. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'r', except for these 4:
* religion, religion-wiki, reviews, roguebasin

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[religion:" or "religion:" so I have to look at hits for "religion" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| radioscanning || http://radioscanning.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| raec || http://www.raec.clacso.edu.ar:8080/raec/Members/raecpedia/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| realestate || http://realestate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reallifesoap || http://rls.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| republiconline || http://RepublicOnline.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| revo || http://purl.org/NET/voko/revo/art/$1.html || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| rfc || https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| roadcycling || http://RoadCycling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| robotbattle || http://RobotBattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rollercoastertycoon || http://rct.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| romhack || http://romhack.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| royalisme || http://Royalisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rpg || http://rpg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ru.townn-titles || http://ru.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| runescape || http://RuneScape.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| russianworld || http://russianworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| religion || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| religion-wiki || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reviews || http://reviews.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| roguebasin || https://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=$1 || unsearchable, 10+ known uses || operational || we have 10+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[roguebasin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 's'===

Round 19. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 's', except for these 6:
* s, search, seeds, software, startup, students

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[search:" or "search:" so I have to look at hits for "search" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"s" has at least one use.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s23wiki || http://is-root.de/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Buy this domain. || -
|-
| sageswiki || http://sages.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sagewiki || http://sage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| salmesykkel || http://salmesykkel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| samplitude || http://Samplitude.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sandiego || http://sandiego.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sanfranciscowiki || http://sanfrancisco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sca21 || http://sca21.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| schoolcomputing || http://SchoolComputing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| schools || http://schools.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scoop	|| http://scoop.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scouting || http://scouting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| scoutpedia || http://www.scoutpedia.info/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| scratchpad || http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| scriptingwiki || http://scripting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| seapig || http://www.seapig.org/$1 || 0 || Save Money on Shared or Dedicated Hosting || -
|-
| seattlewiki || http://seattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| seattlewireless || http://seattlewireless.net/?$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| seldonshand || http://seldonhand.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| semweb || http://semweb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| senseislibrary || http://senseis.xmp.net/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgcommand || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgwireless || http://sgwireless.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| shakti || http://cgi.algonet.se/htbin/cgiwrap/pgd/ShaktiWiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| shoppingwiki || http://shopping.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| simpsons || http://simpsons.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| sims || http://sims.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sitelibrary || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| skypeme || skype:$1?chat || 0 || (url not tested) || -
|-
| slashdot || http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| slektami || http://slektami.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| smarteam || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| smikipedia || http://www.smikipedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| smw || http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| socialism || http://socialism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sockwiki || http://wiki.socklabs.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| solarconquest	|| http://SolarConquest.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sosdancn || http://wiki.sosdancn.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sourceforge || http://sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sourcewatch || http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| spankart || http://spankingartwiki.animeotk.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sport	|| http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sports || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| squeak || http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| srpstvo || http://Srpstvo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ssb || http://www.ssbwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| stargate || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| startrekwiki || http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| starwars || http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fully operational || -
|-
| storypedia || http://Storypedia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| stpete || http://stpete.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| strategywiki || http://strategywiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| strikiwiki || http://ch.twi.tudelft.nl/~mostert/striki/teststriki.pl?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| suceavacounty || http://Suceava.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| suisse || http://suisse.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sunrisesunset || http://sunrisesunset.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| superstar || http://superstar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || czech
|-
| susning || http://www.susning.nu/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|-
| svgwiki || http://wiki.svg.org/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| svtwiki || http://SVT.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| swtrain || http://train.spottingworld.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s || http://www.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[s:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| search || http://search.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| seeds || http://www.IslandSeeds.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| software || http://software.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| startup || http://startup.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| students || http://students.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 't'===

Round 20. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 't', except for these 3:
* town-titles, townn-titles, translation

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[translation:" or "translation:" so I have to look at hits for "translation" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"town-titles" and "townn-titles" have special characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

"tvtropes" was special. I found 4 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. However, 2 of them did not work, because tvtropes re-organized their articles; and were not fixable, because our interwiki link points to the Main section of tvtropes and they moved their article on NetHack to the VideoGame section. And then I saw that our article on tvtropes had obsolete information, so I updated that article, added references, and so on. At the end of my editing session, there were 0 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, so you can delete the interwiki link now. tvtropes certainly has a way of engaging people for longer than they planned.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| tablature || http://tablature.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| talisman || http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Top Live Casino || already done, expedited deletion
|-
| tardis || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tavi || http://tavi.sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| techcompare || http://TechCompare.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tejo || http://www.tejo.org/vikio/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| terrorwiki || http://www.liberalsagainstterrorism.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || How To Grow Your Small Business Into a Large Business || -
|-
| tesoltaiwan || http://www.tesol-taiwan.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || no wiki, redirects to its main page || -
|-
| thelemapedia || http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| theopedia || http://www.theopedia.com/$1 || 0 || Not found || -
|-
| theowiki || http://www.theowiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_RESET || -
|-
| thinkwiki || http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| tianjin || http://Tianjin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tmbw || http://www.tmbw.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tmnet || http://www.technomanifestos.net/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| tmwiki || http://www.EasyTopicMaps.com/?page=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| toronto || http://toronto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tourism || http://tourism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| trains || http://trains.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transformers || http://tfwiki.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transhumanism || http://transhumanism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tricities || http://huntricitiesde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| turismo || http://www.tejo.org/turismo/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| turriwiki || http://wiki.finfur.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || Fatal exception of type MWException || -
|-
| tvtropes || http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/$1 || 0 || operational || our interwiki link points to Main and their NetHack article is no longer in Main, so we no longer use any tvtropes:xxx interwiki links
|-
| twiki || http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| twistedwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/twisted/$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found on this site. || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| town-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| townn-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| translation || http://translation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'u'===

Round 21. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'u', except for this 1:
* university

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[university:" or "university:" so I have to look at hits for "university" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| uea || http://www.tejo.org/uea/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| ufology || http://ufology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukrailways || http://ukrailways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukroads || http://ukroads.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| uncyclopedia || http://www.uncyclopedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || File not found (404 error) || uncyclopedia moved. I changed all 1 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[uncyclopedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to use direct https to current location.
|-
| universitywikinodewiki || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| unreal || http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ursine || http://ursine.ca/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| usej || http://www.tejo.org/usej/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| utopia || http://Utopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| university || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'v'===
Round 22. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'v'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (v) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| vancouver || http://vancouver.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| vanishedlibrary || http://VanishedLibrary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| vegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| villagearts || http://www.Village-Arts.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| vinismo || http://vinismo.com/en/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| virtualpets || http://VirtualPets.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| virus || http://virus.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| visualworks || http://wiki.cs.uiuc.edu/VisualWorks/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| vlaamseklantenbrussel	|| http://vlaamseklantenbrussel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| voterice || http://voterice.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (v) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'v'.

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'w'===

Round 23. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'w', except for these 12:
* w, why, wiki, wikia, wikibooks, wikicities, wikimedia, wikinfo, wikipedia, wikt, wiktionary, worlds

Some of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[w:" or "w:" so I have to look at hits for "w" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (w) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| w:c:academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| w:c:wowwiki || http://www.wowwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| warpedview || http://www.warpedview.com/mediawiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| warzone2100 || http://warzone2100.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| webdevwikinl || http://www.promo-it.nl/WebDevWiki/index.php?page=$1 || 0 || De website die u probeert te vinden is niet bereikbaar || dutch
|-
| webisodes || http://www.webisodes.org/$1 || 0 || HTTP Status: 404 (not found) || -
|-
| webseitzwiki || http://webseitz.fluxent.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| westport || http://Westport.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| whitewolf || http://whiteWolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiablog || http://blogs.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiaentertainment || http://entertainment.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiagaming || http://gaming.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiahelp || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikianswers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wikible || http://www.wikible.org/en/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| wikicomedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikif1 || http://www.wikif1.org/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| wikifur || http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikihelp || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikihow || http://www.wikihow.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiindex || http://wikiindex.com/$1 || 0 || 504 Gateway Time-out || -
|-
| wikimac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikimon || http://wikimon.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikimoon || http://wikimoon.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikinews || http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiquote || http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikirps || http://www.wikirps.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| wikiscum || http://scum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikisource || http://wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikispecies || http://species.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikitravel || http://wikitravel.org/en/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiversity || http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikivoyage || http://www.wikivoyage.org/general/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiworld || http://WikiWorld.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Parse error: syntax error, unexpected 'Namespace' (T_NAMESPACE), expecting identifier (T_STRING) in /var/www/vhosts/wikiworld.com/httpdocs/wiki/includes/Namespace.php on line 46 || -
|-
| windsurfing || http://windsurfing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wlp || http://wlp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wlug || http://www.wlug.org.nz/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wnc || http://wnc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| worldcitizen || http://worldcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wowwiki || http://www.wowwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (w) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| w || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 6+ known uses|| operational || we have 6+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| why || http://clublet.com/c/c/why?$1 || unsearchable || (domain for sale) || -
|-
| wiki || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| wikia || http://www.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| wikibooks || http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/$1 || 3 || operational || we have 3 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikibooks:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikicities || http://www.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 1 || main page of fandom.com || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikicities:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikimedia || http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| wikinfo || http://www.wikinfo.org/index.php/$1 || 2 || wikinfo exists but rearranged site || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikipedia || http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, many || operational || we have many &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikt || http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikt:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wiktionary || http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/$1 || 3 || operational || we have 3 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wiktionary:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| worlds || http://worlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'x', 'y', or 'z'===

Round 24. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'x', 'y', or 'z', except for these 5:
* x-files, zh.anime, zh.mac, zh.wikimac, zzz wiki

These 5 prefixes have special characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (x), (y), and (z) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| xao || http://XAO.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ypsieyeball || http://sknkwrks.dyndns.org:1957/writewiki/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| zeldapendium || http://www.zeldapendium.de/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| zeldawiki || http://zeldawiki.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| zemirot || http://zemirotdatabase.org/view_song.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| zhmusic || http://zh.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| zwiki	|| http://zwiki.org/$1 || 0 || zwiki.org link broken #6 || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (x), (y), and (z) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| x-files || http://x-files.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| zh.anime || http://zh.anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zh.mac || http://zh.mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zh.wikimac || http://zh.mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zzz wiki || http://wiki.zzz.ee/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|}

:In regards to specifically Zeldawiki, I think that one is likely to be worth keeping because we do have at least a few Zelda-inspired monsters, possibly among other stuff (see [[garo]], which also need a presentability pass but there you go). The rest of the "delete" table can go without contest. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 16:15, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with other first characters===

Round 25. This is the final round.

I would like to request that an admin delete many interwiki entries starting with other first characters except for these 2:
* Cache, Wikihack

Some of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[Cache:" or "Cache:" so I have to look at hits for "Cache" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (other first character) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| 3dgame || http://3dgame.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| AwarenessWiki || http://taoriver.net/aware/$1 || 0 || ERR_ADDRESS_UNREACHABLE || -
|-
| Legowiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Lego-Robotics/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (other first character) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| Cache	|| http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| Wikihack || http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:$1 || unsearchable, 2+ known uses || operational || we have 2+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Wikihack:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==
{{resolved top}}
These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::I can undelete pages accordingly if need be, but this seems like a fine enough idea - I don't want it to be ''too'' short, though, just meaty enough that it can serve as a source-diving aid of sorts without getting too into the weeds. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

:: Huh. This sounds like a good idea. They would be little disambiguation articles, with links at the bottom for 3.4.3, 3.6.7, 3.7-dev, and even for variant source code. They wouldn't have line numbers or functions. And if someone writes &lt;nowiki&gt;[[src/mon.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; in a talk page, then the page won't get stale when a new version comes out, people who read source code can figure out that a comment from 2013 was talking about to the 3.4.3 version, especially if there is a link somewhere to a quickie list of release dates. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

This is more complicated than I thought. For example, NetHackWiki has 14 files and 15 redirects for the source file "dogmove.c". I would like to digest the current scheme before making proposals and carrying out sweeps. Interested editors are invited to read and comment on [[User:Furey/How many copies of dogmove.c?]].

Meanwhile, I withdraw this proposal. I'll come back with rewritten proposals if I can get some consensus on my "how many copies" page. I am still fixing pages that link to ''wrong'' source versions.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:15, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}</text>
      <sha1>fnh0dc48mj6ru5cj9nsass0klzabf2x</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>172600</id>
      <parentid>172598</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-28T16:16:57Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Umbire the Phantom</username>
        <id>4001279</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'v' */ done</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="121687">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience.

To give further context: below is a series of interwiki links [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5#Wikia Links|that were slated to be dealt with]] after the move to MediaWiki, but it fell to the wayside for more than a decade before another user decided to draw attention to the matter. Below is a series of lists meant to expedite the process and finish what was meant to be done back in 2011.

--[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC) [Original Message: 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:05, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:18, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

{{resolved top}}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===
Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 13:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'r'===

Round 18. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'r', except for these 4:
* religion, religion-wiki, reviews, roguebasin

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[religion:" or "religion:" so I have to look at hits for "religion" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| radioscanning || http://radioscanning.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| raec || http://www.raec.clacso.edu.ar:8080/raec/Members/raecpedia/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| realestate || http://realestate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reallifesoap || http://rls.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| republiconline || http://RepublicOnline.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| revo || http://purl.org/NET/voko/revo/art/$1.html || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| rfc || https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| roadcycling || http://RoadCycling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| robotbattle || http://RobotBattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rollercoastertycoon || http://rct.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| romhack || http://romhack.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| royalisme || http://Royalisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rpg || http://rpg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ru.townn-titles || http://ru.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| runescape || http://RuneScape.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| russianworld || http://russianworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| religion || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| religion-wiki || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reviews || http://reviews.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| roguebasin || https://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=$1 || unsearchable, 10+ known uses || operational || we have 10+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[roguebasin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 's'===

Round 19. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 's', except for these 6:
* s, search, seeds, software, startup, students

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[search:" or "search:" so I have to look at hits for "search" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"s" has at least one use.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s23wiki || http://is-root.de/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Buy this domain. || -
|-
| sageswiki || http://sages.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sagewiki || http://sage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| salmesykkel || http://salmesykkel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| samplitude || http://Samplitude.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sandiego || http://sandiego.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sanfranciscowiki || http://sanfrancisco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sca21 || http://sca21.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| schoolcomputing || http://SchoolComputing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| schools || http://schools.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scoop	|| http://scoop.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scouting || http://scouting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| scoutpedia || http://www.scoutpedia.info/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| scratchpad || http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| scriptingwiki || http://scripting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| seapig || http://www.seapig.org/$1 || 0 || Save Money on Shared or Dedicated Hosting || -
|-
| seattlewiki || http://seattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| seattlewireless || http://seattlewireless.net/?$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| seldonshand || http://seldonhand.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| semweb || http://semweb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| senseislibrary || http://senseis.xmp.net/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgcommand || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgwireless || http://sgwireless.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| shakti || http://cgi.algonet.se/htbin/cgiwrap/pgd/ShaktiWiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| shoppingwiki || http://shopping.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| simpsons || http://simpsons.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| sims || http://sims.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sitelibrary || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| skypeme || skype:$1?chat || 0 || (url not tested) || -
|-
| slashdot || http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| slektami || http://slektami.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| smarteam || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| smikipedia || http://www.smikipedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| smw || http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| socialism || http://socialism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sockwiki || http://wiki.socklabs.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| solarconquest	|| http://SolarConquest.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sosdancn || http://wiki.sosdancn.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sourceforge || http://sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sourcewatch || http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| spankart || http://spankingartwiki.animeotk.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sport	|| http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sports || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| squeak || http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| srpstvo || http://Srpstvo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ssb || http://www.ssbwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| stargate || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| startrekwiki || http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| starwars || http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fully operational || -
|-
| storypedia || http://Storypedia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| stpete || http://stpete.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| strategywiki || http://strategywiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| strikiwiki || http://ch.twi.tudelft.nl/~mostert/striki/teststriki.pl?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| suceavacounty || http://Suceava.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| suisse || http://suisse.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sunrisesunset || http://sunrisesunset.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| superstar || http://superstar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || czech
|-
| susning || http://www.susning.nu/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|-
| svgwiki || http://wiki.svg.org/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| svtwiki || http://SVT.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| swtrain || http://train.spottingworld.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s || http://www.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[s:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| search || http://search.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| seeds || http://www.IslandSeeds.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| software || http://software.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| startup || http://startup.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| students || http://students.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 't'===

Round 20. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 't', except for these 3:
* town-titles, townn-titles, translation

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[translation:" or "translation:" so I have to look at hits for "translation" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"town-titles" and "townn-titles" have special characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

"tvtropes" was special. I found 4 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. However, 2 of them did not work, because tvtropes re-organized their articles; and were not fixable, because our interwiki link points to the Main section of tvtropes and they moved their article on NetHack to the VideoGame section. And then I saw that our article on tvtropes had obsolete information, so I updated that article, added references, and so on. At the end of my editing session, there were 0 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, so you can delete the interwiki link now. tvtropes certainly has a way of engaging people for longer than they planned.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| tablature || http://tablature.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| talisman || http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Top Live Casino || already done, expedited deletion
|-
| tardis || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tavi || http://tavi.sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| techcompare || http://TechCompare.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tejo || http://www.tejo.org/vikio/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| terrorwiki || http://www.liberalsagainstterrorism.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || How To Grow Your Small Business Into a Large Business || -
|-
| tesoltaiwan || http://www.tesol-taiwan.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || no wiki, redirects to its main page || -
|-
| thelemapedia || http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| theopedia || http://www.theopedia.com/$1 || 0 || Not found || -
|-
| theowiki || http://www.theowiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_RESET || -
|-
| thinkwiki || http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| tianjin || http://Tianjin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tmbw || http://www.tmbw.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tmnet || http://www.technomanifestos.net/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| tmwiki || http://www.EasyTopicMaps.com/?page=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| toronto || http://toronto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tourism || http://tourism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| trains || http://trains.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transformers || http://tfwiki.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transhumanism || http://transhumanism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tricities || http://huntricitiesde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| turismo || http://www.tejo.org/turismo/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| turriwiki || http://wiki.finfur.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || Fatal exception of type MWException || -
|-
| tvtropes || http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/$1 || 0 || operational || our interwiki link points to Main and their NetHack article is no longer in Main, so we no longer use any tvtropes:xxx interwiki links
|-
| twiki || http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| twistedwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/twisted/$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found on this site. || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| town-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| townn-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| translation || http://translation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'u'===

Round 21. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'u', except for this 1:
* university

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[university:" or "university:" so I have to look at hits for "university" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| uea || http://www.tejo.org/uea/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| ufology || http://ufology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukrailways || http://ukrailways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukroads || http://ukroads.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| uncyclopedia || http://www.uncyclopedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || File not found (404 error) || uncyclopedia moved. I changed all 1 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[uncyclopedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to use direct https to current location.
|-
| universitywikinodewiki || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| unreal || http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ursine || http://ursine.ca/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| usej || http://www.tejo.org/usej/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| utopia || http://Utopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| university || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'v'===
Round 22. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'v'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (v) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| vancouver || http://vancouver.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| vanishedlibrary || http://VanishedLibrary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| vegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| villagearts || http://www.Village-Arts.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| vinismo || http://vinismo.com/en/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| virtualpets || http://VirtualPets.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| virus || http://virus.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| visualworks || http://wiki.cs.uiuc.edu/VisualWorks/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| vlaamseklantenbrussel	|| http://vlaamseklantenbrussel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| voterice || http://voterice.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (v) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'v'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 16:16, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'w'===

Round 23. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'w', except for these 12:
* w, why, wiki, wikia, wikibooks, wikicities, wikimedia, wikinfo, wikipedia, wikt, wiktionary, worlds

Some of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[w:" or "w:" so I have to look at hits for "w" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (w) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| w:c:academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| w:c:wowwiki || http://www.wowwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| warpedview || http://www.warpedview.com/mediawiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| warzone2100 || http://warzone2100.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| webdevwikinl || http://www.promo-it.nl/WebDevWiki/index.php?page=$1 || 0 || De website die u probeert te vinden is niet bereikbaar || dutch
|-
| webisodes || http://www.webisodes.org/$1 || 0 || HTTP Status: 404 (not found) || -
|-
| webseitzwiki || http://webseitz.fluxent.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| westport || http://Westport.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| whitewolf || http://whiteWolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiablog || http://blogs.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiaentertainment || http://entertainment.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiagaming || http://gaming.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiahelp || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikianswers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wikible || http://www.wikible.org/en/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| wikicomedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikif1 || http://www.wikif1.org/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| wikifur || http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikihelp || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikihow || http://www.wikihow.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiindex || http://wikiindex.com/$1 || 0 || 504 Gateway Time-out || -
|-
| wikimac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikimon || http://wikimon.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikimoon || http://wikimoon.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikinews || http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiquote || http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikirps || http://www.wikirps.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| wikiscum || http://scum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikisource || http://wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikispecies || http://species.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikitravel || http://wikitravel.org/en/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiversity || http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikivoyage || http://www.wikivoyage.org/general/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiworld || http://WikiWorld.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Parse error: syntax error, unexpected 'Namespace' (T_NAMESPACE), expecting identifier (T_STRING) in /var/www/vhosts/wikiworld.com/httpdocs/wiki/includes/Namespace.php on line 46 || -
|-
| windsurfing || http://windsurfing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wlp || http://wlp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wlug || http://www.wlug.org.nz/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wnc || http://wnc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| worldcitizen || http://worldcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wowwiki || http://www.wowwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (w) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| w || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 6+ known uses|| operational || we have 6+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| why || http://clublet.com/c/c/why?$1 || unsearchable || (domain for sale) || -
|-
| wiki || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| wikia || http://www.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| wikibooks || http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/$1 || 3 || operational || we have 3 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikibooks:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikicities || http://www.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 1 || main page of fandom.com || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikicities:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikimedia || http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| wikinfo || http://www.wikinfo.org/index.php/$1 || 2 || wikinfo exists but rearranged site || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikipedia || http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, many || operational || we have many &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikt || http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikt:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wiktionary || http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/$1 || 3 || operational || we have 3 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wiktionary:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| worlds || http://worlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'x', 'y', or 'z'===

Round 24. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'x', 'y', or 'z', except for these 5:
* x-files, zh.anime, zh.mac, zh.wikimac, zzz wiki

These 5 prefixes have special characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (x), (y), and (z) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| xao || http://XAO.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ypsieyeball || http://sknkwrks.dyndns.org:1957/writewiki/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| zeldapendium || http://www.zeldapendium.de/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| zeldawiki || http://zeldawiki.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| zemirot || http://zemirotdatabase.org/view_song.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| zhmusic || http://zh.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| zwiki	|| http://zwiki.org/$1 || 0 || zwiki.org link broken #6 || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (x), (y), and (z) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| x-files || http://x-files.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| zh.anime || http://zh.anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zh.mac || http://zh.mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zh.wikimac || http://zh.mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zzz wiki || http://wiki.zzz.ee/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|}

:In regards to specifically Zeldawiki, I think that one is likely to be worth keeping because we do have at least a few Zelda-inspired monsters, possibly among other stuff (see [[garo]], which also need a presentability pass but there you go). The rest of the "delete" table can go without contest. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 16:15, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with other first characters===

Round 25. This is the final round.

I would like to request that an admin delete many interwiki entries starting with other first characters except for these 2:
* Cache, Wikihack

Some of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[Cache:" or "Cache:" so I have to look at hits for "Cache" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (other first character) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| 3dgame || http://3dgame.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| AwarenessWiki || http://taoriver.net/aware/$1 || 0 || ERR_ADDRESS_UNREACHABLE || -
|-
| Legowiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Lego-Robotics/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (other first character) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| Cache	|| http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| Wikihack || http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:$1 || unsearchable, 2+ known uses || operational || we have 2+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Wikihack:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==
{{resolved top}}
These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::I can undelete pages accordingly if need be, but this seems like a fine enough idea - I don't want it to be ''too'' short, though, just meaty enough that it can serve as a source-diving aid of sorts without getting too into the weeds. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

:: Huh. This sounds like a good idea. They would be little disambiguation articles, with links at the bottom for 3.4.3, 3.6.7, 3.7-dev, and even for variant source code. They wouldn't have line numbers or functions. And if someone writes &lt;nowiki&gt;[[src/mon.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; in a talk page, then the page won't get stale when a new version comes out, people who read source code can figure out that a comment from 2013 was talking about to the 3.4.3 version, especially if there is a link somewhere to a quickie list of release dates. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

This is more complicated than I thought. For example, NetHackWiki has 14 files and 15 redirects for the source file "dogmove.c". I would like to digest the current scheme before making proposals and carrying out sweeps. Interested editors are invited to read and comment on [[User:Furey/How many copies of dogmove.c?]].

Meanwhile, I withdraw this proposal. I'll come back with rewritten proposals if I can get some consensus on my "how many copies" page. I am still fixing pages that link to ''wrong'' source versions.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:15, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}</text>
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    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>172618</id>
      <parentid>172600</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-28T18:03:07Z</timestamp>
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        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'x', 'y', or 'z' */ fine with me,  for this and others. just make notes for posterity.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
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      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="121900">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience.

To give further context: below is a series of interwiki links [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5#Wikia Links|that were slated to be dealt with]] after the move to MediaWiki, but it fell to the wayside for more than a decade before another user decided to draw attention to the matter. Below is a series of lists meant to expedite the process and finish what was meant to be done back in 2011.

--[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC) [Original Message: 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:05, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:18, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

{{resolved top}}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===
Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 13:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'r'===

Round 18. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'r', except for these 4:
* religion, religion-wiki, reviews, roguebasin

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[religion:" or "religion:" so I have to look at hits for "religion" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| radioscanning || http://radioscanning.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| raec || http://www.raec.clacso.edu.ar:8080/raec/Members/raecpedia/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| realestate || http://realestate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reallifesoap || http://rls.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| republiconline || http://RepublicOnline.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| revo || http://purl.org/NET/voko/revo/art/$1.html || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| rfc || https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| roadcycling || http://RoadCycling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| robotbattle || http://RobotBattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rollercoastertycoon || http://rct.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| romhack || http://romhack.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| royalisme || http://Royalisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rpg || http://rpg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ru.townn-titles || http://ru.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| runescape || http://RuneScape.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| russianworld || http://russianworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| religion || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| religion-wiki || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reviews || http://reviews.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| roguebasin || https://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=$1 || unsearchable, 10+ known uses || operational || we have 10+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[roguebasin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 's'===

Round 19. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 's', except for these 6:
* s, search, seeds, software, startup, students

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[search:" or "search:" so I have to look at hits for "search" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"s" has at least one use.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s23wiki || http://is-root.de/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Buy this domain. || -
|-
| sageswiki || http://sages.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sagewiki || http://sage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| salmesykkel || http://salmesykkel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| samplitude || http://Samplitude.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sandiego || http://sandiego.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sanfranciscowiki || http://sanfrancisco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sca21 || http://sca21.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| schoolcomputing || http://SchoolComputing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| schools || http://schools.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scoop	|| http://scoop.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scouting || http://scouting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| scoutpedia || http://www.scoutpedia.info/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| scratchpad || http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| scriptingwiki || http://scripting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| seapig || http://www.seapig.org/$1 || 0 || Save Money on Shared or Dedicated Hosting || -
|-
| seattlewiki || http://seattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| seattlewireless || http://seattlewireless.net/?$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| seldonshand || http://seldonhand.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| semweb || http://semweb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| senseislibrary || http://senseis.xmp.net/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgcommand || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgwireless || http://sgwireless.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| shakti || http://cgi.algonet.se/htbin/cgiwrap/pgd/ShaktiWiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| shoppingwiki || http://shopping.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| simpsons || http://simpsons.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| sims || http://sims.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sitelibrary || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| skypeme || skype:$1?chat || 0 || (url not tested) || -
|-
| slashdot || http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| slektami || http://slektami.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| smarteam || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| smikipedia || http://www.smikipedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| smw || http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| socialism || http://socialism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sockwiki || http://wiki.socklabs.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| solarconquest	|| http://SolarConquest.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sosdancn || http://wiki.sosdancn.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sourceforge || http://sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sourcewatch || http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| spankart || http://spankingartwiki.animeotk.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sport	|| http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sports || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| squeak || http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| srpstvo || http://Srpstvo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ssb || http://www.ssbwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| stargate || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| startrekwiki || http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| starwars || http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fully operational || -
|-
| storypedia || http://Storypedia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| stpete || http://stpete.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| strategywiki || http://strategywiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| strikiwiki || http://ch.twi.tudelft.nl/~mostert/striki/teststriki.pl?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| suceavacounty || http://Suceava.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| suisse || http://suisse.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sunrisesunset || http://sunrisesunset.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| superstar || http://superstar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || czech
|-
| susning || http://www.susning.nu/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|-
| svgwiki || http://wiki.svg.org/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| svtwiki || http://SVT.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| swtrain || http://train.spottingworld.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s || http://www.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[s:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| search || http://search.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| seeds || http://www.IslandSeeds.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| software || http://software.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| startup || http://startup.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| students || http://students.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 't'===

Round 20. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 't', except for these 3:
* town-titles, townn-titles, translation

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[translation:" or "translation:" so I have to look at hits for "translation" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"town-titles" and "townn-titles" have special characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

"tvtropes" was special. I found 4 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. However, 2 of them did not work, because tvtropes re-organized their articles; and were not fixable, because our interwiki link points to the Main section of tvtropes and they moved their article on NetHack to the VideoGame section. And then I saw that our article on tvtropes had obsolete information, so I updated that article, added references, and so on. At the end of my editing session, there were 0 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, so you can delete the interwiki link now. tvtropes certainly has a way of engaging people for longer than they planned.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| tablature || http://tablature.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| talisman || http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Top Live Casino || already done, expedited deletion
|-
| tardis || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tavi || http://tavi.sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| techcompare || http://TechCompare.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tejo || http://www.tejo.org/vikio/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| terrorwiki || http://www.liberalsagainstterrorism.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || How To Grow Your Small Business Into a Large Business || -
|-
| tesoltaiwan || http://www.tesol-taiwan.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || no wiki, redirects to its main page || -
|-
| thelemapedia || http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| theopedia || http://www.theopedia.com/$1 || 0 || Not found || -
|-
| theowiki || http://www.theowiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_RESET || -
|-
| thinkwiki || http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| tianjin || http://Tianjin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tmbw || http://www.tmbw.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tmnet || http://www.technomanifestos.net/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| tmwiki || http://www.EasyTopicMaps.com/?page=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| toronto || http://toronto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tourism || http://tourism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| trains || http://trains.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transformers || http://tfwiki.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transhumanism || http://transhumanism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tricities || http://huntricitiesde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| turismo || http://www.tejo.org/turismo/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| turriwiki || http://wiki.finfur.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || Fatal exception of type MWException || -
|-
| tvtropes || http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/$1 || 0 || operational || our interwiki link points to Main and their NetHack article is no longer in Main, so we no longer use any tvtropes:xxx interwiki links
|-
| twiki || http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| twistedwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/twisted/$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found on this site. || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| town-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| townn-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| translation || http://translation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'u'===

Round 21. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'u', except for this 1:
* university

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[university:" or "university:" so I have to look at hits for "university" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| uea || http://www.tejo.org/uea/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| ufology || http://ufology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukrailways || http://ukrailways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukroads || http://ukroads.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| uncyclopedia || http://www.uncyclopedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || File not found (404 error) || uncyclopedia moved. I changed all 1 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[uncyclopedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to use direct https to current location.
|-
| universitywikinodewiki || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| unreal || http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ursine || http://ursine.ca/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| usej || http://www.tejo.org/usej/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| utopia || http://Utopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| university || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'v'===
Round 22. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'v'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (v) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| vancouver || http://vancouver.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| vanishedlibrary || http://VanishedLibrary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| vegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| villagearts || http://www.Village-Arts.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| vinismo || http://vinismo.com/en/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| virtualpets || http://VirtualPets.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| virus || http://virus.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| visualworks || http://wiki.cs.uiuc.edu/VisualWorks/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| vlaamseklantenbrussel	|| http://vlaamseklantenbrussel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| voterice || http://voterice.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (v) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'v'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 16:16, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'w'===

Round 23. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'w', except for these 12:
* w, why, wiki, wikia, wikibooks, wikicities, wikimedia, wikinfo, wikipedia, wikt, wiktionary, worlds

Some of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[w:" or "w:" so I have to look at hits for "w" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (w) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| w:c:academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| w:c:wowwiki || http://www.wowwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| warpedview || http://www.warpedview.com/mediawiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| warzone2100 || http://warzone2100.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| webdevwikinl || http://www.promo-it.nl/WebDevWiki/index.php?page=$1 || 0 || De website die u probeert te vinden is niet bereikbaar || dutch
|-
| webisodes || http://www.webisodes.org/$1 || 0 || HTTP Status: 404 (not found) || -
|-
| webseitzwiki || http://webseitz.fluxent.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| westport || http://Westport.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| whitewolf || http://whiteWolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiablog || http://blogs.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiaentertainment || http://entertainment.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiagaming || http://gaming.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiahelp || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikianswers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wikible || http://www.wikible.org/en/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| wikicomedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikif1 || http://www.wikif1.org/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| wikifur || http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikihelp || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikihow || http://www.wikihow.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiindex || http://wikiindex.com/$1 || 0 || 504 Gateway Time-out || -
|-
| wikimac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikimon || http://wikimon.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikimoon || http://wikimoon.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikinews || http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiquote || http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikirps || http://www.wikirps.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| wikiscum || http://scum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikisource || http://wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikispecies || http://species.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikitravel || http://wikitravel.org/en/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiversity || http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikivoyage || http://www.wikivoyage.org/general/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiworld || http://WikiWorld.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Parse error: syntax error, unexpected 'Namespace' (T_NAMESPACE), expecting identifier (T_STRING) in /var/www/vhosts/wikiworld.com/httpdocs/wiki/includes/Namespace.php on line 46 || -
|-
| windsurfing || http://windsurfing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wlp || http://wlp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wlug || http://www.wlug.org.nz/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wnc || http://wnc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| worldcitizen || http://worldcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wowwiki || http://www.wowwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (w) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| w || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 6+ known uses|| operational || we have 6+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| why || http://clublet.com/c/c/why?$1 || unsearchable || (domain for sale) || -
|-
| wiki || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| wikia || http://www.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| wikibooks || http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/$1 || 3 || operational || we have 3 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikibooks:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikicities || http://www.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 1 || main page of fandom.com || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikicities:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikimedia || http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| wikinfo || http://www.wikinfo.org/index.php/$1 || 2 || wikinfo exists but rearranged site || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikipedia || http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, many || operational || we have many &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikt || http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikt:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wiktionary || http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/$1 || 3 || operational || we have 3 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wiktionary:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| worlds || http://worlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'x', 'y', or 'z'===

Round 24. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'x', 'y', or 'z', except for these 5:
* x-files, zh.anime, zh.mac, zh.wikimac, zzz wiki

These 5 prefixes have special characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (x), (y), and (z) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| xao || http://XAO.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ypsieyeball || http://sknkwrks.dyndns.org:1957/writewiki/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| zeldapendium || http://www.zeldapendium.de/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| zeldawiki || http://zeldawiki.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| zemirot || http://zemirotdatabase.org/view_song.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| zhmusic || http://zh.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| zwiki	|| http://zwiki.org/$1 || 0 || zwiki.org link broken #6 || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (x), (y), and (z) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| x-files || http://x-files.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| zh.anime || http://zh.anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zh.mac || http://zh.mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zh.wikimac || http://zh.mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zzz wiki || http://wiki.zzz.ee/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|}

:In regards to specifically Zeldawiki, I think that one is likely to be worth keeping because we do have at least a few Zelda-inspired monsters, possibly among other stuff (see [[garo]], which also need a presentability pass but there you go). The rest of the "delete" table can go without contest. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 16:15, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

::I am fine with keeping Zeldawiki and others at your discretion. Just make notes like the above, delete the others, mark issue resolved. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 18:03, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with other first characters===

Round 25. This is the final round.

I would like to request that an admin delete many interwiki entries starting with other first characters except for these 2:
* Cache, Wikihack

Some of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[Cache:" or "Cache:" so I have to look at hits for "Cache" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (other first character) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| 3dgame || http://3dgame.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| AwarenessWiki || http://taoriver.net/aware/$1 || 0 || ERR_ADDRESS_UNREACHABLE || -
|-
| Legowiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Lego-Robotics/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (other first character) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| Cache	|| http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| Wikihack || http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:$1 || unsearchable, 2+ known uses || operational || we have 2+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Wikihack:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==
{{resolved top}}
These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::I can undelete pages accordingly if need be, but this seems like a fine enough idea - I don't want it to be ''too'' short, though, just meaty enough that it can serve as a source-diving aid of sorts without getting too into the weeds. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

:: Huh. This sounds like a good idea. They would be little disambiguation articles, with links at the bottom for 3.4.3, 3.6.7, 3.7-dev, and even for variant source code. They wouldn't have line numbers or functions. And if someone writes &lt;nowiki&gt;[[src/mon.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; in a talk page, then the page won't get stale when a new version comes out, people who read source code can figure out that a comment from 2013 was talking about to the 3.4.3 version, especially if there is a link somewhere to a quickie list of release dates. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

This is more complicated than I thought. For example, NetHackWiki has 14 files and 15 redirects for the source file "dogmove.c". I would like to digest the current scheme before making proposals and carrying out sweeps. Interested editors are invited to read and comment on [[User:Furey/How many copies of dogmove.c?]].

Meanwhile, I withdraw this proposal. I'll come back with rewritten proposals if I can get some consensus on my "how many copies" page. I am still fixing pages that link to ''wrong'' source versions.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:15, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}</text>
      <sha1>0odocp8q2cnem6etgkx90t03vt7vv9f</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>172622</id>
      <parentid>172618</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-28T19:55:02Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'v' */ Still need to delete: vancouver, vanishedlibray</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="122025">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience.

To give further context: below is a series of interwiki links [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5#Wikia Links|that were slated to be dealt with]] after the move to MediaWiki, but it fell to the wayside for more than a decade before another user decided to draw attention to the matter. Below is a series of lists meant to expedite the process and finish what was meant to be done back in 2011.

--[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC) [Original Message: 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:05, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:18, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

{{resolved top}}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===
Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 13:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'r'===

Round 18. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'r', except for these 4:
* religion, religion-wiki, reviews, roguebasin

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[religion:" or "religion:" so I have to look at hits for "religion" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| radioscanning || http://radioscanning.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| raec || http://www.raec.clacso.edu.ar:8080/raec/Members/raecpedia/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| realestate || http://realestate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reallifesoap || http://rls.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| republiconline || http://RepublicOnline.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| revo || http://purl.org/NET/voko/revo/art/$1.html || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| rfc || https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| roadcycling || http://RoadCycling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| robotbattle || http://RobotBattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rollercoastertycoon || http://rct.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| romhack || http://romhack.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| royalisme || http://Royalisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rpg || http://rpg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ru.townn-titles || http://ru.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| runescape || http://RuneScape.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| russianworld || http://russianworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| religion || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| religion-wiki || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reviews || http://reviews.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| roguebasin || https://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=$1 || unsearchable, 10+ known uses || operational || we have 10+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[roguebasin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 's'===

Round 19. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 's', except for these 6:
* s, search, seeds, software, startup, students

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[search:" or "search:" so I have to look at hits for "search" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"s" has at least one use.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s23wiki || http://is-root.de/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Buy this domain. || -
|-
| sageswiki || http://sages.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sagewiki || http://sage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| salmesykkel || http://salmesykkel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| samplitude || http://Samplitude.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sandiego || http://sandiego.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sanfranciscowiki || http://sanfrancisco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sca21 || http://sca21.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| schoolcomputing || http://SchoolComputing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| schools || http://schools.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scoop	|| http://scoop.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scouting || http://scouting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| scoutpedia || http://www.scoutpedia.info/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| scratchpad || http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| scriptingwiki || http://scripting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| seapig || http://www.seapig.org/$1 || 0 || Save Money on Shared or Dedicated Hosting || -
|-
| seattlewiki || http://seattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| seattlewireless || http://seattlewireless.net/?$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| seldonshand || http://seldonhand.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| semweb || http://semweb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| senseislibrary || http://senseis.xmp.net/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgcommand || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgwireless || http://sgwireless.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| shakti || http://cgi.algonet.se/htbin/cgiwrap/pgd/ShaktiWiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| shoppingwiki || http://shopping.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| simpsons || http://simpsons.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| sims || http://sims.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sitelibrary || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| skypeme || skype:$1?chat || 0 || (url not tested) || -
|-
| slashdot || http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| slektami || http://slektami.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| smarteam || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| smikipedia || http://www.smikipedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| smw || http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| socialism || http://socialism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sockwiki || http://wiki.socklabs.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| solarconquest	|| http://SolarConquest.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sosdancn || http://wiki.sosdancn.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sourceforge || http://sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sourcewatch || http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| spankart || http://spankingartwiki.animeotk.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sport	|| http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sports || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| squeak || http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| srpstvo || http://Srpstvo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ssb || http://www.ssbwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| stargate || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| startrekwiki || http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| starwars || http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fully operational || -
|-
| storypedia || http://Storypedia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| stpete || http://stpete.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| strategywiki || http://strategywiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| strikiwiki || http://ch.twi.tudelft.nl/~mostert/striki/teststriki.pl?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| suceavacounty || http://Suceava.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| suisse || http://suisse.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sunrisesunset || http://sunrisesunset.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| superstar || http://superstar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || czech
|-
| susning || http://www.susning.nu/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|-
| svgwiki || http://wiki.svg.org/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| svtwiki || http://SVT.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| swtrain || http://train.spottingworld.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s || http://www.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[s:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| search || http://search.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| seeds || http://www.IslandSeeds.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| software || http://software.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| startup || http://startup.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| students || http://students.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 't'===

Round 20. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 't', except for these 3:
* town-titles, townn-titles, translation

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[translation:" or "translation:" so I have to look at hits for "translation" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"town-titles" and "townn-titles" have special characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

"tvtropes" was special. I found 4 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. However, 2 of them did not work, because tvtropes re-organized their articles; and were not fixable, because our interwiki link points to the Main section of tvtropes and they moved their article on NetHack to the VideoGame section. And then I saw that our article on tvtropes had obsolete information, so I updated that article, added references, and so on. At the end of my editing session, there were 0 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, so you can delete the interwiki link now. tvtropes certainly has a way of engaging people for longer than they planned.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| tablature || http://tablature.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| talisman || http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Top Live Casino || already done, expedited deletion
|-
| tardis || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tavi || http://tavi.sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| techcompare || http://TechCompare.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tejo || http://www.tejo.org/vikio/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| terrorwiki || http://www.liberalsagainstterrorism.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || How To Grow Your Small Business Into a Large Business || -
|-
| tesoltaiwan || http://www.tesol-taiwan.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || no wiki, redirects to its main page || -
|-
| thelemapedia || http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| theopedia || http://www.theopedia.com/$1 || 0 || Not found || -
|-
| theowiki || http://www.theowiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_RESET || -
|-
| thinkwiki || http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| tianjin || http://Tianjin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tmbw || http://www.tmbw.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tmnet || http://www.technomanifestos.net/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| tmwiki || http://www.EasyTopicMaps.com/?page=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| toronto || http://toronto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tourism || http://tourism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| trains || http://trains.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transformers || http://tfwiki.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transhumanism || http://transhumanism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tricities || http://huntricitiesde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| turismo || http://www.tejo.org/turismo/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| turriwiki || http://wiki.finfur.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || Fatal exception of type MWException || -
|-
| tvtropes || http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/$1 || 0 || operational || our interwiki link points to Main and their NetHack article is no longer in Main, so we no longer use any tvtropes:xxx interwiki links
|-
| twiki || http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| twistedwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/twisted/$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found on this site. || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| town-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| townn-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| translation || http://translation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'u'===

Round 21. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'u', except for this 1:
* university

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[university:" or "university:" so I have to look at hits for "university" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| uea || http://www.tejo.org/uea/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| ufology || http://ufology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukrailways || http://ukrailways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukroads || http://ukroads.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| uncyclopedia || http://www.uncyclopedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || File not found (404 error) || uncyclopedia moved. I changed all 1 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[uncyclopedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to use direct https to current location.
|-
| universitywikinodewiki || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| unreal || http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ursine || http://ursine.ca/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| usej || http://www.tejo.org/usej/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| utopia || http://Utopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| university || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'v'===
Round 22. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'v'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (v) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| vancouver || http://vancouver.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| vanishedlibrary || http://VanishedLibrary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| vegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| villagearts || http://www.Village-Arts.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| vinismo || http://vinismo.com/en/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| virtualpets || http://VirtualPets.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| virus || http://virus.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| visualworks || http://wiki.cs.uiuc.edu/VisualWorks/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| vlaamseklantenbrussel	|| http://vlaamseklantenbrussel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| voterice || http://voterice.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (v) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'v'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 16:16, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
::Still need to delete: vancouver, vanishedlibrary [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 19:54, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'w'===

Round 23. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'w', except for these 12:
* w, why, wiki, wikia, wikibooks, wikicities, wikimedia, wikinfo, wikipedia, wikt, wiktionary, worlds

Some of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[w:" or "w:" so I have to look at hits for "w" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (w) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| w:c:academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| w:c:wowwiki || http://www.wowwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| warpedview || http://www.warpedview.com/mediawiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| warzone2100 || http://warzone2100.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| webdevwikinl || http://www.promo-it.nl/WebDevWiki/index.php?page=$1 || 0 || De website die u probeert te vinden is niet bereikbaar || dutch
|-
| webisodes || http://www.webisodes.org/$1 || 0 || HTTP Status: 404 (not found) || -
|-
| webseitzwiki || http://webseitz.fluxent.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| westport || http://Westport.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| whitewolf || http://whiteWolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiablog || http://blogs.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiaentertainment || http://entertainment.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiagaming || http://gaming.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiahelp || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikianswers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wikible || http://www.wikible.org/en/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| wikicomedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikif1 || http://www.wikif1.org/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| wikifur || http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikihelp || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikihow || http://www.wikihow.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiindex || http://wikiindex.com/$1 || 0 || 504 Gateway Time-out || -
|-
| wikimac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikimon || http://wikimon.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikimoon || http://wikimoon.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikinews || http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiquote || http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikirps || http://www.wikirps.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| wikiscum || http://scum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikisource || http://wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikispecies || http://species.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikitravel || http://wikitravel.org/en/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiversity || http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikivoyage || http://www.wikivoyage.org/general/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiworld || http://WikiWorld.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Parse error: syntax error, unexpected 'Namespace' (T_NAMESPACE), expecting identifier (T_STRING) in /var/www/vhosts/wikiworld.com/httpdocs/wiki/includes/Namespace.php on line 46 || -
|-
| windsurfing || http://windsurfing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wlp || http://wlp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wlug || http://www.wlug.org.nz/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wnc || http://wnc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| worldcitizen || http://worldcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wowwiki || http://www.wowwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (w) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| w || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 6+ known uses|| operational || we have 6+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| why || http://clublet.com/c/c/why?$1 || unsearchable || (domain for sale) || -
|-
| wiki || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| wikia || http://www.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| wikibooks || http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/$1 || 3 || operational || we have 3 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikibooks:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikicities || http://www.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 1 || main page of fandom.com || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikicities:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikimedia || http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| wikinfo || http://www.wikinfo.org/index.php/$1 || 2 || wikinfo exists but rearranged site || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikipedia || http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, many || operational || we have many &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikt || http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikt:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wiktionary || http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/$1 || 3 || operational || we have 3 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wiktionary:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| worlds || http://worlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'x', 'y', or 'z'===

Round 24. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'x', 'y', or 'z', except for these 5:
* x-files, zh.anime, zh.mac, zh.wikimac, zzz wiki

These 5 prefixes have special characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (x), (y), and (z) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| xao || http://XAO.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ypsieyeball || http://sknkwrks.dyndns.org:1957/writewiki/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| zeldapendium || http://www.zeldapendium.de/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| zeldawiki || http://zeldawiki.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| zemirot || http://zemirotdatabase.org/view_song.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| zhmusic || http://zh.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| zwiki	|| http://zwiki.org/$1 || 0 || zwiki.org link broken #6 || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (x), (y), and (z) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| x-files || http://x-files.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| zh.anime || http://zh.anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zh.mac || http://zh.mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zh.wikimac || http://zh.mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zzz wiki || http://wiki.zzz.ee/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|}

:In regards to specifically Zeldawiki, I think that one is likely to be worth keeping because we do have at least a few Zelda-inspired monsters, possibly among other stuff (see [[garo]], which also need a presentability pass but there you go). The rest of the "delete" table can go without contest. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 16:15, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

::I am fine with keeping Zeldawiki and others at your discretion. Just make notes like the above, delete the others, mark issue resolved. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 18:03, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with other first characters===

Round 25. This is the final round.

I would like to request that an admin delete many interwiki entries starting with other first characters except for these 2:
* Cache, Wikihack

Some of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[Cache:" or "Cache:" so I have to look at hits for "Cache" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (other first character) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| 3dgame || http://3dgame.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| AwarenessWiki || http://taoriver.net/aware/$1 || 0 || ERR_ADDRESS_UNREACHABLE || -
|-
| Legowiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Lego-Robotics/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (other first character) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| Cache	|| http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| Wikihack || http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:$1 || unsearchable, 2+ known uses || operational || we have 2+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Wikihack:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==
{{resolved top}}
These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::I can undelete pages accordingly if need be, but this seems like a fine enough idea - I don't want it to be ''too'' short, though, just meaty enough that it can serve as a source-diving aid of sorts without getting too into the weeds. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

:: Huh. This sounds like a good idea. They would be little disambiguation articles, with links at the bottom for 3.4.3, 3.6.7, 3.7-dev, and even for variant source code. They wouldn't have line numbers or functions. And if someone writes &lt;nowiki&gt;[[src/mon.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; in a talk page, then the page won't get stale when a new version comes out, people who read source code can figure out that a comment from 2013 was talking about to the 3.4.3 version, especially if there is a link somewhere to a quickie list of release dates. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

This is more complicated than I thought. For example, NetHackWiki has 14 files and 15 redirects for the source file "dogmove.c". I would like to digest the current scheme before making proposals and carrying out sweeps. Interested editors are invited to read and comment on [[User:Furey/How many copies of dogmove.c?]].

Meanwhile, I withdraw this proposal. I'll come back with rewritten proposals if I can get some consensus on my "how many copies" page. I am still fixing pages that link to ''wrong'' source versions.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:15, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}</text>
      <sha1>75kdfqlypb1gg6mk6scnvqt5c712erx</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>172623</id>
      <parentid>172622</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-28T20:07:31Z</timestamp>
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        <id>4001279</id>
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&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience.

To give further context: below is a series of interwiki links [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5#Wikia Links|that were slated to be dealt with]] after the move to MediaWiki, but it fell to the wayside for more than a decade before another user decided to draw attention to the matter. Below is a series of lists meant to expedite the process and finish what was meant to be done back in 2011.

--[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC) [Original Message: 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:05, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:18, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

{{resolved top}}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===
Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 13:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'r'===

Round 18. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'r', except for these 4:
* religion, religion-wiki, reviews, roguebasin

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[religion:" or "religion:" so I have to look at hits for "religion" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| radioscanning || http://radioscanning.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| raec || http://www.raec.clacso.edu.ar:8080/raec/Members/raecpedia/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| realestate || http://realestate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reallifesoap || http://rls.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| republiconline || http://RepublicOnline.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| revo || http://purl.org/NET/voko/revo/art/$1.html || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| rfc || https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| roadcycling || http://RoadCycling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| robotbattle || http://RobotBattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rollercoastertycoon || http://rct.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| romhack || http://romhack.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| royalisme || http://Royalisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rpg || http://rpg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ru.townn-titles || http://ru.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| runescape || http://RuneScape.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| russianworld || http://russianworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| religion || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| religion-wiki || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reviews || http://reviews.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| roguebasin || https://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=$1 || unsearchable, 10+ known uses || operational || we have 10+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[roguebasin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 's'===

Round 19. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 's', except for these 6:
* s, search, seeds, software, startup, students

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[search:" or "search:" so I have to look at hits for "search" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"s" has at least one use.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s23wiki || http://is-root.de/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Buy this domain. || -
|-
| sageswiki || http://sages.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sagewiki || http://sage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| salmesykkel || http://salmesykkel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| samplitude || http://Samplitude.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sandiego || http://sandiego.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sanfranciscowiki || http://sanfrancisco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sca21 || http://sca21.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| schoolcomputing || http://SchoolComputing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| schools || http://schools.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scoop	|| http://scoop.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scouting || http://scouting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| scoutpedia || http://www.scoutpedia.info/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| scratchpad || http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| scriptingwiki || http://scripting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| seapig || http://www.seapig.org/$1 || 0 || Save Money on Shared or Dedicated Hosting || -
|-
| seattlewiki || http://seattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| seattlewireless || http://seattlewireless.net/?$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| seldonshand || http://seldonhand.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| semweb || http://semweb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| senseislibrary || http://senseis.xmp.net/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgcommand || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgwireless || http://sgwireless.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| shakti || http://cgi.algonet.se/htbin/cgiwrap/pgd/ShaktiWiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| shoppingwiki || http://shopping.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| simpsons || http://simpsons.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| sims || http://sims.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sitelibrary || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| skypeme || skype:$1?chat || 0 || (url not tested) || -
|-
| slashdot || http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| slektami || http://slektami.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| smarteam || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| smikipedia || http://www.smikipedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| smw || http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| socialism || http://socialism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sockwiki || http://wiki.socklabs.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| solarconquest	|| http://SolarConquest.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sosdancn || http://wiki.sosdancn.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sourceforge || http://sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sourcewatch || http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| spankart || http://spankingartwiki.animeotk.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sport	|| http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sports || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| squeak || http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| srpstvo || http://Srpstvo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ssb || http://www.ssbwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| stargate || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| startrekwiki || http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| starwars || http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fully operational || -
|-
| storypedia || http://Storypedia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| stpete || http://stpete.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| strategywiki || http://strategywiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| strikiwiki || http://ch.twi.tudelft.nl/~mostert/striki/teststriki.pl?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| suceavacounty || http://Suceava.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| suisse || http://suisse.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sunrisesunset || http://sunrisesunset.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| superstar || http://superstar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || czech
|-
| susning || http://www.susning.nu/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|-
| svgwiki || http://wiki.svg.org/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| svtwiki || http://SVT.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| swtrain || http://train.spottingworld.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s || http://www.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[s:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| search || http://search.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| seeds || http://www.IslandSeeds.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| software || http://software.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| startup || http://startup.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| students || http://students.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 't'===

Round 20. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 't', except for these 3:
* town-titles, townn-titles, translation

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[translation:" or "translation:" so I have to look at hits for "translation" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"town-titles" and "townn-titles" have special characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

"tvtropes" was special. I found 4 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. However, 2 of them did not work, because tvtropes re-organized their articles; and were not fixable, because our interwiki link points to the Main section of tvtropes and they moved their article on NetHack to the VideoGame section. And then I saw that our article on tvtropes had obsolete information, so I updated that article, added references, and so on. At the end of my editing session, there were 0 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, so you can delete the interwiki link now. tvtropes certainly has a way of engaging people for longer than they planned.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| tablature || http://tablature.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| talisman || http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Top Live Casino || already done, expedited deletion
|-
| tardis || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tavi || http://tavi.sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| techcompare || http://TechCompare.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tejo || http://www.tejo.org/vikio/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| terrorwiki || http://www.liberalsagainstterrorism.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || How To Grow Your Small Business Into a Large Business || -
|-
| tesoltaiwan || http://www.tesol-taiwan.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || no wiki, redirects to its main page || -
|-
| thelemapedia || http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| theopedia || http://www.theopedia.com/$1 || 0 || Not found || -
|-
| theowiki || http://www.theowiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_RESET || -
|-
| thinkwiki || http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| tianjin || http://Tianjin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tmbw || http://www.tmbw.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tmnet || http://www.technomanifestos.net/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| tmwiki || http://www.EasyTopicMaps.com/?page=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| toronto || http://toronto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tourism || http://tourism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| trains || http://trains.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transformers || http://tfwiki.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transhumanism || http://transhumanism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tricities || http://huntricitiesde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| turismo || http://www.tejo.org/turismo/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| turriwiki || http://wiki.finfur.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || Fatal exception of type MWException || -
|-
| tvtropes || http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/$1 || 0 || operational || our interwiki link points to Main and their NetHack article is no longer in Main, so we no longer use any tvtropes:xxx interwiki links
|-
| twiki || http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| twistedwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/twisted/$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found on this site. || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| town-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| townn-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| translation || http://translation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'u'===

Round 21. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'u', except for this 1:
* university

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[university:" or "university:" so I have to look at hits for "university" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| uea || http://www.tejo.org/uea/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| ufology || http://ufology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukrailways || http://ukrailways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukroads || http://ukroads.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| uncyclopedia || http://www.uncyclopedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || File not found (404 error) || uncyclopedia moved. I changed all 1 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[uncyclopedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to use direct https to current location.
|-
| universitywikinodewiki || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| unreal || http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ursine || http://ursine.ca/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| usej || http://www.tejo.org/usej/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| utopia || http://Utopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| university || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'v'===
Round 22. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'v'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (v) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| vancouver || http://vancouver.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| vanishedlibrary || http://VanishedLibrary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| vegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| villagearts || http://www.Village-Arts.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| vinismo || http://vinismo.com/en/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| virtualpets || http://VirtualPets.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| virus || http://virus.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| visualworks || http://wiki.cs.uiuc.edu/VisualWorks/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| vlaamseklantenbrussel	|| http://vlaamseklantenbrussel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| voterice || http://voterice.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (v) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'v'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 16:16, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
::Still need to delete: vancouver, vanishedlibrary [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 19:54, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
:::Thought I'd gotten them with the rest - cleared out now. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 20:07, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'w'===

Round 23. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'w', except for these 12:
* w, why, wiki, wikia, wikibooks, wikicities, wikimedia, wikinfo, wikipedia, wikt, wiktionary, worlds

Some of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[w:" or "w:" so I have to look at hits for "w" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (w) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| w:c:academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| w:c:wowwiki || http://www.wowwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| warpedview || http://www.warpedview.com/mediawiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| warzone2100 || http://warzone2100.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| webdevwikinl || http://www.promo-it.nl/WebDevWiki/index.php?page=$1 || 0 || De website die u probeert te vinden is niet bereikbaar || dutch
|-
| webisodes || http://www.webisodes.org/$1 || 0 || HTTP Status: 404 (not found) || -
|-
| webseitzwiki || http://webseitz.fluxent.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| westport || http://Westport.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| whitewolf || http://whiteWolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiablog || http://blogs.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiaentertainment || http://entertainment.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiagaming || http://gaming.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiahelp || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikianswers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wikible || http://www.wikible.org/en/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| wikicomedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikif1 || http://www.wikif1.org/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| wikifur || http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikihelp || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikihow || http://www.wikihow.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiindex || http://wikiindex.com/$1 || 0 || 504 Gateway Time-out || -
|-
| wikimac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikimon || http://wikimon.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikimoon || http://wikimoon.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikinews || http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiquote || http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikirps || http://www.wikirps.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| wikiscum || http://scum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikisource || http://wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikispecies || http://species.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikitravel || http://wikitravel.org/en/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiversity || http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikivoyage || http://www.wikivoyage.org/general/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiworld || http://WikiWorld.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Parse error: syntax error, unexpected 'Namespace' (T_NAMESPACE), expecting identifier (T_STRING) in /var/www/vhosts/wikiworld.com/httpdocs/wiki/includes/Namespace.php on line 46 || -
|-
| windsurfing || http://windsurfing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wlp || http://wlp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wlug || http://www.wlug.org.nz/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wnc || http://wnc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| worldcitizen || http://worldcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wowwiki || http://www.wowwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (w) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| w || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 6+ known uses|| operational || we have 6+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| why || http://clublet.com/c/c/why?$1 || unsearchable || (domain for sale) || -
|-
| wiki || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| wikia || http://www.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| wikibooks || http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/$1 || 3 || operational || we have 3 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikibooks:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikicities || http://www.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 1 || main page of fandom.com || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikicities:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikimedia || http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| wikinfo || http://www.wikinfo.org/index.php/$1 || 2 || wikinfo exists but rearranged site || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikipedia || http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, many || operational || we have many &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikt || http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikt:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wiktionary || http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/$1 || 3 || operational || we have 3 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wiktionary:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| worlds || http://worlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'x', 'y', or 'z'===

Round 24. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'x', 'y', or 'z', except for these 5:
* x-files, zh.anime, zh.mac, zh.wikimac, zzz wiki

These 5 prefixes have special characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (x), (y), and (z) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| xao || http://XAO.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ypsieyeball || http://sknkwrks.dyndns.org:1957/writewiki/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| zeldapendium || http://www.zeldapendium.de/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| zeldawiki || http://zeldawiki.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| zemirot || http://zemirotdatabase.org/view_song.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| zhmusic || http://zh.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| zwiki	|| http://zwiki.org/$1 || 0 || zwiki.org link broken #6 || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (x), (y), and (z) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| x-files || http://x-files.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| zh.anime || http://zh.anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zh.mac || http://zh.mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zh.wikimac || http://zh.mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zzz wiki || http://wiki.zzz.ee/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|}

:In regards to specifically Zeldawiki, I think that one is likely to be worth keeping because we do have at least a few Zelda-inspired monsters, possibly among other stuff (see [[garo]], which also need a presentability pass but there you go). The rest of the "delete" table can go without contest. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 16:15, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

::I am fine with keeping Zeldawiki and others at your discretion. Just make notes like the above, delete the others, mark issue resolved. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 18:03, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with other first characters===

Round 25. This is the final round.

I would like to request that an admin delete many interwiki entries starting with other first characters except for these 2:
* Cache, Wikihack

Some of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[Cache:" or "Cache:" so I have to look at hits for "Cache" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (other first character) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| 3dgame || http://3dgame.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| AwarenessWiki || http://taoriver.net/aware/$1 || 0 || ERR_ADDRESS_UNREACHABLE || -
|-
| Legowiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Lego-Robotics/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (other first character) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| Cache	|| http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| Wikihack || http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:$1 || unsearchable, 2+ known uses || operational || we have 2+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Wikihack:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==
{{resolved top}}
These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::I can undelete pages accordingly if need be, but this seems like a fine enough idea - I don't want it to be ''too'' short, though, just meaty enough that it can serve as a source-diving aid of sorts without getting too into the weeds. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

:: Huh. This sounds like a good idea. They would be little disambiguation articles, with links at the bottom for 3.4.3, 3.6.7, 3.7-dev, and even for variant source code. They wouldn't have line numbers or functions. And if someone writes &lt;nowiki&gt;[[src/mon.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; in a talk page, then the page won't get stale when a new version comes out, people who read source code can figure out that a comment from 2013 was talking about to the 3.4.3 version, especially if there is a link somewhere to a quickie list of release dates. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

This is more complicated than I thought. For example, NetHackWiki has 14 files and 15 redirects for the source file "dogmove.c". I would like to digest the current scheme before making proposals and carrying out sweeps. Interested editors are invited to read and comment on [[User:Furey/How many copies of dogmove.c?]].

Meanwhile, I withdraw this proposal. I'll come back with rewritten proposals if I can get some consensus on my "how many copies" page. I am still fixing pages that link to ''wrong'' source versions.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:15, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}</text>
      <sha1>bhaeugcs18sr2a3byljfz1emkqqi27n</sha1>
    </revision>
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      <id>172625</id>
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        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
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      <comment>/* Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'v' */ Verified. Looks good to me.</comment>
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&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience.

To give further context: below is a series of interwiki links [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5#Wikia Links|that were slated to be dealt with]] after the move to MediaWiki, but it fell to the wayside for more than a decade before another user decided to draw attention to the matter. Below is a series of lists meant to expedite the process and finish what was meant to be done back in 2011.

--[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC) [Original Message: 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:05, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:18, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

{{resolved top}}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===
Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 13:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'r'===

Round 18. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'r', except for these 4:
* religion, religion-wiki, reviews, roguebasin

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[religion:" or "religion:" so I have to look at hits for "religion" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| radioscanning || http://radioscanning.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| raec || http://www.raec.clacso.edu.ar:8080/raec/Members/raecpedia/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| realestate || http://realestate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reallifesoap || http://rls.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| republiconline || http://RepublicOnline.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| revo || http://purl.org/NET/voko/revo/art/$1.html || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| rfc || https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| roadcycling || http://RoadCycling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| robotbattle || http://RobotBattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rollercoastertycoon || http://rct.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| romhack || http://romhack.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| royalisme || http://Royalisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rpg || http://rpg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ru.townn-titles || http://ru.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| runescape || http://RuneScape.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| russianworld || http://russianworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| religion || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| religion-wiki || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reviews || http://reviews.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| roguebasin || https://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=$1 || unsearchable, 10+ known uses || operational || we have 10+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[roguebasin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 's'===

Round 19. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 's', except for these 6:
* s, search, seeds, software, startup, students

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[search:" or "search:" so I have to look at hits for "search" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"s" has at least one use.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s23wiki || http://is-root.de/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Buy this domain. || -
|-
| sageswiki || http://sages.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sagewiki || http://sage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| salmesykkel || http://salmesykkel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| samplitude || http://Samplitude.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sandiego || http://sandiego.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sanfranciscowiki || http://sanfrancisco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sca21 || http://sca21.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| schoolcomputing || http://SchoolComputing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| schools || http://schools.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scoop	|| http://scoop.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scouting || http://scouting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| scoutpedia || http://www.scoutpedia.info/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| scratchpad || http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| scriptingwiki || http://scripting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| seapig || http://www.seapig.org/$1 || 0 || Save Money on Shared or Dedicated Hosting || -
|-
| seattlewiki || http://seattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| seattlewireless || http://seattlewireless.net/?$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| seldonshand || http://seldonhand.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| semweb || http://semweb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| senseislibrary || http://senseis.xmp.net/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgcommand || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgwireless || http://sgwireless.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| shakti || http://cgi.algonet.se/htbin/cgiwrap/pgd/ShaktiWiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| shoppingwiki || http://shopping.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| simpsons || http://simpsons.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| sims || http://sims.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sitelibrary || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| skypeme || skype:$1?chat || 0 || (url not tested) || -
|-
| slashdot || http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| slektami || http://slektami.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| smarteam || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| smikipedia || http://www.smikipedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| smw || http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| socialism || http://socialism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sockwiki || http://wiki.socklabs.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| solarconquest	|| http://SolarConquest.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sosdancn || http://wiki.sosdancn.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sourceforge || http://sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sourcewatch || http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| spankart || http://spankingartwiki.animeotk.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sport	|| http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sports || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| squeak || http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| srpstvo || http://Srpstvo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ssb || http://www.ssbwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| stargate || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| startrekwiki || http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| starwars || http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fully operational || -
|-
| storypedia || http://Storypedia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| stpete || http://stpete.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| strategywiki || http://strategywiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| strikiwiki || http://ch.twi.tudelft.nl/~mostert/striki/teststriki.pl?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| suceavacounty || http://Suceava.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| suisse || http://suisse.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sunrisesunset || http://sunrisesunset.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| superstar || http://superstar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || czech
|-
| susning || http://www.susning.nu/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|-
| svgwiki || http://wiki.svg.org/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| svtwiki || http://SVT.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| swtrain || http://train.spottingworld.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s || http://www.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[s:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| search || http://search.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| seeds || http://www.IslandSeeds.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| software || http://software.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| startup || http://startup.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| students || http://students.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 't'===

Round 20. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 't', except for these 3:
* town-titles, townn-titles, translation

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[translation:" or "translation:" so I have to look at hits for "translation" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"town-titles" and "townn-titles" have special characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

"tvtropes" was special. I found 4 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. However, 2 of them did not work, because tvtropes re-organized their articles; and were not fixable, because our interwiki link points to the Main section of tvtropes and they moved their article on NetHack to the VideoGame section. And then I saw that our article on tvtropes had obsolete information, so I updated that article, added references, and so on. At the end of my editing session, there were 0 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, so you can delete the interwiki link now. tvtropes certainly has a way of engaging people for longer than they planned.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| tablature || http://tablature.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| talisman || http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Top Live Casino || already done, expedited deletion
|-
| tardis || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tavi || http://tavi.sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| techcompare || http://TechCompare.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tejo || http://www.tejo.org/vikio/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| terrorwiki || http://www.liberalsagainstterrorism.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || How To Grow Your Small Business Into a Large Business || -
|-
| tesoltaiwan || http://www.tesol-taiwan.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || no wiki, redirects to its main page || -
|-
| thelemapedia || http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| theopedia || http://www.theopedia.com/$1 || 0 || Not found || -
|-
| theowiki || http://www.theowiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_RESET || -
|-
| thinkwiki || http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| tianjin || http://Tianjin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tmbw || http://www.tmbw.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tmnet || http://www.technomanifestos.net/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| tmwiki || http://www.EasyTopicMaps.com/?page=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| toronto || http://toronto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tourism || http://tourism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| trains || http://trains.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transformers || http://tfwiki.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transhumanism || http://transhumanism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tricities || http://huntricitiesde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| turismo || http://www.tejo.org/turismo/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| turriwiki || http://wiki.finfur.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || Fatal exception of type MWException || -
|-
| tvtropes || http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/$1 || 0 || operational || our interwiki link points to Main and their NetHack article is no longer in Main, so we no longer use any tvtropes:xxx interwiki links
|-
| twiki || http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| twistedwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/twisted/$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found on this site. || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| town-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| townn-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| translation || http://translation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'u'===

Round 21. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'u', except for this 1:
* university

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[university:" or "university:" so I have to look at hits for "university" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| uea || http://www.tejo.org/uea/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| ufology || http://ufology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukrailways || http://ukrailways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukroads || http://ukroads.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| uncyclopedia || http://www.uncyclopedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || File not found (404 error) || uncyclopedia moved. I changed all 1 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[uncyclopedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to use direct https to current location.
|-
| universitywikinodewiki || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| unreal || http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ursine || http://ursine.ca/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| usej || http://www.tejo.org/usej/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| utopia || http://Utopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| university || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'v'===
Round 22. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'v'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (v) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| vancouver || http://vancouver.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| vanishedlibrary || http://VanishedLibrary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| vegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| villagearts || http://www.Village-Arts.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| vinismo || http://vinismo.com/en/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| virtualpets || http://VirtualPets.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| virus || http://virus.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| visualworks || http://wiki.cs.uiuc.edu/VisualWorks/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| vlaamseklantenbrussel	|| http://vlaamseklantenbrussel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| voterice || http://voterice.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (v) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'v'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 16:16, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
::Still need to delete: vancouver, vanishedlibrary [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 19:54, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
:::Thought I'd gotten them with the rest - cleared out now. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 20:07, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
::::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 20:10, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'w'===

Round 23. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'w', except for these 12:
* w, why, wiki, wikia, wikibooks, wikicities, wikimedia, wikinfo, wikipedia, wikt, wiktionary, worlds

Some of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[w:" or "w:" so I have to look at hits for "w" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (w) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| w:c:academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| w:c:wowwiki || http://www.wowwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| warpedview || http://www.warpedview.com/mediawiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| warzone2100 || http://warzone2100.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| webdevwikinl || http://www.promo-it.nl/WebDevWiki/index.php?page=$1 || 0 || De website die u probeert te vinden is niet bereikbaar || dutch
|-
| webisodes || http://www.webisodes.org/$1 || 0 || HTTP Status: 404 (not found) || -
|-
| webseitzwiki || http://webseitz.fluxent.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| westport || http://Westport.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| whitewolf || http://whiteWolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiablog || http://blogs.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiaentertainment || http://entertainment.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiagaming || http://gaming.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiahelp || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikianswers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wikible || http://www.wikible.org/en/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| wikicomedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikif1 || http://www.wikif1.org/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| wikifur || http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikihelp || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikihow || http://www.wikihow.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiindex || http://wikiindex.com/$1 || 0 || 504 Gateway Time-out || -
|-
| wikimac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikimon || http://wikimon.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikimoon || http://wikimoon.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikinews || http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiquote || http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikirps || http://www.wikirps.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| wikiscum || http://scum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikisource || http://wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikispecies || http://species.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikitravel || http://wikitravel.org/en/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiversity || http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikivoyage || http://www.wikivoyage.org/general/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiworld || http://WikiWorld.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Parse error: syntax error, unexpected 'Namespace' (T_NAMESPACE), expecting identifier (T_STRING) in /var/www/vhosts/wikiworld.com/httpdocs/wiki/includes/Namespace.php on line 46 || -
|-
| windsurfing || http://windsurfing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wlp || http://wlp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wlug || http://www.wlug.org.nz/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wnc || http://wnc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| worldcitizen || http://worldcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wowwiki || http://www.wowwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (w) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| w || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 6+ known uses|| operational || we have 6+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| why || http://clublet.com/c/c/why?$1 || unsearchable || (domain for sale) || -
|-
| wiki || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| wikia || http://www.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| wikibooks || http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/$1 || 3 || operational || we have 3 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikibooks:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikicities || http://www.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 1 || main page of fandom.com || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikicities:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikimedia || http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| wikinfo || http://www.wikinfo.org/index.php/$1 || 2 || wikinfo exists but rearranged site || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikipedia || http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, many || operational || we have many &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikt || http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikt:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wiktionary || http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/$1 || 3 || operational || we have 3 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wiktionary:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| worlds || http://worlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'x', 'y', or 'z'===

Round 24. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'x', 'y', or 'z', except for these 5:
* x-files, zh.anime, zh.mac, zh.wikimac, zzz wiki

These 5 prefixes have special characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (x), (y), and (z) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| xao || http://XAO.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ypsieyeball || http://sknkwrks.dyndns.org:1957/writewiki/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| zeldapendium || http://www.zeldapendium.de/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| zeldawiki || http://zeldawiki.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| zemirot || http://zemirotdatabase.org/view_song.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| zhmusic || http://zh.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| zwiki	|| http://zwiki.org/$1 || 0 || zwiki.org link broken #6 || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (x), (y), and (z) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| x-files || http://x-files.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| zh.anime || http://zh.anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zh.mac || http://zh.mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zh.wikimac || http://zh.mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zzz wiki || http://wiki.zzz.ee/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|}

:In regards to specifically Zeldawiki, I think that one is likely to be worth keeping because we do have at least a few Zelda-inspired monsters, possibly among other stuff (see [[garo]], which also need a presentability pass but there you go). The rest of the "delete" table can go without contest. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 16:15, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

::I am fine with keeping Zeldawiki and others at your discretion. Just make notes like the above, delete the others, mark issue resolved. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 18:03, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with other first characters===

Round 25. This is the final round.

I would like to request that an admin delete many interwiki entries starting with other first characters except for these 2:
* Cache, Wikihack

Some of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[Cache:" or "Cache:" so I have to look at hits for "Cache" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (other first character) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| 3dgame || http://3dgame.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| AwarenessWiki || http://taoriver.net/aware/$1 || 0 || ERR_ADDRESS_UNREACHABLE || -
|-
| Legowiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Lego-Robotics/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (other first character) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| Cache	|| http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| Wikihack || http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:$1 || unsearchable, 2+ known uses || operational || we have 2+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Wikihack:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==
{{resolved top}}
These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::I can undelete pages accordingly if need be, but this seems like a fine enough idea - I don't want it to be ''too'' short, though, just meaty enough that it can serve as a source-diving aid of sorts without getting too into the weeds. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

:: Huh. This sounds like a good idea. They would be little disambiguation articles, with links at the bottom for 3.4.3, 3.6.7, 3.7-dev, and even for variant source code. They wouldn't have line numbers or functions. And if someone writes &lt;nowiki&gt;[[src/mon.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; in a talk page, then the page won't get stale when a new version comes out, people who read source code can figure out that a comment from 2013 was talking about to the 3.4.3 version, especially if there is a link somewhere to a quickie list of release dates. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

This is more complicated than I thought. For example, NetHackWiki has 14 files and 15 redirects for the source file "dogmove.c". I would like to digest the current scheme before making proposals and carrying out sweeps. Interested editors are invited to read and comment on [[User:Furey/How many copies of dogmove.c?]].

Meanwhile, I withdraw this proposal. I'll come back with rewritten proposals if I can get some consensus on my "how many copies" page. I am still fixing pages that link to ''wrong'' source versions.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:15, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}</text>
      <sha1>qkiutec9c9o8bckpe0gxmdp0nwg5ier</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>172837</id>
      <parentid>172625</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-29T11:05:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>ScienceBall</username>
        <id>4001468</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'x', 'y', or 'z' */ Independent Zeldawiki</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="122682">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience.

To give further context: below is a series of interwiki links [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5#Wikia Links|that were slated to be dealt with]] after the move to MediaWiki, but it fell to the wayside for more than a decade before another user decided to draw attention to the matter. Below is a series of lists meant to expedite the process and finish what was meant to be done back in 2011.

--[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC) [Original Message: 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:05, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:18, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

{{resolved top}}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===
Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 13:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'r'===

Round 18. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'r', except for these 4:
* religion, religion-wiki, reviews, roguebasin

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[religion:" or "religion:" so I have to look at hits for "religion" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| radioscanning || http://radioscanning.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| raec || http://www.raec.clacso.edu.ar:8080/raec/Members/raecpedia/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| realestate || http://realestate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reallifesoap || http://rls.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| republiconline || http://RepublicOnline.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| revo || http://purl.org/NET/voko/revo/art/$1.html || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| rfc || https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| roadcycling || http://RoadCycling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| robotbattle || http://RobotBattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rollercoastertycoon || http://rct.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| romhack || http://romhack.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| royalisme || http://Royalisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rpg || http://rpg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ru.townn-titles || http://ru.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| runescape || http://RuneScape.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| russianworld || http://russianworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| religion || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| religion-wiki || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reviews || http://reviews.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| roguebasin || https://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=$1 || unsearchable, 10+ known uses || operational || we have 10+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[roguebasin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 's'===

Round 19. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 's', except for these 6:
* s, search, seeds, software, startup, students

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[search:" or "search:" so I have to look at hits for "search" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"s" has at least one use.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s23wiki || http://is-root.de/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Buy this domain. || -
|-
| sageswiki || http://sages.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sagewiki || http://sage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| salmesykkel || http://salmesykkel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| samplitude || http://Samplitude.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sandiego || http://sandiego.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sanfranciscowiki || http://sanfrancisco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sca21 || http://sca21.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| schoolcomputing || http://SchoolComputing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| schools || http://schools.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scoop	|| http://scoop.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scouting || http://scouting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| scoutpedia || http://www.scoutpedia.info/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| scratchpad || http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| scriptingwiki || http://scripting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| seapig || http://www.seapig.org/$1 || 0 || Save Money on Shared or Dedicated Hosting || -
|-
| seattlewiki || http://seattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| seattlewireless || http://seattlewireless.net/?$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| seldonshand || http://seldonhand.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| semweb || http://semweb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| senseislibrary || http://senseis.xmp.net/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgcommand || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgwireless || http://sgwireless.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| shakti || http://cgi.algonet.se/htbin/cgiwrap/pgd/ShaktiWiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| shoppingwiki || http://shopping.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| simpsons || http://simpsons.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| sims || http://sims.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sitelibrary || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| skypeme || skype:$1?chat || 0 || (url not tested) || -
|-
| slashdot || http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| slektami || http://slektami.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| smarteam || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| smikipedia || http://www.smikipedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| smw || http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| socialism || http://socialism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sockwiki || http://wiki.socklabs.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| solarconquest	|| http://SolarConquest.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sosdancn || http://wiki.sosdancn.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sourceforge || http://sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sourcewatch || http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| spankart || http://spankingartwiki.animeotk.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sport	|| http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sports || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| squeak || http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| srpstvo || http://Srpstvo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ssb || http://www.ssbwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| stargate || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| startrekwiki || http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| starwars || http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fully operational || -
|-
| storypedia || http://Storypedia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| stpete || http://stpete.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| strategywiki || http://strategywiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| strikiwiki || http://ch.twi.tudelft.nl/~mostert/striki/teststriki.pl?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| suceavacounty || http://Suceava.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| suisse || http://suisse.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sunrisesunset || http://sunrisesunset.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| superstar || http://superstar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || czech
|-
| susning || http://www.susning.nu/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|-
| svgwiki || http://wiki.svg.org/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| svtwiki || http://SVT.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| swtrain || http://train.spottingworld.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s || http://www.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[s:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| search || http://search.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| seeds || http://www.IslandSeeds.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| software || http://software.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| startup || http://startup.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| students || http://students.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 't'===

Round 20. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 't', except for these 3:
* town-titles, townn-titles, translation

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[translation:" or "translation:" so I have to look at hits for "translation" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"town-titles" and "townn-titles" have special characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

"tvtropes" was special. I found 4 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. However, 2 of them did not work, because tvtropes re-organized their articles; and were not fixable, because our interwiki link points to the Main section of tvtropes and they moved their article on NetHack to the VideoGame section. And then I saw that our article on tvtropes had obsolete information, so I updated that article, added references, and so on. At the end of my editing session, there were 0 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, so you can delete the interwiki link now. tvtropes certainly has a way of engaging people for longer than they planned.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| tablature || http://tablature.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| talisman || http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Top Live Casino || already done, expedited deletion
|-
| tardis || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tavi || http://tavi.sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| techcompare || http://TechCompare.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tejo || http://www.tejo.org/vikio/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| terrorwiki || http://www.liberalsagainstterrorism.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || How To Grow Your Small Business Into a Large Business || -
|-
| tesoltaiwan || http://www.tesol-taiwan.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || no wiki, redirects to its main page || -
|-
| thelemapedia || http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| theopedia || http://www.theopedia.com/$1 || 0 || Not found || -
|-
| theowiki || http://www.theowiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_RESET || -
|-
| thinkwiki || http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| tianjin || http://Tianjin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tmbw || http://www.tmbw.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tmnet || http://www.technomanifestos.net/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| tmwiki || http://www.EasyTopicMaps.com/?page=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| toronto || http://toronto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tourism || http://tourism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| trains || http://trains.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transformers || http://tfwiki.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transhumanism || http://transhumanism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tricities || http://huntricitiesde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| turismo || http://www.tejo.org/turismo/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| turriwiki || http://wiki.finfur.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || Fatal exception of type MWException || -
|-
| tvtropes || http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/$1 || 0 || operational || our interwiki link points to Main and their NetHack article is no longer in Main, so we no longer use any tvtropes:xxx interwiki links
|-
| twiki || http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| twistedwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/twisted/$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found on this site. || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| town-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| townn-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| translation || http://translation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'u'===

Round 21. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'u', except for this 1:
* university

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[university:" or "university:" so I have to look at hits for "university" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| uea || http://www.tejo.org/uea/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| ufology || http://ufology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukrailways || http://ukrailways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukroads || http://ukroads.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| uncyclopedia || http://www.uncyclopedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || File not found (404 error) || uncyclopedia moved. I changed all 1 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[uncyclopedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to use direct https to current location.
|-
| universitywikinodewiki || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| unreal || http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ursine || http://ursine.ca/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| usej || http://www.tejo.org/usej/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| utopia || http://Utopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| university || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'v'===
Round 22. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'v'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (v) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| vancouver || http://vancouver.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| vanishedlibrary || http://VanishedLibrary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| vegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| villagearts || http://www.Village-Arts.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| vinismo || http://vinismo.com/en/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| virtualpets || http://VirtualPets.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| virus || http://virus.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| visualworks || http://wiki.cs.uiuc.edu/VisualWorks/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| vlaamseklantenbrussel	|| http://vlaamseklantenbrussel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| voterice || http://voterice.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (v) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'v'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 16:16, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
::Still need to delete: vancouver, vanishedlibrary [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 19:54, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
:::Thought I'd gotten them with the rest - cleared out now. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 20:07, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
::::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 20:10, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'w'===

Round 23. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'w', except for these 12:
* w, why, wiki, wikia, wikibooks, wikicities, wikimedia, wikinfo, wikipedia, wikt, wiktionary, worlds

Some of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[w:" or "w:" so I have to look at hits for "w" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (w) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| w:c:academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| w:c:wowwiki || http://www.wowwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| warpedview || http://www.warpedview.com/mediawiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| warzone2100 || http://warzone2100.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| webdevwikinl || http://www.promo-it.nl/WebDevWiki/index.php?page=$1 || 0 || De website die u probeert te vinden is niet bereikbaar || dutch
|-
| webisodes || http://www.webisodes.org/$1 || 0 || HTTP Status: 404 (not found) || -
|-
| webseitzwiki || http://webseitz.fluxent.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| westport || http://Westport.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| whitewolf || http://whiteWolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiablog || http://blogs.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiaentertainment || http://entertainment.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiagaming || http://gaming.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiahelp || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikianswers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wikible || http://www.wikible.org/en/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| wikicomedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikif1 || http://www.wikif1.org/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| wikifur || http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikihelp || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikihow || http://www.wikihow.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiindex || http://wikiindex.com/$1 || 0 || 504 Gateway Time-out || -
|-
| wikimac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikimon || http://wikimon.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikimoon || http://wikimoon.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikinews || http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiquote || http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikirps || http://www.wikirps.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| wikiscum || http://scum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikisource || http://wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikispecies || http://species.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikitravel || http://wikitravel.org/en/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiversity || http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikivoyage || http://www.wikivoyage.org/general/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiworld || http://WikiWorld.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Parse error: syntax error, unexpected 'Namespace' (T_NAMESPACE), expecting identifier (T_STRING) in /var/www/vhosts/wikiworld.com/httpdocs/wiki/includes/Namespace.php on line 46 || -
|-
| windsurfing || http://windsurfing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wlp || http://wlp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wlug || http://www.wlug.org.nz/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wnc || http://wnc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| worldcitizen || http://worldcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wowwiki || http://www.wowwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (w) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| w || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 6+ known uses|| operational || we have 6+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| why || http://clublet.com/c/c/why?$1 || unsearchable || (domain for sale) || -
|-
| wiki || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| wikia || http://www.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| wikibooks || http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/$1 || 3 || operational || we have 3 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikibooks:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikicities || http://www.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 1 || main page of fandom.com || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikicities:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikimedia || http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| wikinfo || http://www.wikinfo.org/index.php/$1 || 2 || wikinfo exists but rearranged site || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikipedia || http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, many || operational || we have many &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikt || http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikt:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wiktionary || http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/$1 || 3 || operational || we have 3 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wiktionary:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| worlds || http://worlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'x', 'y', or 'z'===

Round 24. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'x', 'y', or 'z', except for these 5:
* x-files, zh.anime, zh.mac, zh.wikimac, zzz wiki

These 5 prefixes have special characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (x), (y), and (z) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| xao || http://XAO.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ypsieyeball || http://sknkwrks.dyndns.org:1957/writewiki/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| zeldapendium || http://www.zeldapendium.de/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| zeldawiki || http://zeldawiki.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| zemirot || http://zemirotdatabase.org/view_song.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| zhmusic || http://zh.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| zwiki	|| http://zwiki.org/$1 || 0 || zwiki.org link broken #6 || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (x), (y), and (z) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| x-files || http://x-files.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| zh.anime || http://zh.anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zh.mac || http://zh.mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zh.wikimac || http://zh.mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zzz wiki || http://wiki.zzz.ee/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|}

:In regards to specifically Zeldawiki, I think that one is likely to be worth keeping because we do have at least a few Zelda-inspired monsters, possibly among other stuff (see [[garo]], which also need a presentability pass but there you go). The rest of the "delete" table can go without contest. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 16:15, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
::I am fine with keeping Zeldawiki and others at your discretion. Just make notes like the above, delete the others, mark issue resolved. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 18:03, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
::Regarding Zeldawiki, the current interwiki link (zeldawiki.org) goes to the Fandom wiki. I think it might be better to link to the independent wiki, which is at https://zeldawiki.wiki/wiki/Main_Page. From what I recall, I think it's the same wiki team, who moved away from Fandom? --[[User:ScienceBall|ScienceBall]] ([[User talk:ScienceBall|talk]]) 11:05, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with other first characters===

Round 25. This is the final round.

I would like to request that an admin delete many interwiki entries starting with other first characters except for these 2:
* Cache, Wikihack

Some of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[Cache:" or "Cache:" so I have to look at hits for "Cache" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (other first character) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| 3dgame || http://3dgame.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| AwarenessWiki || http://taoriver.net/aware/$1 || 0 || ERR_ADDRESS_UNREACHABLE || -
|-
| Legowiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Lego-Robotics/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (other first character) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| Cache	|| http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| Wikihack || http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:$1 || unsearchable, 2+ known uses || operational || we have 2+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Wikihack:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==
{{resolved top}}
These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::I can undelete pages accordingly if need be, but this seems like a fine enough idea - I don't want it to be ''too'' short, though, just meaty enough that it can serve as a source-diving aid of sorts without getting too into the weeds. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

:: Huh. This sounds like a good idea. They would be little disambiguation articles, with links at the bottom for 3.4.3, 3.6.7, 3.7-dev, and even for variant source code. They wouldn't have line numbers or functions. And if someone writes &lt;nowiki&gt;[[src/mon.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; in a talk page, then the page won't get stale when a new version comes out, people who read source code can figure out that a comment from 2013 was talking about to the 3.4.3 version, especially if there is a link somewhere to a quickie list of release dates. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

This is more complicated than I thought. For example, NetHackWiki has 14 files and 15 redirects for the source file "dogmove.c". I would like to digest the current scheme before making proposals and carrying out sweeps. Interested editors are invited to read and comment on [[User:Furey/How many copies of dogmove.c?]].

Meanwhile, I withdraw this proposal. I'll come back with rewritten proposals if I can get some consensus on my "how many copies" page. I am still fixing pages that link to ''wrong'' source versions.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:15, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}</text>
      <sha1>fsnudbi5rwweqijwq25kfh7d0a99p98</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>172838</id>
      <parentid>172837</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-29T11:13:34Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Umbire the Phantom</username>
        <id>4001279</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>reply</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="123057">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience.

To give further context: below is a series of interwiki links [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5#Wikia Links|that were slated to be dealt with]] after the move to MediaWiki, but it fell to the wayside for more than a decade before another user decided to draw attention to the matter. Below is a series of lists meant to expedite the process and finish what was meant to be done back in 2011.

--[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC) [Original Message: 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:05, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:18, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

{{resolved top}}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===
Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 13:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'r'===

Round 18. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'r', except for these 4:
* religion, religion-wiki, reviews, roguebasin

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[religion:" or "religion:" so I have to look at hits for "religion" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| radioscanning || http://radioscanning.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| raec || http://www.raec.clacso.edu.ar:8080/raec/Members/raecpedia/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| realestate || http://realestate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reallifesoap || http://rls.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| republiconline || http://RepublicOnline.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| revo || http://purl.org/NET/voko/revo/art/$1.html || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| rfc || https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| roadcycling || http://RoadCycling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| robotbattle || http://RobotBattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rollercoastertycoon || http://rct.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| romhack || http://romhack.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| royalisme || http://Royalisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rpg || http://rpg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ru.townn-titles || http://ru.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| runescape || http://RuneScape.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| russianworld || http://russianworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| religion || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| religion-wiki || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reviews || http://reviews.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| roguebasin || https://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=$1 || unsearchable, 10+ known uses || operational || we have 10+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[roguebasin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 's'===

Round 19. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 's', except for these 6:
* s, search, seeds, software, startup, students

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[search:" or "search:" so I have to look at hits for "search" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"s" has at least one use.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s23wiki || http://is-root.de/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Buy this domain. || -
|-
| sageswiki || http://sages.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sagewiki || http://sage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| salmesykkel || http://salmesykkel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| samplitude || http://Samplitude.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sandiego || http://sandiego.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sanfranciscowiki || http://sanfrancisco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sca21 || http://sca21.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| schoolcomputing || http://SchoolComputing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| schools || http://schools.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scoop	|| http://scoop.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scouting || http://scouting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| scoutpedia || http://www.scoutpedia.info/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| scratchpad || http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| scriptingwiki || http://scripting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| seapig || http://www.seapig.org/$1 || 0 || Save Money on Shared or Dedicated Hosting || -
|-
| seattlewiki || http://seattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| seattlewireless || http://seattlewireless.net/?$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| seldonshand || http://seldonhand.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| semweb || http://semweb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| senseislibrary || http://senseis.xmp.net/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgcommand || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgwireless || http://sgwireless.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| shakti || http://cgi.algonet.se/htbin/cgiwrap/pgd/ShaktiWiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| shoppingwiki || http://shopping.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| simpsons || http://simpsons.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| sims || http://sims.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sitelibrary || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| skypeme || skype:$1?chat || 0 || (url not tested) || -
|-
| slashdot || http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| slektami || http://slektami.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| smarteam || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| smikipedia || http://www.smikipedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| smw || http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| socialism || http://socialism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sockwiki || http://wiki.socklabs.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| solarconquest	|| http://SolarConquest.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sosdancn || http://wiki.sosdancn.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sourceforge || http://sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sourcewatch || http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| spankart || http://spankingartwiki.animeotk.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sport	|| http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sports || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| squeak || http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| srpstvo || http://Srpstvo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ssb || http://www.ssbwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| stargate || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| startrekwiki || http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| starwars || http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fully operational || -
|-
| storypedia || http://Storypedia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| stpete || http://stpete.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| strategywiki || http://strategywiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| strikiwiki || http://ch.twi.tudelft.nl/~mostert/striki/teststriki.pl?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| suceavacounty || http://Suceava.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| suisse || http://suisse.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sunrisesunset || http://sunrisesunset.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| superstar || http://superstar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || czech
|-
| susning || http://www.susning.nu/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|-
| svgwiki || http://wiki.svg.org/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| svtwiki || http://SVT.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| swtrain || http://train.spottingworld.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s || http://www.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[s:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| search || http://search.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| seeds || http://www.IslandSeeds.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| software || http://software.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| startup || http://startup.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| students || http://students.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 't'===

Round 20. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 't', except for these 3:
* town-titles, townn-titles, translation

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[translation:" or "translation:" so I have to look at hits for "translation" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"town-titles" and "townn-titles" have special characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

"tvtropes" was special. I found 4 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. However, 2 of them did not work, because tvtropes re-organized their articles; and were not fixable, because our interwiki link points to the Main section of tvtropes and they moved their article on NetHack to the VideoGame section. And then I saw that our article on tvtropes had obsolete information, so I updated that article, added references, and so on. At the end of my editing session, there were 0 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, so you can delete the interwiki link now. tvtropes certainly has a way of engaging people for longer than they planned.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| tablature || http://tablature.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| talisman || http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Top Live Casino || already done, expedited deletion
|-
| tardis || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tavi || http://tavi.sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| techcompare || http://TechCompare.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tejo || http://www.tejo.org/vikio/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| terrorwiki || http://www.liberalsagainstterrorism.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || How To Grow Your Small Business Into a Large Business || -
|-
| tesoltaiwan || http://www.tesol-taiwan.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || no wiki, redirects to its main page || -
|-
| thelemapedia || http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| theopedia || http://www.theopedia.com/$1 || 0 || Not found || -
|-
| theowiki || http://www.theowiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_RESET || -
|-
| thinkwiki || http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| tianjin || http://Tianjin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tmbw || http://www.tmbw.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tmnet || http://www.technomanifestos.net/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| tmwiki || http://www.EasyTopicMaps.com/?page=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| toronto || http://toronto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tourism || http://tourism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| trains || http://trains.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transformers || http://tfwiki.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transhumanism || http://transhumanism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tricities || http://huntricitiesde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| turismo || http://www.tejo.org/turismo/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| turriwiki || http://wiki.finfur.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || Fatal exception of type MWException || -
|-
| tvtropes || http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/$1 || 0 || operational || our interwiki link points to Main and their NetHack article is no longer in Main, so we no longer use any tvtropes:xxx interwiki links
|-
| twiki || http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| twistedwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/twisted/$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found on this site. || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| town-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| townn-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| translation || http://translation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'u'===

Round 21. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'u', except for this 1:
* university

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[university:" or "university:" so I have to look at hits for "university" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| uea || http://www.tejo.org/uea/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| ufology || http://ufology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukrailways || http://ukrailways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukroads || http://ukroads.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| uncyclopedia || http://www.uncyclopedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || File not found (404 error) || uncyclopedia moved. I changed all 1 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[uncyclopedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to use direct https to current location.
|-
| universitywikinodewiki || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| unreal || http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ursine || http://ursine.ca/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| usej || http://www.tejo.org/usej/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| utopia || http://Utopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| university || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'v'===
Round 22. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'v'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (v) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| vancouver || http://vancouver.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| vanishedlibrary || http://VanishedLibrary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| vegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| villagearts || http://www.Village-Arts.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| vinismo || http://vinismo.com/en/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| virtualpets || http://VirtualPets.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| virus || http://virus.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| visualworks || http://wiki.cs.uiuc.edu/VisualWorks/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| vlaamseklantenbrussel	|| http://vlaamseklantenbrussel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| voterice || http://voterice.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (v) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'v'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 16:16, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
::Still need to delete: vancouver, vanishedlibrary [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 19:54, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
:::Thought I'd gotten them with the rest - cleared out now. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 20:07, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
::::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 20:10, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'w'===

Round 23. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'w', except for these 12:
* w, why, wiki, wikia, wikibooks, wikicities, wikimedia, wikinfo, wikipedia, wikt, wiktionary, worlds

Some of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[w:" or "w:" so I have to look at hits for "w" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (w) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| w:c:academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| w:c:wowwiki || http://www.wowwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| warpedview || http://www.warpedview.com/mediawiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| warzone2100 || http://warzone2100.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| webdevwikinl || http://www.promo-it.nl/WebDevWiki/index.php?page=$1 || 0 || De website die u probeert te vinden is niet bereikbaar || dutch
|-
| webisodes || http://www.webisodes.org/$1 || 0 || HTTP Status: 404 (not found) || -
|-
| webseitzwiki || http://webseitz.fluxent.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| westport || http://Westport.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| whitewolf || http://whiteWolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiablog || http://blogs.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiaentertainment || http://entertainment.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiagaming || http://gaming.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiahelp || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikianswers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wikible || http://www.wikible.org/en/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| wikicomedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikif1 || http://www.wikif1.org/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| wikifur || http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikihelp || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikihow || http://www.wikihow.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiindex || http://wikiindex.com/$1 || 0 || 504 Gateway Time-out || -
|-
| wikimac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikimon || http://wikimon.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikimoon || http://wikimoon.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikinews || http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiquote || http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikirps || http://www.wikirps.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| wikiscum || http://scum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikisource || http://wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikispecies || http://species.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikitravel || http://wikitravel.org/en/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiversity || http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikivoyage || http://www.wikivoyage.org/general/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiworld || http://WikiWorld.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Parse error: syntax error, unexpected 'Namespace' (T_NAMESPACE), expecting identifier (T_STRING) in /var/www/vhosts/wikiworld.com/httpdocs/wiki/includes/Namespace.php on line 46 || -
|-
| windsurfing || http://windsurfing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wlp || http://wlp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wlug || http://www.wlug.org.nz/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wnc || http://wnc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| worldcitizen || http://worldcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wowwiki || http://www.wowwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (w) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| w || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 6+ known uses|| operational || we have 6+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| why || http://clublet.com/c/c/why?$1 || unsearchable || (domain for sale) || -
|-
| wiki || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| wikia || http://www.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| wikibooks || http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/$1 || 3 || operational || we have 3 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikibooks:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikicities || http://www.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 1 || main page of fandom.com || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikicities:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikimedia || http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| wikinfo || http://www.wikinfo.org/index.php/$1 || 2 || wikinfo exists but rearranged site || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikipedia || http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, many || operational || we have many &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikt || http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikt:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wiktionary || http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/$1 || 3 || operational || we have 3 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wiktionary:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| worlds || http://worlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'x', 'y', or 'z'===

Round 24. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'x', 'y', or 'z', except for these 5:
* x-files, zh.anime, zh.mac, zh.wikimac, zzz wiki

These 5 prefixes have special characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (x), (y), and (z) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| xao || http://XAO.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ypsieyeball || http://sknkwrks.dyndns.org:1957/writewiki/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| zeldapendium || http://www.zeldapendium.de/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| zeldawiki || http://zeldawiki.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| zemirot || http://zemirotdatabase.org/view_song.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| zhmusic || http://zh.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| zwiki	|| http://zwiki.org/$1 || 0 || zwiki.org link broken #6 || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (x), (y), and (z) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| x-files || http://x-files.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| zh.anime || http://zh.anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zh.mac || http://zh.mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zh.wikimac || http://zh.mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zzz wiki || http://wiki.zzz.ee/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|}

:In regards to specifically Zeldawiki, I think that one is likely to be worth keeping because we do have at least a few Zelda-inspired monsters, possibly among other stuff (see [[garo]], which also need a presentability pass but there you go). The rest of the "delete" table can go without contest. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 16:15, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
::I am fine with keeping Zeldawiki and others at your discretion. Just make notes like the above, delete the others, mark issue resolved. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 18:03, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
::Regarding Zeldawiki, the current interwiki link (zeldawiki.org) goes to the Fandom wiki. I think it might be better to link to the independent wiki, which is at https://zeldawiki.wiki/wiki/Main_Page. From what I recall, I think it's the same wiki team, who moved away from Fandom? --[[User:ScienceBall|ScienceBall]] ([[User talk:ScienceBall|talk]]) 11:05, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
:::Correct. My idea was to maintain links to independent non-&lt;s&gt;Wikia&lt;/s&gt; Fandom™ wikis and edit or establish relevant interwiki entries accordingly while deleting the other unused ones - so far ZeldaWiki and Bulbapedia come to mind as "obvious" candidates. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:13, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with other first characters===

Round 25. This is the final round.

I would like to request that an admin delete many interwiki entries starting with other first characters except for these 2:
* Cache, Wikihack

Some of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[Cache:" or "Cache:" so I have to look at hits for "Cache" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (other first character) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| 3dgame || http://3dgame.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| AwarenessWiki || http://taoriver.net/aware/$1 || 0 || ERR_ADDRESS_UNREACHABLE || -
|-
| Legowiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Lego-Robotics/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (other first character) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| Cache	|| http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| Wikihack || http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:$1 || unsearchable, 2+ known uses || operational || we have 2+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Wikihack:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==
{{resolved top}}
These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::I can undelete pages accordingly if need be, but this seems like a fine enough idea - I don't want it to be ''too'' short, though, just meaty enough that it can serve as a source-diving aid of sorts without getting too into the weeds. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

:: Huh. This sounds like a good idea. They would be little disambiguation articles, with links at the bottom for 3.4.3, 3.6.7, 3.7-dev, and even for variant source code. They wouldn't have line numbers or functions. And if someone writes &lt;nowiki&gt;[[src/mon.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; in a talk page, then the page won't get stale when a new version comes out, people who read source code can figure out that a comment from 2013 was talking about to the 3.4.3 version, especially if there is a link somewhere to a quickie list of release dates. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

This is more complicated than I thought. For example, NetHackWiki has 14 files and 15 redirects for the source file "dogmove.c". I would like to digest the current scheme before making proposals and carrying out sweeps. Interested editors are invited to read and comment on [[User:Furey/How many copies of dogmove.c?]].

Meanwhile, I withdraw this proposal. I'll come back with rewritten proposals if I can get some consensus on my "how many copies" page. I am still fixing pages that link to ''wrong'' source versions.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:15, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}</text>
      <sha1>e99l6tvylourk1uvck9m7usufv9gvqs</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>173029</id>
      <parentid>172838</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-29T21:18:22Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Umbire the Phantom</username>
        <id>4001279</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'w' */ finished</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="123185">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
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Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience.

To give further context: below is a series of interwiki links [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5#Wikia Links|that were slated to be dealt with]] after the move to MediaWiki, but it fell to the wayside for more than a decade before another user decided to draw attention to the matter. Below is a series of lists meant to expedite the process and finish what was meant to be done back in 2011.

--[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC) [Original Message: 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:05, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:18, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

{{resolved top}}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===
Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 13:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'r'===

Round 18. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'r', except for these 4:
* religion, religion-wiki, reviews, roguebasin

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[religion:" or "religion:" so I have to look at hits for "religion" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| radioscanning || http://radioscanning.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| raec || http://www.raec.clacso.edu.ar:8080/raec/Members/raecpedia/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| realestate || http://realestate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reallifesoap || http://rls.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| republiconline || http://RepublicOnline.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| revo || http://purl.org/NET/voko/revo/art/$1.html || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| rfc || https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| roadcycling || http://RoadCycling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| robotbattle || http://RobotBattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rollercoastertycoon || http://rct.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| romhack || http://romhack.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| royalisme || http://Royalisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rpg || http://rpg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ru.townn-titles || http://ru.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| runescape || http://RuneScape.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| russianworld || http://russianworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| religion || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| religion-wiki || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reviews || http://reviews.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| roguebasin || https://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=$1 || unsearchable, 10+ known uses || operational || we have 10+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[roguebasin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 's'===

Round 19. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 's', except for these 6:
* s, search, seeds, software, startup, students

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[search:" or "search:" so I have to look at hits for "search" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"s" has at least one use.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s23wiki || http://is-root.de/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Buy this domain. || -
|-
| sageswiki || http://sages.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sagewiki || http://sage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| salmesykkel || http://salmesykkel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| samplitude || http://Samplitude.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sandiego || http://sandiego.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sanfranciscowiki || http://sanfrancisco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sca21 || http://sca21.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| schoolcomputing || http://SchoolComputing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| schools || http://schools.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scoop	|| http://scoop.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scouting || http://scouting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| scoutpedia || http://www.scoutpedia.info/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| scratchpad || http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| scriptingwiki || http://scripting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| seapig || http://www.seapig.org/$1 || 0 || Save Money on Shared or Dedicated Hosting || -
|-
| seattlewiki || http://seattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| seattlewireless || http://seattlewireless.net/?$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| seldonshand || http://seldonhand.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| semweb || http://semweb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| senseislibrary || http://senseis.xmp.net/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgcommand || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgwireless || http://sgwireless.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| shakti || http://cgi.algonet.se/htbin/cgiwrap/pgd/ShaktiWiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| shoppingwiki || http://shopping.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| simpsons || http://simpsons.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| sims || http://sims.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sitelibrary || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| skypeme || skype:$1?chat || 0 || (url not tested) || -
|-
| slashdot || http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| slektami || http://slektami.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| smarteam || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| smikipedia || http://www.smikipedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| smw || http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| socialism || http://socialism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sockwiki || http://wiki.socklabs.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| solarconquest	|| http://SolarConquest.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sosdancn || http://wiki.sosdancn.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sourceforge || http://sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sourcewatch || http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| spankart || http://spankingartwiki.animeotk.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sport	|| http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sports || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| squeak || http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| srpstvo || http://Srpstvo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ssb || http://www.ssbwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| stargate || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| startrekwiki || http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| starwars || http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fully operational || -
|-
| storypedia || http://Storypedia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| stpete || http://stpete.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| strategywiki || http://strategywiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| strikiwiki || http://ch.twi.tudelft.nl/~mostert/striki/teststriki.pl?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| suceavacounty || http://Suceava.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| suisse || http://suisse.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sunrisesunset || http://sunrisesunset.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| superstar || http://superstar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || czech
|-
| susning || http://www.susning.nu/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|-
| svgwiki || http://wiki.svg.org/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| svtwiki || http://SVT.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| swtrain || http://train.spottingworld.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s || http://www.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[s:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| search || http://search.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| seeds || http://www.IslandSeeds.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| software || http://software.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| startup || http://startup.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| students || http://students.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 't'===

Round 20. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 't', except for these 3:
* town-titles, townn-titles, translation

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[translation:" or "translation:" so I have to look at hits for "translation" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"town-titles" and "townn-titles" have special characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

"tvtropes" was special. I found 4 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. However, 2 of them did not work, because tvtropes re-organized their articles; and were not fixable, because our interwiki link points to the Main section of tvtropes and they moved their article on NetHack to the VideoGame section. And then I saw that our article on tvtropes had obsolete information, so I updated that article, added references, and so on. At the end of my editing session, there were 0 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, so you can delete the interwiki link now. tvtropes certainly has a way of engaging people for longer than they planned.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| tablature || http://tablature.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| talisman || http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Top Live Casino || already done, expedited deletion
|-
| tardis || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tavi || http://tavi.sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| techcompare || http://TechCompare.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tejo || http://www.tejo.org/vikio/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| terrorwiki || http://www.liberalsagainstterrorism.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || How To Grow Your Small Business Into a Large Business || -
|-
| tesoltaiwan || http://www.tesol-taiwan.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || no wiki, redirects to its main page || -
|-
| thelemapedia || http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| theopedia || http://www.theopedia.com/$1 || 0 || Not found || -
|-
| theowiki || http://www.theowiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_RESET || -
|-
| thinkwiki || http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| tianjin || http://Tianjin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tmbw || http://www.tmbw.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tmnet || http://www.technomanifestos.net/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| tmwiki || http://www.EasyTopicMaps.com/?page=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| toronto || http://toronto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tourism || http://tourism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| trains || http://trains.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transformers || http://tfwiki.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transhumanism || http://transhumanism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tricities || http://huntricitiesde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| turismo || http://www.tejo.org/turismo/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| turriwiki || http://wiki.finfur.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || Fatal exception of type MWException || -
|-
| tvtropes || http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/$1 || 0 || operational || our interwiki link points to Main and their NetHack article is no longer in Main, so we no longer use any tvtropes:xxx interwiki links
|-
| twiki || http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| twistedwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/twisted/$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found on this site. || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| town-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| townn-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| translation || http://translation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'u'===

Round 21. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'u', except for this 1:
* university

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[university:" or "university:" so I have to look at hits for "university" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| uea || http://www.tejo.org/uea/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| ufology || http://ufology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukrailways || http://ukrailways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukroads || http://ukroads.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| uncyclopedia || http://www.uncyclopedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || File not found (404 error) || uncyclopedia moved. I changed all 1 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[uncyclopedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to use direct https to current location.
|-
| universitywikinodewiki || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| unreal || http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ursine || http://ursine.ca/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| usej || http://www.tejo.org/usej/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| utopia || http://Utopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| university || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'v'===
Round 22. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'v'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (v) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| vancouver || http://vancouver.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| vanishedlibrary || http://VanishedLibrary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| vegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| villagearts || http://www.Village-Arts.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| vinismo || http://vinismo.com/en/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| virtualpets || http://VirtualPets.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| virus || http://virus.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| visualworks || http://wiki.cs.uiuc.edu/VisualWorks/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| vlaamseklantenbrussel	|| http://vlaamseklantenbrussel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| voterice || http://voterice.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (v) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'v'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 16:16, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
::Still need to delete: vancouver, vanishedlibrary [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 19:54, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
:::Thought I'd gotten them with the rest - cleared out now. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 20:07, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
::::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 20:10, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'w'===

Round 23. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'w', except for these 12:
* w, why, wiki, wikia, wikibooks, wikicities, wikimedia, wikinfo, wikipedia, wikt, wiktionary, worlds

Some of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[w:" or "w:" so I have to look at hits for "w" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (w) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| w:c:academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| w:c:wowwiki || http://www.wowwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| warpedview || http://www.warpedview.com/mediawiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| warzone2100 || http://warzone2100.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| webdevwikinl || http://www.promo-it.nl/WebDevWiki/index.php?page=$1 || 0 || De website die u probeert te vinden is niet bereikbaar || dutch
|-
| webisodes || http://www.webisodes.org/$1 || 0 || HTTP Status: 404 (not found) || -
|-
| webseitzwiki || http://webseitz.fluxent.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| westport || http://Westport.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| whitewolf || http://whiteWolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiablog || http://blogs.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiaentertainment || http://entertainment.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiagaming || http://gaming.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiahelp || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikianswers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wikible || http://www.wikible.org/en/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| wikicomedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikif1 || http://www.wikif1.org/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| wikifur || http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikihelp || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikihow || http://www.wikihow.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiindex || http://wikiindex.com/$1 || 0 || 504 Gateway Time-out || -
|-
| wikimac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikimon || http://wikimon.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikimoon || http://wikimoon.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikinews || http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiquote || http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikirps || http://www.wikirps.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| wikiscum || http://scum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikisource || http://wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikispecies || http://species.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikitravel || http://wikitravel.org/en/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiversity || http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikivoyage || http://www.wikivoyage.org/general/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiworld || http://WikiWorld.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Parse error: syntax error, unexpected 'Namespace' (T_NAMESPACE), expecting identifier (T_STRING) in /var/www/vhosts/wikiworld.com/httpdocs/wiki/includes/Namespace.php on line 46 || -
|-
| windsurfing || http://windsurfing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wlp || http://wlp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wlug || http://www.wlug.org.nz/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wnc || http://wnc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| worldcitizen || http://worldcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wowwiki || http://www.wowwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (w) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| w || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 6+ known uses|| operational || we have 6+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| why || http://clublet.com/c/c/why?$1 || unsearchable || (domain for sale) || -
|-
| wiki || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| wikia || http://www.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| wikibooks || http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/$1 || 3 || operational || we have 3 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikibooks:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikicities || http://www.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 1 || main page of fandom.com || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikicities:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikimedia || http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| wikinfo || http://www.wikinfo.org/index.php/$1 || 2 || wikinfo exists but rearranged site || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikipedia || http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, many || operational || we have many &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikt || http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikt:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wiktionary || http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/$1 || 3 || operational || we have 3 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wiktionary:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| worlds || http://worlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 21:18, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'x', 'y', or 'z'===

Round 24. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'x', 'y', or 'z', except for these 5:
* x-files, zh.anime, zh.mac, zh.wikimac, zzz wiki

These 5 prefixes have special characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (x), (y), and (z) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| xao || http://XAO.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ypsieyeball || http://sknkwrks.dyndns.org:1957/writewiki/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| zeldapendium || http://www.zeldapendium.de/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| zeldawiki || http://zeldawiki.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| zemirot || http://zemirotdatabase.org/view_song.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| zhmusic || http://zh.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| zwiki	|| http://zwiki.org/$1 || 0 || zwiki.org link broken #6 || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (x), (y), and (z) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| x-files || http://x-files.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| zh.anime || http://zh.anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zh.mac || http://zh.mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zh.wikimac || http://zh.mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zzz wiki || http://wiki.zzz.ee/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|}

:In regards to specifically Zeldawiki, I think that one is likely to be worth keeping because we do have at least a few Zelda-inspired monsters, possibly among other stuff (see [[garo]], which also need a presentability pass but there you go). The rest of the "delete" table can go without contest. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 16:15, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
::I am fine with keeping Zeldawiki and others at your discretion. Just make notes like the above, delete the others, mark issue resolved. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 18:03, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
::Regarding Zeldawiki, the current interwiki link (zeldawiki.org) goes to the Fandom wiki. I think it might be better to link to the independent wiki, which is at https://zeldawiki.wiki/wiki/Main_Page. From what I recall, I think it's the same wiki team, who moved away from Fandom? --[[User:ScienceBall|ScienceBall]] ([[User talk:ScienceBall|talk]]) 11:05, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
:::Correct. My idea was to maintain links to independent non-&lt;s&gt;Wikia&lt;/s&gt; Fandom™ wikis and edit or establish relevant interwiki entries accordingly while deleting the other unused ones - so far ZeldaWiki and Bulbapedia come to mind as "obvious" candidates. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:13, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with other first characters===

Round 25. This is the final round.

I would like to request that an admin delete many interwiki entries starting with other first characters except for these 2:
* Cache, Wikihack

Some of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[Cache:" or "Cache:" so I have to look at hits for "Cache" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (other first character) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| 3dgame || http://3dgame.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| AwarenessWiki || http://taoriver.net/aware/$1 || 0 || ERR_ADDRESS_UNREACHABLE || -
|-
| Legowiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Lego-Robotics/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (other first character) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| Cache	|| http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| Wikihack || http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:$1 || unsearchable, 2+ known uses || operational || we have 2+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Wikihack:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==
{{resolved top}}
These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::I can undelete pages accordingly if need be, but this seems like a fine enough idea - I don't want it to be ''too'' short, though, just meaty enough that it can serve as a source-diving aid of sorts without getting too into the weeds. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

:: Huh. This sounds like a good idea. They would be little disambiguation articles, with links at the bottom for 3.4.3, 3.6.7, 3.7-dev, and even for variant source code. They wouldn't have line numbers or functions. And if someone writes &lt;nowiki&gt;[[src/mon.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; in a talk page, then the page won't get stale when a new version comes out, people who read source code can figure out that a comment from 2013 was talking about to the 3.4.3 version, especially if there is a link somewhere to a quickie list of release dates. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

This is more complicated than I thought. For example, NetHackWiki has 14 files and 15 redirects for the source file "dogmove.c". I would like to digest the current scheme before making proposals and carrying out sweeps. Interested editors are invited to read and comment on [[User:Furey/How many copies of dogmove.c?]].

Meanwhile, I withdraw this proposal. I'll come back with rewritten proposals if I can get some consensus on my "how many copies" page. I am still fixing pages that link to ''wrong'' source versions.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:15, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}</text>
      <sha1>qld80rv2de44ph0ksc8pj6doop3mjyt</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>173030</id>
      <parentid>173029</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-29T21:19:56Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Umbire the Phantom</username>
        <id>4001279</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'x', 'y', or 'z' */ (mostly) done</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="123571">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience.

To give further context: below is a series of interwiki links [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5#Wikia Links|that were slated to be dealt with]] after the move to MediaWiki, but it fell to the wayside for more than a decade before another user decided to draw attention to the matter. Below is a series of lists meant to expedite the process and finish what was meant to be done back in 2011.

--[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC) [Original Message: 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:05, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:18, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

{{resolved top}}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===
Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 13:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'r'===

Round 18. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'r', except for these 4:
* religion, religion-wiki, reviews, roguebasin

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[religion:" or "religion:" so I have to look at hits for "religion" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| radioscanning || http://radioscanning.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| raec || http://www.raec.clacso.edu.ar:8080/raec/Members/raecpedia/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| realestate || http://realestate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reallifesoap || http://rls.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| republiconline || http://RepublicOnline.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| revo || http://purl.org/NET/voko/revo/art/$1.html || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| rfc || https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| roadcycling || http://RoadCycling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| robotbattle || http://RobotBattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rollercoastertycoon || http://rct.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| romhack || http://romhack.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| royalisme || http://Royalisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rpg || http://rpg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ru.townn-titles || http://ru.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| runescape || http://RuneScape.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| russianworld || http://russianworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| religion || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| religion-wiki || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reviews || http://reviews.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| roguebasin || https://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=$1 || unsearchable, 10+ known uses || operational || we have 10+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[roguebasin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 's'===

Round 19. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 's', except for these 6:
* s, search, seeds, software, startup, students

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[search:" or "search:" so I have to look at hits for "search" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"s" has at least one use.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s23wiki || http://is-root.de/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Buy this domain. || -
|-
| sageswiki || http://sages.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sagewiki || http://sage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| salmesykkel || http://salmesykkel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| samplitude || http://Samplitude.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sandiego || http://sandiego.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sanfranciscowiki || http://sanfrancisco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sca21 || http://sca21.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| schoolcomputing || http://SchoolComputing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| schools || http://schools.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scoop	|| http://scoop.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scouting || http://scouting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| scoutpedia || http://www.scoutpedia.info/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| scratchpad || http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| scriptingwiki || http://scripting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| seapig || http://www.seapig.org/$1 || 0 || Save Money on Shared or Dedicated Hosting || -
|-
| seattlewiki || http://seattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| seattlewireless || http://seattlewireless.net/?$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| seldonshand || http://seldonhand.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| semweb || http://semweb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| senseislibrary || http://senseis.xmp.net/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgcommand || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgwireless || http://sgwireless.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| shakti || http://cgi.algonet.se/htbin/cgiwrap/pgd/ShaktiWiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| shoppingwiki || http://shopping.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| simpsons || http://simpsons.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| sims || http://sims.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sitelibrary || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| skypeme || skype:$1?chat || 0 || (url not tested) || -
|-
| slashdot || http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| slektami || http://slektami.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| smarteam || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| smikipedia || http://www.smikipedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| smw || http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| socialism || http://socialism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sockwiki || http://wiki.socklabs.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| solarconquest	|| http://SolarConquest.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sosdancn || http://wiki.sosdancn.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sourceforge || http://sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sourcewatch || http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| spankart || http://spankingartwiki.animeotk.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sport	|| http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sports || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| squeak || http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| srpstvo || http://Srpstvo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ssb || http://www.ssbwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| stargate || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| startrekwiki || http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| starwars || http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fully operational || -
|-
| storypedia || http://Storypedia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| stpete || http://stpete.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| strategywiki || http://strategywiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| strikiwiki || http://ch.twi.tudelft.nl/~mostert/striki/teststriki.pl?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| suceavacounty || http://Suceava.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| suisse || http://suisse.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sunrisesunset || http://sunrisesunset.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| superstar || http://superstar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || czech
|-
| susning || http://www.susning.nu/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|-
| svgwiki || http://wiki.svg.org/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| svtwiki || http://SVT.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| swtrain || http://train.spottingworld.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s || http://www.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[s:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| search || http://search.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| seeds || http://www.IslandSeeds.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| software || http://software.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| startup || http://startup.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| students || http://students.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 't'===

Round 20. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 't', except for these 3:
* town-titles, townn-titles, translation

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[translation:" or "translation:" so I have to look at hits for "translation" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"town-titles" and "townn-titles" have special characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

"tvtropes" was special. I found 4 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. However, 2 of them did not work, because tvtropes re-organized their articles; and were not fixable, because our interwiki link points to the Main section of tvtropes and they moved their article on NetHack to the VideoGame section. And then I saw that our article on tvtropes had obsolete information, so I updated that article, added references, and so on. At the end of my editing session, there were 0 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, so you can delete the interwiki link now. tvtropes certainly has a way of engaging people for longer than they planned.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| tablature || http://tablature.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| talisman || http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Top Live Casino || already done, expedited deletion
|-
| tardis || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tavi || http://tavi.sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| techcompare || http://TechCompare.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tejo || http://www.tejo.org/vikio/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| terrorwiki || http://www.liberalsagainstterrorism.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || How To Grow Your Small Business Into a Large Business || -
|-
| tesoltaiwan || http://www.tesol-taiwan.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || no wiki, redirects to its main page || -
|-
| thelemapedia || http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| theopedia || http://www.theopedia.com/$1 || 0 || Not found || -
|-
| theowiki || http://www.theowiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_RESET || -
|-
| thinkwiki || http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| tianjin || http://Tianjin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tmbw || http://www.tmbw.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tmnet || http://www.technomanifestos.net/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| tmwiki || http://www.EasyTopicMaps.com/?page=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| toronto || http://toronto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tourism || http://tourism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| trains || http://trains.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transformers || http://tfwiki.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transhumanism || http://transhumanism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tricities || http://huntricitiesde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| turismo || http://www.tejo.org/turismo/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| turriwiki || http://wiki.finfur.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || Fatal exception of type MWException || -
|-
| tvtropes || http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/$1 || 0 || operational || our interwiki link points to Main and their NetHack article is no longer in Main, so we no longer use any tvtropes:xxx interwiki links
|-
| twiki || http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| twistedwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/twisted/$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found on this site. || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| town-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| townn-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| translation || http://translation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'u'===

Round 21. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'u', except for this 1:
* university

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[university:" or "university:" so I have to look at hits for "university" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| uea || http://www.tejo.org/uea/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| ufology || http://ufology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukrailways || http://ukrailways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukroads || http://ukroads.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| uncyclopedia || http://www.uncyclopedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || File not found (404 error) || uncyclopedia moved. I changed all 1 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[uncyclopedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to use direct https to current location.
|-
| universitywikinodewiki || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| unreal || http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ursine || http://ursine.ca/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| usej || http://www.tejo.org/usej/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| utopia || http://Utopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| university || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'v'===
Round 22. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'v'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (v) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| vancouver || http://vancouver.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| vanishedlibrary || http://VanishedLibrary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| vegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| villagearts || http://www.Village-Arts.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| vinismo || http://vinismo.com/en/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| virtualpets || http://VirtualPets.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| virus || http://virus.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| visualworks || http://wiki.cs.uiuc.edu/VisualWorks/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| vlaamseklantenbrussel	|| http://vlaamseklantenbrussel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| voterice || http://voterice.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (v) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'v'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 16:16, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
::Still need to delete: vancouver, vanishedlibrary [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 19:54, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
:::Thought I'd gotten them with the rest - cleared out now. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 20:07, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
::::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 20:10, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'w'===

Round 23. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'w', except for these 12:
* w, why, wiki, wikia, wikibooks, wikicities, wikimedia, wikinfo, wikipedia, wikt, wiktionary, worlds

Some of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[w:" or "w:" so I have to look at hits for "w" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (w) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| w:c:academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| w:c:wowwiki || http://www.wowwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| warpedview || http://www.warpedview.com/mediawiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| warzone2100 || http://warzone2100.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| webdevwikinl || http://www.promo-it.nl/WebDevWiki/index.php?page=$1 || 0 || De website die u probeert te vinden is niet bereikbaar || dutch
|-
| webisodes || http://www.webisodes.org/$1 || 0 || HTTP Status: 404 (not found) || -
|-
| webseitzwiki || http://webseitz.fluxent.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| westport || http://Westport.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| whitewolf || http://whiteWolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiablog || http://blogs.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiaentertainment || http://entertainment.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiagaming || http://gaming.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiahelp || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikianswers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wikible || http://www.wikible.org/en/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| wikicomedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikif1 || http://www.wikif1.org/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| wikifur || http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikihelp || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikihow || http://www.wikihow.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiindex || http://wikiindex.com/$1 || 0 || 504 Gateway Time-out || -
|-
| wikimac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikimon || http://wikimon.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikimoon || http://wikimoon.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikinews || http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiquote || http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikirps || http://www.wikirps.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| wikiscum || http://scum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikisource || http://wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikispecies || http://species.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikitravel || http://wikitravel.org/en/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiversity || http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikivoyage || http://www.wikivoyage.org/general/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiworld || http://WikiWorld.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Parse error: syntax error, unexpected 'Namespace' (T_NAMESPACE), expecting identifier (T_STRING) in /var/www/vhosts/wikiworld.com/httpdocs/wiki/includes/Namespace.php on line 46 || -
|-
| windsurfing || http://windsurfing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wlp || http://wlp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wlug || http://www.wlug.org.nz/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wnc || http://wnc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| worldcitizen || http://worldcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wowwiki || http://www.wowwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (w) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| w || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 6+ known uses|| operational || we have 6+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| why || http://clublet.com/c/c/why?$1 || unsearchable || (domain for sale) || -
|-
| wiki || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| wikia || http://www.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| wikibooks || http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/$1 || 3 || operational || we have 3 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikibooks:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikicities || http://www.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 1 || main page of fandom.com || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikicities:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikimedia || http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| wikinfo || http://www.wikinfo.org/index.php/$1 || 2 || wikinfo exists but rearranged site || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikipedia || http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, many || operational || we have many &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikt || http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikt:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wiktionary || http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/$1 || 3 || operational || we have 3 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wiktionary:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| worlds || http://worlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 21:18, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'x', 'y', or 'z'===

Round 24. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'x', 'y', or 'z', except for these 5:
* x-files, zh.anime, zh.mac, zh.wikimac, zzz wiki

These 5 prefixes have special characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (x), (y), and (z) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| xao || http://XAO.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ypsieyeball || http://sknkwrks.dyndns.org:1957/writewiki/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| zeldapendium || http://www.zeldapendium.de/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| zeldawiki || http://zeldawiki.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| zemirot || http://zemirotdatabase.org/view_song.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| zhmusic || http://zh.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| zwiki	|| http://zwiki.org/$1 || 0 || zwiki.org link broken #6 || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (x), (y), and (z) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| x-files || http://x-files.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| zh.anime || http://zh.anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zh.mac || http://zh.mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zh.wikimac || http://zh.mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zzz wiki || http://wiki.zzz.ee/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|}

:In regards to specifically Zeldawiki, I think that one is likely to be worth keeping because we do have at least a few Zelda-inspired monsters, possibly among other stuff (see [[garo]], which also need a presentability pass but there you go). The rest of the "delete" table can go without contest. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 16:15, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
::I am fine with keeping Zeldawiki and others at your discretion. Just make notes like the above, delete the others, mark issue resolved. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 18:03, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
::Regarding Zeldawiki, the current interwiki link (zeldawiki.org) goes to the Fandom wiki. I think it might be better to link to the independent wiki, which is at https://zeldawiki.wiki/wiki/Main_Page. From what I recall, I think it's the same wiki team, who moved away from Fandom? --[[User:ScienceBall|ScienceBall]] ([[User talk:ScienceBall|talk]]) 11:05, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
:::Correct. My idea was to maintain links to independent non-&lt;s&gt;Wikia&lt;/s&gt; Fandom™ wikis and edit or establish relevant interwiki entries accordingly while deleting the other unused ones - so far ZeldaWiki and Bulbapedia come to mind as "obvious" candidates. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:13, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed pending a judgment on zeldapendium - it's a German wiki on ''The Legend of Zelda'' that's distinct from ZeldaWiki but still part of the NIWA (independent alliance of Nintendo wikis), so I'm trying to figure out what that's about - the rest's been dealt with. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 21:19, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with other first characters===

Round 25. This is the final round.

I would like to request that an admin delete many interwiki entries starting with other first characters except for these 2:
* Cache, Wikihack

Some of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[Cache:" or "Cache:" so I have to look at hits for "Cache" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (other first character) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| 3dgame || http://3dgame.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| AwarenessWiki || http://taoriver.net/aware/$1 || 0 || ERR_ADDRESS_UNREACHABLE || -
|-
| Legowiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Lego-Robotics/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (other first character) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| Cache	|| http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| Wikihack || http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:$1 || unsearchable, 2+ known uses || operational || we have 2+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Wikihack:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==
{{resolved top}}
These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::I can undelete pages accordingly if need be, but this seems like a fine enough idea - I don't want it to be ''too'' short, though, just meaty enough that it can serve as a source-diving aid of sorts without getting too into the weeds. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

:: Huh. This sounds like a good idea. They would be little disambiguation articles, with links at the bottom for 3.4.3, 3.6.7, 3.7-dev, and even for variant source code. They wouldn't have line numbers or functions. And if someone writes &lt;nowiki&gt;[[src/mon.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; in a talk page, then the page won't get stale when a new version comes out, people who read source code can figure out that a comment from 2013 was talking about to the 3.4.3 version, especially if there is a link somewhere to a quickie list of release dates. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

This is more complicated than I thought. For example, NetHackWiki has 14 files and 15 redirects for the source file "dogmove.c". I would like to digest the current scheme before making proposals and carrying out sweeps. Interested editors are invited to read and comment on [[User:Furey/How many copies of dogmove.c?]].

Meanwhile, I withdraw this proposal. I'll come back with rewritten proposals if I can get some consensus on my "how many copies" page. I am still fixing pages that link to ''wrong'' source versions.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:15, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}</text>
      <sha1>i3cywgh78wmvs2fibkqj57zg4528b7x</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>173031</id>
      <parentid>173030</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-29T21:21:33Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Umbire the Phantom</username>
        <id>4001279</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with other first characters */</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="123699">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience.

To give further context: below is a series of interwiki links [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5#Wikia Links|that were slated to be dealt with]] after the move to MediaWiki, but it fell to the wayside for more than a decade before another user decided to draw attention to the matter. Below is a series of lists meant to expedite the process and finish what was meant to be done back in 2011.

--[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC) [Original Message: 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:05, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:18, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

{{resolved top}}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===
Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 13:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'r'===

Round 18. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'r', except for these 4:
* religion, religion-wiki, reviews, roguebasin

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[religion:" or "religion:" so I have to look at hits for "religion" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| radioscanning || http://radioscanning.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| raec || http://www.raec.clacso.edu.ar:8080/raec/Members/raecpedia/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| realestate || http://realestate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reallifesoap || http://rls.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| republiconline || http://RepublicOnline.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| revo || http://purl.org/NET/voko/revo/art/$1.html || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| rfc || https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| roadcycling || http://RoadCycling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| robotbattle || http://RobotBattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rollercoastertycoon || http://rct.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| romhack || http://romhack.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| royalisme || http://Royalisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rpg || http://rpg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ru.townn-titles || http://ru.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| runescape || http://RuneScape.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| russianworld || http://russianworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| religion || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| religion-wiki || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reviews || http://reviews.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| roguebasin || https://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=$1 || unsearchable, 10+ known uses || operational || we have 10+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[roguebasin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 's'===

Round 19. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 's', except for these 6:
* s, search, seeds, software, startup, students

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[search:" or "search:" so I have to look at hits for "search" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"s" has at least one use.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s23wiki || http://is-root.de/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Buy this domain. || -
|-
| sageswiki || http://sages.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sagewiki || http://sage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| salmesykkel || http://salmesykkel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| samplitude || http://Samplitude.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sandiego || http://sandiego.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sanfranciscowiki || http://sanfrancisco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sca21 || http://sca21.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| schoolcomputing || http://SchoolComputing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| schools || http://schools.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scoop	|| http://scoop.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scouting || http://scouting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| scoutpedia || http://www.scoutpedia.info/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| scratchpad || http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| scriptingwiki || http://scripting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| seapig || http://www.seapig.org/$1 || 0 || Save Money on Shared or Dedicated Hosting || -
|-
| seattlewiki || http://seattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| seattlewireless || http://seattlewireless.net/?$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| seldonshand || http://seldonhand.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| semweb || http://semweb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| senseislibrary || http://senseis.xmp.net/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgcommand || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgwireless || http://sgwireless.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| shakti || http://cgi.algonet.se/htbin/cgiwrap/pgd/ShaktiWiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| shoppingwiki || http://shopping.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| simpsons || http://simpsons.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| sims || http://sims.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sitelibrary || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| skypeme || skype:$1?chat || 0 || (url not tested) || -
|-
| slashdot || http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| slektami || http://slektami.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| smarteam || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| smikipedia || http://www.smikipedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| smw || http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| socialism || http://socialism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sockwiki || http://wiki.socklabs.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| solarconquest	|| http://SolarConquest.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sosdancn || http://wiki.sosdancn.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sourceforge || http://sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sourcewatch || http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| spankart || http://spankingartwiki.animeotk.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sport	|| http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sports || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| squeak || http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| srpstvo || http://Srpstvo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ssb || http://www.ssbwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| stargate || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| startrekwiki || http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| starwars || http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fully operational || -
|-
| storypedia || http://Storypedia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| stpete || http://stpete.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| strategywiki || http://strategywiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| strikiwiki || http://ch.twi.tudelft.nl/~mostert/striki/teststriki.pl?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| suceavacounty || http://Suceava.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| suisse || http://suisse.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sunrisesunset || http://sunrisesunset.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| superstar || http://superstar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || czech
|-
| susning || http://www.susning.nu/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|-
| svgwiki || http://wiki.svg.org/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| svtwiki || http://SVT.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| swtrain || http://train.spottingworld.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s || http://www.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[s:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| search || http://search.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| seeds || http://www.IslandSeeds.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| software || http://software.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| startup || http://startup.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| students || http://students.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 't'===

Round 20. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 't', except for these 3:
* town-titles, townn-titles, translation

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[translation:" or "translation:" so I have to look at hits for "translation" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"town-titles" and "townn-titles" have special characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

"tvtropes" was special. I found 4 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. However, 2 of them did not work, because tvtropes re-organized their articles; and were not fixable, because our interwiki link points to the Main section of tvtropes and they moved their article on NetHack to the VideoGame section. And then I saw that our article on tvtropes had obsolete information, so I updated that article, added references, and so on. At the end of my editing session, there were 0 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, so you can delete the interwiki link now. tvtropes certainly has a way of engaging people for longer than they planned.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| tablature || http://tablature.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| talisman || http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Top Live Casino || already done, expedited deletion
|-
| tardis || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tavi || http://tavi.sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| techcompare || http://TechCompare.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tejo || http://www.tejo.org/vikio/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| terrorwiki || http://www.liberalsagainstterrorism.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || How To Grow Your Small Business Into a Large Business || -
|-
| tesoltaiwan || http://www.tesol-taiwan.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || no wiki, redirects to its main page || -
|-
| thelemapedia || http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| theopedia || http://www.theopedia.com/$1 || 0 || Not found || -
|-
| theowiki || http://www.theowiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_RESET || -
|-
| thinkwiki || http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| tianjin || http://Tianjin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tmbw || http://www.tmbw.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tmnet || http://www.technomanifestos.net/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| tmwiki || http://www.EasyTopicMaps.com/?page=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| toronto || http://toronto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tourism || http://tourism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| trains || http://trains.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transformers || http://tfwiki.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transhumanism || http://transhumanism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tricities || http://huntricitiesde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| turismo || http://www.tejo.org/turismo/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| turriwiki || http://wiki.finfur.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || Fatal exception of type MWException || -
|-
| tvtropes || http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/$1 || 0 || operational || our interwiki link points to Main and their NetHack article is no longer in Main, so we no longer use any tvtropes:xxx interwiki links
|-
| twiki || http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| twistedwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/twisted/$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found on this site. || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| town-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| townn-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| translation || http://translation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'u'===

Round 21. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'u', except for this 1:
* university

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[university:" or "university:" so I have to look at hits for "university" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| uea || http://www.tejo.org/uea/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| ufology || http://ufology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukrailways || http://ukrailways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukroads || http://ukroads.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| uncyclopedia || http://www.uncyclopedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || File not found (404 error) || uncyclopedia moved. I changed all 1 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[uncyclopedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to use direct https to current location.
|-
| universitywikinodewiki || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| unreal || http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ursine || http://ursine.ca/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| usej || http://www.tejo.org/usej/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| utopia || http://Utopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| university || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'v'===
Round 22. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'v'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (v) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| vancouver || http://vancouver.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| vanishedlibrary || http://VanishedLibrary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| vegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| villagearts || http://www.Village-Arts.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| vinismo || http://vinismo.com/en/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| virtualpets || http://VirtualPets.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| virus || http://virus.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| visualworks || http://wiki.cs.uiuc.edu/VisualWorks/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| vlaamseklantenbrussel	|| http://vlaamseklantenbrussel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| voterice || http://voterice.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (v) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'v'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 16:16, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
::Still need to delete: vancouver, vanishedlibrary [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 19:54, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
:::Thought I'd gotten them with the rest - cleared out now. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 20:07, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
::::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 20:10, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'w'===

Round 23. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'w', except for these 12:
* w, why, wiki, wikia, wikibooks, wikicities, wikimedia, wikinfo, wikipedia, wikt, wiktionary, worlds

Some of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[w:" or "w:" so I have to look at hits for "w" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (w) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| w:c:academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| w:c:wowwiki || http://www.wowwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| warpedview || http://www.warpedview.com/mediawiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| warzone2100 || http://warzone2100.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| webdevwikinl || http://www.promo-it.nl/WebDevWiki/index.php?page=$1 || 0 || De website die u probeert te vinden is niet bereikbaar || dutch
|-
| webisodes || http://www.webisodes.org/$1 || 0 || HTTP Status: 404 (not found) || -
|-
| webseitzwiki || http://webseitz.fluxent.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| westport || http://Westport.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| whitewolf || http://whiteWolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiablog || http://blogs.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiaentertainment || http://entertainment.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiagaming || http://gaming.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiahelp || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikianswers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wikible || http://www.wikible.org/en/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| wikicomedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikif1 || http://www.wikif1.org/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| wikifur || http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikihelp || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikihow || http://www.wikihow.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiindex || http://wikiindex.com/$1 || 0 || 504 Gateway Time-out || -
|-
| wikimac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikimon || http://wikimon.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikimoon || http://wikimoon.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikinews || http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiquote || http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikirps || http://www.wikirps.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| wikiscum || http://scum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikisource || http://wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikispecies || http://species.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikitravel || http://wikitravel.org/en/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiversity || http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikivoyage || http://www.wikivoyage.org/general/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiworld || http://WikiWorld.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Parse error: syntax error, unexpected 'Namespace' (T_NAMESPACE), expecting identifier (T_STRING) in /var/www/vhosts/wikiworld.com/httpdocs/wiki/includes/Namespace.php on line 46 || -
|-
| windsurfing || http://windsurfing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wlp || http://wlp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wlug || http://www.wlug.org.nz/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wnc || http://wnc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| worldcitizen || http://worldcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wowwiki || http://www.wowwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (w) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| w || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 6+ known uses|| operational || we have 6+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| why || http://clublet.com/c/c/why?$1 || unsearchable || (domain for sale) || -
|-
| wiki || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| wikia || http://www.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| wikibooks || http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/$1 || 3 || operational || we have 3 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikibooks:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikicities || http://www.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 1 || main page of fandom.com || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikicities:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikimedia || http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| wikinfo || http://www.wikinfo.org/index.php/$1 || 2 || wikinfo exists but rearranged site || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikipedia || http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, many || operational || we have many &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikt || http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikt:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wiktionary || http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/$1 || 3 || operational || we have 3 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wiktionary:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| worlds || http://worlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 21:18, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'x', 'y', or 'z'===

Round 24. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'x', 'y', or 'z', except for these 5:
* x-files, zh.anime, zh.mac, zh.wikimac, zzz wiki

These 5 prefixes have special characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (x), (y), and (z) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| xao || http://XAO.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ypsieyeball || http://sknkwrks.dyndns.org:1957/writewiki/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| zeldapendium || http://www.zeldapendium.de/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| zeldawiki || http://zeldawiki.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| zemirot || http://zemirotdatabase.org/view_song.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| zhmusic || http://zh.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| zwiki	|| http://zwiki.org/$1 || 0 || zwiki.org link broken #6 || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (x), (y), and (z) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| x-files || http://x-files.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| zh.anime || http://zh.anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zh.mac || http://zh.mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zh.wikimac || http://zh.mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zzz wiki || http://wiki.zzz.ee/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|}

:In regards to specifically Zeldawiki, I think that one is likely to be worth keeping because we do have at least a few Zelda-inspired monsters, possibly among other stuff (see [[garo]], which also need a presentability pass but there you go). The rest of the "delete" table can go without contest. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 16:15, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
::I am fine with keeping Zeldawiki and others at your discretion. Just make notes like the above, delete the others, mark issue resolved. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 18:03, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
::Regarding Zeldawiki, the current interwiki link (zeldawiki.org) goes to the Fandom wiki. I think it might be better to link to the independent wiki, which is at https://zeldawiki.wiki/wiki/Main_Page. From what I recall, I think it's the same wiki team, who moved away from Fandom? --[[User:ScienceBall|ScienceBall]] ([[User talk:ScienceBall|talk]]) 11:05, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
:::Correct. My idea was to maintain links to independent non-&lt;s&gt;Wikia&lt;/s&gt; Fandom™ wikis and edit or establish relevant interwiki entries accordingly while deleting the other unused ones - so far ZeldaWiki and Bulbapedia come to mind as "obvious" candidates. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:13, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed pending a judgment on zeldapendium - it's a German wiki on ''The Legend of Zelda'' that's distinct from ZeldaWiki but still part of the NIWA (independent alliance of Nintendo wikis), so I'm trying to figure out what that's about - the rest's been dealt with. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 21:19, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with other first characters===

Round 25. This is the final round.

I would like to request that an admin delete many interwiki entries starting with other first characters except for these 2:
* Cache, Wikihack

Some of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[Cache:" or "Cache:" so I have to look at hits for "Cache" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (other first character) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| 3dgame || http://3dgame.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| AwarenessWiki || http://taoriver.net/aware/$1 || 0 || ERR_ADDRESS_UNREACHABLE || -
|-
| Legowiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Lego-Robotics/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (other first character) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| Cache	|| http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| Wikihack || http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:$1 || unsearchable, 2+ known uses || operational || we have 2+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Wikihack:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 21:21, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==
{{resolved top}}
These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::I can undelete pages accordingly if need be, but this seems like a fine enough idea - I don't want it to be ''too'' short, though, just meaty enough that it can serve as a source-diving aid of sorts without getting too into the weeds. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

:: Huh. This sounds like a good idea. They would be little disambiguation articles, with links at the bottom for 3.4.3, 3.6.7, 3.7-dev, and even for variant source code. They wouldn't have line numbers or functions. And if someone writes &lt;nowiki&gt;[[src/mon.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; in a talk page, then the page won't get stale when a new version comes out, people who read source code can figure out that a comment from 2013 was talking about to the 3.4.3 version, especially if there is a link somewhere to a quickie list of release dates. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

This is more complicated than I thought. For example, NetHackWiki has 14 files and 15 redirects for the source file "dogmove.c". I would like to digest the current scheme before making proposals and carrying out sweeps. Interested editors are invited to read and comment on [[User:Furey/How many copies of dogmove.c?]].

Meanwhile, I withdraw this proposal. I'll come back with rewritten proposals if I can get some consensus on my "how many copies" page. I am still fixing pages that link to ''wrong'' source versions.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:15, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}</text>
      <sha1>dvu75eu206kboe5rd9nibqe72bbuw99</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>173032</id>
      <parentid>173031</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-29T21:22:31Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with other first characters */ verified.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="123804">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience.

To give further context: below is a series of interwiki links [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5#Wikia Links|that were slated to be dealt with]] after the move to MediaWiki, but it fell to the wayside for more than a decade before another user decided to draw attention to the matter. Below is a series of lists meant to expedite the process and finish what was meant to be done back in 2011.

--[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC) [Original Message: 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:05, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:18, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

{{resolved top}}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===
Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 13:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'r'===

Round 18. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'r', except for these 4:
* religion, religion-wiki, reviews, roguebasin

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[religion:" or "religion:" so I have to look at hits for "religion" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| radioscanning || http://radioscanning.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| raec || http://www.raec.clacso.edu.ar:8080/raec/Members/raecpedia/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| realestate || http://realestate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reallifesoap || http://rls.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| republiconline || http://RepublicOnline.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| revo || http://purl.org/NET/voko/revo/art/$1.html || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| rfc || https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| roadcycling || http://RoadCycling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| robotbattle || http://RobotBattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rollercoastertycoon || http://rct.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| romhack || http://romhack.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| royalisme || http://Royalisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rpg || http://rpg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ru.townn-titles || http://ru.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| runescape || http://RuneScape.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| russianworld || http://russianworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| religion || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| religion-wiki || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reviews || http://reviews.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| roguebasin || https://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=$1 || unsearchable, 10+ known uses || operational || we have 10+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[roguebasin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 's'===

Round 19. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 's', except for these 6:
* s, search, seeds, software, startup, students

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[search:" or "search:" so I have to look at hits for "search" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"s" has at least one use.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s23wiki || http://is-root.de/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Buy this domain. || -
|-
| sageswiki || http://sages.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sagewiki || http://sage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| salmesykkel || http://salmesykkel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| samplitude || http://Samplitude.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sandiego || http://sandiego.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sanfranciscowiki || http://sanfrancisco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sca21 || http://sca21.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| schoolcomputing || http://SchoolComputing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| schools || http://schools.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scoop	|| http://scoop.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scouting || http://scouting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| scoutpedia || http://www.scoutpedia.info/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| scratchpad || http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| scriptingwiki || http://scripting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| seapig || http://www.seapig.org/$1 || 0 || Save Money on Shared or Dedicated Hosting || -
|-
| seattlewiki || http://seattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| seattlewireless || http://seattlewireless.net/?$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| seldonshand || http://seldonhand.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| semweb || http://semweb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| senseislibrary || http://senseis.xmp.net/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgcommand || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgwireless || http://sgwireless.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| shakti || http://cgi.algonet.se/htbin/cgiwrap/pgd/ShaktiWiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| shoppingwiki || http://shopping.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| simpsons || http://simpsons.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| sims || http://sims.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sitelibrary || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| skypeme || skype:$1?chat || 0 || (url not tested) || -
|-
| slashdot || http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| slektami || http://slektami.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| smarteam || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| smikipedia || http://www.smikipedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| smw || http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| socialism || http://socialism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sockwiki || http://wiki.socklabs.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| solarconquest	|| http://SolarConquest.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sosdancn || http://wiki.sosdancn.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sourceforge || http://sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sourcewatch || http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| spankart || http://spankingartwiki.animeotk.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sport	|| http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sports || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| squeak || http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| srpstvo || http://Srpstvo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ssb || http://www.ssbwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| stargate || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| startrekwiki || http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| starwars || http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fully operational || -
|-
| storypedia || http://Storypedia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| stpete || http://stpete.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| strategywiki || http://strategywiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| strikiwiki || http://ch.twi.tudelft.nl/~mostert/striki/teststriki.pl?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| suceavacounty || http://Suceava.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| suisse || http://suisse.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sunrisesunset || http://sunrisesunset.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| superstar || http://superstar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || czech
|-
| susning || http://www.susning.nu/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|-
| svgwiki || http://wiki.svg.org/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| svtwiki || http://SVT.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| swtrain || http://train.spottingworld.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s || http://www.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[s:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| search || http://search.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| seeds || http://www.IslandSeeds.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| software || http://software.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| startup || http://startup.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| students || http://students.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 't'===

Round 20. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 't', except for these 3:
* town-titles, townn-titles, translation

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[translation:" or "translation:" so I have to look at hits for "translation" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"town-titles" and "townn-titles" have special characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

"tvtropes" was special. I found 4 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. However, 2 of them did not work, because tvtropes re-organized their articles; and were not fixable, because our interwiki link points to the Main section of tvtropes and they moved their article on NetHack to the VideoGame section. And then I saw that our article on tvtropes had obsolete information, so I updated that article, added references, and so on. At the end of my editing session, there were 0 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, so you can delete the interwiki link now. tvtropes certainly has a way of engaging people for longer than they planned.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| tablature || http://tablature.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| talisman || http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Top Live Casino || already done, expedited deletion
|-
| tardis || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tavi || http://tavi.sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| techcompare || http://TechCompare.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tejo || http://www.tejo.org/vikio/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| terrorwiki || http://www.liberalsagainstterrorism.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || How To Grow Your Small Business Into a Large Business || -
|-
| tesoltaiwan || http://www.tesol-taiwan.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || no wiki, redirects to its main page || -
|-
| thelemapedia || http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| theopedia || http://www.theopedia.com/$1 || 0 || Not found || -
|-
| theowiki || http://www.theowiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_RESET || -
|-
| thinkwiki || http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| tianjin || http://Tianjin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tmbw || http://www.tmbw.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tmnet || http://www.technomanifestos.net/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| tmwiki || http://www.EasyTopicMaps.com/?page=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| toronto || http://toronto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tourism || http://tourism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| trains || http://trains.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transformers || http://tfwiki.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transhumanism || http://transhumanism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tricities || http://huntricitiesde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| turismo || http://www.tejo.org/turismo/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| turriwiki || http://wiki.finfur.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || Fatal exception of type MWException || -
|-
| tvtropes || http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/$1 || 0 || operational || our interwiki link points to Main and their NetHack article is no longer in Main, so we no longer use any tvtropes:xxx interwiki links
|-
| twiki || http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| twistedwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/twisted/$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found on this site. || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| town-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| townn-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| translation || http://translation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'u'===

Round 21. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'u', except for this 1:
* university

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[university:" or "university:" so I have to look at hits for "university" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| uea || http://www.tejo.org/uea/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| ufology || http://ufology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukrailways || http://ukrailways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukroads || http://ukroads.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| uncyclopedia || http://www.uncyclopedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || File not found (404 error) || uncyclopedia moved. I changed all 1 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[uncyclopedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to use direct https to current location.
|-
| universitywikinodewiki || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| unreal || http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ursine || http://ursine.ca/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| usej || http://www.tejo.org/usej/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| utopia || http://Utopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| university || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'v'===
Round 22. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'v'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (v) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| vancouver || http://vancouver.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| vanishedlibrary || http://VanishedLibrary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| vegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| villagearts || http://www.Village-Arts.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| vinismo || http://vinismo.com/en/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| virtualpets || http://VirtualPets.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| virus || http://virus.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| visualworks || http://wiki.cs.uiuc.edu/VisualWorks/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| vlaamseklantenbrussel	|| http://vlaamseklantenbrussel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| voterice || http://voterice.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (v) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'v'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 16:16, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
::Still need to delete: vancouver, vanishedlibrary [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 19:54, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
:::Thought I'd gotten them with the rest - cleared out now. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 20:07, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
::::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 20:10, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'w'===

Round 23. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'w', except for these 12:
* w, why, wiki, wikia, wikibooks, wikicities, wikimedia, wikinfo, wikipedia, wikt, wiktionary, worlds

Some of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[w:" or "w:" so I have to look at hits for "w" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (w) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| w:c:academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| w:c:wowwiki || http://www.wowwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| warpedview || http://www.warpedview.com/mediawiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| warzone2100 || http://warzone2100.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| webdevwikinl || http://www.promo-it.nl/WebDevWiki/index.php?page=$1 || 0 || De website die u probeert te vinden is niet bereikbaar || dutch
|-
| webisodes || http://www.webisodes.org/$1 || 0 || HTTP Status: 404 (not found) || -
|-
| webseitzwiki || http://webseitz.fluxent.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| westport || http://Westport.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| whitewolf || http://whiteWolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiablog || http://blogs.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiaentertainment || http://entertainment.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiagaming || http://gaming.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiahelp || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikianswers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wikible || http://www.wikible.org/en/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| wikicomedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikif1 || http://www.wikif1.org/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| wikifur || http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikihelp || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikihow || http://www.wikihow.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiindex || http://wikiindex.com/$1 || 0 || 504 Gateway Time-out || -
|-
| wikimac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikimon || http://wikimon.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikimoon || http://wikimoon.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikinews || http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiquote || http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikirps || http://www.wikirps.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| wikiscum || http://scum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikisource || http://wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikispecies || http://species.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikitravel || http://wikitravel.org/en/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiversity || http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikivoyage || http://www.wikivoyage.org/general/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiworld || http://WikiWorld.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Parse error: syntax error, unexpected 'Namespace' (T_NAMESPACE), expecting identifier (T_STRING) in /var/www/vhosts/wikiworld.com/httpdocs/wiki/includes/Namespace.php on line 46 || -
|-
| windsurfing || http://windsurfing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wlp || http://wlp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wlug || http://www.wlug.org.nz/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wnc || http://wnc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| worldcitizen || http://worldcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wowwiki || http://www.wowwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (w) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| w || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 6+ known uses|| operational || we have 6+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| why || http://clublet.com/c/c/why?$1 || unsearchable || (domain for sale) || -
|-
| wiki || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| wikia || http://www.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| wikibooks || http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/$1 || 3 || operational || we have 3 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikibooks:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikicities || http://www.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 1 || main page of fandom.com || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikicities:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikimedia || http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| wikinfo || http://www.wikinfo.org/index.php/$1 || 2 || wikinfo exists but rearranged site || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikipedia || http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, many || operational || we have many &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikt || http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikt:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wiktionary || http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/$1 || 3 || operational || we have 3 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wiktionary:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| worlds || http://worlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 21:18, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'x', 'y', or 'z'===

Round 24. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'x', 'y', or 'z', except for these 5:
* x-files, zh.anime, zh.mac, zh.wikimac, zzz wiki

These 5 prefixes have special characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (x), (y), and (z) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| xao || http://XAO.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ypsieyeball || http://sknkwrks.dyndns.org:1957/writewiki/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| zeldapendium || http://www.zeldapendium.de/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| zeldawiki || http://zeldawiki.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| zemirot || http://zemirotdatabase.org/view_song.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| zhmusic || http://zh.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| zwiki	|| http://zwiki.org/$1 || 0 || zwiki.org link broken #6 || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (x), (y), and (z) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| x-files || http://x-files.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| zh.anime || http://zh.anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zh.mac || http://zh.mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zh.wikimac || http://zh.mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zzz wiki || http://wiki.zzz.ee/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|}

:In regards to specifically Zeldawiki, I think that one is likely to be worth keeping because we do have at least a few Zelda-inspired monsters, possibly among other stuff (see [[garo]], which also need a presentability pass but there you go). The rest of the "delete" table can go without contest. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 16:15, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
::I am fine with keeping Zeldawiki and others at your discretion. Just make notes like the above, delete the others, mark issue resolved. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 18:03, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
::Regarding Zeldawiki, the current interwiki link (zeldawiki.org) goes to the Fandom wiki. I think it might be better to link to the independent wiki, which is at https://zeldawiki.wiki/wiki/Main_Page. From what I recall, I think it's the same wiki team, who moved away from Fandom? --[[User:ScienceBall|ScienceBall]] ([[User talk:ScienceBall|talk]]) 11:05, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
:::Correct. My idea was to maintain links to independent non-&lt;s&gt;Wikia&lt;/s&gt; Fandom™ wikis and edit or establish relevant interwiki entries accordingly while deleting the other unused ones - so far ZeldaWiki and Bulbapedia come to mind as "obvious" candidates. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:13, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed pending a judgment on zeldapendium - it's a German wiki on ''The Legend of Zelda'' that's distinct from ZeldaWiki but still part of the NIWA (independent alliance of Nintendo wikis), so I'm trying to figure out what that's about - the rest's been dealt with. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 21:19, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with other first characters===

Round 25. This is the final round.

I would like to request that an admin delete many interwiki entries starting with other first characters except for these 2:
* Cache, Wikihack

Some of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[Cache:" or "Cache:" so I have to look at hits for "Cache" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (other first character) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| 3dgame || http://3dgame.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| AwarenessWiki || http://taoriver.net/aware/$1 || 0 || ERR_ADDRESS_UNREACHABLE || -
|-
| Legowiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Lego-Robotics/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (other first character) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| Cache	|| http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| Wikihack || http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:$1 || unsearchable, 2+ known uses || operational || we have 2+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Wikihack:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 21:21, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
:: Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:22, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==
{{resolved top}}
These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::I can undelete pages accordingly if need be, but this seems like a fine enough idea - I don't want it to be ''too'' short, though, just meaty enough that it can serve as a source-diving aid of sorts without getting too into the weeds. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

:: Huh. This sounds like a good idea. They would be little disambiguation articles, with links at the bottom for 3.4.3, 3.6.7, 3.7-dev, and even for variant source code. They wouldn't have line numbers or functions. And if someone writes &lt;nowiki&gt;[[src/mon.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; in a talk page, then the page won't get stale when a new version comes out, people who read source code can figure out that a comment from 2013 was talking about to the 3.4.3 version, especially if there is a link somewhere to a quickie list of release dates. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

This is more complicated than I thought. For example, NetHackWiki has 14 files and 15 redirects for the source file "dogmove.c". I would like to digest the current scheme before making proposals and carrying out sweeps. Interested editors are invited to read and comment on [[User:Furey/How many copies of dogmove.c?]].

Meanwhile, I withdraw this proposal. I'll come back with rewritten proposals if I can get some consensus on my "how many copies" page. I am still fixing pages that link to ''wrong'' source versions.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:15, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}</text>
      <sha1>5hefu7ldiwu14bov15x790o5x2pe208</sha1>
    </revision>
    <revision>
      <id>173033</id>
      <parentid>173032</parentid>
      <timestamp>2024-06-29T21:25:06Z</timestamp>
      <contributor>
        <username>Furey</username>
        <id>4001284</id>
      </contributor>
      <comment>/* Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'x', 'y', or 'z' */ Verified.</comment>
      <model>wikitext</model>
      <format>text/x-wiki</format>
      <text xml:space="preserve" bytes="124053">__NEWSECTIONLINK__{{community}}
&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience.

To give further context: below is a series of interwiki links [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5#Wikia Links|that were slated to be dealt with]] after the move to MediaWiki, but it fell to the wayside for more than a decade before another user decided to draw attention to the matter. Below is a series of lists meant to expedite the process and finish what was meant to be done back in 2011.

--[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC) [Original Message: 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience || http://altscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| amazone || http://Amazone.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| americanfederationofmusicians	|| http://afm.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| ancientcoins || http://ancientcoins.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| ancientworld || http://AncientWorld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || russian
|-
| andstuff || http://andstuff.org/wiki.php?$1 || 0 || redirects to a blog || -
|-
| anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| annotationwiki || http://www.seedwiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=368&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| aocfinland || http://www.aocfinland.net/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| appropedia || http://www.appropedia.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ar.hassa || http://ar.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| arbeitslos || http://Arbeitslos.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| arcapedia || http://www.sasoriza.us/a/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| archaeology || http://archaeology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| argentumonline || http://ao2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchair || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armchairgm || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| armoriale || http://armoriale.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| artemisfowl || http://ArtemisFowl.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operatonal || -
|-
| arxiv || http://www.arxiv.org/abs/$1 || 0 || lands on empty page || -
|-
| asheron || http://ac.wikkii.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ashleesimpson	|| http://ashleesimpson.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| asimov || http://asimov.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| aspienetwiki || http://aspie.mela.de/Wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| astronomy || http://astronomy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| asylum || http://Asylum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| australiawiki || http://australia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| avegost || http://avegost.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

'''Keep these for now'''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:"

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| a-levels || http://a-levels.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || "There is currently no text in this page." || -
|-
| annotation || http://bayle.stanford.edu/crit/nph-med.cgi/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| answers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| anthropology || http://Anthropology.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| apple || http://techessentials.org/apple/$1 || unsearchable || Opaque site, definitely not a wiki || -
|-
| architecture || http://Architecture.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 06:56, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 02:49, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'b'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 2. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'b', except for this 1:
* box

These 1 is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[box:" or "box:" so I have to look at hits for "box" and there are too many of them. So punt this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (b) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| babylon5 || http://babylon5.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| babysign || http://BabySign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bahrain || http://bahrain.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| baltimore || http://baltimore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bangalore || http://Bangalore.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| battlestarwiki || http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beijing || http://beijing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| bemi || http://bemi.free.fr/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Access denied for user 'bemi'@'172.20.245.52' (using password: YES) in /mnt/105/sda/1/a/bemi/vikio/index.php on line 302 || -
|-
| benefitswiki || http://www.benefitslink.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || 410 - Page No Longer Available || -
|-
| berlin || http://Berlin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| bestpractices || http://BestPractices.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| beyondvoting || http://beyondvoting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bloggingwiki || http://blogging.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| blogsome || http://blogsome.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boppard || http://boppard.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| boston || http://Boston.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| brasilwiki || http://rio.ifi.unizh.ch/brasilienwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| bridgeswiki || http://c2.com/w2/bridges/$1 || 0 || The requested URL was not found on this server. || -
|-
| bswiki || http://en.bswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| bulbapedia || http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| businessowns || http://business_owns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| bydgoszcz || http://bydgoszcz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|}

''' Keep these for now (b) '''

unsearchable means: "foo" gives too many hits to look through. i cannot search for "foo:" or "[[foo:".

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| box || http://userboxes.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'c'===

https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

Round 3. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'c', except for these 9:
* cache, cities, clubpenguin, cm, commons, community, consciousness, cpp, creatures

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[cache:" or "cache:" so I have to look at hits for "cache" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"clubpenguin" has an actual use: I found an article with a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; reference. So for now, leave it alone.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| c2find || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FindPage&amp;value=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| calgary || http://calgary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| camarilarequiem || http://camarilarequiem.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| camcorder || http://Camcorder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cancerhelp || http://cancer.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| cantonese || http://cantonese.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| castlemarrach	|| http://Marrach.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| casualty || http://casualty.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| celebrity || http://celebrity.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| cellphones || http://cell.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| censorship || http://censorship.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| charlesmunch || http://charlesmunch.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| chdk || http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| chej || http://esperanto.blahus.cz/cxej/vikio/index.php/$1 || 0 || The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. || -
|-
| chw || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ciscavate || http://ciscavate.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| cliki	|| http://ww.telent.net/cliki/$1 || 0 || Page not found || -
|-
| cmwiki || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| codersbase || http://www.codersbase.com/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| collegehockey || http://chw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| comedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| commdesign || http://commdesign.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| computervision || http://computervision.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| concordwiki || http://Concord.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conferencewiki || http://conferences.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| conlang || http://conlang.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| connectivity || http://connectivity.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| conworld || http://conworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| corpknowpedia	|| http://corpknowpedia.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| craftedbycarol || http://www.CraftedByCarol.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not Found [CFN #0005] || -
|-
| creationmatters || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || No page found || -
|-
| cyclisme || http://cyclisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (c) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| cache || http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable|| operational || -
|-
| cities || http://cities.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| clubpenguin || http://clubpenguinwiki.info/wiki/$1 || 1 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || we have a &lt;nowiki&gt;[[clubpenguin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| cm || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| commons || http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| community || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| consciousness	|| http://teadvus.inspiral.org/	|| unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || note the lack of $1
|-
| cpp || http://cpp.wikia.com/ || unsearchable || operational || note the lack of $1
|-
| creatures || http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'd'===

Round 4. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'd', except for these 7:
* delphi, dictionary, diy, dnd, documentation, doom, désencyclopédie

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[delphi:" or "delphi:" so I have to look at hits for "delphi" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"dnd" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"désencyclopédie" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 17:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| datamining || http://datamining.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| datsun510 || http://Datsun510.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dc database || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcanimated || http://dcanimated.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dcdatabase || http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| debatewiki || http://debate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dejanews || http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| demokraatia || http://wiki.demokraatia.ee/ || 0 || Best Text Blast Service || note the lack of $1
|-
| desencyclopedie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| detroit || http://detroit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| deviousmud || http://deviousmud.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| dfw || http://dfw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| diablowiki || http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| discgolf || http://discgolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| disinfopedia || http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| disney || http://Disney.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| diveintoosx || http://diveintoosx.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| dns || http://dns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| docbook || http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doctorwho || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| doi || http://dx.doi.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dolphinwiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Dolphin/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| doom_wiki || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| downsyndrome || http://downsyndrome.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| dpl || http://semeb.com/dpldemo/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || 410 Gone || -
|-
| drumcorpswiki	|| http://www.drumcorpswiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dvdlab || http://dvdlab.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dwjwiki || http://www.suberic.net/cgi-bin/dwj/wiki.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| dyslexia || http://dyslexia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| dystopia || http://dystopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (d) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| delphi || http://delphi.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dictionary || http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Database=*&amp;Form=Dict1&amp;Strategy=*&amp;Query=$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| diy || http://diy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| dnd || http://dandwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[dnd:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| documentation	|| http://documentation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| doom || http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| désencyclopédie || http://desencyclopedie.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0? || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'e'===

Round 5. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'e', except for these 6:
* ec^ei, ed, emacswiki, en.cpp, events, eĉei

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ed:" or "ed:" so I have to look at hits for "ed" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

"emacswiki" has 2 actual uses: articles with &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; references. So for now, leave it alone.

"eĉei" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 22:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| eagleparty || http://eagleparty.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eaglesfans || http://eaglesfans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eberron || http://Eberron.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| echei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| ecoreality || http://www.EcoReality.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Under Construction || -
|-
| ecovillage || http://ecovillage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ecxei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| education || http://education.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| efnetceewiki || http://purl.net/wiki/c/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetcppwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/cpp/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetpythonwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/python/$1 || 0 || Page not found on this site. || -
|-
| efnetxmlwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/xml/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| efrat	|| http://Efrat.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eisenbahn || http://eisenbahn.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| elderscrollscs || http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| elibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| eljwiki || http://elj.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| emailwiki || http://Email.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.anime || http://anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.hassa || http://en.Hassa.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.linuxwikia	|| http://en.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.linuxwikicity || http://en.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fandom.com (main page) || -
|-
| en.miqra || http://en.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.phpbb || http://en.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| en.tibia || http://en.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| en.townn-titles || http://en.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| enciclopedialibre || http://enciclopedia.us.es/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || spanish
|-
| enmusic || http://en.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| eokulturcentro || http://esperanto.toulouse.free.fr/wakka.php?wiki=$1 || 0 || blank page || -
|-
| esclarion || http://es.clarion.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| esperanto || http://esperanto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| essences || http://Essences.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| everquest2 || http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| evolutionarybusiness || http://EvolutionaryBusiness.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| evowiki || http://www.evowiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || File not found. || -
|-
| expressways || http://expressways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (e) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ec^ei	|| http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|-
| ed || http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| emacswiki || http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[emacswiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| en.cpp || http://en.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| events || http://Events.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| eĉei || http://www.ikso.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || special char in prefix
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'f'===

Round 6. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'f', except for these 5:
* fiction, fr.be, fr.org, freebsd, future

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[fiction:" or "fiction:" so I have to look at hits for "fiction" and there are too many of them. So punt these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:03, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

''' Safe to delete (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| facialcleansingproducts || http://facialcleansingproducts.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fadingsuns || http://FadingSuns.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| familyguy || http://FamilyGuy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fastribe || http://fsatribe.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| featuregarden || http://FeatureGarden.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fet || http://www.egnu.org/thelema/index.php/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| feuilleton || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| fi.marveldatabase || http://fi.marveldatabase.com/$1 || 0 || operational || finnish
|-
| filmwiki || http://film.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| finalempire || http://final-empire.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1	|| 0 || Could not create /home/groups/f/fi/final-empire/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| finalfantasy || http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| fineart || http://Fineart.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firefly || http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| firstwiki || http://firstwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fisherymanagement || http://fisherymanagement.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| flink || http://flink.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || norwegian
|-
| foldoc || http://foldoc.org/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| footy || http://footy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| foundationgame || http://foundation.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| foxwiki || http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~$1 || 0 || The FoxPro Wiki is down, on purpose || -
|-
| fr.miqra || http://fr.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| freebasic || http://FreeBASIC.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| freebsdman || http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?apropos=1&amp;query=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fruawiki || http://frua.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| fundraising || http://Fundraising.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| furry || http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (f) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| fiction || http://fiction.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.be	|| http://fr.wikinations.be/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| fr.org || http://fr.wikinations.org/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| freebsd || http://freebsd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| future || http://future.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'g'===

Round 7. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'g', except for these 6:
* gameinfo, games, gentoo-wiki, google, grammar, gta

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[games:" or "games:" so I have to look at hits for "games" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"gameinfo" and "gta" have known live uses. "gameinfo" is complicated and I am working on a task for that. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| gamefaqs || http://GameFAQs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| gamemaker || http://gamemaker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gamewiki || http://gamewiki.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out || -
|-
| garoumush || http://GarouMUSH.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gausswiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1	|| 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| geck || http://geck.bethsoft.com/index.php/$1	|| 0 || This wiki is currently down for backend maintenance. || -
|-
| gej || http://www.esperanto.de/cgi-bin/aktivikio/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Server Error 404 Page Not Found || -
|-
| genealogy || http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gknowledge || http://gknowledge.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| globalization || http://globalization.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| globalvoices || http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/dyn/globalvoices/wiki/$1	|| 0 || 404 Page Cannot Be Found || -
|-
| gmailwiki || http://www.gmailwiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| googlegroups || http://groups.google.com/groups?q=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| googlewiki || http://google.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| gotamac || http://www.got-a-mac.org/$1 || 0 || operational || swedish
|-
| granada || http://granada.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| grapeswiki || http://grapes.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| greencheese || http://www.greencheese.org/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || -
|-
| grixml || http://grixml.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| guilds || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| guildwiki || http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gw2w || http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| gww || http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (g) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| gameinfo || http://gameinfo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || several || Not a valid community || we have several &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gameinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| games || http://games.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gentoo-wiki || http://gentoo-wiki.com/$1 || unsearchable || 404 Not Found || -
|-
| google || http://www.google.com/search?q=$1 || unsearchable || operational || how ironic
|-
| grammar || http://grammar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| gta || http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[gta:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'h'===

Round 8. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'h', except for this 1:
* homepage

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[homepage:" or "homepage:" so I have to look at hits for "homepage" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site statu
! Comments
|-
| hammondwiki || http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| haribeau || http://wiki.haribeau.de/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Your server is running PHP version 5.6.40-nmm8 but WordPress 6.3.4 requires at least 7.0.0. || -
|-
| he.miqra || http://he.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| helpwiki || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || This wiki has joined forces with another wiki on the Fandom network. The wiki has been archived and we ask that readers and editors move to the now combined wiki. -
|-
| hembygd || http://Hembygd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| heraldry || http://Heraldry.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| herzkinderwiki || http://www.herzkinderinfo.de/Mediawiki/index.php/$1	|| 0 || Charities where You Can Sponsor a Child || -
|-
| hewikisource || http://he.wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || hebrew
|-
| highlandgames	|| http://highlandgames.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| historywiki || http://History.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| homeschooling	|| http://homeschooling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hongkong || http://hongkong.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| horrorfilms || http://Horrormovies.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hrwiki || http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| htmlwiki || http://HTML.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| hundewiki || http://hunde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| hypertexttheory || http://Hypertext.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep this for now (h) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| homepage || http://www.wikia.com/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'i'===

Round 9. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'i', except for these 3:
* ib, india, inferno

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[ib:" or "ib:" so I have to look at hits for "ib" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| iaudio || http://iaudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| iawiki || http://www.IAwiki.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| idokorea || http://IdoKorea.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || korea
|-
| imdb || http://us.imdb.com/Title?$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| incubator || http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| industrialengineering || http://IndustrialEngineering.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| infosecpedia || http://www.infosecpedia.org/pedia/index.php/$1 || 0 || Connection timed out Error code 522 || -
|-
| insurancewiki || http://insurance.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| inteq	|| http://inteq.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| internationalbaccalaureate || http://ib.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| internshipswiki || http://internships.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| intuite || http://intuite.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || french
|-
| inuyasha || http://InuYasha.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| inventions || http://inventions.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investments || http://investments.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| investwiki || http://investwiki.ru/wiki/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| ipodwiki || http://ipod.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| issuepedia || http://www.issuepedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| italia || http://Italia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
|}

''' Keep these for now (i) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| ib || http://ib.frath.net/w/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| india || http://india.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| inferno || http://inferno.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'j'===

Round 10. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'j'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (j) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| japanwiki || http://japan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jargonfile || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?wiki=JargonFile&amp;redirect=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| jefo || http://www.esperanto-jeunes.org/vikio/index.php?$1 || 0 || browser hang || -
|-
| jerseycity || http://jc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| jiniwiki || http://www.cdegroot.com/cgi-bin/jini?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| joinme || http://JoinMe.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| journalism || http://journalism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| jspwiki || http://www.jspwiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judaism || http://Judaism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| judgedredd || http://JudgeDredd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (j) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'j'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:05, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:18, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

{{resolved top}}

===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'k'===

Round 11. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'k'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (k) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| kabbalah || http://Kabbalah.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| keene || http://keene.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| keiki	|| http://kei.ki/en/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kerala || Not a valid community || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kerimwiki || http://wiki.oxus.net/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| kmwiki || http://kmwiki.wikispaces.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| knowhow || http://www2.iro.umontreal.ca/~paquetse/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?$1	|| 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| korea	|| http://korea.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| kulturwiki || http://feuilleton.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (k) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'k'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'l'===

Round 12. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'l', except for these 2:
* legal, logic

Most of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[legal:" or "legal:" so I have to look at hits for "legal" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| l5r || http://l5r.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| laff || http://laff.tixen.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lambengolmor || http://lambengolmor.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lanifexwiki || http://opt.lanifex.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (specially deleted already.) use protection if you visit this url.
|-
| lasvegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lasvegaswiki || http://wiki.gmnow.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| lawandorder || http://LawandOrder.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| liberaltalk || http://LiberalTalkRadio.com/$1	|| 0 || The domain name liberaltalkradio.com is for sale! || -
|-
| libertarian || http://libertarian.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| libraries || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| linuxstudiowiki || http://linuxstudio.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwiki || http://linuxwiki.de/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| linuxwikia || http://Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| linuxwikicity	|| http://Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| litcrit || http://litcrit.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lojban || http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lomac || http://lomac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| losangeles || http://losangeles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lostsoulswiki || http://lostsouls.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lotr || http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| lqwiki || http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lucid || http://Lucid.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| lug || http://lug.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lugkr || http://lug-kr.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/lugwiki.pl?$1 || 0 || Could not create /home/groups/l/lu/lug-kr/wiki: No such file or directory || -
|-
| luxembourg || http://luxembourg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| lyricwiki || http://lyrics.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (l) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| legal || http://legal.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| logic || http://logic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'm'===

Round 13. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'm', except for these 17:
* m, mac, mail, manual, matrix, me, meatball, mediawikiwiki, mediazilla, medicine, memoryalpha, metawiki, metawikimedia, metawikipedia, military, money, mw

Many of these exceptions are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[m:" or "m:" so I have to look at hits for "m" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| manga || http://en.manga.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mariowiki || http://www.mariowiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marvel database || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| marveldatabase || http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mathsongswiki || http://SeedWiki.com/page.cfm?wikiid=237&amp;doc=$1 || 0 || seedwiki.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|-
| metareciclagem || http://www.metareciclagem.com.br/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Error establishing a database connection || -
|-
| metaweb || http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| metodolcient || http://metodolcient.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mexique || http://mexique.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| minneapolis || http://minneapolis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| miqra || http://miqra.wikia.com/ || 0 || Not a valid community || note the lack of $1
|-
| mittelalter || http://Mittelalter.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| moinmoin || http://purl.net/wiki/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| morrowind || http://morrowind.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| motorsport || http://motorsport.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozcom || http://mozilla.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillawiki || http://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| mozillazinekb || http://kb.mozillazine.org/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| moztwwiki || http://wiki.moztw.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| mozwiki || http://mozwiki.moznetwork.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| musicplayerdaemon || http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| muweb	|| http://www.dunstable.com/scripts/MuWebWeb?$1	|| 0 || dunstable.com This domain is available for sale! || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (m) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| m || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| mail || http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/$1 || unsearchable || Not Found || -
|-
| manual || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| matrix || http://matrix.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| me || http://me.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| meatball || https://www.usemod.org/cgi-bin/mb.pl?$1 || unsearchable, 4+ known uses || operational || we have 4+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[meatball:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediawikiwiki || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 7 || operational || we have 7+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediawikiwiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| mediazilla || https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/$1 || 2 || operational || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mediazilla:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| medicine || http://medicine.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| memoryalpha || http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/index.php/$1 || 1 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[memoryalpha:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawiki || http://sunir.org/apps/meta.pl?$1 || 1 || Internal Server Error || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawiki:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; link!
|-
| metawikimedia || http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 4 || operational || we have 4 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikimedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| metawikipedia	|| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 5 || operational || we have 5 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[metawikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| military || http://military.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| money	|| http://money.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| mw || http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 5+ known uses || operational || we have 5+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[mw:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'n'===
Round 14. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'n'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (n) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| nagasaki || http://Nagasaki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| nashville || http://nashville.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nationalparks || http://nationalparks.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neopets || http://guilds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| netvillage || http://www.netbros.com/?$1 || 0 || ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR || -
|-
| networking || http://networking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| neverend || http://Neverend.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| neworleans || http://neworleans.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| newyork || http://newyork.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nickelodeon || http://Nickelodeon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nintendo || http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nl.phpbb || http://nl.phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| nn.miqra || http://nn.miqra.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| novelas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| novellas || http://novelas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| nswiki || http://www.nswiki.net/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || Buy this domain || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (n) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'n'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 13:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 14:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'o'===

Round 15. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'o', except for this 1:
* oracle

This exception is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[oracle:" or "oracle:" so I have to look at hits for "oracle" and there are too many of them. So keep this for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oeis || http://www.research.att.com/cgi-bin/access.cgi/as/njas/sequences/eisA.cgi?Anum=$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| olpc || http://wiki.laptop.org/go/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| onderwijs || http://onderwijs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| openfacts || http://openfacts.berlios.de/index.phtml?title=$1 || 0 || Internal Server Error || -
|-
| openwiki || http://openwiki.com/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| opera7wiki || http://nontroppo.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| operabrowser || http://Operabrowser.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| orgpatterns || http://www.bell-labs.com/cgi-user/OrgPatterns/OrgPatterns?$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found || -
|-
| orsonwelles || http://welles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| osi reference model || http://wiki.tigma.ee/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| owiki || http://owiki.de/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || german
|}

''' Keep this for now (o) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| oracle || http://oracle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'p'===

Round 16. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'p', except for these 5:
* pc, peace, php, pokemon, pokémon

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[pc:" or "pc:" so I have to look at hits for "pc" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"pokémon" has non-ASCII characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pagan	|| http://pagan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pakistan || http://pakistan.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| palkbay || http://palkbay.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pangalacticorg || http://www.pangalactic.org/Wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| panzer_general || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| parenting || http://parenting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| patwiki || http://gauss.ffii.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pdamaps || http://pdamaps.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pearpc || http://pearpc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| peize || http://peize.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| personals || http://personals.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| personaltelco || http://www.personaltelco.net/index.cgi/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| peteashdown || http://vote.peteashdown.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pg2 || http://pg2.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philadelphiawiki || http://philadelphia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| philippines || http://philippines.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| phpbb || http://phpbb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| phpwiki || http://phpwiki.sourceforge.net/phpwiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| piki || http://pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pikie || http://pikie.darktech.org/cgi/pikie?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pikifan || http://fanon.pikminwiki.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pl.cpp || http://pl.cpp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || polish
|-
| plotwiki || http://www.gaiacast.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || 404 || -
|-
| pmeg || http://www.bertilow.com/pmeg/$1.php || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| pmid || https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/$1?dopt=Abstract || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pmwiki || http://wiki.porplemontage.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| pnw || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pnwcommunity || http://pnw.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| poetrywiki || http://poetry.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| poewiki || http://poewiki.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| poker	|| http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| polaqu || http://polaqu.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| powerrangers || http://PowerRangers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ppr || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| protoscience || http://Protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| prowrestling || http://ProWrestling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| psychographic || http://Psychographic.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikia || http://pt.Linux.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pt.linuxwikicity || http://pt.Linux.wikicities.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| pt.tibia || http://pt.tibia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || portuguese
|-
| purlnet || http://purl.oclc.org/NET/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythoninfo || http://wiki.python.org/moin/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| pythonwiki || http://www.pythonwiki.de/$1 || 0 || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|-
| pywiki || http://www.voght.com/cgi-bin/pywiki?$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (p) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| pc || http://pc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| peace || http://peace.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| php || http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.$1.php || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[php:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| pokemon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| pokémon || http://pokemon.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || special char in prefix
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'q'===

Round 17. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'q', except for this 1:
* query

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[query:" or "query:" so I have to look at hits for "query" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| quitsmoking || http://quitsmoking.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| quiz || http://quiz.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (q)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| query || http://re.search.wikia.com/search.html#$1 || unsearchable || NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:55, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'r'===

Round 18. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'r', except for these 4:
* religion, religion-wiki, reviews, roguebasin

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[religion:" or "religion:" so I have to look at hits for "religion" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| radioscanning || http://radioscanning.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| raec || http://www.raec.clacso.edu.ar:8080/raec/Members/raecpedia/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| realestate || http://realestate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reallifesoap || http://rls.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| republiconline || http://RepublicOnline.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| revo || http://purl.org/NET/voko/revo/art/$1.html || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| rfc || https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| roadcycling || http://RoadCycling.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| robotbattle || http://RobotBattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rollercoastertycoon || http://rct.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| romhack || http://romhack.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| royalisme || http://Royalisme.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| rpg || http://rpg.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ru.townn-titles || http://ru.townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| runescape || http://RuneScape.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| russianworld || http://russianworld.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (r) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| religion || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| religion-wiki || http://religion-wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| reviews || http://reviews.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| roguebasin || https://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=$1 || unsearchable, 10+ known uses || operational || we have 10+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[roguebasin:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 's'===

Round 19. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 's', except for these 6:
* s, search, seeds, software, startup, students

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[search:" or "search:" so I have to look at hits for "search" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"s" has at least one use.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s23wiki || http://is-root.de/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Buy this domain. || -
|-
| sageswiki || http://sages.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sagewiki || http://sage.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| salmesykkel || http://salmesykkel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| samplitude || http://Samplitude.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sandiego || http://sandiego.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sanfranciscowiki || http://sanfrancisco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sca21 || http://sca21.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| schoolcomputing || http://SchoolComputing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| schools || http://schools.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scoop	|| http://scoop.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| scouting || http://scouting.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| scoutpedia || http://www.scoutpedia.info/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| scratchpad || http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| scriptingwiki || http://scripting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| seapig || http://www.seapig.org/$1 || 0 || Save Money on Shared or Dedicated Hosting || -
|-
| seattlewiki || http://seattle.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| seattlewireless || http://seattlewireless.net/?$1 || 0 || 404. That’s an error. || -
|-
| seldonshand || http://seldonhand.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| semweb || http://semweb.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| senseislibrary || http://senseis.xmp.net/?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgcommand || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sgwireless || http://sgwireless.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| shakti || http://cgi.algonet.se/htbin/cgiwrap/pgd/ShaktiWiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| shoppingwiki || http://shopping.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| simpsons || http://simpsons.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || No such wiki || -
|-
| sims || http://sims.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sitelibrary || http://libraries.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| skypeme || skype:$1?chat || 0 || (url not tested) || -
|-
| slashdot || http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| slektami || http://slektami.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| smarteam || http://cm.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| smikipedia || http://www.smikipedia.org/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| smw || http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| socialism || http://socialism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sockwiki || http://wiki.socklabs.com/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| solarconquest	|| http://SolarConquest.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sosdancn || http://wiki.sosdancn.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sourceforge || http://sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sourcewatch || http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| spankart || http://spankingartwiki.animeotk.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| sport	|| http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| sports || http://armchairgm.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| squeak || http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| srpstvo || http://Srpstvo.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ssb || http://www.ssbwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| stargate || http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| startrekwiki || http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| starwars || http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || fully operational || -
|-
| storypedia || http://Storypedia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| stpete || http://stpete.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| strategywiki || http://strategywiki.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| strikiwiki || http://ch.twi.tudelft.nl/~mostert/striki/teststriki.pl?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| suceavacounty || http://Suceava.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| suisse || http://suisse.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| sunrisesunset || http://sunrisesunset.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| superstar || http://superstar.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || czech
|-
| susning || http://www.susning.nu/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|-
| svgwiki || http://wiki.svg.org/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| svtwiki || http://SVT.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| swtrain || http://train.spottingworld.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (s) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| s || http://www.shoutwiki.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 1+ known uses || operational || we have 1+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[s:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| search || http://search.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| seeds || http://www.IslandSeeds.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| software || http://software.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| startup || http://startup.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|-
| students || http://students.wikia.com/wiki/$1	 || unsearchable || operational || -
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 't'===

Round 20. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 't', except for these 3:
* town-titles, townn-titles, translation

Most of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[translation:" or "translation:" so I have to look at hits for "translation" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

"town-titles" and "townn-titles" have special characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

"tvtropes" was special. I found 4 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;. However, 2 of them did not work, because tvtropes re-organized their articles; and were not fixable, because our interwiki link points to the Main section of tvtropes and they moved their article on NetHack to the VideoGame section. And then I saw that our article on tvtropes had obsolete information, so I updated that article, added references, and so on. At the end of my editing session, there were 0 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[tvtropes:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, so you can delete the interwiki link now. tvtropes certainly has a way of engaging people for longer than they planned.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| tablature || http://tablature.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| talisman || http://talismanonlinewiki.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Top Live Casino || already done, expedited deletion
|-
| tardis || http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tavi || http://tavi.sourceforge.net/$1 || 0 || An error has been encountered in accessing this page. || -
|-
| techcompare || http://TechCompare.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tejo || http://www.tejo.org/vikio/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| terrorwiki || http://www.liberalsagainstterrorism.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || How To Grow Your Small Business Into a Large Business || -
|-
| tesoltaiwan || http://www.tesol-taiwan.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || no wiki, redirects to its main page || -
|-
| thelemapedia || http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| theopedia || http://www.theopedia.com/$1 || 0 || Not found || -
|-
| theowiki || http://www.theowiki.com/index.php/$1 || 0 || ERR_CONNECTION_RESET || -
|-
| thinkwiki || http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| tianjin || http://Tianjin.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| tmbw || http://www.tmbw.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tmnet || http://www.technomanifestos.net/?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| tmwiki || http://www.EasyTopicMaps.com/?page=$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| toronto || http://toronto.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tourism || http://tourism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| trains || http://trains.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transformers || http://tfwiki.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| transhumanism || http://transhumanism.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| tricities || http://huntricitiesde.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| turismo || http://www.tejo.org/turismo/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| turriwiki || http://wiki.finfur.net/index.php/$1 || 0 || Fatal exception of type MWException || -
|-
| tvtropes || http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/$1 || 0 || operational || our interwiki link points to Main and their NetHack article is no longer in Main, so we no longer use any tvtropes:xxx interwiki links
|-
| twiki || http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| twistedwiki || http://purl.net/wiki/twisted/$1 || 0 || 404 Page not found on this site. || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (t) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| town-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| townn-titles || http://townn-titles.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || russian
|-
| translation || http://translation.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
|}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'u'===

Round 21. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'u', except for this 1:
* university

This is probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[university:" or "university:" so I have to look at hits for "university" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| uea || http://www.tejo.org/uea/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| ufology || http://ufology.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukrailways || http://ukrailways.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ukroads || http://ukroads.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| uncyclopedia || http://www.uncyclopedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || File not found (404 error) || uncyclopedia moved. I changed all 1 uses of &lt;nowiki&gt;[[uncyclopedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; to use direct https to current location.
|-
| universitywikinodewiki || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| unreal || http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| ursine || http://ursine.ca/$1 || 0 || Not Found || -
|-
| usej || http://www.tejo.org/usej/$1 || 0 || operational || esperanto
|-
| utopia || http://Utopia.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

'''Keep this for now (u)'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| university || http://universitywikinodewiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete all interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'v'===
Round 22. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'v'.

There are no exceptions.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (v) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| vancouver || http://vancouver.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| vanishedlibrary || http://VanishedLibrary.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| vegas || http://lasvegas.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| villagearts || http://www.Village-Arts.org/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| vinismo || http://vinismo.com/en/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| virtualpets || http://VirtualPets.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| virus || http://virus.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| visualworks || http://wiki.cs.uiuc.edu/VisualWorks/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| vlaamseklantenbrussel	|| http://vlaamseklantenbrussel.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || dutch
|-
| voterice || http://voterice.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|}

''' Keep nothing (v) '''

There are no interwiki entries to keep starting with lowercase 'v'.

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 16:16, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
::Still need to delete: vancouver, vanishedlibrary [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 19:54, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
:::Thought I'd gotten them with the rest - cleared out now. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 20:07, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
::::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 20:10, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}

===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'w'===

Round 23. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'w', except for these 12:
* w, why, wiki, wikia, wikibooks, wikicities, wikimedia, wikinfo, wikipedia, wikt, wiktionary, worlds

Some of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[w:" or "w:" so I have to look at hits for "w" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (w) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| w:c:academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| w:c:wowwiki || http://www.wowwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| warpedview || http://www.warpedview.com/mediawiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| warzone2100 || http://warzone2100.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| webdevwikinl || http://www.promo-it.nl/WebDevWiki/index.php?page=$1 || 0 || De website die u probeert te vinden is niet bereikbaar || dutch
|-
| webisodes || http://www.webisodes.org/$1 || 0 || HTTP Status: 404 (not found) || -
|-
| webseitzwiki || http://webseitz.fluxent.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| westport || http://Westport.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| whitewolf || http://whiteWolf.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiablog || http://blogs.wikia.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiaentertainment || http://entertainment.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiagaming || http://gaming.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiahelp || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikianswers || http://answers.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wikible || http://www.wikible.org/en/$1 || 0 || (sketchy site with a popup asking me to install a browser extension) || (expedited deletion requested) use protection if you visit this site.
|-
| wikicomedy || http://comedy.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikif1 || http://www.wikif1.org/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| wikifur || http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikihelp || http://help.wikia.com/wiki/Help:$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikihow || http://www.wikihow.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiindex || http://wikiindex.com/$1 || 0 || 504 Gateway Time-out || -
|-
| wikimac || http://mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikimon || http://wikimon.net/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikimoon || http://wikimoon.org/index.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikinews || http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiquote || http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikirps || http://www.wikirps.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || Page Not Found || -
|-
| wikiscum || http://scum.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikisource || http://wikisource.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikispecies || http://species.wikimedia.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikitravel || http://wikitravel.org/en/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiversity || http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikivoyage || http://www.wikivoyage.org/general/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wikiworld || http://WikiWorld.com/wiki/index.php/$1 || 0 || Parse error: syntax error, unexpected 'Namespace' (T_NAMESPACE), expecting identifier (T_STRING) in /var/www/vhosts/wikiworld.com/httpdocs/wiki/includes/Namespace.php on line 46 || -
|-
| windsurfing || http://windsurfing.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wlp || http://wlp.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wlug || http://www.wlug.org.nz/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| wnc || http://wnc.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| worldcitizen || http://worldcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| wowwiki || http://www.wowwiki.com/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (w) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| w || http://community.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, 6+ known uses|| operational || we have 6+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[w:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| why || http://clublet.com/c/c/why?$1 || unsearchable || (domain for sale) || -
|-
| wiki || http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| wikia || http://www.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || main page of fandom.com || -
|-
| wikibooks || http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/$1 || 3 || operational || we have 3 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikibooks:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikicities || http://www.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 1 || main page of fandom.com || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikicities:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikimedia || http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| wikinfo || http://www.wikinfo.org/index.php/$1 || 2 || wikinfo exists but rearranged site || we have 2 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikinfo:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikipedia || http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/$1 || unsearchable, many || operational || we have many &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikipedia:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wikt || http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/$1 || 1 || operational || we have 1 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wikt:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| wiktionary || http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/$1 || 3 || operational || we have 3 &lt;nowiki&gt;[[wiktionary:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|-
| worlds || http://worlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || Not a valid community || -
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 21:18, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'x', 'y', or 'z'===

Round 24. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'x', 'y', or 'z', except for these 5:
* x-files, zh.anime, zh.mac, zh.wikimac, zzz wiki

These 5 prefixes have special characters so I do not trust mediawiki search and interwiki prefix matching to work the same way.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (x), (y), and (z) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| xao || http://XAO.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| ypsieyeball || http://sknkwrks.dyndns.org:1957/writewiki/wiki.pl?$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|-
| zeldapendium || http://www.zeldapendium.de/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || german
|-
| zeldawiki || http://zeldawiki.org/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| zemirot || http://zemirotdatabase.org/view_song.php?title=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| zhmusic || http://zh.music.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || chinese
|-
| zwiki	|| http://zwiki.org/$1 || 0 || zwiki.org link broken #6 || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (x), (y), and (z) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| x-files || http://x-files.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| zh.anime || http://zh.anime.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zh.mac || http://zh.mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zh.wikimac || http://zh.mac.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| unsearchable || operational || chinese
|-
| zzz wiki || http://wiki.zzz.ee/index.php/$1 || unsearchable || ERR_CONNECTION_REFUSED || -
|}

:In regards to specifically Zeldawiki, I think that one is likely to be worth keeping because we do have at least a few Zelda-inspired monsters, possibly among other stuff (see [[garo]], which also need a presentability pass but there you go). The rest of the "delete" table can go without contest. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 16:15, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
::I am fine with keeping Zeldawiki and others at your discretion. Just make notes like the above, delete the others, mark issue resolved. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 18:03, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
::Regarding Zeldawiki, the current interwiki link (zeldawiki.org) goes to the Fandom wiki. I think it might be better to link to the independent wiki, which is at https://zeldawiki.wiki/wiki/Main_Page. From what I recall, I think it's the same wiki team, who moved away from Fandom? --[[User:ScienceBall|ScienceBall]] ([[User talk:ScienceBall|talk]]) 11:05, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
:::Correct. My idea was to maintain links to independent non-&lt;s&gt;Wikia&lt;/s&gt; Fandom™ wikis and edit or establish relevant interwiki entries accordingly while deleting the other unused ones - so far ZeldaWiki and Bulbapedia come to mind as "obvious" candidates. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:13, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

:Addressed pending a judgment on zeldapendium - it's a German wiki on ''The Legend of Zelda'' that's distinct from ZeldaWiki but still part of the NIWA (independent alliance of Nintendo wikis), so I'm trying to figure out what that's about - the rest's been dealt with. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 21:19, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
::For the purposes of Phase 1, just keep zeldapendium. If it gets deleted or changed 5 minutes after this issue is resolved that's up to not-me.
::Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:24, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

===Request for an admin to delete many interwiki entries starting with other first characters===

Round 25. This is the final round.

I would like to request that an admin delete many interwiki entries starting with other first characters except for these 2:
* Cache, Wikihack

Some of these are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[Cache:" or "Cache:" so I have to look at hits for "Cache" and there are too many of them. So keep these for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

''' Safe to delete (other first character) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| 3dgame || http://3dgame.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| AwarenessWiki || http://taoriver.net/aware/$1 || 0 || ERR_ADDRESS_UNREACHABLE || -
|-
| Legowiki || http://www.object-arts.com/wiki/html/Lego-Robotics/$1 || 0 || ERR_TIMED_OUT || -
|}

''' Keep these for now (other first character) '''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| Cache	|| http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:$1 || unsearchable || operational || -
|-
| Wikihack || http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:$1 || unsearchable, 2+ known uses || operational || we have 2+ &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Wikihack:xxx]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; links!
|}

:Addressed. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 21:21, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
:: Verified. Looks good to me. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:22, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

== "Disallow empty edit summary" abuse filter ==

I think it is generally useful to encourage users to use edit summaries, because it helps people looking at page history determine what was done and why.  We have [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]], which disallows empty edit summaries except on users' own pages.  However, this edit filter might hinder new users trying to ask questions.  I propose that it should not trigger on talk namespaces, along with the Forum namespace, because users who are just trying to ask questions often make their first edits there.  Edits on these pages are obviously discussion, and having to add "reply" in the edit summary after a section name seems redundant.

I think this could be implemented by adding a condition &lt;code&gt;&amp; !(((page_namespace % 2) == 1) | (page_namespace == 110))&lt;/code&gt; to the edit filter (though somebody else should review this for correctness).  All talk namespaces are odd-numbered, and 110 is the Forum namespace.

''This'' page, as a discussion page that is not in a talk namespace, would not be exempt after the proposed change, but it is mostly used by experienced editors.  It could still be added as a special case though (maybe using &lt;code&gt;page_title == "Community Portal"&lt;/code&gt;?).  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 04:10, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:Seconding this with mod hat off (the filter is not something I had a hand in and have no experience with editing). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I vote yes, on this or any variation of the design that Cathartes wants to do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:26, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

::I personally have thought of just turning that damn filter to warn, rather than disallow, though I can see the argument that even a warning might discourage newer users.  IMO a simpler version of what Cathartes wants to do would be to only apply the filter to places where it's needed, rather than try to carve out a list of exceptions.  Offhand, I don't think we need that filter anywhere but the main namespace and maybe places like Template and Source. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 06:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:::Enabling it only in the main namespace and Template sounds good to me.  I think using warn instead of disallow is also acceptable since I think some new/infrequent editors can't figure out why their edits are disallowed before giving up.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 00:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::Okay, I did both - set it to trigger only in main, Template, Source, and Category, and set it to warn.  If we get too many mainspace edits without summaries, we might want to put it back to disallow, but let's try the more permissive version for now. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::::I think this should work out, though if it does come to that I might consider having a disallow after enough warnings in a given span of time, if at all possible - I doubt it'll be as much of a solve as needed at that juncture but it's a line of thought worth considering imo (if it's even possible with the filter). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

==Regarding source references and hosting source code==
&lt;s&gt;Retyped from scratch because I managed to Thanos several hundred tabs...&lt;/s&gt;

So a discussion about [[User:Furey/References to source code|how to format source references]] prompted me to ponder about the current state of the wiki with regards to handling sources in general: Much of the structures set in place a decade or so back were created with the assumption that the latest stable version would be 3.4.3 for the foreseeable future, which is very evidently not the case, and the source reference templates are just one among many. While most of the current active editing base - which, it bears mentioning, is much different from that of the aforementioned era - is generally diligent about specifying versions when writing source references, it's clear that some level of overhaul is overdue, both in regard to how they are written and structured on a base and across the board with how the wiki is set up to work. With 3.7 to be released at some unknown point in the future, I think it's best we get ahead of that now, especially when we're still several versions behind on both uploading and annotating, and in general have many sorely out-of-date articles for vanilla ''NetHack'' (to say nothing of the variant workload).

Far as formatting references to source code, I think "formalizing" reference styles like &lt;nowiki&gt;{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.4.3}}{{refsrc|src/allmain.c|123|nethack=3.6.7}}&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Source:Version/folder/file]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; (not ''exactly'' those styles, but the general patterns displayed) may be a good start. In terms of specifically the source code hosted here, we also need to finish out the source listing for previous versions deal with the mixed syntax highlight problem: [[User:Paxed/MixedSyntaxHighlight|the feature]] is a small extension intended to automatically hilite source lines with GeSHi, but the feature does not seem to work on current MediaWiki software. Interestingly, [[Special:Diff/169720|as some edits I've made here and there]] seem to indicate, removing the magic word this was intended to work with makes linking to specific lines on source code articles functional. With that in mind, I feel like it might be a good idea to remove that from all the surce code articles in question, but it's absolutely worth discussing how to most constructively handle all of the above and more here, as well as perhaps on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide|the Style Guide talk page]]. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:17, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: My view, in one sentence: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.''

: Lots more here: [[User:Furey/References to source code]]

: I've been fixing markup in the Source:NetHack 3.4.3 articles. They have a lot of references to &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[foo.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; articles, and those basename articles quietly changed from 3.4.3 to 3.6.1 in December 2015, and that is completely wrong for 3.4.3 documentation.

: Each time I commit an article in Source:NetHack 3.4.3, nearly every article gets added to https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Category:Pages_with_syntax_highlighting_errors. It's as if something in the GeSHi processing just chokes on nearly every article.

: Not only does the syntax highlighting fail, but we lost line number anchors as well. I would really like those line number anchors, more than I would like syntax highlighting, if I had to choose between them.

: https://web.archive.org/web/20140403230634/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows that syntax highlighting did work in 2014. https://web.archive.org/web/20220810194631/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c shows no syntax highlighting in 2022. https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/allmain.c&amp;action=history shows the last change was in 2013. So it was something in the GeSHi processing that changed, not something in the article.

: It would be good for Paxed to look into this, very interested in their knowledge and opinion.

: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:14, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

: Edited to add: I spent more time on https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/*
: https://web.archive.org/web/20181003031605/http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/engrave.c is the latest capture with syntax coloring
: https://web.archive.org/web/20190407192043/https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:NetHack_3.4.3/src/spell.c is the earlist capture without syntax coloring
: so something changed between october 3, 2018 and april 7, 2019.
: [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 11:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

== Proposal to eliminate bare filename redirectors such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; , &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt;, and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Arch.des]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; ==
{{resolved top}}
These redirectors are leftovers from an earlier age where we had only one source version, 3.4.3. (And even then, we had more than one source version, because we had variant sources such as SLASH'EM).

These files, by their nature, must redirect to only one version of NetHack: either 3.4.3 or 3.6.1. For many callers, the redirection goes to the wrong file. Right now, I'm fixing all the callers that produce actual wrong results, changing the caller to get right results.

After that, there will be a few callers left where the redirector happens to give them the nethack version they want. I propose to change those too, so that the caller specifies the nethack version the caller wants, not leaving it to chance. Experience since the importation of 3.6.0 shows the current approach produces an epic number of incorrect references. And it will get worse the day 3.7.0 releases.

And then I propose deleting all the redirectors with names like &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Dungeon.h]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; and &lt;nowiki&gt;[[attrib.c]&lt;/nowiki&gt;.

The modern way to write a source reference is with refsrc, including a nethack=3.4.3 or nethack=3.6.7 parameter. You can also write refsrc with ref=no parameter to generate an inline link.

For now, there are some such as &lt;nowiki&gt;[[Monst.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; that I may have to punt on. But I will get as much as I can.

This is a piece of a larger discussion on [[NetHackWiki talk:Style guide#Futureproofing_and_source_references]]. I am making this small proposal standalone to get started.

Thoughts and votes? [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 21:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

:I definitely agree those should be removed from source references, but I propose that rather than be deleted, they be made into (short) articles describing what the file in question actually ''does''.  I'm not talking a full explication/annotation, just short little blurbs like "monst.c is the file that lists every monster along with common properties such as level, AC, and attacks" or "mon.c is a file that defines many monster behaviors, such as what items they will eat or what they will drop upon death".  Basically, I think this is a more achievable (and version-agnostic) form of the long-stalled annotation project.
:We could also provide links to different versions of the source files on these pages, a process that should be easy to semi-automate with a template. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 10:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

::I can undelete pages accordingly if need be, but this seems like a fine enough idea - I don't want it to be ''too'' short, though, just meaty enough that it can serve as a source-diving aid of sorts without getting too into the weeds. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 11:58, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

:: Huh. This sounds like a good idea. They would be little disambiguation articles, with links at the bottom for 3.4.3, 3.6.7, 3.7-dev, and even for variant source code. They wouldn't have line numbers or functions. And if someone writes &lt;nowiki&gt;[[src/mon.c]]&lt;/nowiki&gt; in a talk page, then the page won't get stale when a new version comes out, people who read source code can figure out that a comment from 2013 was talking about to the 3.4.3 version, especially if there is a link somewhere to a quickie list of release dates. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 12:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

This is more complicated than I thought. For example, NetHackWiki has 14 files and 15 redirects for the source file "dogmove.c". I would like to digest the current scheme before making proposals and carrying out sweeps. Interested editors are invited to read and comment on [[User:Furey/How many copies of dogmove.c?]].

Meanwhile, I withdraw this proposal. I'll come back with rewritten proposals if I can get some consensus on my "how many copies" page. I am still fixing pages that link to ''wrong'' source versions.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:15, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
{{resolved bottom}}</text>
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    <revision>
      <id>173034</id>
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        <id>4001284</id>
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      <comment>/* Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'w' */ Verified.</comment>
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&lt;div class="thumb tright"&gt;
{| class="prettytable" style="margin:0; background:#ECF4FF; border:2px solid #A8CFFF; width:300px;"
|
*[[Notable ascensions]]
*[[:Category:Tournaments|Tournaments]]
*[[Patch|Patches]]
*[[Libera|IRC]]
|
*[[Forum:Watercooler|Forum]]
*[[rec.games.roguelike.nethack|r.g.r.nethack]]
*[[Websites]]
*[[Meets]]
|}
&lt;/div&gt;
Welcome! Use this page to discuss general topics with NetHackWiki members. If you want to discuss a topic that is specifically about [[NetHack]], please consider discussing it at [[Forum:Watercooler|the forum]].  Purely technical issues (bugs, feature requests, etc.) may be reported at [[NetHackWiki:Technical issues|Technical issues]].

Another way to contact NetHackWiki is to leave comments on the talk pages of individual users.

Other NetHack communities include:
* [http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack rec.games.roguelike.nethack] - the newsgroup, see [[rgrn]]
* [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethack #nethack] and [irc://irc.libera.chat/nethackwiki #nethackwiki] on irc.libera.chat - see [[Libera]]

Archives of this page: [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive1|1]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive2|2]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive3|3]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive4|4]], [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5|5]]

Start a new section on the bottom of this page for each topic.

'''[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit&amp;section=new}} Post a new section]'''

== Identification section ==

Should pages for items include an "Identification" section?

I tend to add an explicit "Identification" section to item pages with advice for identification. However the "Identification" section I added for [[ring of conflict]] was removed, and all the relevant info was moved to "Strategy", so clearly not all of you feel the same way about this.

I think identification of items is separate from the strategy for using a particular item. A player benefits from identifying every item, even items with no strategic use, if for no other reason than to feel better about throwing them away. It also makes sense for identification to be described before strategy because a player will have to identify items before using them reliably.

Well, that's my take. Anybody else?

--[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:02, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

Actually, quick correction, I didn't add an "Identification" section to [[ring of conflict]], I merely moved identification advice from the pre-existing "Strategy" section. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 17:05, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

:I think I moved it back precisely ''because'' it just sounded like an extended strategy section more than anything. I'm not at all against the inclusion of separate sections for identification - rather, it's more that I interpret it as a section specifically for stuff like price-ID, autoidentifying, things of that nature. Informal identification CAN be and basically is part of that on paper, but with the ring of conflict, my rationale (which I'dve gladly explained had I been asked directly) was that it's also a vital part of any strategy around it, "it" being "not finding the thing and immediately dying from wear-testing it", such that it was worth noting first in that section. I'm more than willing to rewrite it more to accommodate, and I actually made a couple of edits in that direction - the larger question is more ''how'' to approach that than anything else. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 23:28, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

::Makes sense, if I add new identification sections in the future I might try considering that distinction as well --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 23:23, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

== "What links here" link availability? ==

Hi. For things like fixing [[https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Astaroth&amp;redirect=no this redirect]] so that it does follow wiki style while not creating double redirects, and for multiple other uses, it would be very nice to have readily available (preferably via a left-hand-side menu link, under Tools) the standard wiki "what links here" special page (and the rest of the special pages, for that matter). Is there some setting I need to change for this, or is this something needing correcting by admins? Thanks! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 18:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

== New NetHack tiles, can someone help with screenshots? ==

Hello.
I just created a new set (2 sets actually) of tiles based on the default and Oryx tilesets. I called them Kinghack, they are located in the Pictographic Tiles section of the Tiles page.
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Tileset
Can someone add them to the NetHack tileset screenshots (Where one can see the different tilesets in different areas of the game, wall testing, monsters, objects, etc). Or tell me how to add them to that site?
http://bilious.alt.org/~paxed/nethack/nhsshot/

Thank you.--[[User:Kingeorg|Kingeorg]] ([[User talk:Kingeorg|talk]]) 00:18, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

== GetIndie.wiki listing? ==

Would it be appropriate to submit the wiki to GetIndie.Wiki? It's a browser extension that redirects users from Fandom wikis to alternate better maintained wikis. It appears to use a manual list, and has a form for submitting suggestions. [[User:Sgeo|Sgeo]] ([[User talk:Sgeo|talk]]) 18:58, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
:I don't see why not.  It doesn't cost us anything and it might be helpful to a few new people who end up on Fandom without realizing that the community moved.  The old Fandom wiki is still high-ranking on searches: "Amulet of Yendor" on Google gives the old Fandom wiki page as the top result, for example.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 21:35, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
::I [https://github.com/KevinPayravi/indie-wiki-buddy/issues/40 submitted] a request to add NetHackWiki to the extension.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 22:52, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

== "Large edits by new user" abuse filter is harmful ==

[[Special:AbuseFilter/10]] implemented by [[User:Paxed]] currently denies all edits greater than 200 bytes in non-(talk,user talk) namespaces by new users.  This was instituted in response to some page-blanking vandalism a couple of months ago.  I think this is a bad idea.  Imagine being a new user, and you spent a good amount of time writing some content, only to have the filter deny your edit, and there's nothing you can do about it--you lose all your work!  This is an '''extremely bad''' welcome for new users.

Furthermore, it is not very useful against vandalism.  Sure, it works against one specific type, but a motivated vandal can easily make &lt;200-byte edits that still need to be reverted.  There are multiple experienced users who monitor [[Special:RecentChanges]] (and #nethackwiki on IRC) on a daily basis; they can easily revert any vandalism that happens.  Also, we hardly ever get any vandalism anyway.

I would suggest that a more effective way to deter vandalism is via a rate limit on edits from new users (e.g. 10 per hour per account).  This will prevent a vandal from making too many edits before an admin comes to block them, while still allowing practically all good-faith new users to edit unimpeded, and having an easy remedy in case it actually is triggered by a good-faith user (just wait a bit before saving).  And the probability of a rate limit being triggered scales ''inversely'' with the amount of effort involved in an edit (since it takes *time* to make a large good edit), so the amount of effort lost is less even if it is triggered.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 06:31, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:Have to agree here - I've been somewhat vocal about how much of an annoyance a few of these filters are, but I think this one in particular is an active detriment. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 14:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

::I honestly had the same thought.  I just disabled the filter for now; it might be useful in a more targeted form (e.g. disallow new users from removing &gt;5000 characters in a single edit, no limit on adding), but I don't think it's critical. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 14:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

:::Absolutely correct. Although misbehaved people present a problem in any place, a wiki has the tools for reverting evil changes easily, immediately after being discovered. The filter, as implemented by Mister Paxed, [[User:Paxed]], provokes more harm than gives help. It has NO PREVIOUS WARNING, and makes a new contributor lose his work. Including me, an experienced player of Nethack and some of its varieties, but new in the Nethack Wiki. [[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 17:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)&lt;!--was originally 14:06, 22 June--&gt;

::::It's gone now.  I can't speak for the other admins, but for my own part I have no intention of bringing it back. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] ([[User talk:Ion frigate|talk]]) 23:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

== Ascensions per version or variety in Junethack 2023 ==

This text is a comment about the results of Junethack, not a notification related to NetHack Wiki.

The Junethack competition of 2023 has finished. This is the proportion of ascensions for each of the versions or varieties played. Eight servers have participated: one of Nethack Alt Org, one of Nethack 4, three of Gnollhack, and three of Hardfought. Hardfought servers also have few other versions available, such as NetHack version 1.3d, but they have not been included in Junethack. The list is ordered by the proportion of ascensions obtained.

&lt;pre&gt;
Version or.............Ascensions...............Total games played......Per cent of ascensions
variety................of the hero..............in Junethack 2023.......per version or variety

NetHack 3.4.3...........23..............................575................................4
NotDNetHack..............8..............................211................................3.79
GnollHack................3...............................92................................3.26
DNetHack.................7..............................248................................2.82
SlashTHEM................2...............................99................................2.02
AceHack..................3..............................174................................1.72
NetHack4.................9..............................588................................1.53
NetHack 3.6.7...........51.............................3936................................1.3
NetHack Fourk............1...............................84................................1.19
NetHack 3.7.0...........25.............................3333................................0.75
XNetHack.................3..............................501................................0.6
EvilHack.................4..............................742................................0.54
Slash'EM.................1..............................221................................0.45
DynaHack.................1..............................358................................0.28
HackEM...................2..............................837................................0.24
GruntHack................1..............................470................................0.21
UnNetHack................2.............................1245................................0.16
NetHack 1.3d.............0...............................61................................0
SporkHack................0...............................77................................0
FIQHack..................0..............................196................................0
SpliceHack...............0.............................1630................................0
&lt;/pre&gt;

Average: 7 ascensions and 747 games per version or variety, less than 1 per cent ascended. On average, one ascension out of more than a hundred games, the others are not ascended. Dungeon games are amongst the most difficult, but they are also amongst the most addictive. A combination that seems to suggest a certain... 'masochism' amongst dungeon enthusiasts.

The table given above is reasonably well aligned on our screen, but maybe not so well on other screens, or printers, as it depends on the spacing and the character font used by each machine. If the automatic formatting executed by the wiki look gibberish, as I am afraid that it look, please look at the source by activating 'Edit'.

The table shows only the proportion of ascensions in Junethack 2023, not in other competitions, and not in the total number of games played throughout the years. It is also known in Statistical Science that samples with small numbers tend to be less reliable than samples with big numbers, therefore the table should not be taken as an absolute indication of play difficulty, especially for versions or varieties in which the number of games played, or of ascensions, has been small.

Let alone should the table be seen as indication of play 'enjoyability', a very subjective perception that varies greatly from an individual player to another. The style of a player may be rapid, playing our dungeon game almost as he would play a 'point and shoot' arcade game. The style of another player may be slow, playing almost as he would play a classic game of Chess, thinking every action and considering possibilities at every few turns. Or at every turn, in particularly difficult situations.

Turn-based dungeon games are unique in accommodating to both kinds of players, rapid and slow.
One is the 'action' player who goes for muscular Barbarians attacking in melée, at close quarters. The other is the reflexive player who prefers brainy Wizards casting magical spells. In between we have Walkyrie, Ranger, Knight, Samurai, Monk, and the other rôles. Every player has some choice for him.

Of 1630 games played in SpliceHack, not even one has been ascended. FIQHack, SporkHack and NetHack version 1.3d have not been ascended either, but they have been played less than 200 times each (196, 77 and 61 times), not 1630 times. At the opposite extreme we have NetHack version 3.4.3 heading the ranking with NotDNetHack and GnollHack, each with an impressive ascension rate of between three and four per cent. Four per cent exactly, in the case of NetHack version 3.4.3.

Some other factors may account for such disparities in results, from four per cent to virtually zero ascensions. NetHack version 3.4.3 was for many years the only official version available, meaning that plenty of detail in game mechanics is known to a vast number of players. Once the Dev Team decided to take action and release NetHack versions 3.6.x (NetHack version 3.5 never was official), a number of dungeon devotees started to migrate to them, but version 3.4.3 is still very well known.

However, that explanation does not account for NotDNetHack, which is not so well known. Let alone for GnollHack, which is, besides, a recent arrival on the field and known only to a select minority of dungeon enthusiasts. GnollHack can be played off-line in classic or modern mode (permanent death or not), casual or serious commit (preserving older sessions or not), with seven levels of difficulty (damage inflicted to the hero or by the hero to monsters), but in Junethack it is assumed that all the 92 GnollHack participating games have been played in standard configuration. Then, it is difficult to think of what has made GnollHack so successful in the number of ascensions. I have myself played GnollHack a few times and I am playing it at present. It is interesting in the unique features that do not exist in any other variety, but it is not 'excessively' easy. My hero has died a few times already, and in the others I have made him exit the dungeon from first depth, with the remaining pets beside.

It may be that the exclusive features of GnollHack (including even music and speech sounds with the recorded voices of actors when playing off-line) make GnollHack singularly attractive, therefore its players pay more attention and make fewer mistakes. However, that is only a hypothesis. The true cause may be a different one, yet to be discovered.

Sources:

https://junethack.net/activity

https://junethack.net/post_tournament_statistics

A more readable presentation of the statistical table given above can be read at the GnollHack Forum:

https://community.soundmindgames.com/threads/ascensions-per-version-or-variety-in-junethack-2023.75/#post-366

[[User:Cssdixieland|Cssdixieland]] ([[User talk:Cssdixieland|talk]]) 02:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

== Can I edit Template:Languages and Template:Languages/Lang ? ==

I want to use the new LinklessExists template in Languages/Lang. I don't anticipate changing Template:Languages but asking for that file too just in case.

Benefit: eliminates about 1400 redlinks from https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:WantedPages (out of about 5600 total).

Risk: might break the languages box if I do wrong. However, I'm good at rolling back, if needed.

[[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 02:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:Do it!  If anything is broken, you can always revert.  You might also be able to test it in preview before you break anything by using the template in itself in a &lt;nowiki&gt;&lt;noinclude&gt;&lt;/noinclude&gt;&lt;/nowiki&gt; section.  After you edit the template, go to a few pages that use it and purge the cache (append ?action=purge to the URL) to force the page to be immediately regenerated with the updated template, and check that it's not broken.  [[User:Cathartes|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes|talk]]) 02:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::Okay great! Gonna clear my plate and do this in about a day. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 03:35, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

::First attempt failed. The language box came up blank. Reverted after six minutes. Gonna study harder and try again on another day. (Also I am timing these attempts when there are no active translator editors working.) [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 16:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

==Interwiki entry requests==
Grouping all interwiki entry-related requests here for user and admin convenience.

To give further context: below is a series of interwiki links [[NetHackWiki:Community Portal/Archive5#Wikia Links|that were slated to be dealt with]] after the move to MediaWiki, but it fell to the wayside for more than a decade before another user decided to draw attention to the matter. Below is a series of lists meant to expedite the process and finish what was meant to be done back in 2011.

--[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 12:26, 24 June 2024 (UTC) [Original Message: 06:53, 21 June 2024 (UTC)]

{{resolved top}}
===Request for an admin to delete most interwiki entries starting with lowercase 'a'===
https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Interwiki

I recently found 3 links in [[NetHackWiki:policy]] pointing to an ad farm for Vietnamese casinos and sports gambling. They were interwiki links, and the domain had transferred to a cybersquatter.

We have 581 interwiki entries. The table has been dormant since the move from Wikia (look at the log). We can safely delete a large number of these, preventing future problems.

Round 1. I would like to request that an admin delete all interwiki entries starting with 'a', except for these 6:
* a-levels, annotation, answers, anthropology, apple, architecture

These 6 are probably not used, but https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Special:Search does not let me search for "[[apple:" or "apple:" so I have to look at hits for "apple" and there are too many of them. So punt those for now.

Q: what if we delete an entry someone is using?

A: the link will show up in https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:WantedPages&amp;limit=5000&amp;offset=0 . Just look for Furey:xyzzy and see how it got into the table. Basically, an interwiki reference without a table entry becomes a redlink and goes into WantedPages.

'''Safe to delete'''

{|class="wikitable mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"
|+ 
! Prefix
! URL
! Uses
! Site status
! Comments
|-
| abbenormal || http://www.ourpla.net/cgi-bin/pikie.cgi?$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| abitur || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| abiwiki || http://abi_wiki.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| absurdopedia || http://absurdopedia.net/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || russian
|-
| academicjobs || http://academicjobs.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acadwiki || http://xarch.tu-graz.ac.at/autocad/wiki/$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| accountingwiki || http://accounting.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| acronym || http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&amp;Acronym=$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activeworlds || http://activeworlds.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| activism || http://activism.wikia.com/wiki/$1	|| 0 || operational || -
|-
| advogato || http://www.advogato.org/$1 || 0 || redirects to an archive.org capture from 2017 || -
|-
| agohwiki || http://agoh.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || Not a valid community || -
|-
| aiwiki || http://www.ifi.unizh.ch/ailab/aiwiki/aiw.cgi?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| alaska || http://Alaska.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| alife	|| http://news.alife.org/wiki/index.php?$1 || 0 || DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN || -
|-
| altereco || http://altereco.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || "Not a valid community" || -
|-
| althistory || http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/$1 || 0 || operational || -
|-
| altscience ||